Catherine Kalaitis
Appearances
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
You know, completely part and parcel of the American cultural context and of the American culture wars of the past 50 plus years.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
Absolutely. That is exactly the difference, right? If you think about your Nona's Catholicism, it was probably a lot about community and about going to Mass because it comforts you and charity a lot. This is a Catholicism and a religiosity that is in many ways taking the most draconian and text-based... aspects of evangelical Protestantism, right? It's a lot of like Thomas Aquinas and St.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
Augustine and quoting Latin, which is very divorced from the way most cradle Catholics experience their Catholicism.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
I mean, I think online is a definite place that gets experienced the most, oftentimes because cradle Catholics don't really run across these converts unless they're online. Parishes tend to be pretty divided between cradle and convert Catholics. So you have these kind of historical parishes in communities or largely immigrant parishes where cradle Catholics are going.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
And then you have these convert parishes, essentially. So in real life, these people aren't often encountering each other. And then they encounter each other online. And I think there's some real shock on the part of a lot of cradle Catholics and on the part of convert Catholics, right? Because I think there's some disappointment when you convert to this kind of
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
what you think is this idealized medieval whatever you've made up in your head, and then you encounter real people who just do not understand this thing the same way you do.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
I think it's an anti-modernism. So if you have come to believe that the problem with the world is modernity and change, looking to institutions that seem to defy modernity and change becomes appealing. I mean, if you think the problem is stuff changes, you're going to start looking for the things that change the least.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
I think to save not just the Catholic Church, but to save Christianity in the West, in Western Europe and North America, the church is going to have to reform. What that reform looks like, I think both Pope Francis and now Pope Leo have a certain vision of that that maybe isn't progressive enough for the progressives, but it's too progressive for the traditionalists. But the reality is...
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
that for the church to remain relevant in the places that has traditionally been powerful, right? It is going to have to change in some ways. And that means that to keep those cradle Catholics within the fold of the church, the converts largely in America are going to be disappointed.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
So I think that his life is one of bridge building. He is, if not a compromise candidate, he is an institutional candidate. He has served in a role that is essentially that of a diplomat, right? For all intents and purposes. And that is about negotiating within the institution, various positions and interests and conflicts. That is a very valuable skill for anybody.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
But I think for the Pope at this moment, that is an extraordinarily valuable skill. And because of that, he has the capacity within the institution, at least, to build those bridges, make those connections, and maybe sure up the fortress for whatever comes next.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
I think, you know, I mean, I'm glad I'm not Pope to do that. I think he will continue to pursue probably in less time. volatile terms, Pope Francis's strategy of pastoral compassion paired with doctrinal conservatism.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
Those two things can coexist side by side, and perhaps the only way to keep Catholicism relevant and alive in these different and competing factions, when you have these big tent institutions like the Catholic Church, is an approach like that.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
I'm going to go have some drinks with some Franciscans. You have not drank, so you drink with priests. Any priest can drink you under the table. I guarantee it. And I don't know how hard you can go. Chin chin, girl.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
So I'm Catherine Kalaitis, and I'm a research associate at the Institute of Orthodox Christian Studies, Cambridge.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
I think the people who show up are going to be happy about it no matter what. The papacy inspires that kind of reverence for who you get.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
There's roughly 53 million Catholics in America. Which is, you know, about 20 percent of the country.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
Do you know? It's trending downwards. The size of the Catholic Church is shrinking both in real numbers and as a percentage of the population. We might have hit the sort of zenith of Catholic representation in America.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
I guess so. Yeah, that's right. We won. But, you know, I think it's really interesting that you have a country that was, you know, oftentimes hostile towards Catholics, right?
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
People forget this. When Kennedy was running for president, his Catholicism was a genuine issue.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
And Catholics were accused of dual loyalty because of the Pope. You know, it was a real problem if your kid came home and wanted to marry a Catholic and all these things. That has largely disappeared, in no small part because of the alliance between conservative Catholics and American evangelicals, right? Catholics were brought into the mainstream that way.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
Yeah. So there has been, both to the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, this influx of largely politically conservative, largely white converts. Right. who were either from non-religious backgrounds, but largely from these conservative Protestant backgrounds that convert, even evangelical backgrounds, that convert to the Catholic Church.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
The most famous example in America today is the Vice President of the United States, J.D. Vance.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
And probably, you know, their Catholicism is likely very different than the Catholicism you knew growing up.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
If you grow up a Catholic in America or anywhere, you're embedded in this cultural context that the church is part of. And while you might sort of learn your catechism as you prepare for your first communion or for your confirmation, you're not experiencing Catholic theology in a vacuum.
Today, Explained
Chicago Pope
And you're not coming to Catholic theology looking for a justification for your oftentimes very traditional worldview that has been created and that you're reacting to within the context of American cultural politics. I think that is the core difference. These are people who come to Catholicism looking for a certain paradigm that is