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Arlene Bynon

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Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Olson was serving 11 concurrent life sentences, one for each murder he confessed to. But I knew the parents were still waiting to know for certain, to lay their kids to rest in a way that brought peace and closure. And if there was a chance I could find something new, I had to try, no matter how Olson tried to play games and spin lines.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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If I wanted to continue these calls, I had to keep them secret. But I did confide in someone, a friend and mentor who wanted to help. I've asked Peter Worthington to join us today, and he's here. Oh, okay. And he's talking with us on the line. I think all three of us can talk. Hello, Peter.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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How are you doing?

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Peter Worthington is, of course, Nat's grandpa, Pete.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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However I had explained it to myself, I knew that what I was doing, when it eventually came out, would be met with criticism. Olson had been banned from talking to the media by a gag order, imposed after he'd sent letters detailing his crimes to the families of the victims. I'd be accused of giving him a platform and the attention he desperately craved.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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So I wanted cover, and legendary journalist Peter Worthington, he would do.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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There are parts of Olson's story he wouldn't tell us on these early calls. Okay, we have to give up the studio now.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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But soon, Olson was calling us weekly.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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It started to feel, well, not normal, but certainly routine. Sometimes he would call me just to tell me about what he was watching.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Or to pretend he was a radio DJ.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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He would call me at work. Or at home. He called me on Christmas. He knew no boundaries.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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It was like we were lying in wait, waiting for Olson to tell us what we really wanted to know. For the first year, Peter and I made requests to see Olson in prison, but were turned down. But we felt we needed to see him in person. So we found another way in.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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We told prison officials we were writing a book about Olson, and if we couldn't talk to him, could we just get a tour of where he was being held It worked. On February 19th, 1991, Peter and I drove the three hours from Toronto to visit Olson in prison. As we approached, I looked up at the imposing walls of Kingston Penitentiary. Inside were some of the most violent men in the country.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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I was nervous. Peter could tell that I was worried and told me I was right to be unnerved, a young woman entering a maximum security men's prison. But this was my choice. I knew I needed to see him at least once, inside the prison walls he was calling me from. And then, almost immediately, as Peter and I stepped into the foyer of the penitentiary, There was Olsen.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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He had guards on either side of him, hands cuffed, being walked back to his cell after a haircut. He looked up and saw me. We locked eyes. He had no idea we were coming. Olsen stopped and stared at us as he was taken back to his cell. And then he turned and winked at me. Peter and I continued our interview with the warden without skipping a beat. We couldn't let on that Olsen knew us.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Before we left, I asked, could I just walk down the middle of the cell block where he was being held? The warden agreed. Peter stayed behind and I started walking. I could feel eyes on me, watching me as I passed. And then, I got to Olsen's cell.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Peter and I weren't allowed to record inside the prison, but we started as soon as we began driving away.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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It was the only time I ever saw Olson in person. and I could easily imagine him being a killer. I'd never forgotten him looking at me from his cell, hands high up on the bars. His face was in darkness, but backlit from the light coming in from the tiny window to the rear. He was calm until he wasn't. As I walked away, he started calling my name. Arlene. Arlene. Arlene.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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A nearby prisoner yelled, it's Clifford's girlfriend. The angry warden pulled me away as the men yelled from their cells, trying to get us out of the area as fast as possible. As catcalls echoed off the thick concrete walls, it was chaos. It's been more than three decades since that moment, and it still horrifies me.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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In the years that followed, I would report what I could from what Olson told me, until eventually I wasn't able to listen to him any longer.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Peter would continue speaking to him long after I stopped, over a decade more. And he would write books and articles about his relationship with Olson. Somehow I never could, but still I kept everything. The dozens, maybe hundreds of letters Olson sent me. The interrogation transcripts and psychiatric reports. The horrific journals where Olson detailed his crimes.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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And the tapes, the recordings of our hundreds of calls. It all lived in boxes that I carried with me from house to house wherever I moved. I think I always knew someday I'd return to this story. After Peter's death, I thought I would have to do it alone. Until a message in 2019 came. Nat, I still remember when I got that message from you.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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And I don't think you had any idea at what time you were messaging me. You didn't know I'd yanked up the boxes. And I had, and there was this message from Peter's grandson. It was a moment.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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And for me, for you to send me the message, it was just so full circle on the story, you know. And as you know, I was very clear with you. This thing has been twisting and turning inside me for such a long time. And this whole return to the partnership I had with your granddad, I was about your age and he was about my age.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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And he's not here anymore, and here we are, and both of us picking up this story again. I feel the ghost of Peter in this.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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I do, and that's one of the things that sticks out at me. But I also remember when everyone knew the name Clifford Woolso. And when you said it, you could see their face twist. It was a name that was completely connected with evil in this country. But yet now when I look at it, it is incredible that that cash-for-bodies deal happened. and that we forgot about it.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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The kind of deal the Canadian police made with him, I don't think it had ever been done before or ever since. Some would say it was unconscionable. Others would say it was the only way to get him. What it all meant was the extent of Olsen's crimes were never fully investigated. So we're going back to the Olsen tapes, opening boxes I sealed over 30 years ago.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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I reported on the story then, and I'll report on it now. And try, as best I can, to find the answers that so many are still seeking. About the RCMP. About Clifford Olsen. and perhaps most importantly, about his victims. To do that, we need to talk to the family and friends whose lives were shattered all those years ago.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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You say you have nothing to lose, so are you going to kill again?

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Okay, so Peter's here now, so we can both talk.

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Hello, Peter.

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No, he's here.

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Yeah, I didn't tell him that, but you might as well. You want to repeat it?

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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CHFI Radio. Yes, Clifford Olson's calling. Will you accept the charge? Yes, I will. Thank you.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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Senator are you now? Right.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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I had to go to the doctors.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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And during this two and a half years, you have never got angry at Peter, but you get angry at me. I mean, you and I have had arguments. You've hung up on me. You've yelled at me. You've said very nasty things about me behind my back.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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You've called me a bitch.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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And I don't think I am a bitch. I think that I'm just very clear, that's all.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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You think it's because I'm frightened?

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Not frightened, no.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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And I'm Arlene Bynum. This is Episode 1, The Olsen Tapes.

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This is me about 35 years ago. I was hosting one of Toronto's most popular afternoon radio news programs. I got to do it all on this job, reporting hard news, producing documentaries, interviewing celebrities and politicians. But this week, in 1989, I took listeners deep into the case of Ted Bundy.

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It was about 10 years after his trial, but the story still fascinated me.

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I saw myself in his victims, and I was desperate to learn what could make ordinary men monsters. In Bundy's case, there was a journalist who'd been able to ask the question to Bundy himself. I'd like to welcome to Chronicle Stephen Michaud. Good afternoon.

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Stephen Michaud had been granted extensive access to Bundy over months. He was able to extract information from Bundy that police never were. His interviews led to some of the only insight the public really had into Bundy's crimes, into this new kind of killer.

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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By this time, serial killers had become sort of a beat for me. I interviewed experts, I learned what I could of the research that existed back then, and it all led to me being interviewed about Bundy on national TV. What I didn't know then was that the show was playing on a TV in Kingston Penitentiary, a maximum security prison home to Canada's most notorious criminals.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Soon after the show aired, I got a letter. It was really a taunt. It read, It was signed, Clifford Robert Olson. Nearly a decade earlier, Olson was one of the first to get the label of serial killer in Canada. From the end of 1980 to the summer of 1981, Olson had abducted, raped and killed 11 young people in the province of British Columbia.

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As news broke of his crimes, Canadians grappled with the graphic details, with the violence he inflicted against children.

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I didn't respond to Olson's letter right away. I'd done enough reporting on psychopathic killers to know it would only feed his ego. And I didn't want to give him that. This man had murdered children. And now he was reaching out to me from prison. But the case of Clifford Olson stayed with me. A case that I knew there was more to.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Because ten years after his arrest, there were still so many questions left unanswered. What drove him to kill? Could he have been stopped? And what dark secrets did he still carry? So a week later, I wrote back to Olson. What is your story?

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S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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I was stunned when I got that first call. It was about a month after I responded to Olson's letter, but I knew he was only allowed to talk to his lawyers from prison, not the media.

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Yeah, I'm not, no. No, you get what I'm getting at? I'm not doing a story this week on or anything.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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Are you supposed to call the media? You're obviously allowed telephone calls.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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For whatever reason, Olsen had chosen me. And from the start, I knew I wanted to understand why he did what he did.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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You know, we talked about sort of living with yourself. We all have to live with ourselves and realize what we've done and come to grips with it.

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As I listen to these tapes, I feel right there, back in the moment. I'm young, in my mid-twenties, and hungry, brimming with confidence, thinking if I could just ask the right questions the right way, I would understand what made him the way he was. Over time, I would learn a lot about him. What did the psychiatrist call you?

Sea of Lies from Uncover

S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer

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They say you're normal.

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What psychiatrists actually found was that Olson was a severe psychopath. One doctor put it this way. Even people who have met individuals who are called psychopathic or antisocial cannot bring themselves to believe that there may be individuals of this gross nature. It's too impossible to accept.

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I don't know. I mean, I don't. I'm not a psychiatrist.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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I'm a reporter. As a reporter, these calls were about more than learning about Olson himself. I hoped I could do something that the police couldn't. I hoped I could get more information out of him. Because like many families in the B.C. area where he prowled, I believe there were more than 11 victims. The authorities had long closed the case. They wanted it shut.

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S33 Trailer | Calls From a Killer

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This is a CBC Podcast. I was a young journalist when Clifford Olsen first called me. I'm not doing this. Are you supposed to call the media?

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S33 Trailer | Calls From a Killer

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For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

The hidden story of a notorious serial killer — and his secret calls from behind bars

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I was desperate to understand why he did what he did.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

The hidden story of a notorious serial killer — and his secret calls from behind bars

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For 30 years, these recordings have been sealed away. Secrets kept in boxes in my basement. But it's time to unearth the tapes. Because I believe that the police could have stopped him sooner.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

The hidden story of a notorious serial killer — and his secret calls from behind bars

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And I believe that there were more victims. So when you went to the police, how long did it take for them to follow up after you said those things to them?

Sea of Lies from Uncover

The hidden story of a notorious serial killer — and his secret calls from behind bars

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I'm Arlene Bynum. From CBC's Uncover, calls from a killer. Clifford Olsen's calling. Will you accept the charge? Yes, I will. Coming soon, wherever you get your podcasts.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

The hidden story of a notorious serial killer — and his secret calls from behind bars

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Yes. I was a young journalist when Clifford Olson first called me. I'm not doing this... Are you supposed to call the media?

Sea of Lies from Uncover

The hidden story of a notorious serial killer — and his secret calls from behind bars

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A reporter getting secret phone calls from Canada's most notorious serial killer. He was serving a life sentence for murdering 11 children. His oldest victim, 18. The youngest, 9. Captured only after the police offered him a shocking deal. Cash for bodies.

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S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer

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Bridget Cosma is Judy's sister. She talked to us from her home in Langley, B.C.

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S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer

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When Judy didn't show up to her shift at McDonald's and come home as expected, it was Bridget, seven years her senior, who went out on a frantic search.

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When the Cosmas tried to report Judy missing to their local RCMP detachment, they received the customary response. Nothing could be done before 48 hours had passed, which infuriates Bridget still.

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After her body was found, did you know, I mean, when the police came to tell you about it, did they tell you she was murdered then? Good question.

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Was that you? Did you go?

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Like other families we've spoken to, the Cosmas would later piece together how their loved one became acquainted with Olson. Judy had previously attended a Christmas party thrown by a friend's family, and there she'd met Olson. By this time, he was already involved with his soon-to-be wife, Joan. But he was there on a date because he was cheating with a relative of Judy's friend.

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By the next afternoon, Olsen had picked up 17-year-old Louise Chartrand as she was waiting to start her shift at a restaurant in Maple Ridge, B.C. She would be his last victim, his 11th confirmed, before his perverse luck ran out.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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It was August 12th at night. Olsen had been under now constant surveillance for five days when he was observed picking up two young female hitchhikers. The Mounties followed his car until he pulled over and headed with the girls into a wooded area on Vancouver Island. Knowing the likely fate awaiting the hitchhikers, they couldn't risk waiting to see what happened. They grabbed Olson.

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While searching his car, in his glove box, they found a notebook. Inside the cover was written Judy Cosma's name.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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For the next week, the RCMP interrogated Olson intensively. After that, his name was formally tied to the murders, and it exploded in the media.

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John's network, BCTV, naturally had blanket coverage.

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For the first time, the RCMP confirmed they were looking at only one man. One suspect in all the cases.

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What the police weren't divulging was that their case on Olson was weak. Other than Judy's name in a notebook found in the car, the RCMP had very little physical evidence to tie him to all the murders. If Olson walked again, it would be a grave humiliation. The Mounties and prosecutors could forge ahead with what they had on Olson for Judy's murder, with maybe a slim chance of conviction.

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Or they could keep and press Olson for as long and as far as the law would allow, to see if he would break. But in my opinion, they were on the back foot. Later, Peter and I pored over the interrogation transcripts. Olsen is combative, snapping back at Corporal Fred Maley as accusations mount. You've got your ass up against the wall, Maley tells Olsen.

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Olsen denies and dismisses, but you can tell that he knows. This time, he might be caught for good. It's also clear that the investigators didn't really employ any special tactics in dealing with a psychopathic serial killer. They were talking to him like he'd robbed a bank, which makes sense given the time. South of the border, there was a gush of research on serial killers.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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The FBI's Behavioral Science Unit had recently completed their database of serial offenders. But this new science of profiling probably hadn't made it yet to the B.C. detachments of the RCMP. Apart from the number of victims, 11 confirmed, the Mounties didn't appear to approach Olson much differently from a garden-variety criminal.

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Olson confounded these investigators, but in the end, it was Olson who gave them an avenue out.

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This is what he proposed. The RCMP would pay Olson $30,000 for evidence on the four bodies they'd found before his arrest. And for each murder scene he identified, or body he could help them locate, he would receive an additional $10,000. A full confession was a given.

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Someone who was consulted, to my shock, was reporter John Daly.

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With the approval of the province's attorney general, the cash for bodies deal came to be. The money was to be put in a trust for his wife Joan and baby son. But the way he'd talk about the deal with me during our phone calls, Olson saw the deal as a triumph for himself. Only himself.

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In a gesture of either giddiness that he'd pulled this off or to embarrass the police further, he provided details about one additional murder as a freebie.

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And we think we know why. The RCMP hoped the cash-for-bodies deal would be seen as something to be celebrated. In reality, the deal caused such outrage and damage that some in this country have never healed and never will.

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What kind of an explosion did it make, do you remember?

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That's next time on Calls from a Killer. Calls from a Killer was written and produced by me, Arlene Bynum, Nathaniel Frum, and senior producers Ashley Mack and Andrew Friesen. Mixing and sound design by Evan Kelly. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Additional audio from BCTV. Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager.

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And Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. Tune in next week for an all-new episode of Calls from a Killer from CBC's Uncover. Or you can binge the whole series by subscribing to our True Crime Premium channel on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description.

Sea of Lies from Uncover

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And I'm Arlene Bynum. This is Episode 3, The Mounties Always Get Their Man. It's July 1981, and Corporal Les Forsythe and a fellow Mountie from the Burnaby RCMP detachment visit Olson's apartment. If they were going to place a trail on him, they needed to confirm he actually lived there. His neighbors tell them he'd left town on a vacation down the west coast of California.

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They don't know when he'd be back. At this time, the RCMP had finally identified Olson as a possible suspect in the disappearance of children from the area, even if he was just one in a long list of others. Various detachments now knew his name.

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Glenn Woods is a former RCMP investigator who now operates an investigative consulting firm in Vancouver. He worked on the Olson case back in 1981, but admits he was fairly low in the chain of command.

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Simon Partington was the nine-year-old boy who'd gone missing only weeks before.

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The following episode contains descriptions of violence and sexual assault. Please take care when listening.

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During that time in the investigation, there was a name that cropped up, Clifford Olson. When did you first hear that name?

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Looking back, many think that's why the RCMP took so long to suspect Olson.

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Ian Mulgrew is retired now, but he spent 40-plus years as a journalist, more than half that time with the Vancouver Sun newspaper. And in the years he was working as a journalist, the term serial killer was used far less than it is today. The public didn't have the words to describe someone like Olson.

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He makes the point that in the early 80s, it took the community longer to come to what now seems like an obvious conclusion.

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688.923

On July 22, 1981, approximately three weeks after police made Olson a suspect, he, his wife Joan, and their infant son returned from a vacation in California. They were back in B.C. and back on the radar of the RCMP. That same day, Corporal Ed Drozda of the Serious Crimes Unit of the Mounties also came back from vacation.

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Assigned to the Olson case, he met up with a detective named Dennis Tarr from the local police service of the city of Delta, close to Vancouver. Tarr was the one who would inch the RCMP closer to seeing Olson as their primary suspect.

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John Daly, who was a reporter for the BCTV news station.

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Despite these rising suspicions, the RCMP and other police forces weren't able to act faster than Olson. He's brazenly abducting and murdering at alarming speed. Seven children are now dead. And in the last week of July alone, he murders his final four victims. On the morning of July 23rd, Olson spotted 15-year-old Raymond King Jr. waiting for a bus in New Westminster.

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815.04

King had been out looking for a summer job to make some cash. He never made it home. On the night King disappeared, Detective Tarr paid Olson a visit.

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Yeah. Tarr probed a bit about what more Olson knew about the disappearances and murders, asking specifically about the nine-year-old Simon Partington. Olson was reportedly relaxed, playing with his baby son as they talked. Tarr left without anything substantial. The RCMP did not put Olson under surveillance, not before Raymond King Jr. and not afterwards.

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The very next day, an 18-year-old West German tourist named Sigrun Arnd is hanging out at the Caribou, a hotel and pub along the highway. She meets a man with dark curly hair who offers her a ride.

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And the encounter follows a well-worn pattern. Olsen picks her up and drives her to a boggy area outside of Richmond, the same place he took Simon Partington.