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Bob Wachter

👤 Speaker
553 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

And the paradox is it looks so good on the PowerPoint slides, the ads that were used to sell it to us.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

It doesn't work, and it doesn't work partly because the technology needs to get better and all the iterative versions 12.7 need to happen.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

But much more importantly, the industry needs to transform the way it thinks about its work, organizes itself, the culture, the governance.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

And we didn't do that.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

In 2012, JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association, published a crayon drawing—probably the first time I'd ever did that—from a seven-year-old girl who went in to see her pediatrician.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

What it shows is the girl sitting on the exam table, mom's next to her, sister's in the corner, and in the other corner of the room is the doctor with his back to the patient, typing away—

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

It's a beautiful drawing.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

There's one thing the girl got wrong, which is she portrayed the doctors having a smile on his face.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

I can tell you that no doctor was happy about being transformed into a data entry clerk.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

And patients noticed it.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

They went to see their doctors, and their doctor had the head down, typing away.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

And why did that happen?

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

Because the computer became this enabler of all of these outside entities who used to have no ability to influence what the doctor did because I was scribbling on a piece of paper, now had a way of making me check 12 boxes about did I examine nine body parts and did I ask you if you wear seatbelts?

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

Do you exercise and all that?

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

All noble questions, but now there was a forcing function that you could make the doctor record all this stuff, and so people did.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

And importantly, when we send a bill off to the insurance company, the amount of money we get paid is partly related to the nuances of how I record the note.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

Which creates some perverse incentives right there.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

Totally, totally ridiculous incentives to say the right words in order to get the best bill.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

And then a few years after that, federal legislation mandated that patients could not only see their basic information and maybe their medications, but actually could read my note and see their x-ray results and see their lab results.

Freakonomics Radio
661. Can A.I. Save Your Life?

There was absolutely no information to help the patient figure out what any of that meant or even to make an appointment.