C. Thi Nguyen

And a playful relationship is one where you try them on and you see how different they are.

And then this affords you, I think, this opportunity to actually reflect on which systems work for you.

I think some of the biggest lessons I've learned from this come from indie tabletop role-playing.

I think it's an incredibly fascinating world.

Do either of you do tabletop role-playing, like Dungeons & Dragons?

I have before, but not in depth.

So there's a super interesting history of people that played a lot of Dungeons & Dragons, and some people loved it, and then some people really found that it wasn't giving them the experience they wanted.

So there's this little indie world that basically their articulated response to Dungeons & Dragons was,

This just keeps making me tell stories of anonymous murder.

And I didn't want to tell those stories.

I wanted to tell like epic character dramas.

And then they basically realized that nothing in the rules pushed them.

This is early D&D.

D&D's changed its end.

Or nothing in the rules pushed them to do character work or character drama or like family stories.

It was all about killing things and earning money to make weapons, to level up, to kill more things.

And so they changed the rules.

They built a different rule set.

So there are all these rules out there now that have these delightful rules that are like, I think one of my favorite, very accessible ones is Lady Blackbird.

In Lady Blackbird, if you run out of energy points, you get them back by having a refreshment scene.