Cassie McCullagh

The crew was experienced.

They had the best theatre actors in the country.

Not a single line in the script was

Did he have to be ashamed of all the changes were accepted without discussion?

And this was one of the paradoxes of, I guess, the people at the very highest ranks of the Nazi party.

It's a difficult one, actually, because Lenny Rufin's style appears as a character.

She, of course, was an actor who had worked with, perhaps before the war, but then went on to direct Triumph of the Will, which is, well, I guess in some terms a masterpiece of cinema.

But it used thousands and thousands of soldiers and it was Nazi propaganda.

But she really cops a comic treatment in this one, doesn't she, Geordie?

Yeah, that is the heart of the novel.

To me, it really captures how Germany was at the heart of this extraordinary era of

in thinking in world history, you know, leading from the Vienna secession right up to the war and after.

What do you think, Geordie?

It was a little bit of homework, but I'm glad I did it.

And we promised the latest from the American writer Elizabeth Strout, whose books include Olive Kitteridge, My Name is Lucy Barton, Olive Again and O William.

Now, this is called The Things We Never Say.

Robert, Kate, you've read this.

Yes.

Is she back with her gang or is this a fresh world?

It's interesting to hear you say that, Robert, because I was very relieved when I heard this was a standalone book because, like you, when you're getting back into a book, it's a bit like going back into old bathwater, you know, or someone else's bath.