Bob Wachter

20, 30 years from now?

Well, unless I live to 120, that's no relevance to me.

But, you know, I think there will be.

That, again, was Robert Wachter, whose new book is called A Giant Leap.

We also heard from Wachter's one-time mentee, Pierre Elias, at Columbia University.

My thanks to both of them.

I learned many things in this episode.

Hope you did, too.

I especially liked learning a little bit about Judy Faulkner and Epic.

Now I'm hoping we can bring her on the show sometime.

This is the final episode in our Guide to Getting Better series.

Let us know what you thought.

Our email is radio at Freakonomics dot com, or you can leave a review on your podcast app.

Also, if you want to keep up with everything we do around here, you can sign up for our newsletter at Freakonomics dot com or at Stephen Dubner dot Substack dot com.

Coming up next time on the show, for the Super Bowl, we will tell you why NFL running backs don't get paid the way they used to.

And then in a new two-parter, we will look at what it really means to cheat.

People like to call it cheating.

You can call it that.

I'm not sure who was cheated, but that's just what it was.

If you won the Tour de France while doping, but everybody else was also doping, were you the cheater?