Annie Jacobsen

the first man to fly over the Soviet Union in a U-2, gathered all this intelligence, prevented wars. Later, I wrote a book about the CIA's paramilitary, surprise, kill, vanish. So like, just when I was thinking, wow, the CIA is doing all this amazing, you know, non-kinetic activity with aerial reconnaissance, then you learn about their kill programs, and that's a whole different set of issues.

the first man to fly over the Soviet Union in a U-2, gathered all this intelligence, prevented wars. Later, I wrote a book about the CIA's paramilitary, surprise, kill, vanish. So like, just when I was thinking, wow, the CIA is doing all this amazing, you know, non-kinetic activity with aerial reconnaissance, then you learn about their kill programs, and that's a whole different set of issues.

the first man to fly over the Soviet Union in a U-2, gathered all this intelligence, prevented wars. Later, I wrote a book about the CIA's paramilitary, surprise, kill, vanish. So like, just when I was thinking, wow, the CIA is doing all this amazing, you know, non-kinetic activity with aerial reconnaissance, then you learn about their kill programs, and that's a whole different set of issues.

I mean, I work with sources to report my books. And so put yourself in my shoes, right? I... interview for dozens or hundreds of hours, my primary sources. In the case of the Surprise Kill Vanish book, I traveled with Billy Waugh, the longest-serving CIA operator, back to the scene of the crime, you know, back to the battle. We went to Hanoi. We went to Havana. And you really get to know someone.

I mean, I work with sources to report my books. And so put yourself in my shoes, right? I... interview for dozens or hundreds of hours, my primary sources. In the case of the Surprise Kill Vanish book, I traveled with Billy Waugh, the longest-serving CIA operator, back to the scene of the crime, you know, back to the battle. We went to Hanoi. We went to Havana. And you really get to know someone.

I mean, I work with sources to report my books. And so put yourself in my shoes, right? I... interview for dozens or hundreds of hours, my primary sources. In the case of the Surprise Kill Vanish book, I traveled with Billy Waugh, the longest-serving CIA operator, back to the scene of the crime, you know, back to the battle. We went to Hanoi. We went to Havana. And you really get to know someone.

And that's when I say conflicting. You know, I work with sources on a real trust basis, right? And sometimes people will tell me things. They'll say, Annie, this is off the record. This is for you to know about me. On deep background because I want you to know who I am. And that's powerful. And a lot of times it's personal, right? It's personal. It's about their personal life.

And that's when I say conflicting. You know, I work with sources on a real trust basis, right? And sometimes people will tell me things. They'll say, Annie, this is off the record. This is for you to know about me. On deep background because I want you to know who I am. And that's powerful. And a lot of times it's personal, right? It's personal. It's about their personal life.

And that's when I say conflicting. You know, I work with sources on a real trust basis, right? And sometimes people will tell me things. They'll say, Annie, this is off the record. This is for you to know about me. On deep background because I want you to know who I am. And that's powerful. And a lot of times it's personal, right? It's personal. It's about their personal life.

And they don't want that. And it isn't apropos to what I'm writing about. But I need to know that. And that's where it gets conflicted because you, in a good way, because you realize where we're all such creatures of our personal lives, right? So you have a professional life where your national security are in your hands. I don't know what that is like.

And they don't want that. And it isn't apropos to what I'm writing about. But I need to know that. And that's where it gets conflicted because you, in a good way, because you realize where we're all such creatures of our personal lives, right? So you have a professional life where your national security are in your hands. I don't know what that is like.

And they don't want that. And it isn't apropos to what I'm writing about. But I need to know that. And that's where it gets conflicted because you, in a good way, because you realize where we're all such creatures of our personal lives, right? So you have a professional life where your national security are in your hands. I don't know what that is like.

I think willingness... we were talking about trust earlier, like you have to trust that there's, I have to trust that there's a reason I find myself in a certain situation, right? Otherwise it would just be a constant, you know, doubt paradox, right? Why am I here? What am I doing? And so I trust that I'm going to learn something of value. And so I'm willing to listen.

I think willingness... we were talking about trust earlier, like you have to trust that there's, I have to trust that there's a reason I find myself in a certain situation, right? Otherwise it would just be a constant, you know, doubt paradox, right? Why am I here? What am I doing? And so I trust that I'm going to learn something of value. And so I'm willing to listen.

I think willingness... we were talking about trust earlier, like you have to trust that there's, I have to trust that there's a reason I find myself in a certain situation, right? Otherwise it would just be a constant, you know, doubt paradox, right? Why am I here? What am I doing? And so I trust that I'm going to learn something of value. And so I'm willing to listen.

I really am willing to listen, right? And so far, it's always proven, you know, the expectations I might have going into something are dwarfed by the outcome. because people are so interesting. And because the people that I interview, because I write about war and weapons and national security and government secrets, and the people I interview are at the heart of all of this.

I really am willing to listen, right? And so far, it's always proven, you know, the expectations I might have going into something are dwarfed by the outcome. because people are so interesting. And because the people that I interview, because I write about war and weapons and national security and government secrets, and the people I interview are at the heart of all of this.

I really am willing to listen, right? And so far, it's always proven, you know, the expectations I might have going into something are dwarfed by the outcome. because people are so interesting. And because the people that I interview, because I write about war and weapons and national security and government secrets, and the people I interview are at the heart of all of this.

I mean, they are really capable people, intellectually brilliant, physically capable. They go so far out on the limb to do their jobs. And by the way, the reason they're talking to me is because they're still alive. And so many of their colleagues are dead. So it gives them also a wisdom about, you know, life, about sacrifice, not in cliched sort of nationalistic, jingoistic terms whatsoever.

I mean, they are really capable people, intellectually brilliant, physically capable. They go so far out on the limb to do their jobs. And by the way, the reason they're talking to me is because they're still alive. And so many of their colleagues are dead. So it gives them also a wisdom about, you know, life, about sacrifice, not in cliched sort of nationalistic, jingoistic terms whatsoever.