Azeem Azhar

I mean, I'm really glad that you've got here because that allows us to go back to the beginning of our discussion, which is that the canaries in the coal mine, the idea that entry-level jobs, particularly if they're AI exposed, are coming under pressure.

What's driving that is, to some extent, the risk lens that managers are taking from hiring the uncertain rather than doubling down on certain existing workers.

So let's now look at those entry level, the entry level workers, people who are graduating, they are now better off than they were earlier in our conversation, which is they know why they're not being hired.

They're not being hired because the hirer wants someone who's already got orchestration skills, aka is already a manager, and the hire is risk averse right now.

Given that, let's get practical.

What would need to change for those entry-level workers to now be suitable to be hired?

We know what the symptom is.

We've identified it collectively, the two of us, over the last 30 or 40 minutes.

What do they need to do?

I mean, great and not great, right?

So the great that you're being frank, not great, because that seems to be the situation.

I'll posit a couple of thoughts.

So one is this idea that...

through education or experience people need to develop the capabilities that demonstrate orchestration and perhaps some of those you can do even if you're interning because a large part of orchestration is being a good manager is asking good questions another part is asking bad questions another part is framing problems and thinking where resources might emerge so maybe there is a part which is to unbundle we've been talking about bundling and rebundling skill task bundles but

unbundling the tasks and capabilities that go into this idea of orchestration.

And some part of it may be prompt.

How do you prompt?

How do you context engineer?

And there may be other dynamics.

The bit that still seems gnarlier, how do you solve for that novelty risk anyway?