Caroline Hyde

the investment being made, and such questions and shifting.

So I think it's quite healthy that we're focusing on selectivity.

I mean, this is what you want to see to prevent a dot-com bubble.

And when looking at valuations today, we don't really see a big risk of that happening amongst the big tech firms.

So even these worries about debt in particular, and you are coming to us with a viewpoint that is cross-asset in many ways, we have seen a real desire to get into AI-related debt.

Some of the bond sales that come from the likes of Alphabet and the likes of Meta and Oracle have been scooped up.

But there's been this worry that in the longer term, it might start to...

maybe pull back on overall demand?

We might see some of these big hyperscalers come into the market so often that it drives up prices for others.

It's possible.

I mean, I think first just looking at the magnitude of how much AI investment is needed or being spent already, by any way that you cut it, the amount of spending right now is enormous.

But just like Cartier isn't that expensive for a billionaire, when looking at these CapEx relative to the sales from these companies, relative to their current revenue growth, which has also grown significantly, it's actually not that extreme.

So we're seeing this increasing move to tap into debt markets.

But for us, it's not so much these companies getting overextended, but actually more so a reflection of, you know, a better... Sorry.

a better capital structure.

You know, there are some investments like these data centers that are going to be invested over multiple years.

It might make more sense to tap debt markets for some of these deals or an off-balance sheet structure.

So for example, we're going to be looking not only at AI investment surging, but at credit default swaps of Oracle surging.

Has that just been acting as a bellwether and a necessary bellwether to start reflecting some of the risks that maybe people had been ignoring for the past few months?

No, I think it's very apt, and not all of these companies have the establishments.