Carlotta Gall

I've never met Jolani, but I've asked many people who have met him, and some will say he's a diehard. Others say he's more pragmatic. And I actually went four years ago on an embed with HTS to their stronghold in Idlib. Wait, Claudia, you went on an embed with HTS? I did, several times, in fact, because there were some things they decided they needed to tell the Western world.

I've never met Jolani, but I've asked many people who have met him, and some will say he's a diehard. Others say he's more pragmatic. And I actually went four years ago on an embed with HTS to their stronghold in Idlib. Wait, Claudia, you went on an embed with HTS? I did, several times, in fact, because there were some things they decided they needed to tell the Western world.

So they invited journalists like me, I was based in Istanbul, to come and see. And the trip includes always a long lunch and a sort of long political discussion. I mean, it's not quite a long diatribe, but where they explain what they're about and what they believe in. So what was it like there, Carlotta? They are super Islamic, and you could feel they are authoritarian.

So they invited journalists like me, I was based in Istanbul, to come and see. And the trip includes always a long lunch and a sort of long political discussion. I mean, it's not quite a long diatribe, but where they explain what they're about and what they believe in. So what was it like there, Carlotta? They are super Islamic, and you could feel they are authoritarian.

They controlled everything. They controlled where we went. We could talk to whoever we want, but they were very cautious to be in charge. And of course, between the lines, we could understand that these guys rule it, but they are of their society. There's not much freedom of speech, certainly in the media. But there were other things that I think people felt they were running quite a good ship.

They controlled everything. They controlled where we went. We could talk to whoever we want, but they were very cautious to be in charge. And of course, between the lines, we could understand that these guys rule it, but they are of their society. There's not much freedom of speech, certainly in the media. But there were other things that I think people felt they were running quite a good ship.

To tell you the truth, when you go to Idlib, most people are destitute. So quite frankly, they won't talk to you about Islamist rules. They'll talk to you about they haven't got enough food for their kids. But we did reporting on some of the women who felt very threatened by this group and felt they had to leave. There were people who were arrested. There were people who were beaten.

To tell you the truth, when you go to Idlib, most people are destitute. So quite frankly, they won't talk to you about Islamist rules. They'll talk to you about they haven't got enough food for their kids. But we did reporting on some of the women who felt very threatened by this group and felt they had to leave. There were people who were arrested. There were people who were beaten.

There's possibly some people who were who had disappeared. So it's a pretty ruthless group who were set at first on gaining complete control. And now they're trying to reform themselves and appear softer. But their first years, when they were establishing control, they were pretty ruthless.

There's possibly some people who were who had disappeared. So it's a pretty ruthless group who were set at first on gaining complete control. And now they're trying to reform themselves and appear softer. But their first years, when they were establishing control, they were pretty ruthless.

Absolutely. It's very fluid. We know that Assad has left the country, and we've seen that Jalani has arrived in Damascus. He's made a statement to the nation. He's called on his troops to behave, not to pursue people, not to destroy things. But I think it's very clear that for him, this... It's the liberation from the Assad regime that was the main aim. And he's achieved that.

Absolutely. It's very fluid. We know that Assad has left the country, and we've seen that Jalani has arrived in Damascus. He's made a statement to the nation. He's called on his troops to behave, not to pursue people, not to destroy things. But I think it's very clear that for him, this... It's the liberation from the Assad regime that was the main aim. And he's achieved that.

So now what does he do next? There are a lot of different groups. They're sort of under an umbrella of his. But of course, you know, in these sort of events, you often see different groups turning on each other for power. So that's the 64th.

So now what does he do next? There are a lot of different groups. They're sort of under an umbrella of his. But of course, you know, in these sort of events, you often see different groups turning on each other for power. So that's the 64th.

million dollar question of what happens further but he does seem to be someone who has the sternness and the charisma possibly to manage that but we'll have to see and he's he's really not been out there a lot all these years he hasn't done a lot of interviews so we don't even know how much the syrians will will like him and accept him so there's everything's up in the air at the moment

million dollar question of what happens further but he does seem to be someone who has the sternness and the charisma possibly to manage that but we'll have to see and he's he's really not been out there a lot all these years he hasn't done a lot of interviews so we don't even know how much the syrians will will like him and accept him so there's everything's up in the air at the moment

So that's Jelani.

So that's Jelani.

Absolutely. And this is, you know, a very powerful, important country in the Middle East, a crucial place on the map if you look at it. All the countries around are going to be deeply concerned and want to influence. You've got Turkey in the north involved already. with troops inside Syria.

Absolutely. And this is, you know, a very powerful, important country in the Middle East, a crucial place on the map if you look at it. All the countries around are going to be deeply concerned and want to influence. You've got Turkey in the north involved already. with troops inside Syria.