Amanda Gillies

That was 2021.

Today, Jacinda Ardern is gone, Labour is no longer in power and the gangs, well, chances are they won't get their hands on any more government money because no, National doesn't trust them.

Hi, I'm Amanda Gillies, and today on The Detail, I talk to that National MP who is taking aim at Kiwi gangs.

Rima Nakhle has been blunt.

She doesn't want a cent of taxpayers' money to prop up any group connected to criminal networks.

But critics argue it's less political progress, more political grandstanding.

We'll hear why later in the podcast, but first, Rima and her new anti-gang mission.

What is your issue with it?

Is it because it is gang members or you feel like they've already got victims and it's re-victimising people?

What makes you so angry about this?

Back in 2021, when the Labour government funded the Hawke's Bay programme, Mark Mitchell, who was then the opposition police spokesman, said the money wasn't actually helping anyone.

It was simply funding gangs.

On the flip side, Rima, there are gang members who want to get to the other side, who need help, who want to sort of rise again or rebuild.

Is this not of detriment to them?

I was listening to an interview from Harry Tam from the mongrel mob back in the day, and he was saying, we are helping them, we are turning their lives around.

Fair point.

The one in Hawke's Bay, that programme, did it have any success?

It's interesting, when I was researching this, Rima, I actually heard an interview with former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, and she said that the Hawke's Bay programme was actually based on something the National Party had actually come up with.

I know a lot of people will back this, and you were sort of saying that sort of not a dollar of taxpayer money should go to gangs, but Rima, sort of how do you define a gang-linked organisation in practice, so to speak?

And just so we're clear, Rima, the current National Party, the coalition government, you guys have not given any money to any gangs since you guys got into power nearly three years ago.