Ben Rhodes
👤 SpeakerAppearances Over Time
Podcast Appearances
And I think it's reminding people.
Okay, good.
I think it's reminding people of like the absurdity of and the impermanence of people like Trump.
And I can tell you when we negotiated the deal, the normalization deal with Cuba, I went to the Vatican.
Vatican was kind of the guarantor of the deal.
We had to present it there.
Pretty good story.
I walked in, and we had to meet sequentially with the Secretary of State of the Vatican, who's kind of the number two over there, the cardinal.
And the Cubans go in first, and they go through this whole deal, and then I go in.
And the cardinal says, so you guys are normalizing relations, and you're reopening embassies, and he kind of goes through the deal.
And I was like, yeah, yeah.
And he looks at me, and he goes –
who are you?
Does John Kerry know about this?
I was like, I promise, I promise it's true.
But anyway.
He was not seeing the Chris Hayes show.
But what those people brought