Alistair Campbell

Before we get into this, you're sort of describing Andy Burden, though, as though we're talking about Nelson Mandela or Abraham Lincoln.

Or Matt Hancock.

Exactly.

Not that bad.

So I imagine that a lot of our British listeners will know what's been going on with Starmer and Burnham.

Some of our international listeners may not.

Andy Burnham, former cabinet minister under the last Labour government, Manchester mayor, pretty popular figure up there, but has made no secret of his desire to get back into parliament.

So he put his name forward for the long list of candidates for a by-election that's just come up in Manchester.

And the national executive, the ruling national executive, had a committee hearing over the weekend and voted by eight to one for him not to be allowed to put his name forward.

They say he should stay and deliver on his mandate for four years as Manchester Bear.

This is a tricky one for me.

I think they're both wrong.

I think they've both been in the wrong.

No, I'll tell you why.

Because, look, part of the job of political leadership is to have and make sure you have good relations with all the people who might become a threat.

And I'm not sure, look, I know Andy Burnham well, and I talked to him from time to time.

I think he has felt that the number 10 operation has sort of been suspicious of him, pushed him away, kept him at a distance.

He's a Labour politician, okay?

And he's the mayor of Manchester, and he's been elected to serve several years as mayor of Manchester.

And in a way, he's signalled too overtly, in my view,