Chase Hughes

The title, Fake It Till You Make It, automatically carries some negative connotation. Yes. Where I think we should maybe replace that with just give yourself permission to do it because that's the threshold. That's the threshold between faking it and doing it for real. The moment you give yourself permission, no one else cares.

Well, collecting the data is done on an unconscious level. Your brain is saying, well, you really pushed yourself out of your comfort zone, but it actually worked. So next time it'll be a little bit easier. You're not going to have to fight the little kid and they're worried about tigers anymore.

He might still have a voice, but his voice is going to get quieter and quieter because we're looking for evidence and proof before we act confident, which is never going to come.

It started with a mentor I had. It was a 72 year old intelligence guy, a military intelligence guy. And I had bought this book. I won't say the name of it because I'm going to talk poorly about it. But it was on like these tactics to meet women. I was 20 years old. I was a naive kind of a douchebag. And I tell this guy, we're having lunch together. And I'm a kid. He's agreed to mentor me.

And I bring the book. I've got it in a bag. I'm telling him about this book. I'm excited about it. And he goes, do you have it with you? I said, yeah. He said, put it on the table. So I brought it up there. It's got a girl on the cover. And he said, I want you to flip through there and find one technique that isn't a way to fake or pretend like you have your shit together. Ooh.

And I couldn't do it. And at that point, I was done. But I still understood that all of those things in that book were, if you have your stuff together and you work at a certain level, you are confident. All those fake things are just byproducts of a good person. So once you level up, those things are just a byproduct of your personality or your character.

So I started working in the correctional part of the military in detention facilities. And I initially got on as a counselor and just talking to people and started seeing that this stuff is working. I'm seeing interrogators come in and out. And it got to a point where that stuff became just for this one little facility, it became something that people started to use.

And I thought, wow, I'm going to just figure out a way to package this up and I can replicate it to other people because it started doing a lot of good. And that's kind of how it came into the military side of it.

The whole transferring confidence came about when we had a guy who worked for me and he was one of the guys who talked to these prisoners regularly. I'll just say that. But he was super confident. Everyone would describe him like, oh, he's extremely confident, but he didn't transfer it to anybody else. He was the guy that was confident and kind of pushed other people down.

The more confident he was, the further down he made other people feel. So that's not confident.

Yeah. That's not confidence. So what you see in a situation like this is that person believes in themselves. They might have a high self-esteem, but their confidence is low because it relies on the external world. So esteem and confidence, of course, you know, are absolutely different things.

But the true power of confidence, the guys who did really well talking to detainees, the guys who do well in sales, the guys who are good therapists or good clergy or good parents are very confident and they make other people confident. So even somebody that's around you with social anxiety, we think, oh, if I just kind of crumble down a little bit, it'll make them more comfortable.

Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks for having me, Heather.

But it works the opposite. You know, it makes them feel bad, too. Now it's like double awkward. So somebody who has a natural confidence, even if they're around somebody that has social anxiety, they lift them up and they bring them up. So I noticed that that was one of the key things. And it wasn't just military. It took me a while to realize that it wasn't just interrogations or stuff like that.

It was everything. And I realized I wasn't learning everything. hardcore intelligence skills. I was learning human. This is just applied to all humans. It took me a long time to figure that out, but I didn't think anybody outside of the military would ever be interested in this stuff.

I know, I still, it doesn't feel real at all.

I think that that might be that I don't think they're talking about confidence because if confidence made you ruin relationships, Emma Stone would not be a badass. Yeah. She's one of the most naturally confident people on camera, off camera that I've ever met. And that's true confidence. So that doesn't need to put anybody else down.

And I think the trouble comes when you have a confident person who is unconsciously thinking about status on a very regular basis. They walk into a new conversation and they think, where am I? Am I on top? Am I a little below? They may not be trying to climb. They may not feel the need to be on top all the time, but they're thinking about status probably more than they should.

I don't know. I've been waiting for some kind of an access card to Tesla or something. I haven't gotten anything yet.

And that bleeds into their behaviors.

No, I absolutely do because there's no such thing as faking it. If you act confident, then you're confident because other people will see confidence. So I think fake it just means that I'm doing something without mental permission from myself to do it.

Yeah. And I always ask people, where's the line? Where's the line from faking it to reality? Are you judging this by how other people respond? Then if that's the case, then faking it is for the rest of your life.

And I think the whole concept or the title fake it till you make it automatically carries some negative connotation where I think we should maybe replace that with just give yourself permission to do it because that's the threshold. That's the threshold between faking it and doing it for real. The moment you give yourself permission, no one else cares.

They care so little whether or not, hey, does he really feel this way? No one gives a shit. So I think that's the threshold. When you talk to a human, even if you're faking confidence until you make it, there's no graduation ceremony where you get a certificate. Okay, you're not faking it anymore. Heather is officially confident. Hang it on the wall.

If we're outside our comfort zone, I think it's a good thing.

All the time. Two days after I retired, I did 20 years in the military. Two days after I retired, I retired on a plane on the way to London. And I'd never been to London before. And I was doing a seminar there. And I'd never taught civilians in my life. I've never done a keynote. I didn't do anything. And I had 100 people sign up for this big thing.

It should be cool.

I rented out the entire Winston Churchill underground war bunker for this.

Yeah, I had a major imposter syndrome for that. Like, well, I'm not qualified because I haven't taught civilians before. I'm not qualified because I'm used to teaching in uniform and now I'm wearing a suit. I'm not wearing camouflage anymore. I'm not qualified because I don't bring my body armor overseas. There's so many things that I tried to convince myself.

I looked for evidence and proof that I wasn't qualified instead of just ignoring that that stuff doesn't matter.

I think the difference between me and the average Joe is that I'm looking at myself like, what a dipshit. As I'm experiencing the thoughts, I'm like, I know that it's happening. I know I'm experiencing it. And it's down there in that little mammalian part of the brain. And I know that it's a completely irrational part of my brain, but it's got a visceral, like you said, it's a visceral effect.

And it's also the part of the brain that's making your heartbeat. It's making your intestines work right now. And it's powerful. And if you start pissing it off and start getting out of your comfort zone, it's going to say, okay, dude, I'm just going to make your body feel like crap for the next 15 minutes.

Two years. Yeah.

I write every day from 4 to 11 a.m. And I'm booked in 15 minute increments until 9 p.m. after that on calls and stuff. And I take one day off a week, but I still write from 4 to 11. So 4 to 11 is the sacred writing time every day.

Yeah, that's why we feel so stressed out when we do something. We're faking confidence, for example, or we do something out of our comfort zone. That thing stresses us out so much. We feel like crap. So we'll go back to safety. It's a little kid. I want you to try to imagine that part of your brain as a little nine year old kid.

I think, you know, a lot of people assume that, but most guys in the military, and I'll be the first to admit it, you're waking up early because you don't want to get in trouble. You don't want to get your ass handed to you. So you get up early. So a lot of what we think is discipline is actually habit.

who doesn't know any better and is trying to pull you back into safety. And you understand that you can speak back to that part of you like an authority figure and say, well, I appreciate you're trying to do the right thing here, but I'm going to make the decisions as a human instead of an animal.

Six Minute X-Ray is a new book that just came out. And I spent 20 years developing this system because everybody says, I trained the military with a six-week course. And everybody says, oh, we need a shorter course. Chase, we need a shorter course, shorter course. And so I had to get a system down to eight hours for intelligence agencies.

to read a person on an extremely deep level that is more than any psychiatrist or psychologist is trained to do, what are the essential things that make this person tick? What are their insecurities, their secret fears? What are they hiding behind? What does their mask look like? And we're all wearing, everyone wears a mask, everybody. And how do they run on the inside?

And I wanted to be able to teach these intelligence people to be able to profile a human in a conversation in six minutes or less. And that's what my courses teach. And that's what the book is all about.

Yeah. And I teach this to law firms when they're doing jury selection and things like that as well. So I teach it to police departments, law firms, intelligence agencies, and civilians now.

Yeah. One of the courses that we have is a course designed for women, but anybody can take it. It's got a lot of this in here and then it's a huge bonus throughout the entire course on how to unmask and reveal narcissists on a first date. And how would you be able to unmask and spot a narcissist or a manipulator within the first six minutes, within that six minute window?

That's it. Yeah. So you just need a little teaspoon of discipline and then the habit starts. Like, you know, you see somebody going to the gym, working their butt off every day. You know, you hear people say, oh, I wish I had that kind of discipline. That's not discipline. That's just a habit.

Sure. I'll share a couple. So one thing you'll see with narcissists, especially on that first date, I'll do three. Their friends are all out of town. They live in another state, another city, another country. They don't really have a lot of local friends. Their friends are elsewhere. Second, you'll see just asking a small question. You'll hear their past relationships.

Everything was someone else's fault. They were a perfect human being. And you'll hear a lot of that type of language. But most of all, if you want to spot like someone who's a malignant narcissist. who preys on the weakness of others is if you say something that's really exciting and your face lights up, see how your eyebrows just went up when mine did? That's called reflective empathy.

So your face lit up the same way mine did. And if I'm saying something sad, like if I'm talking about a relative of mine who was just diagnosed with some illness or whatever, you'll see their face change to a little bit of more sympathetic tone to match yours.

And when you're dealing with someone who's a malignant narcissist, you won't see reflections of emotions in their face when you do those things.

That's right. And that's why you got to look for a cluster of things and not just one or two, because you can't manage all of them.

I'm an arms dealer, I guess. 99% of the people are going to use it for good stuff. And you got to remember, all psychopaths are narcissists, but not all narcissists are psychopaths.

It depends, especially if you work with people on the spectrum. The way that they cope as they're growing up is to mimic facial expressions. And if you send a narcissist to a psychotherapist for treatment, there's no treatment. What they're going to do is learn how to wear a better looking mask.

It's a little bit just to get it started off. Yeah.

No, everyone has a mask that they present. And that's typically one of the biggest mistakes that I identified in my career is that I'll just use the word selling instead of getting someone to confess to a crime. Sure. Provided it's eligible.

So if I'm selling to a person, the best advice I could give somebody is due to the fact that every sales training, every influence, every persuasion training teaches you how to sell to the mask instead of the person behind it.

So the person that's behind it is typically what makes the decisions because our brains are extremely driven by the subconscious, by that mammalian emotional part of the brain that And then we'll go do something, stupid or not, and then reverse rationalize it after we've already done it.

So we'll come up, you stop somebody walking out of a Best Buy with a big ass TV and you're like, hey, why did you buy that TV? And they're going to say, oh, they're going to list off all these logical things. And they're going to say, I've never been influenced by a commercial before. None of those things. My neighbor's TV, no, that did not make me want to buy a bigger TV.

like all these little emotions happen. And it's so powerful. Listen to this. They did a study where they opened someone's skull, put electrodes down into the brain and moved a person's arm with the electrodes. So they made them reach forward, they made them reach up. So they moved their arms around

Even then, the person knowing full well that there's a neuroscientist back there doing the stuff, swear up and down, they absolutely affirm they chose to do those things. That's how powerful that conscious brain is that tries to take credit for a lot of stuff that goes on down in the basement.

Yeah.

Correct.

Well, the system that I teach is to identify who the person is within six minutes, what their social needs are, what are the things that drive them on a social level. Because if I'm in a conversation, if I'm talking to you right now, we are in a social situation here. So I'm not worried about your actual needs and whether or not you're hungry or hungry.

Yeah, I got that from Dan Brown, the guy who wrote The Da Vinci Code. That's his routine, so I just copied it. I figured if he can write a bestselling book, then I'll do the same.

You know, this pyramid of needs, that goes to the side. This is a social situation. So I'm worried about what do you need socially? Do you need to feel intelligent? Do you need to feel accepted or do you need approval? Do you need to feel significant? Do you need other people to feel pity for you or to acknowledge how bad you have it more than everybody else?

So all of these little social drivers are really important and they help us to expose what the person is very privately afraid of in a lot of their decisions because our decisions are emotional and social and they take place on that level that's way behind the mask. And that's one of the things I teach to start peeling that mask off.

It's a ton of theories. I majored in psychology too.

And it's like, oh, here's a study that says that humans typically tend to do X, Y, and Z. And I've always got to the ends of those things and just praying that I would see another like, okay, and here's the end of the article. Here's 15 ways you can actually use this shit.

It never happens.

You could just Google Chase Hughes anywhere, or you can go to chasehughes.com. Pretty simple. And you can check out our YouTube channel I have with three other behavioral experts where we dissect true crime interviews, people that say they were impregnated by aliens and tell you whether or not they're telling the truth or not.

And with science-based, research-based things, we'll break it down and teach you how to do it in your daily life. Whether or not you're interviewing a babysitter, when stuff like that is really critical, you can learn to do that yourself. And that is called the Behavior Panel on YouTube.

Likewise. Thanks for having me, Heather.

Tremendous. Yeah. I just kind of learned to mask it growing up. I got my start doing that in my whole career. Like some girl... Turned me down one night and I just asked her on a date and I went home and I literally typed into Google how to tell when girls like you and printed out a giant stack of stuff, went down the wormhole and got addicted to reading behavior.

And I got addicted to behavior profiling because I could see people's insecurities, their fears. I could see all kinds of stuff way behind the curtain after a while. And I started realizing that everybody else is screwed up too. Everybody's screwed up. Everybody's suffering. Everybody's insecure. Then I'm like, oh, it's not just me. And I didn't feel superior to anybody.

It was just, it made people more human. And I think it just injected some empathy into me that I think that's the number one thing that's lacking in people with social anxiety is that empathy factor that that guy's screwed up too. That guy has insecurities or that woman does just as well as anybody else.

It seemed like a superpower. So I wanted to study reading people. And then once you can read people, you can persuade them on a completely different level. It's not just the normal, here's a persuasion technique. That technique becomes surgically sharp when I know the exact way that this person's brain works. So I wanted to compound this into a superpower and I couldn't find it.

So I wound up spending my life putting this stuff together and eventually started bringing this into education. intelligence operations and overseas interrogations. And I wanted to make this a tool to where it wasn't just something that I did, but something that was saving people's lives.

And that's what really pushed me over the edge to really get obsessed with this stuff because it was so effective.

It's hard only because they've got a we've got it figured out mentality. We've paid some guy a bunch of money, which means that your information, it's free, so it couldn't be very valuable. which I was offering it for free. And at that time, there was a lot of budget constraints and things like that. But bringing it in, I only asked that you test it out. If it doesn't work, then don't use it.

I'll teach 10 people. And if it's not the best, then don't ever use it again.

It did. And it does. Yes.

One thing I think that's an essential ingredient in doing any of this stuff, surprisingly, is confidence. And I think that confidence is a manufacturable trait or skill, whatever the heck label you want to stick on it. But it's so hardwired into us to feel unconfident because it's a default to safety.

And if you go back 100 million years, when our brains were evolving, go back 200 million years, our brains were still evolving back then. You know, the average group of people was about 100 to 150 in a little tribe. And if you were overly confident and got smacked down, you had social consequences, which means you probably wouldn't have sex or reproduce.

Your DNA stops existing the moment you become too confident for your britches, we say in Texas. But that moment also happens when if I'm overconfident and I piss off the wrong guy, now I'm just dead. I get thrown off a cliff or I get my head smashed with a club. That was millions of years of that stuff happening. And so we have an existential fear that happens there.

And it's the same part of our brain. If you stick your fingers in your ears, that's the part of the brain that we're working with. It's all in the limbic system. So all of our fear is right in there.

And back in this time, a million years ago, if you didn't feel that fear, like if you're walking past a bush and a stick breaks and you don't care about it and it's a saber-toothed tiger, it's kind of a big deal. Luckily, none of our ancestors died a virgin. None. So, you know, we all got that instinct passed down.

So literally the exact same part of the brain that's afraid of a saber tooth tiger is the same part of the brain telling you, no, you shouldn't ask for a discount on that coffee. Don't do it. So our brain is thinking there's a tiger. I will get killed or I won't reproduce.

So it's interesting in that regard, thinking of it from an evolutionary perspective, just understanding and just getting a grip on the knowledge that there is a little animal in there that's afraid of tigers standing with you in Starbucks. And it's trying to tell you like the tiger is going to get you if you ask for a discount on your coffee or whatever.

And I think it helps to just understand that there's no tigers. There are no tigers. And just repeating that and understanding that there's a little piece of my brain. It's not my conscious human part of my brain that's doing that. It's an evolutionary holdover. It's a little residue from how we evolved.

And just the knowledge that that is in there really does help to understand, well, that thought wasn't real. And you had a quote in an interview. I don't remember where it was. I stalked you on YouTube, you know, before we did our recording here. But you had a quote. You said fear is a lie or fear is a liar. One of those two.

Yeah, that really rang true because it's not a truthful fear that's going to represent I'm in some kind of danger. And what we're doing is like what we need to feel confident in these tribes when our ancestors are growing up. is proof. If this guy respects me, this guy's always respected me, and everyone's always listened to everything I say, I have evidence and proof.

Those are the two things that we're scanning for, and that gives me permission. And that's the key word. Once I see evidence and proof, now I have permission to act a certain way. I can be more confident. But most of us and people who lack confidence, of course me on many occasions, We're looking and waiting for evidence and proof or permission that is never going to come.

No one's going to come tap you on the shoulder and say, hey, hey, Heather, you've got permission to be confident today. That's never going to happen. And no one needs to. You can do that yourself. Or if you need it from me, you've got permission. And that's the thing, that we need some kind of permission.

And that's where the confidence ladder really starts. And there's three things internally and two things externally in my estimation that happen when confidence occurs. We have an internally assumed permission to act. So I just think there's no tigers, nobody's gonna give me permission, I'm gonna start acting a certain way.

And that produces the next phase internally for us is a lack of reservation and doubt. So it reduces reservations, it reduces the amount of doubt that we experience. And the third thing is it gives us a sense of authority. And I want you to think of the word authority a little bit different. Like the first part of that word is author. I'm creating what's happening right now. I'm not responding.

I'm involved in the creation of what's happening right now. And once you feel like the author of this situation or this part of your life, then it goes external. And that there's an external acceptance from the other person. Because guess what? Those other people around you, they won't act confident without proof either.

So they will assume automatically assume that if you're acting a certain way, you have proof other places. You have already gotten proof from other people. If he's acting this way or she, they must be respected by everybody. So they automatically get something called social proof just from that confident behavior. And the true essence of confidence is the final stage here.

So it started with internal permission. And now we're passing the permission over to the other person to act in a different way. So the true power of confidence is in your ability to transfer it to someone else and not just possess it. If you go to the dark side of that, like Frank Abagnale, catch me if you can, his true power of confidence was to give it to others.

He made other people confident in him. And that turns into a chain reaction because the moment that it works just for a little bit, your brain collects a piece of data. And we're looking for evidence and proof. And your brain starts to collect that from the first time that you just push yourself and get that done.

It was like just a couple of paragraphs. Who put it out? I don't remember. I don't know. But you just probably type in government statement drones and it'll it'll be coming up. But if you're seeing it's close to a political event, it's being repeated. And then the final way to tell if something is a psyop is stories evolve over time.

And that was all under Sidney Gottlieb, who's the OSS director, I think, at that time. Was that his position? No. Was he? I think he was. He was the head of MKUltra.

If you never hear anything about it, if something is a psyop, it tends to go away after it has served its purpose. So you're not going to hear any more about the drone. If it's a psyop, you're not going to keep hearing about it if it's serving its purpose. Because when psyops are in play, they're in play and then they're out.

Then they're done with the news cycle because someone's influencing the news cycle to serve a purpose and it no longer serves the purpose. So now go back to talking about whatever, something else. So you see something disappear from the news cycle, just rewind and look at what the event was that was hiding underneath it.

Wow. The whole thing says nothing.

So a nuke or a piece of nuclear material went missing. So even if like, let's say a dentist's office gets robbed and they get an x-ray machine stolen, that machine most likely runs off of something called cobalt, which is a radioactive element. Okay. And that has to get reported. It's a big deal. Oh, really? Yeah. So there are, even if you like you order, let's say you ordered,

Yeah. But I think he ran that with, and Hoover was kind of sideways involved in that.

30 elevator counterweights go up Steve so you know have you ever been in an elevator and you see the like a glass elevator you see those giant stack of like lead weights that kind of go up and down the counterweight the elevator right if you order a bunch of those you'll be on an FBI watch list

because you can shield these things and hide these things using big thick pieces of lead and the cheapest and most effective way to do that is using elevator counterweight so you can buy at a junkyard and a lot of times if you go to a place that makes granite countertops or anything like that granite can set off a large concentration of lots of granite like a truck full of granite

can also hide it because granite gives off radioactive isotopes all the time that are harmless. But it can give off the same kind of signature radioactive isotope. So I'm not an expert in any of this.

Can shield it from being detected, yeah.

And I have the only existing, well, I have the digital copies of all those letters between him and this guy named Dr. George Estabrooks at Colgate University who were involved and had developed a plan, which I don't think has ever been released by the government, but I found it in Dr. Estabrooks' personal effects and his files. And I'll send you a copy.

Let's Google it.

Maybe not Google.

So that was December 3rd. Is there a more recent? If you go to the top, it says incident numbers and they're in blue or event numbers. This is 57455. Yeah, what is that? There's 57456 that happened afterward. You want to go to this one? The first one? No, we're on 55 right now. How about 70?

I don't know. Sure. You've got the steering wheel.

They shot one down. NYPD did last night. Really? Yeah. If you go on Twitter right now and type in drone shot down NYPD.

Now, there's a picture of the NYPD holding it with the black beanies on and stuff. Yeah, they're shooting them down. Whoa. Keep going. See if you can find a cool picture. For like eight bucks, if you have a 12 gauge, for I think eight or nine dollars, you can get a box of shells that have a net that's designed to shoot down drones. Really? And it captures them? Yeah. Captured in the net. No way.

You can put it in the show notes if you want to. But they had a plan to hypnotize. And Dr. Esther Brooks was a classic hypnotist. But he says, I could split someone's personality in such and such amount of time and make them do anything. I could make them forget who they know. And he says, I can do it to an army officer. Here's the step-by-step guide. I'll send you all of this.

Wait, take off NJ. Just drone shot down NYPD. There it is. Which one? On the left. Far left, right there. That one?

So Amogee Incorporated is funded by BlackRock.

Steve, will you look that up?

It's just BlackRock's like in the middle of everything that's going on. Yeah, I mean, they invest in so much shit.

I don't know. It just seems like this was made for TV. Yes. Everything that's happened in the last five years. Yes. Just straight out of... What did Joe Rogan say? He said like, this season of America is... Is the wildest.

Oh, he's the... Wait. Really quick. So, Benny Hinn is an evangelical pastor. He is world-renowned for healing and using the Spirit of God to heal people and all that stuff. And...

Let me start by saying this. There is a chance and maybe a good possibility. He believes that what he's doing is the Lord's work. That he's not deliberately using hypnosis and all that kind of stuff. Because you hear him say, I don't know how this all works. I don't know what's going on. So maybe that's true. I'll just go off of that assumption. We'll assume the best about him.

So when a stage hypnosis show starts and we're talking, have you ever been to one? No. Like a comedy hypnosis? No. They are, you need to go. If you ever have a chance, they're worth it. Okay. Is this guy still in business? I don't know.

I'll even send you the step-by-step guide that he produced. Do you remember any of it? The steps? Yeah. Oh, easy. Yeah. What was it? Wait, let me finish this real quick. So the guy has this plan sent off to J. Edgar Hoover involving this other guy named Dr. Milton Erickson, who's like the grandfather of hypnotherapy. He's the reason that hypnotherapy is accepted by the American Medical Association.

No, I mean a hypnosis show, an actual hypnosis. Oh, this is not a comedy club. Oh, no, no, no. So in a comedy club or a mass group hypnosis show where you would demonstrate hypnosis, one of the first things you do is kind of get the crowd riled up. But the second thing you do is demonize the people who are not going to go into trance. Demonize those people.

And so I got a good friend of mine, Rich Guzzi. He's a stage hypnotist, comedian, hilarious dude. He starts off his act by saying – You might be one of these people, but there's always one dickhead. There's always one dickhead who won't go along with the crowd. There's always going to be one of those people. You might be that person.

If you're looking around the table and you don't see one of them, maybe you're that person. So it's always you want people to disidentify. So remember, we're talking about identity. Who am I? So there's always going to be one of those people. And so what we're going to be doing is something that's good for you. It's something that's fun. No photography is going to be allowed.

So just automatically addressing all the concerns very covertly but without anybody asking any questions.

And then some people are worried about this. So here, let me tell you what hypnosis is. It's not a coma. It's not sleep. You're not going to be deaf. You'll hear my voice the entire time. You're going to remain in complete control. You're going to be doing this voluntarily. Absolutely voluntarily. And it's going to feel absolutely fantastic. And 15 minutes of hypnosis is like a three-hour nap.

It's equal to a three-hour nap. I made all those statistics up, but it would sound something like that. Right. So- And this crowd is primed as tribal hypnosis. And you'll see people do this to convince people of facts. Like if you watch the John Oliver show, for example, it'll be a rapid fact that they want you to believe followed by immediate laughter. So you're not really criticizing it.

You're hearing a lot of other people laughing so that your brain focuses on tribe and says, okay, lots of people are laughing. It must be true. Bam, they'll throw a joke in there before you can critically analyze any of the information. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's every episode. Many different shows, not just John.

So what's happening is... So hypnosis is a mixture of suggestibility, focus, and dissociation. Just those three things. So what creates the suggestibility is expectancy. Remember we talked about that. That was one of the things on the six things that influence human beings. So expectancy means... I know what's going to happen when I walk up on stage.

I know what's going to happen when he waves his coat. If you do a blind placebo study where he goes up to a bunch of strangers at a Yankees game and waves his coat, they're all going to be like, what is this guy doing? Because there's no expectancy that happens there. But these people know what's going to happen. Right.

But one of the ways I do it is building a lot of expectancy and compliance, expectancy and compliance. So let's say I'm doing that. Let me show you how this works in a bar. And then I want you to make the correlations yourself. So let's say, have you ever been hypnotized before? No. Okay. Well, it's actually a fun experience.

And there's different ways that some people can go deeply into hypnosis. Some people can't. If you have an IQ below 90, you can't be hypnotized. It's been proven.

I made that up. Okay. But so do you see what I'm starting to do? I'm starting to go down the, remember I told you one of the needs is intelligence. And so we call the ability to be hypnotized unconscious power. And some people have low power, some people have high power. So now I'm addressing strength and power needs, right? So some people have a better connection with their unconscious mind.

So, and this other person, Margaret Mead, who is involved right now, and they have a plan to capture and hypnotize a German submarine captain. Give him a split personality. Send him back into his own harbor where he'll torpedo all of his own ships. And this was a legit plan that they were working on. They had all these steps laid out. So they've been doing this for a long time, a very long time.

You see high-performing athletes, high-performing CEOs, they have that perfect connection with their unconscious mind. They're the easiest people to hypnotize. Now I just hit significance on that needs map. So every way that you could view yourself as needing something from another person, I've just hit them all. So actually, you know what? Stand right here. So I'll have somebody stand up.

Stand right here. So I've just given them an order. I didn't ask. And they complied. That's it. All right. Come a little closer to me. Next order. Compliance. All right. Now spread your feet just a little bit further apart. All right. Great. A little bit closer together. Great. Now put your hands out. All right. Great. Now look at me. Great. Now close your eyes just really quick.

I just want to test one thing. And I'm just going to do like five or six things. All these things I'm doing are meaningless. They've given in to you, to your will. Right. So now we haven't even started the process. I've got you just to comply with orders on command. Right. So now I'm going to start the hypnosis process.

I'm going to be like, all right, so go ahead and start taking a deep breath into your abdomen. And I follow my finger. I'm going to do this kind of little finger thing like this. I'm going to do what's called the upside-down T. It's probably the best thing to knock somebody out in public. If you follow my finger, I'm not going to do it to you.

We're going to go this way, this way, back to the center, and then all the way up. So anytime you get those eyes to roll to the center of the forehead, you can feel like if you try to look right here, there's a reflex of almost like kind of sending you back, making you kind of go into hypnosis a tiny bit.

So then I'm doing all this stuff and I'm gaining all this compliance and then I say, all right, remember when you go into hypnosis, you're going to be able to stand and maintain perfect balance. You're going to be able to maintain perfect balance even when you go very, very deep. So I just set expectancy for what's going to happen.

Now I'm saying right when I say sleep, your head's going to droop forward, your body's going to get completely loose, but I don't want that to scare you. So I'm pretending like this is a little safety briefing, but I'm telling you what to do. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. So your head might fall down and get really loose and your eyes might close.

You're going to feel a need for those eyes closed and that's totally normal. You can just let them close because you'll get even more benefit out of this. And now if you wanted one thing out of hypnosis, I'm one of the top hypnotists in the world. What would you pick? Would you pick more discipline, more confidence, more gratitude? What would you pick?

Yeah. More discipline. Okay. So now that you've said, I want more discipline, and I'm holding the key to that, now I've got you excited. Now I'm building your expectancy using your own desires. Right. And I always ask the question, if you could wave a magic wand, what would be the one thing that you could change about yourself or that you would add to your life?

So you get people to get excited and kind of get invested in the process. Okay, now remember, as soon as I say the word sleep, everything's going to be fine. You're going to be able to stand and maintain perfect balance, even if your head and the rest of your body just starts to droop and relax. I'm going to be right here with you the entire time.

So all I've done is got you to comply a bazillion times, told you exactly what to do, and then told you what's going to happen the moment I say sleep. And the moment I say sleep, I'm going to do a tiny little thing. Are we on camera? Yes. This will be on camera? Yeah. So stand up really quick. So like I'm going to feel the back of your head. So right here is called the occipital protuberance.

Okay. So if you can imagine this feeling, like just a tiny touch, like just like that. Yeah. And right when somebody says sleep and like that one little push. right when their eyes are moving upward and that little push to sleep, that little jerk makes their psychology go, oh, shit, something's happening. Something's going on.

And then the moment their head goes down, I'm starting to count down from 10 to 1. Why do I count down from 10 to 1? Because that's a countdown. And people think, oh, shit, he's counting down. The hypnosis thing is happening. So I'm triggering their societal experiences of what hypnosis has been.

And then I do progressive muscle relaxation, all the muscles in your face completely letting go, little muscles around your eyes just finally releasing, relaxing, unwinding, completely unraveling, just feeling absolutely perfect. As you go even deeper, as you take those deep breaths, just nonstop blather like this.

So you relax all those muscles, but what you're really doing is getting the body to relax to such a state and getting that person to trust you enough to where their brain goes into theta. That's all it is. Hypnosis is just theta. I'm just getting the brain into a theta wave state. So I'm getting the body to relax. They go into theta. So that's what's happening here.

Everybody here has massive compliance, massive compliance. They've been following him for a while. They've seen thousands of people fall out on stage. So he never needs to tell anybody what's going to happen again because he has this long demonstrated history of like, bam, I knock my coat and these people go down. And now you come up on stage, there's 10,000 people.

Watching you and it's just you and me and I've got my little coat. Are you going to be the asshole? Right. Are you going down? Wow. That's a tremendous amount of social pressure.

So what are the steps of splitting somebody's personality? Steps are easy. So I'll give you the more advanced version because that was kind of rudimentary what they had back then. But I'll give you the documents to put in the PDF or whatever in the link down below. So our personalities are very fragile, right? And most people don't realize it.

But at the same time, they're desiring positive benefit from this, which makes them want to fully let go and completely participate in the entire thing. Wow. So there's many different psychological avenues that are happening at the same time. So it's a good thing. If they walk out of there and they say, that's the best day of my life, whatever they spent in this church was worth it.

It was beneficial. Yeah.

So there's people that say, oh, he's a con artist or whatever. A psychologist does tricks on you, too. Right. You know? So... Maybe people get benefit from it. He may be bilking people for lots of money. I don't know the guy. I don't know anything about this industry. But I do know brains. So that's what hypnosis really is. So what I just gave to you

Literally, someone could take what I just did and go hypnotize a stranger exactly with what I just did. All you got to do to wake them up is tell them, I'm going to wake you up. The moment I say five, you'll be awake. One, two, three, four, five. Wide awake.

And I just got into body language because I was rejected by a girl when I was like 19. And I was stationed in Pearl Harbor. So we were down in Waikiki. And basically she just says, no, thank you. Like really mean, like right to my face. And it hurt. It was like a heart impact to me. And I went home that night and typed into Google how to tell when girls like you.

Yeah. Because you're compliance, compliance, compliance, compliance. And at the beginning, I'll often say something like, I've been doing this a long time. I can tell you're in the top, maybe top 5% of hypnotizability, which we call unconscious power or unconscious connection.

and i made those words up just to just to kind of go along with what a person needs to feel and i'll say the only thing that you have to do to go into hypnosis is do every single thing that i say are you good with that and i'll be like yeah so they're subconsciously yeah yeah yeah So that does two things. Number one, it gets them to completely agree to let go.

When I say let go, they have to let go. Number two, it gets them to say, yeah, I will do everything you say. So if they say they're not going into hypnosis, then it's their fault because they're just not following instructions. Right. Yeah. The first guy who discovered a lot of this stuff was named Franz Mesmer. And that's where the term mesmerized comes from. Really? Yeah. Franz Mesmer.

So he didn't call it hypnotism. He called it animal magnetism. So he believed and he wasn't a charlatan by any means. He believed that by waving these big water magnets and stuff all around people that he would he would heal them. But these people had an expectation of being healed. So he started producing results.

Right. And the body's powerful. They did a study up in – I think it was the University of Montreal in Canada. They took this busted-ass MRI machine with a Bluetooth speaker in it that makes MRI noises, that just makes big machine noises. And they brought kids in there and told these kids up to the age of like 16 –

That this machine was special built to cure migraines or dermatitis or eczema or allergies or sleep problems. And it cured them.

It fixed all those things. Even allergies got fixed with this fake MRI with a Bluetooth speaker. Just because there's an expectation of healing.

It's a powerhouse. And that's why the one thing that pisses me off is when people use the term placebo effect to talk about someone being tricked. Like, that's not what that is. The placebo effect is how powerful your brain is, not how gullible. Right. It's a measure of power, not stupidity.

And if you have an authority figure, you can split a personality. So let's imagine that I'm a psychiatrist or a psychologist and you come to me and you say, hey, I've been having this anxiety or I've been having a little feeling of depression or loneliness or something.

We have to factor in two things. What if the first group of people had a 22-year-old pimple-faced kid go in there and explain how powerful the MRI is? And the next group had a 6'4", 60-year-old, gray-haired, perfectly well-manicured doctor in a lab coat. Yeah. They're going to get different results.

Yeah.

So they're all on the same diet as well? Yeah. Perfectly exactly the same. Same humans. Same humans. Okay. So I would say it's their level of suggestibility. Okay. Natural suggestibility. Okay. So people that had a pretty decent life that weren't mistrusting of adults, especially if we're dealing with kids.

You know, the most hypnotizable people I've ever seen are like giant NFL football players and NBA basketball player dudes. Really? Huge alpha male type guys. Yeah. Why? I don't know. I think, A, they have a superior ability to visualize. Yeah. And that's what makes – I think that's what makes it – I'm not even making this up.

That's what makes a good CEO a good leader is can they visualize outcomes that they want. So when I see my one-on-one clients, we spend seven hours – teaching them to visualize. And I'm saying, I'm going to spend an hour with you as my client with that pen right there. And you're going to spend two minutes memorizing every detail.

And then you're going to take 30 seconds to close your eyes and rebuild it in your head. Then I'm going to give you two seconds. Open your eyes, pick up a detail that you missed, close your eyes, rebuild it again. Again, again, again, again, hundreds of times. And then I'll increase the complexity with something that has more reflections, more details.

Then it will train your brain to visualize better and better and better. And that's a huge problem that most people can't visualize. Or they're visualizing negative stuff by default just because that's what mammals do.

Yeah, sort of.

This would not be a memory training tool. This would be a visualizing in the moment tool.

And I say, well, have you ever had an instance where one part of you wants to do one thing and the other part doesn't really do that? And everyone's, 100% of people are going to say yes to that. 100%. But you'll say, yeah, yeah, actually, yeah, when it comes to like cheesecake or something, I don't want to eat the cheesecake because I know it's going to make me fat, but I'll go eat the cheesecake.

I would.

I would lean towards that being a physiological connectivity issue. Yeah. But. So the reason I want them to be hyper visualizers is because when I hypnotize them, they have a wildly different experience because inside my client's head, I build a medical laboratory in their head where they can give themselves injections, do body scans. I had a client just two years ago.

We built this like an MRI machine scanner inside of her medical lab, which all my clients have these little doorways and stuff where they can do cool stuff with their head and their brain. I do this with professional athletes and boxers. We're doing F1 racers. Wow. The Formula One guys. So in the med lab, this woman was scanning her body.

And so I have everybody like you build the scanner, lay on the bed, let's turn it on with your hand. There's a control down here. And she scanned her body and said, there's like this white glow. She didn't tell me she, after she woke up after out of trance, she said, there's this white, like glowing ball down here. Ovarian teratoma, big ass tumor.

She found it on her own body scan in her head. So there's something to it, man. That's wild. I don't think we give our brains enough credit. They're really powerful. And Darren Brown, you know who he is? No. He's a British guy. He, Miracles for Sale, I think it was called.

He did a whole documentary about this where he pretended to be a religious person and he healed people using the same techniques. But he's a hypnotist. So he pretended to be religious and did kind of a tour of curing people and stuff and had similar – exact same results pretty much. Really? Yeah. That's wild, man. Truly fascinating. But that visualizing is so powerful.

And I hate to – have you ever seen the Blue Angels do a flight briefing?

This is going to change your life. Let's find it. Type in Blue Angels flight. There we go. Turn that shit up.

Astronauts will do this too.

Everyone's eyes are closed. See that throttle hand?

We'll take it as a simple thing. And I'll say, all right, so what if that part of you had a name? What would the name of that part be? And you're like, oh, I don't know, Michael. You made up a name. All right, so what? Let's say let's go back and forth. Like, what does Michael want? OK, Michael wants this. But what is what is what does Danny want?

It's fucking insane. Amazing.

Yeah. Every single muscle movement. Oh, my God.

Yeah. And they fly with a 40-pound spring. What's that mean? So your main flight stick, right, is pulled back with a 40-pound spring. So you're always at 40 pounds of pressure when you're flying only that plane, the Blue Angel planes. Right. I think the F-18s are 12-pound springs.

When you have any tier one unit, like a steel team unit, like maybe team six Delta dudes, you'll see mission rehearsals that look exactly like this. Everybody's going through that same process, man. And these are the best in the world and they are visualizing success. People say to do this and people are like, oh yeah, I like to visualize.

I have a vision board that I keep on my Walmart picture, digital picture frame on my desk. That's fucking visualizing right there. I mean, it's real. It's fucking real, man. Yeah, I was tempted to make like a huge video, a YouTube video on that and just talk about how important it is. Yeah. And my kids, I think the first time we talked on the phone, I had Miss Rachel in the background.

And you were like, oh, I know Miss Rachel. Oh, yeah, I know. So the Sticky Bubblegum song, which I'm sure... Sticky, sticky, sticky, sticky bubblegum. Yeah. So I wanted to make a video on YouTube about how important that visualization is. And my kids, I made them a checklist one time. Like, here's your perfect checklist of every day. I'm up at this time. I brush my teeth before this time.

I feed the dogs. I take care of the stuff I'm supposed to do. My assignments are turned in before 11. Blah, blah, blah. Here's all the stuff you need to do. Yeah. And they hate having a checklist. They're like, oh, we want to be treated like adults. And I was like, do you? Watch this video. Do you want to be treated like an adult?

I was like, you know who uses checklists and never goes away from a checklist? Surgeons, pilots, astronauts. Right. Checklist. Right. And I think that helped to reframe what that was. And I said, I have a checklist every day. You can look at my calendar. I have a checklist every single day of my life. I work from 4 a.m. to 8 p.m. every day. Do you really? I do.

This last two days, the first two days I've taken off in six years. And that's including Christmas, birthdays. I haven't taken a day off. But my company is finally at a place where I'm making money, making very decent money. And I can just start letting go of that steering wheel a little bit more. And I hired a CEO, which is the best decision I've ever made in my lifetime.

And then so I get you to have this dialogue about yourself in the third person, but you're not sure what camera angle you're looking at yourself from. Right. And if I ask you just a simple question, like, let me just ask you and answer this honestly. Like, if you picture, did you shower this morning or last night?

Because I'm not a business person. I'm a creator. I'm supposed to be an artist. Just making stuff, you know? And being a business person killed me. Like, it ruined me.

Yeah.

As an entrepreneur, which you are, The biggest lesson I learned in my life was that I had a tendency to look out in the crowd and find other entrepreneur-minded people to hire, which was so dumb. You got to hire people. A business person. You cannot hire an entrepreneur. You got to hire somebody that's Excel spreadsheet oriented, EBITDA oriented, earnings, all that.

But for anybody that's out there, that's an entrepreneur. That's hire a business person. Hire somebody just slightly autistic and obsessed with those spreadsheets and numbers and data.

That's it.

I enjoyed it.

Yeah, but we've got to hold it up. Hold it up. Look at that. The Behavioral Ops Manual. Amazon.com. Look at that.

It's like a little phone book. It really is like a little phone book. It's the textbook now for NCI. The system NCI. Thanks, man.

All right.

this uh last night so you just look up and to your left so you pictured yourself in the third person yeah why did you picture yourself in the third person who was observing you do you think that was michael so i start going down this path of doing this and then i say you know what i think the best way to clear this up is to give you the standard exam this is the standard psychological exam for multiple personality disorder and hold on whoa

So I give you this exam and it's totally made up. It doesn't even have to be an official document. And let's say it's got 10 or 12 questions on there. Do you feel like this sometimes? Do you feel like that sometimes? Do you feel like that sometimes? No matter what you score, I say, wow, you're in the 99th percentile. for having a multiple personality disorder.

And the best way that we can deal with this is to allow those parts of yourself to have a conversation with each other. So just a doctor misdiagnosing you creates a split. That's 30 minutes. That's not even the hypnosis yet. And then we get into hypnosis. And hypnosis is proven to work. Dr. David Spiegel at Stanford University is probably the premier researcher for hypnosis.

If I just get into the hypnosis part, I'm going to just essentially like I'm hammering a wedge down into a log to split that log apart. The hypnosis is just going to go in there and kind of push this wedge and allow those two beings to get further and further and further apart. Let's identify this person's personalities, their traits and their desires in life and what they want.

So they, they actually use this for therapy. And a friend of mine, Dr. Richard Nongard, wrote a book. I think I wrote the foreword to that book, maybe. But it's called Excellence in Parts Work and Parts Therapy. And Dr. Fritz Perls did this. Virginia Satir did a lot of this stuff with gestalt therapy.

And I printed out this big ass stack of paper. And just the more I learned about reading human behavior, the more I could see like everybody is suffering. Everybody that you meet is insecure. And you start being able to see all these hidden insecurities. And just coming to that realization of everybody that you meet is hiding some kind of insecurity in some way.

But it's just identifying these parts of yourself and getting familiar with what they want and what each one is, which is good.

But the moment you start getting into it and when I tell you it's pathological or when I tell you I'm going to – let's say if I was a hypnotist and I didn't have the psychiatric authority and stuff, I could say, you know what? What if you had a helper in your life who could do things for you? And I can install a helper inside your brain.

Yeah, my name is Chase Hughes. I did 20 years in the U.S. military, retired in 2019. Then did some behavioral stuff, wrote a few books that became bestsellers. And I have a YouTube channel where we break down people's behaviors and stuff. But most of my life I've been obsessed with how people are made to do things that are not in their best interest.

I could do a very good thing for you or I could make that helper do really bad stuff. So once we're designing that helper, we decide the morals and ethics and what that helper is willing to do under hypnosis. And this has been proven since the 40s and 50s. Oh, wow. It's pretty cool. It seems a lot easier than giving people drugs. It is. It is.

But again, you either have to have— You have to have the right person, though. It's either a shitload of skill and authority or a lot of skill in finding the right person. Yeah. So finding suggestible people is number one. And I wrote about this in a fiction book. I wrote a fictional book called Phrase 7, which is going to be a TV show pretty soon.

And in this book, I use something that's actually real. If you look at somebody who's been happy their whole life, you know, you can start seeing these little crow's feet because they smile a lot. You look at somebody who's socially driven, they raise their eyebrows a lot during conversations. You can see these little lines right here.

Yeah. And like somebody who's angry or mad, you know, that you'll have these two little lines that start developing. And this is in the teenage years, you'll start seeing this and we call it expression etching because it etches onto the face after a pattern of behavior. But what would you do if I told you to make a skeptical facial expression? There it is.

So the lower eyelid tightens up right here. Do it one more time so you can get a good zoom in. There we go. So all these wrinkles form down right here. So if you see somebody with a wrinkled lower eyelid, and this is my opinion. I've not tested this scientifically at all. But I have confirmed it with like five hypnotists who have confirmed it with thousands and thousands of subjects.

Sounds scientific enough to me. I like it. And if you look at – it's even in this book. There's photos of it. And if you look at a person's face and they have super smooth lower eyelids down here, they're – in my mind, they're exponentially more likely to be a suggestible candidate for that thing.

and so the bad guy in this fictional book goes to these like comedy hypnosis shows where like you get people get called up on stage and it's like oh the person next to you farted and it smells really bad and that kind of thing but he will take the number one subject from the hypnosis show and then he doesn't know how to select the right person so he just goes to the hypnosis show and he picks the most suggestible person and then just follows him out to the parking lot so

Yeah. And I wouldn't say it's a hard science. I wouldn't say most things dealing with behavior and psychology are not a hard science, no matter how much people want it to be. It's just, it's like asking Roger Federer where he went to college for tennis and like, what were your credentials? Where are the studies that you did to win all the tournaments?

I want to and I have to stop myself from doing it because I'll go. Really? Yeah. And I'm a very suggestible person. And I will go hard into that. And then I'll get into like the Twitter confirmation bias rabbit hole, which I'm sure you fell into many times. It's hard to escape. It is so hard.

And it didn't make me feel better than anybody else. It just made me feel like, oh, they're screwed up like I am. So I think I had social anxiety and that that kind of made behavior addictive to me because I could kind of see behind the curtain and it let me know that everybody else was kind of screwed up.

And I mean, not just exiting the app, but like the modifications I'm making to the way that I see the world. Yeah.

Well, just like, I'll be in my office. I wake up at like four 30 in the morning. So it'd be like before sunrise. And I'm like hunched over my desk, like just doing this. And I can feel like, Oh my God, my brain's changing. Like something. And I, and I just get out. So I have like app timers on all those things now. Yeah.

And I just published a video day before yesterday on on these drones that are happening right now. And like I just saw a few comments today, like a government plant on my computer. Yeah. On my channel. Right. So, and then somebody else says, it's a video talking about psyops. That is psyops. That is a psyops. So like, I'm trying to educate people on how to spot psyops. And that's also a psyops.

It's so deep. Yeah, man. So. I think there's a tendency for a lot of people to tie those – I always imagine those – like in the movies, the house of like the crazy schizophrenic who's got maps and photos all over the wall. Yeah, yeah, the always sunny guy. Yeah, yarn and stuff like that. Like I think those people have a tendency to just tie yarn as much as they can to everything that's going on.

And it's just like – Not every part. Granted, that stuff happens. Of course, that stuff happens. But I don't think every single thing that happens in the news is straight out of some Tom Clancy novel. Yeah. Where there's a million backstories to it.

I did a bunch of psychology classes when I was in the military and went to a university that was kind of like if you pay your military money, they pass you kind of a thing. Mm-hmm. But after I retired from the military, that's when I started. Education was free, essentially. So I did a postgraduate program for neuroscience at Harvard.

Oh, because there's not a lot of gamma out in the air, I guess. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Anybody at home right now, we're two idiots talking about this. Yeah, of course.

So and it's I think there's. there's an element of PSYOP to a lot of stuff that's going on. If you look, I mean, it depends on how you define PSYOP. Like, is it a government funded thing? Because every commercial, if you watch an infomercial, that's a PSYOP. They're all just, let me find the target. Let me get them to do what I want them to do. But I think you had a guy on here.

I can't remember his name. Super smart guy talking about Havana syndrome.

Yeah, and Len was a victim of some of this stuff. And I published a paper from a science perspective a year or two ago on Havana syndrome. And I'll give you the PDF to throw in the show notes. But what I suggested in that paper was if I wanted to affect mass control, I only need to use a real weapon on 10 to 55, maybe 100 people.

And then the sound of that weapon gets replayed on the news, the cricket sound, over and over and over. And then it's so scary to a population and everyone's so familiar with the sound that I no longer need the weapon. I just need a speaker. So I can create what's called a psychogenic illness. And this is very common. So you can create, you've been trained for months and months and months.

You've been seeing all these people get injured by these weapons with brain damage and confusion, migraine headaches. You're trained to associate that sound with all of those symptoms because it's so much in the news cycle. So then at the final stage, you don't need the weapon anymore. You don't need to smuggle in some crazy weapon.

Yeah. And you make it dissociating enough where the sound's pretty loud. You can use a device like an LRAD. The civilian can buy an LRAD, a long-range acoustic device. You can buy it online for like $3,500. Yeah.

I've used LRAD many times, not for any weird psyops, but we have them on the bridge wing. So that top left photo right there, that is called the bridge wing. So that's on the, like where you control a ship. So you have like the bridge or the pilot house where the wheel is. And it's got two little outdoor sections right there. So on Navy ships, those will be on the bridge wing.

And then I did the standard neuroscience and medical neuroscience program at Duke University. Oh, wow.

And that's kind of a we don't want to shoot somebody warning system. Right. And it's got a little aiming, like a little red dot sight. And you rotate that thing down. You can use it as kind of an early warning system to tell a boat that they need to turn around. Oh, wow. There's one being used by the Navy right there. Holy shit, dude.

But it is a long-range weapon, and you can almost not even hear it from behind it. It's so quiet. And the cone is so small. And this is probably 20—this photo is probably from 20, maybe 15 years ago. I can tell just by looking at the system and that he's wearing a flak jacket instead of steel plates.

Yeah, but that's an older system. Yeah. Now they have something called a sound laser that they use for the exact same thing. But this is, I mean, it's not some crazy technology. It's just I'm sending sound through a little laser aperture. Is that what that is right there?

No. We did have laser guns that looked like an M4 that had a giant battery pack on them. And they were just kind of blinding lasers. So it would shoot out a bazillion little lights. I don't know how they work. I know how to use it. Right. But they called it a dazzler. But it wasn't very dazzling. I'm sure it did some permanent damage to people. Yeah.

It's called the quiet zone.

I'd be curious. And Lynn, if you're watching this, I mean no offense at all. But I'd be curious to have somebody who's suffering those attacks. If we took them to a place that they 100% believed was a quiet zone, if the attacks would stop. If any element of that is somehow psychogenic, which doesn't discredit them at all. They're still experiencing the symptoms. Right.

Is it – did it start with a weapon and is it continuing because of a psychogenic or a – some kind of issue like that? But I'd be curious to know.

I have no explanation for any of that stuff. So for anybody that's going through that, I'm so uneducated. So take what I just said and I'm just throwing it out there.

And that was originally... They started that in the 1950s with Dr. Jorge Delgado, I think, at Harvard University. He put it inside of a bull's head, if I remember. That's been a long time. Yeah, this is what... Jack was talking about this on the podcast where they were trying to... He did it to a little girl, too, which doesn't get a lot of media.

There are. That's the U.S. Army. So the U.S. Army is kind of subdivided. You have like the Special Operations Command and then you have a bunch of stuff under there and PSYOPs falls under the Special Operations Command. So it's mostly Army. When you think about any PSYOPs, you're going to think Army. That's when the Army is involved 100%. So that branch, I didn't start until I was a civilian.

And it was... She thought he was her dad, and they...

I don't think I'm in any danger, but do you ever start looking at some of this and feel like I might fall off of like a schizophrenia cliff looking at some of this stuff?

yeah so i had i had a mentor who was an intelligence guy psychiatrist but when i was like 20 something years old he was in his mid 70s but he one time told me something that scared the hell out of me and he said this hypothetically to me but he said if if we ever captured somebody and we want to completely discredit them

During the interview, interrogation, during whatever's happening, I'm going to have someone in a clown suit walk by and squirt water on them with a flower. I'm going to have a person dressed as a giraffe come in there and touch them on the head. I'm going to have the craziest stuff happen. mixing in with the sleep deprivation so that all of his testimony sounds schizophrenic.

And that's what I think of when I see some of this stuff, like all of these websites and I'm like, how much is just added on to make it over dramatized to where it's just too much. I do too.

No.

I got out. I'd been developing all these programs my whole life to try to improve all of our intelligence training. And I realized maybe halfway through my career, and you can imagine when somebody says like, oh, this is military grade. If you talk to somebody who was in the military, that's the opposite. Like we're thinking like, oh, that's a piece of shit.

Yeah. Fucking genius. I remember reading that. They've been doing that forever. Yeah. Let's just overdo it. Let's just make the story 10 times crazier than it should be.

And one of the things, man, like if I could slightly change this track that we're on. One of the fastest ways I've ever discovered is to get somebody off of one track of thinking and start getting them to start believing something else. You've heard of the Kubler-Ross grief model before where it's like denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

And it's like the five stages of grief that we all go through. It's debated maybe on Wikipedia or something, but I subscribe to it. And I've witnessed it a bunch of times. Yeah.

And conversationally, you can walk someone through those five stages of grief without them even knowing that they're going through that process and get them to relinquish control over a previously held belief or a previously held whatever you want them to get rid of. And it is so fast.

I've used it in interrogations before, and I've used it in just situations where I want to get somebody's mind to change on anything. So if I think of something like you have a belief of X, and I want to change it, like you're holding on to this belief. Let's say I'm a door-to-door sales guy, and I'm selling you solar. Mm-hmm.

And I want to get you out of the mindset that like solar is for X number of people or this type of person. All I have to do is get you to denial. I say one or two things to get you angry. Then I start talking about like the different options that you have and get you into a bargaining mindset.

And then talk about how all of your options are limited and like everything is so far out of our control and like push you into depression. And then I get you into acceptance a thousand times easier, a thousand times faster. So one of my clients owns a solar roofing company out on the West Coast. And he goes door or he owns a company that goes kind of door to door. And I gave this to him.

I didn't know if it would work in this situation, but they use this in door to door sales now and they can just wipe somebody's not wipe it, but get someone over their, their emotional ties to something that they held previously. Wow. It's a, it's a fascinating thing. Just identifying that grief cycle. And then,

But because I thought like all of this intelligence training has to be cool. It's got to be like Jason Bourne level persuasion and influence training and stuff. Come to find out taking the class, even going to like recruiting school to recruit people.

I'm not just looking at it as a psychologist or a psychiatrist and like, oh, this is what humans go through. I'm looking at it as like, oh, that's what humans go through. Why don't I just make you go through it and get you out of something that you used to be in?

I don't know. I think they do target high net worth neighborhoods.

people really i think they do those neighborhoods for sure because i know he's got a lot of those clients man he's the most interesting dude ever you should have him on the show i don't know if he would talk about aliens and stuff but he's he's a cool dude but that just that grief model was so powerful in understanding you know what shapes our behavior and what can change our behavior because all the evidence everything that you need to know is out there

There's all these studies of like, this is how humans process this. This is how humans respond to authority, like we talked about.

But even more important than that is if we could kind of get on this influence train for a second is, and this goes back to all this conspiracy stuff and how people get wrapped up in it, is everything that you look at, like if you search YouTube right now for influence training or persuasion or how to have confidence or charisma, you know, fill in the blank, whatever you want.

They're going to teach you how to change someone's thoughts and ideas. But if you can get down to the mammalian brain, now you're changing identity. So identity is what you truly want to change. You want someone to finish a conversation by in their head saying, I am the type of person who blank. Not I think blank, but I am. You want them to make an I am statement.

Robert Cialdini has done studies on this and written books about it. He wrote Pre-Suasion, which was a great book about it. But so much of what people think influences us is what influences a human brain, not what influences the mammalian part of our brain, the limbic system, this lower part of our brain.

If someone can influence that in any of us, myself included, I don't have some influence vaccine as suggestible as the next person. if I can get to how I influence a mammal, which we were talking about this before we hit record, if I can influence the mammalian part of the brain, I can get somebody to do just about anything.

And that's in that model that we talked about or that we brought up on screen.

the the training was like give people firm handshakes look them in the eye use their name when you're talking to them maybe touch them on the shoulder every once in a while it was like it was like dale carnegie right that's all it was right and i i was stunned stunned that that was the best we had to offer that was the best that we could give an intelligence operative and that was the reason that

And I had no experience, no credentials, nothing coming out of the military. So I offered a 200% money back guarantee on my fee, which I couldn't have paid. I could not have paid it. I was terrified the first case that I took. And I was up like three days in a row trying to prepare for just profiling one person. And that's kind of what put me on the radar for some of those people.

And once I developed this chart, it looks like the periodic table of elements. It's called the behavioral table of elements. And we can bring it up there. It's fascinating. Let me just walk you through this thing really quick. It's a map of- This thing right here. No, no, no. Oh, no. Just Google behavioral table of elements and you'll see it up there.

But essentially, it's every behavior that a human being can do rated from least deceptive to most deceptive. And it's free online. I don't charge money for it or anything. That's it. So each one of those is a little human behavior, and they're rated from least deceptive to most deceptive. Okay. And each one of those cells is some kind of thing, like SHG right there is shrug.

And if it's in blue letters, that means you're more likely to see that behavior during cold temperatures, which takes away from the meaning of it. So this is like the ultimate one-page guide to reading a human being. This is all of our behavior. Okay.

So all on here, you can see how likely it is to be deceptive, whether or not you're going to see it before, during, or after someone's statement, or the score of deception, the behaviors that are going to confirm your findings, the behaviors that are going to amplify it and give you more information. So everything on the right is the most deceptive or most stress.

There's no behavior for deception. And everything on the left is the least. They're the most comfortable. Everything in like that turquoise is facial expressions. And everything on the very bottom is what happens outside of our bodies. Like how we interact with like objects on the table and the stuff that we actually say. Like I'm rising vocal pitch, increasing speed, a non-answer statement.

So the biggest two things are going to be authority and novelty. So if we go back like, I don't know, 20,000 years, the average group of human beings was 120, 150 people in these tribal societies. Let's say you went out and fished every day, came home every day and brought the fish back to your tribe. Let's say every day you pass by almost the same pathway and you walk by this one bush.

And one day you're walking by this bush and the sun's about to set and a stick snaps behind that bush. That has all of your attention. You're not thinking about your kids. You're not worried about the food that you're holding. You're not worried about whether or not you have to go to the bathroom. Every piece of your focus.

You're not even caring about your family right now for that one or two seconds that that stick is snapping behind that bush. So- When our brain is running a program of prediction, which is what we're doing now, we have conversations. I'm going to predict that in a few seconds you're going to say something, and then you know that I'm going to say something.

You know, we had some of those terror attacks. So I started training psyops in 2019 was the first time. And that just training psyops, they soaked it up so much because they were starving for some kind of training like that for so long because they've been going off of these PowerPoints that say, like, get to know the person you're talking to. And that's it. It doesn't say how.

And if I'm driving, I have a script for that. If you can just get good at scripts, it will change your life in understanding behavioral scripts. So what is a person's script really saying? So if I'm running a script that says I'm walking back to my tribe with fish right now and that script is interrupted, that's when we generate mammalian brain focus. So we interrupt something that was expected.

So I expected nothing to happen and then something was back there. So our brain generates focus to respond to two different things, which is a potential threat or potential value.

So if you're in the car, any kind of wild movement out of the corner of your eye, even if you're like texting and driving, anything that looks different than my brain's scripted responses, it says there's a potential threat. Does that make sense? Yeah. So anything that's novelty that breaks away helps so much.

And if you watch an episode of Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan, the way that he trains dogs is step one, let's break the script. I'm going to break the behavioral script and we're going to do something that you aren't able to predict and you can't really figure out what's going to happen next yet.

So that's the number one way to generate that focus. And focus is the gateway to the mammalian brain. And authority is number two. So if we bring up that crazy circle diagram that I airdropped to you, that center ring is everything that influences a mammal. So you think of training a dolphin. You think of training a dog. You think of like... teaching a cow to do a trick or something for a show.

It's all these four things, no matter what mammal it is. And this is focus. And then we have authority. So authority is next. And authority is comprised of five traits when it comes to human beings. And that's confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment. Those are the five things that just kind of trip wire other people's brains to say, I need to follow this person.

And then we have tribe. This is our association to what are other people doing. I'm going to go along with the crowd, what the crowd is doing. And I need to think about the people around me. And then we have emotion. And these are the repetitive behaviors and scripts and things that we follow along through our life.

So like tying your shoes is easy because your brain develops scripts for things to save you energy and time. Right. So if I can hack my way, if you look at it, so let's look at this from an infomercial standpoint. So the infomercial starts, they are like loud voice flashes on screen that, you know, they're like the black and white video of someone like struggling to like open a lid or something.

Like you're getting all this like focus that's coming up novelty that you're not expecting.

then it gets into authority how many that they've sold how many people that they've helped all the reasons that they're doing this big company they say this is blah blah incorporated or we've sold 10 million of these or whatever right then we're going to tribe i'm going to show you lots and lots of clips of all your friends people that look similar to you using this thing with a happy face on i want to show people using it when they've got friends over for the super bowl party so now i'm triggering tribe upon tribe

So now you're using the sham wow to clean up at your big barbecue that you're going to have in your backyard. So I'm triggering all these tribal emotions. And then finally at the end, I'm triggering all the scripts. So behavioral scripts of mammals. Mammals respond to several behavioral scripts, but the biggest one is scarcity. So scarcity is not a human script. It's a mammalian script.

And the scarcity might be the sale ends Sunday or let's say a pack of dogs and the water is running out or the food supply is going to run out. So that primes any mammal for action, any kind of scarcity. So you get to the end of the infomercial and there's a countdown timer. We've only got 10 of these left for the next 20 people that call. We're going to only give these.

How do you do that? How do you get them to connect to you? It just says, well, get to know them. Ask open-ended questions. Like the most basic stuff. It was like all their training would be like something chat GPT would just spit out. If you said, give me training on how to connect to somebody, it would just be the most generic thing you could imagine. So I wanted to make that better.

We only have 12 minutes left on the clock right now. So everything that that truly persuades another person at a deep level, because you could change someone's mind about an idea or win a debate. But you do that on a human level, not a mammalian level. So once you get good at understanding what influences human beings, you can do anything.

So even just looking at the Milgram experiment, they only needed three of those things on the human influence. So this outer ring right here, we have focus, compliance, suggestibility, connection, openness and expectancy. We only had three of those for the Milgram experiment. Did they have focus? Hell yeah. There's tons of novelty.

I'm in a room I've never been in, at a university I've never been to, with two people I've never met before, sitting in front of this shocking machine that I've never seen before, reading this quiz out loud into a mic I've never seen, and at the quiz I've never seen. Everything's novelty there. So there's tons of focus. Authority was there, a guy in the lab coat. Tribe was there.

whether that is confessing to a crime in an interrogation or providing some kind of intelligence, or is it maybe getting talked into a cult or something like that? So that's always fascinated me from the standpoint of in interrogations, what can a person be made to do and how long does it take to get to the desired result?

There's definitely emotion, behavioral scripts of responding to authority, continuing to go on. So they had all of those four things. And the emotion was, I need to be compliant because what is the authority figure telling him? Yeah, keep going. It's not a big deal. Right.

So that automatically triggers tribe and emotion because if I'm the authority figure and I said, yeah, go ahead, Denny, it's not a big deal. You're going to assume everyone else does the same thing you do. So my authority, even though it's just me, you're going to assume everyone else responds to me with compliance. Does that make sense? Yeah.

So I have all of the mammalian brain is involved right there in the Milgram experiment. But in the Milgram experiment, human brain on the second outer circle here, focus, I have compliance, and I have suggestibility. There is zero connection to the guy in the lab coat or the guy on the other side of the wall. There's zero openness.

That person is not opening up their heart or anything like that or becoming vulnerable in that situation. And there's zero expectancy. They have no idea to predict really what's coming next. Right. So the mammalian brain wins the show. If you get focus and that novelty is what they missed when they did the dissection of the Milgram experiment, they said it was obedience to authority.

It's a triggering of novelty and how that makes you vulnerable to authority. If there was no novelty, let's pretend that you're doing the Milgram experiment, but it's at your house.

You have script familiarity. So I haven't broken you out of a script yet. Oh, wow. So that's the biggest thing they forgot about in the memory experiment is novelty, novelty, novelty. If you break somebody out of scripts, behavioral scripts. And just as a simple way to understand this, think about the difference between, let's say you're checking out at Starbucks. And you're paying them money.

And there's so much out there. And. I just looked at, if I could go on a tangent here for a second. So you've heard of the Milgram experiment? No. Let me walk you through it. This is 1962 at Yale University. And they do a study. They put an ad in the paper and say, we're doing a study on learning and psychology.

Let's say that barista, let's say it's a woman. What does her behavioral script say is going to happen? Let's say you go, oh, yeah, how about the weather? It's beautiful weather this week. Is that triggering or is that in her script for you to say random shit like that? Yeah. Yeah.

Everybody who comes in, but you say something off the wall, you say something bizarre, like, did you see the fight that happened outside or something like that? That breaks a behavioral script and automatically generates focus because the brain does not know. I can predict what's coming up next.

So the moment we get a human brain to think, I cannot predict what's going to happen next, we generate focus instantaneously. And during that slight window of focus, even if it's a tiny window of focus, your level of authority comes through. Like, hey. And then you start doing something that...

With that confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment, those five traits, you start exhibiting those five traits during that, and then you have authority. And then tribe and emotion are really easy. Those are just behavioral scripts that you can hack into.

Yeah. Just toying with them at this drive-thru. Yeah, I did. I have a thank you email from Delta Airlines for this, but there was a guy on a flight that I was on who was jacked, jacked. Like he was probably 285, less body fat than me, and just a gigantic, scary- Just juiced out of his gills? Yeah, big time. And this guy's walking up the aisle, up and down the aisle. Things are bulging around.

He's holding his fist. I'm like, this guy's going to hurt somebody. So I told the flight attendant. Did he look mad? Yeah, he looked upset. Not mad. He looked really upset. And I told the flight attendant, I was like, hey, did you talk to this guy? Has anybody talked to him? He looks like he's violent. And she said, oh, I've already asked him if he's okay.

He said he's really depressed and he's thinking about killing himself. I'm like, can you tell somebody on the plane? Like... I said, do you mind if I, can I go talk to him? Are y'all going to tackle me or anything if I try to go talk to him? And they're like, no, no. So I went over there and I used a stage hypnosis trick to put him into hypnosis on a plane.

And we're up in the front of the plane, like where the galley is. And you know those little fold down chairs that the flight attendants would sit in?

We did. We sat right there. Because there was no, I mean, all the seats were full. So I was like, all right, go to sleep now, blah, blah, blah. Put him in a trance, sat him down in the seat and just kind of reframed all of his beliefs. But I did it through the system. I was like, all of your focus is at the wrong place. Your authority is getting the wrong place.

I don't know who you are, who your friends are, but you're hanging out with the wrong people, which is your tribe. And you're following the wrong behavioral scripts. Whatever scripts you're following right now, you take a pair of scissors, imagine those as a bunch of strings and cut them off, cut them in half. Like the guy was a new person. Went back to his seat.

And I'm paraphrasing 10 minutes of talking that I did with him.

he went back to his seat and then he found me on instagram i don't know a month or two later and wrote me a really really nice thank you letter he's a really sweet guy wow super cool guy but i don't know why i went off on that tangent well i was asking you just like oh yeah just going around everyday life and having this information like yeah you must be just so observant of just random interactions with people

Yeah, and you'd be surprised like if you break someone's script, even if you do it in a fun way, it makes somebody's day better. But you start kind of experimenting with this stuff and you see how fragile and how easily hacked into our brains are. We could be made – if you look at the Milgram experiment, that means 67% of people can be talked into murder.

And if you come in and volunteer for the study, we're going to give you like a lunch voucher or something like that. So all these people volunteered. So let's say you're doing the study and you take it and you go up in this hallway, you meet this guy, the guy in the lab coat, and there's another volunteer there and you draw straws.

Within 48 minutes, I think, is what they did the experiment in. Wow. So we can get hacked into pretty easily. And I think the way that you get out of that, the way that you avoid that is learning how vulnerable you are. Because the more you think you're like, oh, I'm immune to that stuff. That's like me buying a Windows computer and saying, oh, I don't believe in viruses.

I'm not going to download that McAfee thing. But if I believe that I'm vulnerable, then I get the antivirus. Then I'm aware of it and I'm looking out. You have to know that you're vulnerable.

I don't know if a number system would help or if that would really help that much. Maybe smooth lower eyelids is the key. I don't know.

Yeah. I would say if you find yourself... Clicking on ads on a regular basis. If you find yourself maybe buying stuff on Instagram or Facebook or whatever on a regular basis, which I do to this day. I got this watch because of an Instagram ad.

Their algorithm is so good. Yeah. Because I'll buy stuff and I'll be like, man, that ad was made for me. They made that ad for me. But if you find yourself doing that stuff or if you find yourself going down rabbit holes that don't make logical sense, once you back away from it, it doesn't make sense. That's the way that you like.

If I'm doing those things, I need to put some stuff in place, put some hurdles for me so I don't make impulsive decisions. And if you are good at influence, that's what you're really good at. Well, there's two things. You're good at weaponizing cognitive dissonance, number one. So if you're good at influence, you're using cognitive dissonance as a weapon.

Number two, you're good at identity and crafting and shaping who a person, not who they think they are, who they publicly say they are. Those are two different things. So if I can get you to publicly agree that you are one type of person, even if it's a very small commitment, then I'm starting to shape identity and who you're publicly agreed that you are, who you are as a person.

And I think at the end of the day, that's what truly matters. I'm just shaping those two things. I'm using identity as the hallway and cognitive dissonance as the wall. It's fascinating.

The other guy draws the learner straw and you draw a straw that says teacher on it. And they say, all right, you're going to sit down here and I'll summarize it. But the guy's in the room next to you with the door shut and you're going to sit down at this machine and you're going to read this quiz. And for every question that gets wrong, you're going to shock his ass.

Yeah. Yeah. But most of the ones that I did were. Just to be honest, it was wealthy people that were being sued because they owned a business and then people were suing them. So that's usually what it is. And most of them were jury trials. Interesting. And some of them were...

wealthy person with tax evasion or wealthy person with uh most of those like complaints it was people you've never heard of that maybe own a small country club or own a little medical practice or something like that or a plastic surgery clinic and they get a lawsuit and they go to a jury trial for a lot of these and we'll go in and pick the jury and or help them pick the jury Really?

We talk to them about what questions to ask, number one, and then what behavioral profile you're going to look for. Interesting. So what kind of person. Oh, wow. If I – let's say I did a case pro bono one time. Yeah, I can talk about it. A lady was suing a grocery store chain because she slipped on a – green bean or piece of watermelon or something on the floor. And so we needed a jury.

You know what locus of control is? Like an external locus or an internal locus. Okay, yeah. It's either like, I believe the world happens to me, like maybe a victim, or I believe I happen to the world. I choose my fate. So we wanted a jury with an external locus of control who would be more likely to side on a victim's side. Does that make sense so far? So-

We would ask these jury members the only question. It's just one question because the attorneys are allowed to ask several questions. I don't know the law very well, but I think it differs by state. But the question we passed around to each jury member to determine locus of control was how does a person catch a cold? That's it. So let's, and I'll let you be the trial consultant here.

So you hear one juror say, well, I didn't take my vitamins enough. I didn't take care of myself. I wasn't really washing my hands. I didn't sanitize when I should have sanitized. I have vitamin C at home, but I always forget to take it. And that's my fault. I mean, there's probably a million reasons. You hear another juror say, Well, there's a million reasons you can catch a cold.

These little kids picking their nose, wiping boogers on the stair rails. There's people coughing and not covering up their mouth. There's people that are going outside their house and they're sick. You became a trial consultant just then. You know exactly the type of person that you're dealing with in both of those cases. Because one's external and one's an internal locus.

You're going to deliver an electric shock. So you walk in there with him to begin the experiment. You watch him getting strapped down into this machine. And they even let you test the shocker on yourself.

So we come up with a bunch of questions like that. that determine what is the psychological profile that I'm looking for in a jury.

I definitely want to pick people who have an external locus of control and feel like the world happens to them.

Yes, but the thing is when you ask a jury pointed questions like that, they can do what's called a manipulative answer or a – I forget the word that we use. Countermeasure. So we call it a countermeasure answer. So let's say I ask you, do you like insurance companies or whatever? And you can know that that's about the case and you really want to be on this case. Yeah. Got it.

So you can make stuff up. So the question for this trial, it usually takes me a while to get them ready to go. Right. But the question for this trial would be, do you think large companies have our best interest at heart? And I wouldn't say yours. I would say our best interest at heart. So now they're answering for a collective instead of themselves. Right. It's harder to dodge.

I read about this somewhere. And every time they get a question wrong, you shock them. But not only that, you're going to grab that little knob and move the voltage up. So if you move the knob all the way to the far right, it says XXX danger severe shock. So you start the experiment. The guy says he's got a heart condition, and you can hear him screaming.

And it's not straight on the nose where a person knows what the right answer is and what the wrong answer is. You want to ask them the question that's ambiguous that gets them to reveal the most data without knowing it. Yeah.

I mean, there's a bunch of ways you could do it. On a scale of one to five, how much do you agree with the phrase, we reap what we sow? And then have the jury answer that way as well. Yeah, they'd have to be pretty vague. What was that model you were just telling me about? Fate. F-A-T-E. The fate model. Yeah. Focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. Okay.

And that will dictate whether or not you're successful. I mean, we have AI coming up. We've got economic stuff that's going on. But if you go back to B.C. years. This is what determined – your ability to leverage this stuff was what determined whether or not your business succeeded, whether or not you got elected in political offices. I don't think this AI will never replace having human skills.

And there's a lot of people that want – I think there's an obsession with scripts nowadays, like where they're like, what do you say exactly? Because there's even books you go on Amazon. It's like exactly what to say. There's books that are titled this, like what to say when blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. What to say. So I had so many clients that come to me because I'm anti-script. And then they get into my inner circle. I have this kind of an elite coaching group that we meet every week on Sunday. And they all secretly are like, hey, man, so what's the script? So they still get it.

They still have that obsession with scripts, which I did for a decade or two, working with influence and trying to figure out how people are convinced to do things. And everybody focuses on what do you say? What do you say? So here's the question that I would pose for any of those people that are wondering if I need some script for something.

If I have a – let's say this is a flight checklist for a Boeing 737. Me pushing this over to you and you taking possession of it does not make you a pilot. Right. Let's say I have a perfect sales script that – let's say I spent $10 million developing the most amazing sales script that's ever been invented for any company you can think of.

And then I take that perfect sales script and I give it to somebody with social anxiety. They're not going to sell. It has almost nothing to do with the words that you're saying. And that's a mistake. I train sales teams all around the world.

Yeah. So what they'll do is – and this isn't just sales teams. This is psychology research does this. And if you look at behavioral research does this. Sales teams will do the exact same thing. Who's the top salesperson? What do they say? Let's write down what they said and give it to Timmy over here.

And then Timmy's like, hey, I'm going to read the same script that John has because John's the top sales guy. None of them realizing that that person has the ability to generate focus better. They have more authority, which is that confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment. Those five things. That's what makes the sale happen.

That authority is what makes people change their mind on stuff. There are great words to say. And it's amazing to have those good words. But they don't do much without the authority. The flight checklist is helpful. A passenger might be able to land that plane safely. But it's a lot better and more effective when you have the skills that are behind that authority.

I think it's people that own businesses that want to be better leaders. And just learning all of these techniques makes you a better leader in general, especially if you have empathy and you're like a decent human being.

When you hit this little shock button through the wall, you can hear him go, ah, ah. You can hear these little screams. And every time you're moving it up, and sooner or later he says, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to continue. I'm out of here. I have a heart condition. I told you I had a heart condition. I want to leave. I want to stop right now.

For some people. I think we have... So there's a few different needs that we strive for in life. We have significance, which is people that strive to be significant. We have the approval people that my whole life I'm striving for some kind of recognition or approval. We have acceptance people. These are people that thrive on tribe. I need to be belonging and part of something.

Then we have the intelligence people. I need to be seen as smart. We have the power people I need to be seen as strong or powerful. You'll see a lot of this posturing kind of behavior like that. So you'll see power people and significance people both rise up into leadership positions for very different reasons, one for legacy and one for self-gratification. And finally, we have pity.

So those are the six basic and they're basic, but six basic things that we need to feel from other people. I can't feel significant unless other people confirm it. I can't feel intelligent unless other people confirm it. So those are the six needs we need from other people. And when it comes to that, like when you see significance-driven people, that's mostly what's in my mastermind.

I've got politicians in there. I've got psychotherapists and psychiatrists in there. There's people that are psychiatrists coming to learn these skills to talk people out of suicide or self-harm or get somebody to kind of walk their way out of an eating disorder. Yeah. There's a lot of different people in there.

Then again, there's some people in there that are just – I've got a guy in there that is a – I don't remember what he – he's some kind of stage performer. He does some kind of magic or something like that on stage and wants to know how to like manipulate the crowd better to make the show better. So I think when people say manipulation, it's like saying a scalpel is bad. Right.

it's only bad if I stab you with it. I can also save your life with a scalpel. So what we do with it, the same techniques that a cult recruiter uses to talk somebody into joining a cult are, and I've studied these, are the same techniques that a hostage negotiator uses to talk somebody off of a ledge or a suicide crisis hotline operator uses. Interesting.

So I need to capture this focus, get the authority in there, and just walk this person back into reality. Yes.

And all these people would kind of like turn back to the guy in the lab coat like, you know, what do I do? And the guy in the lab coat almost every time would say something as simple as it's important that you continue or the experiment requires that you continue. So they keep going and keep going and keep going. They're up to like 300 volts now. And at around 350 volts –

Yeah, I think a lot of cults work that way where they're like, here's some beneficial stuff that can change your life. And you get into that and you're like, wow, I'm starting to see some benefits.

Scientology published a series of books back in maybe the 70s called Success Through Communication. And they're little blue books. You can find them on eBay. But they're fabulous. They have great techniques in there. I don't know much about Scientology, just to put that out there. But I guess there's some point where you get all this confidence. You get more confident in your life.

You're starting to... I'm more in charge of the world around me. You kind of get that feeling. Right, right. And then they're like, okay, we're going to walk through this door and now it's time to talk about aliens. Right. Like Xenu, the galactic overlord.

So I never got that. I think so much of – there's so many techniques in Scientology that were copied by the CIA on paper. Right. L. Ron Hubbard invented this thing called the Alice in Wonderland technique. We need to bring this up on the screen.

So the, so the line to go right down to that Reddit thing.

So you don't have to read the article, but essentially what L Ron Humber does is have people read out of this book, uh, of Alison Wonderland. The, the verbiage is very confusing. Um, And L. Ron Hubbard openly wrote about this in his work. And I'll give you all of my research on it.

And then the CIA, without even attributing anything to him, copied it almost word for word in an interrogation manual. And I have that PDF, too. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. And then the grandfather of hypnotherapy, Milton Erickson, started writing about it. So being able to speak confusing phrases helps you to be more persuasive about

They discovered this in the 50s and 60s that if I can confuse your brain, your brain acts as though someone who is – it's somebody that's falling. So if you imagine when you're falling, your limbs are flailing all over the place and the first solid object that they come into contact with, it's going to like grab around it no matter what, even if it's a thorn bush or something. Okay. Right? Right.

Every sound in the room across the wall stops. No more sound. And they shock. And then he stops answering questions altogether. There's no response to these questions because he's pushing this little button that indicates like A, B, C, D. And you turn around to the guy in the lab coat again. The guy in the lab coat says, any non-answer must be treated as an incorrect answer. Please continue.

So anything that's solid in that moment of confusion is going to get grabbed onto. So the brain corollary to this is if a person is confused, the first logical piece of information they hear after being confused will be automatically accepted or more automatically accepted without being screened or scrutinized by the brain. Does this make sense? Yeah.

yeah so so how like practically how would this be used um if you spoke a a confusing phrase very confidently and then told somebody to just completely open up right afterward you're gonna you're gonna lower a whole lot of defenses for any technique you want to use afterward so that's a basic way to say that

So an example would be, and you know that this is a confusing statement, but if we're in a conversation and I'm speaking in a really confident way and I said something like, how different would it be if the same thing started looking now like it wouldn't change if nothing else really did? And you could just get completely open.

So getting good at those statements and the one that I just said out loud is very effective. And you can try this out. I've had people that are in my coaching group use this on stage in large groups of people. And I think some of them have used it to do an upsell before. But –

You can tie a logical thought at the end of a confusion statement and getting people good at being confusing is good to make them more powerful communicators. But the auditor, I think, is what they call the person that reads things to the subject across the table. is using those confusing statements and inserting those things afterward.

And it's in the textbook of, or it's in the little, it's more of a pamphlet of success through communication. I wish I could bring that up, man.

It's a GSR.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a galvanic skin response is what it's measuring. It's the same thing you would have – it's part of a polygraph.

Yeah.

Yeah. I've loved the e-meter concept for a while. I don't think it's extremely reliable for reading human emotion. Right.

No. No. But, I mean, there are new neural networks that are 98.4% effective at detecting human risk. And they can call you on your cell phone and ask you a yes or no question, and it's 98.4% effective, proven by Carnegie Mellon, proven by the Department of Defense. Disclaimer, I am on the board of that company. But it is scary accurate. What kind of questions do they ask? You can ask anything.

We can use it to find bad guys overseas. We can use it to screen people for job interviews, insurance fraud. We're going to be using it in boxing soon just to ask people, are you doping? Are you blood doping or whatever? Can you pass the test? The system is called Asterisk. Okay. But it can just ask you for – it's an AI that calls your phone and says, here's the questions you're going to be asked.

It tells you the questions beforehand. And they're all yes or no. And it asks you four or five yes or no questions. And it's 98.4 plus is what they say in the research, 98.4 percent plus accurate in detecting risk. But it's more like a metal detector at an airport. And because calling something a lie detector is just not – I don't think it's accurate.

I don't think anything should be called a lie detector. So it's just like when you go to the airport. If the machine goes off, it's almost 100% sure that there's something big and metal on your body. Whether or not it's a belt buckle or an AK-47, it's going to be up to a human. So this AI that we're using is – directing human attention.

And they kept going. And they kept going, shocking what they assumed, which was an actor. The guy in the other room is an actor. But they assumed that this is a real person. They're suffering and maybe unconscious at this point. They wanted to stop. They asked to stop.

So it's the fastest pathway to identify risk, but it's also the fastest pathway for me to find out if I have a group of a hundred people here, who, who are the, where can I trust? Where can I invest trust the fastest way? So that's what it really is. It's the I don't know how the hell we got it. Oh, the E-meter. Yeah. So I've been obsessed with the E-meter.

Dude, I went on eBay so many times and tried to find them on eBay. You can't find them. Really? I think maybe Scientology buys them up. They probably do. But I do think L. Ron Hubbard was a genius. Hands down.

Yeah. So there's a lot of research out there that suggests he had a condition in his temporal lobe called hypergraphia.

So there's some research that says he most likely suffered from a condition called temporal lobe epilepsy, which produces a byproduct called hypergraphia, where it's this incessant, almost unsatisfiable need to write and continue writing. And Steve, you can probably bring that up. Just type in L. Ron Hubbard temporal lobe epilepsy. and it is a very compelling case.

So people with temporal lobe epilepsy, I am one of them. I have temporal lobe epilepsy. What is the function of the temporal lobe? Time and memory. Okay.

So that's where your hippocampus is down there. You've got a lot of crap going on down there. Oh, wow. I was at a point in my life where, where I was having nine seizures a day, which I know you wanted to even open this episode with that talk, and we didn't, I forgot. We were talking about this before we started, yeah.

But I was having temporal lobe seizures at nine times a day, and it is like, it is very, very adjacent to what you might experience on DMT, except scary, terrifying, and horror movie-esque. And they last about a minute. And your body just is like a rag doll. You're not shaking on the ground and doing crazy stuff. But it's like you have this weird access to another dimension for a time being.

So before this experiment started, all these psychologists got together and they said, you know, how many people are going to go through with this? And they said 0.07%, I think was the answer. They said anybody that would go through with this is a psychopath and wants to hurt other human beings. So the experiment concluded 67% of people went all the way. All the way.

And I know there's people out there that are suffering with temporal lobe epilepsy right now. And I was able to stop mine, like 100%. Stop. Zero seizures. Did it come out of nowhere? No, they think it's probably a result of genetic predisposition mixed with a bunch of deployments being around explosions and stuff like that. So getting a little tiny bit of a brain injury.

So during temporal lobe epilepsy, those seizures, you're experiencing what I would call maybe between 90 days and a year of memories in 60 seconds. So you're getting access to so much information and so much weird stuff, almost like you're living a year of someone else's life.

And then the moment the seizure is over, it takes, for one seizure, it took me like two weeks to reconcile what was real and what was fake. And then you have derealization in temporal lobe epilepsy, which is where you wonder, like, am I real? Am I sitting in – is this room real? Am I actually sitting here right now? I had a point before our daughter was born. I thought my dog was fake.

I thought my dog was artificial and not real. Not like I'm imagining it. I just thought, like, that is not a real dog. It is so weird, man. It messes with your head so much. Like a projection or something? I didn't put any logic to it.

Yeah. And I'm going to tie this back to Elrond, I promise. But as the seizure is starting, they call this an aura. You have this weird thing that goes on. Yeah. Like something's going on around me where you know that's going to happen. As it starts, the deja vu is so powerful that... and so strong that in your brain, there is no possibility that everyone around me didn't set this up.

So it's a weird feeling of like everything around me is so weirdly familiar that I know that everyone here had to set this up. So it's almost like a weird paranoia. And then you think like all of this is this can't be real. And then the moment that happens is like you're going like you jump off a building. It's like a falling feeling in your stomach. And then it's just lights out.

So it's terrifying, but it's almost like there's some weird access to something that other people don't have access to. And they call this the sacred disease, temporal lobe epilepsy. And hypergraphia, I mean, look. I wrote that while I was suffering all that. So I definitely had hypergraphia. It took me five years to write.

But this was – I wrote this book because I thought I was going to lose my whole brain and I had to dump everything. Even the super, super confidential stuff, I put everything in the book, everything. And I wanted all of my training to be in one location. And just so my wife could keep selling the book. That was the motivation to write? The motivation to write the book was my brain was dying.

And I thought I'm not going to be a good provider. I can't provide for my family anymore. So I thought if I could just write this book that has everything in it, then we'll be okay. The kids can survive. We can still feed, put food on the table and all that. Even if I'm in a wheelchair or something. Right. So that's the only reason that book exists. Wow.

But coming back to Elrond, I know how that feels. If he had temporal lobe epilepsy, I know how that feels. And that may explain a lot of those little internal components of what make up Scientology. Interesting.

At the beginning, like the aura moment at the start. When you say aura, what do you mean specifically aura? It's just a feeling when the seizure is about to start. Not like a visual thing. No, but it wasn't memories. The deja vu was, you know how it's uncanny. Yeah. Like everything around is so alien, but familiar. Like I've been here before, but times 5,000, like it's off the charts.

And then after that, that's when the memories come in. It's not your own memories. It's something else. And it's like months to maybe years of memories that happen in like 60 seconds. And I've had times right before I got married. I'm going to get emotional talking about it. Right before I got married, I had maybe one of the worst. And it was maybe two and a half minutes, three minutes long.

And 250 volts is enough to kill you based on amps. But 100% of people went up to 250 volts, 100%. And it's been replicated so many times. It's been over and over. People have replicated it in different environments and different changes. Some of the experiments, they physically made the participant hold the person's hand down on a metal plate that was shocking them.

And you lose about a million neurons a second in a seizure. It's bad. So I was thinking, like, I'm fucked, you know? So I was in my office and I was hunched over the desk and I had been in a seizure so long there was just a pool of saliva beside my desk and I was trying to scream. It's like inside the seizure, it's like all those memories flooding and having sleep paralysis at the same time.

Man, it's terrifying. It's not like DMT at all. But what I'm saying, the corollary is like you go somewhere else completely. You're gone. It's so... it's terrifying.

So I, uh, I saw a neurologist and they gave me a prescription that I won't say the name of the drug, but it's one of the most common side effects of the drug was seizures. It's like this cannot be real. This can't be real. And I'd studied neuroscience for five years at this time, six years. So I am scrolling through Instagram one day, taxiing on a runway in LA. And I see this dude on Instagram.

He sounds like some California surfer dude. And he's talking about mitochondria. And I was just because of his accent, I judged him like an idiot. But I just kind of flipped past it. Then I realized what he was talking about. And I tried to go back to the post, but I hit the swipe right on accident. You know, when like you reset your scroll and you can't go back. I did that.

And it took me like four days to find him. And his name is Dr. John Lawrence. And I'm going to introduce you to him tomorrow, which is going to be cool.

Yeah. So he's talking about methylene blue, which I know Jack Cruz has talked about here. I got some methylene blue.

Is it hard?

You want one? No. I took them this morning. Did you? I take them every day.

So for methylene blue, I think it's the one thing that truly reversed everything that was going on with my brain. Every single symptom that I was having was just gone. And- I credit everything to Methylene Blue and finally Dr. John. And I buy my Methylene Blue from Dr. John's website just because I'm so passionate about it. Wow.

And Methylene Blue acts as – just to give you like a 60-second brochure of what it does. It's a light MAOI, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. So it helps our cells to get rid of the two things that we don't really want in our cells, a lot of, is reactive oxygen species and reactive nitrogen species. And it donates an electron. It donates a lot of electrons to mitochondria.

And the second thing that it does, well, it does a lot more than that, and it helps. Your body's main job is to take an oxygen molecule and stick some hydrogen on there and turn it into water. That's your body's job. But sometimes it doesn't do that, and an oxygen molecule gets screwed up and turns into a reactive oxygen species.

So the second thing that it does is it has an affinity to neuronal tissue. So if you take that methylene blue right now and then two hours from right now, we did an autopsy on you. Let's say you died. Your brain is blue, bright blue. Really? It gets into the brain? Steven, look up methylene blue brain autopsy. Yeah, so it's your spinal cord, all your nerves, brain stem, whole brain is all blue.

And they went back and they said, this is a study of obedience to authority because this was during the Nuremberg trials going on. And all of the former Nazis saying, I was just following orders. I was just doing what I was told to do. So Dr. Milgram, his parents were Jewish. He does this experiment. Will people just do what they're told to do? And they thought that this was all about authority.

They don't. That was probably a living person who was on methylene blue. And some of these they use to stain. Methylene blue is obviously – it's just a blue dye. Right.

Yeah. So these may be used to stain. But if you do an autopsy on a person who's on a dose of methylene blue higher than probably – Scroll up. Two milligrams per kilogram. No, up farther.

Yeah. So it has an affinity for neuronal tissue. So this guy who discovered it, it's 1894-ish, and the Industrial Revolution was kicking off, and they were like, hey, we need to dye a bunch of stuff blue. We got a huge need for that. So this scientist—

invents essentially invents or discovers this methylene blue and he's dicking around with it and he shoots it into a rat and then does an autopsy on the rat and the rat has a blue nervous system the whole thing so he's like there's something special about this it's not just for dying stuff because he was using it on slides to die microscope slides

So it has an affinity to go into just the neuronal tissue and fix that first. It'll fix the rest of your body too because it goes everywhere, especially when you take intravenous methylene blue, which I'm going to be doing tomorrow. But it is so incredible. And with the MAOI and it turning your body blue, you know, it's blue because it reflects blue light, right?

Which means that it absorbs red, right? So if I do red light therapy with methylene blue, I'm exponentially increasing. Really? Oh, yeah. You can fact check me like Uncle Jack.

So this combination is called photobiomodulation. Okay. So I'm using a red light machine and that methylene blue soaks up that red light.

There it is. Protection against neurodegeneration.

Cytochrome C. Okay. Specifically, it would be cytochrome C oxidase.

Right. So people are struggling right now all over the Internet. You can see stuff like sales training, like sales training mastery. Here's the influence mastery. If if I can in 40 minutes, I can talk a total stranger into committing murder. Wouldn't you think that that's harder than selling him a car? And those people in the Milgram experiment, there was no secret hypnotic technique.

Yeah. So in that cytochrome, just thinking of the word cytochrome, cyto means cell, chrome means color. So always think of like that's the color of light. Jack talked about this a lot, how we generate a little bit of near infrared light in our cells. So cytochrome is the important chemical there. And he talked about magnetism.

We have sulfur and iron and stuff that's in the mouth of cytochrome, C oxidase. So doing that lets it absorb that. So your cells are kind of running on those photons instead of just the electrons.

Yeah, I think what it probably does is makes more ATP, which is adenosine triphosphate, which is our cell's energy. So those cells, cataracts is a degenerative disease. So we're getting less ATP. So more ATP probably means that there is more neural connectivity. Those cells have more energy to perform repairs on themselves. Right.

And the cool thing about mitochondria, which I was hoping that Jack would mention, is mitochondria is not human. It has different DNA than us. It's alien. What do you mean by that? All right, Stephen, look it up. You've got a skeptical face on you.

There's a theory now that mitochondria is –

Okay. So there's a theory that mitochondria was its own little organism and formed a relationship with little single-celled organisms like, hey, bro, I'm going to give you a bunch of energy. I'm going to help you absorb sunlight and live outside the water. So let's form this little relationship together.

So that's just a theory that somebody has on how these things started working together because it's not human.

You get better results if you're drinking water that has lower deuterium levels.

I drink it almost exclusively at home. It's expensive, isn't it? It is very expensive. I order from this company called Light Water. I have no affiliation with the company. L-I-G-H-T? No, L-I-T-E. Oh, okay. Light Water Scientific, I think, is the name of the company. And you can order it on Amazon, I think, even. Interesting. It's these little blue bottles, plastic bottles.

And even the company recommends, like, deuterium depletion is very important. So you don't have to just drink this water straight. You can pour it into your daily water intake so you're getting less deuterium than normal. So you're diluting deuterium. the water with it. So you can still drink normal water out of a Brita filter or something and then pour that stuff in there.

They didn't inject them with some LSD or something before the thing happened. They didn't have some secret handshake or they'd touch them a certain way or hypnotize them. No techniques, no methods. It was just how responsive our mammalian part of our brain is to authority. But they missed one element of that, which we can talk about later.

Have you heard the theory that you can't get a sunburn if you're not wearing sunglasses? Alexis explained that to me, yeah.

I think the closer we get to nature, like what were our bodies designed to do? Technology is outpacing our ability to adapt. Technology is outpacing our ability to adapt to it. Genetically. Yeah. And we need to go back to like what kept our ancestors alive.

And that seems to – all these studies are like discovering the stuff that like our ancestors didn't even need research for because they just lived life in nature. But I published a paper, I don't know, a month or two ago called Ancestor Confusion Theory.

that if you are spending time in a place that would confuse the shit out of your ancestor that lived 10,000 years ago, you, the more time you spend in one of those places that would confuse your ancestor, the more you have depression, anxiety, loneliness, heart disease. And like you look at cities and these are like, I just, I just did a podcast with Stephen Bartlett, a diary of CEO and,

But that's how incredible authority really is when it comes to influence and persuasion in human behavior. It's everything.

And I was staying in Brooklyn. And looking out my hotel window, I can't find a piece of nature, no matter where I looked. Every direction, there's nothing. And I'm not claiming to have some solution to solve the Earth's problems. But I'm just making that correlation of... When people are in environments that our bodies are not designed to be in, we have things that go wrong.

And this applies to fish and dolphins. And you take an octopus out of the ocean, put it in a tank. No matter how perfect the saliency of the water is and everything that you do in that tank to replicate nature perfectly, it shortens the lifespan of the octopus by years. So I think one of our modern world, our biggest problem,

I think the biggest problems in science are when we think we are special, Humans are more special than nature. And we can outsmart nature. The thing that created us or whatever created us is like we are special is one of the biggest things. This goes back to the earth being the center of the universe. And now like aliens have to look like us.

And like all of these little things that we hear, especially with science, is the root of the problems come back to humans have to be special for this thing to be true.

Yeah. And that's why there's so many people on shift work that suffer all kinds of problems. You have more obesity on shift work, people that work nights and stuff like that. You have, I think, triple the rate of obesity. I can't remember the study. But I completely agree with that. I've read some paper or maybe heard in a podcast.

Have you heard where people talk about getting sunlight on your butthole in the morning?

So the first job that I ever had was literally just scraping rust off of the ship. So if anybody's out there right now and you're thinking about joining the Navy, don't let your recruiter tell you to go undesignated because it sounds good. They're like, oh, you can go in there and then you can pick whatever job you want. You're not designated. So I did that for like two and a half years.

Can you hear Jack's voice right now? Yeah.

Can we ask Grok instead of the Google? I've never used Grok. That's the XAI? Yeah, it's good. Really? Yeah. And you can put it in fun mode.

Number five, the interest in testicle tanning. I haven't heard of the butthole tanning one, though. I just heard it was good to get your whole everything spread all out so everything can get some sun back there.

I studied medical neuroscience. And this includes radiology, reading MRIs and brain scans and studying Parkinson's, myasthenia gravis, you name it, Alzheimer's, dementia. And the more I learn about what truly helps the brain, I get so jaded and I get upset that I didn't – why don't they teach that in college? Why didn't they talk about any of this?

And I've heard many people say that a lot of these universities are – the curriculum is developed by – Big Pharma or some company with a vet. Especially Stanford. Stanford's a big one. It's a public record.

So, you're saying the Alphabet agencies became the Alphabet company.

I think most people – I've been involved with many different operations stuff going on back in the day. Most people that are involved in those things like putting Google algorithm together and all that, most of those people – that genuinely in their heart of hearts believe that they're doing something good for the country. I really believe that. I've met these people.

When they first started, they were naive enough, which I would be. Most of us would be. We don't know what's going to happen way down at the end of this pipeline. So we're putting this stuff together and you genuinely feel like a patriot at the time. And then it's embarrassing. So nobody really speaks up at the end. Like I was a big part of that. I put that together. So-

I think it probably still goes on. But I want you to – here's what a lot – the mistake a lot of those people make, and I hope I don't piss them off by saying this, but it's not about the technique. A lot of people think, oh, you need all this training. I'm going to – inject this person, I'm going to do secret messages into their brain using some machine or something like that.

I think we're assigning, I think a lot of people assign malice to people that had none. And I think there was malice maybe in some of it. But I think the overall thing was like information is going to be crazy. And we need this is going to be a war of information. It's going to be a war of ideas.

And we need to make sure we get the right ones into the hands of the American people so that they're well informed and they know the right things that are going on. So the American people won't be manipulated. And I think that was probably so many programs start out that way of like we need to protect people first, like the Patriot Act. It's like, oh, yeah, we need to protect you.

Let me just get one more billion in there. Yeah. I'm going to unplug as soon as I get this next billion out.

philosophical thought leaders in in human history or they don't maybe may not understand like all of human history and how this stuff can affect people a hundred years down the road yeah it's like it's like capitalism gone off the rails there's an old quote of uh the only way for a society i'm paraphrasing this but the only way for a society to thrive is when men plant trees whose shade they will never enjoy

So we're all just future focused on the life of the next generation instead of our own. And that's the same, when I teach people how to have discipline in their life, it's the exact same thing as a country. My present tense self places more priority over what me in the future than me right now. If I only prioritize right now, I'm going to stay up late. I'm going to drink too much.

I'm going to miss that exam in the morning. I'm going to eat too much cheesecake. Fill in the blank. I'm going to do drugs. If I prioritize my future self ahead of my present self, I will always be looking backwards with gratitude instead of regret. So my past tense self will always be someone I'm grateful for, not regretful of. And I think that's the goal in our life.

If I'm an authority in a person's life and I say, hey man, you know what you need to do? You need to go do that. You go do that thing to that person. That's all it really takes. Because it's not about the right skills, it's about the ability to select the right target or to select the right candidate to perform the action. This goes all the way back to Bobby Kennedy. Yeah.

That's the goal for a nation. There's no difference. Like do I have the ability to forego enjoying something now so that future me or maybe future me generation –

I've studied psychopathy for a very long time, and I think a lot of those positions to get to the top, there's a degree of psychopathy that you need to get up there in today's world. You've got to be – and I think maybe that's the reason we're looking at what we're looking at. Like all psychopathy starts with separation, all of it, everything.

So if you just think of ego, me having an ego means I'm separate from Danny. Me having less of that is like we're similar. Me having way less of that is like we're one. We're like the same thing. But if you take ego way to the top, that's where you get psychopathy. You have psychopath behavior there. It's just centralized. Everything is different from me. And those people will memorize everything.

like a library card catalog, human emotions and facial expressions and words and phrases and everything that they will ever need to survive in the world and to rise up to the top of leadership. And everybody talks about psychopaths as if they're bad people. I don't think they are. And none of them chose to be that way. And most psychopaths don't even know that they're psychopaths.

They just think we're all the same. They think we do what they do. And I think they just recruit a lot of this. And one of the best illustrations of this is Dr. Robert Hare, who's the number one researcher on psychopathy. He's the guy who developed the checklist, the famous psychopath checklist to diagnose a psychopath.

He said, if you could just imagine yourself in your apartment, you're wanting to go get something to eat. And you say, I'm going to walk down there to the fried chicken place. I'm gonna go get some fried chicken. So you exit your apartment, you walk down the sidewalk, And within 100 yards, you see some police lights and there's a crash scene. There's a horrible, horrible scene there.

Let's say you see a mom holding her little daughter who's passed away and bleeding. And the mom is crying and screaming and all of this. And the first thought in your head while you're looking at the scene is fried chicken. I'm going to get that fried chicken.

and then turning right to the restaurant and go pick up your food, getting back to the apartment, eating your chicken, and then after you brush your teeth that night, you're looking at yourself in the mirror going, Trying to mimic all of those faces that you saw on the street from all the grief and sadness and despair.

And I believe that that was on purpose. And I think that that was very heavily influenced. I think he was influenced. He has no memory of the entire event. I went to the prison to sit down with Searhan a few years ago.

You just look, staring at yourself, doing that in the mirror to practice those facial expressions. That's what a psychopath is.

It can start later. There's a genetic and an environmental predispositions that you can have for it. So you can have a genetic predisposition, which means your amygdala is a little bit bigger than it should be. A few of the things going on in your brain. But then you have all of those genetic factors, and you have a great childhood, and you don't grow up to be a psychopath.

Those genes decide not to express themselves. So then you have somebody else who they get into a traumatic event. Maybe they have – this can even go back to some cases they've shown the mother getting sick during the third trimester expressed those genes. I think it's a bunch of theories right now. As far as I know, I'm no expert.

But having those genes expressed means that you're born and the next thing you know, like, my kid is shoving needles into our cat or our dog just to see the dog's reaction and stuff like that. So you see that at a pretty young age. And there's no way out. There's no counseling. There's no therapy. There's no psychedelic journey that you can go on and like reverse some of that stuff.

And it's pretty similar. Narcissism is maybe, I don't think it's on that spectrum, but narcissism is like high ego, right? It's a high ego problem, but it's rooted in more insecurity. Yeah. I have seen narcissism. If you go to therapy, if you have narcissistic personality disorder, a diagnostic disorder, and you go to therapy, they're essentially teaching you how to fake stuff.

Here's how to ask people questions about themselves. Danny, how are you doing? How's your wife? How's the family going? And here's how to be open and vulnerable. Here's how to be a good person. That's just masking. They're not helping themselves. They're not really changing. I have seen psychedelics do some amazing stuff with narcissism, with people kind of stepping out of their ego.

It was a huge deal for me the first time I did it. I felt like I lost 40 pounds of ego the first time that I did psychedelics. I think maybe a bunch of deployment stuff kind of fell off with that. But it's a great thing to see. And I don't remember where I was going with it.

Or ayahuasca.

Yeah.

Did he have to kind of like hold your hand and it's okay. It's okay. Oh yeah. He was great.

thing before it i don't know what that prayer did you do yeah yeah yeah yeah we did that i love doing that i think man there's something i think the more certain somebody is that they've got life figured out and like what we're doing here on this planet the more skeptical i am of their opinions i don't think we have jack shit figured out man i don't think we know what this is because this lady was uh

Talking to Stephen Hawking one time, and this is on recording, but he said, well, what happens if you get to the end of the universe? She said, well, that's the end. And he said, okay. So you reach the end. What's on the other side of that? What's outside of that wall? They're like, we have no clue what any of this stuff is. And I think that's okay just for us to say we don't know yet.

And I think that we need more scientists that can utter the phrase, as far as we know now. Just that one phrase. You don't have to call yourself a dummy. You just have to say, we don't have everything figured out. And every generation thinks they've got it all figured out and laughs at the generation before them. And every generation will get laughed at.

So we're going to have stuff that we believe in right now that in a couple hundred years will be the equivalent of the earth is flat or we're at the center of the entire universe and everything revolves around us. Yeah. We'll be laughed at. And we just got to be okay with that. And just as far as we know right now, just that one phrase, I wish we would hear more often.

Yeah. So I saw it on... Someone ripped it off of TikTok and then stuck it on X. And I saw it on X. And I'm a behavior profiler. So I'm watching the video reactions of the people that are seeing the stuff. And then I'm watching Danny's behavior. I was so... I don't know, intrigued about what was going on.

I tracked Danny's ass down within five minutes, 10 minutes, called him and said, hey, dude, I'm gonna fly you to my house. I need you to tell me all about this. I wanna know everything that you know. It's just fascinating to me. What were you looking for?

The first thing would be performance. Am I seeing performative behavior? Someone over-exaggerating a reaction to what they're seeing on the wall? Someone zooming in the camera a little bit too much and not trying to get an authentic shot of what's going on? Any kind of over-exaggeration and them trying to over-explain it to the camera, what they're seeing, and no one tried to explain it.

They were just awestruck. They didn't try to say, oh, here's exactly what I'm seeing right away. They had that pause of awe, just being in awe for a few seconds. That's what did it for me. And then the humility of Danny's just super humble, good dude. And that comes through. That's why... You don't have to be a profiler for that. You get a gut feeling.

Like when we get those gut feelings about people, those gut feelings are produced by who that person is when we're not looking. Gut feelings are not produced by the behavior in the moment. It's produced by their behavior in the moment being incongruent with who they are off camera or when nobody's looking.

Yeah.

Well, the gut says that we're seeing something that our bodies were not meant to or not designed to, like we didn't evolve to see. It would just be like if you did DMT and then found out that you could squeeze your ear really hard and you could see the infrared light spectrum. It would be a weird, you'd be like, oh shit, I can see heat now. I can see like a snake.

And maybe we're seeing something that maybe an animal or somebody else has access to already. Maybe it's just another thing that we just don't know about yet. And it's always been there.

Yeah. I'd rather see 10,000 people experience it than some study at a university. I'd rather have a huge movement. Because that would fund the study by itself. Just so many people. And I think there's like a subreddit on it as well. But what I'd like to see is what would happen if I have like ski goggles. All right, and just humor me for a second.

And this is what I was thinking, like after I did it the first time. So what if I had ski goggles that had like white, like almost like a wax paper surface to them? So like a translucent, but not transparent, you know? So the outside of the ski goggles would look like the back of my iPhone, right? And somehow project a laser onto that entire surface from outside. So you're looking at this.

So it's like diffusing it? Yeah, so it's diffusing laser light, but you can kind of move your head and look. So now you're physically able to move where you're looking. Right. So you'd need some kind of little head apparatus to shine it down and diffuse it onto your face. And Danny said the green and blue lasers have different code. Really? Yeah. you see different type of code.

And everybody sees the same different type of code. Huh. Which I thought was fascinating.

Yeah. So, all right. I'll go deep really quick on this one. If observing something collapses wave function. Yes. And our ability to see and like interpret things is expanded by DMT. Then are we seeing something that is there, but is also that I'm a huge, I'm obsessed with Carl Jung, all of his work. Are we seeing some kind of collective code that we are all kind of co-creating?

Are we all collapsing that? So then the one time that I have done DMT, I somehow, I was shown this map of the world of gravity. Like if you could map, like Verizon has that coverage map, right? But what if you could map where the gravity centers are? And the inside of like – I could see all the smoky mountains up in the northeast.

I could see all the rocky mountains down in like the southwestern area. And they were empty because no one was observing the inside of the mountains. And the gravity was concentrated in the cities where people were collapsing wave function. I saw that on DMT. Wow. Not saying that there's some science behind it, but I just thought that was unbelievable. And you were looking at some sort of map?

Like a map of this country where you could see like New York, LA, Houston, Chicago, where all this gravity was centered right around those areas. Yeah. Wow. So ever since that day, I always thought in terms of like, maybe this is some kind of wave function, form of collapsing of a wave function.

Well, it is for the Uber drivers.

Yeah. It started on setting and I'm just worried that I'm going to go downhill and I need to dump everything that's inside of my brain that I teach to Intel people, to companies, everything all in one book.

I think it was a drive from the health scare. It was therapeutic knowing that like if I can get this done, then like I have a parachute for my kids. Right. And the third part I think is also hypergraphia. It's just that side effect of temporal lobe epilepsy. Just an impulsive need to write nonstop. I would fill like one of these up every two months. Just nonstop.

So I wrote this on paper first with like a pencil. Not word for word, but most of the book. And it took three or four of those things.

Yeah. Just going on one journey, like a mushroom journey, like a four and a half, five gram journey. That was significant to kind of start kicking everything off. Then taking a daily turkey tail. Then I mix in beetroot and then very high dose melatonin. Super high dose. Really? Melatonin? Yeah. High dose melatonin is one of the most powerful things. Absolutely powerful.

I put it up there with methylene blue. And high dose melatonin is one of the most powerful antioxidants in the world. And it's made in your brain. And most people are like, well, if I take a lot of it, my body's not going to produce. Your body, there's no rebound effect whatsoever. But the thing is that your liver will destroy 80% to 90% of melatonin when you take it orally.

So what you usually take from like Walgreens or CVS is like a 2 milligram, maybe a 4 milligram. I take 200 at sunset. And it's a suppository.

Yeah. I'll show you how to put it in. Wow, that's dedication. Yeah. So it bypasses the liver. Oh, okay. That's called the first pass effect. So when our liver – all the processes in our liver just destroy that melatonin. So when you take melatonin – Through a suppository, you're absorbing like 90% instead of destroying 90%.

Yeah. Take it for an airplane ride. I won't say that this is some, maybe it's proven in some study, but I went to Jamaica and we go to Jamaica two or three times a year. Really? Yeah. So I will take melatonin and I never, and I burn easily. I'm just like a basic white dude. I will burn pretty easily in the sun. I'll take melatonin and I will do not need sunscreen. It's unbelievable. Wow.

And then 2001, a friend of mine got killed on the USS Cole. And this was the bombing that took place in the Gulf of Yemen on September 11th. And his name is Craig Weberly. And I read all these intelligence reports that said the agents didn't develop contacts well enough. We had all these failures that took place on the ground. And I had already been studying body language.

Yeah. They're totally legal.

And that's only if you're in the city, like Kingston. Like if you're in Kingston or any of the big, big cities. There's some, but it's not that bad. I stay up in the very top of the island in the middle part, which is called Ocho Rios.

and uh it's it's unbelievable man yeah great great spot like in in western society we compete with each other just as a as a like a standard default let's compete on status and wealth and popularity and all of that stuff right and this it's almost like a national culture for the jamaican people just to kind of compete on gratitude And it's not something like they teach in school.

I booked a flight, got a hotel, had all these forms filled out, walked in the front door, handed over my driver's license to sign in and all that stuff, and they said he's sick. He's not feeling well. He's sick. So I never got a chance to talk to him, but... If you just look at it in terms of am I selecting the right person to do this, it's a thousand times easier.

It's just how it is. And it is – I've never been to – I've been to a bunch of countries. I've been all over the world. I've never been to a place where there's so little ego. Really? And so much enjoyment. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Just the most incredible human beings on earth. What is it about Jamaica that makes it like that? I don't know.

I think it's the people and the culture, just how they are, how they grew up. And the native Jamaicans were more like Mayan. They had more of a Mayan appearance. And Columbus and his crew murdered like 99% of them.

Yeah. It's a sad story. But Jamaica is like a- Yeah. But man, it's those people. It's so hard to explain. Like the people, like just the first time I got to Jamaica, here's an example. We were walking out in the main part of the town and there's a homeless guy walking past us. Like we're about to pass this guy that's very obviously either homeless or very close to being homeless.

And as he's approaching us, I'm instantly, it's this Western brain of mine. He's like, he's going to ask for money. I've got to say, oh, sorry, I don't have the cash. All he said was like, is this your first time? And we're like, yeah, it's our first time in Jamaica. He's like, I hope it's the best time ever. And he just kept on walking. Really? Yeah, didn't wait. And like...

As a Western person, I cannot process why would he stop? How does it benefit him? Because that's what was in my head. That's how we think in our society. Why would someone do something that doesn't benefit themselves? And that culture is not wired that way. So I'll give you the second time we went. We went to the same hotel.

And the guy who gets your bag at the front of the hotel, his name's Kirk.

He grabbed our bags. He tells me and my wife, hey, Chase, hey, Michelle. Then the person at the front desk said, hey, Chase, hey, Michelle. The person upstairs, the maid walking down the hallway said, hey, Chase, hey, Michelle.

People that I don't remember even talking to. So I asked later on, I asked one of the managers, like, whatever CRM you guys use to like get the employees to memorize people's names is unbelievable. And she said, we don't do that. They actually remember your name. Because that's my Western brain thinking. Why would it benefit them? But they just genuinely care.

And I can't – it's so hard for our culture to process that. Man, it's a magical place. Yeah, no.

It is. It's like you're closer to reality, like the real what reality actually is down there. I mean, there's a French philosopher named Jean Baudrillard. Have you ever heard of him?

And you don't need some giant agency who's doing this. It's often not some agency. It's usually a group of people with a special interest. Interesting. So you don't need 50 years of hypnosis experience, even though there was most likely a hypnotist involved with Sirhan Sirhan. His name is Dr. Joyland West.

Okay. He wrote this book, Simulation and Simulacra. Mm-hmm. to where everything around us nowadays is a simulation of something. Walmart is a simulation of a market. And then you look at the food, there's a picture of it that doesn't represent what the actual food looks like. So it's symbols that point to symbols that point to symbols.

You go to Disneyland, it's just like, that's the idea of what our society is. Like, can we make a hyper real and hyper perfect simulation of something that is real?

and then 90 of disneyland is a simulation of something that has no original like cinderella right or peter pan or or fill in the blank so it's a simulation of a simulation that has no original right so we continue to get this labeling and it's just arrows that point to something And most of those arrows are just kind of pointing in the circular way that don't have any origin to point back to.

So, so much of our life is a simulated thing. The lights fake. The signs are fake. You go to McDonald's, you know, you know damn well the burger is not going to look like it does on the menu. Hyper-normalization. Yeah, we prefer it. And we vote for the candidate that fakes it the best. We vote for people that just say the right words. That's all we need them to do.

And if you go look at an analysis on any news channel, all the news channels, why did this side lose or why did this side win? They said the right things. Well, we should have said this and we should have aligned with this group and said these things. It's all about artificialness.

Yeah.

It really does. And you go to these cultures that don't have that. Like when you go down there, you said Costa Rica or Jamaica, it's like you feel like 15 pounds lighter and you wonder like – What's different? You're wondering like, oh, maybe I slept well. Maybe I ate something different. No, it's just you're surrounded by real people in a real environment.

There's probably nature all around you, which is exactly what your ancestors experienced. You're just closer to not confusing the shit out of the ancestors that are kind of living in our head. And if you think about the cells in our bodies— If we're eating cells and we're eating stuff that our ancestors' cells wouldn't understand, we get sick.

That's all it is. And I think we're just seeing – it feels different because we're in a place where our bodies were designed to be. We're in with real people. We're in with a community. And we live in a town or in a city that's small enough that reputation matters. That's the biggest thing. If I'm in New York City, my reputation doesn't matter at all.

I haven't read it.

You can be rude to everyone because you'll never see them again. We don't depend on our tribe anymore. And if we stop depending on tribe, we lose empathy. And then you have things like the bystander effect.

yeah people just step over a murder victim which has happened before it's a fusion of responsibility yeah and there's a great video about this where they did a study at liverpool street station in london and this woman laid on the ground and like people were stepping over her she was holding her stomach begging for help not just kind of like laying there she was openly calling out for help and crying out in pain

And people were just stepping over her. Really? Yeah. When was this done? I don't know. Philip Zimbardo. Philip Zimbardo. The guy who ran the Stanford Prison Experiment. He has a new thing on YouTube. Oh, it's not new. The Stanford Prison Experiment? Yeah. I haven't heard of that. Oh, my gosh. Let's not do that. Am I living under a rock? Leave that door shut. Don't tell me to leave it shut.

Now I want to crack it open. So he, Dr. Zimbardo did this experiment where essentially people, we got a hundred college students and I made a fake prison inside of an academic building. And I said, you 50 are prisoners. You 50 are guards. No rules. Okay. Prisoners go get in your cell and then like, boom, just let it go.

And it talked about how fast authority, even if it's fake, authority can start corrupting and like abuse of power. So everybody got pissed off that Dr. Zimbardo did that experiment. So he started the YouTube channel. He's an older guy. He's probably 78 or so now. Yeah. called the Heroic Imagination Project. And man, is it good.

It talks about all these experiments, but then how you can not fall into those traps. How can you get out of getting your head in the bystander effect? But just looking at the bystander effect, it's a funny phenomenon. But if I explain to you, let's say I walked in here this morning, this first time we met each other was today. I said, Denny, you wouldn't believe it.

I was outside of my hotel and people were filming a woman getting stabbed. a guy was standing there and filming a woman getting stabbed to death, you would think that person was a psychopath. That is the behavior of a psychopath, but it's the collective behavior of everyone in large cities. Oh, wow. So Dr. Robert Hare, who we talked about before, said psychopaths are attracted to large cities.

I think large cities are factories for psychopathy. Whoa. All of the behaviors that we talk about with crowd psychology and how crowds behave and how they don't help each other, it's all psychopathic behavior. But it's universal because it's in a large city. Oh, everybody does it. It's not a big deal. It's psychopathy. But it's temporary. So I lived in a semi-large city.

It was in Chesapeake, Virginia. And the population of the town I live in right now is 2,000.

Yeah. And I'd say worrying about the future is just us right now making those choices. Maybe just a hundred of us right now listening or 10,000 people that are listening right now is I'm going to prioritize my kids getting in nature, getting away from that blue light and doing everything that Jack was talking about. Yeah. Just getting my kids to a place where I'll sacrifice for them.

I'll move out of the city or I'm going to get to a place where I don't need a lot of information. You know what the front page of the newspaper of the town I live in was just a week ago when it showed up? A stolen bike. Front page news. A bicycle was stolen. Wow. And me seeing that as bad news was beautiful. I want to just wake up to that as the news that I get.

What's going on around my community that I need? Our brains were not designed to handle over maybe 300, 400 people. It's just not. That's why empathy disappears. That's why psychopathy starts coming in. We can't have empathy for that many people. We just can't. We're not possible.

So for any... I'll give you a quick rule of thumb. For any weird thing that happens, I ask myself... Maybe three or four questions here. Number one, is it happening in proximity to a large political event like an election or an inauguration? Number two, am I seeing it repeated on multiple news cycles where people are using similar phrases? Like if I spot similar phrases – I'm seeing a PSYOP.

Midnight Climax.

So if I'm seeing copy-paste along seven different networks and they're all kind of saying the same thing, I'm seeing something that might be a PSYOP. And the next would be if I'm not seeing the government intervene in what's going on and they're remaining semi-silent, they put out a statement today. I don't know if you saw that. Some kind of statement. And it was just the most meaningless blather.

And there is no structure in our brain designed for language. We have one for vision, for smell, for touch, motor control, all this other stuff. There's no hierarchical structure in our brain for language. That's because it's pretty new to us as a species, and our brains haven't changed in 200,000 years. But we think, what do I need to say?

And when I get clients, the first thing that clients ask me for is, we need a better script. I need more techniques and tactics. I need to know what to say. And I immediately go back and we're 30 feet from an airport as we're sitting here right now. And I go back and I say, if I gave you a flight checklist, every single detail on it for a Cessna 172, are you a pilot now? No, no.

I mean, you can follow those little steps, but it's not going to make you fly the plane. Well, it's not going to make you do a good job. If I spent $50 million developing the most incredible sales script that's ever been written in the history of humankind. And I take that and I hand it to somebody who has social anxiety and I tell them to go make a sale. It's not going to be very effective.

So we fail to recognize as human beings that if I can influence that mammal part of the human brain, then I get results every time. And when it comes down to psyops, it's the same thing. And that mammal part of our brain has four parts or four things that influence it. And that spells out the word fate. And that's focus, authority, tribe, and emotion, right?

That's the most beautiful way I've ever heard it described. Everyone who's at the very, very top of the top does this. Tell me more.

those four things if you watch a the most brilliant way to demonstrate this is if you just watch a video of caesar milan the the dog whisperer he's training these dogs he doesn't sit down and talk to these dogs and say listen i know i know you haven't had a great life i know you were abused in the last home but this is these are new people they're great they're great folks

That's a mammalian brain that we're dealing with. And it's the same thing for human beings. And we can go into, I could show you some beautiful examples of how fast like you could talk a human being into murdering a total stranger. The average person can be talked into murder in about an hour. What do you mean? We're going to get into it if we have time. Of course.

But that's the biggest mistake, that we need to understand what influences the mammalian part of the human brain, that focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. Those four things are what truly influence human beings. It's not about language. And I spent my whole life learning, or the beginning parts, learning, like, what are the words I need to say? What's the sneaky little script that takes place?

But if we look at, and this is all going to tie back into how we're being influenced by social media, and it's not the language we're hearing, it's not the reports of all this stuff is going down, these attacks are happening. Those words are almost meaningless to us. It's the imagery.

And even like if you're thinking about just a quick sidetrack to that, if you're setting goals, just writing goals down in language doesn't do as much as you've heard of vision boards before. It doesn't do as much as that. So when I'm teaching my clients how to set goals, the first question I ask is how could you show your dog what your goals are?

If your goals are not written in a way that you could show it to a dog, you're a lot less likely to accomplish them. We have to get down to the mammalian brain because it's in charge. So for anybody who thinks like, oh, the human new part of our brain is in charge of us, try to hold your breath until you die. You can't. You can't do it. That mammalian brain is going to knock your ass out.

You're going to be laid out on the floor. So that is one of the biggest things that we really need to understand is that when we're talking about any of this influence, it comes down to that focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. Go ahead. There's an experiment that took place in the 60s. It's what I'm talking about here when you get a stranger to murder somebody else.

This is called the Milgram experiment. Are you familiar with it? No. Can we bring it up? Well, just maybe some images of it. So there is, let me just pretend like Patrick's a volunteer for this experiment.

Yeah. But I just want to put you in the scene here. You respond to an ad in the paper. It says where Yale University is doing an experimentation on learning and the power of learning.

And you take the ad in the paper. They say, we'll give you a lunch voucher or a Subway sandwich or something for participating. So you take it up there. You go into this building. You go into a hallway. There's another guy there. You're both volunteers. There's a guy in a lab coat that's running this thing. And he says, we're going to draw straws.

One of you will be the teacher and one will be the learner. So the other guy draws the learner's straw. He goes to you. You become the teacher. Unbeknownst to you, this other guy is a volunteer. He's in on it. You're the only person participating in the experiment. This guy in the lab coat walks you into this little room, which you can see like an above view right there.

Where the T is, that's teacher. The top right. So the T is the teacher, the E is you. The E is the experimenter. That's the dude in the lab coat. Okay. So Patrick is the T right there. So they sit you down at this machine and they say, this is an electric shock machine. And it goes from like 30 volts all the way to the right where it says XXX danger extreme shock.

And the goal is, so Patrick, you're going to read these little word groups to this guy in the other room. And before the experiment, they let you go into the other room right there. And you watch that guy get strapped to a shocking device. The L. Yeah, the learner.

So you watch that dude get strapped up to a learning device. And you're going to read these words out and see if he can remember them. And if he gets it wrong, you hit this button and deliver a shock. That wall right there is paper thin. It's just some drywall. So you can hear them go, ah, you can, oh, for some of those intro shocks.

But every time he gets one wrong, you have to take that little slider and move that voltage up one notch. And shock him again. So the guy keeps getting it wrong, keeps getting it wrong. Around 250 volts, he's screaming every time. Around 275, he's saying, I have a heart condition. I want to stop. I don't want to do this anymore. I want to stop. I'm done with this. Come get me out of here.

Around 400 volts, there's no more reaction. It's total silence, and he's not even answering the questions anymore. So you turn back around to this guy in the lab coat. And you're like, he's not answering these questions anymore. And the guy in the lab coat says, it's important that you continue. The experiment requires that you continue. So any non-answer must be treated as an incorrect answer.

Please continue. So you keep reading out these words into a microphone and shocking, increase, shock, increase, all the way to this 450 extreme thing. So before this experiment took place, these psychiatrists got together and they said – How many people are going to go through with this? Who's going to go all the way and kill somebody? Or so they think they're going to kill somebody.

The shocks are not real. And they thought 0.8%. You have to be a psychopath. You have to want to hurt people. And in reality, 67% of people went all the way. All the way. This is a big deal. So Stanley Milgram's trying to find out, do people just respond to orders like the Nuremberg trials were going on? And these Nazis were saying we were just following orders.

So Dr. Milgram says, let's test to see if that's true. So 250 volts is enough to kill you, right? And 100%, 100% of people went up to 250 volts, 100%. So there's a lot going on there, but none of it, there was no, the guy in the lab coat didn't have some secret hypnosis trick. He didn't have some sales script.

It was obedience to authority was the main thing. There's a tall guy in a lab coat who looks like an official, looks like a doctor, and Dr. Milgram hypothesized that they undergo something called an agentic shift where they become an agent on behalf of an authority figure. Does that make sense? Yes.

But the credibility is novelty is first. So if you go back to our ancestral roots, let's say 10,000 years ago, let's say you and I lived in a tribe together, and every day you and me go out and we fish, and that's our job to bring fish back.

And every day we pass by this giant-ass bush, and one day we're coming back to our village together, we're carrying the fish, and behind that bush we hear a stick snap. Where is both of our focus right there? We're not thinking about our kids. We're not thinking about anybody back at home. Sure. Only on that stick. So that's what we call novelty.

So when something is new or unexpected, it generates a tremendous amount of focus. And then focus leads. So focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. So focus comes first. You respond to a newspaper ad you've never done before.

into a building at Yale University you've never been to, to meet two guys you've never met, into a room you've never been in, in front of a machine that you've never seen before, reading these lists you've never seen before. Everything is brand new. So we have a tremendous amount of novelty, which generates focus. Once I have focus, you start becoming hyper-responsive to authority.

So now we have this guy in a lab coat that's saying, you need to shock this dude in the other room. And this experiment's been repeated many, many times with very similar results. And now you're Now you're all in. Once you deliver that first shock, that's an agreement. You've made an identity agreement. It's just like the foot in the door technique with sales.

Because once you've made a tiny little agreement at the beginning, now I've redefined who I am as a person. I am the person that's participating in this experiment. You've made that agreement. So it's focus, authority. And now you don't want to be seen as somebody who's disrupting everything. So now we have tribe. Does this make sense?

The people that didn't continue had a higher level of autonomy, and their locus of control was very, very internal. Oh, locus of control, meaning... Like, am I in charge of my results or is it the environment? Right. And like I, I, I train attorneys all the time. We do trials and jury selections and stuff like that.

And when we want to determine locus of control, cause you know, you're allowed to ask the jury one or two questions. Sure. And strike them if you want. We just ask them, how does somebody catch a cold? That's it. You get one group of people that says, well, uh, There's kids wiping their boogers all over the escalator handles. There's people coughing all over the place. People don't wear masks.

People are just absolutely inconsiderate. If they're sick, they get out of the house. They don't stay home. They're just inconsiderate bastards. You hear the other person say, well, I didn't take care of my health. I didn't wash my hands. I didn't sanitize. I didn't wear a mask. It's all about them. That's the perfect way to determine locus of control. Just in one little quick question.

So those people had a very strong internal locus of control. And that's like if you're a parent out there, anybody that's a parent, I know you have kids that are like 11, 12 right now. When they go to the doctor, I let them know you are in charge. That doctor is your employee. They will leave when you tell them to leave. You ask all the questions that you want to ask.

And you say, come over here, take a look at this. So you're in charge of everything. You have a rash under your arm because there's some deodorant that made a red mark. Ask him. You can do anything you want. Ask him anything you want. So you want to teach your kids to have that locus of you're not domineering.

You're not ordering the doctor around, but you are understanding like he's there for you. And you're in charge of the situation. You can dictate what happens. So giving them that agency of you can determine your outcomes in life is so important. And that's where we have things like white coat syndrome. There are people that get misdiagnosed from doctors and still suffer the symptoms.

So they get a diagnosis of something they don't have and start developing symptoms right away.

The number one thing that I would say anybody could teach their kid, and I wish I could go back, and I did nine deployments over my career. I missed out on like half my kid's life. It's the biggest trauma for me is not having been there. You've seen The Ultimate Gift? Of course.

Yeah. It's better than the movie, if anybody out there. I agree. The book's better than the movie. It's one of those books that, yeah, if you're a successful person, you buy multiple copies because you know I'm going to give this to as many people as I can. But getting your kids to a point where they no longer see the world through hierarchy.

So I'm in a position, and I teach people to have confidence and authority. We can definitely get into this if you want to, like the elements of what tricks a human brain into seeing an authority figure. What is it that tricks that mammalian brain? But the biggest mistake that most people make is,

In order for me to have confidence, in order for me to have authority, I need to have some understanding of hierarchy. I need to be above other people. If I'm an authority, I have to be above Patrick on this podcast. I've got to be better or higher. Like seeing the world through hierarchy will ruin your life.

So when we're talking about that doctor example, they're working for you and they're your partner. They're your partner in this. So all the ways that people mess up in business, and I'm sure you've learned this lesson many times. I'm still having to learn it. But I see the world through hierarchy, which automatically means I'm going to see competition instead of collaboration.

So it becomes a competitive instead of a collaborative environment, which is not very good for life. It's not good for kids. But getting out of that mindset of seeing hierarchy. So if you have true authority, you have true confidence, it's no longer about me being better than anybody else.

If there's anything that we're comparing ourselves with somebody else's, can I be more comfortable than the other person in the room? And that's it. Just can you be more comfortable? So if you have an 8-, 9-, 10-year-old, I want to challenge you to move slower than every other kid in your class today. Just can you do that for one day?

So you're going to teach them to kind of get control over their body and just slow down and be more in control. So you kind of get the physiological part moving first, if that makes any sense. What else? And those are the building blocks of authority.

It helps to relax your body. So we can dig into hypnosis as much as you want to, but when a hypnotist is talking to you and they're like, oh, yes, all your muscles are relaxing, yes, those little muscles around the eyes, the scalp relaxing, it's making your body, it's forcing your physiology to get to a place where your brain starts releasing safety chemicals.

And our number one safety chemical in our brain is called GABA. And GABA is just basically what hypnosis is. GABA chemicals going into the brain and then getting our brain into something called a theta brainwave state. Bring it up. So it's gamma-immunobutyric acid. So it's an inhibitory neurotransmitter.

It's kind of like the RA in the college dorm that tells everybody to turn the music down, just calm down, you know, it lights out. That's kind of what it does. It just inhibits excitement in the brain. So if you're doing that, if I'm teaching my child to get control, and this is what I would teach my clients.

This is what I teach clients that are 20 years older than me, that are big business owners and stuff. If I can get you to get control over your physiology, your psychology is going to follow next.

The benefit is gaining control over self, getting control over yourself. So you're not bringing them home and saying, all right, I want you to sit down here and meditate on this yoga mat for 45 minutes. Kids aren't going to do that. But you are saying you're getting the slow little steps of evolving, so increasing and evolving levels of self-control. And it starts with those bodily movements.

And you're not telling some kid, especially a young boy, you're not saying sit still. That's very different. But you are saying just move a little slower. And it's not a P.E. P.E., that's your job to move fast. But every other time throughout the day, move slower than the other people. Just gaining some dominion over your body.

Oh, yeah. And it's good.

Those teachings in Scientology are actually pretty good.

Here's the ultimate answer. They are at a point where they are so in control of themselves that no matter what their behavior is, they still exude authority. Makes sense. Because there's five elements to what makes authority in a human being, according to me anyway, and that is confidence, discipline, And discipline is not something other people can really see right away.

But if you and I were sitting at an airport or something and I said, Pat, just find somebody who's super disciplined, you could do it within a few minutes.

So discipline is something that we don't profile consciously, but we process it in a gut feeling way where we've had a conversation with somebody where they've read those articles on LinkedIn of 15 ways to exude powerful body language, like a CEO article. Stand taller. Give a firm handshake. Make better eye contact. All of that kind of stuff.

But you and I both met people that have all those traits, but something was off. Like after that conversation, it was like something was not right about this conversation because all of the gut feelings didn't line up. And all of us are in the business of giving other people gut feelings, whether you want to be or not. It's am I doing it right?

So that's confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment. Those are the five things that trigger the human brain to think this person is an authority figure.

So it's a gut feeling. It's not a conscious decision.

Overall or just the enjoyment? Just the enjoyment. Specific the last one you shared. Number one, it's the most magnetic human trait. It draws people to you. So you're way more likely to be a leader if you have not enjoyment as in you're celebrating shooting out confetti cans all day long. Right, right, right.

But just enjoyment is I'm enjoying the present moment, and I think the future looks bright. Like I have a generalized expectation that things are going to be all right in the future.

I think there's always going to be a break, but it won't be physical. Like you're not going to, it's not going to be super obvious, but there's going to be an over time. There's going to be gut feelings that people get. Something is not right. And we, we call that incongruency, right?

So when somebody's, what I, what I tell every one of my clients is the way that you're behaving off camera, when nobody's looking is going to affect every conversation that you have. So if you're, if I'm out there saying you need to be up at four 30 in the morning, I better damn well be doing that. And if I'm saying you need to do this with your life, I should be doing those things.

And that's where you have any sales team I've trained. I just finished a BMW training. And the number one thing that we took away, we have an assessment. It's an authority assessment to tell how much authority you have in your life and exact points of where you're lacking. I'll even give it to you. You can put it in a PDF in the show notes or whatever. But it's an authority assessment.

And that was the biggest problem. Everybody that had low sales numbers had different behavior off camera. They weren't being themselves. And it sounds so stupid, just like you hear in elementary school. Well, just be yourself, honey. Just go out there and just be yourself. But it goes a little deeper than that. And it's just like you be yourself, but what kind of self are you?

You need to become something that is okay with you showing up in public.

It was my intro. My grandmother had that book.

I know it. I had a hardback first edition that my grandmother had. It was amazing.

Maybe. Maybe a pretty big influence. And her husband, my grandfather, was a senator. So there was a lot of kind of that slow movement and master your mind mindset will dictate your outcome.

So when we're young, especially you and I are both in the military. We're almost the same age. I'm 43. When I was in the military, I joined when I was 17. And... I was in a state of I need to be pumped up. And I saw the world through hierarchy. And that was just kind of a default mode for me. It had just come out of high school and all this.

So if we draw a pendulum, and on the far end, on the far right side, we have something called posturing. And on the far left, we have collapse. And if I'm young enough to where I don't know the world yet, I will lean into collapse every once in a while. Even if I'm big, even if I have confidence, I'm going to start collapsing.

But what's attractive to me at a young age are people that posture because that looks like it's the opposite of where I am. It's not the middle of that pendulum because we haven't talked about the middle of the pendulum yet. But it looks, I'm over here on this side of the pendulum. The opposite looks like the solution.

And that's a huge problem that a lot of people have is I'm going to go to the opposite of where I am. The center of that between posturing and collapse is composure. And the more we kind of start drifting there, we see that that's the answer. And we're more attracted to people that have that level of composure that we're seeking. We're no longer seeking that posturing thing anymore.

And the best example I could ever think of for this is Andy Griffith. He's like the ultimate example of what authority is, the confidence, the leadership, discipline, gratitude, enjoyment. and living in composure. And you have guests on here every once in a while that are very high energy, very, very high, and they're a little bit out of composure.

And you've had arguments on the show, which I've seen a couple of times. Man, you had Alex Jones on here, I think, last year.

So I think... When it comes down to composure, Andy Griffith is such a great example. And you are as well. And I'm not saying this to just blow smoke up your ass. But when those people, you can see it in many different episodes of yours, that when people are here and they're freaking out, you're the one that says, all right, hold on. Hold on a second. And you kind of bring a little composure.

Your composure is contagious, right? So that's when you tell leadership is, is this person's behavior contagious to the people around them? That's the measure of leadership.

Yeah.

All right. So I love that you asked this. So I get hired by companies a lot to do kind of employee screenings and all this kind of stuff. And there's a company out there, I can't say the name, but it's a medical company. They make medical instruments. Employee screening? Yeah, for C-suite. They want to find people that, you know, they're hiring for C-suite and it's a big deal.

I mean, it could be a billion dollar mistake. So- They say we want to screen out these guys that have extremely high narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy. So I developed this like five-page checklist that they could kind of have somebody take this assessment that would trick someone into revealing some of those traits.

And then this took me months, and then I gave it to them, and they're like, no, no, no, we mean just what's one question we can ask? So, of course, we want instant, immediate results, like there's some kind of Harry Potter wizard spell that they can do that's going to reveal this person. So it took me a while, but we came up with the question.

And the question is, what's the biggest thing you learned about yourself in that stressful time, that experience, that past relationship? Fill in the blank. I mean, this would work on a speed date. What's one of the biggest things you learned about yourself?

Specific to a difficult time or a stressful time. So for some people, they're going to say, well, I learned that I have a tendency to overdo things or I lost my temper or I did something wrong. And you'll get genuine lessons from most people. And this is not some definitive test. So anybody listening, this is not some crazy perfect test.

But with the other people, you're a lot more likely to hear things like, And I learned that I shouldn't trust companies right away. I should be a little more skeptical about what I'm getting myself into. I learned that I shouldn't make business deals unless I fully know somebody's background because people aren't very trustworthy. Most people aren't trustworthy.

So you're going to hear like all kinds of blame shifting, even in the relationship question. Like, well, I learned that I shouldn't open myself up to a partner right away because they're going to cheat on me. They're going to lie to me. So it's always somebody else's fault. And that became, to this day, that's the first thing that they ask in interviews.

Man, that's a good question. I think the average person just looking at what's going on is we're always involved in psyops all the time. And when I say psyops, there's a part of the U.S. Army that's special operations, that's psyops. And when we say psyops here, we won't be referring to like this is the U.S. Army. We're talking about just general psychological operations here.

Yeah, she was at CAFFEY, I think. Can you bring up an image to make sure we got the right one that Patrick's talking about?

Terrifying.

Yeah. Truly. So this is psychopathy. That's pure psychopathy. And one thing I've noticed, this is my opinion, and other people may see something very similar. If you see somebody who's been happy their whole life... you're going to see little crow's feet form right here, even around the age of 19 or 20. This is not like later in life.

You're going to see them start to etch on the face because that's a very common expression they make all day throughout the day, very regularly.

Right there. There? The crow's feet on the outer edge of the eye right here. Yeah. And you'll see what? You'll see little wrinkles from very frequent smiling.

Yeah, or they smile a lot. Interesting.

So one of our things is our emotional billboard is our forehead. And we do this.

So I got, uh, we, there's this behavior we have called an eyebrow flash. Okay. Which about 80% of people will return an eyebrow flash behavior without even knowing that they did it. That's how socially responsive we are. And notice we're, I mean, this is everything we're talking about with authority and leadership and all this, none of that has anything to do with language.

So it's who we are, not what we say. Right. And so when it comes down to this eyebrow flash, it's this. When we raise our eyebrows while we're talking to somebody, maybe for emphasis, and we're kind of bringing our eyebrows up like this. So you'll see somebody who's very social. They'll have those lines on the middle of their forehead. Does this make sense so far? All right.

But if you're seeing large-scale things happen, the first thing you want to look at is what's the timing of this event and what's the context of what's going on. And then right away, what is the information that's being suppressed and what's being forced out into the public? Like these passports that happened and the ID card that was found in this guy who burned in a Tesla.