Arthur Kroeber

It doesn't place strong value on having respectful communications with anyone in the world, frankly.

And then when you compound this with the paranoia about China, then it just creates more – I don't want to say paranoia.

That's too loaded a term.

But the suspicion, the fear, the distrust of China that exists –

it's very hard to see how you get it.

So I agree with you that we need something like that.

I'm kind of pessimistic that we'll get there anytime soon, unfortunately.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

How do you do that?

Right.

You can't.

It is really big.

It seems like a very banal observation, and yet I keep coming back to it as one of the fundamental facts that continues to be underestimated about China is just how big it is geographically and in terms of population.

But yeah, so I mean the question there is like, okay, so what is the value of these things?

Well, okay, so it's a fabulous book.

I'm very proud of it.

And a few thousand people read it, right?

And at any given moment over the last 15, 20 years, there have been north of 300,000 Chinese students in the United States, right?

And so I don't know what the total number is over time, but it is quite a large number, right?