Bethany Minelle

That kind of went with her kind of whole persona, her whole brand.

However, there is a line to that brand.

And this line is very much crossed with this kind of being crossed off as a trustee and her honesty being questioned and her kind of real commitment to her charity work, which, as you say, it's about her personality.

persona isn't it in the public eye she's argued that she's famous enough already and she doesn't need to do anything for kind of PR work and that she did her charity work

because she loved doing charity work.

Charity Commission says that she's very good at controlling the media narrative.

Are both true?

I don't know.

The appeal is obviously not going to be deciding on her personality or her reputation, but it will be deciding if that five-year ban stays in place or gets overturned or indeed just gets modified.

That's also a possibility.

Yeah.

So it's the case is now concluded.

The tribunal has concluded.

So everyone goes away and does their homework.

So I'm saying this is a civil regulatory case.

So it's not criminal.

There's going to be no criminal charges or prison.

There's no jury.

But the judge will go away and look at this and then they'll give what they call a reserve judgment, which means at some point they will have a written judgment and they will flag it and they will say, here's our decision.

There you go.