Ben Rhodes

And so then you start pulling the levers that you think will make – and what are those levers doing?

They're making it more violent.

And then there are refugees flowing into Europe and then you –

then we better get a plan to deal with Erdogan to host these refugees.

And then the Europeans are paying him.

And you're constantly chasing your own foreign policy around the map.

And if you look at Iran, and this is what's so insane, and I think where we have to not let Trump off the hook on this thing, is let's say he gets the dust out, right?

And he's unleashed chaos on a global scale, right?

An instability on a global scale.

And what worries me in my darkest moments, John, is that the stock market's gone up.

Maybe the reason this keeps happening is because the people that are actually powerful are insulated from the instability.

Because they're trading currencies and they're trading world futures.

And so if financial capitalism can run, if the arms dealers can make their profits, if AIPAC is happy because Israel wanted this war, if all these – and it's multiple powerful interests here.

So it's actually two – the Tucker version that this is just AIPAC

kind of ignores the capitalism part and the arms dealer part and the fossil fuel companies part.

But it's all these powerful interests that finance our politics that benefit from the instability while like literally everybody else in the world is getting screwed.

That's so right.

And you've been on this better than anyone.

But I had a friend in Europe once explain something to me that I thought was really interesting, which is, you know, you Americans are crazy.

And there are a lot of reasons why.