Annie Jacobsen

And that's when I say conflicting. You know, I work with sources on a real trust basis, right? And sometimes people will tell me things. They'll say, Annie, this is off the record. This is for you to know about me. On deep background because I want you to know who I am. And that's powerful. And a lot of times it's personal, right? It's personal. It's about their personal life.

And they don't want that. And it isn't apropos to what I'm writing about. But I need to know that. And that's where it gets conflicted because you, in a good way, because you realize where we're all such creatures of our personal lives, right? So you have a professional life where your national security are in your hands. I don't know what that is like.

And they don't want that. And it isn't apropos to what I'm writing about. But I need to know that. And that's where it gets conflicted because you, in a good way, because you realize where we're all such creatures of our personal lives, right? So you have a professional life where your national security are in your hands. I don't know what that is like.

And they don't want that. And it isn't apropos to what I'm writing about. But I need to know that. And that's where it gets conflicted because you, in a good way, because you realize where we're all such creatures of our personal lives, right? So you have a professional life where your national security are in your hands. I don't know what that is like.

I think willingness... we were talking about trust earlier, like you have to trust that there's, I have to trust that there's a reason I find myself in a certain situation, right? Otherwise it would just be a constant, you know, doubt paradox, right? Why am I here? What am I doing? And so I trust that I'm going to learn something of value. And so I'm willing to listen.

I think willingness... we were talking about trust earlier, like you have to trust that there's, I have to trust that there's a reason I find myself in a certain situation, right? Otherwise it would just be a constant, you know, doubt paradox, right? Why am I here? What am I doing? And so I trust that I'm going to learn something of value. And so I'm willing to listen.

I think willingness... we were talking about trust earlier, like you have to trust that there's, I have to trust that there's a reason I find myself in a certain situation, right? Otherwise it would just be a constant, you know, doubt paradox, right? Why am I here? What am I doing? And so I trust that I'm going to learn something of value. And so I'm willing to listen.

I really am willing to listen, right? And so far, it's always proven, you know, the expectations I might have going into something are dwarfed by the outcome. because people are so interesting. And because the people that I interview, because I write about war and weapons and national security and government secrets, and the people I interview are at the heart of all of this.

I really am willing to listen, right? And so far, it's always proven, you know, the expectations I might have going into something are dwarfed by the outcome. because people are so interesting. And because the people that I interview, because I write about war and weapons and national security and government secrets, and the people I interview are at the heart of all of this.

I really am willing to listen, right? And so far, it's always proven, you know, the expectations I might have going into something are dwarfed by the outcome. because people are so interesting. And because the people that I interview, because I write about war and weapons and national security and government secrets, and the people I interview are at the heart of all of this.

I mean, they are really capable people, intellectually brilliant, physically capable. They go so far out on the limb to do their jobs. And by the way, the reason they're talking to me is because they're still alive. And so many of their colleagues are dead. So it gives them also a wisdom about, you know, life, about sacrifice, not in cliched sort of nationalistic, jingoistic terms whatsoever.

I mean, they are really capable people, intellectually brilliant, physically capable. They go so far out on the limb to do their jobs. And by the way, the reason they're talking to me is because they're still alive. And so many of their colleagues are dead. So it gives them also a wisdom about, you know, life, about sacrifice, not in cliched sort of nationalistic, jingoistic terms whatsoever.

I mean, they are really capable people, intellectually brilliant, physically capable. They go so far out on the limb to do their jobs. And by the way, the reason they're talking to me is because they're still alive. And so many of their colleagues are dead. So it gives them also a wisdom about, you know, life, about sacrifice, not in cliched sort of nationalistic, jingoistic terms whatsoever.

I'm talking like real, real, what is their real truth? You know, when I went to Vietnam with Billy Wah, I mean, so much of it was the details are just, you know, every detail, right? I mean, starting with the fact that he showed up at my house with a giant suitcase and a bunch of clothes, you know, dry cleaning pressed clothes in plastic hangers, carrying them.

I'm talking like real, real, what is their real truth? You know, when I went to Vietnam with Billy Wah, I mean, so much of it was the details are just, you know, every detail, right? I mean, starting with the fact that he showed up at my house with a giant suitcase and a bunch of clothes, you know, dry cleaning pressed clothes in plastic hangers, carrying them.

I'm talking like real, real, what is their real truth? You know, when I went to Vietnam with Billy Wah, I mean, so much of it was the details are just, you know, every detail, right? I mean, starting with the fact that he showed up at my house with a giant suitcase and a bunch of clothes, you know, dry cleaning pressed clothes in plastic hangers, carrying them.

I'm like, Billy, we're going to Vietnam and we're going back into the jungle to find the Oscar VIII battle site. Like, what? Are you, what are you carrying, right? And he got really mad at me, not like anyone correcting him. And I got my husband on the job, like, Kevin, you got to sort this out, right? And what transpired was that Billy Wall had never taken a trip for personal reasons.

I'm like, Billy, we're going to Vietnam and we're going back into the jungle to find the Oscar VIII battle site. Like, what? Are you, what are you carrying, right? And he got really mad at me, not like anyone correcting him. And I got my husband on the job, like, Kevin, you got to sort this out, right? And what transpired was that Billy Wall had never taken a trip for personal reasons.

I'm like, Billy, we're going to Vietnam and we're going back into the jungle to find the Oscar VIII battle site. Like, what? Are you, what are you carrying, right? And he got really mad at me, not like anyone correcting him. And I got my husband on the job, like, Kevin, you got to sort this out, right? And what transpired was that Billy Wall had never taken a trip for personal reasons.

He operated, I think, in 62 countries every single time for the CIA. And it would go like this, Billy, go to there and get to there, right? And that's what he would do. When he arrived, whatever he needed, he would just get. Mm-hmm. you know, it's not a fashion trip, right? So he had no idea how to pack for an overseas trip.