Anne-Marie Baldonado

You know, a lot has come out about how children and women, young women get treated on sets. Do you think the way children are treated on film sets has changed since when you started out?

She doesn't even remember what she's done, but both she and her boyfriend, played by Papa Esiadu, are both hurt and bandaged up. He's had enough and wants to break up. What did I do last night?

Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more. My guest today is the actor and producer Saoirse Ronan. She's been nominated for four Academy Awards for her films Atonement, Brooklyn, Lady Bird and Little Women. She stars in two new films, The Outrun and Blitz. I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, and this is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air.

I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, back with Oscar-nominated actor Saoirse Ronan. She stars in two new films in theaters this fall, The Outrun, about a young woman dealing with her alcoholism, living on a small island off the coast of Scotland, and Blitz, about a mother desperately trying to find her son during Germany's bombing attacks on London during World War II.

You were born in New York City in the Bronx. Your parents had moved to the U.S. from Ireland in the 1980s. Why did they come to New York?

Do you remember your first time on a set as a child?

Now, your role in the 2015 film Brooklyn got you your second Oscar nomination. And Brooklyn is about a young woman who immigrates to the U.S. from Ireland because her sister wants her to leave so that she can have more opportunities. And your character Eilish is torn between the life she's starting in the U.S. and her life back in the small town where she grew up in Ireland.

Was part of what drew you to this movie the fact that your parents immigrated to the U.S. when they were that young? Of course, you know, it's a different time period. But was that part of the appeal of the movie?

I want to play a scene from the film. Your character lives in a boarding house but is very homesick and misses her sister and mother. And one evening she goes to a dance for Irish immigrants. She didn't really want to go, but she goes and meets a young Italian-American named Tony, played by Emery Cohen. She dances with him and he walks her home.

Saoirse Ronan's performance as a precocious young girl in the war drama Atonement got her her first Oscar nomination. She was only 13 at the time, and three other nominations were to follow. One for the 2015 film Brooklyn, about a young Irish woman in the 1950s, torn between her new life in the U.S. and her homeland.

That's a scene from the 2015 film Brooklyn. Now, the character Eilish is pulled in two different directions, her new home in Brooklyn, her old one back in Ireland. You started acting and being on sets when you were so young. You were always kind of traveling. Do you think your work affected your sense of place and of home?

Our guest today is Saoirse Ronan. She has two new films, The Outrun and Blitz. More after a break. This is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air, back with actor Saoirse Ronan. She stars in two new films in theaters, The Outrun and Blitz. She's received four Oscar nominations over the years for her roles in the films Atonement, Brooklyn, Lady Bird, and Little Women.

Her other films include The Lovely Bones, Mary, Queen of Scots, and The Grand Budapest Hotel. Now, you're very good at doing accents. You know, you're Scottish in The Outrun, English in Blitz. You do a specific regional accent in Brooklyn. And, of course, you do an American accent in the films Lady Bird and Little Women. I was wondering if you think about... That living in the U.S.

as a baby helped you with your American accent. So it just makes me think about language at that early age and kind of like how weird and malleable it could be.

Saoirse Ronan, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thank you. I know you read the book The Outrun and loved it so much that you wanted to make it into a movie, produce it, and play the main character. What was it about the book that you found so compelling?

I want to ask you about the film Lady Bird and working with director Greta Gerwig, who you've worked with on two films. Let's hear a scene from Lady Bird. It's at the beginning of the movie. Lady Bird and her mom, played by Laurie Metcalf, have been on a road trip visiting colleges.

And your character, who's named herself Lady Bird, is talking about how she wants to leave Sacramento and go to school far away.

So that scene ends with your character jumping out of the moving car. Now, at its core, the film Lady Bird is about a daughter and a mother trying to do well by her daughter. And just, you know, they often get misaligned and don't get each other. And this movie is semi-autobiographical for Greta Gerwig.

Did you talk to – I'm sure you talked a lot about that mother-daughter relationship you mentioned that – You're very close to your mother. And I was wondering if you could talk about examining that in this film.

I was wondering if you could talk about working with Greta Gerwig and what in particular about the way she directs is something that, you know, you love or you're drawn to? Yeah.

Well Saoirse Ronan, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. It was lovely.

Now, you said that there were parts of this story of dealing with it was scary for you because it was too private, something that you hadn't completely explored before. And I'm not sure if you mean like in the film or in your life or both. What was so scary to you about it?

In this movie, you do some interesting things. You know, your character grew up on a sheep farm. And at one point, your character puts her hands in a sheep to get to help birth a lamb. And at another point, you know, you're in what seems like completely freezing water. Yeah. And the character is connecting with seals who are swimming there and it kind of shocks her into her body.

She got two nominations for the film she made with Greta Gerwig, Lady Bird in 2017 and Little Women in 2019. Her other movies include The Grand Budapest Hotel, The Lovely Bones, and Mary, Queen of Scots. This fall, she has two films in theaters.

So you physically did those things.

Now, the other movie that you have coming out this fall is Blitz by the director Steve McQueen. It's about a mother during Germany's bombing attacks on London in World War II. She's worried about her son's safety, so she follows the government's recommendation, which is to send all children to the countryside to avoid the bombing campaigns online.

I'm going to play a scene from the beginning of the film. The son, played by first-time child actor Elliot Heffernan, doesn't want to leave his mom and his grandfather. Why can't you come with me?

In the movie Blitz by the director Steve McQueen, Ronan plays a mother living in London with her young son and elderly father, all trying to survive the German bombing campaigns, Thank you.

That's a scene from the film Blitz. Now, I read that a photo that Steve McQueen saw while researching another project ended up inspiring this film. Is that your understanding of how it came about?

And what drew you to the film? I'll say that it's a different kind of World War II film that focuses on those left in London during the bombing attacks.

The actor who plays your son, Elliot Heffernan, hadn't ever acted before. And you started acting around the same age that he started. How in particular did you want to help him on set? I'm sure there are things that you remember that were great for you as a kid and things that were less great. Yeah.

You mentioned Stanley Tucci. And in 2010, Stanley Tucci came on Fresh Air and he talked about working with you on The Lovely Bones, which was a film with difficult subject matter. And you were still young at the time playing the girl who was murdered. Stanley Tucci was asked about working with a young actor with you and playing the murderer.

And I actually wanted to play that part of the interview where he talks about you. So let's take a listen.

She tries different things to get sober, going to rehab, moving back to Orkney, Scotland, to help her bipolar dad tend to his goat farm, and then to an even more remote island off the coast of Scotland, where she spends most of her time alone working on nature conservation. Here's a scene from the outrun. Rona is waking up after a bad night of drinking.

Oh, boy. That's Stanley Tucci on Fresh Air recorded in 2010. Yeah, it seemed like your family worked really hard for you to be professional and poised on set, even when the subject matter was so dire. Yeah.

Yes, you're picked up by your dad when you're almost five and you move to live with your parents in Canada. What do you remember about those early years, living with your parents who didn't really know and trying to acclimate yourself to this new country?

He says being fired from his accounting job is what helped him take the leap into acting. Simu Liu, welcome to Fresh Air.

Our guest is actor Simu Liu. His films include Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, Barbie, and the new film Last Breath. More after a break. I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, and this is Fresh Air.

In your memoir, you write about how difficult it was for you growing up as a teenager with your parents and their unrealistic expectations for you. What was so hard about your relationship back then in your teens?

your memoir is this beautiful, I think, way to try to reconcile what a lot of Asian American and Asian Canadian children of immigrants go through, that tension between knowing that your immigrant parents gave up so much for you, but they put all this pressure on you to succeed in a way that they understand. And it's not open to other ways of life.

And I feel like you telling the story of your grandparents and and your parents and your own story, trying to understand what they went through. It was like you were trying to repair the hurt across generations, the way you do that by explaining their lives and their hardships and what they came to parenting with as their background. Can you quickly describe what their teen years were like?

This new movie, Last Breath, is about saturation divers. Can you explain what saturation divers do?

Because it's this contrast to your teen years, obviously. Yeah.

For them, it was like literally the education that saved them. Yeah.

Now, even though you loved performing in high school and college, whether it was starting a high school boy band or performing in front of other students, you still went through school and university and got a business degree and graduated and became an accountant. But your accounting career was short-lived. Can you talk about what happened there, your acting origin story?

That's pretty high level too.

What was it like breaking into acting and performing, having no past experience, no training, no family in the business? What kind of jobs did you get?

Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more. My guest is actor and writer Simu Liu. His films include Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings and Barbie. His new film is called Last Breath. More after a break. This is Fresh Air. You've talked about this before, but I want to ask you about being hired to do stock photos.

So, you know, if someone needs a photo of a diverse workplace or people working in an office at all, they could find a photo of you. What was was that a good job for you at the time? And why are those photos still out there?

I want to ask you about Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. And Shang-Chi is the first Asian character to be a lead in the Marvel Universe. The film was released in 2021. Let's play a scene from the film. And as with a lot of Marvel films, it's kind of challenging to set up the story. But when we meet you at the beginning of the film, you play Shawn.

who lives in San Francisco and spends a lot of time with his friend Katie, played by Awkwafina. You're attacked by assassins on a bus, and it comes out that your character has a secret identity. Your father was a mortal warrior, and your mother was also a magical fighter. And when your character was still a child, your mom gets murdered, and your father wants you to avenge her death.

Instead, your character flees to the U.S. It's now a decade later, and the father is looking for you and trying to call you back. Now, in this scene, it's your character explaining the story to Awkwafina.

That's a scene from the film Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. The story goes that before you got this role, you tweeted at Marvel about how they needed to have an Asian superhero.

You did this?

Actor Simu Liu has taken on some roles that are pretty physically challenging. He does killer fight sequences in the film Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings. And who can forget him dancing as one of the Kens in the movie Barbie? His latest film may be even more extreme, the action thriller Last Breath. is based on the true story of deep-sea divers in peril at the bottom of the North Sea.

Well, yeah, that's it. Watching this film back, you know, it's so funny. You two are very funny together. And of course, it's this action movie, but there are also all these parallels between your character and your life. You know, there's the idea of parents wanting you to be something you're not. Of course, in the case of the movie, it's about being an assassin, but still.

And then there are also these ideas, as we heard in the scene, like these ideas of trying to assimilate and trying to to blend in. Was that one of the things that was attractive about this movie?

My guest is Simu Liu. He stars in the Marvel movie Shang-Chi and Legend of the Ten Rings, the film Barbie, and the TV sitcom Kim's Convenience. His new film is called Last Breath. More after a break. This is Fresh Air. I think many people first saw you on the CBC show Kim's Convenience about an immigrant family in Canada who runs a convenience store.

The show was picked up by Netflix and got a lot of viewers through that, including my mother, by the way. And I want to play a scene from the pilot episode. Your character, Jung, is estranged from his dad who runs the convenience store. They haven't talked for years. Jung is working at a car rental place when his dad shows up one day to return a car.

Jung doesn't want to talk to his dad, so he asks his boss to talk to him instead.

That's a scene from the first episode of Kim's Convenience. I thought it was interesting reading your book that there was this echo in the show in this first big role that you got early in your career.

And they used to watch it with friends.

How are your parents feeling about you being an actor now?

Simu Liu, thank you so much for speaking with me today.

Well, right. Saturation diving. It's one of the most dangerous jobs out there. These divers go down to the bottom of the ocean. They repair oil rigs and gas pipes. And it's to provide the infrastructure of the way people live their lives. And your character, David Yuasa, is based on a real diver. Just like you said, it's based on a real diver who made this rescue. You talked to him.

It occurs to me it might be the first time you're playing a real living person. What was that like? What did you learn from him?

Yeah, he was essentially doing like that, what people do in gym class, like climbing the rope. And, you know, he has his co-worker whose life he's trying to save. And it's just like the most high stakes rope climb you could ever imagine.

What was this shoot like? Were you shooting in extreme conditions? Because you play one of these divers who's at the bottom of the North Sea. As you've described, you know, you're in this little tin can, kind of isolated. Even when there isn't a crisis, it's this isolated environment. Did you shoot that way?

In 2012, three divers were embarking on a routine dive when rough weather and computer errors caused one diver's umbilical cable to get stuck, leaving him trapped.

I want to ask about the movie Barbie. And I was kind of shocked when I realized that it's only been a year since you performed the song I'm Just Ken with Ryan Gosling and the other Kens at the Oscar ceremony. That was just a year ago. And I just want to remind people to go back and watch it if they want to experience joy. But what was it like performing the song for the Oscar audience?

You guys were so committed to it.

You're the main Kens.

I want to play a scene from Barbie. It's near the beginning of the movie. The main Ken, played by Ryan Gosling, has just tried to quote unquote beach. He was trying to run towards the water and he ends up hitting the plastic wave and he gets knocked down. And you play his number one op Ken, like his nemesis Ken. And you're laughing at him.

And the other Ken in this scene is Kingsley Ben-Adir and Margot Robbie as Barbie is also here too. Let's hear it.

That's Simu Liu in the 2023 film Barbie. How did you come to be part of this film?

Yeah, you do show off your dance moves. And as you mentioned, you did a lot of dance when you were at university. Can you talk about what your dance troupe was like?

Like competing against other university teams.

That's Simu Liu, with Finn Cole as the diver who stuck with only minutes of reserve oxygen left. Simu Liu's character with another diver, played by Woody Harrelson, desperately tried to bring the trapped diver back to safety. Simu Liu's first big break was in the CBC Netflix comedy Kim's Convenience, which ran for five seasons.

The Jabberwockies.

You were born in Harbin, China, and you were raised there by your grandparents while your parents were trying to start a life in Canada. What do you remember about that time, those early years?

Kathleen Hanna has always been a force. She burst onto the music scene in the 90s as the frontwoman of Bikini Kill, a band that fearlessly confronted issues of sexism and sexual assault while encouraging female empowerment through their music. Her raw vocals and unapologetic lyrics helped challenge punk rock norms and inspired others to do so as well.

Bikini Kill, along with other feminist punk bands, encouraged their fans to come to shows, write zines, and form girl bands of their own as a way to fight the sexism that existed in punk and in wider society in general. Hannah created a space for young women to express themselves, fight against misogyny, and build community.

Bikini Kill made an enormous impact in music and in the lives of their fans, but as Hannah writes about in her new memoir, Rebel Girl, It took a toll. Helping fans deal with their experiences of sexual violence meant that she had to think about her own.

In the book, she writes about all that, as well as her childhood, the building of her feminist art in college, starting and leaving bands, and becoming the face of a movement. She also writes about finding out that an undiagnosed case of Lyme disease was the reason she couldn't physically perform anymore.

She's performing again with her band Bikini Kill and her other bands La Tigra and the Julie Ruin. Kathleen Hanna, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thanks for having me. I'd like for you to start by reading a passage from the beginning of your book, Rebel Girl. Sure.

So speaking of your memoir and the title of your memoir, Rebel Girl, I wanted to ask you about that song. It was released in 1993. It ended up being produced by Joan Jett, who heard about Bikini Kill and wanted to work with you all. And this song kind of became an anthem for the feminist punk movement of that time. Can you talk about writing that song?

That's the song Rebel Girl from 1993 by the band Bikini Kill. I think for a lot of people, that song is about you. You know, like you think a lot of girls, a lot of your fans wanted to be. But so you were thinking, who else were you thinking about when you wrote that song?

I was thinking about... Your Bikini Kill... My Bikini Kill bandmates, you know?

Now, you were born in Portland, Oregon, but you spent a lot of your childhood in Maryland. Can you describe where you grew up and your family at that point?

Well one of the first times you performed as a kid was in a musical. It was Annie. Can you talk about what you liked about performing at that point?

Well, you tell this story about what happened after the real performance, and that story is heartbreaking. Do you mind sharing it?

Well, and there's this point in the book where you write about what your father went through, like he had siblings that passed away and his father passed away. And he sort of never recovered from that. And he carried this darkness, you say, into your house and he drank a lot.

But I felt like that was not that you gave that background not to give him an excuse, but to maybe try to explain why he was the way he was.

When did you decide that you wanted to be a punk performer? You said that when you were a kid, you were always searching for a way to be heard. Was this that way?

You went to college in Olympia, Washington at Evergreen State, and you started out as a visual artist doing photography, and you also worked in sewing-like fashion. You were also – Did a feminist fashion show. And you were working on this big project. You were at school late at night. So you weren't at your apartment. And your roommate, a close friend of yours, was attacked.

She was assaulted in your apartment. It's a terrible story. And it's her assault that kind of propelled you to talk about violence against women even more in your work. And you also started volunteering with victims of violence. It seemed like it gave you like a framework for...

your feminism or thinking about oppression, but it also gave you tools to help the people that you were going to be encountering very soon.

You started playing in bands while you were in college, and at your shows, you started to talk about sexism and sexual assault between songs or in your songs, and that's when girls in your audiences started to come up to you and talk to you after shows about their experiences. with sexual violence and assault.

Now, Bikini Hill tried to make your shows a safe place for women, a safe space. Can you describe how and why you did that? Like it's of a particular time.

Now, before your book, you'd never really talked publicly about being a parent. You're married to Adam Horowitz of BC Boys, and you have a son. And you've said you didn't want to talk about it because you didn't want to be asked those questions that people ask women artists about work-life balance and doing it all. And I totally get what you mean there.

But I did want to ask why you decided to write about it now.

Now, recently you've been playing out again the last couple years. You've had reunion tours with Bikini Kill and La Tigra. And your shows when you were young were so, like, visceral. Do they still feel that way to you?

Well, Kathleen, Hannah, it's been great talking with you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Okay. Now it's time for Jazz Plus Jazz Equals Jazz. Today we have a recording of Benny Goodman played over a separate recording of Miles Davis.

Yes.

Yeah.

Actor Simu Liu has taken on some roles that are pretty physically challenging. He does killer fight sequences in the film Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings. And who can forget him dancing as one of the Kens in the movie Barbie? His latest film may be even more extreme. The action thriller Last Breath is based on the true story of deep sea divers in peril at the bottom of the North Sea.

In 2012, three divers were embarking on a routine dive when rough weather and computer errors caused one diver's umbilical cable to get stuck, leaving him trapped.

That's Simu Liu, with Finn Cole as the diver who's stuck with only minutes of reserve oxygen left. Simu Liu's character with another diver, played by Woody Harrelson, desperately tried to bring the trapped diver back to safety. Simu Liu's first big break was in the CBC Netflix comedy Kim's Convenience, which ran for five seasons.

He says being fired from his accounting job is what helped him take the leap into acting. His bestselling memoir, We Were Dreamers. An immigrant superhero origin story explores his family's immigration to Canada, his struggles growing up with immigrant parents, the challenges of breaking into the industry, and of being an Asian Canadian in Hollywood. Simu Liu, welcome to Fresh Air.

This new movie, Last Breath, is about saturation divers. Can you explain what saturation divers do? Sure.

Well, right. Saturation diving. It's one of the most dangerous jobs out there. These divers go down to the bottom of the ocean. They repair oil rigs and gas pipes. And it's to provide the infrastructure of the way people live their lives. And your character, David Yuasa, is based on a real diver. Just like you said, it's based on a real diver who made this rescue. You talked to him.

It occurs to me it might be the first time you're playing a real living person. What was that like? What did you learn from him?

Yeah, he was essentially doing like that, what people do in gym class, like climbing the rope. And, you know, he has his co-worker whose life he's trying to save. And it's just like the most high stakes rope climb you could ever imagine.

What was this shoot like? Were you shooting in extreme conditions? Because you play one of these divers who's at the bottom of the North Sea. As you've described, you know, you're in this little tin can, kind of isolated. Even when there isn't a crisis, it's this isolated environment. Did you shoot that way?

I want to play a scene from Barbie. It's near the beginning of the movie. The main Ken, played by Ryan Gosling, has just tried to quote unquote beach. He was trying to run towards the water and he ends up hitting the plastic wave and he gets knocked down. And you play his number one op Ken, like his nemesis Ken. And you're laughing at him.

And the other Ken in this scene is Kingsley Ben-Adir and Margot Robbie as Barbie is also here too. Let's hear it.

Okay?

That's Simu Liu in the 2023 film Barbie. How did you come to be part of this film?

Yeah, you do show off your dance moves. And as you mentioned, you did a lot of dance when you were at university. Can you talk about what your dance troupe was like?

You were born in Harbin, China, and you were raised there by your grandparents while your parents were trying to start a life in Canada. What do you remember about that time, those early years?

Yes, you're picked up by your dad when you're almost five and you move to live with your parents in Canada. What do you remember about those early years, living with your parents who didn't really know and trying to acclimate yourself to this new country?

In your memoir, you write about how difficult it was for you growing up as a teenager with your parents and their unrealistic expectations for you. What was so hard about your relationship back then in your teens?

your memoir is this beautiful, I think, way to try to reconcile what a lot of Asian American and Asian Canadian children of immigrants go through, that tension between knowing that your immigrant parents gave up so much for you, but they put all this pressure on you to succeed in a way that they understand. And it's not open to other ways of life.

And I feel like you telling the story of your grandparents and your parents and your own story, trying to understand what they went through, it was like you were trying to repair like the hurt across generations. The way you do that by explaining their lives and their hardships and like what they came, you know, to parenting with as their background.

Can you quickly describe what their teen years were like? Because it's this contrast to your teen years, obviously. Yeah.

I want to ask you about Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. And Shang-Chi is the first Asian character to be a lead in the Marvel Universe. The film was released in 2021. Let's play a scene from the film. And as with a lot of Marvel films, it's kind of challenging to set up the story. But when we meet you at the beginning of the film, you play Shawn.

who lives in San Francisco and spends a lot of time with his friend Katie, played by Awkwafina. You're attacked by assassins on a bus, and it comes out that your character has a secret identity. Your father was a mortal warrior, and your mother was also a magical fighter. And when your character was still a child, your mom gets murdered, and your father wants you to avenge her death.

Instead, your character flees to the U.S. It's now a decade later, and the father is looking for you and trying to call you back. Now, in this scene, it's your character explaining the story to Awkwafina.

That's a scene from the film Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. The story goes that before you got this role, you tweeted at Marvel about how they needed to have an Asian superhero.

You did this?

Well, yeah, that's it. Watching this film back, you know, it's so funny. You two are very funny together. And, of course, it's this action movie. But there are also all these parallels between your character and your life. You know, there's the idea of parents wanting you to be something you're not. Of course, in the case of the movie, it's about being an assassin, but still.

And then there are also these ideas, as we heard in the scene, like these ideas of trying to assimilate and trying to blend in. Sure. Was that one of the things that was attractive about this movie?

Simu Liu, thank you so much for speaking with me today.

World news is important, but it can feel far away. Not on the State of the World podcast. With journalists around the world, you'll hear firsthand the effects of U.S. trade actions in Canada and China and meet a Mexican street sweeper who became a pop star. We don't go around the world. We're already there. Listen to the State of the World podcast from NPR every weekday.

And then when you moved to the U.S., what kind of stuff were you watching?

Now, when you were watching comedy when you're in high school, you didn't think, though, that you wanted to do it yet, did you? Absolutely not.

I think your joke is that economics is the easiest major that you could do that's still acceptable for Asian parents.

Jimmy O. Yang's character, Willis Wu, then does witness a crime, and that launches him into the center of the story. The show takes place in an off-kilter version of Chinatown, both real place and the setting of a TV police procedural called Black and White.

Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more. My guest is the actor and stand-up comic Jimmy O. Yang. His new TV show is Interior Chinatown, based on the award-winning novel of the same name. More after a break. I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, and this is Fresh Air. Hi, this is Molly C.V.

This is Fresh Air. I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, back with actor and stand-up comedian Jimmy O. Yang. He's the star of the new Hulu series, Interior Chinatown, based on the novel of the same name, which was awarded the National Book Award. The author of the book, Charles Yu, is a TV writer and adapted the book for the screen.

It's about what happens when one of the background characters in a TV procedural becomes the main character. Jimmy O. Yang's films include Crazy Rich Asians and Patriot's Day. He co-starred in the critically acclaimed HBO comedy series Silicon Valley. He's had numerous stand-up specials, and his memoir is called How to American, An Immigrant's Guide to Disappointing Your Parents.

I'm going to ask you about getting into stand-up comedy. In your book, you talk about how comedy clubs ended up being like a place where you felt like you belonged and you had community and people were like respectful of your jokes. Like they helped you work on your material and make your jokes better.

The show Interior Chinatown, like the book it's based on, is a funny, dramatic, fantastical take on the role Asian Americans play in pop culture and in real life. And it's a perfect fit for Jimmy O. Yang. A lot of his comedy is about what it means to be Asian in America. He was born in Hong Kong. His family immigrated to Los Angeles when Jimmy was 13.

When was the first time that your parents saw you do stand up?

Well, it's interesting that originally you felt that you were disappointing your parents by becoming a comedian and an actor. But now your dad is an actor. I want to play a clip from one of your stand up specials. It's the special Good Deal from 2020. And you're talking about your dad becoming an actor.

That's a clip from Jimmy O. Yang's stand-up special. So how did it actually happen that he became an actor?

So there's one time where you actually took a role from your father. It was for the show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. How did that happen?

He found comedy while still in college and started performing in clubs almost every night. His big acting break came in 2014 when he was cast in the HBO comedy Silicon Valley. Roles in the films Crazy Rich Asians and Patriot's Day were to follow. He has numerous stand-up specials, and he wrote a book called How to American, An Immigrant's Guide to Disappointing Your Parents.

And then you did end up getting your dad a job years later when you were in the film Patriots Day.

What is it like working with your dad? Have you also had conversations? I mean, now you're both actors. Do you talk about acting?

What a gift you have that you're getting to forge this different kind of relationship with your Asian dad. How many of us would have killed for that?

Jimmy O. Yang, welcome to Fresh Air.

Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more. My guest is the actor and stand-up comic Jimmy O. Yang. His new TV show is Interior Chinatown, based on the award-winning novel of the same name. More after a break. This is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air. I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, back with stand-up comic and actor Jimmy O. Yang.

You may know him from Silicon Valley and Crazy Rich Asians or from his stand-up specials. Now he stars in the new TV show Interior Chinatown, based on the award-winning novel of the same name. My judge wrote an introduction to your book, your memoir, How to American. And you are friends.

Of course, he co-created Silicon Valley, which was the show that you co-started and was kind of your big acting break. And in the introduction, he says that when they cast you, he didn't know that you weren't exactly like your character. Can you describe your character and how you approached auditioning for that show?

Okay. I'll be there.

I want to start by talking about your new show, Interior Chinatown. I read that when you heard about this project, you felt like you had to get the role of Willis. Why did you feel so strongly about this story?

I think, you know, when the show was just starting, there may have been some criticism that they got a lot of jokes out of your character having this fresh off the boatness. But I think that changed after your character developed over the course of the show. Can you talk about how it felt at the beginning and sort of what it became?

In your book, you write sort of about this topic that you've talked to Asian-American actors who won't even audition for a role if it has an Asian accent because they think that it reinforces the stereotype of Asians being like a constant foreigner. But you disagree. Can you talk about what you mean?

In the first episode of Interior Chinatown, there's a fight scene, a huge fight scene. And, you know, the trope of, you know, Kung Fu guy, that kind of character that Asians play in pop culture, that's also part of the show. But what was it like training to do those fight scenes, to be an action hero?

Jimmy O. Yang, congrats on the TV show and thanks for joining us.

What if one of the background characters at the beginning of an episode of a show like Law & Order became the main character? That's the premise of the new show Interior Chinatown. Here's the beginning of the first episode. It's the back alley behind a Chinese restaurant.

The book Interior Chinatown was written, like you said, by Charles Yu. He's a writer for TV shows as well as a novelist. And he wrote the book and adapted it for TV. Did you talk about his ideas for the book and also the show, like what he was trying to get across, what frustrations he wanted to address?

There are all these ways the show sets up Asian-American stereotypes and then subverts them. Like one example is – it's a small example, but at one point, you know, Willis' character isn't able to enter the police station to work on a case. And he tries and you just can't get in. But then he gets this idea of pretending –

to be a delivery guy, and that gets him in so he can start working on the case. And that keeps happening. He becomes all of these background characters, delivery guy, tech guy. And that's just one example. But can you talk about how the show plays with stereotypes like that and tries to invert them?

Two workers, played by Ronnie Chang and our guest, Jimmy O. Yang, are talking while they're bringing bags of garbage to the dumpster.

Right. It's like accepting that you're only good for the background.

I read that to get into this character, you bought a beat-up Toyota Corolla and drove it around town. Why did you decide to do that, and what did you learn?

I want to ask you about your childhood. You were born in Hong Kong, but your parents were from Shanghai. Can you talk about what that was like, what you remember about being a kid before you moved to the U.S.?

Now, your family, your parents, and you and your older brother immigrated to the U.S. when you were 13. Your grandparents, I think, and other relatives were already living in the L.A. area. What was it like when you first got there and your grandparents lived in Beverly Hills, which you thought would be way fancy? You thought it would be fancy.

They won't revoke your diploma.

I think sometimes when immigrants or people of color are growing up, they end up overcompensating. Like in order to fit in, they become like uber quote unquote American.

Or try to be extremely mainstream. I think that happens with immigrant kids, kids of immigrants. I know it happened with me at points when I was a kid. Did this happen to you like in the interest of belonging or assimilating?

Inadvertently?

No, we learned that, yes.

What kind of TV and movies did you love as a kid?

Yeah, the thing about your character Shiv, she's an observer. She sometimes hangs back and watches as her brothers, her father, people in the company interact. And she seems to process it. And you can see that on your face. Can you talk about how you thought about Shiv as an observer? Yeah.

When Sarah Snook did this play for a run in London last year, it earned her an Olivier Award, which is the British equivalent of a Tony. This isn't the only award that she's received. She won an Emmy and two Golden Globes for playing fan favorite Shiv Roy, the daughter of Logan Roy, on the show Succession.

Sarah Snook just received a Tony nomination for her role on Broadway in the stage adaptation of The Picture of Dorian Gray. We'll talk more about Succession after a break. I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, and this is Fresh Air.

I want to play a scene from Succession. This is actually the last episode. The board of the company is meeting to decide the company's future and who will take over. Would it be your brother, Kendall, or Shiv's brother, Kendall Roy, or would the board approve a sale to a tech company? After all the votes are in, Shiv is the deciding vote.

She walks out of the room and the brothers, played by Jeremy Strong and Kieran Culkin, follow her.

Sarah Snook was born in Australia, where she went to drama school and received many accolades for her work on stage and screen. Her films include Jobs, The Dressmaker, and Memoir of a Snail. Sarah Snook, welcome to Fresh Air. Hi, thanks for having me.

That's a scene from Succession. What's it like to hear that scene now? Oh, it's so funny. Oh, my gosh.

what?

Jesse Armstrong is the creator of Succession. And a lot has been made about how some of Succession was improvised. And once I heard Kieran Culkin, who played your brother Roman, say that you're his favorite improv partner. Can you tell Talk about the improv or if there was a lot of it.

And even in that scene we just heard, there's your character and Kieran Culkin's character reacting to what Jeremy Strong is saying. And like all the no's and the like oofs feel like very in the moment. Yeah.

Well, the creator of this adaptation, Kip Williams, a fellow Australian, when he approached you about taking on this role or these roles, what was your response? I read that you said that if you had seen the show, you might not have agreed to do it. Yes.

I want to play another scene from Succession. This is a really emotional scene. It's when Logan Roy's children find out that Logan is dying. They're all on a boat celebrating the wedding of the oldest son, Connor. They've received a call from Shiv's husband, Tom, played by Matthew McFadden, who's on a plane with Logan.

When he's passed out in the bathroom and isn't responsive, Tom calls the siblings to share the news. Kendall and Roman have tried to say goodbye and have handed the phone to Shiv, who's just finding out.

That's a scene from Sex Session. That episode was such a killer. And it shows how the siblings are still their father's kids. They hate him, but they still love him and want his approval. Was that episode difficult to film?

I heard the director of that episode and many episodes, Mark Myland, talk about how you filmed this scene and gave it all of this weight and then you sort of snapped out of it and were your delightful Sarah Snooks self again. Is that how you usually are able to do things? Are you able to go in and out like that?

Yeah.

My guest is stage and screen actor Sarah Snook. She played Shiv Roy on the Emmy Award-winning show Succession. Now she's on Broadway playing all of the roles in the stage adaptation of The Picture of Dorian Gray. More after a break. This is Fresh Air. I want to ask you about Shiv's marriage to Tom. And spoiler alert, Tom, the son-in-law, ends up becoming the head of the company.

Shiv's by his side. And I want to play a scene, though, from earlier in that last season. Tom and Shiv are hosting a pre-election party when it looks like their candidate is going to win. And there are all these powerful people there. But they're so angry with each other that they go out on the balcony and have a blowout fight.

As we've mentioned, you play all characters in this show, and you're also the narrator of this story. How do you differentiate between the characters? Do you develop the characters in the same way you would if you were just playing one part in a play, if you were slumming it and only playing one part?

That's a scene from the last season of Succession. Can you talk about filming that scene with Matthew McFadden? Yeah.

Yeah.

And Shiv is pregnant at that point, but hasn't told him. Yeah. Which makes it even more hurtful.

Now, you grew up in Australia, and I read that you grew up near a national park. So was that very rural or picturesque?

And you have two older sisters, so you were the youngest, just like Shiv. Your parents got divorced when you were young, and you moved a bit, but I read that one thing that was constant was your love of watching movies, and your mom even worked for Disney for a time.

I read that you were sort of more interested in the character actor or the villain.

Yes, they have the good lines. They have the great lines. Well, Sarah Snook, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Nice to chat.

And how do you develop these different voices? If you could talk a little bit more about that. And then how do you keep them straight?

Basil is the artist who did the portrait.

Now, in an interview, I heard you say that when you were a kid, you used to love listening to cassettes of poems of Roald Dahl. And you used to memorize them. And I tried to find it online. I couldn't actually find it.

But I was thinking that if you memorize those poems and they were read by British actors, listening could have been like great training for you doing The Picture of Dorian Gray, which is a bunch of different flowery British characters.

It's hard to describe Sarah Snook's performance in The Picture of Dorian Gray. Snook plays all 26 characters in this stage adaptation of Oscar Wilde's novel from 1890. It feels like you're watching a two-hour sprint. She's giving a nonstop monologue, a crazy athletic solo performance.

Through the help of cameras and recordings of you doing the other parts, you're actually acting opposite yourself. Is it odd to be acting with yourself as a scene partner? And this is like a version of yourself that was recorded a few years ago.

Well, the performance is highly choreographed. You have to be very precise. You have to get to a mark or where you're supposed to be in time for you to interact with a recording of that you performed as another character. You say there are sequences where you have like seconds to get lines out. Otherwise, the scene cues will be off.

They don't wait for you.

One thing I want to add about the play is that it's funny. Not only the turns of phrases or the performance, but there's also this cheekiness to it. Like the narrator is a bit cheeky. And there are also other choices that you make. The way you switch from character to character can be quite funny.

For those who don't remember this gothic horror story, it's about a young man, Dorian Gray, who falls in love with his own beauty when an artist friend paints a portrait of him. He loves his own image so much that he makes a wish, a Faustian bargain, that allows him to stay young and beautiful while his portrait ages and decays.

I want to ask about Succession. The show is about a rich and powerful family. The patriarch, Logan Roy, played by Brian Cox, runs a media company. His health is deteriorating and his children are jockeying for control of the company, for power, and of course, for their dad's love. You said that originally you didn't want to audition for the role of Shiv Roy.

I'm guessing this would have been like over or around 10 years ago now. Why didn't you think the role was right for you at the time?

Do you remember what you did or what your take on it was that might have sort of, even though you originally didn't think it was the role for you, made them take note of you to be Shiv?

Like that's like a little above it, but also like showing up angry and wanting to win the test. Yeah, exactly. As Tom says. There you go. Yeah. Well, it occurred to me that the way Succession was filmed may have had some similarities to the way you perform your current role in Dorian Gray.

I think that for Succession, there were numerous cameras following the cast as they did scenes, kind of like the cameras that follow you on stage.

The show uses pre-recorded snippets of Snook, playing different characters, projected on huge video screens. There are cameras, iPhones, and lightning-quick costume and set changes, all used to tell this story that culminates in Dorian spiraling, and ultimately facing his sins and his mortality.

Wait, so you would sort of perform the scenes and it was kind of the camera people's job to sort of anticipate where you might go with it?

I want to go back to the origins of the show Hacks. Where did the idea for Hacks come from? And I think some of the origin story involves a car trip way back in 2016. Yeah, actually 2015.

I think it's kind of a thing now to ask comedians what their thoughts are about cancel culture, the thought that it's difficult to do comedy now because everyone's too PC. And I think it's a little unfair to ask all comics about this issue. But you and your co-creators actually take this topic head on, especially this season. Why did you want to do that and not shy away from it?

I'll say too that the series even starts with the younger comic Ava having a tough time getting a job because this kind of edgy joke she put on Twitter kind of made it so that was hard for her to get work.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

It's very rare for people to go inside.

This is Fresh Air contributor Anne-Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh Air podcast.

This is Fresh Air contributor Anne-Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh Air podcast.

This is Fresh Air contributor Anne-Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh Air podcast.

This is Fresh Air contributor Anne-Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh Air podcast.

This is Fresh Air contributor Anne-Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh Air podcast.

I would say yes. I would want to, yeah.

This is Fresh Air contributor Anne-Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh Air podcast.

This is Fresh Air contributor Anne-Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh Air podcast.