Bob Langer

I failed over 200 times before I finally got something to work.

I failed over 200 times before I finally got something to work.

All this is a key element in the future of the NHS. One day, not too far away, you'll wonder how you live without it.

All this is a key element in the future of the NHS. One day, not too far away, you'll wonder how you live without it.

My name's Bob Langer, and I'm an institute professor at MIT. I do research, but I've also been involved in helping get companies started, and I've done various advising to the government, FDA, and places like that.

My name's Bob Langer, and I'm an institute professor at MIT. I do research, but I've also been involved in helping get companies started, and I've done various advising to the government, FDA, and places like that.

Well, I would say I'm a chemical engineer or a biomedical engineer, but people have called me all kinds of things. You know, they've called me a biochemist. We do very interdisciplinary work, so I end up getting called more than one thing. Do you care what people call you? I just like them to call me Bob.

Well, I would say I'm a chemical engineer or a biomedical engineer, but people have called me all kinds of things. You know, they've called me a biochemist. We do very interdisciplinary work, so I end up getting called more than one thing. Do you care what people call you? I just like them to call me Bob.

Well, I mean, a lot of things, but I'd go back to my own career. I failed at trying to get research grants. My first nine research grants were turned down. I'd send them to places like National Institutes of Health, and they have study sections, reviewers.

Well, I mean, a lot of things, but I'd go back to my own career. I failed at trying to get research grants. My first nine research grants were turned down. I'd send them to places like National Institutes of Health, and they have study sections, reviewers.

Mine would go, just because of the work I was doing, to what was called a Pathology B study section, and they would review it, and they said, well, Dr. Langer, you know, he's an engineer. He doesn't know anything about biology or cancer. I failed over and over again. Other things, like I failed to get a job in a chemical engineering department as an assistant professor even. Nobody would hire me.

Mine would go, just because of the work I was doing, to what was called a Pathology B study section, and they would review it, and they said, well, Dr. Langer, you know, he's an engineer. He doesn't know anything about biology or cancer. I failed over and over again. Other things, like I failed to get a job in a chemical engineering department as an assistant professor even. Nobody would hire me.

They said actually the opposite. They said, you know, chemical engineers don't do experimental biomedical engineering work. So, you know, they should work on oil or energy. When I first started working on creating these micro or nanoparticles to try to get large molecules to be delivered, I failed over 200 times. I mean, before I finally got something to work. I could go on and on in my failures.

They said actually the opposite. They said, you know, chemical engineers don't do experimental biomedical engineering work. So, you know, they should work on oil or energy. When I first started working on creating these micro or nanoparticles to try to get large molecules to be delivered, I failed over 200 times. I mean, before I finally got something to work. I could go on and on in my failures.

What kept you going during all this failure? I really believed that if we could do this, it would make a big difference in science, and I hoped a big difference in medicine. Secondly, as I did some of it, you know, I could see some of these results with my own eyes.

What kept you going during all this failure? I really believed that if we could do this, it would make a big difference in science, and I hoped a big difference in medicine. Secondly, as I did some of it, you know, I could see some of these results with my own eyes.

When we were trying to deliver some of these molecules to stop blood vessel growth, I could see we were doing this double blind, but I could still see that we were stopping the vessels from growing. That's such a visual thing.

When we were trying to deliver some of these molecules to stop blood vessel growth, I could see we were doing this double blind, but I could still see that we were stopping the vessels from growing. That's such a visual thing.

And I also developed these ways of studying delivery out of the little particles by putting certain enzymes in them and putting dyes in a little gel that would turn color if the enzymes came out. And I could see that happening. Like I said, the first 200 times or first 200 designs or more, it didn't happen.

And I also developed these ways of studying delivery out of the little particles by putting certain enzymes in them and putting dyes in a little gel that would turn color if the enzymes came out. And I could see that happening. Like I said, the first 200 times or first 200 designs or more, it didn't happen.

But finally, I came up with a way where I'd see it come out after an hour, after two hours, after a day, after a second day, up to over 100 days in some cases. So I could see with my own eyes this was working. So that made an enormous difference to me, too.

But finally, I came up with a way where I'd see it come out after an hour, after two hours, after a day, after a second day, up to over 100 days in some cases. So I could see with my own eyes this was working. So that made an enormous difference to me, too.

The experiments I was doing weren't that expensive, especially the delivery ones initially because they were in test tubes. I worked probably 20-hour days. And so the expense wasn't that great. And I've always been good at manufacturing time.

The experiments I was doing weren't that expensive, especially the delivery ones initially because they were in test tubes. I worked probably 20-hour days. And so the expense wasn't that great. And I've always been good at manufacturing time.

Well, I think it's a great question, and I ultimately think it's a judgment call, and we can never be sure of our judgment. You like to try to think, are these things scientifically possible? I think that's one thing. Secondly, it's good to get advice from people. That doesn't mean you have to take it, but it's good to get advice.

Well, I think it's a great question, and I ultimately think it's a judgment call, and we can never be sure of our judgment. You like to try to think, are these things scientifically possible? I think that's one thing. Secondly, it's good to get advice from people. That doesn't mean you have to take it, but it's good to get advice.

I certainly personally have always erred on the side of, I guess, not quitting, and maybe that's sometimes a mistake. I don't think so. I think it depends on what could happen if you are successful. If you are successful, could it make a giant difference in the world? Could it help science a lot? Could it help patients' lives a lot? And so if you really feel that it can, you try that much harder.

I certainly personally have always erred on the side of, I guess, not quitting, and maybe that's sometimes a mistake. I don't think so. I think it depends on what could happen if you are successful. If you are successful, could it make a giant difference in the world? Could it help science a lot? Could it help patients' lives a lot? And so if you really feel that it can, you try that much harder.

If it's incremental, sure, then it's much easier to quit.

If it's incremental, sure, then it's much easier to quit.

One, I guess I've always been very stubborn. My parents told me that. But secondly, I think there's a whole thing with role models, too. When I was a postdoc, the man that I worked with, Judah Folkman, he experienced the same thing. He had this theory that if you could stop blood vessels, you could stop cancer, and that was mediated by chemical signals.

One, I guess I've always been very stubborn. My parents told me that. But secondly, I think there's a whole thing with role models, too. When I was a postdoc, the man that I worked with, Judah Folkman, he experienced the same thing. He had this theory that if you could stop blood vessels, you could stop cancer, and that was mediated by chemical signals.

And everyone told him he was wrong, but I would watch him every day, and he believed anything was possible. And he kept sticking to it. And of course, eventually he was right. I think seeing his example probably also had a big effect on me.

And everyone told him he was wrong, but I would watch him every day, and he believed anything was possible. And he kept sticking to it. And of course, eventually he was right. I think seeing his example probably also had a big effect on me.

I think that's an interesting question. A lot of it even depends how you define failure. You know, when you're trying to learn about something, you try different things and embedded in the scientific papers we write, like when we wrote this paper in Nature in 1976, which was the first time you could get small particles to release large molecules from biocompatible materials.

I think that's an interesting question. A lot of it even depends how you define failure. You know, when you're trying to learn about something, you try different things and embedded in the scientific papers we write, like when we wrote this paper in Nature in 1976, which was the first time you could get small particles to release large molecules from biocompatible materials.

Well, some of the materials we use failed. A lot of them did, actually, because they would either cause inflammation or the drug would come out way too fast or not come out at all. We found one fraction that worked and stopped blood vessels and probably 50 or 100 that didn't. So the failures and successes are maybe in the same papers sometimes. What I've tried to do, even to give more detail—

Well, some of the materials we use failed. A lot of them did, actually, because they would either cause inflammation or the drug would come out way too fast or not come out at all. We found one fraction that worked and stopped blood vessels and probably 50 or 100 that didn't. So the failures and successes are maybe in the same papers sometimes. What I've tried to do, even to give more detail—

is you put all the data in, even if it makes for a very long thesis. So not only are the graphs there and the papers, but there's even the raw data that people can look at and analyze. And I try to get people to do as much of that as possible. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the failures and successes are almost intertwined.

is you put all the data in, even if it makes for a very long thesis. So not only are the graphs there and the papers, but there's even the raw data that people can look at and analyze. And I try to get people to do as much of that as possible. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the failures and successes are almost intertwined.

Yes, yes, and I do, whether it's my own talks or just meeting with students and brainstorming with them about those things. But to me, that research, scientific research, I mean, you just fail way more than, at least I do, way more than you succeed. It's just part of the process. I mean, that's experimentation, and that's okay.

Yes, yes, and I do, whether it's my own talks or just meeting with students and brainstorming with them about those things. But to me, that research, scientific research, I mean, you just fail way more than, at least I do, way more than you succeed. It's just part of the process. I mean, that's experimentation, and that's okay.

Obviously, the easy criteria is a successful company having a good financial exit, I suppose. But I don't necessarily think of it as just that way. I mean, that's certainly going to be important. You know, I've been involved in things where you've advanced science and you learn some things and there's degrees of success. You just don't know

Obviously, the easy criteria is a successful company having a good financial exit, I suppose. But I don't necessarily think of it as just that way. I mean, that's certainly going to be important. You know, I've been involved in things where you've advanced science and you learn some things and there's degrees of success. You just don't know

I've been pretty fortunate in the companies we've started in terms of the exits that they've had, but I just think there's no simple criteria.

I've been pretty fortunate in the companies we've started in terms of the exits that they've had, but I just think there's no simple criteria.

I feel like we've turned out a lot of great scientists and entrepreneurs, and not all their companies have had great financial exits, but I think they've also created products that can change people's lives, and that to me is also very, very important, obviously. That's why we do it in the first place. I have never done it for money, and I don't think they do it for money.

I feel like we've turned out a lot of great scientists and entrepreneurs, and not all their companies have had great financial exits, but I think they've also created products that can change people's lives, and that to me is also very, very important, obviously. That's why we do it in the first place. I have never done it for money, and I don't think they do it for money.

They do it to try to make a difference in the world. Yeah.

They do it to try to make a difference in the world. Yeah.

I would say yes, I think it is. But I also think, you know, there's different cultures, too. I think the good thing about the United States culture, maybe in contrast to some cultures, is failure is widely accepted. I'll give you one of my examples actually in the business sphere. So I'm a big fan of chocolate. Of eating it or making it or researching it? Probably any part, but mostly eating it.

I would say yes, I think it is. But I also think, you know, there's different cultures, too. I think the good thing about the United States culture, maybe in contrast to some cultures, is failure is widely accepted. I'll give you one of my examples actually in the business sphere. So I'm a big fan of chocolate. Of eating it or making it or researching it? Probably any part, but mostly eating it.

But at any rate, one of the books I read, and I'm actually not a fan of their chocolate, is a book on Milton Hershey. And so this really gets to your point on failure. Milton Hershey, he had this idea when he was young, very young, of starting a candy company. And I remember the first candy company, he went bankrupt, you know, and he tried to raise more money, started another one.

But at any rate, one of the books I read, and I'm actually not a fan of their chocolate, is a book on Milton Hershey. And so this really gets to your point on failure. Milton Hershey, he had this idea when he was young, very young, of starting a candy company. And I remember the first candy company, he went bankrupt, you know, and he tried to raise more money, started another one.

I think like the first six or seven totally failed, but not the last one, obviously. And he became a millionaire at a time when there weren't very many. Was that really failure or was it just being an apprentice to trying to learn how to succeed? And I think that's true in a lot of things. The reason I brought it up is I don't think there's a shame in failure necessarily.

I think like the first six or seven totally failed, but not the last one, obviously. And he became a millionaire at a time when there weren't very many. Was that really failure or was it just being an apprentice to trying to learn how to succeed? And I think that's true in a lot of things. The reason I brought it up is I don't think there's a shame in failure necessarily.

In either area, or I hope there's not, I think you have to feel it's okay. And then you keep going on.

In either area, or I hope there's not, I think you have to feel it's okay. And then you keep going on.

He dumped me when I was 70, and I married him again at age 75.

He dumped me when I was 70, and I married him again at age 75.

To life-saving. I really believe that if we could do this, it would make a big difference in medicine. How to succeed at failing, part two, beginning now.

To life-saving. I really believe that if we could do this, it would make a big difference in medicine. How to succeed at failing, part two, beginning now.

I'll try to remember what I said. Stitcher.

I'll try to remember what I said. Stitcher.

I failed over 200 times before I finally got something to work.

All this is a key element in the future of the NHS. One day, not too far away, you'll wonder how you live without it.

My name's Bob Langer, and I'm an institute professor at MIT. I do research, but I've also been involved in helping get companies started, and I've done various advising to the government, FDA, and places like that.

Well, I would say I'm a chemical engineer or a biomedical engineer, but people have called me all kinds of things. You know, they've called me a biochemist. We do very interdisciplinary work, so I end up getting called more than one thing. Do you care what people call you? I just like them to call me Bob.

Well, I mean, a lot of things, but I'd go back to my own career. I failed at trying to get research grants. My first nine research grants were turned down. I'd send them to places like National Institutes of Health, and they have study sections, reviewers.

Mine would go, just because of the work I was doing, to what was called a Pathology B study section, and they would review it, and they said, well, Dr. Langer, you know, he's an engineer. He doesn't know anything about biology or cancer. I failed over and over again. Other things, like I failed to get a job in a chemical engineering department as an assistant professor even. Nobody would hire me.

They said actually the opposite. They said, you know, chemical engineers don't do experimental biomedical engineering work. So, you know, they should work on oil or energy. When I first started working on creating these micro or nanoparticles to try to get large molecules to be delivered, I failed over 200 times. I mean, before I finally got something to work. I could go on and on in my failures.

What kept you going during all this failure? I really believed that if we could do this, it would make a big difference in science, and I hoped a big difference in medicine. Secondly, as I did some of it, you know, I could see some of these results with my own eyes.

When we were trying to deliver some of these molecules to stop blood vessel growth, I could see we were doing this double blind, but I could still see that we were stopping the vessels from growing. That's such a visual thing.

And I also developed these ways of studying delivery out of the little particles by putting certain enzymes in them and putting dyes in a little gel that would turn color if the enzymes came out. And I could see that happening. Like I said, the first 200 times or first 200 designs or more, it didn't happen.

But finally, I came up with a way where I'd see it come out after an hour, after two hours, after a day, after a second day, up to over 100 days in some cases. So I could see with my own eyes this was working. So that made an enormous difference to me, too.

The experiments I was doing weren't that expensive, especially the delivery ones initially because they were in test tubes. I worked probably 20-hour days. And so the expense wasn't that great. And I've always been good at manufacturing time.

Well, I think it's a great question, and I ultimately think it's a judgment call, and we can never be sure of our judgment. You like to try to think, are these things scientifically possible? I think that's one thing. Secondly, it's good to get advice from people. That doesn't mean you have to take it, but it's good to get advice.

I certainly personally have always erred on the side of, I guess, not quitting, and maybe that's sometimes a mistake. I don't think so. I think it depends on what could happen if you are successful. If you are successful, could it make a giant difference in the world? Could it help science a lot? Could it help patients' lives a lot? And so if you really feel that it can, you try that much harder.

If it's incremental, sure, then it's much easier to quit.

One, I guess I've always been very stubborn. My parents told me that. But secondly, I think there's a whole thing with role models, too. When I was a postdoc, the man that I worked with, Judah Folkman, he experienced the same thing. He had this theory that if you could stop blood vessels, you could stop cancer, and that was mediated by chemical signals.

And everyone told him he was wrong, but I would watch him every day, and he believed anything was possible. And he kept sticking to it. And of course, eventually he was right. I think seeing his example probably also had a big effect on me.

I think that's an interesting question. A lot of it even depends how you define failure. You know, when you're trying to learn about something, you try different things and embedded in the scientific papers we write, like when we wrote this paper in Nature in 1976, which was the first time you could get small particles to release large molecules from biocompatible materials.

Well, some of the materials we use failed. A lot of them did, actually, because they would either cause inflammation or the drug would come out way too fast or not come out at all. We found one fraction that worked and stopped blood vessels and probably 50 or 100 that didn't. So the failures and successes are maybe in the same papers sometimes. What I've tried to do, even to give more detail—

is you put all the data in, even if it makes for a very long thesis. So not only are the graphs there and the papers, but there's even the raw data that people can look at and analyze. And I try to get people to do as much of that as possible. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the failures and successes are almost intertwined.

Yes, yes, and I do, whether it's my own talks or just meeting with students and brainstorming with them about those things. But to me, that research, scientific research, I mean, you just fail way more than, at least I do, way more than you succeed. It's just part of the process. I mean, that's experimentation, and that's okay.

Obviously, the easy criteria is a successful company having a good financial exit, I suppose. But I don't necessarily think of it as just that way. I mean, that's certainly going to be important. You know, I've been involved in things where you've advanced science and you learn some things and there's degrees of success. You just don't know

I've been pretty fortunate in the companies we've started in terms of the exits that they've had, but I just think there's no simple criteria.

I feel like we've turned out a lot of great scientists and entrepreneurs, and not all their companies have had great financial exits, but I think they've also created products that can change people's lives, and that to me is also very, very important, obviously. That's why we do it in the first place. I have never done it for money, and I don't think they do it for money.

They do it to try to make a difference in the world. Yeah.

I would say yes, I think it is. But I also think, you know, there's different cultures, too. I think the good thing about the United States culture, maybe in contrast to some cultures, is failure is widely accepted. I'll give you one of my examples actually in the business sphere. So I'm a big fan of chocolate. Of eating it or making it or researching it? Probably any part, but mostly eating it.

But at any rate, one of the books I read, and I'm actually not a fan of their chocolate, is a book on Milton Hershey. And so this really gets to your point on failure. Milton Hershey, he had this idea when he was young, very young, of starting a candy company. And I remember the first candy company, he went bankrupt, you know, and he tried to raise more money, started another one.

I think like the first six or seven totally failed, but not the last one, obviously. And he became a millionaire at a time when there weren't very many. Was that really failure or was it just being an apprentice to trying to learn how to succeed? And I think that's true in a lot of things. The reason I brought it up is I don't think there's a shame in failure necessarily.

In either area, or I hope there's not, I think you have to feel it's okay. And then you keep going on.

He dumped me when I was 70, and I married him again at age 75.

To life-saving. I really believe that if we could do this, it would make a big difference in medicine. How to succeed at failing, part two, beginning now.

I'll try to remember what I said. Stitcher.