Andrew Morantz
Appearances
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Well, and this is the line he's constantly walking in politics of all kinds, right? He's saying Trump is a monster. You can't vote for him. But he's not then saying, here's why Kamala Harris is so great and you really should vote for her. He's basically saying she's the lesser of two evils, but she's really terrible on Gaza. She's really terrible on this other stuff.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
I mean, I was at the DNC in Chicago, and Hasan Piker was this sort of, you know, celebrated, invited guest. The DNC gave him this really prime real estate, and then he said a few too many really edgy things about Gaza. They're kicking us out.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
So he's constantly doing this dance, right? Trying to be a critical ally, but not too allied. Trying to be edgy on Twitch without getting kicked off Twitch. He was recently suspended for 24 hours because he talked about maybe killing Rick Scott, a senator. So it's this constant tightrope act, which, I mean, honestly makes it more exciting to watch.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Totally. I mean, this is his audience goes way back with him. This is where the parasocial thing really comes into play. I mean, you know, not to break the fourth wall too much, but people have a parasocial relationship with you. They listen to you a lot. People have parasocial relationships with Sarah Koenig from listening to her host Serial for 12 hours.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
But like this guy is on audio and video constantly. all the time with comments floating up the side of his screen that he reads and responds to constantly. So however parasocial people feel about you or Ezra Klein or Sarah Koenig, it's like times a thousand on steroids all the time. This is part of the appeal, right? I went to a gym with him in Encino.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
You walk into the gym, there's Joe Rogan interviewing Elon Musk on the TV above you. But because he's kind of doing this bro-coded thing, he's not like the kind of caricature of the pearl-clutching, you know, progressive where he has to run away because he's like surrounded by Trumpy guys. He can hang. And the ability to hang is the currency of the realm. Like if you can hang...
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
then you're in and people kind of develop a relationship with you. And then eventually, if you go, actually, I think we should have universal health care and treat trans people well and not do mass deportations, then maybe they'll listen to you.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
And in terms of who they are, I mean, I think part of what's interesting about it, and this goes for Rogan and Theo Vaughn and a bunch of guys on the right as well, is that the audience is constantly changing and moldable and impressionable. One thing that this piece really reinforced for me is Americans don't just sort of have set politics. Nobody does. It's always shifting.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
People are always open to persuasion or just kind of shifting their mind on things. That's what Rogan did. That's what a lot of his audience did. So what a lot of Hasan Piker's job is I think is taking people who are impressionable and kind of molding them in his direction rather than letting them just sort of fall into the open internet where they might, you know, get red pilled.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Yeah, he doesn't like it. And his main objection to it is, well, partly he doesn't like it because, you know, it's not cool to be like, oh, please pick me. I would love to be the Joe Rogan of the left, you know. But also his objection to it is the Democrats want to make this about messaging instead of policy.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
So, you know, the Democrats want to just say, oh, if we just, you know, have more podcasts and, you know, put more Tic Tac stars on our, you know, campaign ads, you know, that'll solve it. And for someone like Piker, who is a really dedicated, like socialist, he wants them to do more universal programmings. You know, he wants them to go in a Bernie direction instead of a Kamala direction.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
And so he thinks it's kind of like a shortcut to just do the messaging and not change the policy.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Yeah, there's people all over. And, you know, just like Joe Rogan used to be on the left, Hasan Piker used to be a big Rogan fan. I mean, he told me about the time he met Joe Rogan, like in this kind of rapturous way. And, you know, he also Theo Vaughn, I would say, is kind of reached the number two spot in the Rogan sphere. Yeah.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Hasan Piker was on Theo Vaughn's show like a week and a half ago or something. I mean, so there's a huge amount of overlap.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Kind of. Yeah. Hopefully without calling each other queer or whatever. I think there is some of that, but actually, in a way, it's less structured than that. Right. The kind of classic Buckley Vidal debate where you're brought in to do like a point counterpoint on CBS News. Yeah, that's kind of given way to more just kind of like organic relationships.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
So like the gym bros that I was talking about, they were streamers also. And Hassan will go on their streams and talk about politics. But it's not in a structured like, OK, what do we think about entitlement reform? What do we think about charter schools? Like it's much more like. I don't know, dude, like, don't you think this is bullshit? You really think they're going to do what they say?
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Yeah, they are doing something. So I think the Gavin Newsom show is not the answer. The thing that struck me about the Gavin Newsom show, which he started like while I was reporting this, is not even again the content. It's the vibe. It's like he talks kind of like a McKinsey consultant, like not not like a person. And whereas Tim Walz, I think, talks like a person.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
So, you know, you can talk about policy all day long. And I think that we should talk about policy all day long. And I and I agree with the piker critique that policy maybe matters more than messaging in many cases.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
But I think when you have someone like Tim Walls, who doesn't always put words in the right order and doesn't always speak in complete paragraphs, that guy would do great on a three hour podcast. And so to me, the whole Monday Morning Quarterback question is not why didn't Kamala go on Rogan is why didn't Tim Walls go on Joe Rogan?
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Like, that's the whole point of having that guy on your campaign, it seems to me. So I do think they're going to keep trying stuff and I think they're going to see kind of by market testing it what's working. People are clearly trying to get in position and I don't think they will make the same exact mistakes again.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
The question is, are they only fighting the last war or are they going to figure out whatever the parasocial media of 2028 is going to be?
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
There's kind of this folk theory of politics, which I think actually has some truth to it, that, like, every election has its own dominant medium. And, you know, 1960 was the TV election.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
So there was kind of this Monday morning quarterback consensus that 2024 was the livestream election or the long-form podcast election. And there was kind of this easy narrative, which was, if only there were a Rogan of the left, the Democrats would have pulled it out. And so I sort of wanted to examine how true that was.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Definitely. I mean, especially because these were pretty easy interviews, right? I mean, he wasn't really being grilled.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
What they did for those audiences is just expose them to a kind of humanized version of Trump. You've heard about the supervillain, you know, glowering from the Fulton County Jail or whatever. Well, here's the version of Trump that just seems like kind of a chill, approachable dude. And, you know, maybe he's not as bad as all that.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Yeah. So, Hasan Piker is really the only major prominent leftist on Twitch, at least the only one who talks about politics all day.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
So a lot of the sort of, you know, speculation about could there be a Rogan of the left, you know, a lot of that was focused on him. He's, have to just say it outright, very, very handsome, tall, drink of water. He's, you know, that's a big part of the brand. Can I say something? I'm feeling objectified.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
oh yeah um he does sort of fitness influencer stuff he's always going to the gym and you know sending around you know thirst trap photos this guy this week has been a mess.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
He, you know, plays video games. He does sort of, you know, traditionally guy coded stuff. But then he also like will like wear a pearl necklace and nail polish and, you know, hang out with his gay friends. So he's doing his own thing. But really, when he sits down to start streaming, he's basically talking about politics from a very sort of progressive socialist perspective all day long.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
He has four monitors, like a bank of monitors, like he's like a day trader or something. One is just for comments. One is just for his discord. One is his main screen. And when he's locked in, he's just locked in. Like he, you know, goes to the bathroom for 60 seconds and comes back and keeps going. He's like in a flow state for eight to 10 hours a day.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
When I showed up at his house, you know, we had arranged over text, like, I'll come to your house and I'll hang out with you. This is on a Sunday where he's talking about Syria for hours and hours and hours.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
He had like 35,000 people live in his audience. That's like better than a lot of cable networks, especially for, you know, the coveted youth demographic. And then I come back the next day and that happens to be the day that they caught Luigi Mangione. So that was a banger of a stream.
Today, Explained
The “Joe Rogan of the left”
Then I came back the next day and his guests were Lena Kahn, the FTC chair, followed by Ta-Nehisi Coates, the famous writer, followed by Stavros Halkias, the famous comedian. Back to back to back. This is like Gen Z Tonight Show kind of thing.