Anita Arnand

That's the question.

Is he a racist?

But he does emancipate any enslaved people who join the cause.

And he does do that.

From 1816 onwards, he does do that.

But you're right.

He doesn't dismantle the situation.

It isn't.

But he is quite a cast iron shit to a lot of people.

I mean, remember, he hands Miranda over, who is his number two and his brother in arms.

And then hands him over.

He also, you know, betrays Santander, his actual, you know, brothers in the revolution.

He also, you know, throws him out and alienates him.

They were meant to have this shared vision.

No, it's not a question of coming over to your position.

I think you're completely in my position, which is it is a complicated story that you can start off from a position of idealism.

And you think he started off completely venal from the start.

I'm not sure about that.

Or counterfactual.

Okay, so I think John Lynch might be the one and forgive me, John Lynch, if this wasn't you, but it is one historian I respect who says, actually, you know what, there are quieter ways to live a life.