Bryan Cantrill

I think. But you stopped doing Surge, presumably because the dynamics were shifting and obviously conferences are super expensive. And what would... Maybe this gets to part of what Stephen was saying in terms of the dynamics really changing about conferences.

I think. But you stopped doing Surge, presumably because the dynamics were shifting and obviously conferences are super expensive. And what would... Maybe this gets to part of what Stephen was saying in terms of the dynamics really changing about conferences.

I'll get you Schlossnagel. You could start a conference in opposition to Velocity. I was the Velocity China chair for fuck's sake, but whatever. Yeah, these people eat their own. And then O'Reilly, I mean, that was an O'Reilly conference. O'Reilly had many, many years of conferences. And then after COVID, O'Reilly totally folded that up and decided to go completely online.

I'll get you Schlossnagel. You could start a conference in opposition to Velocity. I was the Velocity China chair for fuck's sake, but whatever. Yeah, these people eat their own. And then O'Reilly, I mean, that was an O'Reilly conference. O'Reilly had many, many years of conferences. And then after COVID, O'Reilly totally folded that up and decided to go completely online.

But there was this kind of three-legged stool of you had the attendees. It was kind of in their interest to go. You had the speakers. It was kind of in their interest to go because they are able to get their ideas out there. Things are recorded and so on. And then you also have the sponsors who are there.

But there was this kind of three-legged stool of you had the attendees. It was kind of in their interest to go. You had the speakers. It was kind of in their interest to go because they are able to get their ideas out there. Things are recorded and so on. And then you also have the sponsors who are there.

And I know that Theo Steve still remembers fondly Surge 2010 when he realized that he is with all of these practitioners. He's like, I am the only sales guy here. He's like, I am fishing in a stocked pond. I'm on a game preserve and I've just got like... no limit, no bag limit. He was like, this is great. I was like, please do not tell anybody else about Surge. He loved that conference.

And I know that Theo Steve still remembers fondly Surge 2010 when he realized that he is with all of these practitioners. He's like, I am the only sales guy here. He's like, I am fishing in a stocked pond. I'm on a game preserve and I've just got like... no limit, no bag limit. He was like, this is great. I was like, please do not tell anybody else about Surge. He loved that conference.

But of course, that is not sustainable. You can't actually have a game preserve. You actually need to have this kind of other element, this commercial element of people who are there to sell the products.

But of course, that is not sustainable. You can't actually have a game preserve. You actually need to have this kind of other element, this commercial element of people who are there to sell the products.

It is great. Have you ever been to Budapest, Adam?

It is great. Have you ever been to Budapest, Adam?

Oh, it's amazing. It's better than... Okay, easy. Easy, easy, easy. Let's just settle down here.

Oh, it's amazing. It's better than... Okay, easy. Easy, easy, easy. Let's just settle down here.

Ghent is the third largest city in Europe in like 1550, behind Paris and London.

Ghent is the third largest city in Europe in like 1550, behind Paris and London.

And then it was like... I feel like I gotta come in here and defend Ghent. Come in, you'll appreciate this. This is a medievalist. Ghent was then the changing wool trade, and wool being... It was no longer a port for wool, which was all moved... I feel like this is like...

And then it was like... I feel like I gotta come in here and defend Ghent. Come in, you'll appreciate this. This is a medievalist. Ghent was then the changing wool trade, and wool being... It was no longer a port for wool, which was all moved... I feel like this is like...

yeah that's right uh and so it basically is kind of like economically kind of collapses and as a result like it's not economically interesting and so it doesn't get bombed during world war ii so it's like it's totally it's a completely preserved yeah frozen in time amazing city budapest also an amazing city don't make me choose that's what i'm gonna say theo whatever theo says i i don't think they're both great cities but yes craft conf is great

yeah that's right uh and so it basically is kind of like economically kind of collapses and as a result like it's not economically interesting and so it doesn't get bombed during world war ii so it's like it's totally it's a completely preserved yeah frozen in time amazing city budapest also an amazing city don't make me choose that's what i'm gonna say theo whatever theo says i i don't think they're both great cities but yes craft conf is great