Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Pricing

Ashley Mason

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
740 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

So for folks who have trouble falling asleep at the start of the night, we want to make sure their hands or feet are warm enough and that they've dealt with the thoughts and the worries during the day and that they're not trying to go to sleep at nine o'clock when their body doesn't want to go to sleep until 11. A lot of people just think, I need to have this much time in bed each night.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

So for folks who have trouble falling asleep at the start of the night, we want to make sure their hands or feet are warm enough and that they've dealt with the thoughts and the worries during the day and that they're not trying to go to sleep at nine o'clock when their body doesn't want to go to sleep until 11. A lot of people just think, I need to have this much time in bed each night.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

And they get into bed and they struggle for two hours before their body actually wants to go to sleep. So a major part of CBTI is aligning when your body can produce sleep with when you're in your bed.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

And they get into bed and they struggle for two hours before their body actually wants to go to sleep. So a major part of CBTI is aligning when your body can produce sleep with when you're in your bed.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

I should have done that first. Cognitive behavioral therapy. My favorite way to think about this is in a triangle. We have thoughts, we have feelings and we have behaviors. You can think about this triangle as having these three pieces that are all connected and cognitive and behavioral therapies or cognitive behavioral therapies.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

I should have done that first. Cognitive behavioral therapy. My favorite way to think about this is in a triangle. We have thoughts, we have feelings and we have behaviors. You can think about this triangle as having these three pieces that are all connected and cognitive and behavioral therapies or cognitive behavioral therapies.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

Generally, we'll focus on one intervening on this process between thoughts, feelings, and behavior, thoughts, feelings, and behavior on one of these sides of the triangle. So let me just spell out a quick example process. So let's say we have a patient with type 2 diabetes who has the thought, I'm never going to be able to get my blood sugar under control.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

Generally, we'll focus on one intervening on this process between thoughts, feelings, and behavior, thoughts, feelings, and behavior on one of these sides of the triangle. So let me just spell out a quick example process. So let's say we have a patient with type 2 diabetes who has the thought, I'm never going to be able to get my blood sugar under control.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

I'm never going to be able to manage this. I'm not going to be able to do this. When a person has those thoughts, how do they feel? Crummy. Feel bad about themselves. When people feel bad about themselves, what do they do? Eat some chocolate cake. Eat some chocolate cake. What does that do? That reinforces the thought, I'm never going to be able to do this.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

I'm never going to be able to manage this. I'm not going to be able to do this. When a person has those thoughts, how do they feel? Crummy. Feel bad about themselves. When people feel bad about themselves, what do they do? Eat some chocolate cake. Eat some chocolate cake. What does that do? That reinforces the thought, I'm never going to be able to do this.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

So we've got this pattern of thoughts, feelings, behavior on repeat. Cognitive behavioral therapies will choose where to intervene on a process in that triangle. Cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, for example, is really focused on the area between thoughts and feelings in many ways, because people will have a lot of thoughts. I can't sleep. I'm never going to be a good sleeper.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

So we've got this pattern of thoughts, feelings, behavior on repeat. Cognitive behavioral therapies will choose where to intervene on a process in that triangle. Cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, for example, is really focused on the area between thoughts and feelings in many ways, because people will have a lot of thoughts. I can't sleep. I'm never going to be a good sleeper.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

If I don't sleep eight hours tonight, I'm going to lose my job, whatever. And then the big emotions that follow from that. We work on questioning a lot of those thoughts to then recalibrate the feelings that follow. Like, oh, if I don't sleep eight hours tonight, I won't feel great tomorrow, but I'll probably be okay at work.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

If I don't sleep eight hours tonight, I'm going to lose my job, whatever. And then the big emotions that follow from that. We work on questioning a lot of those thoughts to then recalibrate the feelings that follow. Like, oh, if I don't sleep eight hours tonight, I won't feel great tomorrow, but I'll probably be okay at work.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

The feeling is much smaller than, if I don't sleep eight hours tonight, I'm going to lose my job tomorrow. They're noticeably different. In terms of depression, an example that I like might be someone saying, oh, I'm really depressed now, but when I feel better, I'm going to take my grandkids to the movies. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take my grandkids to the movies.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

The feeling is much smaller than, if I don't sleep eight hours tonight, I'm going to lose my job tomorrow. They're noticeably different. In terms of depression, an example that I like might be someone saying, oh, I'm really depressed now, but when I feel better, I'm going to take my grandkids to the movies. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take my grandkids to the movies.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

I'm going to take them to the zoo. I'm going to do all these things. So as a therapist, what I might do is I'd have the patient write all of this huge long list of stuff they're going to do when they feel better. And then you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to get out their calendar with them and I'm going to say, all right, I don't care how you feel. We're scheduling all of these things.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

I'm going to take them to the zoo. I'm going to do all these things. So as a therapist, what I might do is I'd have the patient write all of this huge long list of stuff they're going to do when they feel better. And then you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to get out their calendar with them and I'm going to say, all right, I don't care how you feel. We're scheduling all of these things.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

So we're intervening on that behavior to thoughts line. So we're going to make them take the kids to the zoo. We're going to make them take the kids to the movies. And then the kids are going to have a great time and the patient's going to come back and say, oh, you know what? Pretty kick-ass grandma. Kids had a great time. This was pretty great.

The Peter Attia Drive
#341 - Overcoming insomnia: improving sleep hygiene and treating disordered sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia | Ashley Mason, Ph.D.

So we're intervening on that behavior to thoughts line. So we're going to make them take the kids to the zoo. We're going to make them take the kids to the movies. And then the kids are going to have a great time and the patient's going to come back and say, oh, you know what? Pretty kick-ass grandma. Kids had a great time. This was pretty great.