Andrew Marantz

And I think a lot of Democrats underestimated how powerfully affecting that is for people. I mean, in the piece, I kind of refer to this as parasocial media. It's not social media anymore. in the sense of an algorithmic feed. It's parasocial in the sense that, I mean, that word means basically a kind of imagined one-way friendship that the listener has with the host.

So if you're listening to Theo Vaughn or Joe Rogan for tens or dozens or hundreds of hours while you're at the gym or while you're folding laundry or whatever, you'd feel like you know them. I mean, I feel like I know them. And so then when they tell you something or they start a line of questioning,

So if you're listening to Theo Vaughn or Joe Rogan for tens or dozens or hundreds of hours while you're at the gym or while you're folding laundry or whatever, you'd feel like you know them. I mean, I feel like I know them. And so then when they tell you something or they start a line of questioning,

So if you're listening to Theo Vaughn or Joe Rogan for tens or dozens or hundreds of hours while you're at the gym or while you're folding laundry or whatever, you'd feel like you know them. I mean, I feel like I know them. And so then when they tell you something or they start a line of questioning,

you have a certain amount of trust and a certain amount of generosity, like, oh, let's see where he's going with this. And that's a very, very, very powerful tool in culture and in politics. And I think for a long time, there's been this assumption that, oh, politics is one thing and Spotify is another. And they're just not separate things at all. And I feel like

you have a certain amount of trust and a certain amount of generosity, like, oh, let's see where he's going with this. And that's a very, very, very powerful tool in culture and in politics. And I think for a long time, there's been this assumption that, oh, politics is one thing and Spotify is another. And they're just not separate things at all. And I feel like

you have a certain amount of trust and a certain amount of generosity, like, oh, let's see where he's going with this. And that's a very, very, very powerful tool in culture and in politics. And I think for a long time, there's been this assumption that, oh, politics is one thing and Spotify is another. And they're just not separate things at all. And I feel like

It took way too long for political consultants to learn that about social media. I feel like they've now learned it about social media, but they're a little behind the ball on parasocial media.

It took way too long for political consultants to learn that about social media. I feel like they've now learned it about social media, but they're a little behind the ball on parasocial media.

It took way too long for political consultants to learn that about social media. I feel like they've now learned it about social media, but they're a little behind the ball on parasocial media.

Yeah, there's definitely money going into the right wing podcast sphere, some of it from political donors and some of it just, you know, Joe Rogan got a massive deal from Spotify just because he was very popular. And part of what, you know, when Hassan Piker says, you know, the Democrats can't podcast their way out of this.

Yeah, there's definitely money going into the right wing podcast sphere, some of it from political donors and some of it just, you know, Joe Rogan got a massive deal from Spotify just because he was very popular. And part of what, you know, when Hassan Piker says, you know, the Democrats can't podcast their way out of this.

Yeah, there's definitely money going into the right wing podcast sphere, some of it from political donors and some of it just, you know, Joe Rogan got a massive deal from Spotify just because he was very popular. And part of what, you know, when Hassan Piker says, you know, the Democrats can't podcast their way out of this.

I think part of what he means is you can't just have a kind of astroturf industry. solution where you throw a bunch of money at sort of randomly selected people whose views you like, and that'll do it, right?

I think part of what he means is you can't just have a kind of astroturf industry. solution where you throw a bunch of money at sort of randomly selected people whose views you like, and that'll do it, right?

I think part of what he means is you can't just have a kind of astroturf industry. solution where you throw a bunch of money at sort of randomly selected people whose views you like, and that'll do it, right?

So to kind of play out that argument, the way that argument would go is, okay, let's say some left of center donor decided to give hundreds of millions of dollars to whichever TikTok star was kind of supporting the Democrats. Would that boost awareness of the Democrats? Probably. But what it wouldn't do is have the authentic feeling of an organic, trusted, authentic, weird voice, right?

So to kind of play out that argument, the way that argument would go is, okay, let's say some left of center donor decided to give hundreds of millions of dollars to whichever TikTok star was kind of supporting the Democrats. Would that boost awareness of the Democrats? Probably. But what it wouldn't do is have the authentic feeling of an organic, trusted, authentic, weird voice, right?

So to kind of play out that argument, the way that argument would go is, okay, let's say some left of center donor decided to give hundreds of millions of dollars to whichever TikTok star was kind of supporting the Democrats. Would that boost awareness of the Democrats? Probably. But what it wouldn't do is have the authentic feeling of an organic, trusted, authentic, weird voice, right?

So you were saying before people who've known parasocially someone like Theo Vaughn or Joe Rogan for years, they have a kind of trust in them. And a lot of what that trust comes from is not just – putting in the parasocial hours, although that's important, but also, frankly, how weird and idiosyncratic these people's interests are.