Ben Rhodes

And then, Tommy, I said this to you, but for JD Vance to refer to visits that people make to Ukraine as propaganda tours was one of the most triggering things in many that were said today, because what people do when they go to Ukraine is they often visit Bucha, for instance, where there were war crimes committed, where innocent civilians were massacred, where children were killed.

And then, Tommy, I said this to you, but for JD Vance to refer to visits that people make to Ukraine as propaganda tours was one of the most triggering things in many that were said today, because what people do when they go to Ukraine is they often visit Bucha, for instance, where there were war crimes committed, where innocent civilians were massacred, where children were killed.

And to call that a propaganda tour is so beyond the pale It's essentially him calling the truth propaganda. When people go to Ukraine, what they see is the reality of a country that's been invaded and bombarded and had tens of thousands of children kidnapped and tens of thousands of people killed. And J.D. Vance calls that the propaganda. And it's it's up is down. It's black is white.

And to call that a propaganda tour is so beyond the pale It's essentially him calling the truth propaganda. When people go to Ukraine, what they see is the reality of a country that's been invaded and bombarded and had tens of thousands of children kidnapped and tens of thousands of people killed. And J.D. Vance calls that the propaganda. And it's it's up is down. It's black is white.

It's just 180 degrees wrong. And I agree with you, Tommy. It felt like J.D. Vance was setting a trap, like he was getting trying to provoke Zelensky to say something that would piss off Trump. Yeah. Which is a pretty fucking dark role for him to be playing.

It's just 180 degrees wrong. And I agree with you, Tommy. It felt like J.D. Vance was setting a trap, like he was getting trying to provoke Zelensky to say something that would piss off Trump. Yeah. Which is a pretty fucking dark role for him to be playing.

Yeah. And this context was entirely missing. They seem to be offended by Zelensky pointing out that his country was invaded by Putin. That seemed to offend Trump and J.D. Vance. And I think another piece of context here, Tommy, is Zelensky is a profoundly exhausted person. And you can see it on his face. You can see it on his face. I've heard this from some Europeans.

Yeah. And this context was entirely missing. They seem to be offended by Zelensky pointing out that his country was invaded by Putin. That seemed to offend Trump and J.D. Vance. And I think another piece of context here, Tommy, is Zelensky is a profoundly exhausted person. And you can see it on his face. You can see it on his face. I've heard this from some Europeans.

This guy probably barely sleeps at night. He has been besieged by the Trump administration, bullied into trying to sign this absurd deal for critical minerals. And he flies to Washington because he feels this thing slipping away from him, this thing being US support as kind of a Hail Mary.

This guy probably barely sleeps at night. He has been besieged by the Trump administration, bullied into trying to sign this absurd deal for critical minerals. And he flies to Washington because he feels this thing slipping away from him, this thing being US support as kind of a Hail Mary.

And then he sits down and they bring the cameras in and he just starts getting insulted to his face by people who can demonstrate no degree of empathy. I mean, like they don't even, not even a perfunctory, you know, tribute to what the people of Ukraine have done. And they insulted not just Zelensky, this is important, They insulted the Ukrainian people.

And then he sits down and they bring the cameras in and he just starts getting insulted to his face by people who can demonstrate no degree of empathy. I mean, like they don't even, not even a perfunctory, you know, tribute to what the people of Ukraine have done. And they insulted not just Zelensky, this is important, They insulted the Ukrainian people.

He said the only people you can get to fight are conscripts that you force to the front line. So that's insulting the troops. That's insulting the Ukrainians that have been fighting and saying they don't want to be there. They're only there because Zelensky made them go there. When in fact, Putin is the one that conscripts people. Putin is the one that did the mobilization.

He said the only people you can get to fight are conscripts that you force to the front line. So that's insulting the troops. That's insulting the Ukrainians that have been fighting and saying they don't want to be there. They're only there because Zelensky made them go there. When in fact, Putin is the one that conscripts people. Putin is the one that did the mobilization.

And so we can talk later about whether Zelensky erred tactically here, but I have a great deal of empathy for what he had to go through.

And so we can talk later about whether Zelensky erred tactically here, but I have a great deal of empathy for what he had to go through.

Yeah, there's a lot in that one, too, Tommy. I mean, first of all, boy, to say that Zelensky is the one that's gambling with World War Three when Putin is the one that invaded the country. I mean, the Ukrainians didn't want they don't want to be in this war.

Yeah, there's a lot in that one, too, Tommy. I mean, first of all, boy, to say that Zelensky is the one that's gambling with World War Three when Putin is the one that invaded the country. I mean, the Ukrainians didn't want they don't want to be in this war.

Yeah. Yeah. Like what's so fucking bonkers about this is like the the. All the things that Trump and Van Say presuppose that Zelensky somehow wants this war and wanted this war when he was just invaded by Russia. They're the ones that raised the risks of World War III. Then to hear them lecture him about needing to thank Mr. Trump, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Like what's so fucking bonkers about this is like the the. All the things that Trump and Van Say presuppose that Zelensky somehow wants this war and wanted this war when he was just invaded by Russia. They're the ones that raised the risks of World War III. Then to hear them lecture him about needing to thank Mr. Trump, you know.