Ambassador Robert Blackwill

And far past when it should have been obvious that China had a different set of objectives in mind, which was essentially to replace the United States as the primary power in the Indo-Pacific.

And it wasn't until the late 2010s, after the pivot to Asia had failed, that finally a consensus

Right.

But in Europe, the danger is, and it's an analog to what you raised with respect to Taiwan, who believes that Donald Trump will abide by Article 5, that is to say, an attack on one is an attack on all, essentially, if little green men go into a Baltic state.

emerged that China no longer could be considered a candidate for liberal evolution.

And indeed, Bob Gates makes an argument

former distinguished Secretary of Defense, and a wise man, makes the argument that China is the most dangerous rival in American history and is likely to remain so for years ahead.

Oh, right.

Right.

And so can Putin, especially if he can't conquer Ukraine, will he test the proposition, too, about Trump?

So it was a combination of wishful thinking, but also not wanting to spend the money on the defense side

So a spark there could lead to the collapse of NATO, for example.

which would be consistent with regarding them as this dangerous rival.

And we still haven't spent that money up until this day.

if the United States were not willing to abide by Article 5, or even worse, somehow endorsed the little green men from Russia, the paramilitaries, into the Baltic states.

And President Trump, after his interactions with President Putin,

often seems to accept President Putin's explanation of what is happening in the world.

So there's a point.

But the most dangerous, I'll just say this to make it clear, the most dangerous place on earth as that spark you mentioned for the rest of the Trump term is Taiwan.

That's because of the reasons we said, I think, is the most dangerous.