Bhaskar Sunkara

That's why we need to design our systems in such a way that it eliminates as many of these things as possible.

And also, that's why we need democracy.

We need freedom.

So in a Soviet system, for instance, you had the rise of this authoritarian bureaucracy.

that dominated, of course, others in the name of socialism.

Now, that system desperately could have used some political democracy and some checks on what people were doing and some ability to reverse their power, right?

And as soon as, of course, little elements of democracy was brought to that system, the system, you

they're starting to be outlets for dissent and for dissatisfaction.

So I think we can't design a priori a perfect system.

We need to be committed to certain principles that allow systems to be perfected.

And for me, that's the importance of democracy.

So even a few years ago, not to go on a tangent, but people were lauding Chinese authoritarianism.

And they're saying,

China's building this efficient system, the state runs so well, there's technocratic excellence, plus there's just productivity, and they're just working harder than Americans and whatever else.

But look at in practice what really happened with COVID, both the initial suppressing of information about what was happening in Wuhan and the outbreak where many ordinary Chinese workers and doctors and others were trying to get the word out and they were suppressed.

by Communist Party officials locally in Wuhan, probably with the collusion nationally, and now with zero COVID policies and whatever else.

So I think that often we find that even though it seems like these are weak systems and democracy makes us less competent technocratically and otherwise, I think it's kind of a necessity for systems to grow and evolve to have that freedom in civil society.

But as for individuals,

Now, the first part of it is, yeah, I think people should be free to make their own choices.

You might have tremendous potential, but you might choose to spend it in leisure.