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Short Wave

All Of Life Has A Common Ancestor. What Was LUCA?

Fri, 17 Jan 2025

Description

Imagine the tree of life. The tip of every branch represents one species, and if you follow any two branches back through time, you'll hit an intersection. If you keep going back in time, you'll eventually find the common ancestor for all of life. That ancestor is called LUCA, the last universal common ancestor, and there is no fossil record to tell us what it looked like. Luckily, we have Jonathan Lambert. He's a science correspondent for NPR and today he's talking all things LUCA: What we think this single-celled organism may have looked like, when it lived and why a recent study suggests it could be older and more complex than scientists thought. Have other questions about ancient biology? Email us at [email protected] — we'd love to hear from you!Listen to every episode of Short Wave sponsor-free and support our work at NPR by signing up for Short Wave+ at plus.npr.org/shortwave.In a previous version of this episode, we said that the research team used carbon-dated fossils to calibrate a molecular clock aimed at estimating the age of LUCA. In fact, the researchers used radio isotopic-dated fossils for that purpose.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Transcription

Chapter 1: What is LUCA and why is it important?

Chapter 2: What does LUCA tell us about the tree of life?

85.662 - 97.269 Jonathan Lambert

And if you follow any two branches back in time, they converge on their most recent common ancestor. So like chimps and humans, for instance, converge on a common ancestor that lived like less than 10 million years ago.

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99.082 - 117.61 Jonathan Lambert

If you keep tracing any path of ancestry back far enough, whether you start with gorillas or sharks or ginkgo trees or those neat bacteria that live in the bowels of the earth, you'll eventually reach the same single point. That's Luca. That's the ancestor of every living thing and every dead thing that we know about.

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117.71 - 123.593 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Grandma. Wow. That's awesome. Why do we want to know about Luca?

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124.122 - 140.337 Jonathan Lambert

Scientists want to understand what it was like because it gets at this really fundamental question of where we, as in all life on Earth, came from. And here's a new development. A team of scientists took the biggest swing yet at trying to paint a picture of Luca through some pretty tricky detective work.

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140.938 - 149.646 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

So today on the show, how scientists use clues from life today to uncover what our last universal common ancestor may have looked like.

150.319 - 156.802 Jonathan Lambert

how it could be a bit older and more complicated than we thought, and if true, could hint that we're not the only life in the universe.

157.142 - 162.325 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Dun, dun, dun! You're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.

170.023 - 193.716 Tanya Mosley

I'm Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long-form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, TV, music, and journalism. Here our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY.

195.427 - 213.065 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Know that fizzy feeling you get when you read something really good, watch the movie everyone's been talking about, or catch the show that the internet can't get over? At the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast, we chase that feeling four times a week. We'll serve you recommendations and commentary on the buzziest movies, TV, music, and more.

Chapter 3: How do scientists study LUCA?

213.505 - 219.191 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

From lowbrow to highbrow to the stuff in between, catch the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR.

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221.86 - 225.601 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

On NPR's ThruLine. Witnesses were ending up dead.

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226.502 - 231.124 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

How the hunt for gangster Al Capone launched the IRS to power.

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231.784 - 235.245 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Find NPR's ThruLine wherever you get your podcasts.

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239.727 - 247.65 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

All right, let's back up a second, John. How do we even know that Luca, who I fully believe in, but still, how do we know that Luca existed?

248.163 - 259.571 Jonathan Lambert

Evidence that it existed is hidden in every living thing. So we all share some basic fundamental machinery of life, things like a genetic code or using amino acids to build proteins.

260.251 - 265.575 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

I thought it was the desire to belong and, you know, have friends. Not that.

265.675 - 277.243 Jonathan Lambert

Yeah, yeah, not that. And given what we know about how evolution works, that genes get passed down from generation to generation, it follows that something like LUCA must have existed.

277.577 - 286.723 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Right. If we share genes with bacteria, we must have gotten that from a shared ancestor way back when. So is look at just another term for the origin of life?

Chapter 4: What challenges do researchers face in identifying LUCA?

304.454 - 319.353 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

In a way, you can think of it as almost the end of the story. of the origin of life as we know it, because all of the things that are in common across all of life that exists today would also have been already present by Luca.

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319.714 - 320.054 Emily Kwong

Wow.

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320.974 - 327.377 Jonathan Lambert

Yeah, and understanding the nature of the end of that story can still tell researchers a lot about early evolution.

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328.217 - 333.58 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Let's pick up that story then. How are researchers trying to tell it and figure out what Luca may have looked like?

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334.184 - 352.235 Jonathan Lambert

So in general, all these efforts try to guess the genes and proteins that Luca had by looking for what's shared across different organisms. Like, for example, if you compare a gene that's basically the same in us and chimps, it's pretty safe to say that we inherited it from our common ancestor. That's the simplest explanation.

352.995 - 356.638 Jonathan Lambert

But that kind of inference gets a lot more complicated the further back in time you go.

356.838 - 357.238 Emily Kwong

What do you mean?

357.938 - 362.221 Jonathan Lambert

Well, genes get up to a lot of shenanigans that can throw off that detective work.

363.305 - 367.882 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Well, what kinds of things can genes do to throw the scientist detective off their scent?

Chapter 5: What new insights have emerged about LUCA?

Chapter 6: How do horizontal gene transfers complicate our understanding of LUCA?

356.838 - 357.238 Emily Kwong

What do you mean?

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357.938 - 362.221 Jonathan Lambert

Well, genes get up to a lot of shenanigans that can throw off that detective work.

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363.305 - 367.882 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Well, what kinds of things can genes do to throw the scientist detective off their scent?

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368.274 - 388.38 Jonathan Lambert

Yeah, so there's horizontal gene transfer, which is this thing where instead of passing genes vertically from one generation to the next, some microbes can pass them horizontally to their neighbors. Like a bacterium can give its other bacteria friends antibiotic resistance, for example, when it butts up against them and shares that little bit of DNA.

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388.68 - 389.42 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

Oh, okay.

389.58 - 397.102 Jonathan Lambert

And so that can make it seem like a bunch of species all inherited this gene from a common ancestor when in reality it just got shared a bunch.

397.247 - 400.81 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

So that muddies the waters of the quest to draw a clearer picture of LUCA. What else does that?

400.99 - 418.026 Jonathan Lambert

Yeah. And then there's the issue of genes getting lost, but only for some species. Like if genes that were in LUCA get lost down the line in certain species, it could lead researchers to falsely conclude that the genes evolved after LUCA since it's not shared by all its descendants. Right.

418.351 - 427.581 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

I know enough about science as a non-scientist to know that this essentially means the data is really cluttered. Or like scientists would say, the data is really noisy.

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