Bernie Sanders

And again, that's why politics is very, very fascinating. Sometimes you can run and lose and you really win if your goal is not just individual power, but transforming society. One of my heroes, you mentioned Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who is one of my heroes. Another one of my heroes is Eugene Victor Debs. Did that ring a bell? Yeah, yes. Okay. For many reasons, yes. All right.

Debs, many listeners may not know who Debs was. Debs was a union organizer in the early 1900s, helped form the American Railway Union, ran for president, I think, five times, ran the last time while he was in a jail cell because of his opposition to World War I and got a million votes doing that. Debs lost badly in every race that he ran in.

Debs, many listeners may not know who Debs was. Debs was a union organizer in the early 1900s, helped form the American Railway Union, ran for president, I think, five times, ran the last time while he was in a jail cell because of his opposition to World War I and got a million votes doing that. Debs lost badly in every race that he ran in.

Debs, many listeners may not know who Debs was. Debs was a union organizer in the early 1900s, helped form the American Railway Union, ran for president, I think, five times, ran the last time while he was in a jail cell because of his opposition to World War I and got a million votes doing that. Debs lost badly in every race that he ran in.

In 1932, Franklin Delano Roosevelt ran for president, and much of what Roosevelt ended up doing was at least some of what Debs had talked about. Debs helped lay the groundwork for ideas. So sometimes you can lose and win if you're into transforming society. What my view is, where I disagree with Obama— is I think you have got to raise consciousness among ordinary people.

In 1932, Franklin Delano Roosevelt ran for president, and much of what Roosevelt ended up doing was at least some of what Debs had talked about. Debs helped lay the groundwork for ideas. So sometimes you can lose and win if you're into transforming society. What my view is, where I disagree with Obama— is I think you have got to raise consciousness among ordinary people.

In 1932, Franklin Delano Roosevelt ran for president, and much of what Roosevelt ended up doing was at least some of what Debs had talked about. Debs helped lay the groundwork for ideas. So sometimes you can lose and win if you're into transforming society. What my view is, where I disagree with Obama— is I think you have got to raise consciousness among ordinary people.

And when people know what's going on and are prepared in an organized way to fight for change, they can make incredible changes. And we've seen that in recent years. You know, today we take for granted, well, we have a woman running for president of the United States, so I'm supporting. We have had other women running for president. We have women governors and senators.

And when people know what's going on and are prepared in an organized way to fight for change, they can make incredible changes. And we've seen that in recent years. You know, today we take for granted, well, we have a woman running for president of the United States, so I'm supporting. We have had other women running for president. We have women governors and senators.

And when people know what's going on and are prepared in an organized way to fight for change, they can make incredible changes. And we've seen that in recent years. You know, today we take for granted, well, we have a woman running for president of the United States, so I'm supporting. We have had other women running for president. We have women governors and senators.

Not so many years ago in the United States Senate, there were 98 men, two women, all right? Even before that, 1920, it was when women got the right to vote. How did that change? How did women's role in society change? It changed because women and their male allies stood up and fought. Gay rights. I'm old enough to remember that anybody I knew who was gay, you think they would talk about it?

Not so many years ago in the United States Senate, there were 98 men, two women, all right? Even before that, 1920, it was when women got the right to vote. How did that change? How did women's role in society change? It changed because women and their male allies stood up and fought. Gay rights. I'm old enough to remember that anybody I knew who was gay, you think they would talk about it?

Not so many years ago in the United States Senate, there were 98 men, two women, all right? Even before that, 1920, it was when women got the right to vote. How did that change? How did women's role in society change? It changed because women and their male allies stood up and fought. Gay rights. I'm old enough to remember that anybody I knew who was gay, you think they would talk about it?

come out about it? No, they wouldn't. That's changed. We have seen, you know, in terms of civil rights, massive changes. Change happens when people at the grassroots level demand that. We talked about healthcare a moment ago. We will get universal Medicare for all when millions of people make it clear that's what they want.

come out about it? No, they wouldn't. That's changed. We have seen, you know, in terms of civil rights, massive changes. Change happens when people at the grassroots level demand that. We talked about healthcare a moment ago. We will get universal Medicare for all when millions of people make it clear that's what they want.

come out about it? No, they wouldn't. That's changed. We have seen, you know, in terms of civil rights, massive changes. Change happens when people at the grassroots level demand that. We talked about healthcare a moment ago. We will get universal Medicare for all when millions of people make it clear that's what they want.

So I believe politics starts at the grassroots level, and that's how you got to bring about change.

So I believe politics starts at the grassroots level, and that's how you got to bring about change.

So I believe politics starts at the grassroots level, and that's how you got to bring about change.

Well, You know, I know him, we're not best friends, but I know him well and we chat every once in a while. First of all, don't underestimate what it was in 2008 to be the first black president in the history of this country. And I think few would deny that he's an extraordinarily intelligent guy, very, very articulate, one of the best speakers that there is in America.