Alistair Campbell

And there are changes that you can point to, but do people feel that their lives are being transformed by a change of government?

Certainly not yet.

And then added to it, this is the thing that kind of pains me the most,

is that the thing that made the last lot so dysfunctional was this sense... You've seen this in the way it's operating now.

You just saw some sort of pretty second-rate people projecting themselves as though they were the centre of the universe.

And I think what you... The reason why I think Keir Starmer is likely to be feeling incredibly frustrated right now is there he is trying to sort of, you know, get a new government in place, get the government going.

And we're already talking about who's next.

Now, he either actually lays down, he says, you can do what you want, I'm not going.

And then he's going to force the hand of people like Wes Treating if they are sort of pushing to get him out because Andy Burnham is not going to be there to do it for him now.

But I think right now, I'm pretty down about the way the government has developed and I'm pretty down about the way the public is seeing it.

And that's got to be fixed because the Tories are not going to win this election.

The Tories are not going to win the next election.

And therefore, the choice that the country is facing is do you want a Labour or a Labour-led government or do you want Nigel Farage in Downing Street?

Now, some people are still saying yes to the latter.

But I think there is a real desire for that not to happen.

And the only way it's going to be stopped is for Labour to get this out together.

Okay, well, end of this episode.

We're going to talk about Minnesota.

We're going to talk about Suella Braverman and her defection to reform.

Exactly.