Alison Pugh

Like they...

Some of them were open to that and some of them just saw that coming.

Yeah, I try and shut my own, like turn down the volume on my own issues or whatever and really just try and hear what they're saying.

I'm trying to think about like, what was it that let me say that's like a loss of innocence to that woman who broke her leg in horseback riding?

And for me, that was like trying to rephrase

the statement that, you know, the story that she was trying to, she was telling me a story, but under the story, there was an emotional message.

And I was trying to put that emotional message into words.

So I am deeply listening to the kind of facts of the case, but I'm also kind of trying to hear how she feels about the facts of the case.

And then I'm trying to rephrase it.

or maybe even find an image or a metaphor that captures it or something like that.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And that epiphany is,

It's like a release valve.

It has this relief that people feel and convey.

It's the power of naming what is unnamed.

And that can be unnamed to you or unnamed to other people because you don't feel like it's safe.

Like by naming it, you're saying to the other person, it's safe to say this in front of me.

So sometimes there's an epiphany like, I didn't even realize.

And sometimes there's an epiphany like, oh, I can say this out loud.