Catherine Haddon

If you really want to sort of move on from the sort of, you know,

ins and outs of the battle that they've currently got into about who's right, which frankly is never going to be solved.

This argument could be spun either way.

There is no way for Number 10 to get out of this of everyone going, oh yes, absolutely, you were right all along and there's nothing more to see here.

There's always going to keep the story going if they keep punching the bruise themselves.

I take that point, and on the security... I mean, I similarly step back, and there's moments where Ollie Robbins chose not to share stuff, particularly once the scandal broke, Mandelson's been sacked.

Like, why you, as a very experienced civil servant...

didn't think, well, hang on, this could be an issue down the line.

I should make sure that we, you know, I talked to the cabinet secretary about that, that I sort of raised those issues.

That slightly baffles me.

But if you go back to the original vetting process, one of the things to understand is that the vetting process is about clearances to see information.

It was not a vetting process for, is this the right appointment?

We don't have that.

We don't have the American system whereby, you know, such an appointment might have gone through

the House of Commons to sort of scrutinise it and approve or not approve of it.

And, you know, we could move to that system, but that would clog up government even more to go to your bureaucracy point.

For the MOD, for the Foreign Office in this case, the reason why, as I understand it, they do that final yay or nay is because it's their material responsibility.

that is being shared, their files and so forth, or information that comes through either diplomatic channels, intelligence channels, defence channels, whatever it might be.

So as I understand it, the reason why for other departments it's a different process

is because for those other departments, it's whether or not the FCDO and the MOD, Defence and Foreign Affairs, have the trust that the individuals those departments are appointing should be shared this information.