Brad Jacobs

valuable thing there in terms of this repressed information that's not unleashed.

And if you can go in there and figure out ways to unleash this information flow and get these feedback loops going and recognize people for contributing to this improvement plan, wow, you can create tremendous opportunities, tremendous, and make a lot of money for everybody.

I should caveat that.

I've seen two types of travesties.

One is where a company just has way too much expense, just bureaucracy and red tape and people aren't really...

triplicates of every division.

Well, let me say, so how do you contribute to the value of the company?

This is long pause.

They're really not.

They're just on some tangent that just wasn't managed properly, just grew up like a weed.

But I also see companies that are underinvested, that haven't put enough money into the business and they've lost opportunity to grow the business as a result of not investing in the business.

And both of those, too much bloat or actually just bloat and too skinniness in the

of overhead.

Both of those things are bad things.

You want to find, like most things in life, you want to find that middle path.

You want to find that good harmony.

Can you tell me about Ludwig Jesselson?

Oh, I'd love to.

So Ludwig, you see a big smile comes to my face.

So Ludwig Jesselson, may he rest in peace, he died in 1993.