Andrea Dunlop

He's usually not here.

We don't see him barely at all.

It's all Ben, the mom.

And then they interview the dad.

And it's exactly what you say.

They're like, oh, well, I, you know, I am also involved.

And I also take them to their appointments.

And I think, again, this is like a gendered thing that plays into this abuse is just the idea that it's something that's very human and that I really empathize with.

But I think there's also this idea of I let this happen under my roof.

And I think there's a lot of guilt and there's also a lot of shame when you feel like someone has fooled you.

Because if you feel like your spouse has also completely manipulated and fooled you, people don't love to admit that they bought into something wrong.

That wasn't real.

That's a very bad feeling.

That's right.

And oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes, munchausen by proxy behavior, which is when you are abusing someone else to get your needs met, so either a child or a vulnerable adult, is preceded by munchausen behavior, which is when people are doing it to themselves.

So a lot of cases that we look at.

The mother, before they ever had actual children, had, as you said, fake pregnancies, fake miscarriages, or at least dubious ones.

And then oftentimes a long history of their own medical oddities, crises that were not real.

And that was the case in my family.

My sister had a fake twin pregnancy that she dramatically lost.