Barbara Berg

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything, with your host, Stephen Dubner.

This is Barbara speaking to you from Antarctica, and the weather is fine here today.

I wanted to say for the record that I have a background as a psychotherapist, so I know about confidentiality.

So even in 1984 or whatever year, we were very specific to ask him whether we did or did not have permission to reveal that he had taken psychedelics.

And he gave carte blanche permission.

You know, not everything that happened with him was about psychedelics.

I mean, we developed a much broader relationship with him.

But I remember the LSD session.

I thought it was so funny.

He was lying on the same couch staring at a banana for three hours, quiet as could be.

Debbie had trained him well.

He would just turn it once in a while.

And afterwards I asked him what was happening.

He said, very sincerely said, I don't know.

I was just looking at the banana.

I think one reason that he enjoyed being with us is because we were psychological, and I don't mean clinical or analytical, but because we were insight-oriented.

And I think that moved him, especially with regard to things like being able to talk about his grief with Arlene.

It was simply that he wasn't feeling well, so we thought, you know, bring them out to Mohammed.

I remember standing in the elevator, just keeping a really straight face while we're in this elevator full of people.

They seemed a little more reserved than we were.