Annie Jacobsen

Right.

But the second part of Eisenhower's speech is important to me and it's why I get people to talk to me in my books because he says there's an antidote to the military-industrial complex and that is an alert and knowledgeable citizenry.

Which is in essence what we're doing now by talking about this.

It's what you do on your podcast.

By having an alert and knowledgeable citizenry.

And the word alert I think means engaged.

You have to be able to talk to people.

in a way that they can, oh, wow, that's interesting.

Well, I don't understand how that works.

How does that work?

And have these conversations.

So in that regard, I would say that's a positive sign in the right direction.

I think people are much more open to having an opinion about all of this than they were in, say, the 1950s.

But there's a balance because now opinion somehow seems to be taking over the Department of Facts in many regards.

Well, it's also that, I mean, Joe, I do not write about politics.

I just don't talk about, I talk about POTUS, the president of the United States.

And I talk about moves that certain presidents made.

But I'm amazed at how much time is spent talking about these two individuals.

And their families and what they ate for breakfast that I find, you know, at least the Taylor Swift of it is like slightly, you know, entertaining or uplifting.

But the the way in which America seems to me have almost become like, you know, the way that the UK used to be obsessed with the royal family.