Andrew Peach

to come together to try and work through these issues.

Now, the controversial thing, Andrew, with the whole setup is the European Court of Human Rights, which sits in Strasbourg, right on the border between Germany and France as a symbol of reconciliation.

Its judgments have become increasingly contested in recent years, particularly around migration, as some of the European nations feel they're struggling to get the balance right between the rights of individuals, but also their right to manage their borders.

And people listening in European countries will know there's an awful lot of talk among politicians at the moment about the European Convention on Human Rights and whether it needs to be changed.

This started maybe five or six years ago, and there have been a couple of key moments along the way.

Listeners will remember we've had the row over sending asylum seekers to Rwanda and the UK.

The ECHR in Strasbourg blocked that temporarily, and then the scheme never happened because of the British general election.

More recently, in May, nine EU nations led by Italy and Denmark effectively signed an open letter to the courts and to the institutions in Strasbourg saying we need reform because we feel that the way the laws, the rights have been interpreted in the moment are standing in the way of us deporting criminals.

They're standing in the way of common sense.

And that's eroding confidence in politics and the law.

The month after that, the UK effectively waded in, sending a minister to Strasbourg to deliver a speech saying you must evolve, otherwise this entire project could potentially one day die.

So these messages have been sent very, very strongly to Strasbourg.

So last week I went to see Alan Berset.

He's the head of the Council of Europe, effectively the political guardian of these human rights laws in Strasbourg.

And he told me that countries shouldn't abandon this landmark agreement.

I am ready, absolutely ready and really open to engage in all political discussions and let us engage on migration issues and to see what we need to address and maybe to change.

We have two major parties in the UK, the Conservatives and Reform, who say that they think the best thing to do is to pull out of the European Convention.

To achieve what?

They say they can take control back.

The opposite is true.