Ben van Kerkwyk

That's right.

And the only way that that's going to change is you and I and other people to continue to have these public conversations where more people hear it.

And I guarantee you there's people listening to this right now that have never heard this before, never considered this before.

And am I wrong?

Do I have these deep held beliefs that are completely ignorant?

And why do I have these beliefs?

What started them?

Why do I have this in my mind as this is what this stuff is?

Exactly.

And there's a lot of people out there that are stone cold, sober, disciplined people think that's the only way.

This is the way.

That's right.

Well, the more possibilities there are for creativity, the more possibilities there are for people to rethink their lives, get on a better path.

There's a lot that people are missing just because you've been hoodwinked and you've been led into this false narrative.

That's right.

There's a problem with the term drugs.

Because just I hear drug, I hear drugged.

I hear someone is all fucked up and doesn't know what's going on.

How are you putting all these things under the same blanket, including nicotine and caffeine and things that people use on a daily basis?

These are all drugs.