Anushka Asthana

And so, in a way, and maybe I should have said this in the governing chapter, when I knew already that people were getting frustrated with Sue Gray, perhaps we could have predicted that she wouldn't last 100 days. But most people would give your chief of staff longer than that, wouldn't they?

And so, in a way, and maybe I should have said this in the governing chapter, when I knew already that people were getting frustrated with Sue Gray, perhaps we could have predicted that she wouldn't last 100 days. But most people would give your chief of staff longer than that, wouldn't they?

I mean, it is a funny thing, isn't it? Because I looked at the definition of ruthless. I mean, it means being very cruel, basically. Right. And in the kind of pursuit of what you think needs to happen. I think Keir Starmer... wouldn't complain about being called ruthless. In fact, I asked him once.

I mean, it is a funny thing, isn't it? Because I looked at the definition of ruthless. I mean, it means being very cruel, basically. Right. And in the kind of pursuit of what you think needs to happen. I think Keir Starmer... wouldn't complain about being called ruthless. In fact, I asked him once.

I said to him after he'd done this big speech to party conference and it was clear that the Labour Party had changed and was more in his vision.

I said to him after he'd done this big speech to party conference and it was clear that the Labour Party had changed and was more in his vision.

Yeah, yeah. Basically, I was making a documentary on him and they were like, if you wait here, he'll come out and you can speak to him with his wife, Vic. And I was standing next to a big set of bins in the glamour of TV. Out he came and talked to me and I said to him, you've been really ruthless. And he said yes, without a moment's hesitation, because he felt that he needed to be ruthless.

Yeah, yeah. Basically, I was making a documentary on him and they were like, if you wait here, he'll come out and you can speak to him with his wife, Vic. And I was standing next to a big set of bins in the glamour of TV. Out he came and talked to me and I said to him, you've been really ruthless. And he said yes, without a moment's hesitation, because he felt that he needed to be ruthless.

Now, do you have to be ruthless to be a political leader? One person very close to Rishi Sunak argued that one of the things they thought went wrong for him... And they use the C word, which I would never use and I strongly disapprove of. So I won't use it here.

Now, do you have to be ruthless to be a political leader? One person very close to Rishi Sunak argued that one of the things they thought went wrong for him... And they use the C word, which I would never use and I strongly disapprove of. So I won't use it here.

We're not using that word. No, no, no. Not using that word. I don't approve of that word on so many levels, but that's another podcast. But this person said, basically, to be prime minister, you need to be a bit of a C word. And they thought Rishi Sunak. Was not. I mean, do you? I like to think that you could be kind and generous and, you know, collaborative and still be prime minister.

We're not using that word. No, no, no. Not using that word. I don't approve of that word on so many levels, but that's another podcast. But this person said, basically, to be prime minister, you need to be a bit of a C word. And they thought Rishi Sunak. Was not. I mean, do you? I like to think that you could be kind and generous and, you know, collaborative and still be prime minister.

I don't think he would say he was going to be ruthless in terms of trying to support people.

I don't think he would say he was going to be ruthless in terms of trying to support people.

I think he believes that if you wanted to win power for the Labour Party, and look, there are people on the left who strongly disagree with this, and I spoke to them for the book as well, but he believed that the only way to put the Labour Party in the service of working people, which is obviously what he always says, and this is the thing that I think Morgan McSweeney is obsessed with, is to be quite ruthless in terms of the party operation.

I think he believes that if you wanted to win power for the Labour Party, and look, there are people on the left who strongly disagree with this, and I spoke to them for the book as well, but he believed that the only way to put the Labour Party in the service of working people, which is obviously what he always says, and this is the thing that I think Morgan McSweeney is obsessed with, is to be quite ruthless in terms of the party operation.

And so I think he's got to a point where If Downing Street felt dysfunctional, he is ready to act immediately because he thinks that's what it takes to then serve people. Now, on the side of that, they've got themselves into a load of trouble, which I think leads to the depiction or the perception that they're not always thinking about working people.

And so I think he's got to a point where If Downing Street felt dysfunctional, he is ready to act immediately because he thinks that's what it takes to then serve people. Now, on the side of that, they've got themselves into a load of trouble, which I think leads to the depiction or the perception that they're not always thinking about working people.

But I don't think that necessarily is to do with his ruthlessness.

But I don't think that necessarily is to do with his ruthlessness.