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Arthur Kroeber

👤 Speaker
1260 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

I guess my view on this is that this local government land-based financing model was actually a pretty smart thing to do initially.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

And for a decade or so, it worked quite well.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

Local governments were sitting on a lot of these land assets.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

It was perfectly – the land assets originally were undervalued quite substantially.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

And so it made sense for the local governments essentially to try and capitalize some of the future value of land.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

of these things and use them to finance infrastructure development.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

This was not sort of a rogue policy that local governments came up with on their own.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

It was actually sponsored by the central government and the China Development Bank back in the early 2000s, which was

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

Grappling with the problem that China at that point had a severe shortage of housing and infrastructure of all kinds including urban infrastructure and the question is like we need a lot more of this stuff.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

How do we build it?

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

How do we finance it?

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

And they realized, oh, actually as we build this stuff out, the values of this land are going to skyrocket.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

So let's, you know, essentially take some financing against that future land price appreciation and use that to build the infrastructure that makes everything possible.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

And if you look at the first few cases of where this was done in the early 2000s, they had these estimates of what the land would ultimately be worth that seemed ridiculous and astronomical at the time.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

they were in fact way too low.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

They were way, way conservative on what the actual land price appreciation would be.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

So you had a period of about eight or nine years where essentially the development banks, the state-run development banks, were doing this in a fairly controlled way, very, very successfully.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

And then what happened was that after the 2008 financial crisis, the government said, oh, we just have to spend a lot of money

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

to gin up growth because there's been this global economic catastrophe.

Dwarkesh Podcast
China’s Manufacturing Dominance: State Directives & Ruthless Competition — Arthur Kroeber

And so they did a massive cash infusion into the banks and to the state-owned enterprises that said, spend, spend, spend, and basically all infrastructure is good infrastructure.