Anita Anand

So, I mean, we should talk about, we've talked a little bit about the cocaine value, if we measure everything in cocaine value, which we don't on this podcast.

I know I'm making us sound a lot cooler than we are.

You sound like you expect your life.

Much more peppy than I actually deserve to be.

But we're talking about an enormous markup of roughly sort of 60,000%.

Because, Giles, when you buy them from the Islanders, I guess, how much were people spending on it and how much were they selling it in the streets of London?

First of all, I don't think it helped with plague at all.

It was just kind of like a belief.

If you get plague, go see a doctor.

Can I just say it's a public health announcement?

Yeah, I mean, describing it as a Cold War, the Iceman, if you like, the Iceman from the Dutch side.

I know you talked about him in the last episode, Willie, but Jan Pietersen Keun.

To use the parlance that we do sometimes use on this podcast, he was an asshole.

I mean, he's sort of like a Calvinist, so deeply religious and couches everything he says in sort of, you know, God has given unto us, the Dutch, this bounty.

Couldn't possibly comment.

But, you know, so he made a big show of like, you know, don't drink, don't womanize, don't swear.

But, you know, this is the same man who had a 12-year-old girl flogged to death in Batavia.

And he's a monster.

What more do we need to know about this man?

Just remind us, Giles, about, you know, the personality of the guy who basically did for the Dutch.