Ben Rhodes

So it's a real dire humanitarian circumstance in Cuba right now.

And look, I would argue that morally and from the perspective of U.S.

interests, our approach was better.

I mean, there's much more to say about it, but like I'd argue that on the moral basis, but I also argue it on the human rights basis of I actually think that like if you ask Cubans and I don't mean Cuban-Americans in Miami, I mean Cubans in Cuba, they remember those two years under Obama as like the time they were hopeful for the future.

And now, you know, they're in hell.

Yeah, so I negotiated with Alejandro Castro, who's Raul's son, and now we're on to the third generation here.

Raulita's a grandson.

What's interesting to me about this, Tim, and I talk to people in Cuba and Miami, is that nobody quite knows what Trump wants because it's kind of like the JCPOA.

So in 2016, when I was still talking to Cubans, obviously we're in government, they said, oh, we're not worried about Trump because...

We know his people well.

They've been down here trying to build golf courses and hotels.

While Trump was a Republican nominee, the Trump Organization was in Cuba trying to build hotels and golf courses.

So they thought they could make that deal with him.

Ultimately, Trump decided – and you worked in Florida politics.

He ultimately decided these Bay of Pigs veterans down in Miami and Marco Rubio, I'm going to listen to those guys instead because they delivered some votes for me.

Now, if he wants a deal where it's basically what we were trying to do, they open up the economy.

But particularly, the oil in Cuba is real estate, right?

The northern coast, the Keys, the undeveloped beachfront properties.

People at Miami have been salivating over that for years.

The Cubans, I'm sure, would be willing to say, like, fine, we'll let the Miami Cubans come down here and develop this real estate.