Benjamin Wittes

You know, in one of the metaphors we like to use in media, when did you stop beating your wife? Right. What's a what's an example of the worst kind of leading question? What I just said, when did you stop beating your wife? So when did you stop supporting terrorists is essentially.

The conversation that the Trump administration wants to have every time a Democrat says, hey, how you did this, how you are deporting these people is unconstitutional and against the law. What's interesting is that there's plenty of Republicans that believe this. Most of them don't want to say a word. By the way, have you noticed you may need to put an APB out for Lindsey Graham?

The conversation that the Trump administration wants to have every time a Democrat says, hey, how you did this, how you are deporting these people is unconstitutional and against the law. What's interesting is that there's plenty of Republicans that believe this. Most of them don't want to say a word. By the way, have you noticed you may need to put an APB out for Lindsey Graham?

The conversation that the Trump administration wants to have every time a Democrat says, hey, how you did this, how you are deporting these people is unconstitutional and against the law. What's interesting is that there's plenty of Republicans that believe this. Most of them don't want to say a word. By the way, have you noticed you may need to put an APB out for Lindsey Graham?

One of the patterns to Lindsey Graham in particular, if you want to know, when he can't defend what Donald Trump is doing, he goes radio silent. Completely radio silent. He has sort of two versions of it. Sometimes what he does is he doesn't defend the actions, but he defends the goals. But this is a guy who was in the JAG Corps in the military. I think actually does care about the rule of law.

One of the patterns to Lindsey Graham in particular, if you want to know, when he can't defend what Donald Trump is doing, he goes radio silent. Completely radio silent. He has sort of two versions of it. Sometimes what he does is he doesn't defend the actions, but he defends the goals. But this is a guy who was in the JAG Corps in the military. I think actually does care about the rule of law.

One of the patterns to Lindsey Graham in particular, if you want to know, when he can't defend what Donald Trump is doing, he goes radio silent. Completely radio silent. He has sort of two versions of it. Sometimes what he does is he doesn't defend the actions, but he defends the goals. But this is a guy who was in the JAG Corps in the military. I think actually does care about the rule of law.

And I think is probably, I would like to think, I don't know if he's personally outraged by how this administration is dealing with the rule of law. But it's clear he's not supportive of it. Because it is crickets. You don't see him anywhere. You don't see him.

And I think is probably, I would like to think, I don't know if he's personally outraged by how this administration is dealing with the rule of law. But it's clear he's not supportive of it. Because it is crickets. You don't see him anywhere. You don't see him.

And I think is probably, I would like to think, I don't know if he's personally outraged by how this administration is dealing with the rule of law. But it's clear he's not supportive of it. Because it is crickets. You don't see him anywhere. You don't see him.

This is a guy who knows his state has benefited from an open and free market economy with a company like BMW and Mercedes, both, I believe, with plants in South Carolina. And here's a guy who actually seems to care about the rule of law. And clearly this administration right now doesn't care if it's following the rule of law.

This is a guy who knows his state has benefited from an open and free market economy with a company like BMW and Mercedes, both, I believe, with plants in South Carolina. And here's a guy who actually seems to care about the rule of law. And clearly this administration right now doesn't care if it's following the rule of law.

This is a guy who knows his state has benefited from an open and free market economy with a company like BMW and Mercedes, both, I believe, with plants in South Carolina. And here's a guy who actually seems to care about the rule of law. And clearly this administration right now doesn't care if it's following the rule of law.

So you can see sometimes by the lack of positive affirmation from some of these folks that if they can't defend it, they're staying silent. Because as Lisa Murkowski admitted last week, Speaking out comes with a threat of retaliation. And that is something that many Republicans are very, very nervous about. All right. I'm going to sneak in a break.

So you can see sometimes by the lack of positive affirmation from some of these folks that if they can't defend it, they're staying silent. Because as Lisa Murkowski admitted last week, Speaking out comes with a threat of retaliation. And that is something that many Republicans are very, very nervous about. All right. I'm going to sneak in a break.

So you can see sometimes by the lack of positive affirmation from some of these folks that if they can't defend it, they're staying silent. Because as Lisa Murkowski admitted last week, Speaking out comes with a threat of retaliation. And that is something that many Republicans are very, very nervous about. All right. I'm going to sneak in a break.

When we come back, my conversation with Ben Wittes as we try to understand exactly if there is any actual legal strategy behind what the executive branch is up to or if this is all lawsuits that are designed for maximum political advantage and or pain. Thank you.

When we come back, my conversation with Ben Wittes as we try to understand exactly if there is any actual legal strategy behind what the executive branch is up to or if this is all lawsuits that are designed for maximum political advantage and or pain. Thank you.

When we come back, my conversation with Ben Wittes as we try to understand exactly if there is any actual legal strategy behind what the executive branch is up to or if this is all lawsuits that are designed for maximum political advantage and or pain. Thank you.

And joining me now is the editor-in-chief of Lawfare, which is a publication that's devoted to legal issues having to do with national security. But these days, the definition, at least what the White House uses for national security, keeps broadening, which means in many ways, I'm going to be counting on Ben Wittes here to be our...