Anne Applebaum

They have this permanent now campaign of hitting Russian oil and gas infrastructure all the time.

And this is, when they describe it to me, they say, this is the real sanctions.

The sanctions that the U.S.

and Europe do are now full of holes.

The U.S.

isn't really enforcing them anymore.

It's too easy for everybody else to buy oil and gas from Russia, and so we're going to make it more difficult.

And that's now really important and very underreported for reasons that I don't really understand, but a very underreported part of how Ukraine is fighting as well.

So they understand that killing people won't win the war.

but maybe doing enough damage to infrastructure could.

And their theory of victory now involves that.

You know, we do enough damage that they at least have to stop fighting.

And that's, you know, but you're right.

I mean, killing a million people, so what?

I lived in London.

I lived in Poland.

I live in Poland, actually.

I spent about half my time in Poland.

I live in Warsaw, and then we have a house in northwest Poland as well in the country.

We renovated, old house.