Andrew Revkin

drove us into that war.

The Times sucked right into that and helped perpetuate it.

I think we're in a bit of a narrative, we, the media, my friends at the Times and others are on a train ride on climate change, depicting it in a certain way that

Really, I saw problems with how they handled the Joe Manchin issue in America, the West Virginia senator.

They really kind of piled on and zoomed in on his investments.

which is really important to do, but they never pulled back and said, by the way, he's a rare species.

He's a Democrat in West Virginia, which is a seat that would be otherwise occupied by a Republican.

There'd be no talk of a climate deal or any of that stuff without him.

But once you're starting to kind of frame a story in a certain way, you carry it along.

And as you said, sometimes it breaks and a new norm arrives, but the climate train is still kind of rushing forward and missing...

the opportunity to cut it into its pieces and say, well, what's really wrong with Florida?

And it's for me, when you ask you about how I handle the slings and arrows and stuff, it's partially because I'm past worrying about it too much.

I mean, it was pretty intense.

2009 Rush Limbaugh suggested I kill myself on his radio show.

It's a really great time.

What was that about?

I had, actually, this was a meeting in Washington in 2009 on population at the Wilson Center.

I couldn't be there, so actually, this is pre-COVID, but I was Zooming in or something, like Skyping in, and I was talking about, in a playful way, I said, well, if you really wanna worry about carbon, this was during the debate over carbon tax model for a bill in America,

We should probably have a carbon tax for kids because a bigger family in America is a big source of more emissions.

And it was kind of a playful thought bubble.