Andy Darroch

Exactly.

So this is something that's not unique to private credit, right?

So property funds, like if I've got a fund full of shopping centres and someone wants 10% of their money back, well, I may not have that in cash.

And like you say, I can sell a Commonwealth Bank share in two seconds flat.

takes longer to sell a shopping center and so private credit is direct lending right so a lot of these funds will go out direct to businesses and lend directly to them and you can't just buy or sell you know a loan for bob's fish and chip shop the same way that you can other assets and so

It's always written in the fine print and no one minds the fine print until they mind.

And then they mind a lot that generally these kinds of funds cannot tolerate more than 5% of investors, you know, requesting their cash at any one point in time.

And so with a lot of these things, if it's a psychology type thing, you see, you know, other people going to redeem and it kind of fuels that.

other redemptions.

And so we have seen quite a few funds in the US term, what's called gating or locking, or I suppose another term would be freezing their funds where they say, look, you know, your money's still here.

It's just, we can't cash it out right now because again, it's tied to a loan and that loan has terms.

And again, this, we saw a

Last year, an Australian fund froze redemptions.

And again, but it's really quite prominent in the US where you're seeing all of the big names.

So Blueout, Ares, Apollo, Blackstone, BlackRock via their acquisition of HBS.

They're all basically experiencing the same problems.

And I suppose this is most pronounced where...

if you're a big institutional investor, so sovereign wealth fund, big super fund or something like that, it's quite unlikely that you desperately need your money.

But this is where these kinds of investments aren't as well suited to individual mom and dads because they may need that money and they may not have the ability to ride it out for five years, two years, six years, one year, however long it takes for these loans to roll off.

And so this is where you're seeing, you know,