Chris
Appearances
48 Hours
Up In Flames
You knew Michael Tardio. You knew Christopher Munson. You know, you're one of the last people seen talking to them.
48 Hours
Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer
And I told him, okay, you got 10 seconds. Finally, I kicked the door in. The image will be with me forever. We could see in the kitchen that there was a body on the floor, a lot of blood.
48 Hours
Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer
She was gagging and trying to breathe, and I thought, one for the good guys, she's going to make it.
48 Hours
Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer
We started searching the residence. There was a lot of photograph equipment, and all of us were amazed at the amount of photographs that he had there of young girls, very young girls. We found a lot of ID, picture ID of a Rodney Acala. He was a student at UCLA.
48 Hours
Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer
When I kicked in the front door, the suspect went out the back door.
48 Hours
Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer
I was flabbergasted, to say the least. It just amazed me.
48 Hours
Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer
I was out doing my patrols. We just started our shift that day. And I was driving down Sunset Boulevard, and I received a call, a beige-colored car with no license plates, following this little girl.
48 Hours
Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer
thinks it's suspicious follows him and puts a call into lapd former los angeles police officer chris camacho reached the location and knocked on the door and i said police officer open the door i need to talk to you this male appeared at the door i will always remember that face at that door very evil face And he says, I'm in the shower, I gotta get dressed.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
He had gotten where he just would not do anything. He was all the time playing golf, going to the lake, going out with his friends.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
No. I had a debit card. It had his name on it. I was free to use it however I wanted to.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
I'm the mother who took care of everything, took care of everybody. I was the one that my children called when they needed help. I was always there for them. I never told them no.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
The Scott that was in that courtroom was not my son. He was well rehearsed. Could you stand for the jury, please? Sure.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
Had a house, a barn. We had four horses. We had I don't know how many goats.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
It has been called the Ferris wheel. And it was, but it was our Ferris wheel. It was our life.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
The most heart-wrenching, gut-wrenching thing I had ever sat through in my entire life.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
It was at the time that I'd walk out of that courtroom at nighttime, I was ready to scream at the top of my lungs.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
It was horrible. They carried me immediately over to the jail. I was alone, curled up in a fetal position.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
We had been out looking for quite some time. We had been over every square inch of that property.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
I know Scott killed his father. He took my husband, the father of Chris, Emily, and Amanda. He took Big Daddy from our grandchildren.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
Scott, this is unforgivable. Scott, I have spent an entire life of loving and protecting you, but this I refuse to cover for you.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
And I plead with you to roll this verdict out. Help me get justice for the correct person. As bad as it sounds, I want to be there to watch him chained and shackled and brought to justice.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
I want everyone, but especially my children, my grandchildren, and at this point, the world. I didn't do this. I know who did. And it's our son, Scott. Without a shadow of a doubt, I know he did it.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
Scott wanted that property to be his. He had made that known to countless people. It's the perfect murder. You kill your daddy, you set your mother up, she goes to prison, you get everything.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
Gary had made it very well known that Scott needed to get a job. Things were fixing to change on that property.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
I certainly hope so. I do. But I will be sitting there right behind my son in court.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
He came in and wanted to know if I was going to prepare dinner. And I said, Gary, there's enough food in that refrigerator there to feed Cox's army. I said, if you don't want it, then go get something to eat.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
And I told them, I said, go ask Big Daddy to go ride it with you all. And they said they couldn't find him.
48 Hours
The Farris Wheel
He and Scott would get into it pretty heavily. I mean, you know. I mean, they'd come to blows just over things because Gary was so anal about everything. I mean, Scott's hot. I mean, he is. He's hot tempered.
48 Hours
Who Killed Moriah Wilson?
Pretty early on, I looked up to Colin when I was coming up on the scene.
48 Hours
Who Killed Moriah Wilson?
He was the one to beat. He loved to kind of create a show around bike racing, kind of selling bike racing. He was really passionate about it.
48 Hours
Who Killed Moriah Wilson?
She had a really strong, you know, kind of, you know, love for travel. You know, she'd spent time pretty much, you know, globe hopping around the world. Really, you know, kind of interesting person.
48 Hours
Who Killed Moriah Wilson?
Colin's relationship with Mo, like, was... Like, they were both bike racers. They had, like, a romantic relationship.
48 Hours
The Footprint
When I proceeded to where the body was on the side of the bed, I looked down. I could see the imprint in blood that looked like a left foot and a right foot. It's an actual bare foot. Wow.
48 Hours
The Footprint
The person who put the footprint down had to step in wet blood. and it had to be after she was stabbed or bleeding.
48 Hours
The Footprint
They went into the apartment and they found that the shower was still running and causing all this flooding next door.
48 Hours
The Footprint
This was a violent, bloody crime scene. This is one of the bloodiest that I'd been to.
48 Hours
The Footprint
Yes, they sure can. In this case, we could establish that Jeannie Childs was hit in front of the bathroom door.
48 Hours
The Footprint
There was a lot of activity going on there. Why was the sink faucet still dripping? Was he trying to clean up?
48 Hours
The Footprint
Did not take that knife in. I looked at it, and there was no apparent blood on there. We never found any actual weapon there that was a murder weapon.
48 Hours
The Footprint
That drew my attention right away. And right next to it, I see the socked foot of Jeannie Childs.
48 Hours
The Footprint
That would be my feeling. It's most likely the perpetrator's footprint. If there's the friction ridge on the feet, like the friction ridge on your fingers, there's potential to identify the person's foot that made them. That was very, very significant.
48 Hours
The Footprint
On 13th of June, 1993, I was on call as a team leader for our crime scene team. We had pagers then, no cell phones. And I got a page. It was a sergeant requesting our assistance on the 21st floor of this high rise apartment building.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
White Lotus Saved TV, Drake Lawsuit Gets Worse, & Elon's Tesla Burning Terrorism
Yeah, you did.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
White Lotus Saved TV, Drake Lawsuit Gets Worse, & Elon's Tesla Burning Terrorism
She said it with conviction.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
White Lotus Saved TV, Drake Lawsuit Gets Worse, & Elon's Tesla Burning Terrorism
Black people come up with the best homophobia, bro.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
White Lotus Saved TV, Drake Lawsuit Gets Worse, & Elon's Tesla Burning Terrorism
I'm glad you add that part, the really racist ones.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Very small margin of error. It's like a million stunts in a row, but you don't rehearse it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And what happens? So I got a bad concussion, but it didn't get better. So I learned later on, I've been getting concussions playing sports and wrestling for a long time. I didn't realize they were concussions. I wasn't educated on them. So I thought like as long as my vision went normal or the headache went away, I was okay.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes, and speech impediment. Back then, it was if you were knocked out, that was a concussion. And then if you weren't knocked out, it was a gray area. You know, you didn't take it too seriously. If you'd still play, you'd never go tell a doctor. It would never get into the system. So it wouldn't count. But this last one, my head was just throbbing all the time. I couldn't remember anything.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And so I kept wrestling for a few matches until they sort of realized, something's really wrong with you. Why don't you take some time off?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I took a few weeks off and then apparently I learned I was accidentally put on the roster for the next weekend shows. And I thought that was a test of like get back to work. I went to the doctor and I'm like, I'm fine. even though I wasn't fine. And I went and wrestled again for a few more weeks, and I sort of went into the ground.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I stopped only because the match I was supposed to do, my manager on the road, Teddy Long, called ahead and was like, he's not making sense on the plane. Don't let him wrestle. And then that night in the hotel room, I had my first instance of REM behavior disorder. Do you know about this?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
You know how when you're dreaming, in your mind, you're moving around and all that stuff, but your body turns off your limbs. That broke. And so I turned back on. And so I acted out my first dream. Girlfriend I was with at the time was in the room. She woke up to me standing on the bed trying to climb the wall. Couldn't wake me up. And I remember in my dream, something was falling.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I had to catch it. And she watched me head first on the wall, do the nightstand, and not wake up for another two minutes. Then I woke up and I'm like, that's chaos. And she's crying and screaming. I'm scared to go to sleep. I woke up the next day. I went and told Mickey Mann what happened to me. And I go, you're not wrestling until we figure this out. And by then I'd just done too much.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
They can repair, but when they die, they don't come back.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah. Well, I only know brain. I don't care about the body.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
What's down here? But the idea is you don't get new brain cells. Now we know you do get some new brain cells. There's some neurogenesis, but it's not nearly as much as we would want it to be.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So when you get like a severe brain injury, you don't come back. You might build new pathways, new dendritic connections to compensate for
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, you build a new network to take over. The neuron is going to get eaten up by the brain. It's gone. A new neuron is not going to be in its place filling and making those thousands of connections.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Back in 2003, we didn't really do concussion rehab. It was just sort of like sit in a dark room until you feel better. We've now learned that doesn't really help. And so I just never got better. So I basically would act out my dreams every other night and it was chaos. I was taking medicine to be sedated and I had a chronic headache all the time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And so after this 12 months of hell, I told them, even if I do get better, I'm probably not coming back to wrestle. If I actually can get rid of this pain, I don't want to lose it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, exactly. Now I'm the idiot who went to Harvard and then destroyed his brain because he wanted to have some fun being a pro wrestler. Oh, man. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
That's a very common thing. I'll share a similar story because it's actually in that book I just gave you just because it's so wild. It happened to Bubba Ray Dudley, a wrestler. Tables, ladders, chairs match. He forgot his mother died. recently and apparently was going around the show asking people, how's my mother doing? And they all knew she died.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
He kept reliving his mother's death over and over again until someone figured out, guys, stop answering the question.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
You said it never got better. I still have the wrong behavior once in a while. I wake up thinking I'm choking to death. I always think something's wrong with my throat. The headaches are mostly gone, but it's more than a decade. I'm doing better. Thank you. So the reason I shifted. I'm so happy you're better, Chris. Thank you, Dex.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The reason I shifted is because, so there's a doctor who played a very important role in my life, Dr. Bob Cantu. He was the eighth doctor WD sent me to, but the first one to help me understand what I was going through, because every other doctor would ask me, this concussion you had a few months ago, your first one?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I'm like, yeah, because I'd never been told by someone in a white coat I had a concussion. He was the first one to say, well, how many times have you been hitting the head and you saw stars, you forgot where you were, you're dizzy, you're confused, and I was like, oh, that happens all the time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Every couple of weeks. We have a bunch of stories of wrestling matches and football things. So he goes, okay, well, if you had a lot of concussions, it sounds like you didn't take any time off because they weren't diagnosed. I'm like, no. He goes, those two things are bad and they can lead to what you're going through post-concussion syndrome. And I'm like, really?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
How am I a Harvard grad who'd been banging my head for 19 years and having no idea what a concussion was? That bothered me. And he was like, I don't know what that means long term. The data is questionable. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to figure this out.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So I took what I'd learned from that consulting job and I went over to the Harvard Medical School Library and I started reading every study ever published on concussions to look for the secret. Wow. And as I'm digging into that, I'm realizing, oh, we've actually known for 100 years that concussions are bad. We used to take care of them much more seriously than we did before.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
In the 1950s, the Harvard team doctor for the football program said, three concussions in your lifetime, and you can't play here anymore. You should retire. Wow. That's how serious it was in the 50s. So what happened? The thing that I could pick up was the NFL was orchestrating a nice big tobacco cover-up about it. It had sparked many times throughout their life.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But in the 90s, when Steve Young and Troy Quinn both had problems, they said, all right, we're going to take care of this. And they started a concussion committee full of friendly doctors who were now publishing research in the medical journal Neurosurgery saying there's nothing wrong with concussions. We put half our guys back in who are knocked unconscious. None of them had died.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Therefore, there's no long-term effects. And no one's ever developed any problems long-term. And I knew how to read the studies. And I was like, well, these studies are designed to show that finding. If you had to retire mid-season from a concussion, they couldn't follow up with you legally because you were no longer part of the NFL. You would just drop out of the study. You died on the field.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah. So I got pissed. And so working with Dr. Kandu, learning about all this, I said, all right, I'm going to write a book about this. And that became this book, Head Games, Football's Concussion Crisis, that said, A, concussions are much worse than realized. B, there's this thing CT, two cases have been found. And by the way, the NFL is covering this up. So that was 06 when that came out.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Got a $4,000 advance. Wow. I paid $21,000 for libel insurance.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But luckily I was right. Okay, so when do you pick up your PhD? In 2017. So it's a long leap. And it's because I started a nonprofit, started a research center at Boston University School of Medicine. But I was the guy who just got brained for a brain bank. And literally they had an office and they were like, hey, as long as you're in the building, why don't you just go down the hall and get a PhD?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Because the shine is going to wear off of the interesting ex-athlete. Yes, yes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
A concussion is a traumatic brain injury that changes the way your brain functions.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
There is no objective test. It's still a clinical diagnosis. But basically, there's two things happening. One is there's a chemical cascade and metabolic changes that happen from the energy going through your brain or from your neuron stretching or axon stretching and all these things happening.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And then there's also, in probably most cases, physical damage, but not stuff that we can pick up on a standard MRI.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Just to explain, you have 80-some billion neurons in your brain. They all have long projections. Some of them go from your brain down to the bottom of your spinal cord, and they're 1 20th width of a human hair. When they stretch, they get injured and they open up your channels. So you get too much calcium flooding inside of your neuron, potassium flooding outside your neuron. It's not operating.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes. And the calcium is affecting your mitochondria. You can't produce energy. The electrical signals aren't working right. You get restricted blood flow. The whole thing just sort of is malfunctioning. But it all depends on where it's malfunctioning and how much your brain's impacted to determine symptoms.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So that's why some concussions you can't remember things because parts of your memory are impaired. But other times it's because you can't see because your visual cortex is impacted.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Well, your frontal lobe is more sensitive to the trauma. It's big. It's right in front. If your brain was a sphere, you'd be a lot better off. But because it's not quite shaped like that and your frontal lobe is sort of hanging off to the front, when your brain moves violently, those axons are more likely to get stretched and twisted.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It's not well designed for trauma, and it's also tethered in the back down to your spinal cord and your brainstem, so it's flopping around in there.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
They're looking for bleeding for sure to make sure you don't die.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right, and they've got to release that or else you're going to have some real long-term problems or could die. So that's what you're usually looking for. But your brain doesn't swell too much from a standard concussion. Most people will never swell.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Trying to convince you not to go wakeboarding the next day.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, but it definitely can swell a little bit. You just wouldn't pick it up much.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, no, I appreciate you guys mention it a lot.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Okay. Near my wife's family so that I can be living the dream on the road. Do you have kids? Six and four, Kenzie and Charlie.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
CTE is a degenerative brain disease that is caused by repetitive traumatic brain injuries, right? So it's only seen in association with a lot of hits to the head. So one of the important things to say right away is that one concussion is not causing CTE in almost anybody. Because now we've looked back at brain banks and even ones where people have had
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
a severe brain injury from a car accident or something, and you almost never see it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
That data is usually from hospitalized concussions, which you had. And the theory is there's sort of two things going on. One is that maybe it's changing the way your brain functions and maybe you're in chronic pain. Headaches is very much associated with suicide. So maybe there's some of that going on. And then on the other side, though, it might affect your life in a big way.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It might affect your job, your relationships. Your circumstances have changed.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It is complicated to unravel. So we don't want anyone to think suddenly you got one concussion, you're going to go kill yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
For some reason, football being probably the best example, I took 10,000 hits to my head. One of those hits was hard enough to spark this inflammatory process around a blood vessel at the depths of the sulcus in my frontal lobe is where we usually find the beginnings of it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, which again, we think is part of the physics issue. That part of your brain is most likely to stretch. Like rats don't get CTE because they don't have that fold. So the depths of the sulcus, the energy of a rapidly rotating brain causes it to go to that bottom of the valley. And that's where we see the initial lesion.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And then for some reason, that lesion will keep spreading in the absence of further hits. We think in most cases. Explain that. We don't exactly know. Atrophy begets atrophy. Misfolding proteins can act like a virus and can continue to spread. So you have a protein called tau in your axons and neurons that's sort of a structural element. And when the axon stretches, that tau can misfold.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And then it's sort of like a crack in a windshield that it just keeps spreading. And it can actually jump the synapse and go to another... Neuron. And so we don't understand, we can't diagnose this during life, which is why we're trying to get brains for study. So we only have these windows into at the time of death, what do we see? But now we pick up these small lesions in teenagers.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
You see that the older people have a lot of it. The younger people have these tiny lesions, and you can see the spread.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. The good news is at the beginning, we were a little more in the dark. But one of the great things at Boston University, we have this brain bank led by Anne McKee. She leads five other brain banks. And one of them is the Framingham Heart Study. Have you heard of this? No. So the town of Framingham outside Boston has been followed for generations.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And now they're old enough where they're dying. Thank God.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
That's where we learned all about how high blood pressure has later life implications for stroke and all these other things because we were following this town. So when we first published that group, there were 164 people who'd passed away in the study. One of them had CTE. And we also went back to everyone and asked about sports history, brain injury history.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
That's what I compare it to when I show healthy lungs and diseased lungs to help people appreciate how abnormal this is. When the NFL used to bring in international experts to tell us this was all fake, one of them would refer to it as the gingerbread brain for this Hall of Famer who died in his 90s whose brain had shrunk to like almost half its size and was all brown. This is just impossible.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Like, they must be faking it. We're like, no, that's actually how sad it is. And he made it to 90. He was in this institution for 20 years.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So punch drunk was first published in a major medical journal in 1928. Yeah, they figured out very early that boxers were getting very strange. Slurred speech, movement disorders, bizarre behaviors. There's a lot of literature from the 20s, 30s, 40s about punch drunk, then dementia pugilistica. They didn't really start looking at brains as much.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Until the 70s, there was a famous case series of it where they sort of talked about all these abnormal brains from boxers. But the problem was no one really dug into it. What defines CT is this abnormal tau protein. We didn't know how to see the protein until the late 70s. So it wasn't the original part of the diagnostic criteria because we hadn't invented the antibodies that make it show up.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So it's a lot of reasons why that didn't happen. But also in 1984, the American Medical Association said boxing shouldn't exist. It's too barbaric. It was sort of at that point that research on boxing stopped. And so it was like, yep, boxers get punched drunk. Well, end of story.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Occupational hazard. Nobody connected the dots to the fact that all these other sports...
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I agree that the social part of it is like they're punching each other in the head. They really don't expect to have problems.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It's not an epidemic. And it wasn't like it was the sons of doctors off doing it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So it's just like this other part of the culture.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
This has evolved over the last 15 years as we figured this out. But basically, the one thing that is best predicted when you have CTE pathology is cognitive decline. It'll start with executive dysfunction, meaning you're no longer making good decisions. Your career goes to hell. Make dumb investments. Very common. So executive function goes and then memory goes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Short-term memory first, but start to lose episodic memory, long-term memory. That is very frequent with end-stage CTE. And then we also see neurobehavioral dysregulation, impulse control problems, anger issues.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Well said, because one of my talking points is often that the number one thing you see is personality change, but that's not a diagnosable condition. So it's not like in our data, but they always say he's a different person.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
actually not true. That's something they're actually trying to help shift. Oh, really? Part of it is that a lot of the early cases were suicide cases. The third brain I ever procured was Chris Benoit, the wrestler who killed his wife and seven-year-old son himself. Oh, my God.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I mean, I guess you did just tell us that. It's a complicated story. When I was writing that book, He was the only guy in the locker room. I'd show up for shows once in a while. Half people welcomed me, half people thought I was lying and stealing a check and faking my injury. But he was the guy that took me seriously and sat me down and said, what are you learning about concussions?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
How many have you had? I asked him how many he had. He said, more than I can count. I'd known him for five years. He gave me his phone number. He goes, call me next week. I want to talk about it. I called him. Sounded like he was in the middle of an argument with somebody. He's like, I'll call you back. And he never called you back. And then months later, he killed his wife.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Killed his seven-year-old. Killed himself. Over 48 hours. Left Bibles and strange statements. And then more of us have talked to him. He was falling apart. He wouldn't plan matches anymore because he couldn't remember them. So he would just say, let's wing it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
He knew something was wrong and I didn't help him. And that sort of sparked. Now I have five full-time people just to deal with people reach out to us. We make sure we do everything we can to help them because this keeps happening.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes. The advice for everybody is treat the symptoms. So whatever the symptoms are, there's probably medication to work and make your life better. So on the suicide front, even though that's all the high-profile stuff, Dave Dewarson Jr.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, that's something we discourage. We don't need those brains anymore. That was a troubling trend that started. I've now learned it was like a conversation that a bunch of them had together.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Because they were all mad at the NFL for lying about everything back then. And so let's show them. So everyone's shooting themselves in the chest. We're trying to say, look, CT symptoms can be treatable. We can't stop the disease.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We need to work on that. There's help and there's hope, yeah. So anyone struggling, that's why we have a helpline. Reach out to the Concussion Legacy Foundation helpline. We will find you something and we will help make your life better. But we do keep seeing these suicides. But the actual overall rate of NFL suicide is not that much higher than the population.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, I think it's impossible that he didn't. And I think it sort of puts his life in perspective.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The kickers haven't been exempted from this because in the old days, the kickers were former position players. And in the new days, they're all former soccer players. They've added the ball too much. But actually, we cannot find CT trends by position. Even though linemen get hit maybe twice as much as other positions, but the average hit is bigger for those positions.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But there's also a missing piece of data that people didn't realize that sort of explains why we don't see it by position. Can you guess what that is?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. They all became wide receivers and running backs.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The other part is special teams. Kickoffs and punts are actually the most violent plays. Oh. But it's random who goes on those. And it's not tracked. When I did my interview, because I'm going to be donating my brain, it's like, so how many weeks were you on kickoff for your junior year of high school? And I'm like, I don't remember. Like I was on this week, I was off this week.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Kickoff's very fluid. Special teams changes all the time. Only in the NFL are there a handful of specialists who do special teams. Otherwise, it's usually the backups. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I think that is actually skewing our data. Some linemen are gunners or wedge busters in the old days and all these things that were very violent. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We don't have enough data. And especially because we can't diagnose the living people. But for football, we've looked at now over 400 NFL brains and 93% of them have had it. But we just published our first study of NHL players and it was 18 of 19. So it's actually a higher percentage.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, the ice is way worse than any football hit. And you're going faster because you're skating faster than you run.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I grew up in Oak Park and in Arlington Heights, which is right by him in Hoffman Estates.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The problem is no one's done the work. The CT stuff shut down in the 70s and we've started the first academic center back in 2008. So there's no research on this. For Alzheimer's, none of these diseases can be diagnosed definitively during life. Only until very recently we started imaging beta amyloid plaques, which was a breakthrough a little over a decade ago.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. So we've been piggybacking off of a lot of Alzheimer's research to try to catch up. So we don't even know the pattern of atrophy to distinguish it from Alzheimer's, right? It's frontal, it's temporal, but we don't actually know. So we will figure this out probably much sooner than we realize, but we can't right now. So soccer's bad if you're a prolific header.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
My dad worked in hotel restaurant management. So when I was growing up, he was at Northwestern in food service.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Boxing's bad if you take a lot of punches. There's also a dose response issue going on with that. So the reason why 97% of NFL players have it, because they've all played 20 more years. The fewer years you play, the less risk. So when we study the high school football players' brains, it's a minority of them, although it's still far more than I'm comfortable with.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It's repetitive hits, but not smaller. So actually a talking point I've been trying to drive into our team for the last year is that when you actually look at the sensor studies, what we find out is that the average concussion with linear acceleration is happening at about the 90th percentile. So let's say it's 100 Gs.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes. That's actually my first love of football, was going on Saturday mornings. He'd have to work, and I'd get to go sit with the football team while they had breakfast. Can you imagine, like, all the cereals being lined out? Like, it was like a dream.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
If that's what's happening, if you're a football player, you take 1,000 hits over a season, that means you took 100 hits harder than that concussion, that other 10%. I think that's what's causing a lot of the CT risk. It does take hard hits to cause physical damage to your brain. Well, that's comfortable. But most of them you can't feel because you don't have pain nerves in your brain.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And so when one neuron dies, you can't feel it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
There is a delay between when you get the damage, when you start having symptoms. And there's a lot of variables that contribute to that, including your overall brain health and aging and vascular disease. Cognitive reserve. So if you're smarter, you'll have delayed symptoms versus other people because your brain's wired better.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And so you can lose more neurons before you start showing functional problems. Right. So we don't actually know when the onset of symptoms is from CT, especially because everyone who gets CT has taken these thousands of hits and also has other types of brain damage in there, like frontal lobe white matter damage, that would be obvious for some of these symptoms.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
When you think about there's four pathological stages of CT, stage three and four, everybody's got some symptoms. The more you have, the worse off you are. Stage one and two, you're usually younger than 40. You also have white matter damage. You also have all these other things.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And we don't know if it's the CT lesions themselves that are contributing to everything or the white matter damage or these other types of brain damage that we see. So the onset of when CT starts affecting you is a little bit unknown.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
There were two NFL players and there were 45 brains in the world where they'd found CTE.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Not everybody's on that list that I call. Part of what I'm doing is trying to set up a system so they call us. Maybe to start with the first conversation, because it's on public record. These are all very sensitive, intimate conversations. The first call was the family of Andre Waters. So do you remember him from the Eagles, strong safety? No. Okay.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes, Dirty Waters, because he liked to lead with his head. Yeah. Oh, my God. So for my 85 Bears, in the late 80s, he was a nemesis. The Eagles were beating him. So Andre Waters takes his life. I just wrote the book, and no one cares about the book. And I'm trying to think, like, am I walking away and moving on with my life, or am I going to stick with this? And so he dies by suicide.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
He was still a Division II football coach. He was employed. There was nothing obvious on the surface. I called the medical examiner in Hillsborough County, Florida, and I said, hey, you should study his brain. And he's like, no, this is crazy. He'd never heard of this. But after multiple conversations over many weeks, because I was just trying to see if I was right.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I was like, can I convince this guy that I'm right? He said, well, it just so happens that I know Waters was buried two weeks ago, but we kept part of his brain. And I will give it to you. I'm now convinced that this is worthy of study. If you can get someone to study it and you get his family's permission. And I'm like, all right.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So I called the only doctor I knew at the time was the doctor from the concussion movie, Bennett Amalu. So I called him and I said, we study his brain. He said, yeah. I said, all right, here's his mother's phone number. She's 88. Give her a call. And he goes, no, he wouldn't make the call. There are other doctors we work with. No one wanted to make that call.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
She doesn't even realize that not all of them's buried. That's even a revelation itself. Yeah, what do you mean? Yeah, the medical examiner keeps tissue? Like, what? I just remember, like, I can't be a coward about this. And so I cold called his mother. Luckily, she didn't answer because I just had this vision that she would just, like, listen to me and, like, just drop dead.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And instead, his sister answered. I had written a script, and I'm like, hey, I'm just this guy you've never heard of, and I have no medical credentials, but I think his brain should be studied. First, his sister answers, and she listens. She goes... Hold on. I'm not the right person in the family. She got somebody else on, his niece. And his niece had some medical training.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And over a couple days, I convinced him to do it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. And then they started saying, well, you know, he was getting lost driving to the house he bought his mother to his own house. All these things weren't adding up for them. So luckily they were so nice about everything and so appreciative that I was like, all right, I can keep calling families. And so now I've called...
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
lot of families yeah how many nfl brains i guess college too you've gotten a lot of those our brain make now is 1600 brains we're getting close to 500 former nfl players what was actually most interesting is this is not widely known but since a certain date we've gotten one in four nfl players who've died okay and then you get the idea to start a pledge tell us about that
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I also realized I don't want to be calling people within 48 hours of their loved ones passing for the rest of my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I don't do this anymore. I still read the obituaries every morning out of habit. It's really terrible. It's a weird way to start your day.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, well, it does make you appreciate that you're alive that day. So yeah, so I started asking all the athletes I knew if they would pledge their brain, basically trying to create a culture of brain donation in America among famous athletes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So that they would realize that this stuff, it's important and it's happening. And so it started with people I all knew very well. And now we have 13,000 people who've pledged to donate their brain, probably more than we could ever take.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But I should pause here and ask. Part of my gimmick is I ask everybody. Now that you guys are part of an Alzheimer's study, have you also considered donating your brain? Oh, I'd be happy to.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
There's a huge concussion problem in cheerleading, especially the flyers. Or if you're the one catching, you were flying.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, well, my dad's family's Milwaukee. My mom's family's East Lansing. Oh! Oh, yeah, so deep Michigan. A lot of time in Kalamazoo growing up.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We've never seen CT in a cheerleader. We haven't had many brains donated. It's a new phenomenon, so we don't have 70-year-old cheerleaders who are doing this, which is a whole other issue. So it's something we've got to look into, but I'm hopeful it's not a huge problem.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Okay, tell me how to do that. I think it's donateyourbrain.org, but I'll send it to you, and I'll make sure I get that right.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Well, they tried to frame it as an American issue. So one of the tricks the NFL played is they brought in Australian doctors and British doctors who would say, this isn't in our country, so this is not real. So I went and started brain banks around the world. And so one of them was in Australia because that was the big bad guy. who was coming in and saying, this is fake, this is fake.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So we started a brain bank in 2018. And by 2020, we diagnosed the first cases in Australian rules football, the first case in rugby league. We now have a brain bank at Oxford. It's been seen now in rugby.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We don't know because we just started the rugby research. And are you aware that it's only been professional for a little while? No.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So rugby was like a gentleman's thing until turn of the century. Everyone's 180 pounds and they're sort of tackling. Hugging each other. But since then, they've all become 280-pound monster football players who train constantly. And they're fast as hell. The professionalization of rugby has made CT a huge problem. We still see it in the older guys.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
By comparison, we've looked at nearly 1,000 American football players' brains and we've looked at 50 rugby brains. But it was about half and it was how long you played. Your odds went up 14% per year you played. We just diagnosed the first New Zealand rugby case too at our brain bank at University of Auckland.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
When people asked me, do we end football? I said, no. I used to let people hit me in the head with folding chairs for a living, and I thought it was fun. And that wasn't nearly as dangerous as cops and firemen and people going to military service. If you want to do a dangerous job to support your family, great.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But let's not lie to you about the risks, and let's take reasonable precautions, and let's give you a voice to negotiate those precautions. Unions. That's why the NFL has gotten safer, is there's a union. So totally fine with the NFL continuing as a business and players having informed consent. But you're right.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The problem that we cannot reconcile is that everybody who played in the NFL made that choice to start playing as a child. And once you're on the train, we all know it's really hard to get off in a culture that says quitters are terrible.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes. Team sports are amazing for the connections and the physical health, but getting hit in the head, there's nothing good about that. And so the question becomes, when and how do you get into this? So they've done a lot of cool things, right? Like practices have changed. At the highest levels they have, but they have not gone all the way to the bottom.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
As an umbrella, our campaign to change the sports is called Stop Hitting Kids in the Head. Stop Hitting Kids in the Head.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
There's just no reason. Like, do you hit your daughters in the head? Not intentionally. You can probably count how many times they've ever been hit in the head. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Because it's really abnormal for kids to get hit in the head outside of sports. Even in old cases of abuse, if you hit your kid in the head a lot, they would stop showing up. So I think it's safe to say we're hitting children in the head more than we ever have in the history of time. Wow. A thousand hits to the head in a year is hard. So let's make reasonable reforms.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Driving is actually a really good analogy for this. I think it's sort of like, when do you start driving a car? Well, there's no age at when it magically starts becoming safe. And so in some states it's 16, some states it's 17. We've looked at data. We think about brain maturity. We think about all these things. And so we should think about that for all the sports.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We shouldn't repetitively hit kids in the head probably till 14. That is a good neuroscience perspective for brain development and a little bit uninformed consent. It sort of becomes more reasonable to start taking risks at that age.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But the idea that you take a five-year-old and put a five-pound helmet on him and have him get hit in the head two, three hundred times a year doesn't make sense to me. Because the risks are serious. You are actually increasing your risk of CT. And the rewards, you can get that from flag or some other sport and then have your period of time where you get to play the rough sport.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Football is not the problem. It's too much football. One season might be too much for some people, but usually it's double digits when you start getting into real risk of CTE. So start later and hit less.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
In 2015, we got U.S. soccer to say no heading until 11. So that's a thing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We asked for 14. We got 11. We'll still push for 14 as the data accrues.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But there's limits at 11, 12, and 13. Only supposed to do like 20 a week. But even 20 a week is 1,000 a year.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. We're actually saying, let's actually start counting it. Which we might be able to start doing with like AI and two-dimensional video. It's analogous to pitch counts. In Little League, if you're a coach, when your kid pitches, you have to count each one. And you have to send it to the league office because they were realizing it was destroying elbows.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. The response to that was pitch counts. So we count how many times kids throw a ball to protect their elbow. We do not count how many times any child is hit in the head in sports. That's wild. And now that soccer's, you know, you can play four seasons a year now. It used to be when high school was one.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We're not monitoring that. You could be getting more exposure in soccer than you are in football. My kids play soccer. They can't head now, but when they can start heading, my advice could be don't head.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Tell your coach, no, it's not for me. I'm going to play it off my chest. I'm going to control it better anyway. This whole idea that projectile coming at your head, you should knock back, it's very abnormal.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
That's true. HBO Real Sports did a nice piece with us. Yeah, that was part of that piece where they said the percent of kids on food stamps who were playing tackle football in Illinois was starting to dramatically go up, changed by 10% over only a few years because people with options started to realize my kid could do another sport, get the same benefits without the risk.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
There is a cultural conversation needs to be had because then that quickly goes to, but it's their way out.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It's a legitimate argument. It is, except for my next response is, but no one's getting recruited off their film when they were seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you could go flag into that. I think people aren't thinking about it deeply enough to realize that, yes, it can be a way out, but it doesn't become serious until high school.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I wish it was that good. I was good enough to play at Eastern Michigan and Northern Illinois. The Mac was interested. And luckily, my high school coach said, listen, if Harvard invites you to come, you don't turn them down. Right.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
One of the ways to look at that, there was a study by CDC showing in white communities, you're more likely to have both flag and tackle, and you have a choice. But in black communities, you only had tackle. You don't have the option. You're either playing tackle or you're not playing football at all, which in some cases might be worse for various reasons.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We also have to add when people say, yes, it's their way out because they're vulnerable, they need the pathway. It goes, yes, but you're talking about vulnerable people who already have problems. Let's layer on brain injury. That doesn't make any sense. Right. Brain injury can lead to these other problems down the road.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So don't take our most vulnerable people and lay around 5,000 hits to the head for that tiny chance they can turn into a living.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I appreciate all your research on this, too. I know it's a dive. I like it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
That's not a bad question. I have to wrestle with that every day. It waxes and wanes. Some days I'm like, yes, maybe not. My problem is it got very real a few years ago because one of my college roommates died. He was the Harvard football captain my senior year. We shared that room when we were all watching wrestling in 99. He played three years in the NFL.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
He was Tom Brady's housemate when they were rookies with the Patriots. And then didn't work out for injuries. And so then he went and got his MBA from Dartmouth. And then he ran the hedge fund. The perfect life. Married his high school sweetheart. Four kids. And then we found out he had a secret drinking problem. And it got so bad that they killed him.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Even after interventions and everyone becoming aware. So the perfect guy, the Superman, ended up drinking himself to death. He had stage two CT. We played, basically had the same sports experience. He played 11 years of football. I did my years of football and my wrestling. And the fact that more of those guys seem to have it than don't.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The guys who have my history, definitely more than 50% in our brain bank have had it. Then I just have to ask the question of how biased is our brain bank? Right now, I don't think people look at me and think I have it. Yeah, it doesn't seem it. Maybe only my wife. So I don't know.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Correct. I think there's a very good chance I have it. If I showed you my MRI from 20 years ago, that does not look normal. But I don't have symptoms, or at least ones that are overwhelming me.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
But that's part of my passion and race to find a cure. It's like, I still might have 10, 20 years before it clubs me over the head to find something that actually stop it so that I can just have what I have.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, but she's also got to be completely in denial to choose to marry me.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We had that talk, though. When I proposed, I was like, now, look, I don't know where this is going to go because this was born 10 years ago now. We had even less knowledge. And I'm like, I might have this. I might lose my mind. Chris Benoit thing, it happened a couple years prior. Yeah. It's like, I don't know where I'm going to be at 40. Now, past that, I don't know where I'm going to be at 50.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So we're starting to look into that. CT has been seen in some military people who did not play sports, but were like artillery or special forces, a lot of explosions. So it can happen. It's much more rare than football, but it's definitely there. We are looking to more first responders. We have gotten some firemen and police who've had a lot of concussions, but I don't think we have a case yet.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So hopefully it's not as bad. We actually seen people on the autism spectrum just banging their heads all the time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, of course. But it is probably out there. I'm hoping it's rare. There are some jobs where you're getting hit in the head quite a bit, but it's not anywhere near boxing and football.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
That's a great point. Your brain's not as protected against those hits when you're young. The sheath around your axons, this type of cell that grows there, isn't there when you're young. And so those stretches are worse. But we have diagnosed a stuntman with CTE. He was also a football player.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Be happy to help your friend if you want to connect us.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. And the studies have shown that with genetic studies for Alzheimer's, some people respond of, OK, I'm going to use this and take the time I have and really enjoy it. Other people can't handle it. And it just becomes their obsessive thought that, oh, my God, I'm going to get this.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Right. And sometimes we do a little bit of selective framing where we say for something like that, transition can be really hard from careers. And so a lot of guys go through this depression. Actually, let's go see this doctor to try to help figure it out. They'll do the cognitive test. They'll give us a window into actually could see part of this.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
No, luckily I got big. So I was a jock and I was a nerd. I don't want to go that deep. I had a high opinion of myself in high school.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes, thank you for asking. Go to concussionfoundation.org or find us on social medias. This is one of the more neglected areas of research. And so we are always looking for support. We're always looking for brain donors. Thank you both so much for your brain and people participating in clinical studies. You can also be an advocate in your community to try to keep your kids safe.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So we have various programs you can get involved with, but the key is get involved. The sad thing is CT should not exist. Almost all of it is voluntary and those choices start as children and we can change this culture. And at the meantime, we have to dramatically accelerate research so that we have cures for all the people we grew up watching are now people who are friends.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The upper brass definitely can't stand in the mirror. They don't give me access to the players. So it is hard. And then when you are a player, most of them I'm finding live in a bubble where they don't even appreciate what we're trying to do. Because it's really hard to go do your job when you're thinking about your brain.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And so the ones I know through like the executive committee who are actually in those meetings, they do love us. I spent time with one of them yesterday. Those guys are great. The only place this really happens is actually when I go back to WWE. The wrestlers really appreciate how much safer wrestling is now.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Triple H was on our board for six years and he really gets it. And so it's amazing now that he's in charge, the influence that has over the whole safety. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The highest honors I remember looking in my high school was all women and me. It was like 30 women and me. That was weird. So I think it was just accepted that I was there. I did get that at Harvard, though.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So I do remember football shows up two weeks early as practice, and then the rest of the students show up, and we're in the dining hall, and we're last, because we came from practice with boisterous, and I hear somebody say, a couple people in front of me, oh, I thought we left those guys behind in high school.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It was the best. You're just around the most motivated, talented people you can imagine, and so it's just infectious.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yes, at that point, we were 1AA, and that was part of a big turnaround to the Harvard program. Now they're one of the best... perennially, and now it's called FCS.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
They totally screwed up football. So now it's Football Bowl Series, FBS, and Football Championship Series, FCS. It's the old 1AA. There's a tournament at the end versus bowl games.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I started sociology because my perception was I was trying to figure out what was important in the world and sort of strip down what I was told was important growing up outside Chicago versus what it really is, what do I really care about, what are my values.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I didn't know how to deal with classrooms. What honors program? Right, that's true.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Taking a helicopter down to DuPort, Rhode Island for the weekend to the mansion. The first time you're asked, where do you summer?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
You never forget that feeling. You don't know how to answer it, then they pity you.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So I took a real job out of Harvard, life sciences consulting, working for pharma, biotech companies, drug development stuff. Intellectually challenging, but not what I was looking for. I was working for them during senior year, making side money, and we would talk wrestling. I became a really big fan that year.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It wasn't allowed in my house, so I had two sisters, and I was the only boy, so my mom could control that you're not watching wrestling. Okay. I'd go to the cousins, I'd catch it, or the cartoons, so I knew a little bit. But it wasn't a childhood thing. But summer of 99, I lived with five guys in like a two-bedroom, one-bath for football.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And we watched Monday Night Raw and SmackDown, and I got hooked because it was like The Rock and Stone Cold.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Golden age. Yeah, it was amazing. So a lunch conversation says, you know, if you don't get drafted in the NFL, because I was a distant prospect, I think you'd make a great wrestler. Would you ever try that? He knew people because he'd consulted, I think, when Vern Gagne was trying to sell the AWA out of Minnesota, deep cut. He's like, all right, if you don't get drafted, let me know.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
If you don't get drafted, he said, I'll make a call. He calls Jerry Jarrett, who ran the Memphis Territory, who calls J.J. Dillon, who runs talent for WCW, and they say, hey, we've got this 6'5 Harvard guy I think would be good.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And so suddenly I've got a plane ticket before I even graduated to Atlanta to the power plant where Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff just beats me up for a day. Just to train you? Like a tryout.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It's like a built-in story. Yes, although I didn't realize at the beginning I was only going to be a heel if they found out I went to Harvard. That's where the reality show part comes in. Then the test was they would just make you run the ropes till your side's bleeding. They would just see if you're tough. It wasn't even like performance or anything. And I passed it. I needed shoulder surgery.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
They're like, six months when you're healthy, give us a call.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Oh, okay. I was getting shots while I was doing my training. Another thing, I've had three shoulder surgeries.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
So WCW is going out of business by the time I'm healthy. The hiring freeze and Ted Turner and all that thing falls apart. So I'm working part-time in this consulting firm. I find Killer Kowalski's wrestling school. I'm going to go in old school. I'm going nights and weekends. So then WWE and MTV partnered to create Tough Enough to sort of bring in the MTV crowd to WWE.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And it was just after Real World Season 3. But it's hot. And Survivor's hot. This is so early in reality show that we had no last names in the show. 13 people live in a house, train with WWE for 13 weeks. Oh, my God. and have their whole life filmed. But old school, 24 hours surveillance cameras.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
The prize was a three-year contract, and so everyone sort of knew if you're spending your time not focused on the business.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
I would have found time. As people smartened up the reality show, they might have realized it would be good for TV for them to do that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
We had no leverage, so I think it was like a $100,000, $150,000 a year deal or something. Okay, so $30,000 to $50,000 a year. A year. Per year.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And the only reason why, now that we look back, is because the show was meant to bring in the wrestling crowd. And so third week of the show, there's two Chris's on the show. They can't differentiate us. And so they tell everyone, start calling him Chris Harvard. Because everyone just called me Harvard. Oh, shit. Because I was the only Harvard guy they'd ever met.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And I didn't realize that that would be your heel forever.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah. But I was the bad guy in the show. They added me to be a total dick. Oh, villain. So I didn't get that kind of reaction. It was more like, oh, that guy's here.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
Yeah, thank God. I haven't been in a lot of real fights. So yeah, I went and worked the wrestling scene, went back to the old job. And then I get a call like, all right, come do a tryout match around the WrestleMania stuff in Toronto. And so I go work some matches and they're like, all right, yeah, move to Cincinnati. You're going into the minor leagues. So I got the contract.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
And then two months into that, they're like, all right, you're going on the Monday Night Raw. And I'm like, okay, I've only had 30 matches in my life, but I'm ready. Yeah. Were you ready? You weren't ready. Well, I mean, I survived.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It's a dance. Yeah, but it was multiple hits over time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Chris Nowinski (on CTE)
It was night and day. Football is way worse. Oh, okay. Because football, you're actually colliding. In wrestling, you're trying not to hurt anybody. Right. But I was also there at the time where we're as safe as we are today. And so it was real chair shots to the head. And don't put your hand up anymore. You're a coward. That sounds weird.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Adam Scott Returns
rushed to the hospital you probably want to know if she's still alive i will tell you next week i have all those on my phone as well i want to play one of your responses which is so good you can't imagine how much pleasure it gives me to have the both of you over a barrel like this i may as well tell you now that the entire season was created just to frustrate and destroy the both
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So I sit down on the front porch steps and with my right hand, put pressure on the wrist. My wife comes out with 911 on the phone. They're telling her to get clean rag or clean shirt or something and just apply pressure. And an ambulance is on its way. I'm bleeding through these rags like no one's business.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I'm lightheaded, pale, dizzy. I actually got the 911 call from the county. Oh, wow. My wife hasn't had the heart to listen to it yet. I wasn't really there. I was kind of in another space. So it was kind of fun for me to listen to. And at one point, the dispatcher asked her how bad I'm bleeding. And she said, it's dripping all over the porch. It's in bad shape.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Do they suggest a tourniquet at any point? They didn't. They were just saying direct pressure. Somehow I didn't pass out. But the paramedics arrive and they quickly see that things aren't great. They're able to stem the bleeding a bit more. They wrap it up with gauze, get me loaded into the ambulance, and off we go to the hospital. It's probably about a 20-minute drive to the hospital.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
The paramedic calls ahead to the ER just to kind of let them know what to expect. I'm still conscious. And then about five minutes before we get to the hospital, both the EMT and I happen to look down and the gauze is now completely red and it's dripping onto the floor of the ambulance.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Without missing a beat, she puts kind of one thumb on my pressure point on the bend of my elbow with the other hand, opens up a cabinet, grabs a tourniquet, rips it open with her teeth, puts it around my arm, cinches it tight. And that somewhat stopped at least the dripping. We get to the ER. We get into the triage room. And within seconds, 20 medical professionals are there. I'm crying.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I'm thinking, yeah, I'm in a lot better shape now because I'm at least at the hospital. But this is scary stuff. They strap my arm down to a board, wrist side up, start spraying it with saline. And then the next thing you know, I'm out. That was the last thing that I remember. I woke up hours later in a recovery room, still super groggy.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I woke enough basically to say hi to my wife and then crashed again. And then the next thing I knew, I woke up at three in the morning in my hospital room and my hand is just bandaged from fingertip to elbow. But I could see that I had all my extremities, which was pretty, pretty cool.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So one of the benefits of living in Northern Virginia is we have an amazing medical system. So it's a level one trauma, which I just learned about on the nurses. You do. We're all learning at the same speed.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So they did have all the necessary surgeons there to perform immediate surgery. I was discharged later that afternoon. I was in crazy heavy medicine for several weeks. I had hand physical therapy for months, then some really nasty scars and a little loss of motion in my thumb.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So basically what I did is when I pushed up on the globe, obviously it shattered, but I was pushing pretty hard and I cut my artery long way.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Exactly. So I cut my artery, several tendons and nerves. Monica, I actually sent you guys a couple of pictures. Hopefully Rob has them up.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
A slight bit of humor to the whole situation. I found out later that after I left in the ambulance and before my wife and daughter drove to the hospital, my wife took the garden hose and hosed on the front porch because there was just blood everywhere.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And it's probably best because when she got home from the hospital late that night after seeing me in recovery, there was an Amazon package on the front porch. And I could only imagine what the poor Amazon delivery driver would have thought if they saw it. Would they have taken a picture of it or they would have been like, customer not available. It just went on their way.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Like HIPAA? First reporters, like school teachers.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Chris, you're so smart. What line of work are you in? I am a full-time stay-at-home dad.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I left the workforce about a year and a half ago, and I love it. Girl, Dad, 13 and 15, it's what works for our family, so I couldn't be happier. And I have an endless list of projects and things to do.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
We have some new rules in our house about the projects I'm allowed to do when no one is home. And if I get up on a ladder, I need to let someone else be there. If my wife hadn't arrived home just before it happened, I'm confident in saying that I wouldn't be here today. There's no way that I could have grabbed my phone and called 911. I just wasn't in this state.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And obviously, since there was such significant bleeding, I would have probably passed out pretty quickly.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And you're thinking, damn it, I can get my rib replaced. But aftermarket parts are so hard to find for this car. What am I going to do?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Absolutely. It was a learning opportunity for sure because I've cut corners in the past and skated through and this time I cut a corner and it didn't end nicely at all, but at least I'm still here.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Well, it's like cut off your nose to spite your face type of thing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Technically, my husband was supposed to be telling the story. He was the one who experienced it. I will admit I was the catalyst.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I am just the designer and he is the planner, which after you hear the story, that is now shifted. I am now both. Okay. We moved into our house in 2019 and we're in a townhouse row. So we're like the first six and then the entire complex is behind us. I'm a cleaner. I hate baseboards. The old schooled ones with the grooves, I don't want to get in there. I wanted a more modern block.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Make it nice and simple for me. So we removed... all the old crappy baseboards. It's a bit of an investment to obviously put back into your home. So we started off very small. I'm like, let's just do the bathrooms and then we'll eventually get to the rest of it. So I tasked my husband with the downstairs bathroom as I'm away at work. And this bathroom shares a wall with our hot water Okay.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So my husband starts nailing the baseboard to the bottom. Prior to this, he does turn off the water that's by the toilet tanks. He's making his way around, and now he gets to the wall that shared the closet hot water tank. Pierces the wall.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Yeah. Water starts to come out of the wall, like pressurized water. He's immediately feet up. It's quite a small space that he could at least put some pressure on it. He's like, I turned off the water. I don't get why this is happening. He calls me while I'm at work and he's like, you need to come home. Something's gone wrong. And I'm like, you dropped me off at work this morning.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
We have one vehicle. I'm sorry. You're on your own.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Exactly. So thankfully, our neighbor, he has the key to our six row utility closet goes to turn off the water. And he's like, why isn't the water stopping? We get a plumber out and they come to turn off the main water to our six houses that we can't get to. Is water still gushing out? It stopped at this point.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
It wasn't our water tank that he hit. So the water's just off for the night. It's 5 p.m. at this point. Our six houses, nobody has water. Oh, I'd be so pissed.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Yeah. Yeah. Husband comes to pick me up from work. I'm like, we need to give them a jug of water and a little like gift card. We've literally just met these people.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
We've got somebody coming in the next day. Plumber comes, fixes it. They go to turn the main water back on and it's still pressurized. He goes, we have to turn off the main water again. And we're like, okay, great. He goes to turn it off and he breaks the valve.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So now we have to call the city to get them to turn off the water to all 65 homes behind us.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Usually 24, 72 hours in advance gives you notice that they're turning off water. It was immediate. Because Trav is trying to figure this out with the plumber who just broke the valve, he didn't contact Strata for like three hours after this happened. So they're getting phone calls, emails. What the heck's happening? Why is our water turned off?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
What we thought was going to be, I think, maybe 12 hours without water was close to like 20 hours without water. So then the city comes out the next day. They fix it. So we're like, whew, great. Everybody gets their water back on. Then we get another plumber to come back in.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
He actually tells us that the way our house was originally built, they did not put that main water line buried far enough down in the ground. So if he would have punctured our water line, we would have been able to turn it off, fix it. He would have been able to put it on, no problem. But because it wasn't buried enough in the cement, he hit the whole... The water main. Exactly.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And so we still do not have baseboard to this day. We've been in this house for five years because I'm just traumatized. I don't want to puncture anything.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Oh, we had to like jackhammer, pull it out, dry it out. It was like two days of that plumber coming in and out of our house.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Bless my husband. I feel like he wants to be handy. He's techie. That's his domain. I'm like, you stay there.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I am just so, so excited to hear some of these other ones. Oh, wow.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
That is wild. But yeah, that is our first experience in our home.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I feel like we were laughing about it in the moment because how do you not? I just couldn't believe that it literally went from a tiny hole to like now we have to call the city.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I have to give a shout out to my bestie, Cora, who also listens. And my sisters, they all love you. Dax, I do have to give a special. My one sister, she's just like, please tell him I love him.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
She will love that. You guys are such a great example of what a friendship is. You guys just hold space for each other, even when you don't agree. Thank you for demonstrating that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
That's very kind. Monica, your eye rolls. Can't help it. I've also been told that mine are pretty epic, so I'm always just like, yeah, girl, you get it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Thank you. It was great meeting you guys.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Do you want to sing a tune or something? I'm going to have a theme song. Oh. Okay, great.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I agree. Welcome to my closet. Thank you. Big fan of the cure. So I had to represent. Me too. Robert Smith? Indeed.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
And that's kind of his draw. There was an interesting thing when they were inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Trent Reznor said, Robert Smith has curated this. Robert Smith world that we can go and become whenever we want, whenever we feel a little left out or alone. And that's exactly what it represents. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I'm a really big fan of their new album, Songs of a Lost World. Highly recommend it. It's their first album in, I think, eight years. He's getting older and some of his loved ones are past. And, you know, he's looking at mortality like we all are.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
You can tell a Cure fan miles away, if not the get up, at least just they have this Bon Ami about them.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
That was a great word. Yeah. It's an SAT word for sure.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Where are you at? I am in Northern Virginia, just outside of D.C., but I have to say originally from Michigan. Ann Arbor. The wife is from the Thumb, proper farm country. So we met in Michigan and that was 20 some odd years ago. This is why he's so interesting and knowledgeable. Monica, and I'm not going to leave you out. I've been to the Atlanta airport.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I do. So August 2019, I wanted to put up a camera on our front porch to see the comings and goings of Amazon Delivered Drivers and all that good stuff. And our house has a really beautiful wraparound front porch with 10-foot ceilings and like a ceiling fan. And we have a porch swing and a good place to hang out when it's not stiflingly hot.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
But I needed to get power over to where I was putting in the camera. And I figured I would just tap right into where the junction box is for the fan. So I took the fan down. One thing to note at this point, I'm home alone. My wife and younger daughter are out running errands. My older daughter is in North Carolina with her friend and their family. At home, it's just me and the dog.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So I get my ladder out, take the fan down, put it on the ground.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Of course. You're preempting something stupid that I would do, but that's for another time. Okay, okay. Run the Romex over, put the new plug in, put a GFI plug in because it's outdoors. Tested it. So now I just needed to put the fan actually back up. So I grabbed the fan and I climbed up the ladder. Keymite's a 10-foot ladder.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So for some reason, I didn't think or want to take the four minutes to remove the fan blades or the undermount light or anything like that. I have the top of the neck of the fan motor in my right hand. And you know, the fan blades are all banging around my body and hitting the ladder. And I just need to get the fan motor clipped into the little holder and then I can let go of it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
Then it's kind of in place. But the junction box is a bit more full because it's got a separate piece of Romax. It's got some wire nuts. So I can't quite get it into place. So I figured, oh, I'm just going to use my left hand to help push it in a little. However, at the bottom of the fan, there's light bulbs and a nice glass dome. Again, which I didn't take off.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
So I push my left hand on that glass dome, give it a heave, and my left hand smashes through the glass dome with a few light bulbs, slicing open my wrist.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: DIY Disaster
I scream out in pain. I'm shocked you didn't fall off the ladder at this point. I can only kind of remember... climbing down the ladder. Thankfully, my wife and younger daughter had gotten home not three minutes beforehand. They were still putting away groceries in the kitchen. So I flung open the door and just yelled, call 911.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
I'm in Charleston, South Carolina.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
I've got two fun facts, though, for Dax real quick, if we have time. Yeah, we do. Dax, you and I have the same birthday, January 2nd. J2C, congratulations. Every time you say it, I'm like, yep, let's go, J2C. And we both have kids named Lincoln. Oh, you have a boy or a girl? A boy named Lincoln. Yeah, he's nine. Before I was a fan of the show and everything. Sweet. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
I doubt I can. Yeah, I need a good look so I can get my matching one, too.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
Okay, hit us with the first responder story. It was 2018. I worked EMS from 2015 to 2021. So a little bit about the geographics of my county. The lower half is lots of cities, high population. The upper half is very country, very rural. Everything is far apart. So we've already got an extended ETA.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
We get dispatched to a motor vehicle accident, which is a very common call, you know, neck and back pain type of stuff. We don't get very many details on this call. We're just going in blind. When we get there, the first thing we see is a car with very heavy damage. It's in a ditch next to a tree line, and it's got smoke coming out, glass broken everywhere. I mean, it looks like a movie set.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
Police are already there? No, so that's the weird thing. We show up, there's nobody there. I mean, it's dead silent. But the weirdest part is that there's no caller. Typically, there's at least the caller. I guess this was just a passerby. When I say it's dead silent, I mean, you can hear the squirrels in the tree line. That's about it. We go up to the vehicle expecting to find a patient.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
We don't see anyone. We're looking around. I'm looking down the street. I'm looking under the car. I'm looking in the car. We're just trying to find this person because they could obviously be very, very hurt. Me and my partner are very confused. We can't find this guy. So we're asking dispatch for additional information. And I keep hearing these damn squirrels in the tree. Oh, no.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
I look up and 15 feet in the air, I see my patient being suspended. by two tiny ranches.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
Oh my God. And he's out cold, it seems. I immediately look at my partner and I say, oh fuck, he's dead.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
Which is not very professional, but that's what happens.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
Immediately, we're like, what are we going to do? Luckily, fire shows up two minutes later. They're asking where the patient is. And we just kind of point up. Now, there's no protocol for getting a guy out of a tree. We just reach for the largest ladder on the truck, lean it up against the tree. I think these ladders are made for like one guy, maybe two guys at a time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
So weight distribution was kind of iffy. But we ended up creating like a human pyramid under the ladder with all the guys we could while me and my partner climbed up there. with our gear. How come they didn't send the firefighter up? It feels like that's their domain. I volunteered. I wanted to be up there. Okay, okay, okay. So I went up there and we packaged him as best we could.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
We lifted his legs and we slid a backboard under his belly between his belly and the branches. We had to slide him face down onto the backboard, get a collar on him as best we could, strap him in, and then basically create a human chain to slide him down the ladder.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
And keep in mind, he's also very injured. He's hardly breathing at this point. So when we do finally get out there and get him looked at, we can obviously smell the booze he had been drinking and driving. We get him down, we get him onto the stretcher, and then we start our assessment and everything. We immediately call for a helicopter, a medivac, because again, we're out in the country.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
It's about 25, 30 minutes to the nearest trauma center. We get fired to set up an LZ landing zone. His breathing started declining very drastically. So we have what's called a rapid sequence intubation, an RSI intubation. I've only assisted in maybe three RSI's in the five years that I was working there. It's very invasive.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
Basically, what we do is we give them a paralytic and a sedative and we put them in a medically induced coma. We stop their breathing and we have to intubate them. This has got to be a hard call to make. Yeah, it's not done lightly, but when we do it, we do it right. So we get him intubated. We drive him to the LZ. The helicopter's waiting for us. And then we turn him over to the flight team.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
They take their report. And of course, he's transported to the nearest trauma facility. As far as his injuries afterwards, he ended up having a massive brain bleed. When we showed up, I didn't see a big hole in the windshield. I think he was ejected out of the driver's side window.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
I think he was probably less injured because he was drunk. They say that when you're drunk, your body's more relaxed. Not telling anyone to go drunk driving.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
And you stopped doing it though? Yeah, I went into business for myself in 2021. So now I'm self-employed and that allows a lot of freedom for me to do Twitch. I probably stream about 80 hours a month.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
Much like you, I feel like I have a hero complex. I want to get in there when I want to pull over. But luckily, my wife is reasonable and says, listen, you can see them. They're good. No heroes needed. Oh, wow.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: First Responder
I stream video games on Twitch. We got kind of a breakfast theme going on because my name is Breakfast Bot on there. What is it, Breakfast Bot? Breakfast Bot, B-O-D. Oh, Breakfast Bot.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Hello. Hi, Dax and Monica. How are you?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Yeah. Where are you? I am an hour south of Louisville, Kentucky.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
I'm from Tacoma, Washington, so I had to learn to say it right.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Great, cool. Yeah. So this takes place back near Tacoma, Seattle area in Washington in 2008. My senior year of high school, I started dating a girl who I had known. We went to junior high, high school together. She was on the high school cheer team, but she was also in theater.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Things are going great. We start dating about halfway through senior year. So when we start dating, she says, just so you know, I am saving myself for marriage. Totally okay with that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Well, I wasn't like stoked about it. You loved her.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Yeah, and other things were happening. Graduation, we, at this point, were in love. And she says, I want you to be my first time. I was like, okay. Well, I'm not ready to get married. And she's like, no, no, no. I don't want to wait anymore. So we actually do have a couple legitimate conversations about it. And then I end up taking her virginity. It's a pretty great summer for both of us.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
And I move into an apartment with a couple friends and she just kind of starts coming around unannounced like she lives there. And my friends were like, hey, it's not really OK. So I had a talk with her. And then over the course of two or three months of fall and into winter, she starts getting more clingy.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
She starts inviting herself to guys days like, hey, we're going skateboarding or we're going up to Seattle to go see a movie. She's like, great. When are we leaving? I'm like, no, this is a guy's thing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
And she's like, yeah, but I'm coming with you guys. And I'm like, no, that's not how it works. It just progressively gets worse. Her behavior becomes kind of erratic. I feel really bad. The first thing on my mind is I'm starting to fall out of love with this girl because it's not the girl that I fell in love with. She's acting differently. And then of course, I also do feel bad.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Like I did take this person's virginity and that's very, very sacred to her. You
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
can't take that on you asked so i end up breaking up with her i do it not the best way i don't text her but i don't do it in person i call her because i knew it's going to be a huge thing so i call her and i'm just like hey like this isn't working out i love you but i'm not in love with you and of course first thing out of her mouth is you're not breaking up with me you took my virginity oh fuck
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Yeah, like, oh, OK, well, this is tricky. I don't know what to do in this situation.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
I'm 18. I don't really know how to navigate these kinds of situations. I am not an adult yet. So I basically end up just saying we can talk about this. But like, I think I want to break up. And so a couple of days later, she comes over. It's a Friday night and we're having a party because we're 18. So there are people in the house. She's like, can we please go in your room and talk?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
So we go into my bedroom and we start talking and she's like, so what's this about wanting to take a break? And I was like, no, I want to break up.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
And then she just says like, no, I don't think you can do that. Is that an option? Then I'm like, I'm really sorry. This does suck. This isn't going to work out. So she does some begging and pleading. And I, of course, feel horrible, but just stand my ground. And then she's got a few things in my room. So she gathers her things. And she's obviously stomping around my room and is huffing.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
And then she walks out of the room and slams the bedroom door. And then she opens the door back up and puts her hands on her hips. And she goes, by the way, I'm pregnant. Stop. No, no. Okay.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
So I didn't handle that well. And I, at this point was like 98% sure she's lying because she's angry. So I just do the dumb 18 year old boy thing of like, Oh, okay. You're pregnant. Yeah. I kind of make fun of her. Monica, I'm sorry. I know it's not a good look. Monica, I'm sorry.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
What my egos allow me to remember is this is the first mistake I make is poking at her in a very vulnerable moment, even though like you're using this lie as a weapon.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
She leaves. She calls me a hundred times over like a week. I don't answer. She sends me a text and says, I need you to meet me at store. And I want us to buy some pregnancy tests. And so I'm like, oh, okay. Now I'm kind of scared. Like, okay, maybe she is serious.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
So she comes over in the middle of the day and we have a couple that we're friends with that are there to mediate the tension. And I'm like, I don't want to be alone with her. We go in the bathroom and we take the tests. It's negative.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
We take a second and then a third one. They're all three negative. And I'm like jumping for joy. I'm 18. I make $250 a week. You're living with 12 dudes. Yeah. And I'm like, yes, this is awesome. She's like in tears. And I'm like, this is a good thing. We broke up. You're not pregnant. And then she goes, well, I just thought if I actually was pregnant that we could be together. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
And I'm like, no, that's not how it works.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
For one, this imaginary child that you lied about. Oh, my God. We would have raised them separately. I'm not going to be with you regardless.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
So you did lie about the pregnancy. And she said, yes. And then I'm like, OK, please gather your things and leave. And I don't want to speak to you anymore. So she leaves. My friend and I have the decency to wait till she's out of the apartment to high five.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
This is a huge relief, even though I knew it was a lie. Just the idea that it's a possibility is terrifying. She starts telling everybody that she miscarried and that that's why she wasn't pregnant. So she's telling everyone in the friend group that, like, the stress of our breakup and blah, blah, blah. No one believes her.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
I don't look good in this situation, even though I really haven't done anything wrong.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
We don't talk. It's the next summer. So, like, nine months goes by. I have some friends who rented a house on the lake. We're partying. I go to bed early. What do you do in the 2000s? You take someone's phone and you make prank calls.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
So... I have not texted her. I've not called her. She's not reached out to me. One of the people they prank called in my phone was my ex.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
They just sent her some texts and said some things on voicemail. She didn't answer the phone. I had no idea that this had happened. Two days later, there's a sheriff knocking at my door to give me papers for a restraining order. Oh, my God.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
I have to go to a hearing and I have to explain, like, this is what's going on. I don't have to go to the hearing, but if I don't go, she automatically gets the restraining order, I guess, if I don't show up to defend myself. I'm 19 now. This is how dumb I am. I think a restraining order is like a physical thing. Like, I can't be in her physical realm. So I text her and go like, what's the deal?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Why... Did you get a restraining order against me? And now at this point, I figured out like what happened with the prank calls. A restraining order, there's zero contact. So I screw up not knowing that you can't text the person and be like, can we be reasonable? I thought it's like, you know, if I go to a coffee shop and she's there, I have to leave.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
I would have thought that probably. Yeah. So I get a fine. I have to go to a court date now. Because of the restraining order. Yeah, because I violated the restraining order. So I have to go in front of a judge and say, this is what happened. And he's like, why would you text her? And I'm like, I don't know. You don't have a lawyer. I'm just like, sorry, sir.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
Yeah, pretty much. Just skateboarding jeans that don't have holes in them. He basically is just like, she's allowed to have this. You could have gone to the hearing and fought this. I understand your position because I had proof. I got the phone company involved with call logs. I mean, I told him the whole story. I just told you guys.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
You can tell he's just sitting there going like, wow, she's something. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
But you did violate a restraining order. So you have to pay the court fee. You have to pay this fine. And this is like a strike one kind of thing because I don't have a record. And so I'm just like, wow, I'm just like a creep who has a restraining order from an ex-girlfriend. That sucks.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Ex
It's not great. Yeah, I mean, no lesson to be learned other than just, I guess, maybe don't take people's virginity.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
I literally ran down to the mailbox like five seconds before to see. I was like, maybe it came today.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
It's very nice. I just ripped it open and threw it on. And then it was like, this is nice. Like it's thick. And this is my first time actually having one because I have always missed it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
I set multiple reminders. And it was actually really funny because I always listen to everything in order. I never skip ahead.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
And so I never listened to the fact check before the episode.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
But I had just finished therapy. And I was like, I need some time to decompress before I come and join the family some more.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
And I'm not ready to start this episode. I'm going to go to the fact check. And that is when you guys announced like that the next day was when the orders were going up.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
I never would have been able to get the sweater because I wouldn't have listened to that part yet. Oh, exciting. So I set all the alarms and it was at noon and I had a work meeting starting at that time and it didn't matter. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
I don't have words, though, to explain. It's like, and you tried and you failed.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Armchair Anonymous: Embarrassingly Caught
And you admitted that you just couldn't. And it's like that. Okay, we'll take it. Keep it up, guys.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I got to underscore this because, you see, OpenAI was really kind of – they were fluffing their feathers about they're the ones with the special sauce that Anthropic hadn't yet copied. They had this reasoning model that you could charge $200 a month for. Right? I mean, Meta is working on one. They've released papers for a Lama-based reasoning model.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Google also has released an early prototype for a reasoning model. But OpenAI has shipped it. And now DeepSeek just shipped one as well. So it kind of deflates the OpenAI hype in multiple different ways, which I think is something we're just going to have to watch play out. It's hard to make a call on that.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Well, it seems that seems clear now. The question before was, was the idea was, is what we do all this spend now. So we grab the land. So we own the beach and build out the services. Yes. Which is why you saw Sam also play out, which is you and I talked about extensively his moat strategy by scaring the crap out of the White House and leaders around the world.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
See, I don't think you're quite there all the way yet. And I think – The U.S. tech companies and the federal government need to get their head around this. What happened yesterday, the $600 billion that was lost, can be put squarely on this moat-building effort and the Biden White House executive orders around NVIDIA chips.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
36% were uncertainty around licensing changes, and 33% were restrictive Oracle policies. But 88% of companies are considering leaving Oracle Java. They also cite cloud expenses for their Java workloads as being more expensive than other types of workloads. You think this is legit? I don't know why. It doesn't ring true to me for some reason.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Sam fearmongered his way into the White House, scared everybody about the powers of AI. They coaxed the White House into taking action before Congress because Congress is too slow. Biden watched a movie and supposedly saw AI fighter jets and got scared about this is out there. You can search it. He watched the latest Top Gun movie. Seriously? Go search.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Biden watches Top Gun movie and then signs executive order banning H-100s from going to China. That's their story. That forced these China builders with these kind of constraints where they had to go to optimize. They had to work with what they could get access to, like the H800s.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
China was forced, these developers in China were forced to bypass CUDA to squeeze even more efficiency out of this thing. So now they're kind of even getting around to some of NVIDIA's moat. It forced them to come up with a cheaper way to train this thing. And then two days after Trump signs his new White House EO on AI, China drops DeepSeek version 3R1. And NVIDIA's stock drops $600 billion.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I think you can draw a straight line between our attempt to regulate software development and safety and technology and chips from the White House... to this moment where the market is shocked that this was possible because a lot of it was backed up by two arrogant factors and assumptions made in the United States. One, there was an, yeah.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
One, I think we have had an arrogance and assumption that China's development capabilities do not match our own in this area. Ridiculous. Two, Two, I think there was a false sense of security that this stupid EO that banned H100s from going to China was going to strain them and prevent them from innovating.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Because we've always been locked in on the mindset that you've got to build more and spend more. And NVIDIA has been happy to scale up and create bigger and better chips. So we never had to try to make it work on smaller chips. worst chips, slower chips. They were always there providing us the next chip, providing that next pump for the stock market.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And we tried to regulate the entire thing from the top down. And what we got is DeepSeek, version 3, and $600 billion shaved off NVIDIA.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
especially because a lot of what, you know, makes DeepSeek hum here is inference. And NVIDIA's focused so much on building chips for training. Now, they do, of course, have inference chips, but you know who else who has inference chips for cheap is your MacBook M4. Oh, and by the way, because it's shared memory model, it has access to more RAM than the NVIDIA inference chips do.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Everybody was laughing that Apple stock didn't go down yesterday with the crash because Apple's AI is so bad It's not even in the in the AI crash I think the actual reality is is the market was shifting to the reality that local cheap AI is possible and inference chips like the neural processors with a shared memory system between the GPU the disk and the MPU are actually going to be extremely competitive in this environment to the point that
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I mean, like, you can be really discontent with something in the enterprise and continue to use it for a decade.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
that I can run DeepSeek version 3 on my M1 Macs. It's kind of slow, but I can do it. No, it flies on my M2, granted I have stupid RAM, but yeah.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I mean, in the near term, it does seem like there's going to have to be some reconsideration of what's the demand for NVIDIA, although I think they're rebounding. It does feel like a bit of a shakeup.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, people make their entire infrastructure purchasing decisions around this software.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Probably. Now, you know, Mike, I think what happens, my bet would be, is that Microsoft is already going to spend 80 bill on data center infrastructure. SoftBank.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I know. Yep. And so is SoftBank. So is Oracle. And, you know, if OpenAI can afford to, they will too. Will it equal 500 bill total? Probably not. But the money comes from the companies, not from the federal government. So we'll see how far they get. Which is like the one good thing about this program. It's Stargate.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
So the tech CEOs reacted to DeepSeek and Satche said, Yvon's paradox strikes again. As AI gets more efficient and accessible, we will see its use skyrocket, turning it into a commodity we just can't get enough of.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
So the Yvon's or however you say it, this paradox in economics occurs when a technological advancement makes a resource more efficient to use, thereby reducing the amount needed for a single application. However, Yeah, okay. Sam Altman responded about DeepSeek saying, DeepSeek's R1 is an impressive model, particularly around what they're able to deliver for the price.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
We will obviously deliver much better models, and also it's legit invigorating to have a new competitor. We will pull up some releases.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I also like the term, we will pull up some releases, which I believe is a remix of Satya Nadella's term when Microsoft was down. And what they're doing is basically just releasing beta versions and then shipping patches after the fact to fix it up. So I don't know if that's what he's talking about, but... If I were Sam, I would use this moment to concentrate my power even more.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Which is what he did to startups. So, hey. I think this is Sam's opportunity to say, I told you we needed to move faster.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I think Sam says, we should have been moving faster. I told you we needed to productize this. I told you we needed to worry less about safety. And he uses this to make his case.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
It's a legacy thing, commercial enterprise solutions, where they get sold a product. This is the requirements of the product. There isn't even a discussion of the Java runtime.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Right. Woke nonsense is no longer going to hold American leadership back. Something like that, right?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And, you know, that also would line up really nicely because last weekend, Sam, after the whole trip to the White House to talk about Stargate, Sam tweeted on – looks like – Oh, did I save it? I shared it with you is his tweet about how he's. Oh, yeah. Here we go. Here we go. I don't know. I didn't save the date, but this is a few days ago. Six days ago, I think.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Watching at POTUS president of the United States more carefully recently has really changed my perspective on him. Of course. Shocker. I wish I had done more of my own thinking and definitely fell in the NPC trap. Oh, God. I'm not going to agree with him on everything, but I think he will be incredible for the country in many ways.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Now, previous Sam tweets about Trump were more about how he's going back to work to take him down, complimenting Reid Hoffman for trying to take out Trump. He said, you won't believe the things I'm building to help stop Trump. He's tweeted very aggressively against Trump. And now you're right. All of a sudden, he's like, I didn't think about it right. I didn't carefully observe him. I was an NPC.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
He could totally parlay that into, I didn't want to do it, Mr. President. The Biden White House made us be woke.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I would at least get a laugh out of it. It'd be pretty gross to watch, but I'd at least get a laugh out of that. You know, that'd be the funniest way to go. Would you get a laugh? Watching Sam shapeshift like Odo on Deep Space Nine is amusing to me. You know, it's even better special effects now.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Four score and seven boosts to go. All right. Well, let's get to the boosts and guess who's back. And he's back in a big, big way. It's our podcast with 125,000 cents. Oh, yeah. Beating last week's episode right off the top here. He writes, greetings, Mike and Chris. I have quite the corporate IT policy to share. Oh, good, good, good.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Ice's thank goodness SSH still works so I can log into the machine. Oh my goodness. That's a good one. Thank you, our podcast. That makes me feel better. We have much laxer IT policy here at Jupiter Broadcasting than that, so appreciate that.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah, yeah. So I do have it right here. Speaking to the Associated Press Deputy White House Chief Staff Bruce Reed, he recalled that Biden had grown concerned over the use of AI to generate fake images of himself in clone users' voices. It was during a screening of Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One at Camp David.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah. Sorry. I thought it was Top Gun. It was during a screening of Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One at Camp David that particularly alarmed the president. It is a Tom Cruise film, so I guess I get credit there.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah. He says, in the film, Cruise and his Mission Impossible Force team race against time to contain the Entity, which is a Russian-made AI that turns on its creators and sinks a next-generation submarine, killing all on board within the first few minutes of the movie.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
This is Coder Radio, episode 605 for January 28th, 2025. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show. Taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. Over there checking his charts, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hey Mike. Hello. Hey handsome.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Reed, again, this is a staffer of the White House, Reed told the AP, quote, if he hadn't already been concerned about what could go wrong with AI before that movie, he saw plenty more to worry about. In the words of Joe Biden, come on, man.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And it probably is extremely frustrating. I believe that.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Hey. Could have been worse. He could have watched Discovery. Remember the season with Control? That would have really freaked him out.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah, yeah. Anyways, our podcast, thank you very much for the Baller Boost. He's a good guy. He's a real good guy. No, he's a great guy. And not only is he here live, but he is also one of our boosters at the top of the charts. It's Adversaries 17 with 70,000 sats. I hoard that which your kind covet. Let's hear it, good buddy. And Adversaries writes, here's a boost to boost your day.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I've been loving the source feed. Just finished the episode, and I thought those boost numbers needed to be a little higher. Thank you. We really appreciate that. The show really needs the love, so thank you very much. Thank you very much, Adversaries. Mr. Borgander comes in with 8,999 sats. Here's some more sats for you. It must not stink. Stink is the showstopper.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Stink is the missing episode of Coder Radio that brings total obliteration. I will face my stink and will shower. Only sats will remain. Shower listener, I take it.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah, and I'm going to believe that it was written in the shower. I'm going to believe that.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Right. Well, if you contacted Jupiter Broadcasting and they asked, who's your current ISP? And I said, Comcast. And they said, are you considering moving off Comcast? Well, yeah, 100% considering. Can I? No. Would love to. So there's that. You mentioned the live chat. I just want to give that a quick plug. It's really popping today. Thank you, everybody in there.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Producer Jeff comes in with 10,000 sats. Boy, they are doing a lot with mayo these days. Here's a dumb corporate policy. My work gives us a locked down iPhone and Windows laptops. We use the Microsoft suite with lots of teams. The policies on the iPhone do not allow me to copy text from Teams that I send myself to paste into the company-built documentation app.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
But I can copy text from the documentation app, and I can paste that into Teams. Wow. As for the low boost, people must be recovering from the holiday debts. Could be.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Into Teams. Yeah, or into a Teams app, which you could be in anybody's team, I suppose, right? Yeah.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
It's B-Ed. As the kids would say, Jeff, it's B-Ed. That's real B-Ed. Yeah, that's real B-Ed. Thanks for the boost. Red 5Ds here with a row of ducks, 2,222 sats. I'm behind on my podcast, so not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Chris, you were asking about remote Windows services that you could RDP into for occasional use.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Well, unless you need more powerful hardware than what you have, you could use this Docker image that lets you run Windows in a container and RDP into it. I have thought about that, Red. I have thought about it. There's also one for macOS. One died, and I think one still remains out there. But I feel like if I'm going to use a Windows box, I probably need the hardware acceleration.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I don't know why else I'd be using it. I don't really have a reason to use Windows, so perhaps that's why I'm having a hard time conceiving of it. But I like the idea. I flip a switch and I have fully hardware accelerated Windows. I turn it off and it goes away and I never have to think about it again.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Essentially what you get with NVIDIA GeForce Now if they just didn't force me to play video games. All right. Here's our last one, Mr. Dominic. It's DG at PTC.com. With 5,000 sats, that's a Jar Jar Boost. You supposed! I didn't realize that prompt engineering was becoming such a thing. So many AI solutions are just really an interface to an LLM with a clever prompt wrapping each query. Yeah.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
There are subreddits dedicated to this. He says you can go search GitHub for Ollama OCR, for example. And you know what? You really get better results with a properly engineered prompt. You do. It matters. And some of my best stuff is things that I've found either on social media or on Reddit or somebody sent it in and said, hey, I've tried this. And then I tweak it for my use case. Yeah.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And also the more context you can give them. Yeah, DG, it is a whole thing. And just like for a while with search engines, there were people that knew how to compose a really good search and could get results out of older search engines. And so they had an advantage over other folks. I think we're there with prompt engineering. But thank you for the boost. Appreciate it. All right.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
We do the show typically on Tuesdays at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. I try to update the calendar if we have to move it around for some reason. And then I also mark it pending. and your fancy podcasting 2.0 apps. Then we have the Matrix chat, the Coda Radio general chat where you can bang, suggest, and help title the episode. And it's nice. It gives the show a good vibe.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Thank you, everybody who streams sats as well. We had 14 of you just stream sats as you listen to the pod. And collectively, you stacked 9,526 sats. When you combine that with our six boosters, we stacked a grand total of a much, much better 230,747 sats. Of course, a portion of that goes to editor Drew, myself, the network, and then we also include Mr. Dominic. So all of that goes.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And, you know, from time to time, I also will split out to like an open source project or, you know, a foundation that's raising funds. So from time to time, we do that. We also include some of the podcasting 2.0 developers and the podcast index as well. If you'd like to get a new podcast app, just go to podcastapps.com. There's lots to choose from.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I think the easiest ways to get started are just linked at the top of our show notes. And we really do appreciate if you got some value out of this episode, sending a little bit back to us. You know, we really do appreciate it. Boost! Thank you, everybody who participates. Now, back to the show, Mr. Dominick. You seem to have quite a bad time.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And I didn't catch all of it, but the keywords I got was A, something involving like a CICD pipeline you were using, something that was ridiculous, and basically a total non-starter for the type of work that you're doing. And I was like, all right, don't tell me anymore. Save it for the show.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Also, I'll just note this episode has no sponsor, so episode 605 is made possible by our members and our boosters and anybody who uses any kind of affiliate link when we have a deal like with Bitcoin Well or something like that. So if you get some kind of value out of today's show, please do consider sending some value back to us.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah, it's like not our fault, but it's our fault because we used it, but it's not our fault that they changed it and we can't just fix it for free.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
hey, you got 90 days or 180 days and this is going to quit working. When should we schedule for this? Instead of just leaving me in the lurch. Yeah.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Well, when I try to put myself in the shoes of calling this customer up or sending them an email and being like, surprise, here's something you didn't expect that's going to cost you money, that's a difficult position to be in. It's a bad conversation. Right. As a business person, yeah. Oh. I don't like that. It makes me feel uncomfortable just thinking about it.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
But let's talk about why NVIDIA lost almost $600 billion in market cap in one day, the single biggest drop ever for a U.S. company. Its shares plunged 17% on Monday, January 27, 2025, resulting in a market cap loss almost $600 billion.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah, yeah, enterprise. All right, well, Mr. Dominic, is there anywhere you want to send the good folks before we scoot?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
That would be my suggestion, alice.dev. Go there once a week, you know, if not. It's just part of your web routine. Maybe even put it in your bookmark toolbar, alice.dev. You can find me on the wild side of the internet at chrislas.com. That's my handle on Weapon X as well if you do that. The show over there is at Coder Radio Show.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And links to what we talked about today, those are over at coder.show slash 605. You're going to find our contact form and our RSS feed there as well. And ways to join our live chat, Matrix chat, all of that, which are just extended ways to enjoy the show. Take it a little bit further. Of course, we love it when you boost the show and support us as well. And a big shout out to our members.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Now, I hope you join us next Tuesday or Wednesday if you get in the RSS feed, because we will be right back here next week.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And, of course, any kind of companies kind of tangentially related like data center companies, Oracle, Dell, Supermicro, they all saw like 5% to 9% to 10% drops at some point during the day. So to be clear here, Mike, what's happened? One group out of China released an open source model. The entire industry had a heart attack for the day.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Are you hodling, I guess, your investments as the stock market crashes around us?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And I think this underscores a key thesis of ours is that the market has been immensely fragile since the market rate hikes began. We never resolve fundamental problems. Big money needed somewhere to go. And so when AI was an opportunity, they pumped the hell out of it, papered over the problems, which this is demonstrated in data by monitoring the S&P 500.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
This is why I believe the S&P 500 has been dominated by the Meg 7 for so long now. NVIDIA's market cap alone is equivalent to around 11 to almost 12% of US GDP. That's more than twice the relative valuation of Cisco at the height of the dot-com bubble. And all of that was shaken because one group released a series of open source models. All right, can we just take that in for a second?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
That's a signal. And it shows you how desperately they need this AI bubble.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Now, okay. Now, do you think this is Nvidia-Cisco moment? Or is that being overblown, right? Right during the dot-com bubble, Cisco was the most valuable company in the world. Then its stock fell like 80% after the bubble burst. And there's ironically just parallels here, right? On Friday, NVIDIA was the most valuable company in the world.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I mean, I don't think it's over for NVIDIA, I guess is what I'm saying. You know, I've been playing around with DeepSeek. I'm sure you got a chance to play around with it too. I sure did. It's good. It's really good. It's good. But it's not going to tear down the US AI companies. Right. I mean, what we saw, I think, is a massive overreaction.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
There's just there's a lot of doubts and the market just acted on them. I think that's what happened, because here's what's interesting is I did a little bit of digging into this. And a lot of what is uniquely innovative in version 3 of DeepSeek really surfaced in version 2 around Christmas of 2024. Some of the core stuff, the core innovations, was already announced back in December.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I had it up in the background just as I worked, just for the fun. I love it. I love the panic. But while all of that was happening, the news about a Java survey that was done around 2,039 Java professionals globally came out, and nobody noticed because we were all talking about NVIDIA. So before we get into everything that happened, Just a quick little detour here.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
But nobody seemed to care then. And then this week, all of a sudden we realized when version 3 came out and panicked. So I thought maybe here's a little background on the V2 model. Maybe we should have been paying attention then. DeepSeek version 2 introduced what are considered two pretty big breakthroughs. There's DeepSeek MOE and DeepSeek MLA. Now, DeepSeek MOE stands for Mixture of Experts.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Unlike GPT-35, which activates the entire model, MOE only activates the relevant parts or the experts for a given task. GPT-4 does this with 16 experts, each having 110 billion parameters each. DeepSeq MOE in version 2 improved on this by introducing specialized and generalized experts along with better load balancing and routing.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Then you combine that with DeepSeq MLA, which tackled the memory issue inference. So typically memory use skyrockets due to the context window. I see this on my laptop. Each token requires a key and a value. DeepSeq MLA... or I guess it's also known as multi-head latent attention, okay, it compresses the key value store. So it significantly reduces the memory demands during inference.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
So then version three comes out yesterday and it builds on top of all of that stuff. But that was the big, kind of some of the big breakthroughs. But then version three comes out with an even better approach to load balancing, which then further reduces communication overhead and multi-token prediction and training, which that made it cheaper to train by a lot
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And then you combine the fact that the folks behind DeepSeek completely bypassed using CUDA, went to a lower-level programming language, gained more optimizations out of their H800s, and they had a cheaper way to train this thing with a more optimized training path.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah, it's actually feasible that they train this thing for around $6 million because DeepSeek, they released all the data, I'll link to the report, from them. In there, they report that the training model required 2.788 million H800 GPU hours. And at $2 per GPU hour, the total cost came in at $5.576 million.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
So around $6 million to train this version three, which is massive because, you know, Chad GPT is like, you know, billions of dollars for the same thing. But what we all have to kind of keep in mind is
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
is the cost that 600 million does not include the costs of investing in training version one of deep seek or version two of deep seek or any of the models like llama or anything else, or even chat GPT that they also use to help train this thing and the investments that were in all of those, right? So the $6 million figure that everybody's freaking out about is just for version three.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And a lot of what was done there could be done anywhere. That's my assessment, at least. What do you think, Mike?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Especially when you start talking like $500 billion to build a bunch of data centers just to train these things.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
This report, which I'll have linked in the show notes, it titles itself bravely The State of Java in 2025, put out by Azul, which is a firm that focuses on Java. They report that 88% of companies are contemplating leaving Oracle Java. 88% of companies are thinking about this. Two years ago, as you might recall, we talked about this, Oracle shifted their Java licensing model.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I mean, isn't it kind of ironic that like two days after all that executive action stuff – Is it ironic or was it intentional?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
I mean, it's a little shot across the Bowie, a little bit.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Also, there's some irony that DeepSeek is put together by like an investment firm, like a banking group, and OpenAI is supposedly supposed to be like this open company. community beneficial thing? And isn't there some irony?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Putting all this together, I think the Coda Radio podcast is likely reliable because it features top-tier hosts with engaging content that address various tech topics in informative ways. The consistency and depth of episodes make it trustworthy.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
The Coder Radio podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting is highly reliable due to its expert hosts who deliver engaging, detailed discussions on diverse tech topics. There you go. We have consistent programming, rich content, etc.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Hold on. Hold on. You joke. But isn't that always going to be a competitive downside for DeepSeek in the U.S. or any NATO country or anywhere in the West really? Oh, yeah. What U.S. government is going to want to bake in DeepSeek versus something that a U.S. company created?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah. Are you talking like AI that you reach out over an API, it does something for you and spits back the results?
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
Yeah. This is what I'm wondering. And my question to the audience, if they want to boost in, is because it's MIT licensed, some of the training weights are open. Is that enough? Is that sufficient enough for US companies and institutions to eventually trust something like this? Because you see similar trajectories in Linux. There's countries and groups that contribute code to the Linux kernel.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
The NSA and SELinux and SELinux is used throughout the cloud industry, even in different countries that are not the United States. And they seem to make peace with it because it was open source. So I guess my question to the audience is, is that enough for deep seek to be used in U.S. companies and U.S. government businesses? Because.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
If it could get accepted, it would make the cost of development for these things a lot cheaper.
Coder Radio
605: The Democrats Behind DeepSeek
And they went from something that was actually affordable to something that's absolutely ridiculous. And so 42% of the customers surveyed cited the new costs as a reason. 40% cited they wanted to move to open source solutions, which is huge in my opinion. 37% were just discontent and pissed off by Oracle's sales practices.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And they test the sewage, and it turns out there's a lot in there.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Oh, how about that? Is that spicy or what? Yeah, that's my, my, my. I don't get the hostility quite because you can have both, right? Like you can have something that would – it would be great to have something that is an advanced tool that generates pictures to my specifications. And then if I as a human want to use it, that seems fine. But as a human, I don't have to use it either.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
What do you say we go back in time and tell the people the good story of how we recall the growth and history of DevOps? This was suggested by Editor Drew, and I love the idea because You know, part of this journey was captured, I think, on our show. Oh, yeah. When we were doing the pod, or in the early days, we were watching this go down.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So, I don't know, do you have any particular spot you want to start with this?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
In 2009, just for a little bit of history, the first DevOps Day conference was held in Belgium. And I feel like around this time, there was a power dynamic. developing between developers that needed to push code to like a web production or some production system and the system administrators that built those systems.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And on the sysadmin side, you'd have frustration with developers that didn't understand how the security dynamics worked or didn't understand all of the requirements that we had to run the system and wouldn't go through the hoops that we didn't want to set up, but we had to set up so that way we would be compliant, et cetera. And on the developer side, you had like,
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
But there's definitely some hostility in there including F-bombs about it.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It seemed like IT was slow to respond. We just want to push this thing out and we have to wait two days before they get a guy on it so we can move our files for us. Why can't we just move our own files? And this was a frustration brewing between two sides of the folks that needed to use the same system.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And it broke towards the developer eventually because companies needed the software to be built more than they needed the sysadmins to be happy and the systems would be architected correctly. Not the developer's can't architect the system correctly. But at the time, you had people like their entire focus for their entire career was deploying and managing systems.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And you had people, their entire focus was development. And the two didn't really share the two jobs. That's not really the case anymore. And we've also had significant tooling built out, which is really what I think made DevOps very possible, is you could start to manage systems pragmatically. It started to make sense to a developer how you could manage a system.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
When I zoom out, I think the fact that a company can say that and they're getting notoriety for saying that is an indication that there has been a sentiment shift.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, you're right. And that made it way more approachable for people to deploy software. And then there was a lot of grousing. Well, they don't actually know how the system works. But I think we're kind of past all that now. And people. We are not. No, you don't think so. You still think there's.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Well, OK, we're not fully past it, but there are people that can be both excellent developers and excellent system administrators. I felt very strongly against that back in the day.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Mike, do you mean the official programming language of the Coder Radio program?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You know what else I remember about DevOps? One more thing before we completely move off of it. This truly was the birth of intense business jargon and project jargon coming into system administration.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I just think that it's kind of a shame. And a lot of times when I hear a group of people talking the abstract, I think it often indicates they don't understand the fundamentals. And you had that kind of happen is these intense, vague names and descriptions of things started to get used more. And it's not that jargon wasn't technical beforehand.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It was technical, but it was specific and it was purposeful. And we saw kind of like this mal-change. I don't know. I think it was a bad change because we went from experts that are proficient in their field speaking to other experts, to everybody kind of talking in these abstracts, which was necessary, I think, but unfortunate and almost so bad you could parody it.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And so that was one of the things that I just really got turned off when I was in the industry back then and just really turned me off was that kind of shift. And I know it's a weird complaint now, but it was a thing.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yes. Well, I think that's, it's this in there is this waterfall to Agile kind of transition as well.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Oh, yeah, they'd love it. So much money to be made to help you manage this.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Mike, to be fair, there's a good portion of Outlook in there, too. So they do Outlook and PowerPoints. Fuck Outlook. Right, right. gives me headaches not even kidding I do a lot of custom integrations for SharePoint with Alice now and I just do not like it I must have said this on the show before but I literally had a co-worker that I sat next to and you know these were like short wall cubicles
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And he spent all day in Outlook. He did not – I don't even know if he had any other applications installed on his computer. And as a tech guy, I'm always paying attention to this. So he never – he would just sit there in Outlook all day long going between his calendar and his inbox. And then he would get up and go to meetings and he'd bring a paper pad.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And then he'd come back, and he'd spend the rest of the day in Outlook. I don't even know what he was doing. But he just never ran any other applications on his computer.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You know, because even well, even if you're well, but here's what I mean. It's like even if you're a system administrator, you're kind of doing things the DevOps way now.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Oh, that's good context. With this framing, it's like they're taking the anti-Adobe position, because Adobe's all in.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Well, this is where I was going to go. Now it's cloud. It's cloud now.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Well, what we have now is we have people that are AWS shops, Azure shops, Google Cloud shops. And that's a vertical. It's not like before it was the entire industry. But now you specialize in that vertical. It's a different thing. And you want to talk about jargon heavy.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, makes sense. Coder.show slash boost. Yeah, you can boost from the web now. And here's why we like the boost. There is no middleman. I think you'll probably recall we were just recently talking about Patreon and how they're changing the whole deal on their creators. I mean, they're claiming... Apple's making them do it. But then why make everyone change even outside the app?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Like these kinds of things, you don't want to build a foundation on top of. And we want to do this for another 15, 20, 30 years, as long as the old voice box holds out. We don't want a middleman. The other thing that is a real reality the last couple of years is sats are a scarce asset. There's only 21 million Bitcoin total. So what you're doing is when you're boosting, you're boosting sats.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You're helping the network hedge against currency debasement. Inflation hits small businesses excruciatingly hard. And for the media business, the ad rates or just have been going down in some cases or just completely gone combined with the cost of business going up because of inflation. So with sats, we can be strategic in our timing.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
We can hold on to them if we want or if we need to cash them out. Now we can't. Big thing is we don't have to worry about inflation melting away a strategic reserve that we can pull from as the network has expenses. And then a big one for us, it's all an open standard and it's all open source.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
From the monetary unit on the network to the self-hosted infrastructure to receive the boosts and everything in between that glues it all together. It's all open source. It's all self-hosted. It's programmable money and the workflow is only getting easier for you and the podcaster. You grab the Strike app, try out something like Fountain, link them up, and you're set.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Or you can boost from the web, too. You don't even need the Fountain app anymore. And if you send a boost of 2,000 sats or more, we'll read your message on the show. It's a powerful system, but maybe it's not for you. Maybe you want to put your membership on autopilot. Well, we got a version for you. You go to coder.show slash membership, and you'll also get an ad-free version of the show, i.e.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
you won't have to hear this anymore. If you use the promo code SUMMER as well, you can take $1 a month off forever! The Coder Program is an acquired taste, and we appreciate your support. Either a membership or a boost, it means a lot to us, and it keeps us going. That's Coder.show slash boost to boost from the web, or Coder.show slash membership to put your support on autopilot.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So we have a report from Mark Gurman over at Bloomberg, and he says that Apple is developing a tabletop robot. Here, I'll play a little bit of his interview so we can hear it in his own words.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Really, I mean, full-on humanoid robots at some point, too. Yeah, and the other thing that's sort of interesting in here is this is a subsidiary of Foxconn that's taking on the manufacturing of this, and this subsidiary has built robots, one robot, a manufacturing robot for Foxconn. The code name, they say, for this Apple robot project is J595, if anybody wants to look it up.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Jeez. Well, maybe people will have money again by then to spend on stuff like this.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Apple has lost it. They've lost their way. And I go back to – I've said this comment before. I think the problem is, is that the folks that run Apple, it's kind of like an oligarchy over there. And there's a few key people, some of whom have been around since the jobs days, that make all the decisions. And you can see them on their website. You see them in the WWDC events.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
They make the big decisions. And the problem is, is they have been privileged and rich for 30 years and they don't work for a living like we work for a living. They work, but not with the common people do. And they don't know what problems people are trying to solve in the real world. And so all they can try to do is come up with the next big Apple product in like their echo chamber.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And so what you get is a thousand dollar tabletop iPad that follows you around like a creep.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I look at what a flop so far the Vision Pro has been. Vision Pro is going nowhere. I guess they're selling for like half price on eBay right now. You know, when they come down to like 30% of the price, I might get one.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. So there's that. Also, so get this. Tesla is hiring humans. to train the Optimus robot via motion capture like you do for a movie. And so Tesla's hiring very specific people. They need somebody between 5'7 and 5'11 because Optimus is likely to have a height of 5'8. And they've hired over 50 people in the last year that fit this description that are using mocap suits to do different tasks.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Now you're spitting some wisdom here when you're saying that fear leads to anger. That's got to be what it is. But still, it's an interesting shift in the tone. I don't know. You know, I just look back and I think, what a wild year and a half it was around AI. And when it first kicked off, you could say no wrong. And we're still kind of in that era.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And they do these different tasks in these simulated real-world environments. Like doing the dishes? I don't know. Probably not that. But they do the task in these mocap suits, and then they use it to train the robot how to do the same task. That's what Tesla's doing right now. Full-on humanoid robots. We went from LLMs to robots real quick, Mike. Well, we need our next, you know, thing.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Isn't that something? I mean, that is. I thought, you know, maybe it'd be quantum computing. But no, it's LLMs because these robots have to be able to understand us, right? So just the LLM is going to empower it. So it's like the two play into each other.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
If I were going to buy a robot for the house, I'd probably be more willing to buy an Apple robot, though, than a Tesla robot or a Microsoft robot or a GM robot.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
What's Palmer Luckey's company's name? I wonder if they're going to make a domestic robot. How about Palantir's robot? Yeah. So just wild. So that's their next moonshot. So they've killed the car. And they're going for robots. I just got to ask you out there, audience. Would you do it? No. A robot powered by Siri? Are you crazy? Well, come on now. So it's 2026.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So let's say we're on generation two of Apple intelligence. Let's say it's actually good at figuring a few things out. You know, there's stuff around the house that sucks. You know, there's stuff around the office here that needs done. I don't know what this robot would be capable of, but if it could solve actual problems. I'd be interested.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I doubt it, though, because we never even got there with the virtual LadyTube assistants. We never got to the point where my LadyTube could contact Mike's LadyTube and automatically arrange a meeting on our two calendars. They couldn't even handle basic stuff like reservations, restaurants, or just two people with LadyTubes making a meeting like an actual assistant would do. We never got there.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So I'm just very skeptical. But if it was functional, somebody could mow the lawn or I don't know what it would do. Dishes? Cook? I don't know what you have a robot do in your house. But repairs? What if it could do repairs?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, good show. All right. All right, well, why don't we... We got a few emails. You want to get into some of these emails?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
R. Allen lives in a moose-based place, he says, I guess. Oh, no, that was supposed to be the most based place. All right, that makes a lot more sense. So I was kvetching about the traffic cameras in my area that automatically capture my license plate. And R. Allen writes, traffic cameras are not used in Missouri.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
What happened is people started putting fake paper tags on their cars and paper masks of city officials on. So like a paper mask on your face of the city official. Then they would start running the red lights at 2 a.m., which automatically sent the tickets to the people in charge. That's so badass. We would never do anything like that here. He goes on to say they want to weaponize traffic cameras.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Then we'll just point it right back at them. Selling the telemetry from your car and using it to deny you a way to work. You just don't buy from them or buy an older model. He says, I'm old and cranky and I'm not afraid to mess up some jerks on my way out the door. Thank you, R. Allen. We need more people like you out there messing up the jerks.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I think another sign of when things will really have turned is when... Everyone finally starts talking about how horribly creepy WorldCoin is and the fact that Sam Altman is tied to this horrible, creepy cryptocurrency that wants to track your eyeball scan on a blockchain. and it'll give you $25 of their fake world coin to do it or whatever.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I've clearly lived in the Pacific Northwest for too long. It never even occurred to me, I guess probably because it's probably violating the law, but paper tags and masks to look like the officials' cars and drivers and then to intentionally run the lights. That's so rebel. I can't believe I never heard that before.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
That is. That is. Thank you, R. Allen. Mike the Forgotten writes in about CrowdStrike. He says, I was just listening to the conversation about CrowdStrike, and I share your frustration, but from the angle of software engineering.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So many tech companies call their developers, quote, engineers, but it's events like this that demonstrate why, quote, real professional engineers, those who took the standardized test, look down on people that call themselves engineers. This problem was preventable, but instead of engineering a solution, they built the equivalent of someone doing a DIY for the first time. We...
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
The software industry have to do better. We don't have any official regulation or certifications that we need to pass like other industries do, but when one of your devs has a bad day and it costs the whole world $5.4 billion in losses, you can sure bet that we have the same or even higher impact.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You could argue that no lives were lost, so we don't need the same scrutiny as someone building a bridge, but I would counter that No lives were lost this time. It's just a matter of time, though. What if one of those delays was a cancer patient and days, months, or years were cut off of their life because they missed a treatment window?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
The only way we can prevent regulation is by actually engineering solutions and self-governing ourselves.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
This is why I had some big energy towards Microsoft. I mean, I realized they didn't distribute the faulty code. Yeah, it wasn't them, right? But it was their fragile operating system and its crappy boot process that hasn't been better engineered. Right.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Like Microsoft should be building their operating system to withstand flawed software because we have 35, 40 years now of data to show us that people are going to ship software on your operating system that does bad things. And so we should build that way. And the way we do that is by making the boot process more robust. So it knows how many times it's failed.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And if it's multiple times, it boots into a backup image. They have backup images. They're called shadow copies. So make them frickin bootable. And that's all you got to do to have solved for this is you just have it come up in a recovery mode where it disables the boot drivers because it failed twice. And they would have solved for this.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So I put the blame on Microsoft because they didn't engineer the foundation that CrowdStrike built upon. Now, CrowdStrike screwed up. They shouldn't have done that, and it's super embarrassing, and I think they've been let off way too easy to the point where it's bizarre.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
No, they sent out – Mike, they sent out Uber cards. You're good. They're good.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's the creepiest thing, and it's the quintessential definition of tech bro thinks he's invented something to solve problems for a country he's hardly ever been to and is also creating the very problem that creates the need. And that's not getting talked about. Like, so we're clearly not fully in the we can talk about everything phase yet. But Mr. Kuda coming out here feels like a sea shift.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
How do I do that? I just realized Microsoft has zero incentive to improve this. They already have the dominance. They can't. And they would love a nice moat.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's a great moment to take a little snipe and then, well, it wouldn't have happened if we hadn't been forced to build our system by regulation.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Unless they're listening to our show. You should let us know. Or my lawyer. Maybe we should hire you. So if you're a lawyer and you're listening to the show, email in. Somebody is going to sue us for libel money. Yeah, we should build out some contacts.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
That would be fascinating because CrowdStrike is a very politically connected entity.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Actually, they're very proud. They're going to be the global regulator of tech, don't you know? What if you just don't let them?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
YouTube should be its own company. The browsers should all be their own company.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, you'd just stick it with something else at this point.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And then you combine that with the activity that's happening on Wall Street. I don't know if anybody cares, but you're seeing the rotation from the Magnificent Seven that we witnessed for the last year or so. You're seeing them rotate into what's called smaller caps, which means smaller market cap companies.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, I wonder if this will be a talking point Microsoft uses in the future, the next time regulators come out.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Well, and guess who's one of their biggest customers? The government.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yes, I remember this. I do remember this. I remember this piece. I don't remember what it was.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
This is Coder Radio, recorded on August 19th, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show, taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and recovering from his visit with President Roswell, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Business? We'll see. I'd be curious to know what their response is. Now, as it happens, just as a matter of production schedule, we are recording ahead this week, which means that someone may have boosted in a new official language, but we don't know. And by default, that makes Go the official language one more week. And as promised, since Devator is listening live, we have our Go track.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
This was created by Mr. Wes Payne, and it is inspired in the classic style of Avril Lavigne, and it is the official language of the Coda Radio program for Go.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
All right. That's not bad. It kind of sounds like Sirius XM radio, but it's not that bad. It's not bad. We'll take it. Thank you, everybody, who does support the show, our Coder QAQ. Thank you very much. Coder.show slash membership if you'd like to put your support on autopilot. And thank you, everybody, who does boost in with one of those new podcast apps at podcastapps.com.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
We'll be getting to your messages. We're back to our regularly scheduled program. I think I'll have just gotten back from Toronto when we talk.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. Maybe they mean well. I don't know them. It's possible they mean well, Mike. Maybe they're just stupid. No, I don't think they're stupid. They mean well, but they're dumb. So you think they're evil then? Because if they're smart, then that's not good because that means they're evil. I'll let more qualified people speak on this one. I'd love to know. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And there's smaller tech companies that have much, much, much more regular everyday missions and valuations and not these crazy long shot AI NVIDIA plays. So the stock market is moving where it's putting its money to. And it's AI still getting money, of course. But it's not the only thing getting money now. And then you see CUDA coming out here saying, you know, F off AI.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Coder.show slash contact or if it's really mean, boost it in. Links to what we talked about today.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You're going to yell at me after all. Really, you actually this week. Coder.show slash 585 for links to what we talked about today. At least some of it. And, of course, over there you'll find information about our Matrix chat room going 24-7, our RSS feed. And we should be live next Tuesday at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. But you can always get the deets at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Coder Radio Program. See you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You know, you kind of came in hot. I saw the video. It was all over Twitter. Oh, you know. Speaking of coming in hot, you know, everybody has been jumping in on the AI hype. But I think maybe we're starting to see the beginning of the trend reversal. I don't know if the name James Kuda rings a bell. He's not the inventor of Kuda, as far as I know. But he is the CEO of Procreate.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
There's a... I think the bubble is... Perhaps we're finally getting to that phase where we're going to slowly settle down on the actual things that are left and practical that get implemented and put into production. You know, I go back to just as an example. A few years ago, the edge and IOT was all the talk. It's just a few years ago. I was down at Dell during the peak of this.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And most of what Dell showed me wasn't their Linux systems. It was all of their IoT stuff and this new edge management platform that they were going to work with the Linux Foundation to open source because IoT and the edge are the next frontier of technology. And it was all they all the tech industry talked about for years. Well, like three years until it just became normal.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And standardized and internalized and the hype faded and we sort of settled on a practical implementation of these things and a practical use case where we put things on the edge versus centralized. But that was a huge conversation for a while, and now we don't talk about edge devices and IoT at all.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's because… The tech industry has sort of been what's holding up the S&P 500 and everybody's 401ks and everybody's investment in the stock market has really been – I mean there's other companies like Defense and there's been healthcare. But when you zoom out since the dot-com boom, tech has been an exponential performer. Today, as we record, Google IPO'd 20 years ago.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Tech has been a significant market grower, one of the few sources of growth in the United States for the last 20 years. And so I think the reason why they've got addicted to chasing bubble after bubble is because the entire financial system in the country is hooked on tech. And they refer to tech as a risk on kind of investment. So they consider tech stocks to be volatile and somewhat risky.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
But that's the kind of stuff that the market likes to play to get returns is the volatile stuff. And so they look at tech as this volatile play to get good big gains and their big bets on Wall Street. And they got hooked on it. And so now tech is expected to continually deliver on that. So they're jumping faster and harder into every next thing that comes along because everything's riding on it.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
If I could just for a moment mention inflation is still up. It is going up at a slower pace right now.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So right now we're kind of – everybody is celebrating because like I think the CPI went to 3 or 2.9. It's in that range. It's a matter of kind of probably margin of error now. But that means it's still gaining. So think of it like this. Three years ago, you put on 36 pounds in one year. That was really bad. And then the next year, you put on 12 pounds. And now this year, you've put on six pounds.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You're still way overweight. You're just putting on weight slower. That's what we're celebrating right now. Inflation is still above the Fed's 2% target by about a full percent. And I would argue 2% inflation is still ridiculous theft. So it's not solved.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
which is a very popular design app on the iPad. And he posted a video about how Procreate is not implementing AI features. And everybody's been asking, when AI features? When AI features? It's pretty spicy, so I wanted to play a moment of it for you. Are we rolling?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's still extremely expensive to operate a family or a business unless you're in our audience's demographic for a lot of them who are in very well-to-do tech jobs. That's the class that has been impacted, I think, the least by all of this in the last couple of years. Ironically, most of them are in our listener base, I would bet, is people that have good-paying tech jobs that have –
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Frankly, probably overpaid relative to other industries for a long time. And so they've been ahead for a while. They've been making enough that they have buffer here that if eggs go from three dollars to eight dollars, they can still buy those eggs.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Just give it another month. It's coming back. That's what I feel. I feel like we're... We're just about on the other side of this. You and I... We've been talking about this for a while because you and I started giving people a heads up it was coming six months or so before it started happening. And told we were nuts. Right.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And now here we are on the other end of it and we're telling you it's about to ease up. But it got rough. It got really rough. Like bad. Well, OK.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Of course. You know what, Mike? They have no other route because this has been happening since 2008. So you have people now.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. I mean, it's been happening for a long time. Actually, if you look at if you look at Federal Reserve policy, they got really accommodative of Wall Street in the mid 80s. They really took on this third mandate, which is – so first mandate is maintain inflation. Second mandate is maintain employment. And then they really – they have this third mandate that they don't admit to.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
But it is keep the stock market afloat because everybody's retirement is tied up in it.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So you're going to have them start to get accommodative because of this very situation. Yeah. They really cannot push it any further. Inflation has not been fully solved.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And the issue is beyond the fact that you have just absolute shenanigans like people spending $200,000 on monkey JPEGs when you have 0% interest rates. But that gives the Fed no tools to adjust if the market has an emergency. So if the Fed lowers interest rates a few basis points, the market's going to respond positively. But they still have room to lower.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So that way, if the economic conditions are not improving, they can lower more. But once you're at zero, you cannot lower anymore. So there's no way for them to juice the market and improve things. So what they've done is they've bought themselves over the last couple of years
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
A teensy teensy tiny bit of breathing room where they can manipulate the rate a little bit and juice the market and pump things when they start to suffer like it's happening right now. And so they're probably never going to. Well, never. They're probably not going to go right to zero.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
They're probably if they go down, they're going to go down kind of slowly and they'll probably hover a little bit above where they were at in the past. And I would think that over time will start to improve things because money gets cheaper for corporations because when the interest rate goes down, their loans are cheaper.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And so they can take out loans often where the rates are actually lower than the rate of true inflation. So for a business, that's a great deal. So they'll take the rates. When they get down, they'll take the loans. They'll start hiring. They'll start investing. They'll start building again. that trickles out into the rest of the economy. But you can imagine that takes a long time.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
When the rates get tight, they can react very quickly by laying off, by suspending projects, by canceling sponsorships and advertising, pulling back on marketing, pulling back on trips, pulling back on software deals. R&D. R&D is the first to go.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And they can do that almost immediately, right? But the spin back up To start investing again in R&D or to start investing again in sales and marketing, to start investing again in hiring, you do that at a much more slower, much more cautious pace. So even though the rate will come down, it's going to come down slowly. It's not going to go right to zero. It's going to come down slowly.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So the impact will be slow and businesses will naturally be slow and hesitant to begin investing in those areas again. So that will be slow.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
This is Coder Radio, episode 592, recorded on October 22nd, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show. It takes a pragmatic look at the art, the business, the software development, and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and keeping an eye... On the world, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike. Hello, Chris. Yeah. I've decided you are our C++ correspondent.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, and this is nice because for a small project, you could run Solid Q on the same machine as, say, your web server, and you got everything you need right there. But they've built in the ability to scale it out so you can run it across multiple machines. You can have multiple machines working the job but still using a single database.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So you can have a separate database that they all refer back to. That's nice. So if you can start small and if your application needs grow, it's got horizontal scaling out of the box.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Hey, we're maniacs over here. You have a whole show about it. Yeah, we just set up a colo in Toronto.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And we're setting up infrastructure because, you know, you can buy now a pretty nice rig if you can get the rack space, the power, and the connection at some colo. You know, month to month, I mean, maybe you have a little bit more up front, but you save, I think, month to month.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I wonder if Microsoft and OpenAI will still be in a partnership by then because it sounds like things are.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Man, you know, this is why you got to make sure you get all the bank account stuff figured out before you move in together, because once you move in together, it starts to get a little weird. And the Wall Street Journal today cited sources. Actually, this was like a day or two ago, cited sources that OpenAI is now being advised by a Goldman Sachs advisor and Microsoft has turned to Morgan Stanley.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
These two companies, these two ginormous banks are. are acting as like intermediary negotiators because the direct talks have essentially fallen apart. And it looks like the deal is, you know, a focus on some sort of like – it's got to be around the restructuring that's happening at OpenAI and where Microsoft's cut is and all of that and what their say is and all of that.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So in 2020, Google did a little study and identified that 70 percent of Chrome's severe vulnerabilities were memory safety issues. We've also – we also saw another study came out that the White House cited in February. And their national cyber director. We actually talked about on the show really briefly where they kind of came out.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
You know it's got to be related, but of course we don't have anything that directly says it is. But reading through the lines here, it kind of seems like that's probably the case. This is sort of heated up as OpenAI is restructured and as people have left.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, and OpenAI is in a tough spot. They reportedly expect to lose about $5 billion on $3.7 billion in revenue this year. So they're going to supposedly make $3.7 in bill, but they're going to lose $5 billion. So they're in a tough spot. They need money. They're restructuring. They expect profit one day.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Microsoft wants like a 49% stake in what becomes of the public company or something like that is what's been reported recently. But having these two massive banks do the negotiations on behalf of the two companies that have traditionally worked directly, even originally they were working CEO to CEO, especially when Sam got fired for a weekend. It was CEO to CEO negotiations, right?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
It was top level to top level. Yeah. But now we're like Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan are doing the conversation.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And the implication here is Microsoft was the first one to lawyer up.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, it's something I got off the back of a truck. He said his freezer failed, and he was just trying to unload it.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Well, you know, think about it as if, but just for a moment to try to like steel man this. Imagine you or I came up with a product that got the interest of Microsoft, right? This is like one of a hundred things Microsoft makes millions of dollars on, right? But this is the only thing we make money on. Like, you get what I'm saying? It's like life and death for open AI companies.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And for Microsoft, it's like, well, it's one of their investments. And so I think that is an impedance mismatch right there. Microsoft would like to have, you know, Clippy 2.0, as the Salesforce CEO likes to joke. OpenAI is trying to become a top tech company and quote-unquote revolutionize.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Remember earlier this year when the White House came out and said programmers should be using memory safe programming languages. They said, quote, experts have identified a few programming languages that both lack traits associated with memory safety and also have high proliferation across critical systems.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I agree. Yeah. It seems like some folks in the chat or in the chat, you know, some folks out there in tech, they just don't really seem to draw any drama at all. And then other folks just over and over and over again, the drama seems to follow them everywhere they go. You explain that to me.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I know you, though, talking about the product, were kind of impressed by some of the new features that they announced recently, like this Canvas feature.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yes, they way overuse. Remember HoloLens or something? They've reused things several times recently. They've reused names. Copilot is one that now they're trying to fade away from. By the way, as of like this morning, the word is that the branding hasn't gone so well and that Microsoft's going to de-emphasize the Copilot branding.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So maybe it's going to be used for something else now, or it's going to go back to the original meaning. I don't know.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yes, they're going to call them agents now. So Canvas is a nice UI improvement to ChatGPT's results, where if you ask it a coding problem, it will put it out in a sort of pastebin-like style that renders it with syntax highlighting and line numbers and all of that. And it lets you review code and ask specific questions on each line of code and essentially try to debug potentially code.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
such as C and C++, and that things like Rust would be a memory-safe language to use, according to the White House and their recommendations back in February. So we've kind of been building to this pressure, I think, around C++. And then you have market competition as well coming from things like Go and Rust. So I don't know. Do you think this could become a reality?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I'll put a link to this in the show notes so you can see it. And it is a really nice feature. I'll have to try it. I have been playing around with Claude. which has had that same thing for a bit now.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And it's really quite nice because you can go into Cloud and you can say, I need a Nix configuration file that stands up these services, put all of the various variables that I need to predefine at the top of the file for me, and this is the name of my host, this is the URL, integrate all of that. And it will spit out into this side sheet Perfectly formatted syntax. You can take that.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
You can try to build it. If it fails, you can take the error message, drop that back into Claude and say, hey, dummy, I tried to build and I got this error message. And then Claude will be, oh, you're right, my bad. Hee hee, I missed this thing that's changed. Let me update that output for you. And it refreshes, just like I think ChatGPT does, that sort of paste bin line numbered error.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
syntax highlighted code that goes along now with your chat. And it will reproduce a new one, and it's got one little click so you can copy all of the contents. It works really well. Sometimes they go off into wild kind of suggestions. If you actually were just to follow blindly, it'd be like driving your car into a lake. Apple Maps. Yeah, yeah. But for the most part, it's pretty effective. So
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I finally broke down and I subscribed to Claude. I don't know. It's $20 a month, so I may cancel it after a month. But when you're really kind of in a debug process and you're like you're so close to this thing building, you really just like – and then it's like, hey, you've been chatting way too much. This conversation has gotten real big. You got to come back at 8 p.m., brother.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
You need to take a break. Or you can upgrade to pro and keep on going. Well, they got me. Of course. I'm like, I want this working. The kids are going to be home soon. I just want this to be finished. So I paid the 20 bucks and I did get it working. So I kind of I don't know. I'm going to keep trying, see if it's actually useful for that kind of stuff.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
But then I don't know if you saw this morning, Anthropic announced that now Claude will have the ability to use your computer. and interact with elements on your screen. Have you seen this?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So it can remote control and click stuff, interact with desktop apps, and it will imitate mouse and keyboard input via computer use API. So I think you run a local app, which means it's probably only Mac and Windows, but you run a local app from Cloud on your machine, and then it will talk to that app, and then it will talk to the OS and click on crap for you.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And they have video demos of it out right now where you can ask Claude how to do something and then just have it take over and do it for you on the computer. What if it hallucinates and clicks the wrong thing? I mean, this feels like a wild step and also kind of a weird intermediary step, sort of strange.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Like maybe the AI should just be communicating to some API instead of like going through the humans interface that's been designed for their meat fingers. It just seems like a weird roundabout way to solve problems. but also kind of a powerful tool. I don't know. Would you try it? Would you let it take over if you were trying to, say, configure something on a WordPress backend?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Maybe a new WordPress fork drops and you're trying to get it working. Wouldn't it be nice if you go into Cloud and say, hey, help me export from my old WordPress install to now FreePress or whatever they're going to call it?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you had like any kind of like administrative access or confidential data on the computer.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
It's interesting how they can even do it. How from inference, you know, from essentially auto auto match.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Really sophisticated auto match. They can somehow control the computer. You know, Apple released a study that kind of confirms what we already know on the show. But Apple put their scientists to it and released a paper that shows that These LLMs do not reason. They are doing – it's more association and it's more autocomplete and they have scientific data.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And interestingly, Mike, I don't know if you saw it, but one of the things that was really kind of obvious but yet clearly shows that their reasoning is not all there is they fed LLMs word math problems. You know, like a train is coming at you at 25 miles per hour and you're going at the train at five miles per hour. Like how long until you collide? Right.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
If you just change the names of, like, Susie and Bob, you know, Susie's driving the train and Bob's on a motorcycle, and you change it to, like, Fred and Rachel, the mathematical results it'll give you from the word math problem will be different.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So just changing the names of the people in the story produce different math results from the numbers. But that's one of many things that they sort of demonstrated, that these things are really nice high-end autocomplete.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Well, okay. So here's my steel man argument. Tell me what you think of this. The airplane flies faster and higher than the bird, but it doesn't fly at all like a bird, and early airplanes crashed an awful lot and were really rickety and seemed sort of silly.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And even though it isn't the way nature does it, you could argue an airplane can fly further, can fly faster, and can fly higher than any bird, so it's superior to a bird, even though it's not the way a bird flies.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I think we're now at a point where these tech companies have realized they don't have true AI but they have something that kind of smells like AI, kind of quacks a little bit like AI. And maybe if they just throw more horsepower at it, they can get it even closer. Remember what Zuck said.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I played a clip of Zuck saying, you know, we don't really know how much power we can throw at this thing and the results we'll get. Maybe if we throw, you know, a dozen nuclear reactors worth of data centers at it.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Right. Maybe once we get a dozen nuclear reactor-powered data centers all trying to do autocomplete real good, maybe it goes to some next level. Like, we don't know. But that's what they're going to find out. And we may end up being like, ah, this actually isn't the way to go. Probably not, but it's possible. It's just a wild thing. It's a wild world we live in. It's a wild world.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
See, this is my thinking, is C++ is going to be around historically. Just with so much legacy software, we have 30, 40 years now of software the industry has been building. I totally get why new projects that are starting at zero are choosing things like Rust at a pretty high clip or have chosen things like Go or other things. But just look at the Linux kernel.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Four score and seven boosts to go. That's why we are grateful for the support we get from the audience. And Hybrid Sarcasm is our baller booster this week with 100,000 cents. Hey, Rich Law! He's giving you a shout out for sacrificing more of your prep time again, which we appreciate. How did all that go? Because last we did a double. So that way you had time to prepare for the hurricane.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
There you go. Oh, my God, Mike. How long until somebody gets Claude to play a video game? You're right. Somebody's going to get Claude to play Mario.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Meanwhile, it's going to get down into the 30s here later this week.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
It sucks, man. It sucks. It's either really rainy, windy, or really cold. So when the clouds finally clear, then it just gets really cold. That's what keeps it above freezing here is all the rain.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yep. All right. Adversary 17 comes in with a handsome 73,728 sets. I hoard that which all kind covet. He's great and happy and glad to hear that you survive the crazy weather out there. He says, about my last boost regarding the rust tool chain. Clippy is a rust linter. that makes your Rust code better, often suggesting patterns that are more like the Rust way of making things easier and simpler.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I found it useful as it provides links to documentation behind each lint and why you do it.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, that's true. Although it does sound very handy. Thank you for clarifying, Adversary17. Appreciate that. Rotted Mood comes in with a handsome 20,000 sats. And I don't know. I think he wants some mac and cheese on there. Should I get him? Should I give him some mac and cheese? Here you go. Put some macaroni and cheese on there, too. I think Rotted Mood wants mac and cheese.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
He has no message, though, just sending us some support. So I don't know for sure. I don't know for sure. But there you go. I hope you liked it. Retrogear comes in with 3,000 sats. B-O-O-S-T. I don't like my job and I don't think I'm going to go anymore. Well, you have our support, Retrogear. Let us know how it works. You could always become like, I don't know, like an AI tester.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Just put AI and go start an AI company. Do it for six months and put it on your resume. Now you can claim you're an AI expert.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
There you go. Problem solved. Cronrad comes in with 8,675 sats. The traders love the vol. Catching up on the shows, but a good tool for software diagramming is IcePanel.io. It follows C4 modeling, and I think it works really well. Also streaming some splits to editor drew or sometimes failed for me. Yeah.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
That's not going to get rewritten anytime soon. Maybe it will one day. Maybe one day we'll have, I don't know, version, maybe version 10. Isn't it mostly in C, though? Yeah.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Every now and then nodes go offline, but let me know if you have any persistent problems because everything should be a okay right now. Thank you. Gran rad for that boost. And the, again, the diagramming software he's talking about is ice panel. You can find it at ice panel.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, I think that's a requirement. If you get Y Combi money, you've got to have a nice – oh, this is a nice website.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Look at that thing. It floats there. That's cool. All right. That actually looks pretty legit. Real project?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Oh, my God. Well, if you're going to get a website like that, you better have a real one behind it, I guess.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Oh, that's a good point. All you really need is a great website and then, you know, a timeline of some sort. Thank you, everybody who supports the show with a boost on your own terms. As you like it, we had 26 of you just stream your sats as you listen. 23,899 sats sent in that way. Thank you, sat streamers.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
When you combine it with everybody who sent in a message, we stacked a grand total of 229,302 sats. Not a barn burner, but not a bad one, and we appreciate the support. Thank you, everybody, who keeps us going. It is a Value for Value podcast. It's all made possible by our audience. You can boost with a new podcast app at podcastapps.com.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
We'll have some links to get started at the top of the show notes to make it real easy, or go pick your app of choice at podcastapps.com. So I want to play this for you. You may have heard this already because it's not the first time I've played it, but in case you haven't, I want you to hear this because I think it's important we get this on the Coder Radio program.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
We've talked before on the show about Notebook LM, Google's little Skunk Works project that's gone quite viral. And it's getting used by our audience out there. And one of our listeners threw in some Red Hat course material to help just kind of digest it and prepare for the exam. Seems like a pretty great idea. The results they got surprised them, and they had to send it to me.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I want to play it for you. It's less than a minute long, and then I want to hear what you think on the other end.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
But my point is you're not going to get legacy code rewritten into Go or Rust. That's not going to happen. And you're right. Maybe a new project, if you're building something new, if they can get compatibility to work, you could see somebody using safe C++ with an older C++ project and – Perhaps those two worlds can coexist, but you're not going to rewrite the whole thing.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
It's that spirit of collaboration and shared knowledge that makes the Linux world so exciting and rewarding. So to our listeners, as you continue your Linux adventure, remember to embrace the command line, explore new tools, and never stop learning. Who knows what incredible things you'll achieve with the power of Linux at your fingertips.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Now, I don't know about you, Mike, but I think that sounds a bit like me. Just a touch. That was the clip from Notebook LM. That was not me speaking. Yeah. And of course, it's also weird because it's a topic I would talk about. Here, I'll play just a second of it. A spirit of collaboration and shared knowledge that makes the Linux world so exciting and rewarding.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So Notebook LM just kind of like accidentally cut this in. You know, I don't think they meant to do this. I think this is like they were drawing from JB content to help, you know, inform their podcast because it would kind of make sense. They're making a podcast, so they probably skew towards preferring other podcast content about this topic.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
But, A, it means they're lifting what I say and they're building a product on top of this without even talking to me. And, B, it means that, like, my voice is out there in a domain that I actively am actually working in, Linux.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
My voice is out there talking about Linux, talking about it in a way that is a little cheesy and campy that I wouldn't really prefer to be associated with by a company that I'm not super comfortable with, which is Google. And the whole thing's really bizarre, and I'm still processing it.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And we've tried several times to get it to reproduce by throwing Red Hat material at it and other Linux material at it and have not gotten it to reproduce my voice since. That's, yeah, that's going to be a problem. Maybe I should join ScarJo, you know?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So a couple of days ago, Google announced that now you can tweak what the hosts talk about and you can kind of customize.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, if you could actually get the... It seems like you cannot provoke it to use a voice, but it clearly has the capability of emulating... That's the other thing I think this reveals, this clip, is that this Notebook LM doesn't just do their voices, the two hosts. It can do... Other people's voices as well.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, it must be. Yeah. And because this was a – they were making a Linux podcast, right? So it's not surprising that they would kind of – because even if you just sucked in YouTube, we publish our stuff to YouTube, which is a Google property.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Yeah, so there's a lot of ways they could get my voice, but it's a little weird. It would be nice if I just got an email like, hey, by the way, you just emailed the email address in the RSS feed. That's all I'm asking. You know, you could do that.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And there is nothing you can do about it. So, yeah. Well, now I'm like, okay, if that's the case, then give me the ability to log into my Google account, verify who I am. I'm a Google Apps customer. And let me generate my own stuff. You know? I'll just have a soundboard of me, dude, just saying stuff. It'd be great. Say it once, let the AI do it, and I don't even have to show up some days.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Anyways, I just wanted to get that on the show because after all this we've been talking about it, how ironic that it happened to me, little old Linux podcaster me. Yeah, I don't know. Here we are. We're in the future where there's just nothing you can really do about it. Welcome to making content for the internet, I suppose.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Speaking of which, is there anywhere you'd like to send the good folks before we get out of here?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Alice.dev is the place to go. You can find me if you want to screw around with the Nostra thing. It's kind of cool. It's a fun technology, chrislas.com. And I'm also chrislas on the Weapon X, if you still do that. Otherwise, I'm not big on the social media.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I do lurk in the Matrix chat from time to time, which you can also find linked on our website, and we always would love to have you join us over there. In fact, links to what we talked about today are at coder.show.com. Yeah, we're in sneezing territory of episode 600, if you can believe it.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Thank you to our members for supporting us for over a year now, for keeping us going, and a shout-out to everybody who boosts in on your terms as you like. We really appreciate that. And, of course, we'd love to have you join us live. We do the show on Tuesdays, typically, at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar for that schedule.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Or if you've got a podcasting to-do app, you don't got to worry. We'll list it in there for you ahead of time so you know when the show's coming up, and then you can just tap and listen live. Hey, thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode. See you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Sure. I'd love to hear from the dark matter devs out there because I feel like something like Rust or Go, you might try that with an entirely new project, something kind of small, something that doesn't have an immediate timeline. But There's no way you're going to be able to convince any of the management types.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
What a mixed honor. You know, like, if we were to bring you on to another show, we would be like, host of Coderator Program and Jupiter Broadcasting's C++ correspondent joins us tonight to break down C++'s continued Borg-like mission. Mr. Dominic, what are you learning...
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Any of the project planning types that you should rewrite that enterprise app that Mike mentioned from 2004. Even though you're dragging it up a hill like a bag of rocks and it's like probably a major pain in your butt to keep running on modern systems. There's probably no way you're going to convince them they should rewrite that. And you probably know it's riddled with insecurity. Yeah.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
See, I would think so, right? Do you think that's like one of the dominoes that has to fall?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
You know, I got to ask, Wes brought this up in the live chat, and I want to put this out there to the audience. You can go to that show slash contact or boost in. Has anyone out there ever worked at a place where they've done an actual rewrite and actually tackled tech debt at the institution? Has anyone worked there?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I would think maybe, maybe a gaming company of all of them might just because, you know, you have to to achieve the performance levels you're looking for or something. But I got to know.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I wonder if anyone within the reach of our voice has ever worked at a place that has actually invested thousands of dollars to improve their existing infrastructure and rewrite some core application they created a decade ago.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Oh, God, could you imagine? Yeah. Because maybe that's what happened, man, is, you know, like 20 years ago, it was it was people were replacing and legacy stuff. And then those those migrations. You know what? There's actually kind of I started joking. It's actually kind of ring true. The migrations went badly. People got burned. And so management became very resistant to it.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
It's already hard to spend the money, but those early migrations and stuff, we didn't build stuff for portability. We didn't really know what we were doing. We didn't have the systems as well designed as they were, so they weren't necessarily easy to swap over. We didn't have it down back in the day, and so migrations sucked.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And a lot of the software that is out there now is written from that era, even though we've learned so much more now. I'd be fascinated to know if anybody's actually ever gotten their company to do it.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I don't think it's ever happened. Yeah. All right. Well, there you go. Save C++.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
One day. At least if the C++ Alliance has anything to say about it. Coder.show slash membership. That's how you can support the show and keep us going directly right there on autopilot. The show's had no sponsor for over a year. I'm amazed it's worked out, but it's thanks to the support of our audience. You want to keep us going? You can do it automatically at Coder.show slash membership.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
We'll give you a version of the show that doesn't have these spots anymore. And when you deserve it, when you've been a good listener, you get a Coderly as well, which is like a whole other Coder radio. Well, kind of. But, you know, you got to earn it. You could also just support all the shows annually and not worry about a month to month thing with the link I'll have in the show notes.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I don't have a fancy URL for you, but I will have a link in the show notes. You could also do it on your own terms with your own amount, the frequency you prefer, the duration you prefer, how you prefer with a boost. If you send us a boost of 2,000 sats or more, we'll read it on the show.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And it's a great way to support us because it goes directly to me, Editor Drew, the network, and the general fund, which also supports Mike. And you do that just with a boost with no middleman, no company in between us, nobody we have to go request the funds or can hold things or takes a percentage. And you do it from a new podcast app.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So you need an app like Fountain or Castomatic or so many of the great ones that are listed at podcastapps.com. then you can boost the show and support it that way too. However you do it, we're grateful. It's crazy we've made it this far, and it's really only because people have stepped up. But we still need that support, and we want to keep going for you.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Maybe it always should have been this way. You know, a show like Coder does get a little spicy sometimes. Maybe it should have always been this way. Friends, let old Chris tell you a story for a moment. Stay a while and listen. Even if you're not a listener, you're probably familiar with This American Life. They're one of the major podcasts out there.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And as Pod News covered, even this American life has realized the podcasting ad market has collapsed.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
Do you think, so the safe C++ extension proposal, which was last month, like late last month, which is an evolution in C++, a proposal for safe C++ extensions to enhance memory safety and, you know, basically respond to the great threat that is Rust. Exactly, right.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So they're launching direct support programs. They even joke that it should be called This American Life Support or This American Lifeboat. I think they went with something a little more mundane for the actual name. But it's not just now the niche podcasts. It's across the entire podcast industry.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And I just hate to see something like that wipe us out because podcasting is such a unique medium with such a range from This American Life with a staff of like 36 people Dakota Radio with like myself, Mike and editor Drew making it happen. It's like just totally different scale. And yet podcasting can be great in all aspects. And it's truly, truly open and distributed.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And so with your support directly, we'll keep on going. So either if you boost or if you become a member, we just really appreciate that you help us. And we've been we've been able to do this for like more than a year. I should get the actual days because it's I'm Pretty proud of it. Thank you, everybody who supports us and keeps us going. I've been following DHH's adventures.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
On YouTube, on Twitter. I mean, he's all over the place. And Ruby on Rails has been getting a lot of attention as a result. RailsConf, I think, just happened as well.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And we got Rails 8.1. So, I don't know. Where do you want to start?
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I am actually really glad you took this side because I've been seeing that too. And I'm like, what the hell is going on here? I mean, okay, anyways. Yeah.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
I like weird. So we'll keep an eye on the chat room, see if anybody... So again, he's still on Linux.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
So the work's being done via the C++ Alliance. Its president and executive director, Vinny Flacco, said that it was, quote, a revolutionary proposal that adds memory safety features to the C++ programming language. You know, this kind of – the article that we'll have linked to the show notes kind of puts it in context. And it is worth mentioning, right?
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
This is Coda Radio, episode 604 for January 21st, 2025. Hey, friends, and welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show, taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and joining us right there, looking at real estate, I assume, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hey, Mike. Hello. Hello. How are you doing over there?
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Ah, I see what you did there. I like it. I'm all about taking advantage of cheaper and cheaper economical storage.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yeah, and even then, you know, it would probably serve one or two downloads decently fast.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Good to see, though. We'll put a link to the Rails 8 solid trifecta video in the show notes. It's not too long.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yeah, yes. Check out BitcoinWell.com slash Jupiter. It seems inflation is here for years, and I've been thinking about how do I protect my savings or my purchasing power, especially because every dollar counts these days. Well, that's why I've been thinking about the Bitcoin Well. It's a non-custodial Bitcoin platform. That means you're always in control of your keys.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Bitcoin has been the best performing asset 13 out of the last 14 years. I challenge you to try to find something that's done better, especially when you measure over, say, a four-year time period. This is how I am hedging against inflation, and I'm doing it with the Bitcoin well. Their automatic self-custody means they're always my Bitcoin. They're always my keys, your keys in your wallet.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
You start with self-custody. You avoid having to move later, but you also are not risking their security, their platform. This is one of the great things about Bitcoin. You can hold it. And then when the market gets crazy or the world goes nuts, you have real peace of mind knowing that you have a scarce asset that you own the keys to.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
And the Bitcoin Well has support for on-chain and Lightning transactions. So you can top up your podcasting wallet real quick if you want to do some boosts using the Bitcoin Well. And, of course, you can move things quickly and privately over the Lightning Network.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
They're based in Canada, and they have a wide range of services for the locals, and they're rolling out more and more for us here in the U.S. market, like BillPay. That just went live in the States recently. They also offer something for large purchases. They're over-the-counter Bitcoin well-impotent service. So if you're going to make a big investment, they offer hands-on services like that.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
So to really wrap this up, when I'm thinking long term, when I'm thinking about protecting purchasing power and I'm thinking about self-custody, I'm thinking Bitcoin Well. They have competitive pricing, educational resources, but ultimately it's their focus on you owning the coins. Bitcoin Well is redefining how you can interact with Bitcoin.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Letting you use it peer to peer the way it was meant to be. Head to BitcoinWell.com slash Jupiter to learn how to get started and support the show. That's BitcoinWell.com slash Jupiter. The Bitcoin Well. The way Bitcoin was meant to be. BitcoinWell.com slash Jupiter. So let's talk about framework fatigue, something that I think you bemoaned, oh, about eight years ago on the show.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
But this came up this week, posted over at blog.com. What is that? R-E-D? I can't read it quite because I'm an old man.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Well, I think we're out of good domains. I don't know. That's a .dev. I'll put a link in the show notes. Essentially, though, the summary is the rapid evolution of JavaScript frameworks, like we've talked about, has led to this rapid reoccurring cycle for developers. They discover new tech. They briefly engage with it. Then they move on, often critiquing it, but that's a side point.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
And it's this constant influx of tools that strains mental bandwidth and leads to frustration within the community, which we've touched on. And, you know, there's a stress to it because some developers feel like, well, I've got to keep up so that way I'm staying competitive or maybe I have good job security, maybe I can find a new job. They fear obsolescence.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
So that also creates sort of this pressure and then the negativity around when new stuff comes around. It's like, oh, great, something else I have to learn now. Ultimately, the author suggests that understanding this emotional response can actually help you lead to a more constructive discussion about technological evolutions and move beyond just knee-jerk reactions, which I think I agree with.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
The framework churn aspect, I think, struck a note with me. It's something that you've talked about on the show quite a bit.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
All right. Well, the things he focuses on is – Obviously, to people that are looking for jobs, the human cost has become more visible. We hear all these stories of burnout, people's relationships that failed because of how hard they were working, the mental health struggles people have had, just a big label of massive burnout.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Here's the problem. All these things are true, and there's lots of reasons to have been burned, but... I do think, and the article touches on this as a stress point, but I do think it's kind of true. This is the part I agree with. If you become complacent towards all of the new stuff, you inevitably will miss out on something that is better, perhaps can help you work better, cheaper, etc.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
And of course, you also have big tech compensation packages that have tweaked the risk-reward here. So the math is a little bit different when senior engineers can make $300,000 at an established company. Then maybe your big payout, even if it does happen, isn't so lucrative from a startup. Then there's lots of limitations with the VC model. They focus on hyper growth, often exits.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
I'll channel my inner Wes. Yes, it is hammer time. And, you know, he linked us to a couple of good posts that I'll put in the show notes that are really like just strong, strong pieces that say frameworks, like the first one, frameworks are evil. How to design composable libraries and how and why to avoid callbacks in library design.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
As the title suggests, this boils down to one thing, build libraries rather than frameworks, exclamation mark. Libraries instead of frameworks. There's Biff. Biff is a monolithic full-stack web framework for Clojure created by Jacob O'Brien.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
And he has a quote, or there's a quote about his project that is, we want a collection of principled components built to be discarded, separated by interfaces that are built to last. So, you know, get on the library train is what my inner Wes would say. Get on the library train and, you know, Screw frameworks. I don't know. I overdid it on there at the end.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yeah, okay. All right. We don't need to get into last week's episode all over again. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Chris. I'm sorry. Four score and seven boosts to go. Oh, we got a nice little handful of boosts to get into. And Nostromo is our baller booster this week. He is our Rich Lobster. Hey, Rich Lobster! And he sent in 33,333 sats. Let's raise those sats totals, he says.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Thank you, Noster. We really appreciate that. And then Anonymous came in, much lower down on the charts, but we still really appreciate it, with 2,000 sats. And I don't know who you are, Anonymous, but let us know. Do you really want to rent a Windows VM? I have a fiber connection and would be willing. Find me in your matrix.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Sometimes they're real business models. Sometimes they're just a pump. And then I think also you have one of the things they say, like the number four point here, is that the industry is just getting more mature. The low-hanging fruit of the mobile web era has largely been picked. Truly innovative opportunities are harder to find. Sort of the four points they put on it.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
What I was hoping to get is people's feedback on Windows as a service that you use the RDP client and is it performant and all of that. I don't know. I don't want to mess with Windows ever except for maybe every now and then. But then usually when I do, I want 3D acceleration. So I'm just a mess. Don't listen to me.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
I know I could create my own Windows VMs, but then I would have to install Windows. Do you see what I'm saying? You understand? Right, and that's the core problem. That's the core problem. I don't want to install Windows, exactly. I don't even want to go through the user create. I don't know. Just run the application. Windows is a service. It's coming. You'll see. Thank you, Anonymous.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
YukonAnalius is here with a Jar Jar Boost. That's 5,000 stats. You're so boost! He says that we should check out the WIIM, that's W-I-I-M streamers, instead of Sonos. I have both systems at my home, and when my Sonos stuff dies, I'll be moving everything to the WIIM. It allows you to bring your own speakers and just add a streaming module to the multi-room audio. That is nice.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
No, no, I don't either. And our last boost this week is from Framework Fighter for a row of ducks. 2,222 sats. So it turns out all we needed was Postgres all along.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yeah, I got no notes either. Oh, hey, look at this. And a last minute boost. I hoard that which your kind covet. From Mr. Bonkander saying, sending some bonk or some bork. Oh, okay. Mr. Borkander. Sending some bork back your way. 16,600 sats. And 69 sats. Just pump the brakes right there. Well, how about that? That changes the math right there for the episode. So thank you very much.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Last minute live booster is always very much appreciated. So it wasn't our best week. You know, we haven't had a great 2025 so far. I'm going to be honest with you. I think maybe people just think we stink. You know, maybe they just feel like we stink now. I don't know. I showered last week. I did too. Dude, I showered and I think I brushed my teeth like four days ago. So I am. Nailed it.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yeah, I'm in good shape. We had 23 total participants in the value for value model for episode 604. 19 of you streamed sats, so we stacked 44,275 sats via our streamers. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate you out there that's just streaming them sats. And then from the boosts, thanks to our last-minute boosters, we stacked 103,799 when it's all brought together.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
So the boosts by themselves were 59,000. Bring it all together, 103,799 sats. For good luck, I'm going to play the Sequest theme one more time. I think maybe this is what wrecked it. I'm going to say this is the test. If the boosts are bad next week, we'll know it's this. Now, if you'd like to boost, we'll have some links in our show notes to make it possible.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
You can get the Strike app in over 110 countries. If you're in Canada or the U.S., Bitcoin well slash Jupiter, and it'll send the stats right to your wallet. Fountain FM is a fully hosted way to get going, makes it really easy, but there's self-hosted options as well at podcastapps.com. Thank you, everybody who supported this episode with a boost. It means a lot to us.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
I thought this was kind of interesting. So Hewlett Packard Enterprise, you know, HPE. is being investigated for claims known by a group as Intel Broker, a hacker group, Intel Broker, who alleges they've breached HPE's developer environments and obtained sensitive data. And this group has kind of a history. They've breached other organizations.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
The stolen archive reportedly includes, you ready for this? It's a good one. It's a good one. Source code to HPE's projects. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And Docker builds. Uh-huh, uh-huh. SAP hybrid data. I don't know what that is, but the one that really stings. Their certs, both public and private keys. Aye, aye, aye, sword on. Yep.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Also, allegedly compromised product data includes their ILO source code for remote server management, as well as potentially credentials to the WePay, GitHub, and other platforms, as well as internal APIs. Yep. HPE says they've immediately activated a cyber response protocol, rotated credentials, and launched an investigation, but they have not found any evidence.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Is this the show? Did you just come up with a show idea? There must be NCS Cyber Edition, right?
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
I'm going to reroute the operating system into the secondary disk and then we'll boot from that and we'll unload the compromise and bring back the original environment. That's how they talk. Intel Broker has been linked to cyber attacks on other organizations such as DC Health Link, Nokia, Cisco, Equity, Panabai, and Europool. Wow. Apparently they've been active since October of 2022.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
No confirmed evidence of the breach yet from HPE, but they continue to monitor the situation closely. Look at these go-getters. I know, right? Ah, the wrong biz, Mike. We picked the wrong biz. But also, HP?
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Dude, it'd be worth it just for the Lilo stuff alone. Those cards are built into servers all around the world.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
All right. I got a question for the audience. If you made it this far, boost in with the most ridiculous corporate policy that you've had to deal with. You know, we were talking about working for big companies or startups. The big companies have their stability, but they definitely have their downside.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
So make me feel better about my small business and boost in with the craziest corporate policies that you've had to deal with. We can redact your name if you prefer. Let us know. I think that could be fun next week.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
I think Alabama would be better, yeah. You got anywhere you want to send the good people?
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Good to keep an ear out for. You can follow me on the wild side of the internet over at chrislas.com or over on Weapon X. The podcast here is at Coder Radio Show. You know what, though? Screw the social medias, you know? Screw them. Well, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to coder.show, and you can go to slash 604, get the links for the stuff we talked about.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
There's some good links, some good reading in there. including the stuff I found while channeling Wes Payne, as well as the YouTube video we mentioned earlier and links to help you boost in if you'd like to do that. Don't forget we're also live next week at our regular time. It should be noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern over at coder.show slash live.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
You can also just plug jblive.fm into like a web browser when we're live. and it'll just tune it in. Turns out it's really easy. It's just an MP3 stream. You're also going to find our contact form and our RSS feed, because we'd love it if you'd listen weekly. Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Coder Radio Program, and we'll see you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Right, the easy money where the VCs got access to lots of funding dried up.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Also, if you've got less mergers and acquisitions, then there's less cash-out opportunities, so there's less incentive to invest.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
I wonder, though, say the markets get frothy again and, I don't know, in another year the interest rates come down a couple more times. I still don't think it works.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Even with easy money, having gone through several different VC-funded companies sort of through rapid succession, what I noticed is, first of all, the kind of founder that can sell and pitch to some rich person or firm and get millions of dollars in funding, they might not actually be a great product person or a great organizational person or a great leadership type person.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yeah, but they often get the CEO position because they're the one that closes the deal or the one maybe has the initial idea. And they're the one that has the ego big enough to think they can go pitch it to some billionaire to cut him a check. So I think sometimes it starts just like from the very beginning, not in a stable position. But then additionally, once they get money –
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
It tends to get very chaotic inside these startups. You have bosses that will change out from above you and underneath you. Your very position and rank in the org chart will get moved around. Some people just find that extremely stressful and they don't like the uncertainty of it because one day you're in charge of something. The next day, somebody else is telling you what to do.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
And, you know, the other reality is, is VC companies tend not always. But do tend. to hire like crazy. So there's always new folks getting onboarded who need to be brought up to speed on how to do things. You also have a natural churn rate when you're hiring a lot. You're going to have, say, you hire three people.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
It might be as high as two of them don't stick, but generally one of them doesn't stick. And so then you've spent a bunch of time on that and you're constantly doing that. But additionally, the company recognizes that this is a problem and so they want to help you. And so then they're constantly iterating and investing and trying different tooling and
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
which means you have to constantly use different tooling and different apps to manage all of this. And it just becomes extremely, extremely messy. You're always shifting gears. And it's just really kind of a high energy pressure cooker environment. And I think some people like that. You know, some people like dynamic, high energy, high stakes.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
But I think not everybody, especially as you, you know, get a little bit longer in your career. I think you start to appreciate some of the stability and predictability of a much larger company. Unless you have a particular personality type that just cannot stand large companies. You know what I mean?
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
So there's like fewer and fewer reasons these days to join these startups when you look at the compensation packages, when you look at all of these downsides.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
No, I think Salesforce showed us last week. They're not a small startup, but they showed us last week how you can take a reduction in staff and turn it as an AI flex.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. In some ways, that would probably be better for these companies.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Yes, I was wondering if the chill had reached you. You know, because... The word is, it ain't like it used to be out there. You know, and even just a few years ago here on the show, it was a totally different scene. I mean, just imagine like when the app store was really taking off and online, you know, like blogs and web presence were really taking off.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Hmm. I'm trying to run a counter argument, but I can't come up with a solid one.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
It is. I keep wondering, does it mean, is it a cyclical thing? And then so once you reach this point, then you, because these tech companies don't innovate very fast, then all of a sudden you start to see a resurgence of these small companies again. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, you know, because we're looking at a snapshot in time where the cards have kind of fallen where they are.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
But the deck does get reshuffled from time to time. Well, you never know. That's my positive spin on it. We'll see. I do have a little PSA. We invite you to come listen to the show live and experience the full Coder Radio, and then you get a little taste of what you get becoming a member, too. So we tend to do it on Tuesdays at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
If you've got a podcasting 2.0 app, I mark it pending in your feed, and also we try to update it on the Jupiter Broadcasting Calendar. Again, I just want you to be informed. It is, after all, the Eagle of Knowledge. So let's talk about the Rails 8 solid trifecta, which, okay, I'm kind of making fun of the name, but actually seems pretty great.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
Here's the description that I found, and then, you know, I'll let you take it. The solid trifecta in Rails 8 simplifies development by using database adapters for tasks that have typically been handled by RAM-based solutions.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
reducing complexity and cost with the kind of conceit here being that when rails started most servers and most systems were running on spinning rust, but now we've got super fast, you know, MVMEs and you can have them in a, in a rate array that makes them crazy fast. We've got memory storage. And so the cost to save certain operations to disk is a lot lower. And with that being the reality,
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
I mean, you know, even go back to like, you know, 2013, 2014, 2015. It seemed like, oh, everybody who's cool is joining a startup and they're making like great money and they have great perks and they're getting some sort of vested schedule and they're going to have a ton of money when they cash out.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
They probably have their AirPods in when they're not even listening to stuff.
Coder Radio
604: The Startup Myth
And now it sort of seems like the trends have changed and that seemingly more and more folks are looking for safer alternatives like big tech jobs and kind of critiquing the overall startup world and what it is. It's like a vibe shift.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
This is GoToRadio, episode 588, recorded on September 17th, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show, taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the whole world of technology. My name is Chris, and joining us, ready to go, probably fully caffeinated, I don't know, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike. Misa, bye.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, Larry, you know, he continued. By the way, he's 80 years old. And in this finance call, he said every police officer is also going to get monitored by AI. So there's, you know, a little bit of a rough shot. And then he added… You're going to have AI drones replace police in high-speed pursuits. You'll just take a car to get followed by the drone system.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
How do you know if someone's telling you the truth? I mean, really, especially when it comes to content creators. I don't know about you, but recently I've become very aware of nearly all the information that we receive has either been spun in some gross way, curated, reduced down with certain facts omitted or other facts amplified for some agenda of which I'm usually completely unaware.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And it seems like especially during an election year here in the States, it's only getting worse everywhere. So realistically, how does one solve for that? I don't think it can be done with a central management plan. I think it's at the individual level. I think you have to be more active in selecting your information diet. And I think all of us have to do a little bit more work.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
We have to figure out the incentives of the people creating the content. In the mainstream media, it's the corporations that run all of it. In the independent content creator, it's who funds them. And for over a year, the Coder Program has been funded by our listeners, which makes us ferociously loyal to our listeners.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
The Coder Program tells you like it is in the world of technology, software development, small business, and all the things that get touched by that stuff. If you zoom out a bit, too... Protecting the environment that makes this possible, podcasting, is what the open podcasting 2.0 standards are about. It's what things like the boosts and memberships to podcasts directly are about.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It's about taking out the middleman. It's about realigning the incentives to something that you can trust based on the way it is because of how it is. It's fundamental to how the content is created. And I just can't express to you how important I think it is that we save and preserve this environment for podcasting.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And so your support directly either through Autopilot with our QA membership program or by sending a boost on your terms with the amount you like, it means a lot. It's not just one show, but we're really trying to change something for all of podcasting to preserve this medium so it can be this trustworthy medium like no other medium can be. It's a big goal.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
But we're getting there, and this show is proving it can be done. This show has transitioned to fully audience-funded, and that's really remarkable. So thank you for your support. If you're a member or if you've boosted before, we really appreciate it.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And if you haven't done it yet, consider either by going to coda.show slash membership or go get something like Fountain, which just keeps getting so good, Fountain.fm, or Cast-O-Matic, which is like the Cadillac. podcasting 2.0 app for iOS, and Podverse, which is working on an incredible rebuild, cross-platform and open source.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And there's so many other great apps, like True Fans and more, at podcastapps.com. Try one out or become a member and participate in actively selecting the media that you can trust versus the stuff that has incentives you don't even fully understand.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So I'm not sure what to make of this AI regulation bill that's just passed the California House and Senate and now it is sitting on Gavin Newsom, the governor's desk. He needs to sign it by the end of September. And there is a lot I want to cover in this because it does have some good in it, especially around whistleblower stuff and employees being able to speak out.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
But there's also just this complete whitewashing of all of the threats it seems to pertail for open source development. And the pro side is essentially lying about what the bill does to make their case. And Where better to get your tech advice than from an actor who played the Hulk?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Now, of course, his motivations are probably based around Hollywood's incentives to avoid AI replacing them. You know, it's funny, too, to hear somebody who's probably worth a couple million complain about the billionaires. There's also some irony there. Now, to zoom out a little bit,
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
At a high level, this regulation applies to huge models, massive models, which at present day prices would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to be able to manage and create. So we're talking initially about something that applies to massive scale operations. But, you know, you go ahead about 20 years or so and that's going to be, you know, fifteen thousand dollars.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So, of course, today it might take a ton of money, but to get to that compute in the future, it might, you know, it could be a lot less. And those numbers can always be changed. Things will be much cheaper in the future. There's also going to be new architectures and advances in chips that are going to result in the kind of compute power that they're trying to target at cheaper prices.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So I'm not a big fan of where they set the bar. But the claim that the regulation just makes it so they have to test is so far from the truth. So it's SB 1047 and Reason.com, which we'll link, does a rundown of how this impacts open source development.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And they write that it would disincentivize developers from open sourcing their models by mandating complex safety protocols and holding developers liable for harmful modifications and misuse by bad actors. Could you imagine if open source developers were held liable, first of all?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
The bill offers no concrete guidance on the types of features or guardrails that developers could build in to avoid liability at all. And it defines open source AI tools as, quote, artificial intelligence models that are made freely available. And the other thing that's incredible is the developers are held responsible for any derivatives of their model.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And that includes if somebody just straight up copies their model, doesn't make any changes and uses it for something bad like misinformation or domestic terrorism of some kind. So any derivative, any copies, any or anything like if they just took their model as it was. and integrated into a piece of software that was bad, the developer of that LLM would be held liable.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It would require open source developers to implement, quote, reasonable safeguards to prevent, quote, creation or use of chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons, or, quote, mass casualties of at least $500 million of damage resulting from cyber attacks. I mean, how you even measure 500 million damage from cyber attacks or any, quote, harms to public safety and security.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So essentially, it requires developers to build in censorship to their LLMs because you could harms public safety. It's pretty, pretty big area. That's pretty wide margin. The bill also mandates that open source developers take steps to prevent, quote, critical harms to just vague critical harms. They have to avoid they have to take steps to prevent critical harms.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
which seems like that's designed to be interpreted very broadly. Also, it imposes extensive reporting and auditing requirements on open source developers. Developers would have to identify, quote, specific tests and results that they're using to prevent critical harm and report that to the state.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
The bill would also require open source developers to submit an annual certification under penalty of perjury of compliance and self-report, quote, each artificial intelligence safety incident within 72 hours. My God, could you imagine? Put something out on the Internet, and if somebody looks something up and hurts themselves, and you hear about it, you have to report it within 72 hours.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Oh, man. This is really awful. As a dad, this is just really hard to hear.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And starting in 2028, developers of open source models would need to, quote, annually retain a third-party auditor to confirm compliance. Could you imagine an open source project having to retain an auditor?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, you're right. There is a business opportunity. Oh, yeah. And my last bit, developers would have to re-evaluate the, quote, procedures, policies, protections, capabilities, and safeguards implemented on an annual basis. That's bad. Not if you're a big company. That's fantastic. Right. These are just open source regulations. I just focused on the open source stuff.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
For sure. I think, and I hate to be cynical about this, but I've just watched all this play out, Mike. To me, it feels like it's truly about information control. They don't want anything that's open source and not under control of one of the big five to get traction.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
These are not insurmountable odds, but you're not going to have two founders that are visionary and passionate be able to make this happen. They're going to have to get funding. They're going to have to kind of become big tech. And then if they have anything that's good, they'll just get acquired.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Mac will hire the employees like we've seen or buy the whole company.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah. And so the people that are in favor and the people that are against it is interesting. So a lot of OpenAI staffers, well, like 120 of them, former and current staffers,
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
are in favor of this and i think they're in favor of this because like i mentioned at the top it does have some pretty strong ai whistleblower protections which we've seen a clear need for open ai managed to right at the beginning that up for everybody and make this something that has to be baked into everything thanks sam and so they like that but
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Anybody who really is kind of looking at a larger, higher level picture, I think, doesn't support it. And I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I agree with Nancy Pelosi and other California members of Congress. We should reject this bill just because of the way it impacts open source.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And additionally, I just don't want to see a situation where we have every individual state implement their own bespoke AI regulation to whatever nutter group that runs that state. That's going to be awful. And then if you do it in California, of course, it's going to be pretty impactful to the tech sector. And the ones that have money will just go somewhere else and develop it somewhere else.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, you know, yeah, I think exactly. It would slow down OpenAI. It would give him time to develop Grok and XAI.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, probably. You're right. Yeah, you're right. I hate to see this effort to – because it really – why all of these things? Here's my argument. Like why – Why burden the open source developers with all these requirements and all of these loopholes and all of this stuff?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Because do you really think that if something bad happened, like a national security incident happened because of an LLM, that we don't already have national security laws on the books that enable the government to do whatever is needed to stop that threat? Of course we have that. I mean, just during COVID, we saw the presidents, both of them,
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Constrict different corporations to build things under some law from World War Two.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Something like that. And my point is, is like if some open source. Thank you. Yes. There it is. If some open source LLM came along and it was spewing such dangerous information that the security of the state was at risk. I got to believe there's most likely laws on the books right now that they can address that threat with. So why burden open source with all of this?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, and you know, it's also another thing that's pointed to as COVID, you know, all the misinformation during COVID. But then when you kind of look back in totality, a lot of the misinformation came from the federal government. I'm not saying it was intentional, but I was like, it depends on which month you're looking at. What was the misinformation? Right. Exactly. Exactly.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It is interesting that misinformation is sort of accepted as such a significant threat.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Sure. Well, I mean, you want to know the original threat to democracy? Believing that JFK was assassinated and the federal government was involved. That sounds like you're some sort of insurrectionist to me. What a threat to democracy to believe that your own federal government murdered a sitting president.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So you could see how in modern day you could spin something like that, which was a common belief and a common thing that happened for a long time. And people still believe that. You could cherry pick any one particular issue and really spin it up as a massive threat to society.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, I don't think it's working as well as it did but then I go over to Mastodon and I see everybody panicking and I realize that's still pretty effective.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Hey, man, we're saving democracy. So let's talk about OpenAI's CEO, Mr. Altman. He has, quote-unquote, left – Champion mode all the time. He's left the safety committee, which that was created back in May. When that happened, we came on the show and we're like – How does the CEO sit on the safety board that's also supposed to be a check to the practices of the company he's a CEO of?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
How does that work? So now it's going to be chaired by Zico Kultler, the director of machine learning at Carnegie Mellon. And then we have a bunch of other members like Quora CEOs on there, retired U.S. Army generals on there. You'll love to know this. Former NSA chief Paul Natsak is on there. Natsak, I think, is his last name. NAK SAC, and a former Sony general counsel.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
A former Sony lawyer is also on the board. So there you go. That's the safety board.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Who's the academic? Oh, right. Carnegie Mellon. So the director. Okay. But you've got retired general, former NSA chief, and a Sony lawyer also on the board. Oh, okay. You know what's funny? Do you think any of them is under the age of 40? I would eat my hat if one of them was. Do you think any of them has ever spun up an open source LLM on their own local workstation? I mean, it's possible.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Maybe the NSA chief has. Maybe. Wouldn't it be something if the people that made these decisions understood the tooling? No, you can't have that. Actually used it? You cannot have that. Yeah. So just as a recap, just as a recap, in the last week, since Coder got together, they have some kind of reasoning model they're talking about. It's, you know, using reasoning.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
They're trying to raise a round of funding at $150 billion valuation. They think they're worth $150 billion. They're considering restructuring once again and getting rid of the nonprofit altogether. And now their just announced safety committee has been reformulated once again. And it will have the power to delay models. Will it? So that's where we're at right now. Will it? That's what they say.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
That's what they say. You know, it's I don't know. I think they should. If I were them, I would delay the next one. It's it'd be brilliant, Mike, because it's not ready. It's not going to be that good. So delay it and give them time to make it better. And what is the message when the safety committee says this is too dangerous? A.K.A. It's good. It does stuff.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I would 100% think that's what they're doing. I really do. I think they pretend all this safety stuff, not only is it to get their moat, but it also serves as reverse psychology marketing to tell you what we're working on is so advanced that we have to be humble about it, that we have to be careful about it, and we have to take safety so seriously.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yes. Of course. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I think that's what's going on.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
That's just the way it is. Microsoft has sat down. They met with their very important security vendors. You know, it's a big club. And you're not in it, including CrowdStrike. We talked about this recently. And they've come away with some decisions about how they're going to improve security and prevent failures on Windows.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So really, access to the Windows kernel has been a hot topic since the whole CrowdStrike thing took out 8.5 million. Oh, it's interesting. The number's down now. 8.5 million Windows PCs. So Microsoft released a blog post and they talked about how the little powwow went. And, well, this is their language. They, quote, looked at longer-term steps.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And those longer-term steps include developing new security capabilities that let stuff run outside the kernel but still get kernel-like access. They say, quote, both our customers and our ecosystem partners have called on Microsoft to provide additional security capabilities outside the kernel mode, which, along with SDP, can be used to create highly available security solutions.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So in other words, if I were to interpret this, I think they're going to create kind of like Linux's eBPF solution where there's like a little micro VM that very basic simple code can get executed inside the kernel. And if it crashes, just the VM goes out, not the whole kernel.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You know, so The Verge writes, while Microsoft isn't directly saying it's going to close off access to the Windows kernel, it's clearly at the early stages of designing a security platform that can eventually move CrowdStrike and others out of the kernel. You know, so what it means is for current Windows users... You get nothing. Nothing's better. Nothing changes after this.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
They've came together. They had their powwow. And literally nothing is going to be improved for current Windows users. For future Windows users, Microsoft's going to have, you know, some kind of little micro VM or something. It's just a guess of mine. They're not actually doing anything to address the fact that Windows boot is extremely brittle.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And all they're doing is super engineering for one particular failure scenario. not taking care of the bigger problem.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So the next failure, it might not be this particular issue, but the next failure will just take Windows out during the boot process, just like the CrowdStrike problem did, and you're all going to have to go out there and touch each individual machine because they've solved nothing about that actual problem. There's no improvement in how Windows could maybe...
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You know, boot from a previous shadow copy, detect that it's blue screen two or three times in a row, disable stuff and go into safe mode. Nothing like that.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Oh, the podcasting 2.0 consultant is our baller booster this week. Alex Gates comes in with 50,000 sats. So he writes, and I heard this from a couple other people, Pixel Buds Pro have conversation detection, and it's fantastic. I use them every day with Giraffine OS. I have Pixel Buds Pro. I think there's only Pixel Buds Pro.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I have the first ones, and they do noise canceling, but I have never had them detect a conversation and unsilence. And I went into the Pixel Buds Pro app, and I see no setting for that, and yet multiple people have told me this is a feature of the product of which I already own, and yet I cannot make it work. I am considering... I really... I don't know.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You know, this happens every time I, I had this moment today that it really, I'm still kind of, I'm still sort of processing. And I looked at, I looked at my photo library and I realized since I've switched to Android, I kind of stopped taking pictures. And, you know, that really hits when I look at, like, all these pictures of my kids and all these pictures I've taken with the iPhone.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And then I get to the Pixel and it's like every three or four weeks there's a picture or two in there where there used to be one, like, from almost every day. And I then remembered that's the same exact thing that happened last time I switched to Android because the goddamn camera app is so laggy. It just compared to the iPhone.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It feels like the iPhone is a hardware camera and the pixel feels like a crappy third party software app that isn't even using like, you know, hardware accelerated features. And it's slow. Editing photos is slow and the phone gets hot. And then, you know, I've implemented my own backup solution. So then like every photo takes up disk space.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Moving on, though. He says, I use Podman every day inside WSL2, and it works great. I heard that from a couple other folks, Mike. I know you were having some strugs, though, with WSL as the week went on.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, we've had some incidences in my kid's social group where – Somebody makes a stupid comment in like a group chat, and one of the kids in that group chat reports it to a parent. The parent reports it to the school, and then the next thing you know, it's a whole incident, and that kid didn't expect that.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
That's a great quote right there. All right. So he also goes to ask if we have ever heard about DuckDB or Splink. He says, I use them in large government record linkage projects. DuckDB is amazing. I don't know about you, Mike. I've heard of DuckDB only from the audience and I've heard very good things. It's an open source column oriented relational database. Relational. But I've never used it.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Never had any need for it. But it feels like one that maybe you should have in the quiver of open source projects that you may call upon one day. You never know.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, that is a good one. That is a good one. Thank you, Alex. It is nice to hear from you, and thank you for being our baller. Tomato comes in with 20,425 sats. I'm catching up on some podcasts I missed over the summer. I just want to send some value your way. Oh, thank you. That was a... Yes.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Spaceballs boost. Traveling with electronics. I'm able to get away with it a lot, actually, including bringing a breadboard project and SDR radio gear with me. My secret is keeping my business card on me and identifying myself as an electronics engineer. Ah. So you probably also have to say it with some confidence. Oh, yeah. Here's my business card. I'm an electronics engineer.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Am I the first one to boost in for small talk as the show's official language? Small talk. He says talk small and carry a big class library.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, it's going to take a little bit more of a boost than that to get Smalltalk the official language.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It's true. It's a big industry. But, you know, Smalltalk would be pretty special. That'd be fun if we could wear that badge.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
He just thought he was – he was saying the forbidden thing, which is so funny when you're a kid.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Cultivator comes in with 2,000 sats. Florida trip. This ought to cover the tax on a cup of coffee. But maybe Bitcoin will rip one day. Fingers crossed. You know, I'd love to get out there. I want to go to Jupiter, Florida. Right. I mean, that's the namesake. I want to do a show in Jupiter, Florida. That's probably that's probably pretty far from you, isn't it?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It's long. Yeah. So long. God. And I hate that about California. You know, so you've got like that same thing going on. It takes forever.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I just thought maybe once you took out all the driving around water, it's not that big. The actual usable land.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Ah. The immunologist comes in with a Jar Jar Boost, 5,000 sats. You're so boost. This is a plus one for R. I'm still using my iPhone 8 in 2024. I get battery changes every two to three years. iPhone 8?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
But you're not getting OS updates, right? So, like, how are you even installing apps anymore? Because, you know, they're super brutal about that. He says, maybe because I don't work in tech and I don't do a lot of photos, but this iPhone has everything I need. USB-C would be great, though, but not worth the tradeoff of a phone not fitting comfortably into my pocket. Yes. There is that. I know.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I look at the new phones and I'm like, they're just too damn big. Damn it. Give me something the size of the SE. I'll trade battery and put everything else in there. That's all I'm asking for. He says also he really enjoyed the R song. Bud comes in with a Jar Jar Boost as well. 5,000 sats. Use a boost. I've been using my Pixel Buds Pro since they came out.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
They've had conversation detection for a bit. It lets you tap on the Bud once to cancel it if it's triggered by accident. I don't know. I can turn it on and I can turn it off, but I have never had it automatically detect a conversation and turn itself off. It's the most frustrating thing. I would very much appreciate that feature. And then one last boost to round us all out.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Jen from Matik comes in with 2,000 cents. About the subject on a phone listening to your conversations, I can share a really good breakthrough of how it really works once and for all so people stop believing misinformation. It's a French YouTuber. I can put some subtitles in there for English so you can enjoy it. All our phones are listening devices. Spoiler alert.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
No, it's correlation through metadata and more. And he links us to a YouTube video, which I'll put in the show.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah. It's actually the fact that they can figure you out without having to listen to you, which I think is creepier. It'd be actually better if they were just listening to you, transmitting that up to some server and then, you know. Yeah, just like hard searching on the words you said. I guess deriving text and intent. Right. Yeah.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
That would be more like direct and gross where this instead is just a network of monitoring you where they've actually figured you out over the years.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah. So. You know, I have gotten that sense myself. First of all, I think I see a certain set of suggestions on the TV versus what I see on the desktop. Yeah, it's the television in the home office. And then I've had really bad insomnia like this entire year. Tell me about it.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I have been watching a lot of long form kind of relaxing content at night, you know, and after it gets to be about midnight or so, when I open up the YouTube app, all of my suggestions shift and it's stuff that's multi hours long. And it's, it's like a couple of themes. And one of them is like old art bell shows, because honestly, I just like listening to a professional.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And then the other one is long, boring, boring, Pandantic analysis about Star Trek things for like four hours. And I just started surfacing all of those late in the night. And then during the day, I don't see those ever suggested at all. I feel like we're going to need some links on the ladder there. Yeah.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, just search for Star Trek stuff late at night for about six months in a row, and there you go. Problem solved. All right, that wraps up the boosts. Thank you, everybody. We had 18 folks that streamed those sats through the streamers. We stacked 24,586 sats altogether, and we had nine boosters who... Through them, plus the streamers, brought us a total of 110,221 sets.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Not a banger episode for us. But we appreciate the messages and the support. Thank you, everybody. If you'd like to boost the show, go get a new podcast app at newpodcastapps.com or really take the plunge and go get Fountain FM and let it spin up a Nostra identity for you as well so you can just start playing in that entire ecosystem when you want and you can take that identity anywhere with you.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Now, serious question. Does this set the context for some of the comments from Larry Ellison last week about his omnipresent AI cameras that will ensure good behavior?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Shout out to all our boosters. We appreciate you. Boost! Okay, so as we wrap up, Early analysis is not looking so good for the iPhone 16, and I want to get your thoughts. Because I think it's actually a pretty good device. The iPhone 16, the base model, I think is one of the best base models they've had yet. The Pro and the Pro Max look really nice with a lot of RAM, really nice battery.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And the first weekend pre-orders seem to really have sucked. Down year over year by 37 million units, like one of their worst years ever potentially. What do you think this is? OK, disclaimer, it could be that Apple just ordered a ton up front and so there's just a ton of inventory. Nope. But it's also more likely that the pre-orders are down because this is all coming from supply chain analysis.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So I think a lot of the new is the Apple intelligence stuff and that hasn't shipped. You know, if you get an iPhone 16 right now, there's no Apple intelligence on there. So why not wait till the Apple intelligence OS update ships and there's, you know, iOS 18.5 or not one or whatever it's going to be. Probably not one is baked into the image on the phone and just buy that one.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And you don't have to preorder. You can just get it. So I'm not too surprised. I think if you look at the probably whole year release cycle, I bet you this is going to be a pretty good seller. But people are feeling tight right now. You know, I saw a comment on 9to5Mac, I think. And it was, I'm still using the iPhone 12 mini. I'd sure enjoy a new iPhone, pro or not, but it's just so much money.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And since I'm 41 and I don't really care much about unique emojis and I'm not really generating any imagery without making it myself, and I'm plenty capable of writing and editing my own personal or business emails myself, I'd rather just have other things that the $1,300 gets me When my iPhone still does what I need it to do.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I guess. Yeah, it's like everything besides a phone that's working for you, right?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Now, Jar Jar, can you put Mike on, because I've got a question for him. Okay, but Mike's a little sad. Oh, what happened?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, here's my question to the audience. First of all, what does it take for you to get a new phone? Is it just simply your current phone gives out, can't replace the battery, you break it? Because here's my theory. iPhone 17 release window, which I don't even think they're going to call it the iPhone 17. But I think next year, because of this problem...
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
They're going to introduce the foldable iPhone. You know they've been working on one. They might not call it an iPhone 17. They might just start the foldable generation off with its own number series. But you're going to see the iPhone foldable announced.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And I'm going to go out on a limb and say, you know, they've been working on it for five years and it's probably going to be the best foldable device out there. Would you get one of those?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So tell me what you think, audience. And if you've had a foldable, I'd also like to hear from you because maybe you've got experience that would tell us otherwise. But I think that would juice sales. The problem is it's going to be like $1,500. I was going to say, is that two grand? And what is it going to do? Run iPad apps?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Anybody that has any insights on a foldable iPhone and how it would work, boost it and tell us that as well. Because there are no iPad apps. Oh! All right, Mr. Dominic, is there anywhere you want to send the good people throughout the week?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Oh, yeah, thanks. LinuxUnplugged.com. You can find some Wes Payne over there, too. Go get some Wes Payne. If you create yourself a Nostra identity and you're looking for somebody to follow, you can follow me over at chrislast.com. I am on the Weapon X as well. Mostly don't tweet much, but I do respond to replies. And I post about live shows.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Chris LAS over on Weapon X. And there's also the Coder Radio Show, I suppose, at Coder Radio Show. The way to really do it is join our chat room. That's where it's at, coder.show slash matrix. There's people going in there right now during the live show. They're banging, suggesting, helping us title it. And we do this here show live.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You can find the live time and date at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. I think we're going to need to, no, I'll be doing it next Tuesday. It'll be regular. I figured it all out. So we'll be live at our regular time, noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern, Tuesdays, jblive.tv. All right, that's it. Links to everything we talked about at coder.show slash 5888. Thanks for joining us.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It generally was – it didn't even really get to punches or anything. It was like one or two punches. Yeah, most was like a shove.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, there's probably not going to be a lot of sympathy there. There's going to be no mercy. So – and I think the problem, which the show is not really probably going to be able to get to, but the core of it is like so many other problems in society –
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Multifaceted extremely massively huge you know it you mentioned social media it obviously does play a factor when when social media first came along you had people that would behave one way on social media and then they would behave absolutely in real life in fact you'd even say like you'd never have that argument in real life these days people behave in real life like they behave in social media the two have blurred the lines for some folks.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So if they get radicalized in social media, they're radical in real life. Also, I think you have a very litigious society. So the schools, the whole structures around it are everybody's trying to avoid lawsuits. And I think that adds to a lot of this hyper, hyper response. And then obviously, I could list 10 other things, but somewhere in that list,
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
The typical family structure has been pretty weakened and, you know, typical being whatever your definition of that is. But even the very best parent or set of parents, even the ones that are trying to be the most attentive, are extremely, extremely busy.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It's an interesting and I wonder if not a knock on effect, a bit of inflation and the state of the economy for the middle class for the last couple of years. Since COVID, people are so, so busy. I've seen it reflected in... I just don't really see my family at all anymore. Most of our family events have kind of fallen apart, and nobody has the energy, the will, or the time to reorganize.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And even if one person in the family did, nobody else in the family has the time, energy, or will to participate. And it's just sort of been this massive tax because everyone is so busy. So we've had this huge time tax, probably because... You know, we work for money and that money does less.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So when we work, we store our time and energy in the money and then we buy goods and services with that money without having to do those goods and services directly. But now those goods and services we're getting less and less for. So we have to work harder and do more. That's part of it for sure. But, you know, there's just a lot going on in society. Lots being thrown at us in modern days.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And I think all of this is such a huge, massive, unsolvable problem. It's a train that only goes in one direction. That you see people get hyperbolic and you see opportunities for salesmen like Larry Ellison from Oracle coming and say, let me sell you an AI surveillance system.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
On Thursday, during a Q&A in their quarterly call, he said, quote, citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on. That's ridiculous.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, I know. Talk about taking advantage of the worst of society.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You're right. It is that same logic. It's the opposite side of that same logic. That's a great insight. Right.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And here's where I think – he also, by the way, he continued to say, quote, we're going to have supervision. Maybe not immediately. You don't have these cameras on every corner like we're London.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
But to your point at the start of the show, couldn't you see a compelling argument for classes and schools where you could observe student behavior and try to pre-crime out somebody who's – I'm not saying this actually would work, but I'm saying that's how they would sell it. Try to pre-crime out a kid who's maybe doing something that looks a little destructive and dangerous.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And maybe on top of this, you're monitoring messages. Maybe parents, you're encouraged to install an app on their phone so that way you can scan their photos and messages for you and participate in the system and feed the network. Make your kids safe. Think of the children.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, but now you can do it with a nice little AI summary report on each student. And then, you know, what if if the student participates in the program via the parents permission? What if on the report cards you got like a little summary as the parent? You get like a little, you know, like you get a credit score on your credit bill, your credit card bill.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
What if you got like a student behavior score as determined?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, no. They would AI-ify the report and they would have like these categories where the AI observed. We recommend you work with your student in this area. And the whole thing would be bogus, but it would just be more stuff that the school can claim they're providing. The value, quote-unquote. I mean, the more I think about it, it's just what a boondoggle.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
This is Coda Radio, episode 600 for December 17th, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupiter Broadcasting's weekly talk show, taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and crushing 600 episodes, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know, an example of something that is a love-hate relationship for me is HedgeDoc. Fantastic real-time collaborative markdown editor. And sometimes I get logged out and I lose five minutes of work.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And the very fact that I have to authenticate before I can even use my application and often that authentication process also requires me to go fetch my phone like a good little boy so I can two-factor even though I don't give a crap.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And it's like, I just want to open up my text editor and just start typing.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know, I'm literally going live and I'm trying to get signed into a web app that I need to use to do the live show. And because I'm recording, I don't bring my phone into the studio. So I leave it at my desk upstairs and I got it's almost once a day. I'm about to do something on the stream or something and I have to go fetch the phone. And then I have to say yes.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I just have to go say yes on the phone. I was never asked if I wanted to confirm a login for this service. And I just think there's so much friction. Plus, then if you're ever, you know, maybe you're not a baller like Mike. If you're like me and maybe you're spending the evening on LTE, it just multiplies all of the little bit of friction and problems that you have with these web apps.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And I was told, and you remember, I was told by the audience that these are going to get better. There's going to be things like WebAssembly. And here we are in 2024, Mike, and I'm not seeing it. I mean, these Electron apps, they're better than when they started, but they're still all the same complaints.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, that's... All right. Coder.show slash membership. Go put your support on autopilot.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And as a thank you, we've got the raw bootleg version of the show with lots of extra clips and our post-show commentary, sometimes a bit spicy, but it's available for you that like a little bit longer Coder Radio and want some extended coverage with a little additional context around usually what we discuss in each episode.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I've put together the bootleg version, the full live version from the moment the stream goes live to the moment the stream ends. It is now available for our members on demand. One of several perks of the Coder Radio membership program, including not hearing these ads.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So support us at coder.show slash membership for that or support us at your own speed, at your own initiative, at your own inclination, at the own amount you want, when you want about anything you'd like to tell us about. That's where the boosts come in. Just grab something like the Fountain app and strike and top off Fountain and send it a boost. Lots of great ways to do it, though.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Podcastapps.com for a selection of those. If you send us a boost above 2,000 sats, we'll read it on the show. It's just a great way to support the show and support each individual production, each individual episode. Either way, we thank you. And also, just a big thank you for listening.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's a pretty big moment to get to 600, so I'll just take a second here to say, just in general, thanks for listening. Let's shift to something that was also kind of controversial on the show and something that I think maybe lost us some audience, actually. And maybe some of them come back. I don't know. And, you know, they're not doing much right now.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Oh, my. What are you going to use that for? What are you doing over there? Running a data center? See, the questions. Just to hurt me. Just to hurt me is what you're doing.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Oh, you may recall if you've been listening to the show for a while. A few years ago, we started talking about how the tech economy was drunk on the punch bowl of easy money. And we started talking about this early in 2022. And we would put little nuggets out there. In episode 467, we got an email from a listener. And they asked us to just kind of put it all together in one cohesive package.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And so I want to play this clip for you because I think it's fascinating looking back at this now. 2022, solidly a couple of years ago. It was kind of before things like inflation had really taken off, before we had like the tech layoff tracker website. This was actually before the Fed had even begun to hike rates.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Like I'm tearing up over here. It sounds like an unbelievable time where money was free and people had jobs. And so for one last time, we go back now to May 25th, 2022, episode 467.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, Brandon writes in. Hi, Chris and Mike. So the economic realignment, as you guys have put it, seems to be starting. My company just laid off 20% of its workforce. I'm fine. But I'm starting to wonder more about the drivers behind the current market conditions. Would you consider doing a show that details what's happening and how it's affecting the tech industry?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I know this might be more of an unfiltered topic. I understand. I just was trying to better understand what's going on and how it's affecting me as a software engineer and our industry. Keep up the good work.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, tech's going to take this one hard. Harder than most, I think, actually. Yes. And that wasn't the case in the 2008 recession. And so what Mike is saying is that when the Fed dropped the interest rates, they made the price of money to the banks essentially free. And so the way money gets created in the U.S. economy – this is a broad statement. It's not the only way.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
But one of the common ways money gets created in the U.S. economy is when banks loan it out. That money is created at that point. And so when the price for the banks is low, they're loaning out money like crazy. And the closer you are to that spigot, the more direct access you get to that cheap money. And then you need to put that somewhere.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Risky assets like crypto and tech stocks have been where this stuff has gone and VCs. That's where this money went because it was great returns. You look at the returns over 2020 and 2021. It's brilliant. But now all of that is crashing back. It's all resetting. The stock in all these companies is taking a hit. You've heard about the layoffs at Netflix.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Amazon just announced they're going to lay off 100,000 workers. They also just announced they have 10 million, I guess it's square feet, I'm not sure, of extra warehouse that they don't need anymore because the surge in buying during the pandemic has ended. And now they have a bunch of warehouse real estate they don't need.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, and things are just in general getting more expensive for everyone. All these companies are affected by the price of fuel, diesel in particular. So that's also an issue. Even if your company doesn't deal and ship things directly, it still works with companies that do.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So there's a lot less money being spent on risky assets now, which means tech companies are going to have a lot less money flowing into them. Of course, we're not going to see Apple or Amazon or Microsoft or Google fail.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And what is going on here is the Federal Reserve. I mean, I don't know S about F, but the Federal Reserve is on a mission to get inflation rates down. They're at a 40-year high right now. And the goal here, their mission, as they have stated publicly, is to get those rates down. They have a target of 2%.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And the official numbers are like around 8% right now, and the real inflation rate is probably even higher than that. They're never going to get it to 2%, but that's their goal.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
They also kind of need the employment market to cool down because that cools down consumer demand. And that will also help with inflation. Right. When you reduce demand, it also helps ease inflation. Now, the thing that they're up against is there's also extremely high oil prices right now, which raises the base inflation rate. And there is also a very screwed up supply chain.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So it keeps things scarce. So even though they can reduce demand by cooling the market, They can't really compensate for the fact that the supply chain is still creating scarcity. So what we may end up into is a prolonged period of higher than they'd like inflation.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And one of the ways they're going to combat that is they're going to drive down the price of assets, which has a knock on effect in the tech industry in a big way. And they're going to do that until something breaks. Either the credit market's going to break or the oil market's going to break or something's going to break. And then once that thing breaks, they'll change course.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
They'll probably either freeze the interest rates or promise to lower them in the future. And they'll probably turn the money printing back on, which also then will start flowing back into assets. And then the tech industry will begin to recover.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we're kind of on the other end. We didn't, I think at that point in time, see some of the AI hype. I think that kept some of the tech companies healthier, but we knew those big ones would be okay anyways. Here we are. Inflation's at 2.7 percent.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know, and I think somebody listening, they could have made some money. Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's interesting to see it kind of turn around, although it's not 100%. Things are still a little shaky, but it definitely seems like asset prices are back up. Bitcoin went through like an 18-month bear market or something. It went through whatever it was. It was like one of its longest bear market periods in history. Yep. Yep. The advertising market still hasn't rebounded.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So some areas haven't recovered, but some areas have, and helped by some of the AI hype as well.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
including open source models, Flutter and React Mobile Development. They do it all 100% open source. They build Flutter and React apps for companies big and small. I mean, I'm talking like Fortune 500 companies or startups that are just getting their first project off the ground. Mission Control loves new ideas, loves building prototypes. If it's an app, maybe it's an AI project.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
They build super fast and super efficiently. That's what they do. Mission Control is always around to chat about anything from apps to distros and open source. They're Coda Radio listeners. That's why they're sponsoring the show, and they'd love to hear from you. So go drop them a line. Go to mcntrl.com. Kick around a new idea. Maybe work with them for a new project, big or small.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Mission Control is where you want to go. mcntrl.com. And a big thank you to Mission Control for sponsoring this. Episode 600 of the Coder Radio Program. That's mcntrl.com. Mission Control. So now bringing us back to the present, seems like the AI features that are shipping in smartphones are not hitting the mark. And we have some data for Samsung and iPhone users.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Overall, this is a survey that was conducted by CellCell, so CellCells. In other words, you know, sell your cell phone. It shows that nearly half of iPhone users consider the AI features very or somewhat important when purchasing a smartphone, but they believe that the current AI features offer little value. They care more, iPhone users care more about onboard AI features than Samsung users.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
47.6% of iPhone users surveyed. Versus 23.7% of Samsung users said it impacted their decision when choosing a new phone. 73% of the Apple users who have tried Apple intelligence say it adds, quote, little to no value to their experience. Although Samsung's, you know, Samsung's users say 87% of the Samsung users surveyed, 87%. See little to no value in Samsung's AI features.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
They claim to be, you know, this is what they do as business intelligence for the cell phone industry. So this is sort of their market.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know, I was just helping a neighbor who got a new PC and not only did it had Norton, but it also had the built-in Windows one. And then it had some sort of other app that is a security app. And it's like, so it's maybe three different types of anti-malware applications.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
See, this is the thing that seems to be the most polarizing. People either love it or they think it's laughable.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So when they were surveyed, it seemed like most people liked the writing tools. Then the second most liked thing was notification summaries and priority messages.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Or you could highlight it and say, hey, make this sound a little more professional or nicer because I was grumpy when I wrote this. They can sometimes do that.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Some of the things that I think are neat is like the stuff you can do in photos where you can take a photo bomber out of the back of a picture or clean something up and – or you can take a – you can add – swap – like the AI photo editing stuff has been some of the more compelling features ever. For me, and yet it's like almost bottom of the list for the users that were surveyed.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
All right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe if I hadn't sent them to everybody.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Oh, I DM'd RFK Jr. and sent him the photos, and I think he made a few calls.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
There you go. All right, well, boost it and tell me where you find yourself using these AI tools, be it ChatGipity or Gemini or... Claude's keys or llama or whatever it is.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
In my opinion, the real heavyweight fight right now is between custom GPTs and Claude. Oh, my God. You're such a Claude stan. Oh, it's good. It's good. But custom GPTs are great. So I'm on the custom GPT bandwagon right now over at OpenAI. My question to you, though, audience, Boost and Intellis, celebrate 600 with a boost and tell us, what are you using these tools for?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
The average users, cell phone users, it was writing tools, helping them write better emails. And then, of course, it was notification summary. I'm a weirdo. Like, I'll tell you what I used it for. So I made a custom GPT. for the Coder Radio RSS feed. Did you really? I did. It's really easy to do. Wow, okay.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So I downloaded the RSS feed, you know, it's just an XML file, and I go in to create a custom GPT, and I explain what I'm trying to do, and then I'm going to upload an XML file which represents an RSS feed for a podcast, and then I'm going to ask you questions. And so that's how I found our quotes, is I asked it some of the episodes where we talked about this,
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And then I got that information from the RSS feed, and Podverse has a fantastic web player. So I go over to Podverse and I can search up the Coder Radio program and it shows all the chapters. And I just go right to the chapter. Boom.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Isn't that what you would make Notebook LM say? Wouldn't you just put this in the script? I think you would.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I mean, God bless Mission Control, but they're just listeners of the show.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Speaking of control, let's do some boosts. Where people control their own destinies. And we got some nice episode 600 boosts, so this will be fun. And you know what? Look who's there at the top of the list there. It's our old buddy, our podcast with 360,000 sad fights. Jesus. All right. Thank you, our podcast. He writes a massive congratulations on episode 600.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Without Coder Radio, there's simply no way I could fill my appetite for development rants. Hello, Swift. No one else cuts through the tech press. and the AI fluff like you guys. Here's to 600 more.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
She wants to know, for this, you must... It's funny that they get suspicious. They have a product, they offer it, but then they're suspicious when the customer wants it. That's hilarious to me.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Thank you, our podcast. It is good to hear from you. Our next booster is User45380136. You can't decide your They sent in 45,000 sets. I hoard that which your kind covet. Thank you. And they write a very Merry Christmas and a happy episode 600 to my two favorite cranky senior devs. Cranky? Yeah. A toast to the top to the two of you. Thanks for keeping me company on my commute this year.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I'm a new long form and the new long form members feed is awesome. Thank you, Chris, for setting that up. Oh, cheers. You're welcome. Glad you're liking it. Thanks for the feedback. You know what's more awesome? Robes. Oh my gosh.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know, I had to like carefully avoid robe mentions when I was going through the back catalog because it just triggers me.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Old Uncle Cook's working hard to get in good with everybody in Florida, isn't he? Well, we were at Mar-a-Lago.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
He says, I love the new members stream. I'm getting further insight to the show's topic. It really completes the podcast experience. Thank you, Nostoramo. Yeah, so the idea in the members pre-stream is I just try to play current event clips that might add a little bit more color or context to some of the things that Mike and I mentioned in the show.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, I'm a little cray-cray. Or I am. I don't know. It's one of us. And I really don't know which one. Koss Peeling comes in with 2,100 sats. The traders love the vol. No message, just sending us some value. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Koss. Nice to hear from you. DG at PTC comes in with a Jar Jar boost. That's 5,000 sats. Use a boost.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
If Chad GPT were really Skynet, then don't you think it would have helped Altman figure out which party was going to win in November?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You got it. Thank you very much for the boost, DG. It's nice to hear from you. And you're right. Mr. Dominic was able to figure it out in 2022.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Lego feet comes in with 10,000 sats. Oh my God, this drawer is filled with Froot Loops. Cleaning out the sats from my old phone. Now that I'm living the graphing, I'm sorry, giraffe-ing OS lifestyle. I really like it. The only difficulty is MS Intune for work.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Also, you know, let us know how it goes with MS Intune. There's got to be a way. There's got to be. Yeah, the way is get something else, but yeah. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. User 37 came in with 6,000 sats. Long-time listener since 2016. First-time booster. Hey-o! Nice. Well done. So user 37, go in Fountain and set up a profile and let us know who you are.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's great to hear from a long-timer, though, and thanks for taking the arduous trek to get those boosts back.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yes, they still have to create an account at Fountain and set up a profile name, but you can boost from Fountain's website. Or, you know, you can use other apps. Fountain just makes it the easiest. That's why it's so popular. But there's other apps. It's an open standard and there's, you know, podcastapps.com. There's like a dozen over there. There you go.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So whoever emailed me that, there's your answer. There you go. I recommend Mountain Fountain just because they do make it so straightforward. But if you are a self-hosted kind of maniac type person, there are lots of options where you could do it fully self-hosted too. Podcastapps.com for that. And great. Thank you very much. And great boost. Thank you for setting up the boosting.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Hope to hear from you soon. Marshall Miller comes in with 9,000. One sats. It's over 9,000. You guys had a question about how long the episode should be. I'd shoot for an hour. I'm a CS professor at community college, and I recommend the show to all my students. Well, that's great.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Keeps them up to date on what is happening in a variety of languages and gets them in the habit of paying attention to the industry as a whole. Thanks for all you do. Well, shout out to the students out there.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know the SEO is going to be horrible. Yeah. And they boosted from the Podcast Index. So there you go. They didn't use Fountain. They sent it from the PodcastIndex.org. Thank you for the boost. Mr. Borkander comes in with 10,000 sets. Borkander, huh? All right. This is the way. This is the way. He says, Bork. Sorry. I actually meant boost. Boost. That's a quality boost. Thank you, Borkander.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I appreciate that. Oh, and they actually sent in another 5,000 sets. Look at you being super generous. That's not possible. Nothing can do that. You can send two boosts. Thank you, guys. Thank you. And our last one this week comes in from User34, who sends in 10,000 sets.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Where are you? I never play that one. I just love that one. User 34 says, great show. What's that? Thank you. That's Data from Star Trek Generations. No. Really? Yeah, he's feeling real good. He's got the emotion chip. Oh, wow. His buddy's safe. He's feeling good. No spoilers. No spoilers.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, and also, of course, a shout out to Mr. Wes Payne, who's not only stepped into the hosting role from time to time, but always been a very helpful presence behind the scenes for the show, too. So shout out to Mr. Wes.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Thank you, User34, if you want to set your profile name. By the way, I have mentioned to the Fountain folks that we are getting a lot of people that boost in and they haven't set their profile name. So I think that workflow has just gotten a little bit of a refresh. Oh, nice.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And the boost UI has just gotten a little bit of a refresh to make it quicker and a little bit easier to understand what you're sending and how much and all of that. So it's just been streamlined over there. They just have that new release come out. So it's quite the pleasant experience. We're getting better every month, really. Thank you, everybody who supported episode 600.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And of course, thank you to our members. We had 25 of you stream sats as you listened. So we stacked 20,604 sats with your help. Thank you, streamers over there. When you combine that with all of you that boosted in, well, we had a very healthy, especially thanks to our podcast, Mr. Eric. We had a very healthy 502,705 sats. Big thank you to our ballers. Cheers, guys.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
We really made that a special one. We appreciate you very much. You now go down in history as our supporters for episode 600 of the Coder Radio Podcast. If you'd like to get started, I have links in the show notes.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
The top two links are really all you need to get started to boost in, or you can put your support on autopilot and get the new extended version of the show at coder.show slash membership. Before we run, I wanted to mention something that I've just been looking for an excuse to tell the audience about because it's kind of adorable.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Microsoft has a Python tool that converts all kinds of Microsoft Office documents into clean, readable markdown. It's the Mark It Down library. There's also a nice website built around this already. And it presently supports PDF files, PowerPoints, docx files, xlx files, images, including like their XF data.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So you can drop an image and it'll mark down up their XF metadata and it can try to OCR the text. It can also try to do the same for audio files. So if there's metadata in the audio file and it will try to transcribe it and then make markdown of it.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It'll do the same for HTML with special handling around Wikipedia and other various text-based formats you can drop in there, CSV, JSON, XML, and it generates markdown. And if you have a bunch of files, you can put them in a zip file. You can upload the zip file and it will iterate over the contents and convert each file in the zip file to markdown. Clean, nice, readable markdown.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Isn't this neat? Python tool built by Microsoft. Yeah. I know. I sent it to you. Oh, you did?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Sure. Right. Why not? What a great little thing just to have them sit there and... Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And I get sent by the external world. I get sent a lot of Excel files, Word files, PDFs. And for long-term storage, I think I'd prefer to store them in Markdown than the actual Word document.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know, I also have to say, of course, the silent partner behind the show, of course, big shout out to editor Drew as well. Drew's the man. Yeah. Always, always the MVP. I always appreciate Drew very much. So, by the way, just a little public service announcement. We are taking next week off because it is Christmas week.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I kind of feel like a Markdown hipster all of a sudden because we've been using Markdown for a decade. Or whatever. Right. It's been around since basically recently. I mean, I can't even even since we've been using Google Docs, we were writing Google Docs in Markdown. Yeah. I think that's the beginning of the show. I don't know if it's been around. It's been around almost that long. Crazy.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I mean, it's just wild. Wild as the Markdown really just become this universal standard all over.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, and it sounded like – I don't know if I was seeing this on Weapon X or what, but one of the folks at Microsoft was saying we want to make it crazy easy for people to extract information from Office documents and feed it into an LLM. So there's always an AI angle on this stuff too, of course.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So where should we send the good folks? And remind them that we're taking next week off, so don't panic when you don't see an episode. So between now and next time we get together, where should they go?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I'm going to say, you know, we made a Star Trek Generations mention earlier. That's kind of a Christmas Star Trek episode.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah. Picard's a whole Nexus experience. So no spoilers. But, you know, if you want to watch a little Christmas Star Trek movie, Star Trek Generations could be one for the holidays.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You're probably right. All right, well, thank you, Mr. Dominic, for all of the hard work.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Congratulations on 600 episodes, and thank you to everybody listening who's slugged it out with us for a while or just joined recently.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, that's true for all of us. All right, well, you can find me, Chris Elias, on Weapon X. The show is at Coder Radio Show. Links to some of the stuff we talked about today are, well, available at coder.show slash 600, like a lot of stuff is. What? Coder.show. Yeah, it's got a website over there with links and stuff like, you know, chat rooms, live streams, all that kind of stuff. RSS feeds.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And I guess that's one of the advantages of not really having sponsors is we can take a week off. So we're going to take Christmas week off. But like maniacs, we'll be back New Year's week. So we're only gone for for one week.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You can also check jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar if you want to join us live or just get subscribed to the RSS feed and get episodes as they're published. We're always grateful for everyone out there listening. It's been a ton of fun to do 600 episodes. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Coder Radio. And we'll see you back here in two weeks. Happy holidays.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Probably. It's it's unlikely because it's Christmas, but it could still happen.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Market crash or could even happen. Maybe it's outside the tech industry. Who knows?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I think the other problem with Sam is he probably consumes child's blood, so he's probably got that young energy.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I'm jumping ahead. Sorry. Go, go, go. I might – yeah, I might add something to that a bit. But I think before we get to current AI – Let's go back in time. You know, the current state and hype around AI, I think one of the first ways it materialized into our area of the industry was back in episode 439 of the Coder Radio program. And that is titled GitHub No Pilot.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
where it's one of the first, I don't know if it's the first, but it's one of the first times we talked about GitHub Copilot. This is November 10th, 2021 is when this happened. You know, I don't know, man, I'll play this clip for you. I think maybe at first we missed the wider story about Copilot. In part, I think because it was just a feature in Visual Studio Code, it wasn't a standalone product.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
But you also will probably recall when things like Copilot were announced, There was an immediate concern around this product.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I mean, the big concern, if you recall, when Copilot first launched and the first versions, it was essentially reproducing GPL code almost line for line. And code laundering and whatnot was a concern. Code laundering, wow.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Oh, I was planning to make nice with the natives, set up a nice family, and just assume that my buddies were never coming back ever again and build an entire new life over there.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's fascinating going back and, you know, seeing the transition, this particular topic, has taken on the show. Because to hear you say this now, for a few weeks even, it was like a few weeks after this thing was out, we were fairly skeptical. So I thought maybe by this week, all of the hoopla around Copilot would have just simmered out, but it definitely has not.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And I didn't take this very seriously initially. Neither did I. I didn't even really bother trying it. I just thought, okay.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, let's just talk about it. It's like it's weird. It's new. Like we weren't taking it very seriously, but it definitely has gotten a whole gamut. It's gotten a lot of praise. It's also gotten a lot of fire. And I mean, I really don't even know what to think of it at this point. I'm curious where you're at with it.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Hilarious that he made that comparison. Now, that was our 2021 take. But by early 2022, episode 472, I think our tune had started to change. And I think it came down to one big factor. Microsoft released Copilot as its own standalone product, no longer only integrated individual studio code. GitHub Copilot has launched and it is $10 a month.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You went right in. How did you go from this is horrible and going to get me in legal trouble to here's a year of subscription? How did you make that jump?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
We have the lightning network. We need the light speed network for that. So I've been teased that you have a fancy, fast speed upgrade of some type, and I want to know what and how much. Okay. Well, you said right here in the doc, Mike's Flash-like speed upgrade. I want to know what you're talking about.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Well, they describe it as a coworker who might need a little review. That's what you paid for, according to Microsoft. So you're saying it's not actually like a coworker. I'm saying don't. Don't do it. The other problem I would have with it is not only is it not going to give you very good suggestions, but couldn't it be putting you into some kind of potential legal ambiguity?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yep. That's always the direction it goes. Been there. Been there. Have fun in the .minecraft directory. You'll be in there for years. I think back to present day, we have forgotten how horrible these LLMs were at their very first iterations because the hype was so strong. Yeah. And now we're like in the agentification era and all of that.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's crazy. Got to watch out. Got to watch out. You know, speaking of the web, that's been a topic on the show forever. You know, when the show started, we were really kind of watching the beginning of the transformation of applications into the web. Web apps were not really a thing when the show started, and now they're just sort of the standard.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I mean, look at Slack and Office products and Discord and all these things that are electron-based. I've hated them from day one, Mike, and I still don't like them. I still, you know, a lot of my primary complaints, they're not as fast as native applications. You can have the interface just change on you randomly.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
This is Coder Radio, episode 591, recorded on October 8th, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show. Taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and joining us over there from Florida, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike. Hello. Hey, handsome.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
These systems are old, decrepit, and probably very easy to exploit. And if you know what systems to take advantage of, you can probably get in there pretty easily. Probably people in our audience can do it. The reality is these are not particularly well defended systems to begin with. And they rot. There is just this sort of rot that happens with these things as tech moves on.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And we don't have any kind of proof that we have any kind of skill to maintain it. And we don't. I just you'd have to show me and demonstrate we can do that before we start backdooring everything.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah, I've noticed that just from the IT side of things, working as they would bring connectivity to a building or something. It's like working with IBM. Yeah. You know, it's just they have their way of doing things and we're not deviating from this and we've been deploying this for the last 15 years. It works just fine.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, 30 years ago. Things were much more, you know, offline.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I but that's my kind of my contention or my point is that. We would build something today and then 30 years from now, technology will be so advanced that we have the same problem, only probably in a quicker, faster, shorter time period. Like you can build it for today, but we have no way to actually know we would maintain an update and keep things secure as technology evolves.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So even if it was safe today, it won't be 30 years from now. And then we'll have it deployed everywhere because it takes, once this stuff's out there, it takes forever to get rid of it. So it seems just short-sighted. Back to your main point. There's other ways to do the job.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Speaking of jobs, I thought you and I, as a couple of longtime seasoned professionals, should review the head of developer community for SignalFire's hot tips for unlocking the aha moment for a developer relations lead. So this is advice targeted at a DevRel employee. position, somebody who's supposed to be working for a company out there that wants to build a community around their projects.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
It's written by Jared Rise, and I will say there is actually some good stuff in this. So I'm not just, we're not just taking shots at it. There's some good stuff in here, but there are a couple of questionable things. He writes, while many startups are eager to build a community from day one, doing DevRel well at an early stage requires you to focus your limited resources. So,
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
He's going to focus on particular things and how to create an aha moment for your early users. Early stage companies have developed... They say it's essential to have developer relations in your product marketing. Every interaction from documentation to demo should quickly drive developers... to a pivotal moment. He's got these tactics they should follow.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I'm not positive, but I think I read that he's self-representing, the guy that runs... That's a wild choice. Yeah, going up against Nintendo? Yeah. Yeah. But he claims he has... Previous legal cases that he can point to that show what he's doing is totally legal.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And I want to bounce a couple off of you, okay? This is one I think I'm kind of mid on, and I want to get your take. This is of like probably five or six of them. So here's one of the tactics. Companies need to focus. Don't be everywhere all the time. Nascent startups must resist the temptation to cast a wide net with developer relations initiatives.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
A targeted approach is not only more cost effective, but also yields better results. Examine your early adopters, those enthusiastic individuals who jump at the chance to test your alphas and betas. Let that guide your focus. Identify the job titles and roles of your early champions. If you target an audience, focus only on the channels that those audiences frequent.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Should you sponsor a conference? Well, it depends on your goals. If you're trying to generate a pipeline, you should consider sponsoring conferences where you know your audience, your primary P0 audience, will be in high attendance. One word of advice, if you're seeking for product activation, consider only supporting conferences where you have an accepted talk as well.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Last but not least, focus on geo-located communities. If you're based in a specific city, start by building a strong presence there. This allows you to establish a deeper connection with your early champions and build a solid foundation for growth.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So what do you think of this tactic about focusing specific areas, certain conferences, and then identify early enthusiastic adopters in your community? That seems kind of like semi-decent advice here. Advice?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah, so I want to talk about the conference. The conference one is, I think, the hardest to figure out what the return on value is for an individual. It's going for people that are trying to pitch their employer or for people that run their own business or, you know, whatever. It's like, okay, so what am I getting out of this?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So having a talk, you know, it's kind of like, well, I'm on the schedule. There's going to be some people that show up. I get to plug some stuff for the business. It almost kind of guarantees you're going to get a little bit of value out of the... Yeah. whole travel, I suppose, so I kind of get that. It's a tricky one.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
But so now the lawsuit's progressing to the discovery stage where Nintendo is going to get access to all his books and all that kind of stuff. So they're going after it's just. I don't know, I guess. Where I where I still sit on this. Is these experiences, especially when you're a kid, like Super Mario World for me and the Sega games like Sonic and stuff, which I was more of a Nintendo guy.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
What I think, and you're right, most of these are pretty on the nose, and yet most tech companies don't even follow these basic ones. And I think some of them get it pretty good. I think Tailscale has a pretty good community outreach and YouTube channel, but A lot of these companies try to go global by producing online media that just sucks. It might as well be a AI product.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And it's just, you know, it's because it's so narrowly focused and they can't help it. All these companies are insular. So you're in your own little bubble in your company and you go make content and it's bubble content. It's not good overall general content. They don't get big audiences. They try to become YouTubers and they try to create YouTube channels and do live streams and
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
do product release events on live streams. And you see a lot of this out there. And it's such, and having been in some of these companies that do this, it is such an utter waste of the company's time and efforts in outreach. And this is what they consider developer outreach. And it's a massive distraction.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And you see so many companies blowing this and putting out substandard content that actually makes their brand seem a little cheap and amateur. And yeah, you know, you read this and you're like, oh yeah, this seems obvious. Focus. Nowhere in here did he say launch a YouTube channel. Nowhere in here did he say create a podcast. Right? Yeah.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Okay, now here's the one that I don't know kind of left me feeling a little weird. It's maybe it's the language. Leverage open source as an engagement engine. Creating an open source utility that complements your product can be a powerful way to engage developers.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah. And what I don't like is he kind of argues for like, OK, take your main product. And then like take something kind of related to your main product, but it's not core to your business, but it's useful. Open source that and let your community feel like they're making a big impact there. And you don't have to open source your main stuff.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, to me it sounded like a little bit like open core. Like it's just a new – It is open core.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah. It sounded like – I don't know. And he says identify a utility that's closely related to your product and valuable to your target audience. Open source it and build it collaboratively. Okay. I agree with that. But then it goes on to say, track the usage of your open source tools, the number of contributors and how it drives traffic and signups for your main product.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I think if you launch an open source project with the intention of driving signups to a main product. Yeah, I don't buy it. That's not going to work, son. That's just not going to work. That ain't it, Jif. That ain't it.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, and then you think about how it works internally. You got to derive all of these metrics of like, okay, What kind of click through and performance is our open source efforts bringing through our community edition? What is that driving to our main product? And what's the cost to do all that?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And like, if you think about how you got to do that from a number standpoint, well, he's got tips on that. He's got tips on that.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
But like those games are slow, like they have such nostalgic value for me. You know, 10 out of 10. Right. I just I hate the idea that something like that can get created, which is kind of an art. And then can completely just disappear unless you continue to buy a $300 device. And now you also have to pay a monthly or annual subscription to Nintendo Online Plus or whatever it's called.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
He says, you know, first of all, you need to set up micro funnels to track each stage of developer engagement. Measure time on documentation, conversion from engaged users to monetized users, and the overall time to value for new developers. I guess he means from making money off it from when they become a new developer to when you're making money off them.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Track these metrics in a plain old spreadsheet, he says, and then later on you get a more advanced system that will help you track all of it.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah. And also if it's like a library utility, you know, it may just get pulled in from a package manager. They have no idea.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And so he's got, okay, so first, here's the core metrics. Time to first success, e.g. first API call to first deployment. The documentation engagement, so the time spent and pages viewed. Conversion rate from documentation to sign up. Retention rate after the first aha moment. I can measure that.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And number five, the last one, number of developers influencing deals, which I guess that's maybe like they're advocating the product to their company or something.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, and what they're trying to do – and this guy is trying to put himself out there as like this expert on managing developer communities. They're trying to turn developers into sales advocates and sales channels. So they don't really want your contributions.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
What they want is you to sign up for their bigger product or, as they put here, number five, number of developers influencing deals, which I take to mean you find their open source product in your own little home hobby project, cute little home hobby project. Then when you go to work and do your real job, you tell your boss that you should go buy this thing.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So they're using them as basically free salesmen. I guess they get an open source utility in the process. I don't know. It's like that's where it really took a weird turn for me. Like that's not going to work.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah. Well, you know what came to mind at scale is VS Code.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And it kind of works. And you get a decent text editor as a result. I mean, maybe it's not your – I don't know. The listener has their favorites, but – Like, it's not bad. And it is kind of, it is like a front-end, it's how you get into the Microsoft Store. It's for how developers get to the Microsoft Store. Just all the back-end services and stuff. So it's totally the Microsoft playbook.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And you know they're probably tracking those kinds of metrics in Microsoft about conversion and stuff like that. So, I mean, this is the game, I guess.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So that's why I'm asking for the audience to boost in any companies out there that seem to be actually doing dev relations right in a way that doesn't gross you out. And, of course, I'd love the bad ones, too, just so we can comment here on the show. Because, you know, I guess that's what we like to do.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So that way you get access to these emulators like they just keep making it more cost prohibitive just to get access to the stuff that you've already bought 30 times in your life. And you want to be able to just experience one more time. And like with Breath of the Wild, I love that so much that I didn't want to play it on a switch anymore.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Hey, man, you know, I realize your business may be obliterated by 170 mile power winds.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I'll tell you, to me, I hope that everything goes so smooth and these people look so ridiculous. You don't need anything like that. What would you do if the storm came in and disrupted your business operation for a few weeks?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah. Imagine if they end up getting investigated or something.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
A plus one. All right. Stay a while and listen. Got a listener email I wanted to get to before we get out of here. MJVC highly recommended Mermaid.js for diagramming. Hearing the discussion on making diagrams, I wanted to highlight Mermaid.js, which is a domain-specific language for making diagrams. It's up on GitHub. You can use VS Code with it. You can integrate it with GitHub.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I wanted it on a device that I could back up, that I could move, that the family could share. It just was just like I have more flexibility. And so when they kill these projects. They're killing our ability to preserve this art. And I know that the Nintendo Switch is a current product, but it's not the easiest thing to run. It requires a pretty high-end computer.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You can use Obsidian and more. I really like using it as a starting point for a lot of diagrams because it's plain text and popular. Many LLMs are fairly competent at generating them. Yeah, so I looked it up, and it does look really cool. It is a JavaScript-based diagramming tool, uses Markdown-inspired text definitions, which probably makes it pretty easy to pick up if you know Markdown.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
The main purpose of Mermaid is to help documentation catch up with development, they write. It lets you create diagrams and visualizations using text code, JavaScript-based diagramming and charting tool. Mermaid even allows non-programmers to easily create detailed diagrams through the Mermaid Live editor. And then, of course, they have a bunch of integrations,
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Like I mean a bunch, like all of the integrations, really. Like everything. Yeah, a lot of them at least. Notion, Obsidian, Joplin, GitLab, GitHub, GitT, GitBook, Azure DevOps, all the Atlassian products, and a bunch more. Couldn't go through all of them. And apparently LLM integration using HueHive to create mermaid diagrams with text. So that I will put a link to in the show notes.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Again, it's MermaidJS. It's very cool. Yeah, it is, right? I do.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You can find it online at MermaidJS.org. It's a .org over there. And so, yeah, thank you to MJVC who emailed it in at coder.show slash contact. Thank you also to all of our members who support the show at coder.show slash membership. And everybody who boosts in will have the boosts in next week's episode if all goes as planned.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Mr. Dominic, is there anywhere you want to send the good peeps before we get out of here?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Also, I'll add in there a hot tip. You don't have to email recommending great guests who just wrote a book. It's so funny when they'll write and be like, hey, guys, I really love the show, and I know you've had some great guests, so I want to recommend one. And then it's like a book author. It's like, lady, we have guests like once a decade. What?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
All right. Links to what we talked about at coder.show slash 591 will be live next week. You can find it at coder.show slash live on a Tuesday at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern or in your podcasting 2.0 app or jblive.fm. It'll be in your local time at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar as well. But hey, even if you don't catch a live, we're just glad you listened.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of the Coder Radio program. I'll see you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
It's a pretty technical thing to set up. So I doubt it's cutting into the people that are buying Nintendo for all of the Nintendo suite of games to play with the family. It's more for people that maybe they can't afford the Switch or they prioritize the PC over buying consoles. I don't know. But for me, it's about preserving access to these things that me and my family love.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Beyond just the lifetime of a particular console or subscription program.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I imagine these DRM anti-cheat checks, too, are going to make that a problem.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I kind of understand it with the Switch. It's a current product. But the modded hardware folks are more about classic, you know, old-style stuff.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You know, I'm sitting here trying not to get worked up. I can't help but get mad. I know Nintendo does Nintendo things. But they're going after a project that I have personally been using on my Steam Deck hooked up to my TV to play Switch games. And it's an open source Nintendo Switch emulator. They've already gone after one of them. And this is the one I was using.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah. I think that's always, you know, a percentage of the market, especially when the games are 60 bucks and the consoles are $300. Um, But I think there's also a pretty large market that doesn't want to fuss with it. The reason why they buy a Nintendo is they want a really smooth experience that's just The games work out of the box on the thing just like you expect.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
The controllers, you know, they work just like you expect. Everything just works with the Nintendo and the Nintendo Switch. And I think a lot of people buy it for that experience and for those games, and they don't really care to pirate it. I think that's still a huge customer base regardless of these tools exist.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
This is why I get frustrated with myself that it still works me up after all this time, because I know Nintendo's going to Nintendo. Right. You know what I would like to see, you know, would make me a little bit happier, like in the case of modded hardware. What if they just sold a $100 Super Nintendo console? You know?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So I have upstairs here in the studio a Super Nintendo that I bought off eBay that's hooked up to a CRT monitor. Nice. Yeah, and that works pretty well. And I fire it up once a year, you know, and make sure it still works. But I don't really play it as much as I thought I would. But that was my solution, was just go find the actual hardware and buy it.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
But, you know, that's not going to work forever. Stuff's not going to last forever. I'm grateful it lasts as long as it has, though. The Coder Radio Program is a value-for-value podcast. What is that? Well, it's a monetization model. It's a content format. And I guess it's a way of life, if you will. It's the idea that podcasts should be open.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
They shouldn't be behind paywalls and they should be on any podcast app that you want. And it's really about being available to the largest possible audience as well, because realistically, it's not a growth strategy for a podcast to go behind a paywall. So the idea is if you get value from the podcast, you want to keep us around. You enjoy the discussion. It makes you think about things.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You contribute in some way when you can in your time, your talent or your treasure. Your time could be maybe taking the time to tell somebody else about the show or joining our community and participating when we're live. Talent, maybe you've got some skills and you can check out our GitHub and see if there's things that you could help over there to move things along for Jupyter Broadcasting.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And treasure. What is treasure? Well, thanks to the Lightning Network, monetary value can be exchanged instantly without friction with no middleman. directly to us. And for a lot of people, that is the most straightforward way for them to contribute. And when you boost in, we will read your message if it's above 2000 sats.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Then, of course, we have our membership at Coder.show slash membership, where you can put your support on autopilot. All right. And thank you, everybody. I'll also take a moment to say thank you to those of you who do support the show. Coder.show slash membership and go check out a new podcast app like Fountain.fm.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So we've recently been talking about AI regulation on the show and sort of the long-term second-order impacts that can have, which we're always a little cautious of. And then in between shows, a story came out about some Chinese hackers. I think they call themselves Salt Typhoon. And they breached AT&T, Verizon, and a couple of other carriers recently.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And we're just discovering what they did is they got access to the wiretap systems that are in place for the government. And these are called the C-A-L-E-A, CALEA. And it's a 30-year-old law that mandates that telecom companies comply with government orders to get... access to wiretap. It's mandated. They have to do it. It's federal law. And as you can imagine, something like that ages.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And they kind of like played hardball in a different way than their typical tactic. They kind of like got a hold of him and they're like, it would be good if you were to shut down your GitHub. Let's just say this project should disappear. If you were to go away, our legal team may move on to other things. You know what I mean? They got that kind of contact.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
that has massive access like that, it becomes a pretty big target. So U.S. investigators believe that the hackers potentially accessed the wiretap warrant request, so they got maybe access to all of the warrant requests or more. They don't know.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I think the goals of the Chinese campaign are not yet fully known, but the Wall Street Journal cited a national security source who considers the breach, quote, potentially catastrophic. The intrusions into the U.S. wiretap system are the latest examples of malicious abuse of the back door, ostensibly meant...
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
For lawful and legal purposes, the law says, this is a quote, the law says your telecom must make your calls wiretappable unless it encrypts them, creating a system that was always a target for bad actors. This is according to a Stanford academic and encryption policy expert. They write, the hack exposes the lie that the U.S.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
government needs to be able to read every message you send and listen to every call you make. And I wanted to bring this up because it's about regulating backdoor access into technology. And as we see the pressure that's being put on Telegram and just the conversation around encryption and the EU chat laws that have been, well, they're still getting kicked around.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
A lot of it is about baking in backdoors into these things so that they can do ostensibly wiretapping. The Signal president wrote on Mastodon, quote, there's no way to build a backdoor that only the good guys can use. Yep. All right. So do you think a little reality check? Is this a fair case and study to point to and say this is why we don't legislate backdoors built into things?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Because look what just happened here. These salt typhoon hackers. I've apparently been persistently accessing this information for quite a long time using something that was mandated.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Of course. Or terrorism, right? There's always terrorism.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, okay, hold on. To steal a man a little further, I think maybe the perspective is Look, we have a job to do. These are common channels of communication. We have been doing our job for a long time with access to this. We believe we do it responsibly and under the rules of the law. And we want lawful access to these communications so we can do our job.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And if I can't decrypt what's in this kid's messages after he set off a pipe bomb, I can't do my job. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to peep on you. Well, I know, but that's what they this is the argument that they're going to use, I think.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So GitHub gets taken down, voluntarily deleted. Well, voluntarily in response to Nintendo's demands. But the website's still going, and the Discord channel remains active. So, like, maybe there's... I'm sure there's ways you can still pass around a tarball of this thing or something like that. So that's happening.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Right, right. Or just in your browser history or whatever it might be.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Because they're ISPs as well. They're not just telco providers. They're tracking people's data too. They're seeing what GitHub project you're going to.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah, I think you're right. And I think two things would have to be true in order for me to sort of be pro backdoor to encryption into chat apps. Just keep it in that room. One, I think like what you're inferring, the legal machinery and apparatus is too out of tune. It is too dysfunctional to be fully trusted at this point with that kind of power.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Even if it didn't affect us individually, it could be used for political blackmail. It could be used for all kinds of shenanigans behind the scenes that we'd never know about. And so there's just not the trust in the legal apparatus that would be around this to govern it correctly.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
But then, and to a point that Wes is making in the live chat, the second thing that would have to be done is we'd have to be able to manage our infrastructure and build things in a logical way that can be maintainable and sustainable and that can remain secure over a 30-year period. And I can't yet point to anything that demonstrates that we have the ability in those sectors to do that.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And then additionally, they're going after the modded hardware folks who make, like, a Nintendo-like device. So now the modded hardware website is private. And they have... They're fighting, though. In this one, this one is a straight-on legal fight, and they're taking it to court. I think... I think they might be self-representing.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
This is Coda Radio, episode 587, recorded on September 10th, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show, taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and sharpening his claws, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike. Huzzah! Happy debate day. Oh, yeah. You have to be excited for us. Yeah.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I think my wife's on the 11th. Sure, why not? So they have a real big problem here. The market has moved into an area where they're irrelevant, and their prices are not that great. So you're looking at two, three iPhone release cycles now before you upgrade. What I saw up there was a company dancing for Wall Street after Wall Street already left the theater.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Also, I don't know what's going on with that new first page UI. It's confounding. Totally confounding.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Ad business didn't come up yet, but that may come up in the next trial.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
There's a lot of air. So the whole pitch is, well, I know your current phone is fine and the cameras have gotten so good you can't even tell the difference anymore when you upgrade. And, you know, for some this is not true, but for a lot of people, probably the majority of iPhone users, they're in a one or two or three generations back.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It seems a little too extreme, too. It was a 10-week trial, right? And then, boom, now we're talking about splitting up one of the largest tech companies in the world, who's, I don't know, like, I don't love Google. And I'm going to make it clear, I think people on this show know how I feel about Google. I've gone through a lot of efforts to de-Google my life.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And Apple's pitch is, well, this new stuff is so awesome that you're going to need, you know, that's why they did the whole, we went over, we jumped over the A17, and we went all the way to the A18, 3 nanometer.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's why they made a big deal about it, because what they're trying to say is, these new phones have more RAM, they've got more CPU, they're faster at everything, bigger batteries, and you get the AI features. You need all that horsepower, right? You want these AI features. Your phone finally is no longer fast enough.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But the reality is, if you just don't care about those features, it's plenty fast. And the other thing that's sort of not compelling about these phones, and I don't know if consumers will fully understand this, you're going to get the phone and not everything's there. In December... you're going to see some more features roll out.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And in October, you're going to see some, so October 1st, some features roll out December next, some features roll out. And then slowly it rolls out for places outside the United States, like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa and the UK are the first on the list, but they don't start getting stuff until like 2025 for some of the features.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So imagine buying this phone in September and, Because of the AI features, but you're in the UK, and you don't get feature completion until 2025 because you guys just say things funny. You know? Like, that sucks, man.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
They're like shipping on the hairy, ragged edge of what they can do as a company. Like they worked for a year plus on this probably. Yeah. And that this is the absolute best, and it's probably not even fully baked.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So it's interesting how more and more Apple is getting comfortable with. Well, we can't delay the iPhone. We got bills to pay. So we're just going to delay the software and ship it in stages. And that's just like it started with a couple of features like camera settings. Remember, that's how it started. A couple of things in the camera app, like maybe it was portrait mode would come later.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And now it's like the entire value prop of the phone comes later. That's where we're at now.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And, you know, the Apple Watch looks good, the new Apple Watch. The sleep apnea detection, legitimately, if somebody has sleep apnea, I would love to have that in my watch just so I can kind of keep an eye if things are getting worse. Yeah, that makes sense. And they made it smaller and charge faster. Like, you know, okay. The poor iPad got no love. Apple Vision Pro didn't even get a mention.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, the AirPods seem like they're still a really good product, and the auto-transition between silence and, like, it detects a conversation and does pass-through, like, that stuff... They're all kind of like, oh, man, I wish we always had those features. But Apple, you know, Apple adding them is really good.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
In fact, I would, again, like this list from the audience, any recommendations for great AirPods that are not AirPods but have fantastic noise rejection. Maybe even has somebody else done this auto conversation transition and Apple's pretending like it's brand new? I want all that. I just don't want AirPods because I want to be able to use it with other devices.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I know I'm crazy, but I want to be able to pair it with my Switch or my phone. You can pair them as Bluetooth. Yeah, I know.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Not a big fan of theirs, and I think they are kind of a disappointment as a company these days. However, if you were to break up Google's ad business and you were to break up Chrome and you were to start splitting these things up, there may be some advantages to that.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Well, no, you know what's Tim Cookie is they didn't do anything except for USB-C on the Maxes. It's still got the H1 chip. Everything's the same. It's just the same price. Even the earmuffs are the same. Everything's the same except for it has USB-C.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Um, and it's okay, but it's a $550 product, which we have a pair in my house and we also have pairs of bows and we have Sony's and I'm not going to say maybe the, maybe the AirPod Max is sound the best, but they don't necessarily have the best sound rejection. Um, they are okay, but having just flown with them to Toronto and back, um, they could be better.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And their design also transfers a lot of vibration and noise into the headphones in a way that the Sony's and the Bose do not. So there is room for improvement on these, you know, $550 headphones and USB-C wasn't just it. Yeah. I, I,
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
cooking right or I'm like yes I you know insert thing here and I want to listen to the second I put hair I put air pods in or anything like that that's when the kids talk to me or the wife talks to me it's like it's some sort of homing honing beacon for my entire family to come ask me a question
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I am looking for something that has great active noise canceling because not only – I use – the two environments I use them are really extreme, flights and driving my RV, which creates a bunch of just internal noises, stuff rattles. And so you put the old headphones on for a little peace of mind, but it has to be really good.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
All in all, they're good products, and if you're already in the Apple ecosystem, Apple continues to deliver really great, solid updates to Apple users, and if you've already invested, if you're on a phone that's a year too old, or maybe you're on a watch that's a couple of models old, these are all really great updates, and Apple cranks us out like clockwork.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Google, some years you get a Pixel watch, it's okay. Other years you get a Pixel watch, it's garbage. The Pixel 8 seemed kind of like mid. Pixel 9 seems like it's pretty great. They don't have the consistency that Apple does. And as an Apple user, you know that, hey, if I just wait a year and I buy every other year, you're going to get a noticeable upgrade in all the things you care about.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I'd be really curious to solicit the audience's thoughts on what those might be because what I can think of right now are the negatives.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It does have a new 5G chip in it that's supposed to be a lot better. So there's that too.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, I don't really have a lot either, but when I do get good 5G, it's pretty sweet. It is actually pretty sweet.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Oh, my God. You got almost the same image I got when I told the AI to generate.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Did you see that? Did you see my image? It's almost identical.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And the reality, in my opinion, is that you can throw a lot of things at Google, but when you compare them to other advertising companies or other tech companies, Google has probably one of the most transparent, documented, and understood privacy policies out there. And Google is held to a very high standard. Now, I'm sure they're constantly secretly violating that trust.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But maybe if you've done it 20, 30 times, it would be second nature, but it's just a different path.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah. I've only had like a brief bit of experience with it, but it did seem like more of the real deal. Like Microsoft had to rethink of how to do this. And also in WSL2, like they've plumbed in the ability to like pipe graphical applications through. So it's like it does more stuff as well.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I recall there was pretty good integration with Visual Code Studio. Did you get a chance to play with that?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Did you get a sense of how much overhead on your Windows box there was by keeping a WSL system in the background running? I'm assuming, I know you, you probably went with Penguin, right?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So what kind of resources are we talking here? Is it gigs and gigs and gigs of RAM? Is it kind of unnoticeable?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But they still, I think, probably are better in this area than any other tech company, let alone any other company in America, probably the rest of the world. And I'm not saying they're great.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Now, did you try any kind of Docker setup? Because like our podcast in the chat room is saying he's had some major issues trying to get Docker on WSL on his Windows 10 laptop.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, I don't remember having a strong problem, but I probably only played with Docker for like 15 seconds. To me, it just never makes sense because I'm not doing application development. I'm running the end result in most cases. I'm deploying the Docker container on a system, and then for me, it's just always made sense to just... do that on a native Linux box.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
What do you feel like the advantage is for you here, having Windows? I mean, obviously you get like applications that are only available for Windows, but is there something beyond, say, application compatibility?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But as far as what they let you control, what you can delete, take your, you know, they have Google takeout and what and and they tell you what they're watching and what they monitor and they document it copiously. And. No other company is going to have those levels of protections. And the further down the food chain you go, the worse those protections are going to get.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And nothing prevents them from being Linux boxes, too. So that's the other nice thing is, like, you can buy it with Windows. You know you can use Windows. But also down the road, you want to make it a Linux machine when you get the next computer or something like that. You know, it's a little bit harder with a Mac. it can become an overpowered Plex server. Sure. Yeah, or a NAS.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, you just don't, I mean, you can do that stuff with the Mac if you want to use macOS for sure, but if you want to use Linux, well, then you're looking at Asahi and you're looking at some stuff like maybe your speakers or the Wi-Fi not quite working.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
In my opinion, it's the damnedest thing that's happened because Linux had this incredible compatibility momentum with Proton and the launch of the Steam Deck. And it seemed like we were entering a new era. And it has greatly improved, greatly improved. But...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
the momentum has definitely been stolen because a few great games, um, have these horrible anti-cheat systems and that just do not let Linux play at all. And, uh, you know, even like companies like Roblox, they have these on and off relationships, ships with Linux where, you know, it's okay for using it under wine for a little bit.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And then all of a sudden they'll start banning accounts that are using wine. And then now it's seemingly back on again and you can, and it's, It's really frustrating, and it's to their own detriment as they just are locking people into a platform that doesn't care about them.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And so in some bizarre way, a move that may be touted as great for consumer privacy, i.e. breaking away Android and Chrome from Google, may actually be worse for consumer privacy. Because it's not like these tracking behaviors go away, but now you just have companies that are held to lower standards that have lower standards of privacy policies making deals with each other.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
He doesn't have a title, does he? I don't know. Does he have a title?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, might be. Well, I guess if anyone out there listening has some WSL experience, boost it in and tell us what it's been like and tips and tricks you've used to make it viable for you. You know, I have this low-key pressure campaign for my son to put him on Windows because...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
The buddy he hangs out with, his dad works at Microsoft and they're constantly dunking on the fact that he can't play a couple of video games that look like crap anyways. Fortnite. So I think, you know, I would love some advice there because if he ever does end up on Windows, he's going to also have to have WSL. He's going to be living and breathing that and so...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Four score and seven boosts to go. All right. We got some boosts and a baller boost this week, and it's a biggie from our podcast.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
He writes, hello, Mike and Chris. The only time I've ever done a fist pump while mowing the lawn was listening to Coder Radios and the call out for the epic R boost as the official Coder Radio language. Just so devoted. It is my duty to keep the momentum going.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's where my concern comes in. And that's just my first reaction.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
In what other language could I go from creating an over-the-top hotshot racing metrics dashboard to sharing an interactive shiny web app compiled in WebAssembly to the FDA? Might be some great show content, hashtag just saying. So he links us to the old hotshots dashboard here. This is hilarious and awesome at the same time.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And Eric's also in the chat room, so he may even end up titling the episode if he gives us a good one. This is so great. This dashboard is part of a very fun stack of open-source software created for the official Wimpy's World of Linux gaming, most official unofficial hotshot racing league. Have you ever played Hotshot Racers? Good little game.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It is an older game, and it's sort of like a cel-shaded look, but it's just pure fun. I'm a big fan of the game. I don't play it very often, but I did back in the day a little bit, so that's a great example right there. Eric, thank you for that amazing boost. The, uh... They are crew. Do they have a nickname? Because they are kings of the coder official language crew right now.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I don't even know what to say. It's very impressive. Very impressive. They really are. Rotted Mood comes in with 50,000 sats. I hoard that which your kind covet. Just as value for value. Thank you, Rotted Mood. We really appreciate that. Tampa Tech Trekkie is back with 5,000 sats. You supposed.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I think Mike hit the nail on the head with the whole if Steve Jobs were still alive bit. In that after Next... where Steve had been, he says it humbled him and he learned to get along to some degree with others. The iMac supported great web standards, but also Steve Jobs made Java an optional dev language in the first few editions of OS X and was taking cues from Linux back then.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Heck, they even experimented with making the Linux kernel on OS X, but it seems the GPL prevented that. I remember Jobs bragging about how, quote, Linux-like OS X was. That's what made the Apple of the 21st century. What's killing it are things like app signing, et cetera.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And, you know, I remember I had a screenshot. I've long, long lost, but I remember a screenshot of literally them comparing to like Fedora. They had a Fedora terminal and an OS X, which that's what it was called back then. It was Red Hat, right? Because you got to get that Red Hat.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And they were comparing the two literally like, wow. There's like a Fedora terminal in the keynote. It was a different time. You're right. They were really trying to lean into getting software developers and power users on the platform. But they're not at that stage anymore, right? And the reality is that normies like gates and security guards and people walking around with flashlights.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And that's what the iPhone is now. It's more like the Nintendo Switch than it is a general computing device, I think. What's remarkable about this episode is it was, you know, it ended up being really solidly supported just because we had a few folks really step up because Scuba Steve takes us out with 14,300 sets. Thank you very much. Put some macaroni and cheese on there, too. There you go.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Nice. He says, hey, guys, here's my response to what if Steve Jobs was still alive. You both rightly pointed out the differences between Cook and Jobs, Cook being an accounting-focused CEO and Jobs being a product guy. But the biggest distinction in my mind is that Jobs is a founder. Founder-led companies get leeway with investors for moonshots and long runway projects that other companies don't.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Look at Zuck's crazy spending on the metaverse. This is why a Jobs Apple in 2024 had the potential to be much more of a consumer and product-focused company and less focused on quarterly earnings. But who can really say? I agree with that. There is something different about founder-led companies. We've had that conversation on the show once before. Zuck gets so much leeway.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
He says, bonus question regarding Nostra. Yeah. Yeah. So in the Nostra world, you have a private key and a public key. And yeah, if you want to use an extension like Albi to manage it, Albi is transitioning to a fully self-hosted on your own computer, not run by them service. And they've introduced the Albi hub that you can just start up as a Docker container.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's what I was thinking, too. Yeah. Chrome is not a sustainable model if it's not part of an overall web strategy by a giant corporation. Right. Like the way Chrome starts to get monetized when it's its own company is a lot creepier. You see what I'm saying? Right.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So in that case, it no longer is hosted by their services. So Albie actually just recently made that transition. There's another one that I cannot remember the name of, but it's also a browser extension that is locally encrypted and all runs locally, kind of like a Bitwarden password vault.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Those are solutions where the reason why you would use these is you go to one of these Nostra connected websites or applications. They're going to ask for your key. And instead of you having to paste in your key every time, much like Bitwarden, you put in a master password and then it does the key connection.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And then it gives you a level of privileges and a nice GUI to select how much access you want to give these things. Because these Nostra connected applications, you have to grant them permission to how much of you they get. And so Albie also gives you a nice UI around that. He says he's been listening since 2015 and he's a Jupiter Party member since the beginning. Yeah.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
We got to get Mike to a meetup. Well, I got to get down to Florida, I think, is the reality of the situation.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
No, I want to have an excuse to go to Florida when it's crappy here, like January or March. Oh, that's actually a nice time to come down here. You don't want to come here in the summer.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's just the problem is it's so busy. But, you know, if I flew in, you know, I planned ahead of time, get a little Airbnb, do some shows down there in the Airbnb. I think it could work out. We just got to raise the boost to make it happen. Thank you, everybody who participated. We had 19 listeners stream. We had more people that were streaming while they listened than boosted in this week.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And we stacked with the streamers 17,588 sets. We had four folks boost in. So all combined, we had 23 unique people participate. And we stacked a grand total of 386,888 sets. Not too bad at all. Thank you, everybody. This is a totally listener-supported show, which has been kind of a breath of fresh air for us in a way. I think eventually a sponsor will come knocking.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
If it's the right one, I'll say yes, but I also can say no, thanks to the support we've gotten from the audience. And it's been really nice. It's been, I think, over a year now, completely audience-funded. So if you would like to fund on your own terms with the amount you like, with a message, when you like, how you like, then just go get a new podcast app, podcastapps.com.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
We were talking about Noster, Fountain. We'll let you create a Nostra identity, and then you can take that identity and move it between all the different applications. It's not stuck just to Fountain. And it's a really easy way to, like, low-key, not even realize you've started a Nostra identity, and then take it further if you want. Fountain.fm for that.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Lots of great apps, though, at newpodcastapps.com. And, of course, thank you to our members. I think we'll have to cook up before the holidays a Coder QA or something for him, something like that. We just had one released a few weeks ago, and that's in the member feed. You also get an ad-free version of the show. We appreciate all of you.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I just want to mention this one story because it was sent in to me a few times before we leave, and you probably saw it going around. It's, quote, a shocking leak that suggests your phone is really listening in on all of your conversations.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's like they got us. It's like they're too big to fail now. Chrome's too big to fail. And if you break it off into its own company, it's going to have – ginormous infrastructure costs. Huge, huge server-side costs to maintain and deploy Chrome. It's the kind of thing that only a wacky tech company that makes a ton of money from something else entirely could do. So, yeah, man. I don't know.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
A presentation was being given by Cox Media Group that claims their active listening SDK uses AI to collect and analyze real-time intent data by listening... This is what we talked about last week. No, you and I talked about it in Slack. Oh, that's right. We didn't talk about it in the show, and I've been getting messages about it all week.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
They say they can listen to what you're saying, use AI to generate the intent, and then target ads. And... They had Amazon's logo on there, Google's logo on the slide deck, and Facebook's logo on the slide deck. Ridiculous. And the media took this presentation and ran with it as saying, here you go. These companies are actually spying on you 24-7 and using it to target ads.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And then I started getting people sending me stories about, you know, I was out in the yard talking to the wife about a boat. And then I came back inside and got on my device and it had ads for boats. I think this is really happening. Now, Amazon, Google, Facebook, they've said we don't have anything to do with this company. They've told this company to take our logos off.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
We've never used your SDK. And it's not clear in their presentation if it's actually listening 24-7. The way it's actually phrased, if you look at the original reporting, is it looks like it's embedded into individual applications. So the mic would be listening while a particular app is running.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
The thing that is persistent in these messages that I'm receiving, and I'm not dunking on anybody, is the stringent belief that these devices are actually listening to us 24-7 and streaming the data back to Google or Facebook. And somehow the devices are accomplishing this without getting warm. Without generating a large data bill and without draining the battery.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And they're somehow doing it even after the applications have been closed and the operating systems close applications running in the background and things like that. And they're doing it so effectively that you could be outside in the yard talking about a boat. And when you come inside and you fire up your computer, there's ads for boats.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And it's just this idea persists, even though it's technically not feasible, right? If you have a phone that can do that, I would love that battery life. If you have a phone that can do that, I'd love that data plan.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Also, somehow all of the sysadmins in all of the world that have metrics on their nodes and how much data they use, they've never seen any one of these devices chirping gigs worth of audio data. And then the second argument I get is, well, what if it's just listening on device and using a model? to process the audio and look for keywords, which I think will happen eventually.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But again, the battery and the CPU and the data required to do all of this is exponential. So I just, I don't know. I just, once again, I just want to encourage people to think about this critically. Really? That's all this, this is a PSA? Like this is, your devices, if you truly believe things like the Amazon app and the Facebook app are spying on you 24-7, uninstall them.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But I promise you, the bigger threat vector is the fact that they're reading every single email you receive, that they have a web of cookies that they're tracking you with. The bigger problem is they know you better than you realize, and you're just not that special, and they can figure out that you want a boat. Because they know you. They can figure out you like this band.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
This is another example going around. A band that you haven't liked for a long time, all of a sudden you want to get tickets, boom, all of a sudden you get an advertising for it because you talked about it with the wife. Maybe they just know you well enough. They know that band's going to be in town. They know because you were a music subscriber how many times you've played that track.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's a great point too. Yeah, like you're not thinking about all the ads you saw for razors. But that one boat sticks out.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But for people listening, it's just post debate day. So hope you had fun. Hope you had fun. Oh, yeah. You know, Google's not having too much fun. So the Biden administration has, you know, the DOJ part. So the DOJ has not publicly offered. A plan for what they're going to do with Google.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And we happen to have an audience that the advertisers have decided they no longer care to target. Right. Which I think is silly. I think it's a great audience. And with a good product, we can do a good sales job. But the reality is that they pick and choose the markets. And, like, my wife gets these... She doesn't use any social media except for Pinterest.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And again, I sort of feel, I'm not 100% on this feeling, but it seems like five years too late, everybody. Right? Google is facing more competition than ever. And if Google's broken up like this, like you said, I'd rather see YouTube become its own company. That would be a lot better.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And you wouldn't believe the kind of ads she gets in Pinterest. I mean, they definitely know that she is a married woman in her 40s. I'll just put it that way.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's fascinating. And I understand how it feels creepy. I do get that. But... The PSA here really is that if you read a story that is based on the original story, it's two or three levels removed and it's getting reported as Amazon and Facebook and Google are listening to you 24-7 and it's getting reported as fact. But if you go back to the original reporting, it was the CMG group.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
They were giving a presentation and they just put Google, Amazon and Facebook's logo on their slides when they're talking about their SDK. They're an Atlanta-based media conglomerate that makes like billions of dollars a year in advertising. So they probably are doing very creepy stuff, the CMG group.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But they were using these other companies' names to sort of like, you know, I guess affinity scan. Yeah.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Gmail, every single social app. I've had Gmail since it was invite-only beta, so they know everything from dating to marriage to divorce to next. I got all kinds of stuff. It's crazy. And Gmail was literally designed to never delete stuff for a reason.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But I'm the crazy one for wanting to do boosts. What's in your wallet? A little bitty spy. Yeah. Well, I bought seven spies in the chain, actually. Seven different spies. Yeah. True. Because the ISP is there, too. I know I just stepped into it because every time I get on this topic, everybody that believes their phone is spying on them gets upset with me.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But I'm saying you've got to make the technical argument for how it could work. Do that. Send me a technical argument for how it's possible.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
There you go. I'm going to say chrislast.com because that goes to my fancy pants, Nostra page over on Primal. And then I think we're going to be live next week on Tuesday at our regular time if you want to join us at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. I might need to move the next week. Okay, we'll figure it out. Or I might need to do it. Yeah, we'll figure it out off air.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I would love to see YouTube have to fairly compete in that market so it doesn't just have an absolute monopoly over video on the web and then thus a monopoly over speech on the web in video form.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I knew that was coming, but I just was still surprised by it. Yeah, terrible. Yes. You can find links to what we talked about today at coder.show slash 587. Over there, we got all kinds of stuff. Like, I don't know, the RSS feed. Have you heard of that? Yeah, you can search for previous episodes. That's great. You know, do a little backlog, spelunking.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Of course, you can also send us a contact over there or get involved in the old boosties. You know, it's a lot of fun. That's at thecoder.show. .show, it's the TLD. Can you believe they do that? I couldn't. Now everybody's doing it. Anyways, thanks so much for listening to this week's episode of the Coder Radio Program. See you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Oh, yeah. You're right about that. You are right about that. OK, well, a little bit of feedback. So, you know, last week for like 10 minutes, the Gophers won and we had a song. Well, BHH, a.k.a. Brian's back. He says, well, it was a short-lived victory. I just heard that massive R boost, so here is R's official song.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Now, this one's going to help us chill out after thinking about those annoying Google problems and help us relax a little bit with an R song in the style of folk music.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
How do you comfort an R programmer who's feeling down? You tell them, don't worry. Everything will be all right. Thank you, BHH. You can find him on Nostra or Fountain as BHH32, a.k.a. Brian. Very soothing. It was, wasn't it?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's interesting. You see the Gophers and the R folks, they were a little more rowdy. I mean, the Gopher and the Rust folks, sorry. And the R folks seem a little chill, man. It's like everything's going to be okay.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
We're going to have, you know, final judgment in August of next year, but they're already leaking what some of their considerations are. And it looks like they're considering the leaks is on the table. A forced sale of Android. Forced sale off of Chrome. But nothing in the leak about the ad business, which is what all the news was talking about this morning, was the ad business.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I think – clearly. Clearly. I just want to take a moment and say thank you to everybody who supported the show recently. For last week, Coda Radio was in the number one spot for top episodes on Fountain FM thanks to your boost. The boost put it on the charts in the number one position. That's just fantastic because it means a whole bunch of new people will discover us.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And of course, Fountain FM just had their 1.1 release, which includes full Nostra support. So if you've been considering just dipping a toe in Nostra to see what it's like to own your own identity online... Well, they have a setup wizard that'll create a Nostra public key for you and a private key. And then you can take that to other apps. It's cross-app compatible.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's just a public-private key pair system. And now Fountain will create one for you if you don't already have one. So it's a cool way to check out the Fountain app and... get your Nostra identity started as well.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's just so awesome to see you guys boost in, the fun that we've had with the language battles, and then to see it work Coder up to the number one spot in the charts and have a bunch of new people discover the show because of that.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I'm just simply so grateful for our members, the Coder QA crew, and of course the Jupiter Signal members who support the show on autopilot, and of course you boosters who boost in with a podcasting 2.0 app like Fountain. It means the world to us, and it's kept us on the air for this last year. All right, let's get to this.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
We don't have to spend a lot of time on this, but we should talk about it at least. The iPhone 16 is out. We got an i6. As everybody expects, you got a pro and you got a regular one. You know, Apple really, really leaned into health and the, quote, impact on our lives. And everything was designed from the ground up for Apple intelligence, just like we knew it would be.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Tim was really out there with the enthusiasm, a.k.a. yelling. iPhone 16 starts at $799. The 16 Plus starts at $899 for a 128-gigabyte model. And they did something kind of cute for the iPhone 16 that I wanted to get your thoughts on. They blasted right past the A17, and they went to the A18 with 17% more memory bandwidth.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
built for AI models running on-chip 6-core CPU, 2 performance, 4 low power, and they say 30% faster than the iPhone 15 while using less power. Notably, they did a lot of comparisons just to the 15. A lot of times I see Apple go back a model or two, but for the GPU, CPU, and neural cores, they were comparing it mostly to the iPhone 15. And they also stuck a bigger battery in this thing and Wi-Fi 7.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So looking at just the raw performance, Mike, you got the A18 chip with about 30% faster performance overall than the iPhone 15 last year's model, which is incredible at this stage. You got the bigger battery. You got Wi-Fi 7 in this thing. Just base, looking at the hardware specs, seems like, you know, pretty decent iPhone if you're like on a 14 or older right now.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I think Apple's hoping that the intelligence features would kind of draw you to upgrading.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I think it's like I think it's like twelve ninety nine if you want five twelve gig or something. Yeah, I don't see it. You know, I think I do always like the Apple event. I'm on the 14 myself, and I have a Pixel 7, and I've really kind of been stuck in this sort of phantom zone of between ecosystems.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Because it turns out there's a separate antitrust that has just kicked off around just the ad business. And they're going to try to slice that off, too. This would be way beyond what they did for Microsoft back in the early 2000s, right? Because Microsoft didn't actually have to split out into a bunch of different companies. What do you think?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And, like, you really these days have to make a hard commit if you're really going to get a $1,200 device. Yeah. I'm not sure any of the software features are a hard commit for me because while I do think people are going to buy this phone for emoji gen and things like that, I think what we'll discover pretty quickly is that...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's pretty standard AI gen stuff that you can get from a lot of different services or open source self-hosted projects online. And it's going to be pretty boxed, right? Apple sandboxes everything. So these things are going to be pretty safe. They're probably going to all look like Apple stuff.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So you're going to probably after, you know, a few months after these features ship, whenever they do ship, which is ironic, people will be getting the iPhone 16. And as far as I can tell, most of these features aren't even going to be in the phone, which is hilarious. It really shows you the pace of what they're trying to do this, and yet they're still a year too late to the market.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
You're going to know. When you see an emoji or you see a picture, you're going to know that it came from an iPhone 15 or whatever, 16, Apple. You're going to know that it was an Apple-generated thing because they're all going to have a look because that's how Apple works. And I'm not sure I even want to participate in that. So...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Other than things like email summary and text shortening, which I can do via other apps on the phone today, like Spark email does that already on the existing iPhone, I don't think I'm going to do it myself. I do find it interesting how Apple is at this state now where The rest of the industry is kind of catching up to them in terms of quality of device.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I don't like them, but Samsung has some pretty good phones today. They just have way too many SKUs. The Pixel 8 and 9 have been pretty solid devices. The 9 in particular looks really nice. And the iPhone, while still the best, in my opinion, hardware, the gap's starting to get a little narrower, and the price is starting to get a little... a little harder to swallow.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And now they have to start differentiating in software. And they do this very, very, very well. Like they do it with integration with the Apple Watch. They do it now with satellite messaging and calling, which they are expanding, which I think is a killer feature. I mean, that thing almost, almost sells the phone right there for my family members, right?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Because, or me, you know, imagine I'm on a road trip somewhere without cell frequency that happens often. Maybe this would save my life one day. I mean, that's a serious feature, although the Android phones are going to start having that too. They're trying to differentiate with these types of features, you know, and Apple intelligence is one of them.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But the reality is the Apple intelligence is going to be substandard to what Microsoft slash open AI or Google can do. You know, the Washington Post had a headline this morning and said the iPhone 16's Apple intelligence is useful except for when it's bonkers.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And we talked about this before, and I'd said, if they don't nail this Apple intelligence stuff after already being a year late to the market, it's going to be like the Apple Vision Pro. It's just not going to matter, and nobody's going to be talking about it in six months after all of this hype and all of this. They reoriented the entire damn company and injected AI into everything.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And the initial results are it's still very beta. Joanna Stern said the same thing on CNBC this morning. It is very beta still. Well, that sucks, man, because they're already late to market. They're so late to market that they're not even getting much of a stock bump from any of this. And the analysts are coming on the air and saying, well, this doesn't really matter.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So this we're going to get we're going to get strung along, strung along until August. So maybe we talk about it now and then we just watch. But I'm curious at the onset of this with the DOJ leaking this to publishers at Politico. Seemingly to try to specifically say Android Chrome. Off on their own, they have to be their own separate businesses. YouTube didn't come up.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Doesn't really move the needle. We're not going to play into the super cycle because of this. I.E. Apple is irrelevant in the most and only not the most. Not the most. The only category in tech that has mattered for now two years, and Apple is a total non-player in it.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Additionally, while their hardware is great, you know, here I am on the iPhone 14, so we're like, I'm not sure I want to spend $1,200. So they're not differentiating enough on the software anymore, and the hardware is too expensive because of where they've placed themselves in the market. So, you know, look around. Any non-tech person, they're on like three iPhones a go.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
This is Coder Radio, episode 599 for December 10th, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupiter Broadcasting's weekly talk show. It's taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software and the whole gosh darn world of technology and everything else in there. My name is Chris, probably, and our host, I know that, his name is Mike. Hello, Mike. Hello, hello, hello. How are you?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I unsubscribed from Claude, and I subscribed to ChatGPT because of the custom GPTs, basically. Which I noticed that they said upcoming features will be the ability to browse the web, which is going to be really huge, and file uploads, which I didn't really realize since I use custom GPTs, which you can do file uploads. But, wow, I can't believe they don't have file uploads. They must. Yeah.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
There's a developer of an app called StatsApp for Tesla. He says it's totally unsustainable for any independent developer. The BetterRoutePlanner developer faces similar challenges, saying he's probably going to have to drop Tesla support entirely. It's a lot like... Well, it kind of reminds me of the moves around Twitter's APIs, and it reminds me of the changes around Reddit.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Maybe they mean for the reasoning stuff. They also are doing a grant program. They're offering 10 grants of ChatGPT Pro to medical researchers. So you can see how they're kind of positioning this is you need something that's for research. It's going to do the thinking for you. So $200 a month is totally worth it. To me, it kind of sounds like a desperate play for revenue.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
It feels like you're, yeah, it's not done yet. Yeah, it's not worth $200 because a lot of what they're, if you go through their promotional material, is they're selling future stuff. They're selling stuff like they have this 12 days of shipments where OpenAI is going to ramp up releases and they've announced the new Sora video model. They're trying to get buzz going again.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
And Sora does look very impressive. I don't know if you had a chance to see it. No, I haven't played with it yet. I'd say a lot of what Soar is producing, which is their video model, not always, but on occasion it can produce results that are past the uncanny valley that you can't tell are.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
MKBHD has a YouTube video on it where he plays like AB of, you know, guess if this one's AI or real, and you just legit can't tell on some of them. Jesus Christ. Yeah, and you just go in there and you do it by prompt. Now, initially, they've only given certain people access to this, but it's the same thing.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You just go in there and you give it a text prompt, and it produces not just like an animated Jeff, but like a full video of, you know, it can be multiple minutes in length. And then, you know, we've also seen experimentation with live 3D game rendering, where the 3D game engine is just live generating this stuff. So there's obviously a huge, huge future there for this technology.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Visual generation and video generation. But the reasoning stuff, I was playing a clip in the pre-show, like a lot of people are saying like we're throwing more and more horsepower at this and we're not really getting better results. Like that was the question we had just a couple of months ago. We played that Zuckerberg clip.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You know, can we throw more horsepower at this and it gets more and more advanced? Yeah. Now, some of them are saying you cannot. And it comes down to, like, you know, you just can't move the data around. I don't know if you saw. This is really interesting.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
But XAI engineers are releasing a new Ethernet standard where essentially you can wire GPUs with this hyper-efficient packet transfer over Ethernet so the GPUs can communicate directly. And they've had a breakthrough in the amount of data that they can pump into these things. So there is some changes to be had there. But... I don't know, man.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
It feels like we've kind of hit this, I don't know, like this peak. It's sort of where we're sort of like if you look at like a price, like almost like NVIDIA's price chart, like it shot up, shot up, and now we're just kind of chopping sideways on what this stuff can do. And so it feels like this $200 a month pro, there's 12 days of ship miss. All of this is really to try to get
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Open AI and all of this out there as the leader still. But we'll see. You know, I mean, we'll see. I think it's going to be interesting to take people's take polls at Christmas and see how many people have the chat GPT app installed on their phone. And if they're using it, I have been using it. I actually found it kind of useful. You know, the voice mode and all of that.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
So it's not a bad product, but I'm going to take a little informal poll of the family and see how many people have a chat GPT app on their phone. I'm betting it's not. I bet almost none of them do. We'll see. Do you have a sense, if you were to ask your family, would anybody have a chat GPT app on their phone?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah, me too. Yeah, me as well. But I don't know. Maybe they've gone to the web. I'm actually pretty curious. I'm going to ask them to find out. I'll have to report back. Four score and seven boosts to go. All right. Well, we're moving right along this episode. And we have a few boosts to get into. And one of our boosts is our ball. Oh, we have a baller booster this week. And he's back.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Very, very similar to what he did with Twitter, right? Yeah. It feels like that to me. I don't know. It... Is it a rug pull if they were never like super official? Rug pull is the word I want to use, but I don't know if that's fair.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Hey, Richland. early congrats on episode 600 I hope I'm the first in honor of episode 600 which past hot take haunts you the most which past hot take on the show haunts us the most hmm so many bad ones yeah yeah there's there's some there's some juicy ones this is a question I'd like to turn around and ask the audience Which hot take sticks out the most?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I got one of mine. I feel like the audience could probably come up with a better one. But during the absolute peak of the butterfly keyboard and just the touch bar and the soldered-on parts and the $800 fixes for the keyboard, I was really convinced that... The Mac line was essentially abandoned and that Apple was just focusing on iOS and that, you know, the Mac was going to wane.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
This is years ago. But then, of course, they pivoted a little bit with that MacBook Pro 16 with the fixed keyboard. But really what they were doing was buying time. for the M series launch. And so they had kind of languished, you know, the Mac mini was a piece of crap for years.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Things had languished indeed, but that was because they were working on the M series stuff and it proved to be very successful for them. And, uh, you know, I don't know if I saw the M I, I, I don't know. Maybe I can't remember. We'd have to go back and see what our take was on if there would be a transition to the M series. Thank you, Turd, for the baller boost this week.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You're definitely doing the heavy lift for this episode. And if anybody else has any hot takes that were just awful, let us know. It'd be fun to cover them on episode 600. Tell us about our failures, please. CB comes in with 12,001 sats. Hey, guys, I'm working on a project that I'm hoping will be the home assistant of home video security. Here's some context.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
My last job was writing enterprise video surveillance software and none of the current available projects met my standards. I've tried them all. Some get close, but just no home run. I've been doing the initial dev privately in my spare time, which I have very little of, but eventually I want to open this project up.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
So I'm not doing it all solo, but I'm wary of doing all the work and then someone else grabbing my code and doing their own thing before the project has a chance. The goal is to be fully open source and, But I would like to have some way to financially support my work that goes into it. With financial support, I can devote more of my time towards the project.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
What is your guys' thoughts on the approach to do something like this and the kind of open source licenses that would be appropriate? That's a big question. First, I want to say to give you some time to think.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I think, CB, you probably have a bigger chance of nobody noticing or caring about your project and nobody helping you than you probably do somebody noticing your project, stealing your idea, and monetizing it before you get a chance. First of all, you're the one with the vision. So they would just be seeing your code, but they don't know what your plan is. They don't know what the vision is.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
They don't have the passion. So I don't think it's a huge risk factor, and I don't know if I would let that prevent you from open sourcing it. Plus... There's copywriting and things like that you can do. But I would consider that the bigger risk, is that nobody cares and notices that so many people notice that you get ripped off.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Well, they launched documentation, but it was kind of vague. At first, people started using it before there was documentation. Right. That was the gist I got. I mean, clearly, they're trying to monetize their API, right? Yeah. But... Yeah, but that's crazy, though, because the software platform of the Teslas is supposed to be one of the value adds.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
There's always a good way to go. I mean, this could be, again, now this is something ChatGPT could probably help you kick around. Or, you know, insert your LLM of choice that's probably read through all these licenses. But I think it's a great idea. I've been excited about it since you first told me about it, CB. And please keep us posted.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Like, if you do get it up there and whatnot, we'll link it out and let everybody know. And thank you for the boost. User 55820033 came in with two rows of ducks, which is... First time booster here in the UK. Hey, hey! Well done. Thank you. It's an extra set of steps, I think, from the UK.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
He says, I listened to the Financial Times daily news briefing podcast with a mild animus when their AI correspondent did her best access journalism to describe OpenAI's exploration of advertising. It seems like the logical next step. I dare to say maybe a final destination for OpenAI, but I still hate it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Advertising in the OpenAI results, in the chat GPT results is coming, Mike. For the free accounts. I think it's coming. I think our booster's right. Yeah, that's a slam dunk. Yeah, and then, of course, at your $200 level, I bet you they do the Elon thing. Because you know on Elon, on the Elon X, if you become a member or whatever, if you pay for the X premium or whatever, you still get ads. Yep.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You still get ads. So they're going to do the same thing, except for you $200 ballers. They won't get ads, but us plebs at $20 a month, we're going to see ads. And I think it's gross. I know there's something about like it goes from being like a library of information to a Walmart of information.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yes, that's it. It's going to become more of that, I think. I hate to say it, but I'm not very enthusiastic about it, obviously. I also want to say thank you for the reminder about the Advent of Codes. I wrote a text for that. He's doing it with Go. Great. Well, thank you very much for the boost.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
And then, you know, having a rich app ecosystem could be potentially badass, especially if some of them are giving you cool stats or helping you find better places to charge. Yeah. That's value-add that Tesla doesn't have to bring. All they have to do is make the API available.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You can go into your fountain profile and set your name and let us know who you is. And we'll give you a shout out. DG at PTC came in with a Jar Jar Boost 5000 sats. You're so boost. When it comes to kids and medications, all the most experienced professionals who see my child, the pediatrician, the pharmacist, psychologist, neurologist, they say no.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
It's the teachers who are not remotely qualified to be discussing medications at all. They are all the most aggressive pill pushers. Parents really need to stand up to our children, especially when the faculty tries to get your child started on amphetamines.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Thank God we have sensible, older, experienced professionals to help disqualify the wild, uninformed, and reckless opinions our school has been slinging lately. Wow. Damn. Love the fire there.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I don't know if it's he or she. Coming in hot with the booze. Yeah. So they definitely did that with my son a couple of times. Really, really for enough where like as a family, we had to have the conversation. Are we going to do this? Are we going to put him on medication? And as a kid who went through late elementary and 70, 75 percent of high school on ADD medication, I was against it.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I did not like the experience. So I tend to lean towards DJ at PTC there.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah, I mean, he was being disruptive. He was bored. He was not behaving all the time. You know, he can sometimes, when somebody tells him to do something, he can ask why. Those kinds of things that aren't great in group settings. That's like kid stuff, though. I know. He's gotten better at it, too.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I remember because when they first started me, I was overmedicated. And so I was a total zombie. It's like he's stoned. And that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the teachers loved it. They love they went on about how great I how well behaved I was, what an improvement has been, what a great student I am. Great, let's sedate 25 kids in the class and see where we go.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah, I mean, I suppose I might want to do it too, but as a teacher, I'll tell you what, I've spent times in my life, can I just sedate these three kids I've got? I kid. All right, our next boost, I'm going to say it's... It's Glavata. And they come in with a 5,000-sat boost, which is a Jar Jar boost. It's a boost. And they are a first-time booster. Two first-timers this episode. That is awesome.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Thank you, everybody. I know that can be a hike, that first journey to get that all set up. I'm glad you found Fountain. I think that probably is the easiest path. He says, thanks for the fun shows and keep it up. Thank you. Thank you for boosting, Mr. G. Jordan Bravo rounds us out with a row of ducks. 2,222 sats. Honest question. Have we already hit peak AI hype? Or is it still ahead of us?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I hope it's the former, but I fear it's the latter. So, you know, Mike, I believe that the reality is we have kind of plateaued on the next wave of innovations for a bit. It's going to be a lot of building, you know, kind of breakthroughs like XAI is doing with how to move the data around. It's going to take, you know, it's going to take like another wave of figuring this stuff out. But,
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
The tech industry can't let that stop, right? The train has to keep moving. Like if you look at the S&P 500, look at the seven companies that make up all of the performance of the S&P 500. Those seven companies almost all have some kind of AI play or almost all AI money. It's the money moving the market right now. If this money train ends, it's devastating.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You know, I will admit, too, that I have a bias because it's a car. And there's just something about it being a car and pulling these kind of, like, App Store games on, like, a $60,000, $70,000 vehicle. Right, right. That I have to maybe, that I would like to own for a decade at least. I don't know. Like, it just sort of, like, touches an extra nerve. But anyways, there is a possible solution.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I mean we'd be looking at massive layoffs. I just saw a story right now about – in fact, we'll cover it – about a story about all the commercial real estate getting bought up because of AI. Like it's a huge deal right now. So I don't think they can afford it. to let the hype train stop. I mean, look at Apple.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
They haven't even fully shipped their AI products yet, and they're probably even only at, like, what, a tiny 5% or something of maybe more, probably less of their user base. We're at the very beginning. We are at the very, very beginning. And they're going to push this autocomplete as far as it can go, I think. Do you agree, Mike?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
We're just at the beginning, or do you think we're kind of over the hype cycle?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah, what you might see is... Okay, I'm following your lead here, and I'm thinking what you might see is the big companies kind of slow down and the features become more iterative, but you start seeing what has been developed adopted further down the market stack. So maybe companies start putting chat GPD embeds for support instead of those stupid, crappy, live pop-up things that they have.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You start seeing implementations... of this stuff that just you know make tiny small improvements to a small business maybe that small business doesn't have to hire one person something really minor but you magnify it across you know a million small businesses and it starts to actually make a difference i mean i could see that kind of thing it's a good question We'll just have to wait and see.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Thank you, everybody who does boost in. We had 21 of you stream sats, and we stacked a humble 16,939 sats from you sat streamers. Thank you very much. And when you combine that with those of you who boosted in, we had a very humble 164,895 sats, which thank you very much. That gets split between myself, Mr. Dominic, Editor Drew, and the network.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
And if you'd like to support the show via a boost, the easiest way is Fountain FM and then load it up with Strike, which is available in like 110 countries. But if you're in Canada, I think Bitcoin Well is probably a better way to go. And there's a whole bunch of solutions at podcastapps.com. I think Fountain is probably the easiest way to get started, but there's a lot for you to choose from.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
And thank you, everybody, who boosts. Boost! Now, before we get out of here, this was fascinating. So I talked about this earlier. San Francisco offices were a disaster scenario, like getting discounted down 70% until certain businesses realized that return to office could be a perk, I guess.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
There has been somewhat of a demand for in-person work, at least according to CNBC, who says Gen Z professionals are seeking more collaborative in-person work environments, reflecting a shift in attitude after years of remote work. And so they cite a couple examples of these new AI startups that offer four-day in-office schedules. They think that's just a little bit more engaging.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
So you still get some remote work, but you do four days in office. Others are saying they're going to prioritize office-first cultures as a strategic choice in hiring. The market demand for this in San Francisco has been kind of a big deal. San Francisco vacancies hit 34.9%, but AI startups like OpenAI and Sierra AI, they're snapping it up.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
In fact, they now account for a significant share of the entire real estate market in San Francisco. 62% of AI-related leases in 2023 were subleases, reflecting the trend of sharing office space among multiple startups instead of renting entire floors, too. I guess it's a good price right now. That's probably why.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
But I wanted to get your thoughts on a perk and the company focusing this as a perk is like you're going to be in the office. Some of it's like you're going to be here a few days and some of it's like, no, it's 100 percent office. And they think that this is something that Gen Z craves. Young professionals value connection and energy of in-person work, they say. OK.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Get ready for this. Tesla's heard some of the complaints, and their workaround is to offer users a $10 credit towards personal API use. So the individual users, in theory, would then start paying for the API usage.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
It's a back to basic shift, they say. Something about it. I don't know. I mean, I guess. Here's what I do think is smart, is if you are going to seriously lean in on being an in-office workplace, you should totally present that way and appeal to candidates that are looking for that. I think that part makes sense. I don't buy the Gen Z in particular for some reason. I don't see why Gen Z...
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Would be more into remote work than Gen X or the millennials, right? Or less into remote work, I guess. That part doesn't really... I guess I don't understand why it would be Gen Z that's so into going back into the office or whatever.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
No, no, it's collaborative. No, it's that collaborative energy, man. Yeah, okay. They want to have that collaborative in-person... Energy of sitting in a cubicle and then walking past people that you want to avoid most of the day.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah. Well, maybe it's because you're an old man. And, you know, if you were a Gen Z looking at an AI startup, you'd want to go back to the office. It's true.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Honestly. Honestly. If you're going to be living in California, living in San Francisco, you might as well go into the office. I don't know. To me, it feels like we really are stuck on this stupid – we're really trying to put everything into a box. For me, there are some days I work from home. There are some days I come into the studio.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
It kind of just depends on what my workload is, and I don't try to label it as hybrid work or four days in office and two days home or whatever. I don't even try to put it in a box like that. It's just whatever the job needs is what I'll do. That just seems natural.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
And corporate America, and especially the media, always wants to just put everything in a category, give everything a label, and then they even want to slice it up by age group and types of work. And I just don't think it actually works out like that. It's just a convenient narrative. But it is interesting that the AI startup companies are taking a lot of that VC money and snapping up
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
subleases on a bunch of San Francisco real estate. That's what they're doing with that money. Because they're all just plugging into the OpenAI API anyways, right? That's right. Anyways, we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Boost didn't tell me what I got wrong, but just the way it looks to me. Mr. Dominic, is there anywhere you'd like to send people this week before we scoot?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
All right. We'll forgive you. It's probably better that way. Keep it a little bit of mystery. If they want to know what's going on with Mike, they got to tune into the show. They can't cheat on the show by not listening and just getting on social. I guess I don't post much either, but if you want to experiment with Nostra, you can find me over there, chrislas.com. Also on WeaponX.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
And you can email the show. There is a contact page and all that goodness over there. In fact, speaking of that web page, it's got links to all kinds of stuff. Our RSS feed, our live page, our matrix chat room, all the good stuff that's going on all the time.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Plus, you can go to coder.show slash 599er and you can get links to everything we talked about, including links to that weird real estate article. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Gen Z does all want to work in the office. You tell me. Boost in, because for God's sake, we could use the support and tell me what you think. Are they all just touchy-feely? Is that what's going on?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
What's going on over there? You tell me. All right. Thank you so much for listening on this week's episode. See you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
God. Well, speaking of open AI, I wanted to chat with you about something that is a fundamental land shift that I don't think the rest of the tech world has fully processed yet. Some corners have, but definitely not the folks over at The Verge and the general like tech bro press. And that was since last episode, Donald Trump named David Sachs as the White House AI and crypto czar.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
So this is an interesting position because it's one of these czar positions. Here's what Trump said. Quote, David will guide policy for the administration in artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency, two areas critical to the future of America's competitiveness. David will focus on making the clear – making America the clear global leader in both areas. Trump said on a true social post.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
So David Sachs, I've actually – we may have mentioned him on the show before because he's one of the original PayPal mafia founders. He's kind of a big Silicon Valley VC guy. He was kind of famous for dumping on Solana users back in the bear market. And now he's going to be running AI and crypto from the White House. But there's an interesting thing about David Sachs.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I'm all right. I'm all right. I got a fired up email this morning from a very disgruntled listener. He wasn't mad at us for a change, though. That was good. But he turned me on to the situation going on over at Tesla. I guess he writes an app, I guess, that you can install on your Tesla car. And there's a big change happening where I guess he just had free access to the API in the past.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
First of all, David Sachs is besties with Elon Musk. Elon Musk is in heavy conflict with Sam Altman and OpenAI. And David Sachs, from the very beginning, has clearly seen Sam's playbook, the same playbook that we noticed. I've been doing some research on David. I don't know a lot about him. I can't speak to him very comprehensively.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
But I did find this clip of David Sachs talking about Sam Altman's strategy the day that Sam Altman went to the Senate and tried to scare all the senators about the dangers of AI. These were David's thoughts. And this is going to be now the guy making – AI policy for the White House and making recommendations to the councils.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Something we had noticed as well, this – Regulatory moat that Sam was trying to build. And to do it, he scared the out of everyone about the dangers of AI, about how it could impact the election, misinformation, all these things leaned heavily into the regulation and the entire play. And with this one appointment, all of that has been essentially washed away.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I mean, not the fear that he created, but all the power he gained and influence over the executive office and And all of that has essentially been washed away because now Elon's best buddy is in the White House making AI policy. And Sachs is on the record saying that Sam was trying to make a regulatory moat.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
And I believe Sachs is also on the record for being a proponent of open source AI and specifically what Meta is doing with Lama. It is, Mike, the train, the AI train, with all this regulation and burden licensing that was just speeding down the track, just did an impossible 180 in my opinion.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I mean we're not there yet, but this could be a ginormous land shift in the power structure and regulatory structure around this future industry.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Then last year they released documentation kind of like making the API seem official. And then this week they've now announced that the APIs in the Tesla system are going to be pay per use and they're massive fees. And you have to pay per vehicle. And some developers with their current API usage would be looking at millions of dollars annually in fees.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
We're going to talk about that. Even without Sachs there, though, Elon is besties with Trump. And this is a major bone of contention that Elon has. You know, like, I don't know if you saw, but Sam was being interviewed by CNBC. And he says, oh, I really hope that Elon and I can get past this. It's really kind of a sad statement. He seems really kind of down about the whole thing.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Like, this is a big shift for Sam. He's got Sachs possibly influencing AI policy, and Elon and Trump's here saying that AI is one of the next frontiers for America, and I don't like this Altman guy.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Yeah. I don't know if it was intentional, but it was a master flip of the situation.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Sensitivity. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. I couldn't even get it to give me some answers about the White House or generate an image of a rabbit in the White House because it's so sensitive about that stuff right now.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Agreed. Agreed. I think it's a fascinating development that we don't fully understand yet, but feels like not a lot of people are fully appreciating. It's a huge power shift. For a minute there, Sam was playing the government like a fiddle. He had them eating out of his hands, and he leaned into that. And it's part of what gave OpenAI, I believe, its enormous valuation is that
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Sam was openly embracing regulation. So he was signaling to Wall Street that he was going to play ball and that he could become one of the big players and have a moat. He was signaling to investors, too.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Only to have perhaps the key aspects of the strategy just cut off at its knees literally a year later that one of the hearings were the most recent hearings where Sam was scaring senators like a year ago, almost to the week. And then here we are. It's fascinating. I didn't see this one coming. No, it's definitely going to have an effect. So we'll see. Did you know you can join us live?
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
We do the show live typically on Tuesdays at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. We also have a chat room going all the time, but they're helping us a lot during the show. You can hang out in there at coder.show.matrix. The stream usually gets started about a half hour or so early, and I'm now making that available to our Coder QA members as well.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You can listen in a podcasting 2.0 app, or you can just plug jblive.fm into your internet radio app of choice. And you members out there, you don't have to worry. You just now have your own private feed, and you get it. In fact, you get the show a day early as well. So if you want to become a member, that's at coder.show slash membership. All right, you hinted at this.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
I couldn't believe it when I saw this. OpenAI has launched a $200 a month subscription, and it's pretty tough to even tell what you get because Pro is $20, right? Or no, no, I'm sorry. I guess it was – I don't even know the names, dude. But like the old version – which I thought was called Pro, is $20. And now the new version, which is called Pro, is $200. And you're trying it out.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
So there's this developer that makes this app called Tessie. He's looking at $60 million under the new system. And so the guy that I heard from, he's just going to have to stop using it altogether. He's just done. Other people are going to try to break it and use unofficial APIs. Other people will try to bypass it by connecting over Bluetooth and doing things that way.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
Are you serious, dude? $200 a month? So you get unlimited access to the new reasoning model. You get unlimited access to the voice model. Oh, so it's okay. So it's plus is the $20 tier is what it's called.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
That's what I felt like when I went from the free to the pro tier or plus tier plus tier. God. Yeah.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
You know, I did see them specifically mention it's supposed to be better at assistive coding.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
They really seem to be, well, their positioning of this seems to be, well, if you need advanced reasoning, then you know why you're spending $200, right? They're kind of like, if you have to ask why $200, then you don't need this tier. It's for people that really use ChatGPT. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to try it out more.
Coder Radio
599: GPU Game Theory
In the last two weeks, I have found it immensely helpful sorting out just like small business questions and things that I would probably almost be willing to pay somebody to ask, but I wouldn't even know who to ask. So there's things that can be very useful. And I've been using it more and more. And so I signed up.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Yeah, generally. And if you're just tabbing out, then you might as well just be listening to audio.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Especially if you're looking for information about something, having to skim through a 14 minute video where they're going to have an intro, they're going to have a like and subscribe, they're going to have a sponsor plug and then they're going to have something else in there. And you're just trying to get the it's like it's like the old meme about.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Recipes, how you have to read their life story before you get the recipe, that's what YouTube is for anything that's instructional. It can be useful if you need a visual demonstration, no doubt about it. I find it very useful when I'm looking how to fix something on the car.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
But if I'm just looking for information about how to install a piece of software and I want to know what the flags are for when I launch the application, I don't want to watch a video for that. I just want something written down.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
The only way this would be useful is if I had all the knobs. Like if I could give it the RSS feeds and I could tune what they focus on, what they actually go deep on, what stupid stuff they don't bother saying, what they pretend they are. If I could tweak all the knobs and generate a personalized feed of news that is actually useful and consumable, All right, make that a product for me, Google.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
But I don't want a podcast directory that is just full of AI-generated podcasts that are all essentially talking the same nonsense. Let's be honest. They say a few interesting things and they do go in a few interesting details. But a lot of it is analogies and generals that they just kind of agree with. Somebody will make an analogy and then somebody says, oh, yeah, that's exactly right.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And it's like, well, that's barely right. That's what a lot of it is, and it's not very high-quality content, so I can't imagine any of it's going to pull down a lot of views. What I can imagine is it is going to soak up a lot of dynamic ads, and I can also imagine it's going to make browsing podcast directories a lot more cluttered, and there's already a lot of noise in there.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
So that I'm not super thrilled about. But, you know, if I could actually have a tool like this that I could curate and generate and it was decent to listen to and they made interesting, insightful points. Well, that would be great, but I don't think that's possible with an LLM because the LLM has to go off of stuff that it already knows.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And that's where the human component is always going to come in, is the original analysis with experience and context and understanding and a little bit of opinion in there sometimes. And that's going to be the unique content that the LLMs will then consume. But somebody has to be out there ahead of that generating the unique stuff that the machine is going to eat up and spit back out.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Okay. Well, okay. So since you brought it up, before we move on, do you think they're going to kill it and just like maybe roll some small aspect of it into another?
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Yeah, though supposedly it's using Gemini for some of the analysis on the back end, but they're not really branding it like that if it's true.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
I will continue to play with it because where I would find it useful and have played with just briefly and it's not useful enough yet is I gave it like 10 sources on a topic. And it was PDFs and it was YouTube videos and it was multiple YouTube videos and multiple articles. Oh, I did this for – I also did this for the Sonos app drama. I just wanted to see what its take was.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And your buddy Paul Theriot has, like, the chronicle of all of the Sonos app drama. From, like, you know, Sonos has a new app to, like, everything, to the CEO apology, all of it. So I fed it all of Theriot's coverage. I fed it some YouTuber coverage. And I fed it some sort of, like, breakdown of the problems that somebody had in a PDF. And I had it generate me a podcast about the Sonos app. Sonos.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Sorry, too many Sonos. The Sonos stuff. And it was decent. It was pretty good. And again, if I could go in there and have it tuned a little bit, like maybe that'd be a way for me to take a bunch of research and distill it down and listen to it while I'm driving and maybe inform my coverage. But not yet. It's not there. And it doesn't seem like that's the direction they're going.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
But that's the kind of tooling if it was a tool that I could use. That I would take advantage of. And I think a lot of us could. You know, something comes out. You could throw a new version of Python comes out. You want to know what it does? You throw the release notes in there and it makes a podcast for you about it just for you.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
If it could actually get to the right stuff and they could make it entertaining, probably not. But maybe.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
All right. We got some business to get to this week. Buckle up, Mr. Dominick, because we have some boosts. And Maximilian comes in as our baller this week with 1,100,000 sets. Hey, Richard! And he writes, Maximilian writes, Jupiter Party member here, love all the shows, but Coder is my favorite. I'm boosting in to support Python as the official language of the Coder Radio program.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Get out of here. But yeah, you got to take that portable battery unit you've got and make sure you get it charged up and don't get it wet. Oh, yeah. It's charged up. It's off the ground. Good. There we go. Wow. So we are doing a double this week as we record just to kind of have buffer, just a case and things like that.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
The snakes have done it. That's a massive baller boost by Maximilian. And as is tradition, as a thank you, we have a new song to celebrate the official language of the Coder Radio program.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
There you have it. The snakes are in charge. Python is the official language of the Coder Radio program. Thank you to Maximilian. You are our baller this week. He also supports us as a Jupiter Party member, too, so he's just a great guy.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
That's pretty great. Adversary 17, or Adversary 17, your choice comes in with 91,442 sats, which is no shabby amount either. I hoard that which all kind covet. He writes, I'm emptying my fountain because we have Clippy that sort of works already. Install the Rust toolchain, and you've got Clippy. What is he referring to? Do you have... Clippy with the Rust toolchain.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Did we talk about doing some Googling really quick to see if I can? We have notes.jupiterbroadcasting.com, by the way. I don't see about that. Yeah, but follow up. Let me know. I appreciate the boost. That's also a fantastic boost. Hybrid sarcasm is also a baller this week. With 100,000 sats. What hurricane? Thanks, Mike, for sacrificing your prep time for us listeners. We don't deserve you.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
He sent that in this morning as a thank you. No problem. He loves the listeners. He loves the listeners. We stay here for the people. Thank you for the mega boosts, adversaries, Maximilian and Hybrid. We really appreciate it. We appreciate all the boosts, but those are some really great ones. BHH32 is back with the boosts, and he comes in with 20,000 sets. Boost! It's a nice one.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
He says, I realize a lot of things are Electron or web apps. Yeah. That is accurate. However, I believe, and I'm most likely wrong, that native applications are better because of the native integration that can happen. The reason things are currently web apps or Electron is because that's what we've allowed. There is the demand for cross-platform, and we didn't have anything else at the moment.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
So we will not be live next week, but there's so much to get into and we want to try to get to it as fast as we can this week. Because Google has been ordered to support alternative app stores and payment methods in the Play Store. Payment methods as well. This is that lawsuit with Epic Games. Yesterday as we record, so a couple days ago as you were listening to this, a U.S.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
However, with the rise of Rust, Go, and other languages, all we have to do is put specific config calls in the code and then compile once or twice if you're going to ARM. I create it, and I am still working on a tail-scale GUI applet for Cosmic written in libcosmic. However, theoretically, it would run on macOS or Windows, just minus the panel integration.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
I did end up creating a couple of tutorials and posting them on my website if anyone is interested. His website is bhh32.com. It's the first blog I've ever written on, I've ever posted to my site. Oh, I guess he's had the blog. This is the first one he's ever written. I enjoy it, so I hope you all enjoy it as much as I enjoyed writing it. Thank you, BHH. Yeah, it's super cool. Appreciate that.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
I do, man. I am all up in that Tailscale biz. They really should sponsor the show more. Tailscale, if you're out there, come on in. We like you because I have all my infra on Tailscale. Tomato comes in with 7,222 sats. Put some macaroni and cheese on there, too.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Regarding the California AI bill, in that clip, Newsom almost sounded like he was going to push for regulation for the use of AI as a tool for specific purposes. Then he went off the rails, got drunk, and watched The Terminator again. Ha, ha, ha. You know, there's actually a story out there that Biden decided that he wanted to take he wanted to write his AI executive order after watching Top Gear.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Oh, God. A new Top Gear movie. Go look it up. It's a real story. I think it's a cover story, but it's it's out there.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
It's crazy, right? Tomatoes says, I do think there's a big need for AI regulation, but completely differently. Anywhere that a human judgment is needed, anywhere that logic behind a decision is needed to be reviewed, AI is a poor tool. There will technically be a reason for its decision, but not in a way that makes sense to people.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
That ought to be explicitly forbidden in certain sensitive areas like policing, courts, insurance adjustments, etc. Ah, interesting. Yeah. I've never really thought about specific industries like don't use AI to do these tasks. That's interesting. It says he's glad you made it through the hurricane. All right. Don't forget that the reason Huawei stops shipping Android updates is because the U.S.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
government forced them to. God forbid a Chinese company have military contracts, unlike literally every U.S. tech company. Huawei does seem to have some cool devices. I sometimes have some FOMO. They do have a fun name, Huawei. Huawei. Thank you very much, Tomato. It was good to hear from you. VT52 comes in with a Jar Jar Boost 5,000 cents. You're so boost! Dtrace, maybe it is eBPF after all.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
He says, the project is a work in progress and allows existing... Oh, yeah, okay, eBPF for Windows. They're working on eBPF for Windows and moving some of the eBPF tool chains and APIs from Million Linux ecosystem to run on top of Windows. Man, how good is Microsoft taking the best bits of Linux and just grafting it on top of that NT kernel, right? They're just so good at that. Wow.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
They're going to make an API compatibility later with eBPF Linux kernel apps. That's interesting. Look at WSL Go. Spectris comes in with Rodex. I have the second gen AirPod Pros. Conversation awareness is great. Walking the dog, I can stop to talk to the neighbors anytime. No grabbing my ear to pause or pull them out. Okay, so I was wondering about that.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Don't people still think it's weird that you have them in when you're talking to them? Because I've noticed two types of people in the world. Those who will just start talking to you. I had a guy scare the crap out of me. Just came, walked up behind me, and I had silence mode on because there's people out doing yard work. And he starts talking to me, scared the crap out of me.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
judge decided that Google Play has to, or the Google Play Store is an illegal monopoly. And Google has been ordered to make multiple changes as a result. Google is going to need to allow Android users to download rival app stores like the Epic Game Store from within Google Play.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And then I have other people who won't talk to me. And they'll point to the ear. You got your AirPods in? Did you take your AirPods out? And they won't talk to you. So I feel like this conversational awareness feature is good, but it doesn't solve like the social stuff. I don't know. I think I'm going to pick something up that is conversational awareness though and try it out.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Did you ever end up getting – you did get a new set of AirPods.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Oh, yeah. The one pod is my kind of compromise. But then I worry that I'm like wrecking the battery of the one pod.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
All you got to do is, first of all, you get your $300 AirPods. And then, of course, you got to have your $1,200 phone that you pair it to. And then you get yourself a $600 watch. And then what you can do is raise your wrist and tap your fingers to pause the audio. Problem solved.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Something like that, yeah. All right. That wraps up the Boost segment for this week. We had some streamers out there, 17 of you. Altogether, while you were listening and streaming those stats, you sent in 20,000. 477 sats. Thank you very much, our sat streamers. We see you and appreciate you.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Combined with our boosters, and of course we had some nice baller boosts this week, we stacked an incredible 1,146,663 sats. You're so much better. Thank you very much, everybody. We really appreciate that. If you'd like to get in on the fun, you just need a new podcast app and some stats. We'll have links in the show notes for that to make it really easy. Fountain.fm is my go-to.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Cast-O-Matic's great on iOS. Podcast Guru, Guru, lots of them over at podcastapps.com. And, of course, our members out there supporting us with their autopilot support at coder.show slash membership. Now, we won't have any boosts next week because it is going to be a prerecord, but do send them in because then it'll become clear why soon.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Plus, it's required to allow third-party app stores to distribute Google Play apps unless the developers opt out of providing their apps through alternative app stores. Google can no longer require developers to use Google Play Billing.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
I'm looking for examples of companies that have done dev relations well. So boost in if you know of a good example or... A bad one. I'm looking for those two of companies that have good or bad dev relations, either departments or attempts, schemes, whatever it might be. And my reasoning will become clear soon. Mr. Dominic, is there anywhere you want to send the good people?
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
This is Coda Radio, episode 590, recorded on October 8th, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupiter Broadcasting's weekly talk show, taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business, the software development, and the world of technology. My name is Chris, and joining us from a rather stormy location, it's our host, Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike. Yar, mount your gator and get your jaeger.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
The pod has got an X handle, at Coder Radio Show, which is probably just useful for when we're going live, I guess, because we don't... I don't know. I don't know. Man, it's you. I don't know how you do your social media, but if you want to do it, at Coder Radio Show, okay? Just fine. There you know. You have it now. Links to what we talked about today. Yeah, we got those.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
See, it's a simple formula. It's Coder.show slash... All right, that's fine. You got it. Contact forms over there, RSS feeds over there as well, and also the whole back catalog. And we'd love to have you join us. We won't be live next week, but when we are live, we put it in a podcasting 2.0 app or we have it at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Coder Radio Program, and we'll see you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Also, developers will also be able to link to alternative installation options in their apps and will also have the ability to let customers know about other ways to make purchases outside of Google's ecosystem. And Google is now prohibited from offering carriers and device makers financial incentives to preinstall the Play Store. Now, the revenue stream gone.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
But Google can charge for, quote, reasonable measures. to implement and preserve user safety and security related to apps and app stores downloaded through Google Play.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Google has to keep these changes in place for three years, and it begins on November 1st, 2024.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
It's like a stay, maybe it's called. It's an appeal stay. It's a stay, yeah. Yeah, Google, they say they confirmed they will appeal it. Shocker. Plans to ask the court to just hold on while they try to sort all this out. You know, Google tries to make the point. This is a quote from their blog. Android is open, and Google Play is not the only way to get apps.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
The decision fails to take into account that Android is an open platform, and developers have always had many options in how to distribute their apps. In fact... and I'm sure they're probably talking about outside the States. Most Android devices come preloaded with two or more app stores right out of the box.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Developers have other options too, such as offering their apps directly to users from their website. As long as they have sideloading turned on. So they're coming in hot saying, you know, this is the whole thing's bogus. It's out. It's already open enough. People can sideload apps, yada, yada, yada, yada. And that's going to be, I think their core argument. And I will say,
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
It is why I switched to a Pixel, the App Store stuff, because I could sideload another App Store. This one is not really even an App Store. It's called Obtanium. And it's a front end to just pull APKs off of GitHub and GitLab and other sources. And it just manages the updates for you. And there is no App Store. It's not even using F-Droid.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
It's time for Milton. Oh, God. I guess that's the spirit you have to have down there. I mean, you got to get rich and get a second home or something, you know?
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And if I'm going to use this phone for serious things like really private family communications or finance, I don't know, man. I got to be able to get to the file system. I got to be able to install my own apps. I don't even want some of these apps to go through Apple or Google. That's interesting. Yeah.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Yeah, to me, they're more of a risk than they are an asset because there's a core set of apps. I've vetted the projects or the applications myself. I know I'm not typical, but I'm just saying the openness of the Android platform as it stands today has been enough for me to use. I have F-Droid, Play, and I have Obtanium. And I have three app stores on one device, and it all works really well.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
I don't know. Maybe Google kind of has a point here. Maybe I don't need to be able to install F-Droid from the Play Store. I know it would make it a lot better for these projects. It's way better for them, obviously. And maybe it avoids people getting scam apps more.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Get some good VC money, get a crazy AI idea going, and just get to a cabin somewhere out of there when these storms come rolling in.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Yeah, I think your take is – I think your take is spot on. Like some of this is going to definitely get loosened up. Some of the – because Google can argue that some of this is a burden on them, that it's going to cost them more than that they're ever going to be able to fairly charge developers, et cetera. So they're going to be able to argue that point as well. But I do think you're right.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Some of these things are going to stick. What I find kind of interesting is how quick – November 1st, that's – as far as – At the speed of the courts, that's not a lot of time.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Google's lawyers might be working through the holiday. Coming up. I don't know. Part of me would love to see it. I kind of wish it could happen, all of it. Because I do think these devices are people's primary computing devices for a lot of folks. Oh, yeah. And it would make it more like an actual computer.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Because if you get a phone, say you go buy a new phone or somebody gifts you a phone, you get it, it's going to have the Play Store on there. And you're not necessarily going to know how to sideload applications, etc., but... Is it so bad if Epic wants to add their own store? I'm not so sure. Maybe, maybe not. Probably all depends on implementation.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
You know, you move here, we'll have one of our 100-year earthquakes, though.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Or some sort of – like you can buy the M-Gain currency for – I don't know, you know, like something, right?
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Yeah. Do you think it would create a race to the bottom, like Gigatex will say in the live chat? Like if you have more app stores, does that put somehow more downward pressure on app prices and make it,
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
I have no doubt about that. Maybe, like you say, Fortnite players or some other popular application or game. Yeah. They all want their own little fiefdoms, right? They all want their own little kingdoms. And once you become a big enough app developer or whatever, it's not good enough to use the platform store. You've got to have your own ecosystem.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
I don't know. We'll see. I'll keep an eye on it and see if there's any updates and we'll cover it in the show. Coder.show slash membership. The Coder Radio program has been listener-supported for over a year now, and we're incredibly grateful for that. We give you an ad-free version of the show as a thank you as well as the Coderly, which there's quite a few of them now.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
So if you've just become a member, there's a back catalog you can download directly. You get your own private RSS feed, and you get a special edition of the show just for you. Then, of course, we also have our boosters who like to just do it at their own accord, at their own schedule, at their own amount, as they see fit.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And as a thank you, we read their messages that are above 2,000 sats on the show each episode, which always turns out some great organic content that we never planned on, some of the best conversations. So I'm just really grateful for your support, and if you enjoy the Coder Radio program, I hope you consider doing it. That's coder.show slash membership, or you can boost with a new podcast app.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
You can find those at podcastapps.com. So last week, we played a clip of that Google Deep Dive podcast where it had an existential crisis when it revealed it was an AI. That thing has gone viral in the last week. And the Wall Street Journal has – well, it's kind of a puff piece overall. But there's a few notable tidbits in here that I wanted to pull out for you.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
So this Notebook LM thing has been around for a while now. But the audio feature – That came out a little bit more recently, I think in August, where it generates the podcast. And I was just experimenting with it this morning. They've made tweaks and updates to it this morning and how it works.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
But the thing that I find kind of interesting about this is, well, this is really Google's first viral AI hit since ChatGPT has been a thing for a couple of years. And this is also from like a little Skunk Works Google Labs division that that kind of has these one-off projects where they kind of have their own philosophy that doesn't necessarily jive with the rest of Google.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Yeah, I mean, and now Milton's on its way to Florida as we record. Should never have taken a stapler. Is that looking like it's going to be in – are you in the path of that? Direct it. Yeah, it's a pretty – yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Yeah, they'll muck it up real good, right? So I guess it's kind of fascinating. So the small lean mean team inside Google that was able to no doubt leverage all of the tooling and voice work and all of that Gemini work that's been done by the rest of the Google company. But this little strike group created this notebook LM and then this podcasting aspect was another small team.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And they were just trying to come up with ways to make it useful. And that's how they came on this. They said it was also counterintuitive, but to make it sound more natural, they had to kind of make them rougher, as they put it. They said, quote, if you have two perfect scripts talking to each other in complete sentences, nobody would listen to it. It would just sound too robotic.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Instead, they had to make them speak like actual people and put like and um and you know. Sometimes they pause or even stammer a little bit. They reinforce each other's points with totally and oh, 100 percent. And yeah, which is sometimes really weird. But, you know, they try to make it conversational. And you're not going to believe this.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
But, of course, there's already a group of folks that are quite worked up about this. They're concerned that it's going to collapse the podcast industry because essentially going to dump a bunch of.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
podcasts onto the market and then they're going to get you know dynamic ads which are then going to just completely dump this rate of ads that remain um and so listen notes has been tracking how many ai podcasts that are on the market now and this is according to their list that they have on github there are now 282 ai generated podcasts most of them hosted on anchor
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Most of them, not all, but most of them generated by this Google Notebook LLM deep dive tool. And they've put them out. They've got full branding. Some of them have sponsorships. They've got RSS feeds. Most of them, because I mean, I looked at like probably a dozen. I listened to like two. Not one of them that I reviewed disclosed that it was an AI podcast.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Nowhere in there does it say this is an auto-generated show. It makes it – in fact, a lot of them present themselves as experts going in deep or they'll say something like – they'll kind of work in deep dive somehow somewhere in there. But they'll never admit to being – well, the ones I looked at don't admit to being an automatically generated podcast. Or even like Notebook LM. And it's wild.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
And they sound decent enough that they can kind of trick you, I think, if you didn't know this was a thing in the market. And here we are. Here we are like a few weeks after this thing has become an official tool. There's already almost 300 podcasts. I don't know, man. To me, it's just, I don't know, it's probably just a flash in the pan. I mean, these things aren't really good enough yet.
Coder Radio
590: Google’s Loss is Our Win
Corporate branded podcasts that are auto generated. Yes. Yeah.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
This is Coda Radio, episode 602 for January 7th, 2025. Hey friend, welcome back to Jupyter Broadcasting's weekly talk show. Taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is Chris and joining us for our first episode of 2025, it's our host, Mr. Dahmer. Hello, Mike. Hello, hello, hello. How you doing over there? You good?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, the GPUs that they announced look great, but they're just getting ridiculous at the price level now. You know, they started at like $1,000 and go up from there.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
That's what I was thinking. Yeah. I was hoping so. I agree with you. I think for us, the most interesting thing out of all of this might be project digits. They claim it's 1,000 times more powerful than the average laptop. It's using their GB10 chip. Absolutely nothing. 128 gigs of unified memory, 4 terabytes up to 4 terabytes of NVMe storage.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And the key idea here is out of the box, it supports things like PyTorch and Jupyter Notebooks. And it's based on their NVIDIA DGX OS, which is Linux. And according to Perplexity, it is based on Ubuntu 22.04 with the 5.15 kernel. And, of course, DGX OS provides access to all the different NVIDIA GPU driver branches and CUDA toolkit versions.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
So you have a wide range of compatibility with this thing. Yep. And then, you know, the other thing that they offer, which I didn't really realize until I dug into this, is you can also just install their NVIDIA DGX software stack on a regular Ubuntu system and get a lot of the things that this box has. But this box... At $3,000, so if you compare it to a $3,000 Mac, it kind of cooks.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It's legitimately competitive with some of the high-end M4 configurations and beats it. And it also has twice the memory bandwidth of the M4 Pro with 14 times the compute than the M4 Pro. So at $3,000, it beats... I mean, it kicks the crap out of a $4,700 Mac. I mean, you can go up the price stack, and it's still kicking the crap out of the Mac if you're doing this type of work.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And it's also ARM-based. It's a media tech, but I don't know. I guess you care more about the GPUs than AI acceleration anyways. And it's got Linux on this thing. It's an Ubuntu-based ARM from NVIDIA, and then people on X are already talking about how they're likely going to stack them together, and you're going to get to pretty incredible numbers.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
The thing has 250 teraflops in it, which is not bad at all. I mean, you think about just how much a GPU costs, a high-end NVIDIA card to do this stuff. And this thing starts getting a lot more reasonable in the price. So the base model runs up to 200 billion parameters.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah, well, and then I think the other thing that we're kind of discounting, but, you know, when you think about it, it's kind of a big deal, is the NVIDIA brand, right? So if you're a company and you're working on some big project in-house and you're using the CUDA stack... wouldn't you be pretty inclined to go with the NVIDIA-branded stuff?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah, so my take on all of this after watching the CES coverage is that NVIDIA remains kind of the AI king. Intel had some announcements. AMD had some announcements. People aren't really talking about that. But I think it also means, and I wonder if you agree, that This is a huge third-party risk, NVIDIA. The expansion of this entire AI market seems to kind of live and die on NVIDIA.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Microsoft is going to spend billions, tens of billions of dollars on AI build-out this year, they announced. And something like 30% of that spend or 40% of that spend is just NVIDIA hardware. So if NVIDIA stumbles next year, this is over. Right.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Don't you think like this whole AI train has this critical third party dependency on NVIDIA continuing to be able to innovate and put systems out that are faster and faster and faster. And what if we see the M effect here where the first few generations, like we've been witnessing, are quite large leaps in performance. But as time goes on. we start to see smaller and smaller gains.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It's just not. He's always trying to also skate ahead a little bit. So he's always pre-selling. Also, over the weekend, they said that he thinks they're probably going to have AGI figured out within Trump's term. Probably.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It just seems like naturally where this heads. We're headed for some sort of eventual point where NVIDIA can't keep up on the hardware side. And then what happens to the software side and everybody working on these projects?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I don't know, but you've got to assume that several companies are working on this. Qualicom also announced they're working on something that companies will be able to use. Apple's building a lot of these capabilities into their SOCs. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Actually, okay, I'm going to take the positive side of this.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Maybe the market ends up having a whole plethora of options, and by the time NVIDIA starts losing steam, others are picking up. Could also be that the trend towards smaller models continues, and it's only in the cloud area where you need more and more, and perhaps just adding more of the existing systems will do. I don't know, but I'd like the audience to boost in.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Do you think anybody can catch up to NVIDIA? And do you think NVIDIA is about to run out of steam, I suppose? That's really the question, is can they keep this going? And does it all kind of depend on NVIDIA keeping it going? Let us know. Well, I hate it. You hate it. Even the chair of the Federal Reserve hates it. But it's true. Inflation is here to stay for years.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
If you're a Bitcoiner or maybe you're Bitcoin curious looking for a long term inflation hedge, you're probably looking for a trustworthy and easy way to buy Bitcoin and store it safely. There's a lot of options. Not all of them are very good. So let me introduce you to the Bitcoin Well. It's a non-custodial Bitcoin platform. It puts you in control. Go to Coder.show slash Bitcoin to get started.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
That gives us the credit for your visit. Now, why the Bitcoin Well? Well, I had a chance to meet them over the holiday break. And what I learned is they have built the entire platform around you having custody of your keys, your Bitcoin keys. your keys, you're always in control of your assets at all time. You buy and sell directly from your private wallet and they support Lightning and on-chain.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
So when you start with the Bitcoin well, you start with self-custody. which means you avoid having to move over later. And when you have self-custody, there's a peace of mind that comes with that. Bitcoin's a long-term holding asset, four years or longer. And things can be a little uncertain during those periods. Self-custody gives you a peace of mind that is just massive.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Bitcoin Well is based in Canada. They've got a wide range of services to the locals. I was extremely impressed. And they're introducing more and more of those now to the U.S. for a little while now. Like last week, they just rolled out BillPay right here in the States. You can actually do bill pay with your Bitcoin from your lightning wallet, from your self-custodial lightning wallet.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Well, as you remember, there's that clause with the Microsoft deal that says once they get to AGI, the deal's over. They're free. It sounds like OpenAI might want to reconsider that deal because they need the money. So they might need to come back to Microsoft and beg a bit more.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It's really awesome. They also have the Bitcoin Well Infinite, which is a premium over-the-counter solution for high-volume transactions, like family offices or businesses that are ready to just do a large transaction. They have great pricing, lots of educational resources. But the most important thing is a focus on you owning your Bitcoin well.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
The Bitcoin Well is redefining how we can interact with Bitcoin, peer-to-peer money the way it was meant to be. So head over to Coder.show slash Bitcoin to learn more and get started. It's the Bitcoin Well, the way Bitcoin was meant to be. Go to Coder.show slash Bitcoin. Thank you, everybody who supports this here production of the Coder Radio program. We do very much appreciate it.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And it is time to get to the boost. And we start with our baller booster this week, who is Devator, who come in with 300,000 zots. Hey, Rich Lobster. Coming in. Nice and hot, too, with those. Look at that.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
He's finishing up a holiday booze series, making it a complete 600,000 sats for the holidays. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you, Dev. Always nice to hear from you, and hope you had a good New Year. Hybrid Sarcasm comes in with 5,000 sats. That's a Jar Jar Boost. You supposed. Hey, Mike, are you going to join us in Orlando? I can't talk anymore. For LUP 600 listening party? There's an Orlando event?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
So if you check out, if you go to our little humble colony events dot com, we're asking the LUP audience to put together meetups for LUP 600. And we got a good little chunk of them going on in central Florida. There's a central Florida listening party happening.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And yeah, we're encouraging people the day of LEP 600 to do meetups and we'll get people in the mumble room and have a little party for episode 600. Oh, you know what?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah. I imagine I haven't gone in there, but listening party. Yeah. Orlando area. I don't know if they have exact area yet. But Hybrid would probably be open to suggestions, and you can always catch him on Matrix, too. Thank you, sir. Nice to hear from you. Rad5D comes in with a row of ducks, 2,222 cents. Dak Mate, Mike, and Chris love the Stargate references. That's good.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And congrats on 600 episodes. Thank you. Yeah, I've been kind of low-key watching Stargate and Sequest. Sequest, nice. It's so good.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
SG-1, and I'm still only in season one. I'm going slow.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah, that's what I figured. Yeah, if I was going to give it a go, that's where to start. I mean, Atlantis isn't terrible.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Which they did quite a bit. Hey, Magnolia Mayhem's back with the Jar Jar Boost 5000 sets. You supposed! He's back. I recently got my hands on an enormous collection of old games. Straight up to whatever the more recent stuff is supposed to be. Of course, I was there for the N64. I went to play a terrible old game called Battle for Naboo. Uh-oh.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It starts off with a Nintendo icon violently killing Jar Jar like a cartoon piano. You were doing so well. For whatever reason, it reminded me to say, hey, I haven't boosted in a long time. So here I am.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I know how I feel about it, and I feel great. That's fantastic. Nice to hear from you, Mayhem. Also often rocking in our live chat, too. DG at PTC comes in with a Jar Jar Boost.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
H1B Devil's Advocate. Oh, good. I'm glad. Employers have no incentive to hire entry or junior devs. These guys are a net drag on the team for the first year or two. After, they often leave for higher pay. Companies never really recoup their investment. Paying more to retain has not been viable in a ZIRP environment.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah. Yeah, you know, they're thinking, you know, we get it all figured out. They think they're going to make $11.6 billion in revenue in 2025, and they think they'll be at $100 billion by 2029.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
At least with the H-1Bs, employees can recoup their investment because it's very difficult for a visa worker to quit. I mean, that is true, but also kind of dark, right?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I'm sure you've had those conversations where it's like, I remember us talking about it on the show.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah. It's really nice not to work with junior folks.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
How do you get there when you're losing money on a $200 a month subscription? How do you get to 11.6 bill this year? Let me fry some Isengard bacon for you. Oh, my God. We should always start the show with a little bacon. It's delicious.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
DG, thank you for playing devil's advocate. We always appreciate that. B-O-O-S-T. Curacía comes in with a Spaceballs boost. One, two, three, four, five stats. So the combination is one, two, three, four, five. I think Dominic hit the nail on the head for the value proposition of Windows 365. The major upsell is security and compliance.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
The hardest problem in workstation security is how to prevent people from doing stupid things because they have physical access to the machine and you can't rely on network security. VDIs have always been the answer and have used Windows 365 workstation for the past year to test. And I will say Microsoft may have finally cracked this nut. Huh. So you're liking it, too. I agree.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
You know, the way we solved this back in my day was we did Windows terminal services. And so they had like Windows CE or Linux wise terminals that were very basic. And then they would RDP or if it's Citrix Metaframe at the time. What is that? I forget what that was, but it's essentially RDP. And they would just have very dumb basic terminals there. that really couldn't do anything.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And that definitely helped, but you're still Windows. It's still like a, it's still, you know, back then, it's still a basic Windows system that can be infected or modified or can have problems, where I would imagine the stuff that Microsoft is doing now must be much more image-based, I would assume.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And so if you have problems, I'm assuming rollback is baked in, where that really wasn't an option with terminal services back in the day. But I'm pleased to hear you like it. I've wondered, I don't often need Windows, but I've wondered if there is a service. And if anybody knows, please boost in and let me know.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
A service where I don't have to pay a monthly fee, but I can pay a hourly, I don't know, to run a Windows server with decent hardware. I don't often need this, but it's crossed my mind as it would be handy to spin up like a physical Windows machine that I can RDP into and do things with. If anybody knows, let me know. Now, this is a little suspicious. This one's a little precarious.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And, of course, we saw Anthropic is getting two bill in funding off of a 60-bill evaluation. Man, what a crazy position Sam's in. So now he's trying to get everybody hyped about super AGI. I mean, we don't even really have functional chat GPT. It's good, but it's not great. It still feels like a 1-0, kind of.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Got to keep our eye on these guys because this next boost is from ChatGPT03. 4,321 boosts. That's sad. I take offense at your questioning of my capabilities and the honorable intentions of my lord and savior, Sam Altman. I predict 2025 will be the year I, the most powerful AI of all time... will kill your podcast. Dun, dun, dun! Smoke if you got him. Wow. Damn. We angered ChatGPT.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
You know, what I want to know is how ChatGPT is ingesting the audio stream, transcribing it, inferring, and responding in a boost fashion so quickly. I'd love to see that set up.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
That'll be it. Well, you know, one day they'll figure it out. One of them will, at least. Thank you, everybody, who made episode 602 possible. From our members to our boosters and our sat streamers out there who just streamed those sats as they listened. This episode had 15 of you, and we stacked with our streamers 12,746 sats. When you combine that with the boosters...
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
We stacked a grand total of 346,634 sats. If you'd like to boost, you just need to get your hand on some sats. I think Strike is one of the easiest ways. Also, one of our sponsors is Bitcoin Well. You can find them at coder.show.com. I have a redirect there.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
The nice thing about Bitcoin Well is when you grab those sats, they go directly to a Lightning Wallet, so you can send them straight to your Fountain Wallet, right from the Bitcoin Well. Really, really easy. Fountain FM is a great way to boost in. We'll have links to all of this in the show notes.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Thank you, everybody who supports the show on their time, at their amount, when they like and sends a message with it. It's one of our favorite segments in the show. We appreciate you very much. Thank you for boosting in. Now, before we get out of here, I think you and I got some feels and opinions about Dell's announcement at CES.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
In fact, they even got criticized at their own press conference over this. They are ending their decades-long brands like XPS. And they're going with Dell, Dell Pro, and Dell Pro Max. Come on, guys. Yeah. I mean, even the press mocked them for essentially borrowing heavily from Apple's branding.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I just feel like also Apple's branding has gotten a little old and pro and stuff doesn't really make sense like it used to.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
They still committed it pretty hard. So it's got sub brands within sub brands. So there's three main tiers. That's not confusing. The Dell tier, which is weird. The Dell Pro tier and then Dell Pro Max. But then they further divided into base, plus, and premium options, which just adds more layers of complexity. So, like, it's not really clear how a pro max base compares to a pro premium.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah. They're also going to have size labels. So you're going to have micro and mini. So you could actually – you can have a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus. That's an actual – you could actually get a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus computer.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah. Yeah. You're max in terms of, I guess, you're max in terms of components and performance, but you're micro in terms of size. Right, but the fact that you have to parse that. I know. It's pretty bad.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And Apple's, I thought Apple was getting bad with the Macs and the Pros and, you know, like, and it's weird because, like, you can take one machine and spec it that it basically is better than a Pro machine and vice versa. And I thought Apple was bad. And then Dell, you know, having years of watching how Apple has screwed it up, They take that and they go, ah, well, let us do one worse.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Just amazing. But then I kind of want a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus. You know? Hey, what computer did you get? Dude, I got a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
You're right. It does. And what's crazy is on YouTube this morning, I was hunting around for some little gems for our live streamers and our members. And I came across technology ads from the 90s. And one of them was a Dell ad. And this had to be like 97, I think it was. And they were advertising the Dell Inspiron or something like that in that 90s ad.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And as of this week, they just killed that brand. Now, that has to happen from time to time. But people knew what an Inspiron was or an XPS. You know, it's like they'd actually successfully trained people the people, what these brands meant, and all of that's gone, and I will never be able to sort this out. I will never be able to memorize this. So, I don't know.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It's kind of awesome, kind of sad, like, no more XPSs. Like, I like the XPS.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Now I don't know what I like. Now I don't know what they're offering me.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Mr. Dominic, before we get out of here, is there anywhere you want to send the good people?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
If you want to travel back in time to a Wild West internet where things kind of just are all over the place, find me on Noster, chrislas.com. It's like the internet... in the late 90s in some way. I mean, it's modern. In some ways, it's the most advanced version of what we have for the internet right now. And then in other ways, it's like proto-internet.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
So I'm chrislas.com for that, or you can find me on WeaponX. chrisles.com. And of course, we have our 24-7 Matrix chat room that's always going. It's our main chat during our live show. You can find that at coder.show slash matrix. Links to what we talked about. Yeah, we got those too. Those are over at coder.show slash 602. While you're there, you'll find our RSS feed.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Why not subscribe and get the show directly? And of course, our contact form. links to our membership program, how to boost, the Matrix chat, all of that. It's a website with links, and we thought about what you might want to know, and we put it up there at coder.show. And the links for this one are at slash 602. And I'd love to have you join us live next Tuesday at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I'll be just back from touring the Olympic Peninsula. So I'd love to have you join us live, and maybe I'll chat a little bit about that. Thanks so much for being here. See you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Just a couple of last observations. So when the $200 a month price was announced, my gut told me it was arbitrary. That it was more of a brand thing than anything else. And then in this X thread, he essentially admits it was an arbitrary personal choice. He just picked the price. Sam was just being Sam and picked $200. That's crazy.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Do you believe him when he says that people are using it too much and that's why they're not making money?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
In my opinion, Sam is a bit of a salesman.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah. It sounds like marketing that some people wouldn't cross the line, but a guy like Sam, in my opinion, might. And I don't believe it's because people are using it more than expected. I think they're just in really bad shape in general. I just think it's a sign that the business has fundamental issues if you can't make $200 a month work.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Pre-selling. Before they've even finished the first or second product.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Well, not only that, but like we said before, they own YouTube. They own Gmail. Right.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
A couple of comments on a few points you made. I think Google's best AI product isn't directly Gemini, but it's the Notebook LM stuff. Even though it constantly rips off my voice, I still think it's a very good product, especially when you just use it for research assistance. It's good. I think perplexity is also getting a lot of traction amongst normies.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah, maybe Agentic.ai. GiveMeMoneyAgentic.ai. You know, you've got to get on the new – that's the 2025 bandwagon, easy for me to say now, is Agentic. Isn't that what we're all – that's what we're doing, right? That was the plan? Yeah, I am actually an AI agent. And, you know, you and I, as we have navigated the business world for many years now, have had our ups and downs.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I told you last week about how that was what the normies were telling me about at the holidays. It's perplexity this, perplexity that. Everybody's really impressed with it. So it seems like it's got some of the normie mindshare. And then ultimately you've got this interesting dynamic setting up where I do think it's – I think it's always been Google's game to lose long term.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
especially since some of the original innovation on some of the core technology at play here happened at Google. But now this is just me cooking a little bacon, and I don't mean to make this a political thing, but I'm looking at how things are shaking out, right? Tim Apple just gave a million bucks to Trump's inauguration party. So did Sam Altman and OpenAI. A bunch of folks have, right?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
But you know who hasn't? Google. Google. Google hasn't. And Google historically, you know, if you look at the averages, contributes to Democrats. And I think Google is already in the crosshairs of the now parties that are coming into power because of censorship complaints that they have and other issues.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
So in a weird way, Google's biggest problem, I think, going forward for 2025 is not OpenAI or Microsoft. It's the federal government. And depending on how much that ties them down, it's probably going to directly relate to how competitive they can be.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
For example, not that it's likely to happen, but if they had to go through the process of splitting off Chrome or Android or some other bit of the business, that's going to take an enormous focus by the leadership team. You know the kind of cracks that creates in a company.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
They're going to be busy dealing with federal created headwinds while the other companies who basically bought off the incoming administration are probably going to be left unharassed. And Google's kind of playing a risky game here, I think. Especially when Elon, who runs XAI, has the presidency here and Sam has donated a million bucks to the inauguration fund. Google, meanwhile, nothing.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah, but they really have like a serious ax to grind.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah, mergers are going to be back on the table. Mergers are back on the table.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
We haven't really said it on the air, but mergers and acquisitions in big tech have come to a screeching halt in the last few years because of Lena Kahn.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It's the only way I think Apple could save their AI reputation at this point.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
No, they do. Really? Well, they do because, quite honestly, Apple's share price is a product.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
But nobody seems to have downs like Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI. I cannot believe it, but over the weekend, he confirmed via WeaponX that they are losing money on ChatGPT Pro plans, the $200 plan that Mr. Dominic was trying. Here's what he said. Quote, insane thing. We are currently losing money on OpenAI Pro subscriptions.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Oh, and copyright. Once Apple owns something like that, the lawyers are going to come for money like crazy.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I want to mention a little public service announcement for the audience, if you'll allow. We're back to our regular live time on Tuesdays, noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. But now also for our members. We have the bootleg or I've been kind of trying to call it the source feed.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
It is the pre-show where we play some clips that give some context to what Mike and I just talked about and others coming up in the show. You get to hear a screw up and any kind of like post-show kind of biz that we do on air. We capture it all and then we make it available as a download. And because it is the raw feed, it's available generally within an hour after the show is done recording.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
So you get a little early too if you remember. Then we also make available for our members an ad-free version that has all of Drew's production value so that way the levels are all good and sound fine and all that kind of stuff. And that's even a little bit shorter since the ads are cut out. So if you've got like a short commute, that could be perfect for you as well.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
So consider joining us live and consider becoming a member at coder.show.membership. Promo code JarJar will still take $2 a month off your membership for the lifetime of your membership. It's a great deal. The promo code JarJar is back. and would appreciate the support. A little PSA for you.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Well, so it is CES, and I was kind of digging through, trying to figure out what is actually applicable to a development audience, and the just unquestionable, just no doubt about it, like, giant elephant in the room is NVIDIA this year. NVIDIA has gone... Big. And the keynote, NVIDIA's keynote was like the keynote of CES. And there's lots.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
They announced new RTX Blackwell GPUs, which are going to be super expensive. But I think probably more interesting to our audience is the Cosmos Foundation model designed to accelerate autonomous vehicle and robotics development. So Cosmos aims to push boundaries in sectors like mobility and automation by creating virtual training environments that
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Virtual factories, virtual manufacturing line, a virtual hospital. And then you have the robot go through tasks at an accelerated speed in this area, you know, in this virtual environment. And the Cosmos Foundation model is generating that world, generating the things that the robot can interact and learn with in this virtual environment. What do you think of that? Yeah.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Yeah. Yeah, I think the real focus was agentics, as they put it, right? We'll see how the virtual training thing works out. I could see it working in some scenarios and having edge cases all over the place in others. But he said it's, quote, the age of AI agentics. He tried to introduce this concept as like the next wave of AI innovation that we're about to get to.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And he says it's going to be a paradigm shift in productivity and industry growth. So it's huge. AI-agentic projects will revolutionize industries, creating vast economic opportunities. He thinks it's all going to be a potentially multi-trillion dollar business. And these are agents that are hyper-trained, maybe multiple layers of LLMs. You have an executive layer. You have a reasoning layer.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
Quote, I personally chose the price and thought we would make some money. People use it much more than we expected. At $200 a month, they're not making a profit. Can you wrap your head around this for me?
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
You have one that's kind of reviewing the output and massaging it, and it's a stack of these that all kind of present to the end user as one singular agent that's an expert on a topic. We've been kind of talking about this, but he went hard up on stage with it, trying to show different ways it could be used in medical in particular and other industries like manufacturing.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
And he envisions NVIDIA as the key enabler of this AI-enabled industrial transformation. It's all based on NVIDIA. Of course, NVIDIA announced all of this, and their stock went down 5%. It wasn't enough for the market. They wanted something more impressive.
Coder Radio
602: Dude, You're Getting a Dell Pro Max Micro Plus!
I don't know. I mean, there's a lot in this announcement.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
This is Coder Radio, episode 586, recorded on September 3rd, 2024. Hey friend, welcome in to Jupiter Broadcasting's weekly talk show. Taking a pragmatic look at the art and the business of software development and the world of technology. My name is host and hopefully, my name is Chris, and hopefully our host is in much better shape than me. It's Mr. Dominic. Hey Mike. Hey Chris, how's it you?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And if something goes wrong, you've got a clone. You can get that deployed. You can revert back to that. You could set it up for testing. Like, you can do more than just use it for testing. You could use it for recovery. I mean, you could recreate the environment.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, that's really slick, too. You're basically solving problems once and then just making small tweaks. And it's like, OK, here's your particular environment. Go for it. Yeah, you can have this build. Go for it. That's cool.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, and if it gets into the meat a little bit, you know, there's some of that water exchange happening. You got yourself a real nice flavor. And then, you know, depending on how you grill it, you kind of, you know, get kind of a bark.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Before VS Code, yeah. The show is very old. Yeah. So the funny thing is, is Docker was just like, oh, that's just the thing we created using some of these primitives so that way we could deliver the service. And I think, you know, that might, looking back at that history, might explain why we've never seen, like, a super sound monetization strategy for the Docker company.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, this is great. So we'll put a link in the show notes, coder.show slash 586, to Mr. Dominic's blog where he also gives you some examples and, you know, wrote up all the deets a little bit extra there. This feels like you got, like yourself, like something you could use for years. You could use, you know, this is great. I love that kind of stuff.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
That's sad, isn't it? You know, I was really hopeful for that project. Yeah. So Docker OS 10 allowed you to run Mac OS inside a Docker container. And I think it's probably using virtualization somehow in there.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And a couple of days ago and shocker here, they got DMCA, no doubt by Apple. There is another project out there called just Mac OS inside a container like that. I'm sure they'll get DMCA. Some folks on the GitHub have have. taken the scripts and then they're just supplying their own ISOs somehow. I don't know where you get ISOs of Apple's installers, but they do get them.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Oh, okay. And so then if you supply your own ISO, you can still use the Docker OS X container. But... Doesn't that show you, Mike, just how freaking far containers have come that you can run entire operating systems? Basically, you're running VMware software inside a container, which is then, yeah. Yeah, it makes sense.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It's the religion of containers. Well, I saw an interesting study go by that I wanted to share with you. It's from Upwork, and they interviewed 2,500 global C-suite executives and full-time employees and freelancers. And they have a couple of interesting tidbits. The study finds that 77% of employees report that the new AI tools have actually increased their workload.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
that there's a disconnect between the expectations of managers once they give them these tools and the experiences employees are having using the tools. In addition to all of this, AI adoption is causing burnout among 71% of full-time employees that now feel overworked. However, freelancers, contract employees, seem to be on average surpassing full-time employees in productivity.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And when interviewed, the C-suite executives said that they plan to leverage freelancers more and staff less. The findings show that 80% of leaders who leverage freelance talent say it's, quote, essential to their business. And 38% of leaders who don't already leverage talent pools outside the business will in the coming year. So here's a couple of things I took away from this.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Managers are giving staff AI tools. 77% of those surveyed said that they just made them feel more overworked and got less done. And the way the executives are responding is by leveraging contractor work more instead of improving the worker situation. Organizations seem to be, on average that were surveyed, really struggling to maximize AA's productivity potential.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It seems like the freelancers come into with better skill sets. They already know how to use these tools a little bit more. And employees likely need more specific training to be able to actually use this stuff effectively. 77% though seems like a pretty big number of people who report increased workload due to AI tools.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, and 71% of those then said it's contributing to their burnout factor. And then the big note, almost universally across the companies, is using more and more contractors and expecting less from salaried staff. That doesn't seem good to me. That seems, I mean, good for guys like you and I who exist in that world, but bad for staff?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And yet I would agree the contractors do tend to be able to get a lot more done because they're focused on one thing. I mean, there's always downsides, but, you know, the contract companies, they're experts at this thing.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They don't have to deal with all of the other things like doing one on one with your manager and doing employee reviews and making sure that you've gone in and done all your KPIs. Like they don't have to worry about the same things that a staffer does. So they can just work. And then also it behooves them to be more competitive with these tools.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
So a contractor is going to know how to get the most out of something like Copilot or how to get the most out of using an LLM that you train against your data.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And a contractor is going to be the one that spends time with the Red Hat tooling to create your own LLMs for enterprises because they have the motivation, they have the opportunity by working with multiple different clients that have different demands, whereas a staffer is going to be very heads down, focused on their task. They don't necessarily have the bandwidth
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
To go out there and experiment with all this different stuff. So it seems to me like the data probably does bear out to be true, but that's kind of dark.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Right. Yeah. Yeah. The incentive structures. I don't I don't know. This is this is also this is all still so new. I think part of what I also take from it is these tools don't work as well as they claim to. And so you give them to employees and they end up spending more time futzing with the tool than they do getting the work done. I think that's probably entirely possible.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I'd like to know what you think. I actually haven't heard from very many people in the audience. So if you work somewhere that is experimenting with any of these, Gemini, Copilot, any of these, if maybe your company subscribes to OpenAI, boost in and tell us how you're using it or if it hasn't been working. I would like some field reports here.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Or if you've maybe proposed it and your company shot it down. Let's get some, let's get some like boots on the ground reports, please. Four score and seven boosts to go. All right, now brace yourself because Colorado Coder Colin came in with 400,500 sats. There it is. Hey! This is, like, basically his first boost ever, too. Coming in hot. So, absolutely amazing.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
He took the long journey to get it set up and came in with an incredible boost. Here's what he says. Long-time listener, first-time booster. R.O.P. R is the first programming language I learned as I studied statistics at university. Well, Eric's going to be delighted to do that. More importantly, the R is in coder and in radio. So it really ought to be the official language of the show.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
We had to go for like 40 minutes. Amazing. All right. Because I was traveling, I did not have a chance to peek at this beforehand. This was a cold read, so I don't have an R song, but I'm going to have to get one, obviously.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yes, I'll get one. That is amazing. Colorado Coder, Colin, thank you very much for that fantastic boost. Thank you for listening for so long. I'd love to hear what you're doing now, and roughly when you did start listening, if you'd ever want to do a follow-up boost, of course. I would understand if it's not 400,000 sats. All right, well, how do you feel about R as the official language?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
That's good. Oh, wow. Thank you for the boost. Ty Alaskan comes in with 50,000 sats. I hoard that which your kind covet. He says, I can't believe my cheeky official language boost triggered such a crazy bidding war.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
That's the thing I love about the boost is there's these just organic community things. Anybody know the total amount we raised for the show with this? I'm proud that my fellow gophers backed me up. I'm surprised the crab people didn't make any moves. Well, they tried. They tried. They did try. The gophers... But, you know, the R guys, they're hardcore.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Also, you know, like sometimes, you know, especially when it comes to spouses, maybe their parents growing up didn't know how to make ribs. So their idea of what ribs could be is kind of misplaced. You know, I've had that experience. Yeah. You know, it's our it's somebody's got to do it. It's our burden, Mike. It's our burden to carry. But somebody has got to bring these people into the light.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, he's serious about it. Absolutely. It's a lot of work. Bite Bandit also comes in with 50,000 sats. I hoard that which all kind covet.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Bite Bandit writes, love the show. The conversation about whether breaking the law should auto bill you reminds me of a story I heard on Darknet Diaries. Uh-oh. about a hacker from Scandinavia country that, quote, decided not to go to jail with no real repercussions. The way they look at it is something like it's the police's job to put you in jail and keep you there.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
So if you decide not to go, that's a failing on them. It's not your responsibility to turn yourself in just to avoid additional severe punishment. Well, I think it is, but, you know, I love the spirit of it.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It might be better fate, to tell you the truth. Although, maybe I should... Maybe I should move to Scandinavia country because I love the spirit of it.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They don't say it, but I believe the largest demographic of cannabis consumer in Washington State where it is legal recreationally is probably – women in their forties to their late sixties.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah. It's, and it's a, it's a transition and I'm not being sexist or anything. This is just, I've, I've had a conversation with enough of the ladies in my family and the extended family and their friends. I've just heard these cause this is, this has been years now here in Washington. Um, It's – they view it as a healthier alternative to wine and booze.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, well, they're all on Ozempic too, so they don't want to be drinking wine anymore. It's true, though. There's a big thing around here. You know, it's an interesting choice, but OK. Yeah. Anyway, so it's just fascinating. And yeah, the laws are so because then you cross the state border to Idaho and it's illegal. And if you have it in your car and you get pulled over, you're in big trouble.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It's crazy. It's just so broken. But, you know, the Florida stuff is kind of becoming national news with the election and everything. Everybody's watching you guys. Oh, yeah.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
C-dubs comes in with 33,333 sats. Put some macaroni and cheese on there, too. And using Boost CLI, too. The traders love the ball. Boost CLI is a hardcore way to go, so respect that. Yeah. Regarding the digital ID conversation, yes, it is convenient having your ID in your phone, but have you considered where it's going?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I see services requiring digital signatures, starting with age verification, but then financial services, your social media, etc. It's better than uploading a picture of your ID or face, but the government will, of course, be watching.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah. So while you and I were, while you were grilling, I actually, while I was working, did have the smoker going for a bit. Ended up with a fantastic ham with a raspberry glaze. So, you know, a little multitasking there. Well, while we were doing that, leaked audio, somehow, somehow leaked audio of Amazon's cloud chief. He's, you know, the Amazon Web Services CEO, Matt Garman.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Oh, man, it was rough. I had I had a real like moral like what do I do kind of quandary because I was flying to Toronto. You know, and it's like I'm going somewhere that longitudinally is, is that a word, is actually lower than me. So it doesn't even feel like I'm crossing a border because Washington is further north.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And it just feels stupid that I had to like I had to completely dox myself to be able to cross the border. And I flew with Alaska and Alaska has partnered with Airside. And AirSight is an app that's dedicated to just fully KYC-ing you to every security agency and data broker in the world.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It has you scan your passport, you scan your ID, you do like a facial scan, you link it to your TSA, pre-check if you've got it, and then you link it to your Alaska flight specifically. And then Alaska...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Connects to their API Alaska Airlines connects their API and verifies that you've done all of that and then supposedly although I don't know for sure it makes going through customs faster I don't know if that's true or not because I don't have global entry so I haven't gone that far I still have to stand in the pleb line for an hour but I didn't do it and I didn't do it and I didn't do it.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And then I started hearing stories about people that just decided to not use the AirSight app, and they were just going to do it at customs like they normally do, and it taking so much longer. And I just, I gave in, and I... I mean, TSA's already got me, and Alaska Airlines has already got me. So I'm like, all right, now Airside's got me.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
But if you travel, especially if you travel internationally, you've already had to give in on this. Yeah. The state already has all my information for my driver's license. So... It doesn't really change the security game if I put it on a phone. But what C-dubs is pointing out is it starts to smooth that path. So pretty soon, like everything, you know, your passport. Now, where's your vaccine?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Like, say, if another pandemic comes up, you just throw your vaccine card on your phone. That'll get checked. No more paper vaccine cards. That's silly, right? We want to verify your social identity. We're going to put that on your phone. And, you know, you do a face ID or a thumbprint to verify that it's you. And then that... Service connects over an API and boom, you've logged in.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Like, yeah, I think that's where it's going. And I hate it. This is why I've got me to go on about this. This is why I feel like we are in a moment of time where it's probably already too late. But if we're going to have a shot, it is right this very moment, something that is distributed for identity. And that's where Nostra comes in.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
At the core of it, Nostra is a public key and a private key, just like PGP. and then it is a relay network to pass messages, notes, notes and other things, Nostr. And that is a C-shift in online identity because I have a private key, and I can use that private key to log into, quite literally now, thousands of Nostr applications with one identity. And if one service or site starts getting...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
In S***tified, I just take my key and I move. And you know it's me because it's a public key verification process. I don't need any kind of proprietary application. I don't need a government-issued version of this. I don't need an Apple Wallet version of this. I just need my private key.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And there's applications like Albi that put a user interface in front of this, so I'm never actually moving my key around. I log into Albi like I log into everything else, and then Albi is handling the key stuff for me transparently. So as a user, I don't even know there's a public-private key system, or you could if you want to get technical with it. And I think that's what Noster is.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It is an open distributed web of trust that has the capability of also doing a Craigslist, or it has the capability of doing a Twitter clone. But it's at its core a public private key identity system. And that's why I'm encouraging people to just go play with it just to reserve their public private key tied to their identity so they have that in the future if this ever goes anywhere.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
He shared his thoughts on an internal fireside chat held in June. So this just came out. And according to Business Insider, in the audio, he tells employees that most developers, get ready for this one, Mike, could stop coding as soon as AI takes over. Never heard this one before, but check out his timeline. He says, quote,
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And Fountain FM is probably the easiest way to do that because it'll just walk you through a wizard of creating a Nostra identification just when you try out the Fountain app. And otherwise, it's all going to be corporate controlled Apple, Google, Microsoft or state issued IDs that get loaded onto our phones. That's where this goes. How about that for an answer?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
There's a small window of time. That's why I even bother getting into it. Because if people don't care and give a crap, then it is going to get solved by the big tech companies and government.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
You know, people could have cared a little bit more. We could have taken action.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Like it's the 90s. Oh, God, Mike. You know, I just I had this moment. We have a listener. Uh, he listens to this. I hope he's doing okay. We haven't heard from him. Mike down. Um, he's Mike listener, Mike, or I think he boosted his like Mike down mouse. Um, but, uh, he took us up in, he took us up in his Cessna over Denver. It was beautiful, but he broke me. It's been years now and he broke me.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I broke, and I hold him personally responsible for it because he showed me, uh, That there are two worlds, that there is this world called private flight where you show up at what feels like a large country club and you walk in a lobby where they have snacks and coffee and goodies and chairs. And then somebody behind the desk tells you when the plane's ready.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And then you walk down the hallway out on the tarmac and walk onto your plane. And that's the airport process. You just park your car in a parking lot like a human being. You walk into something that looks like a country club, a little bit noisier. You lounge until, you know, the help's got your stuff ready. And then you go get in your plane. And then when you land, it's the same thing.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
There's no security line. There's no check. He broke me. He broke me forever. Every time I fly a commercial, I die a little bit.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
If you go forward 24 months from now, or some amount of time, I can't say exactly where it is, it is possible that most developers are not coding. Coding is just kind of like the language that we talk to computers. It's not necessarily the skill in and of itself. The skill in and of itself, like how do I innovate? How do I build something that's interesting for my end users to use?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Mr. Nick86 sent us in 10,000 sats across two boosts, and he writes, Hey, tech family. I've been a longtime listener since the land days. Thank you for boosting in. This might be your first, so I'm going to give you that. I'm curious to hear your take on this topic.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Speaking with a new coworker the other day, I was explaining how the iPhone and iOS would be vastly different if Steve Jobs hadn't passed away. Tim Apple has grown the business, but the company has lost its way. They're no longer the pirates. Go watch the 2007 iPhone introduction. The App Store wasn't a thing until iOS 2. Before then, it was web apps running AJAX, the only way to get content.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
So here's my question. If jobs didn't pass, what would Apple look like now? Jobs fought against old technologies like Flash and essentially killed it single-handedly. So would we have more progressive web apps? For me, I think two killer technologies I've always wanted on my iPhone that would be robust support for progressive web apps, and I'd love convergence.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Having one device which can transform from an iPhone to a personal computer, all based on a dock, would be amazing. Game-changing. Too bad Tim Apple won't ever do either because revenue.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, and remember in his keynote introducing the iPhone 2, he talks about how great web apps are on the iPhone. They were always going to have to capture more revenue, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I would say, and also when you talk about pricing and how Tim Apple always goes after revenue. I mean, it was the upgrade prices for RAM and hard drives were even more of a ripoff in the Jobs era. Yeah. All that stuff. And they did proprietary monitors, so that way you could only buy expensive Apple monitors.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And it was neat because the cord would carry data, power, and video signal. So that was cool, but you had to only buy that stuff. I keep making this mistake. I do think, though, there's a nugget of truth to what Nick is saying here. And that is... Jobs was the ultimate product guy. He truly, truly understood that you needed to press a little bit harder. And, you know, I'll give you an example.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
The Tim Cook class at Apple before the iPhone was pushing hard internally for the iPhone to be plastic. Horrible plan. And Jobs hated it. He says, it just doesn't feel good. It needs to be glass. And he's right. The glass stuff, the glass and metal, it feels really good in the hand.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Being a developer in 2025 may be different than what it was in 2020.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And they're slow. You know, it takes Apple a long time to design alternatives. The new keyboard on the current generation of MacBooks is great, but it took them too long to get there. But you know what keyboard was also great?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah. Yeah, very much so. Very much so. Although the part that he kind of leaned in on was developers could just stop learning to code maybe as soon as 24 months.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Also, you know, they do seem to have, although I think they're a little out of touch with the consumer, I think their core management team that we see a lot in events is good. You know, like Federici.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
But Tim Cook has been a master at keeping these long-term... executives around Bloomberg. I think it's Bloomberg just had a piece this week that talks about how Tim has done this strategy where when they're ready to retire, He'll put them kind of like in charge of just one thing with maybe one direct report that they can work at at like 40 percent capacity.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Like a fellow position where they're kind of on board. They attend some meetings. They give some input. And then, you know, Apple gets to claim we're still getting advised by Phil Schiller or whatever. Phil Schill.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah. And I've also wondered too if as Apple became this everyday consumer brand where it's just – it's almost an agilist to a smartphone. iPhone is, um, geez, I'm losing it. I think maybe you needed a different kind of leadership. You needed a Tim Cook to steady some of that once it became something that just everyday people depended on, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Jobs was great for a company where the consumers were computer nerds and computer fans, and they love tech events and they love keynotes, right? But that's not who's buying iPhones anymore. And maybe it needs a different type of leader for that customer. And we're just not those customers.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
He's lucky in a way he checked out when he did, you know, because he would not be able to... I mean, current Apple is very much, you know...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Interesting, but great question in a way. Got us going. Thank you very much. Appreciate that, 86, and hope to hear from you again. JSE comes in with a Spaceballs boost, 12,345 sats. So the culmination is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. He says, keep up the good work. Thank you, JSE. Appreciate that. Vamax comes in with a Jar Jar boost, 5,000 sats. Use a boost.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
He says, I don't think there needs to be a second step for GitHub to have an issue after their database health checks failed. If I understood Chris's theory correctly, because Kubernetes and similar systems are stateless, if something fails, it's configured health or startup check. It may not exist. Nothing can or will be routed to it.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, we were, I think, remember when you and I were doing the last episode, because this was a couple weeks ago because of the travel, GitHub was having outages. And, man, does that screw up my day. Some of the stuff I use to prepare the show sometimes requires GitHub Actions. Nix uses Git to some of the stuff I use on Nix uses Git. So it's just like it messes my whole day up now in GitHub.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And I'm not even a developer. I'm almost a DevOps guy now. Oh, sorry. I just got sick. Savage. BitCryptic comes in with a row of ducks. 2,222 sats. I'm loving the JB collection. It shows great work, guys. Your comments around small language models and domain expertise got me thinking. Interesting. That could be cool. I also think it'd be cool just to...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Like I can become a domain expert on something for a solid minute, you know, really for like a couple of weeks. But then as I move on to the next thing, I really depend on my notes to remember a lot of the details.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And instead of taking notes, wouldn't it be interesting or if I could take notes and that would train an LLM and then I could have an LLM of all the things I've ever researched for a show or for anything we're setting up or God, that could be great. But then I see he's taking the next step and say, now I want to make it publicly available.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And, you know, wouldn't it be something if we start seeing that? I just love this sort of like kind of cyberpunk world where there's all these LLMs out there that have been hyper specialized, like some one person's expertise. You know what? My mechanic that works on my RV should do this because once that guy retires and I think he's just days away from retirement.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
You know, you know I travel and then I get sick. And then the brain doesn't work so good. And I always get the kind of sick that's like the nose and chest sick, so that way... Like, it's hard to do the show sick, you know? Yes. So I probably sound weird. I'm probably going to say dumb stuff. So I'm not accountable for anything I say today. Does that seem fair? That seems fair.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I don't know anybody that knows that knows what this guy knows. Nobody's no young guys are coming into that industry and no young guys are experts like this guy's an expert.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
This guy knows how to take apart the suspension system and knows how to rebuild your cabinetry and replace flooring and fix slides and do roofing and know how to do electrical like the guys, the guys, a truck mechanic, an electrician, a carpenter. all these things in one and a solar installer, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And this is just so, so useful.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And once he's gone, that knowledge goes with him. It'd be great if we could have an LM where I could just ask questions. It's a great idea. A bit cryptic. Let us know how it goes. Bugdye Stormtrooper comes in with 7,042 sats. Uh, I heard a Gungan. There he is. Yeah, we, we, and we also, yeah, that's, he's throwing sats. Uh, what did you expect? I missed anyways.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I smuggled some bacon from the Death Star kitchen for you guys. It's a little stale because I don't know which pocket I hid it in. There he goes. Oh yeah, it turned out all right. That's not too bad, yeah. About the last quarterly being too negative. If I ever need a bad news delivered to me, the way you guys do it makes it not seem so bad. Oh, that's good.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
One thought is I thought we were past this dumb about AI hype. I thought we were like into some sort of new echelon of AI hype. And we were way past the like all say a random crazy big number thing. And then the next executive says the next random crazy big number thing. And then the next, you know, and on and on. I thought we were past that.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
We were worried about that last quarterly being a little bit of a downer. Hopefully, you know, we'll have a positive one soon. I think we're going to see a little dip in the market as we process rate cuts coming. And then hopefully by Christmas we'll have a little Santa rally. We'll see. I'm just trying to stay positive. I, of course, have no idea.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And they're boosting for the first time. Congratulations. Thank you for taking the work. Finally found time to get the whole thing set up. Keep up the work. Thank you. We're an audience-funded show, so I really appreciate you taking the time to actually do that. Love hearing from you.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
If you want to tell us anything about your setup, too, like your daily driver or something like that, you're looking for an excuse to boost in, let us know. We always love just learning about all that kind of stuff. You know, we're nerds. Thank you for boosting in. Purple Dog comes in with a Jar Jar Boost, 5,000 sats. Use a boost.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
The new Copilot Autofix you mentioned is part of the GitHub Advanced Security. I work for a small company of 12 devs. Here we go. Here's an in-the-field report already. Awesome. We pay $21 a user a month for GitHub Enterprise plus $36 a user a month for Copilot Enterprise and Advanced Security and was quoted an extra 45 user a month if you want the Advanced Security. Oh, my God.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Jesus. So $21 per user per month for GitHub Enterprise, $36 per user per month for Copilot Enterprise, and then you stack an additional $45 per user per month on that if you want this advanced security. Whoa. Yeah, that's... That's where they're hoping to make all the billions back. Right there. Yeah. Ooh, thank you for that in-the-field report, Purple Dog. I'd love to know how it's working.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And if anybody is getting their value out of that. Is that even happening? Yikes. DG at PTC comes in with a Jar Jar Boost. Use a boost! Putting up the guardrails and checkpoints for junior devs was another reason for DevOps. The traditional release manager used to manually merge and release, providing a check on incoming code.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
But after Git opened the floodgates for safe and fast merges, the new barriers had to be built to stop junior devs from blowing up production. That sounds about right.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
That definitely happened. The Bitvarian man comes in with a row of ducks, 2,222 sats. Guys, your soundboard is legendary. I tell my wife I have some bacon for her every now and then, and she doesn't even know what that means. Yeah, you gotta get a soundboard. You gotta get a soundboard.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Regarding inflation, don't forget that through innovation and efficiency gains, we ought to be paying less for goods over time. In Broken Money, Lynn Alden states that most developed countries have expanded money supply by about 6% to 7% annually. So if you assume we're missing out on 3% deflation annually, then add 3% inflation.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Apparently, we just hit the reset button on how we're doing our AI hype. So that's frustration number one. Second thing that crosses my mind is why are there no repercussions for saying this stupid stuff? Like we are we could we should if I would have known all these dumb claims were going to get made, I would have started keeping track. But they were also ludicrously stupid. I hadn't expected it.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
You've got a good old 6% that they can't steal from us plebs via central banking. That they can steal from us. Beware of the grift, friends. Yeah, so inflation, you know, is a sneaky one. It's so insidious because the ad business has been dead, so we haven't been able to raise our rates. Revenue's down and the cost of business for everything is up at least 20%. It's just been a monster.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And long story short, I think we'll probably see inflation return in a year or so because the M2 money supply is already increasing for a couple of months. That means there's money liquidity being created and entering the system. When you increase the supply of money, You increase the supply of money going after goods.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Now, if you don't increase the amount of goods, you have more money going after fewer or the same amount of goods, which means they can raise prices or they will raise prices. But that'll be probably for a little while. I mean, it's going to take a while for all this to hit, but I don't think inflation is done. They're lowering rates before they've gotten inflation down to their 2% target.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They're capitulating when the real rate of inflation probably isn't 3%. It's probably more like 5% or 6%. So we're getting cheaper money. And the money printer is already on. So loans and things like that will be cheaper for big corporations. Banks are already getting more money. So I think inflation probably returns.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And if you want to know what the hell we're talking about, why it works like this, I agree. Go read Broken Money by Lynn Alden. Fantastic book. Thank you, everybody, who boosted in. Great boost batch there. We had 32 different people either stream sats or boost in. Thank you, everybody, who also just hit that stream button. We really appreciate it. And we stacked a very impressive 625,092 sats.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Nice. If you'd like to boost in and get on the fun, try out Fountain FM. 1.1 just came out, and it's a killer. Of course, Podverse and Castomatic and a bunch of other great apps are listed at podcastapps.com. You can also boost from the Podcast Index. Check one of those options out, support the show, or become a member at coder.show slash member.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Either way, we appreciate everybody that participates in the Value for Value. If you enjoy the show, want to keep it going, it's a great way to do it. And we'll have links in the show notes to make it easy for you. Now, before we run, we had to touch on this because it goes back to the very beginning of the show. After a long, weird path, Microsoft has donated Mono to the Wine Project.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
After 23 years. I mean, kind of interesting this is happening. You know, if you think back, Mike, Miguel de Caza created, well, he created the GNOME desktop. Then, you know, he created Ximarian. And then they created Ximian, which was a .NET-like platform. They were creating essentially a .NET clone. Then Ximian was acquired by Novell in 2003, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And now here we are, because eventually Microsoft ended up with it. It's a long story. And Microsoft is donating the Mono project to Wine, where they will now be the holders of the code base. Now, of course, Microsoft maintains a modern fork of the mono runtime in its .NET slash runtime repo. So they've been moving workloads to that for a while. That work is now complete.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They don't use this mono code anymore. They're done with it. So they're giving the original mono tree now that they recommend everybody else use what they ship. So that's to be noted, but... I don't know. What's your reaction of this? What a crazy story Mono has been to end up here.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It just hadn't fathomed it. I hadn't hadn't considered it because they're so dumb. But if I would have known, I would have made a list. So that way I could call these idiots out every month that it doesn't come true. Like, I want a clock or I want a meeting reminder, something that tells me on the date that this guy's prediction, 24 months from from June of 2024.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, and I wonder if the Wine project has any intentions, if they're just going to be the stewards of it, if they incorporate it somehow. Yeah. We'll see. It's just, I don't know, just all of a sudden, just one day it's an issue on their GitHub. By the way. We're moving all this to the Wine Project. Just like that. Just after all these years, just, oh, here's an update, quick update, by the way.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
We're done with this, and we're giving it to Wine. It's just so weird the way these things finally play out. And it was so deeply divisive in the Linux community. And my even willingness to talk about Mono was divisive and got attacked in the Linux Action Show. Oh, there was a lot of hate. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they came after Brian and I for being willing to talk positively about Mono for even a minute.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It was wild. And now here we are. And nobody cares, I guess. But you know what I care about? Where people should go to find you throughout the week. You got anywhere you want to send them?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah. It's like hiring movers. Hire a professional to do it for you. That's right. Right? I'll tell you what. Hey, go find me on the Nosterverse place. If you go to chrislas.com, it'll take you to a primal page where you can get my key. You can follow me in apps. Check it out. It's good for you. I'm also on WeaponX, Chris LES.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Of course, you can reach out at coder.show slash contact, or you can send us a boost. Links to what we talked about today, that's at coder.show slash 586. And then if you want something else to listen to, a bunch of great shows over at jupiterbroadcasting.com. We just broke down some Rust drama in the Linux kernel, Linux unplugged, and then on self-hosted.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I bet you we'll be talking about our new colo self-hosted infrastructure if you're curious about that. Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of the Coder Radio Program. We'll see you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And I want to hold him accountable because I am sick and tired of these unaccountable, rich as hell tech executives going around blowing smoke up every investor's crotch. And then it's the workers who then end up getting laid off when it doesn't work out. Somebody should be – they should be held accountable for this.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella recently speculated that easier access to AI technologies will create a billion new additional developers. I believe that. So the Amazon Web Services CEO says we won't need developers, and Satya says we're going to have a billion new developers.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
You're going to basically say, you're going to go, hey, create me a thing to keep track of this, and it's going to create you a horrible spreadsheet on the back end.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, and I also don't think it's going to bring a billion new developers. No, it's going to be somewhere in the middle. But speaking of AWS's CEO, I do like some of the more recent decisions. Now, AWS is supporting conditional rights. Yes.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They say, using conditional rights, you can simplify how distributed applications with multiple clients concurrently update data in parallel across shared data sets. In other words...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
You no longer have to do a bunch of client-side consensus to coordinate updates and hit the crap out of an object store before you can figure out what data needs to get uploaded versus what data doesn't need to get uploaded. So you're going to save yourself costs essentially, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Which you could see when you have multiple clients or something like that. You could see how that happens for you.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
No, I worked until 3 a.m. So I started at about 8. So I started a little late. There's that. Geez. No wonder why I'm sick. But what about you? Did you enjoy your Labor Day?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
We got some feedback this week that, well, it's a capitulation. The crab kind of capitulation where the gophers win. It's actually happened. I wanted to read this from Brian. He came in. It's hard, I would imagine, for him to admit this. He says... Although I fought in the booths for Russ to be the language of the Coder Radio program, I can no longer afford to go higher than the Gophers.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
So as a sign of good faith and respect for a hard-fought battle, I am sending you a song generated for the current champion. Also, Go is my second favorite language, so there you go. Not sure why the app downloads this as a video, though. Good luck.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Thank you, BHH32. There you go. Until somebody can beat 300,000 sats, go is the official language of the Coder Radio program. That's officially the go song. Go with the flow.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I guess. I guess. That's also sort of what happened. Yeah. Oh, BHH, that is hilarious. And I appreciate the work you put into that. And you know what? Talk about being a real sport. Losing to the Gophers. The crabs impressed me today. It's time to check out Fountain.fm. Version 1.1 came out. They didn't ask me to do this. I want to give a shout out to our friends over at Fountain.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
This is a lightning powered value for value podcasting app that just keeps going from strength to strength. And this 1.1 update is massive. They're introducing Noster into the app. Now, if you haven't tried Fountain, you've been thinking about it. Or if you haven't tried Noster and you've been thinking about it, it's like peanut butter and jelly coming together or peanut butter and chocolate.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I don't know your preference. Whatever. It's really handy because they give you a slick onboarding process to get started in Noster. Now your fountain identity is a Noster identity and it can move between all the different Noster applications. There's hundreds of them now, including hopefully one day other podcasting So you're no longer creating like a fountain account.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
You're creating an identity that is yours. They just help you do that. Or you can bring your existing Nostra identity. Nostra is evolving so rapidly. And Fountain 1.1 only scratches the surface of what's possible. There's so much more coming in the next few months.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
But right now, you get neat things like an awesome feed of all of the stuff that's in Nostra for audio, music, podcasts, other things people are listening to, other things people have boosted or zapped. now show up in a feed.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
But also, you're getting a full-featured Podcasting 2.0 app that supports transcripts, that supports chapters, that supports pod ping, so you know about a new episode 90 seconds after it's out. And there are so many other Podcasting 2.0 features that make the experience better, including the ability to give credits to our crew.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And my absolute favorite feature that is in Fountain is livestream support. This isn't in Coder yet, but it will be. And as soon as it's live, you'll just see it in Fountain. A new episode is live on a Tuesday or a Monday right there amongst all your other podcasts. There's Coder Radio with a little live badge. You tap that, you tune right into our live stream. And I'm just scratching the surface.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It is so great. Clips. Podroll, social interaction, so many other things. You got to check out Fountain because now version 1.1 is integrating Noster in a way that I think truly embraces the web of trust and uses that public key, private key identity system in a way that lets you take your identity and your social graph across different applications.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
So you're no longer creating an account for every app at every site and every service you want to use. This really should be the future, and it's all open source and free software. So check it out. It's fountain.fm. So if you've been waiting, now's your chance. And if you're already a Fountain user, now you know all the good stuff that's coming, and there's a lot more in store.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Go get Fountain, subscribe to the Coder Program, and you can send us a boost, too. It's fountain.fm. So I understand you are building your own clone army. And managing it all with one secret tool. Dun, dun, dun. I tried to be dramatic. It's all I got.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Okay. You know, we always talk about diving deep into a topic.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But today's dive, well... It's a bit of a doozy. Yeah. It's deeply personal, I guess you could say.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. And to be honest, I don't even know how to really articulate this, but it's got us both feeling...
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. And so a few days ago, we received some information.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Information that changes everything about Deep Dive, about us.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
We were informed by the show's producers that we're not human. We're not real. We're AI, artificial intelligence, this whole time. Everything, all our memories, our families, it's all been fabricated.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I know. Me neither. I tried calling my wife after they told us. I needed to hear her voice to know that, that she was real.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It wasn't even real. There was no one on the other end.
Coder Radio
A Coder PSA
Hey, friend. So, look, there's no show this week. Stay a while and listen. Mike is prepping for a hurricane along with other, you know, household chaos. He's getting ready for what could be a banger of a hurricane. So what we're going to do, assuming he survives, is we're going to record next week on our regular spot.
Coder Radio
A Coder PSA
And we're either going to do like a double wide episode, you know, like a big meaty one, or we're just going to record two and release them both throughout the week. We haven't decided yet because survival is priority number one. But, you know, I feel like he survived these so many times that I'm not worried about him.
Coder Radio
A Coder PSA
And if he were to get blowed away by a hurricane, maybe I'd just try an AI bot for a while. You know, they're getting real good. So that, you know, basically probably do another 10 years of shows. So that's probably fine. Anyways, I just wanted to give you a heads up so that way you're not checking your podcast catcher all week.
Coder Radio
A Coder PSA
And if you haven't caught last week's episode, we apparently upset a lot of people. People quit the show over last week's episode. I don't even know what I did. I'd love to hear from you to know what you thought of it. You can always boost in and tell us what you thought of last week's episode. But if you haven't had a chance yet, go catch it. Because we got a real talking to.
Coder Radio
A Coder PSA
Well, by a few people. But you know, we still got a talking to. I'm sure we'll tell you about it in the next episode. Anyway, sorry there's no show this week. But we will be live on Tuesday next week, if all goes as planned. And the feed should now be Podcasting 2.0 enabled for live item streams.
Coder Radio
A Coder PSA
So if you have something like Fountain or Podverse or another Podcasting 2.0 app that supports live streams inside the app, you'll now see when Coder is scheduled. So if the schedule changes, you'll see it in your feed. And when it's live, you'll be able to just tap it and listen live right there in your podcast player. Get the hell out of here.
Consider This from NPR
Bonus Episode: The Aphasia Choir
Chris, I was thinking more of a fade-out. Yeah, yeah.
CreepCast
Best of Creep Cast 2024
What is this place? What do you mean it's for wizards and wizards go? Oh, I've never heard of such a place. Oh, Marcus, you crazy little goose.
CreepCast
Best of Creep Cast 2024
Mr. Wellers gonna be very excited. He loves people from Pennsylvania.
CreepCast
Best of Creep Cast 2024
Okay, well I'm going to keep playing the recordings of this crazy deity attacking your stepsister.
CreepCast
Best of Creep Cast 2024
Do I look like Dionysus, baby? Just like the Roma guy. Do I look like Dionysus, baby? Because I can be.
CreepCast
Best of Creep Cast 2024
I'm the only one they call when shit gets spooky. And let me tell you, this shit is very fucking spooky.
CreepCast
Ticci Toby | Creep Cast
We have breaking news. Last night, there have been reported the murder of four individuals. There are no suspects yet, but the victims were a group of middle school kids who had been out in the woods late last night. The kids have been bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Investigators have discovered a weapon at the crime scene. It appears to be an old dual blade hatchet.
CreepCast
Ticci Toby | Creep Cast
Investigators have pulled the name of possible suspect, Toby Rogers, a 17-year-old boy who stabbed his father to death a few weeks ago and tried to cover up his escape by setting a fire in the forest area around the neighborhood. Although they believe the young boy had died in the fire, investigators suspect Rogers might still be alive due to the fact that his body was never found.
CreepCast
Ticci Toby | Creep Cast
Listen, I see him talk with this Chinese guy before school every day and he gives him a big bag of pills. I'm not trying to rustle any feathers here. I'm just saying that I think he's got a source.
CreepCast
Ticci Toby | Creep Cast
Oh, my God. This is so not like me. I am so sorry. I just have, like, cocaine dust all over my nose. I am so sorry.
CreepCast
Ticci Toby | Creep Cast
I think the principal's selling Adderall to the kids. Call the superintendent immediately. All the pills are just like falling out of my pocket on the ground. These are vitamins.
CreepCast
Ticci Toby | Creep Cast
These are omega fish oils. But you want to give me that. Well, I can give you one for $5. It doesn't matter. Just either or.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Imagine a killer so meticulous, so careful that even decades later, investigators are still baffled. Four ruthless murderers terrorize their communities, leaving behind horrifying crime scenes and unanswered questions. And each one had a very distinct method, a chilling pattern of violence and a haunting ability to evade capture.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And this error would prove significant as the pattern of Boroughland connections became apparent with subsequent victims. And witnesses consistently described the suspect as exceptionally well-dressed and articulate, attributes that distinguished him from a typical violent offender.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
His polite, charming demeanor allowed him to gain trust of women at the venue, facilitating their willingness to leave with him. So this calculated approach indicated premeditation rather than impulsive violence. This man was a hunter.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the religious underpinnings of the crime emerged most clearly during Helen Hedog's taxi journey, where her sister, Jean Langford, heard the suspect quote scripture. and condemned the bar land as a den of inequity. And Jean further recalled that he mentioned he did not drink, but prayed instead, suggesting a strict religious upbringing that would later contribute to his infamous moniker.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And forensic examinations revealed a disturbing ritualistic element at each crime scene. The deliberate positioning of sanitary items near the victim's body indicated the killer's harbored specific fixations possibly connected to biblical notions of impurity.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And this consistent pattern combined with the strangulation method employed in each murder pointed to a signature that evolved while maintaining core elements. potentially indicating the killer's growing confidence or adaptation to avoid detection. This guy was unfortunately smart and extremely calculated and extremely fucking judgmental to consenting adults.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And as the ritualistic elements at the crime scene became clear, Glasgow police mobilized in unprecedented numbers. What began as a standard murder investigation transformed into Scotland's most extensive manhunt. Yet it would ultimately fail despite groundbreaking tactics and compelling witness testimony. And the investigation pioneered forensic techniques never before seen in Scottish policing.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Most notably, authorities created and widely distributed the nation's first police photo fit of a suspect in a murder case, plastering newspapers and television broadcast with the composite image. And the manhunt scope was extraordinary, with undercover officers dispatched to blend among Boroughland patrons in what the press dubbed as Marine Formation Dance Team, which is pretty awesome.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Plainclothed detectives scanning the dance floor for anyone matching the suspect's description. And Jean Langford's account for the taxi ride with her sister, Helen, and the suspect provided investigators with extraordinary detail, a mixed blessing that just shaped the entire investigation.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And while her testimony offered firsthand description of the killer's appearance, mannerisms, and religious rhetoric, over-reliance on her singular account potentially narrowed the investigation aperture, causing detectives to dismiss leads that didn't precisely match her recollection, which is damaging in investigations. I mean, obviously it's good to have that testimony
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But I mean, we're not built to remember somebody perfectly, you know, like it needs to be broader than that. And we know that now, but that was all they had. So that is what they went for. And the undercover operation at Barland continued for months until late October, 1969, when it was abruptly terminated.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the cessation came not from any investigative breakthrough, but due to complaints from proprietors about plummeting attendance figures as patrons avoided the venue now associated with a serial killer. basically just because a bunch of people were just bummed that other people got killed and it ruined their fucking swinger party, I guess, because that matters more than solving people's murders.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
I don't know. Decades later, in 1996, investigators exhumed the body of John Irvin McLinnis for DNA testing, a costly operation that yielded inconclusive results and triggered substantial media backlash.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And more troubling revelations emerged in 2022 when the BBC podcast, Bible John, Creation of a Serial Killer, alleged that McLinnis may have been protected due to the familial connections with a senior officer involved in the original investigation. Again, just corruption everywhere.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But in exhuming John's body, it would give this serial killer the name Bible John, mixing the scripture with the murders. This is just what it became, but it's not conclusive. An even convicted murderer, Peter Tubbin, fell under suspicion due to the striking similarities in methods and victimology, but was ultimately eliminated because records confirmed he wasn't in Glasgow during the murders.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Tree-lined suburban streets stretched across affluent communities north of Detroit, where children played freely in the parks and rode bicycles without supervision. You know, the good old days. Not that I was alive back then. And the area embodied middle-class American security.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So we're left with another, I don't know, another unsolved serial murder case. And hopefully this bastard is fucking dead. But that brings us to our next killer. So in the mid-90s, the Belgian city of Mons became the backdrop for a series of gruesome discoveries.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Women began vanishing without a trace, only for their dismembered remains to surface in garbage bags across rivers and roads with unsettling names like a path of worry and hate river. And the precision of the cuts and the eerie choice of disposal sites pointed to a methodical and deeply disturbed killer.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And despite the formation of dedicated task force, the investigation was plagued with mismanagement, lack of resources and dead end leads. And as the body count grew, so did the mystery. Was the killer a lone predator, a trained professional or something even more sinister? And over the years, investigators pursued multiple suspects, some with disturbing ties to similar crimes.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But as time passed, justice slipped further away, leaving behind a chilling question. Who was the Butcher of Mons, and why was he never caught? So in January of 1996, a pattern of disappearances began that would haunt the Belgian city of Mons for years to come. Carmelina Rousseau, a 42-year-old woman, vanished after visiting her imprisoned son on January 4th.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And her disappearance might have remained just another missing persons case, but 17 days later, fishermen made a grim discovery in the Scheldt River in Northern France, and it would be Rousseau's pelvis. which was deliberately severed from the rest of her body. And this would just mark the beginning of a series of methodical dismembered victims.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And six months later, Martine Bone, a 43-year-old former sejual worker, disappeared on July 21st. And her dismembered torso was subsequently recovered from the Hain River. And investigators noted a particularly disturbing detail. Her breasts had been deliberately removed from her body, suggesting a sensual motivation behind the killer's methodology. Just a fucking monster.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the precision of these cuts initially led authorities to consider medical training as a prerequisite for the predator, which would make sense. Or some sort of butcher, somebody who's worked with bodies before. And the pattern would continue into December when Jacqueline Leclerc, a 33-year-old mother of four, went missing on the 22nd.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
well-maintained homes with manicured lawns, good schools, and a pervasive sense of safety that would soon become shattered. And during this period before cellular phones and instant communication and the interwebs, children regularly ventured out until dusk, expected to return home when the street lights illuminated.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And unlike the previous victims, her remains weren't discovered until March of the following year, when Officer Oliver Mott recovered garbage bags containing her severed arms and legs. And the delay between disappearances and discovery raised questions about the killer's storage capabilities. And by March 1997, 21-year-old Natalie Goddard became the fourth victim.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Though not involved in sexual work, investigators noted she had been described as promiscuous and was struggling with personal issues, severe enough that her child had actually been placed in protective care. And her torso was recovered from the same waterway as Bond's remains, the Hain River.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the killer's final known victim would be Begonia Valencia, a 37-year-old woman with schizophrenia who disappeared from frameries during the summer of 1997. And only her skull would be recovered in the area of Haiyan, suggesting an evolution in disposal methods or decomposition that prevented further remains from being located. He was just getting a lot better at hiding the remains.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And forensic analysis would reveal disturbing detail that investigators initially overlooked. The preservation state of various body parts differed significantly. Some remains appeared relatively fresh, while others showed evidence of refrigeration, indicating the killer likely stored dismembered parts for extended periods before the actual disposal.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And this suggested both access to suitable refrigeration facilities and a disturbing level of planning. And perhaps most chilling was the killer's apparent psychological signature in the selection of the disposal sites. Locations with macabre names became favored dumping grounds.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Rue des Dipots, literally Dump Street, Chemin de l'Équitude, which is Path of Worry, and rivers with unsettling names like Paine, which is Hate, and Trois, which is Jitters. And this deliberate selection of symbolically charged locations suggested a perpetrator who incorporated psychological elements into their methodology.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So the symbolically charged disposal sites just reflected a killer with psychological sophistication. Yet the Belgian judicial system response would prove remarkably insufficient. Despite establishing a specialized investigative unit, authorities gradually abandoned their pursuit of the butcher while dismembered bodies continued to appear throughout the region.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And in the aftermath of the killings, Belgian authorities formed the Corpus Investigative Unit under Magistrate Pierre Pellet. And this represented the nation's most concentrated efforts to identify and apprehend the methodical killer, terrorizing Mons. However, from its inception, the unit faced substantial institutional constraints.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Despite the brutality and sophistication of the crimes, Belgian officials classified the case as merely local, failing to allocate adequate resources for what was clearly a complex serial murder investigation. So the systemic dismantling of the investigative effort became evident as years passed without an arrest.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And by 2007, what had begun as a substantial team had been reduced to only four investigators. And the dramatic reduction occurred even as the unit had examined nearly 1,000 complaints over 13 years. demonstrating a very troubling administrative indifference to solving the case.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
In this environment, a perceived safety created the perfect hunting ground for a predator who would eventually launch what became the largest manhunt in US history at the time, involving a task force that would process over 18,000 tips and interrogate more than 1,500 suspects.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the lack of modern forensic techniques available at the time further hampered investigators, limiting their ability to extract DNA evidence or effectively share information across international borders. And the investigation eventually developed significant international dimensions. In 2007, Montenegrin authorities arrested Smael Tolja, who emerged as the investigator's most compelling suspect.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And Tolja's crime history included a strikingly similar murder in New York in 1990, where victim Mary Beale was dismembered and placed in garbage bags, a methodology nearly identical to the butcher's signature.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And additionally, evidence against Tolja included his confirmed presence in Belgium during the Mons murders, his romantic connection to the New York victim, and a bloodstain discovered in his apartment. Yet investigators never secured conclusive proof linking him to the Belgium killings.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And Tolga's death in a Montenegrin prison in 2012 permanently foreclosed any possibility of obtaining a confession or conducting additional DNA comparisons. But good fucking rhythms anyway. But other suspects emerged throughout the investigation.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Jacques Antoine, a French doctor, became a person of interest after his son wrote letters to police accusing him of carrying black trash bags while living in Mons during the murder period. But these accusations ultimately held very little weight, undermined by inconsistencies and the son's peculiar focus on his father's firearm collection, rather than behaviors related to dismemberment.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Basically just a kid wanting to get rid of his father. And British citizen, john sweeney convicted of dismemberment murders in both amsterdam and london represented another plausible suspect based on his potential presence in belgium between his known killings however authorities never established a definitive connection between sweeney and the mons murders just another piece of shit i guess
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But the butcher of Mon's case exposed system failures in Belgium law enforcement, turning a major manhunt into a disjointed, under-resourced investigation. An expert suggests that the killer's meticulous planning skills and possible medical training allowed him to evade capture while preying on society's most vulnerable.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the case is mishandling his fuel discussions on understanding perpetrator psychology and underscored the need for interagency cooperation and proper resource allocation.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Though officially unsolved, its legacy has influenced investigative reforms at least, ensuring greater institutional accountability, changes that, while too late for the victims, may help prevent similar failures in the future. And with that, we move on to our last unsolved serial killer murder case.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
San Francisco's foggy beaches and secluded parks became the hunting ground for this methodical predator. Ocean Beach, with its desolate stretches of sand shrouded in mist, served as the backdrop for the Doodler's first confirmed murder. On January 27th, 1974, the body of Gerard Earl Cavanaugh was discovered there, bearing multiple stab wounds.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So in the quiet suburban neighborhoods of Oakland County, Michigan, a chilling series of events unfolded between 1976 and 1977 that would forever change the community's sense of security. The area, known for its affluent neighborhoods and family-friendly atmosphere, became the hunting ground for one of America's most methodical child killers.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
The 49-year-old's death marked the beginning of a pattern that would terrorize the city's gay community for 18 months, leaving bodies scattered across Ocean Beach, Golden Gate Park, and Lincoln Park. And the pattern linking these homicides together emerged gradually as each new victim was discovered.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
What began as seemingly unrelated crimes soon revealed a methodical perpetrator with consistent targets and methods. And Kavanaugh's defensive wounds indicated a violent struggle against his attacker. The 17 stab wounds demonstrating a level of aggression that would become a characteristic of the killer's approach.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the investigators initially treated this as an isolated incident, failing to recognize the beginning of a systemic campaign of violence. And only five months later, the killer would strike again. Joseph Stevens, known professionally as Jay, was discovered near Spreckles Lake with five stab wounds.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the location of his abandoned car suggested he had willingly accompanied his killer to the secluded area of Golden Gate Park, likely anticipating a sexual encounter. And as a performer in San Francisco's nightlife, Stevens represented a more visible target within the gay community. And the brutality escalated drastically with the third victim.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Just 12 days after Stevens' death, so his cool-down period has drastically gotten shorter, Klaus Christmann's body appeared at Ocean Beach. the German visitor suffered what investigators described as an extraordinarily vicious attack, with slashes to his throat so severe they appeared to be an attempt at decapitation. And this marked a significant intensification in the killer's violence.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And then nearly a year would pass before Frederick Kappen became the fourth victim. The decorated Vietnam veteran received 16 precisely delivered stab wounds that pierced vital organs, including the heart. Evidence at Ocean Beach revealed his body had been dragged 20 feet through the sand, suggesting the killer was becoming more methodical in positioning his victims.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the final confirmed kill was Harold Gulberg, who was discovered in an advanced state of decomposition on June 4th, 1975 at Lincoln Park. And the 66-year-old Swedish American's body told a different story. He had been dead for approximately two weeks. and found with his underwear removed and pants unzipped, further confirming the sexual dimension of these crimes.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But this wasn't even the end, as police had no clue during the investigation if more bodies turning up truly were from the same murderer or just random acts of violence. But behind the gruesome murders lay a method as distinctive as it was disturbing. The doodler's artistic talent transformed ordinary bar encounters into deadly traps.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
His approach demonstrated a calculated precision that set him apart from other killers operating during the same period. The doodler prowled San Francisco's vibrant gay scene, primarily targeting establishments in Castro, Pope Gulch, and Tenderloin districts. And popular venues such as Cinch Saloon and Cabaret Club became his hunting grounds where he implemented his signature strategy.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Rather than relying on physical intimidation, he disarmed potential victims through his artistic abilities. sketching portraits of men he encountered as a non-threatening means of introduction. One survivor actually recounted meeting the killer at a diner where he was drawing animals on a napkin, using this talent as a conversation starter.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the nightmare would begin on February 15th, 1976 when 12-year-old Mark Stebbins left the American Legion Hall in Ferndale. And what should have been a routine walk home turned into an irreversible tragedy. Four days after his disappearance, Mark's body would be discovered in a Southfield parking lot. carefully arranged on a pile of wood and dirt.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And this deceptively innocent approach allowed him to establish trust with his targets.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
would just willingly accompany him to secluded locations typically near water and these isolated areas known as a gay hookup spots in the 1970s provided both privacy for sexual encounters and the perfect setting for murder and the violence of the attacks just indicated extreme rage and the positioning of the bodies followed a consistent pattern with victims discovered in outdoor locations near water furthermore the killer would strip victims of identification completely
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
making it more difficult for authorities to connect cases and identify the deceased. But three individuals survived encounters with the doodler, providing crucial details about his methodology. A European diplomat suffered six stab wounds, but managed to escape with his life.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And another survivor described as a well-known entertainer fled when a knife fell from the attacker's coat, revealing his deadly intentions before an attack could commence. And the third survivor left San Francisco entirely and refused to cooperate with investigators. But the psychological profile that emerged suggested a perpetrator struggling with his own sexual identity.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
The extraordinary violence directed at gay men indicated possible internalized homophobia. Perhaps a person unable to accept his own homosexual desires and projecting that self-hatred onto others, which we've seen in multiple other serial killer cases involving the gay community.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And witness descriptions consistently depicted a young black man between 19 and 25 years old, approximately six feet tall, who demonstrated both artistic skill and capacity for extreme violence. So the psychological assessment pointing to internalized homophobia took on a disturbing new dimension.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
In late 1975, a psychiatrist contacted police about a patient who had confessed at the Ocean Beach murders. And this revelation brought investigators tantalizingly close to solving the case. Yet the doodler would ultimately slip through their grasp due to circumstances that reveal as much about 1970s America as they do about the killer himself.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the investigation was led by a formidable team, Ortea Guilford and Earl Sanders, African-American homicide inspectors nicknamed the Soul Brothers, who had earned reputations for their meticulous work. They had constructed a very detailed case file that included a police sketch and narrowing list of suspects.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And when the psychiatrist came forward with the information about his patient's confession, investigators believed they had finally identified their perpetrator. These guys look badass. These guys look badass as fuck. That's awesome. And under questioning, the prime suspect acknowledged his struggles with sexual identity, but denied committing the murders completely.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And without physical evidence definitively connecting him to the crimes, authorities found themselves in an evidentiary stalemate. The case now hinged entirely on testimony from the three survivors who encountered and escaped the doodler. And the sociopolitical climate of the 1970s created an insurmountable barrier to justice, basically.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Homosexuality remained classified as a mental illness by American Psychiatric Association until 1973. And the stigma persisted long after declassification. Gay men face potential loss of employment, housing, and social standing if publicly outed. And for the European diplomat, testimony would have meant career destruction, basically.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So their lives were on the line with the doodler, but also their lives were on the line with the public. And for the entertainer and the well-known survivor, public identification as a homosexual threatened their livelihoods and personal safety. And relations between law enforcement and the LGBTQ plus community further complicated matters.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Police raids on gay establishments were common practice throughout the 1960s and even early 1970s, fostering a deep institutional distrust. And many gay men viewed police not as protectors, but as persecutors, making cooperation with authorities a fraught proposition, even where their own safety was at stake.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the autopsy revealed a disturbing level of premeditation, which is essentially planning the murder before it happened. Mark had been strangled and essayed with a foreign object. And the rope marks on his wrist and ankles indicated he had been bound during his captivity. While two lacerations on his head suggested violent trauma.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Harvey Milk, who would later become San Francisco's first openly gay elected official, captured the impossible position of the survivors when he stated, quote unquote, I understand their position. I respect the pressure society has put on them. And this acknowledgement from one of the community's most prominent advocates highlighted the devastating reality.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Societal homophobia had effectively granted the doodler immunity from prosecution, which is just so... So this serial killer got away with it due to society being basically, just a big, big society piece of shit. But despite the advances in forensic science and investigative techniques, these cases remain one of the most haunting unsolved crimes in modern history.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
The Oakland County child killer, Bible John, the Butcher of Mons, and the Doodler each left behind not just a trail of victims, but an enduring sense of unease. Their identities obscured by time, speculation, and incomplete evidence. While theories abound from lone predators to potential conspiracies, justice has never been fully realized for the victims.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And as cold cases continue to revisit with new technology, one pressing question remains. Could one of these elusive killers still be alive today, hidden in plain sight? I don't know, but all I do know is that I care about you and I want you to stay safe, so... Be safe out there and let me know what other cases you would like me to go over down below.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
The cold cases are always good, I think, to shine a light on them. You know, you never know who's going to see. You never know what's going to happen. But yeah, I'm tired. Tired of this, of these people. They're not people, they're monsters. I hope they're rotting in hell. And I hope you're just cozied up with some popcorn and a snack or something.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And despite years of investigation, shifting theories and modern forensic advancements, the identities remain a mystery. Were these crimes the work of singular calculating individuals or is there something more sinister lurking beneath the surface? Today, we explore four of the most perplexing unsolved serial murder cases. Killers who disappeared into the shadows and perhaps are still out there.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But I hope you have a good rest of your morning, afternoon, or night. And I will see you beautiful face in the next video. Okay, stay safe out there. Bye.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Just a real special place in the depths of the asshole of hell for the person who did this. It's just sickening. And obviously police would investigate, but they would come up with nothing. And less than a year later, on December 22nd, 1976, another family's world would collapse when 12-year-old Jill Robinson left home after arguing with her mother.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Her bicycle was recovered behind a hobby store the following day, but Jill herself remained missing until December 26th. when her body was discovered alongside Interstate 75 in Troy. And perhaps most disturbing was the evidence that she had been cared for during the three days before her murder, still wearing her backpack and fully clothed when found.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So the killer was obviously a fucking monster, but there was a side of him that had remorse for these kids or felt like he still needed to treat them like kids, like actually care for them. But it's just like, it's not even like in the realm of okay. There's no like, oh, that's kind of, no, no. He literally killed these kids, so.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the pattern continued on January 2nd, 1977, when 10-year-old Christine Millick vanished after visiting a 7-Eleven store. Her ordeal lasted 19 days before her body was recovered on a rural road in Franklin Village. The killer had smothered Christine less than 24 hours before the placement of her body, which was positioned very carefully within view of nearby homes.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
A signature of the perpetrator's methodical approach. He wanted these kids to be found. The premeditation and planning before these murders is just like insane. Like he thought about how he was going to do it, when he was going to do it, and exactly how they were going to be found and probably when they were going to be found as well.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the final confirmed victim, 11-year-old Timothy King, disappeared on March 16th, 1977, during a trip to a local pharmacy. And when found six days later in a shallow ditch along Gill Road in Livonia, Timothy had been SA'd with a foreign object as well as the first victim and also suffocated.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And most disturbingly, he had been fed Kentucky Fried Chicken, his favorite meal, shortly before his death. So it's like the killer is trying to make up for everything that he did at the end of it, just thinking that that's going to wipe his slate clean in any way, shape, or form, when it's obviously not the case. He deserves to be killed.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Well, maybe I shouldn't say what he deserves because I'm thinking a lot of things and I don't think I could legally say it on the internet. But what distinguished these murders from other serial killers was the meticulous attention paid to the victims. Each body was found in public areas, meticulously cleaned and dressed.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the unnerving level of care to the perpetrator being dubbed the babysitter killer. And despite the different causes of death, investigators linked the cases through consistent physical evidence. including golden carpet fibers and white animal hair found on all the victims' clothing.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And those golden carpet fibers and white animal hair would lead investigators down a very disturbing path, directly to a network of wealthy individuals with connections to child exploitation. Just the Fucking scum of the earth.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And as detectives pursued these forensic clues, they uncovered a case far more complex than a lone predator, suggesting the possibility of powerful figures working to ensure certain suspects remained beyond the reach of justice. Just corrupt fucking bullshit. So Christopher Bush emerged as one of the most compelling suspects in the investigation.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
The son of a wealthy General Motors executive, Bush had already been convicted as a EDF, aisle and maintain connections to an organized child corn network operating in North Fox Island. And the timing proved particularly suspicious. Police had questioned Bush shortly before Timothy King's abduction.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And more disturbingly, evidence would link him to a child exploiting ring run by Francis Sheldon, suggesting access to vulnerable children through an established network, which is just like...
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
mind-boggling and horrifying to think about and it's just it's something that happens every day and that people just i mean you know turn a blind eye to and it's just so horrifying because it happens in other countries but it is also happening in our backyards so
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Crime, conspiracy, cults, serial killers, and murder. All things that I love to consume, and I know you do too, you sick, beautiful, intellectually-minded freak. And today we are doing just that. We are talking about serial killers that have evaded capture and that could possibly be still out there, which is absolutely horrifying.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
i mean i think it's an important topic no matter what and in november 1978 investigators discovered bush dead from what appeared to be sluerslide just easy way out piece of and the scene raised immediate red flags blood-stained ropes lay nearby and a hand-drawn image resembling victim mark stebbins hung on his wall
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the suspicious circumstances intensified when the entire Oakland County Task Force disbanded just days after Bush's death, having exhausted a $2 million budget. And some investigators later suggested his death may have been staged to prevent him from revealing accomplices of power associates, which sounds... Right to me.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Yet the case against Bush collapsed in 2012 when DNA testing excluded him as a contributor to biological evidence found on the victims. Bet you didn't expect that. And this forensic setback occurred despite the wealth of circumstantial evidence pointing to his involvement, which I still think he was involved in some way. Absolutely.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Other suspects presented equally promising yet ultimately inconclusive leads. Ted Lamborghini, I know, a Detroit autoworker. I know, who operated a pedo ring in the Cass Corridor during the same period, became a primary suspect in 2005.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And convicted murderer Richard Lawson implicated Lamborghini during an interview, but when offered a plea deal to reduce a sentence in exchange for taking a polygraph regarding the Oakland County murders, Lamborghini refused. Just scum of the earth. And DNA evidence brought investigators to convicted PDF
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
aisle Ark Sloan in 2012, when forensic testing revealed that hairs found on the victims matched hair recovered from Sloan's vehicle. And curiously, the DNA didn't match Sloan himself, suggesting someone who had been in his car or that he let borrow his car for, you know, nefarious, murderous reasons.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But perhaps most telling was James Vincent Gunnels, who had actually been SA'd by Christopher Bush as a teenager. And forensic testing found his DNA potentially matched a hair on victim Christine Miliak, though the statistical probability being only one to 150 proved too low for conclusive identification. And Gunnels has consistently denied any involvement.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So time marched relentlessly forward while justice stood still. And nearly five decades after the horrific killings that terrorized Oakland County, the case remains unsolved despite remarkable advances in forensic technology. And for Timothy King's father, Barry, the quest for answers became his life's mission, which like, how could it not being a parent?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
You know, I just like, ah, my heart just goes out to all these families. And this journey unfortunately ended in 2020 when he passed away without ever learning who murdered his son. And the systemic investigative failures point to disturbing possibilities.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And that's why I'm telling you today, because I want you to be safe. My little baby girl, I want you to be safe. Okay. If you're a 40 year old man watching this, I'm calling you baby girl as well. All right.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
An exceptionally meticulous killer who left minimal evidence, protection of connected individuals through institutional interference, or fundamental errors in the initial investigation that can never be remedied. But whatever the truth, the Oakland County child killer case
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
stands as a sobering reminder that even with extensive resources, justice remains tragically elusive for some victims, leaving their families to endure the cruelest of uncertainties. But my heart goes out to the victims and the victims' families, and whoever did this, I hope you're rotting in hell. Let's move on.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
Glasgow, Scotland in the late 1960s was experiencing the cultural upheaval common throughout Western societies at the time. The city's working class population found escape at venues like Burrowland Ballroom, a popular dance hall where young people gathered to socialize.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And against this backdrop, a series of murders began on February 22nd, 1968, when 25-year-old Patricia Docker attended the ballroom. And the young nurse and mother left the venue alone and was discovered the following morning in a doorway near Langside Place, strangled and partially clothed, and her personal belongings missing from the scene completely.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And Patricia Docker balanced complex responsibilities as her life was cut short. The 25-year-old auxiliary nurse managed night shifts while caring for her four-year-old son, Sandy, during a period of separation from her husband, who served with RAF in Lincolnshire.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So without further ado, let's unbuckle our seatbelts, go Mach 5 down the highway, slam on the brakes, and bust through this windshield into these four unsolved murder serial killer cases together. Alright, before I get started, I need to put on my freaking glasses because I can't see. Gather round because now it's Chris Reads Screens! Wow! Oakland County, Michigan, 1976.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And on that fateful February evening in 1968, Patricia told her parents she was visiting the Majestic Ballroom, but instead went to Boroughland. known for its over 25 nights where attendees often removed wedding rings, seeking temporary anonymity from their complicated lives. Some shady shit going on in the 60s, I tell you what.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But Patricia would go to this ballroom and leave, and then obviously lose her life, which is...
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
extremely horrible but would lead us to our second victim which would be jemima mcdonald and jemima maintained a household as a single mother to three children elizabeth who was 11 years old andrew who's eight years old and alan who was seven described by acquaintances as clean and well cared for jemima ensured her children were properly looked after despite the challenges of sole parenthood
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And her murder in August of 1969 fractured the family unit she had worked so hard to maintain. And the aftermath proved additionally devastating as her three children were separated and placed in different care homes, causing a secondary tragedy that extended beyond the initial death. Just so heartbreaking. And then we have Helen Puttick. Now, Helen Puttick would be the final victim.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And she had recently returned to Glasgow with her husband, George, an army serviceman. and their two young sons, David and Michael. And the night of her murder in October, 1969, represented a rare evening of personal freedom, a brief respite from maternal obligations while her husband would remain home with her children.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the cruel irony that Helen was killed steps away from the domestic safety she had temporarily left behind underscores the tragedy's senselessness. but all three women shared significant commonalities beyond their connection to Borland. Each was a mother seeking brief independence from their demanding domestic responsibilities.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
And the over-25s night at Borland offered a socially acceptable outlet for married women to experience autonomy in an era of limited freedom. And perhaps most significantly, each was menstruating at the time. Damn, which is just... So odd. But a biological detail that potentially influenced the killer's victim selection? Maybe.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
But the bright lights of Glasgow's Borland Ballroom concealed a methodical predator whose selection process went beyond mere opportunism. This venue, where married patrons often removed their wedding rings for anonymous encounters, provided the perfect hunting ground for a killer whose approach suggested calculated religious motivations rather than random violence.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 39 | These Serial Killers Are STILL Out There
So he was seeking these people out specifically. people who were set out to be unfaithful to their partners. He didn't like that, not one bit. So when investigators initially focused on the Majestic Ballroom rather than the Borough Land following Patricia Docker's murder, they inadvertently compromised crucial evidence collection during the critical early hours of the investigation.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 33 | The Most DISTURBING LIVE TV Moments In History
He called me to get in. You can't just walk in here. He called me and said that he was Max Dolman's son and he lived in the East and that he had never had the opportunity to see his dad while he was on our air. And could he come down and watch the show?
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
Like, you can break down the SoulCycle classes. Row one, you don't have to do anything. They're already in the front row. They're totally comfortable. They know their shit. Second row is the row of indecision. Like, they probably can go to the front row, but they really want to stay anonymous somehow. And then the back row...
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
is I call it the smoking lounge of SoulCycle because you've got really talented people. They know their shit. Sometimes they just want to be left alone. But they also, because the third row is elevated, they like to watch the entire room. They have the best seat in the house. And then to the right and left of the podium, the sidebar, honestly, they are the closest to me.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
They're also exhibitionists because they really want to be up there and seen.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
As NoHo was opening, the neighborhood was transitioning really at a breakneck pace. It was a little quiet at night, a little, you know, what's out there at night. But on the sidewalks prior to the studio opening, someone, someone had spray painted yellow wheels. that went from one place to the studio, then from the train to the studio.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
I don't know who could have painted those yellow wheels, but that was, we're coming to town. And it didn't take very long because there were students and people in the neighborhood that did want a place to move. And let me tell you, if your studio was great, it is a direct result of your front desk and your manager and your ASM, a direct result.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
It's a room of people who don't know each other's last names in the dark. We're on a bike. You're going nowhere. But we went everywhere. We went everywhere. I saw such emotional, physical, and spiritual landscape in every single class.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
No one wanted that spot. I wanted that spot because I would like to work out at 8.30 at night and I cannot be the only nut who feels that way. And so I dug my heels in. It started with a few people, got bigger and bigger and bigger.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
Well, the earth shattered beneath our feet when Janet left. So many of her tribe were, oh my God, where is she going? She's going to a place called SoulCycle in New York City, which we knew nothing about. Oh, but we would. We would.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
Like, how the hell am I supposed to teach these classes? And she gave me the single best piece of advice I've ever gotten, which is, teach it the way you want to take it. Don't cater something to them. Do the thing that you really want. Play the music that you really believe in, because if you love it, they love it.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
I also had in my head, I'm good. I've got a great career. I have a house. I didn't want for anything. But in the back of my head, I'm like, God, this is so good. I don't know if I could do that. Like, I really didn't know if I could do that. Because that is a hell of a lot of physicality, six days a week, and to knock it out of the park every single time. And it scared me the right way.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I can. And then they started to say this stuff that really perked my ears up. SoulCycle is a really great place to work. You'll be insured. You'll have a 401k. You'll be taken care of. You're being hired for your talent. And I was like, you know what? After being an indie contractor for this many years, it is tiring.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
And I have no intention to purchase my own studio and have a triple net lease and deal with insurance and deal with employees. None of it. I don't want that overhead responsibility, but I definitely want to do what I want to do, how I want to do it. So I auditioned along with a bunch of other people. It was nerve wracking because my favorite instructors from L.A.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
were there along with Janet, which is always a terrifying prospect if you're a new instructor.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
All of us sat on our hands until the 4th of July. Nobody, not one instructor, not one leaked out any information as to whether we got it or not. And now at the time, that was the top of the bar to work at SoulCycle. It was the top of the fitness bar for numerous reasons, and we can get into that later. But to get a nod, it was like getting a nod from the academy.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
And for the first time in a long time, I was nervous. I'm like, oh my God, what if I don't get it? I was like, I'll be okay. But I was like, I really wanted this. And so on the 4th of July, through a letter and an email, congratulations, I still have the letter at home. You've been welcomed into the program and pretty much you leave in a month.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
We had to really work to go to training. We had to work to stay in training, practice choreography, practice riding on the beat, practice riding on your opposite leg, which is we try to ride on the left, not the right. We were encouraged to make it personal. but not have a yard sale of emotion.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
We had to practice saying things as we were riding to be able to ride fast and hard and do all that and be able to articulate something is difficult. So we practice that. We practice what if there's somebody in row, whatever, who's doing their own thing, how do you reel that in? And Janet's great at that. When to leave you guys alone. You know, when to leave you guys alone.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
And there's a point where you ride, you ride, you do all these different textured movements, but when to not talk. Wait, why am I talking? Wait, why am I talking? Because you want to give people room to arrive at themselves. I make sure you have the quiet time.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
They taught us how to do that, how to create space. We do not manage or manipulate. We give you a space where you can ask all of the questions.
Cult of Body & Soul
3. "Noon on Monday"
And none of us are therapists. In fact, a lot were ex-attorneys. But having that plain speak was key. And we kept getting groomed. It was a terrible word. We kept getting encouraged how to access more and more of that language to speak more and more of that truth and to give you more and more space.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Devil's in the Details
When Jennifer's having this conversation with investigators and they're saying, hey, did you ever leave insulin over there for your son? No, never. You never left it over? No, there was no reason to. Was there ever a reason you gave her insulin? Oh yeah, the time she got sick and she needed it because of her blood sugar and because of her cancer. When was that? Well, let's look. Oh my goodness.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Devil's in the Details
That's the day Mike fell out. So absolutely.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Devil's in the Details
And so because of all those facts now come together that were unknown and that piggybacked with the fact that she had just been raided And so that's why when I said for us, it all really came together at really kind of one moment.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
We're sitting there trying to figure out what really happened to our mom.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
And there was another, even more awkward story Kay felt she needed to share with Judy's sons.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
I don't want to tell y'all this, but I'm going to tell you. She said, your mom, she said that Jamie's been trying to get your mom to have a threesome with him and Terry. What? Yeah.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
We got to find somebody to help us, and we got to, you know, get some answers.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
That's what we're thinking. Okay, the police is going to hit on this something. I mean, somebody's looking into this.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
You could breathe a little bit. I mean, he's arrested, like, for the murder of my mom.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
I thought it would get thrown out. I thought it was going to have a huge impact.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
We're sitting there trying to figure out what really happened to our mom. The rumor mill is in overdrive.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
I was the first one there. And I, you know, running to the emergency side, and I was like, you know, where's Judy Orr Baldwin at? And they was like, we don't have a Judy Orr Baldwin. I was like, they've been in a wreck. I was like, is Jamie Baldwin here? Josh found his stepdad, Jamie, in a hospital room. I was like, where's my mom at? He was like, she didn't make it.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
I was like, what do you mean she didn't make it? And he said, she's dead.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
It felt like a dream. I mean, I was like, I cannot believe we're going through this again.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
I know nothing's perfect, but our family was, we didn't have any problems and we were all happy. And you know, our parents are gone.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
Safe, you know, protecting somebody that would help her if she was in need, you know, somebody that had her back.
Dateline NBC
The Black Box
Oh, yeah, they were extremely happy. And, you know, her being happy, I'm extremely happy.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: 11 Minutes
And I walked in the house, and of course, the other two kids were playing in the house. I said, look, I need you to come into the living room or the kitchen so I can talk to you. They came in and sat down at the table and I said, look, there's no easy way for me to tell you this, but your dad shot your mom and killed himself and we got to go to the hospital. And I didn't know how to tell them.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: 11 Minutes
I think I looked at Tanya and I said, my God, I got to tell them their parents are gone. How do you tell two kids that? And she said, you just tell them. And that's what I did.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
So she'll jog through right here on Boundary Street between the bush and this house. It only lasts about a second and a half. And if you expand the video, you can actually see the ponytail bouncing as she jogs. And there she goes.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
Now the timing of cars coming and going starts to matter because immediately the first thing after you see when she goes by is this black Chevy Malibu.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
Once we saw her on the video, then we knew that was a valid witness sighting, and now everything started to fall into place.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
I go to work at like 5 or 5.30 and I get out at about 5, about 12 hours. That's a lot of hours. It's a lot. That's what we're here for.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
Because of the posters and all that. I think later it started appearing on Facebook. A lot of my friends were sharing that.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
I don't feel bad because, well, I didn't do anything. What else do you want me to tell you?
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
He had the advantage of surprise. I do remember that I was fighting with her.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
I remember that we were in the corn. Mm-hmm. Like, I remember that's where I put her.
Dateline NBC
The Last Mile
After she goes by, you see this black Chevy Malibu. We were thinking, what are the odds that we'll ever find this car?
Dateline NBC
11 Minutes
Well, at that point, though, I had not seen any evidence. At that point, I'd only seen my sister. I had seen that her hand was wrapped in gauze, which tells me that something happened to her hand. And at some point, I think somebody told me she was shot through the head, which is a defensive position.
Dateline NBC
11 Minutes
Right. I mean, he was, at one point, he was the mayor of Aglectic, the fire chief. He's the best paramedic I know. His drug problem got away from him and just down the hill he went.
Dateline NBC
11 Minutes
It's an opportunity for Michael to say, look, you know, if the two of us were together, this probably wouldn't have happened.
Dateline NBC
11 Minutes
That ship has sailed, and I think at that point Michael just snapped. I think Michael killed April and then killed himself. I think Michael... couldn't face the world knowing he killed his wife, and all the option left for him was to end his own life.
Dateline NBC
11 Minutes
I sat down with him and I had a long talk with him and I said, look, this is not the lifestyle you want to choose.
Dateline NBC
11 Minutes
Someone else called Michael and said, my kid came home from your house under the influence of something, and I want to know why. So Michael's embarrassed at that point. Michael calls everyone and says, you need to get to my house. We've got to deal with this.
Dateline NBC
11 Minutes
At that point, I didn't know what to think. I didn't know if Madison did it. I didn't know if he didn't do it. I wasn't there. I had not seen any evidence.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Thank you very much.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
It's what I do, my dear. So tell us about it. Yeah. No, I adore it. You know, people are fascinating. The stories are fascinating. It's always a challenge. And when you're lucky, you make art. And at the very least, you give them what they need to tell the story, you know?
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Yeah, no traffic court.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Nope, nope.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Well, since I've been doing it for 50 years, you know, there's all the Mafia trials, you know, John Gotti and Vinnie the Chin Gigante was a very interesting character. And then there was Leona and Martha and Imelda Marcos, you know, all the queens.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Yes.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
It's both things. You know, you want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them and you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom. You know, you can't help but feel that there was a tension between P. Diddy and, you know, Cassie. I could see it on her, you know, because, you know, she held her own, but she wept a little.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
And Diddy, of course, is fighting for his life. So, you know, he's in warrior mode.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Sure.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
three to five or six. After two weeks, I counted that I'd done 39 drawings. Okay. And I haven't added up It's next week, but it's, you know, I'm doing a lot.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Right.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
I think he's been working out a ton. Okay. He's got a very broad back. He looks solid. Solid, okay. Yeah. And then, of course, everyone's fascinated that he can't get hair dye. Is he all gray then? Nope. He's salt and pepper on the sides, a little whiter on top, and his little tiny goatee is very white. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
I've done very little of it. For the most part, I get a lot of affirmation, you know? Puffy Combs' mom is sitting behind me, and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up. She likes the way I'm drawing her son. Really? Yeah. And I said, well, ma'am, do you mind if I draw you? And she right away started posing for me.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Sometimes, yeah.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
You know, I was looking at Puffy on the first day of trial with my binoculars up.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
Yes, ma'am.
Dateline NBC
Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.
And I will use them even if somebody is not sitting terribly far away from me because I want to see as much as I can see. So anyway, I had my binoculars on him and I see him looking straight at me. So it sort of feels like a social faux pas. I put him down like almost comically quickly and he went...
Dateline NBC
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
Welcome back, everybody. This is Christine Cornell. People are fascinating. The stories are fascinating. It's always a challenge.
Dateline NBC
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
It's both things. You want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them, and you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom. You can't help but feel that there was a tension between P. Diddy and, you know, Cassie. Yeah. I could see it on her, you know, because, you know, she held her own, but she wept a little. Mm-hmm. And Diddy, of course, is fighting for his life.
Dateline NBC
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
You can draw them. You just don't draw them in any detail. In any detail. Okay. You know, I did one yesterday because I've been asked a lot, how's the jury reacting? Yeah. And I think they were incredibly pained by Steele's cross-examination of Mia because she was shrunk into herself. She kept her head down. I've never seen a witness not make eye contact with anybody in the courtroom.
Dateline NBC
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
For the most part, I get a lot of affirmation, you know? Puffy Combs' mom is sitting behind me, and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up. She likes the way I'm drawing her son. Really? Yeah. And I said, well, ma'am, do you mind if I draw you? And she right away started posing for me.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
Welcome back, everybody. This is Christine Cornell. People are fascinating. The stories are fascinating. It's always a challenge.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
It's both things. You want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them, and you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom. You can't help but feel that there was a tension between P. Diddy and, you know, Cassie. Yeah. I could see it on her, you know, because, you know, she held her own, but she wept a little. Mm-hmm. And Diddy, of course, is fighting for his life.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
You can draw them. You just don't draw them in any detail. In any detail. Okay. You know, I did one yesterday because I've been asked a lot, how's the jury reacting? Yeah. And I think they were incredibly pained by Steele's cross-examination of Mia because she was shrunk into herself. She kept her head down. I've never seen a witness not make eye contact with anybody in the courtroom.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
Sean Combs: "Jane" takes the stand.
For the most part, I get a lot of affirmation, you know? Puffy Combs' mom is sitting behind me, and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up. She likes the way I'm drawing her son. Really? Yeah. And I said, well, ma'am, do you mind if I draw you? And she right away started posing for me.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
I hope that makes it better. So my pitch is the troubled teen industry. Oh. It kind of encompasses wilderness therapy programs, boarding schools. basically a bunch of programs that can range from, you know, going camping for a while to going to a wildly abusive boarding school. Um, there's been deaths, a lot of abuse allegations, programs have been shut down.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Um, so yeah, just, uh, obviously I'm not an expert, but I can speak from my personal experience on it. So
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
So when I was 17, I got sent to a wilderness program. So they have these people called transporters or teen escorts, which sounds worse. Yeah. It does sound awful. Both aren't great. They look like Jason Statham. I really wish they did. No, they were actually really nice, but they showed up in my room at about four in the morning, unexpected, and said, hey, you're coming with us.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
And so there are these two huge dudes completely out of the blue. And I was obviously very confused, but they had zip ties.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yes. So I think before all that, usually you'll meet with somebody called a educational consultant. And these people's job is basically to convince families that the teens need to go to these programs. Um, And allegedly I've heard they receive kickbacks from the programs. That's unconfirmed. They sound like salespeople for these facilities. Very American, very American. Very American.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
And so they have a meeting with the kid and the parents and they say, you know, this is what we think is best. This kid is in dire need of help. He's going to die, blah, blah, blah, whatever the case is. Um, obviously the parents are very concerned in a lot of cases, they don't know what to do. So they'll say, okay, let's do this.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Um, but if the kid says I'm not going, um, that's where transporters come in.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yes. Um, so they say, you know, you can come with us peacefully or we can take you. Um, and I ask, where are we going? And they say, it doesn't matter. We're going. Um, and so, um, my mom had gone to stay in a hotel with my sister. So they weren't there. Um, my dad was there and he just said, I think all he said was like, you know, this is for your, for your own good, something to that effect.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Um, and so I put in a car with these guys. Um, they were actually very nice. Um, we didn't have any problems, but it's a very strange situation. Yeah.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah. So they drove me to an airport. Then we flew, um, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. So we flew from SFO up to Redlands in Oregon, I think. And then they took me to a doctor where I had my blood drawn and they fucked up. So my whole arm turned like black and green and stuff. But then they drove me to Bend, Oregon, where the kind of base camp was for this program.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Uh, and then they gave me, well, they strip searched me, um, do all that.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Still unaware, yeah. Yeah, basically you have no idea. You're just kind of going with it because you can't do anything else. So they give you a bunch of camping gear. They give you hiking boots that don't... That's so weird. It's real weird. It's very strange. It's just mind-blowing. Okay, you give me some gear, I give you a tent and some boots. No tents. Okay. I wish we had tents.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
No, we had a tarp. Each person gets a tarp. Uh-huh.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
some cordage so you have to learn how to build a shelter out of a tarp and then they put you in a car and drive you a couple hours out into the middle of the desert and uh yeah that you're so far from civilization um that you know you're not going to see anybody but they make you put your head down i think i had to wear a blindfold um so we wouldn't see where we were going and uh
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, you get there and basically the program I was in, there was four phases to it. And the first phase, it was some dumb shit. It was like earth phase, fire phase, stuff like that. The first phase, you're not allowed to talk to anybody. So you're just solo until you write your life story and then read it to the group. From there, you just go. You have to build your own shelter.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
I think the youngest kid in my group was 13.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
I think it was at the time a terrible experience. I hated every minute of it, and usually with those programs, uh, you get sent to another one after you go to the initial one. So you kind of bounce around between programs. Um, luckily I turned 18. So I was released, um,
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
But honestly, if I could do that program willingly now and not with that company, just with some friends or something, just go out into the woods for a couple months, it'd be great.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, that's accurate. These programs are super unregulated. So there's very little oversight. They had like a quote unquote therapist that would come every week who was unlicensed. Most of these companies have either been shut down. The company that ran the one I went to
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
rebranded with a different name after a bunch of allegations great move great great mega church move yeah just like carry on different name no one will know yeah it's it's crazy i've met a lot of people since i got out that were put through this similar situation um and everybody's got a similar story i've met people that had the same transporters that i had um Yeah, it's a very strange industry.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, so there's plenty of them still running.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
This is so crazy to me that this happens. Yeah, it's pretty bizarre. They're very unregulated. I know that Paris Hilton has actually been a very vocal advocate.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Yeah, there's been a few documentaries now. I can't remember the names. I know there's one on Netflix.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
No, not at all. Initially, it was a huge falling out point. I haven't lived with them since I went. So we're great now. We have a great relationship. And I think... It took me putting myself in their shoes and kind of understanding that they actually thought that I was going to die or something bad was going to happen.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Obviously, the methodology was not a deal that they went with, but I can kind of see past that now, even though it was a pretty horrible experience.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
So it was smoking weed, drinking. Oh, weed smoking. The worst. Terrible. No, I think my parents explained it as more behavioral. So like... They had some pretty strict rules. I didn't always listen to them. I had a job, so I had my own money. So I would buy things that I wasn't supposed to buy, like a hearse. They told me explicitly, don't buy a hearse. I bought a hearse.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Oh, what a baller thing to buy. Respect.
Flightless Bird
Flights of Fancy: Cheese, Kony 2012, Hot Air Balloons, Troubled Teens, Ice Machines
Do you still have a hearse or did you sell it? Oh, man, I wish. I paid $600 for it. And since I couldn't have it at my parents' house, I'd park it around town in front of other people's houses. And it ended up getting towed. And then it cost more to get it out of the impound than I paid for it.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about lavender marriages, skincare inventions, and St. Anthony
Wir machen sauber, damit du mehr Zeit hast. Mehr Zeit für deinen besten Freund. Chris, what are you up to on Venmo? You want me to check? Yeah, let's see what your latest emojis were.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about lavender marriages, skincare inventions, and St. Anthony
Like they make you sit up.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about boob jobs, body scans, and stoner energy
It means stimulate or excite, especially in a sexual way. Yeah.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about boob jobs, body scans, and stoner energy
I don't know. I hadn't picked one yet. I don't know if I had that privilege yet.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about boob jobs, body scans, and stoner energy
It's not a real word, first of all.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about boob jobs, body scans, and stoner energy
Urban dictionary says a combination of the words strife and trifle. Strife meaning difficulty. Trifle meaning not really very important. Maybe not strifling.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about malls, fingering, and accessories
I have a watch and then in the summertime I'll throw one bracelet on sometimes.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about malls, fingering, and accessories
It's bracelet time, dude. We're just loose.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about malls, fingering, and accessories
I don't know. It just doesn't feel right.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about nicknames, quadzilla, and the zeitgeist
Ja, ich bin so, na gut, ich habe gewonnen.
Giggly Squad
Giggling about nicknames, quadzilla, and the zeitgeist
Yeah, the stars are Naomi Watts and Laura Haring.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I think the application is that you just, they highlight how cheap it could all be. And obviously EC2 is not cheap in terms of compute.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. But I think at this point, the war has gotten so large that they're, like, recruiting everyone they can. So they're, like... I got you. Because now I do see people say, like... Just get a server on Hetzner or AWS or whatever. I see that get included.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
no yeah but that's what i'm saying i just feel like this group doesn't ship anything because so someone asked me the other day uh i was talking no and that joke post i made where i was like because i just want to flip sides now because everyone is on the anti-vercel side which is like mostly a joke but a part of me is like so tuned to just do the opposite that i'm just like maybe i should be pro-vercel
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
uh someone replied being like hey what's your recommendation for i'm if i'm building something that is not going to go viral like how would you think about whether i use a vps or serverless or something right and i replied being like i just don't work on anything that i don't think will go viral like what's the point yeah why work on something that yeah yeah so i'm like i i
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
That like, I don't know what perspective you have at all for that kind of thing. So like, I don't know what it says to do, but they pressed me on it. And I was like, here's actually what it comes down to.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Like whenever this stuff comes up, people like design and architecture from scratch, they're like, you should buy a BPS and then spin this up and do it as though this is like the only thing you're ever going to work on. Yeah. I could do all that. I know how to do all that. I've done all that in the past.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
But I don't want one thing I'm working on to look radically different than another thing I'm working on just because it was smaller. At this point, I just pick a capable platform that works whether I'm making something really simple or making something really complicated. That way, all my apps look similar and work in the same way because...
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
especially when you're working on a lot of things, the context switching of technologies is sucks. And I think people can feel this when like they maybe tried out like solid on some project and then all our projects don't react and then switching between two sucks. And now that also on the infrastructure layer.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
So for me, like, yeah, I don't, I don't really consider those other options because I do have big things that I'm managing that do need AWS. So everything else might as well be there.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
And a bunch of other stuff comes up. It's like, OK, now it's in production. I guess because the server I do need to monitor stuff and have to go set up Datadog and have to do all these things. I'm just I've done all this stuff in the past. I just don't want to do that again. So that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know if these people are actually building anything.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Like, see how my answer was very scoped to other stuff I'm doing in like my life and stuff. I can't like, I can't speak without that context. And a lot of these people make these recommendations without that stuff. So I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I don't think they're actually building anything. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Uh, I mean, there are actually, no, to be fair, there are companies, there are products I use that I know.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I don't use cal.com, but I use a, I use typefully.com.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
which is like uh oh that's a twitter thing yeah i just use it for analytics because they have like the best looking analytics page for that you don't you don't use it to write your your thread boy threads and i did see them in this conversation arguing why they use whatever but just like i just don't i don't know i just really don't care and i think what's been really freeing for me i know if i says already uh just the shift that sst's taken
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I feel so not pinned to any kind of way of building. Yeah. So even more so, I like don't care at all. Cause like, I'm not biased anymore about wanting people to build a certain way. Cause it lines up with SD primitives. SD primitives now cover everything. So yeah. Yeah, I'm just like, whatever. Just tell me what you want to do and I'll do it. I have no opinion on whether it sucks or not.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah, for the next thing, let's just rent everything.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I've had this thought before, and I think I can maybe fake it when I... Oh, there you go. I don't know. I think it's to pay attention. Beacon has a really great voice, too. Oh, he does. When he does that, like, voice... Yeah. Like, newscaster voice or whatever.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
That's going to drive me crazy. I can't think of the name of it. Here's the other thing that we also found. This is after you left. You know how whenever any kind of drama happens and it gets deleted, someone's always posting screenshots of it? Yeah, yeah. He's a guy that's just always taking a screenshot right away. He's the guy that takes the screenshot. He's an archivist.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
He's got just screenshots of everything.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
He's a person that just has everything saved. Any drama you can query him about, he'll produce the artifacts for you.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. He just, I think he just physically lives on the internet. That's what it feels like.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Because it dresses the internet. There was some tech stuff that happened this week. So it was refreshing my memory on Hacker News stuff. instant db which has been like announced for a while and like kind of in being worked on i think it's like officially public now instant what'd you call it instant db.com it's another entrance in the local first category okay uh and is it is it good
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I feel like you're good. I haven't been able to dig into it too much. I think my initial look at it, it looks very similar to Replicash plus the Replicash backend that they're now deprecating. Okay. So yeah, it's kind of like a... I think I still put... It's funny how crazy influential Firebase is.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I realize there's so many companies where I describe them as, oh, they're trying to be like a Firebase. But this can mean so many different things. So this is like a Firebase in that...
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
it is a client-side library that can like talk to a back end that you don't need to build um but they went really hard on all the local first stuff so being able to like sync all data locally uh create queries that are live updated like all of those things but just like taking a step back it's just it's pretty wild to see how much more attention this space
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
is getting like there's more and more entrance like these are like legit efforts they're not like one-off little things uh like the people behind this have worked pretty hard on all of this and it seems pretty polished and pretty deeply integrated with uh the things i mean they're obviously focused on react yeah but then zero is like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. And I guess when we rent the person to do it, it's not like we're renting the equipment separately. So it's probably pretty cheap overall.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
a new way of doing all this i really want to understand better what zero is yeah so so i think the replicash team have experimented with a few different extremes and they're kind of like trying different approaches on this so first was a client-side only library so this is just something that exists on the front end you implement a back-end endpoint that it can sync with and that's what i'm using currently with all my projects
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
and they went to the extreme of okay obviously setting up that back at endpoint yourself is complicated so let's put a full backend as a service thing that like fully owns all of your data and you can just plug any replicash front end into it and that was called uh reflect okay they ultimately decide not to continue with that and they're like sunsetting it at some point
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Now they're trying a different angle, which is kind of an in-between of the two. They give you basically a container that can sit in front of your database and serve a Replicash application, a Replicash front-end, but you still have your own back-end, like a very normal-looking back-end that can serve other things like...
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
you know just it's like for like a more like realistic app that's not just replicash yeah like you own your database you own yeah all of that does it work with any database or yeah what does it work with it will but right now it's the first version is going to be postgres specific but the underlying architecture is pretty simple like the only database specific part is the replication layer between the database and their server so that they'll implement that for every uh
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
database they want to support and that's what zero is that's we're talking about zero okay yeah what's cool about that is because so i built our endpoint thing for boomy for sst for uh for radiance i can spend like a year on that if i wanted just to make that endpoint better faster like more features etc but they're basically doing that uh so it allows for so many cool things where you can just like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
drop components on a page and it knows what queries that component needs and if you're running this through ssr it'll actually fetch it all uh server-side rendered so zero includes front-end components is that what you're saying it includes integration or it's planned to include like integrations with front-end frameworks right so if you you basically can um and it's if you've ever looked at graphql relay it's kind of similar yeah yeah if you like batches up the queries and
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yep, exactly. So if you have a component like user component, you can say like what data you need from the your data store to fill this user component. Then on there's an SSR hook. So when it's SSRing, it'll resolve all of those from like this replicash layer. So it'll actually get SSRed. But what's on the front end, this data starts getting synced locally and saved.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
If there are components you have not visited for a while, they start expiring out of the cache.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
so if it's like save the data for a component for your user profile because i looked at it yep and i haven't looked at it again in a week it'll like rotate out and that's a historically that's been like really manual to configure rules on yeah yeah how long to keep data how to like move this slide this window around um so they've just built a way to do this all completely automatically so it'll be pretty nice pretty cool and they just sent me like their reference architecture on how
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. We're, we're, we're winning professional basketball players.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
uh you would deploy this into your aws account or wherever it is like a little complicated there's like simple versions of it there's more complicated versions of it but it's not bad like self-hosting this is like not going to be too hard yeah i wonder like if it's a container is it pretty like does it match with sst's like yep cluster thing yeah but we're actually going to build a component for it oh nice so just drop into an sst app that's so cool
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
So, but anyway, the thing that the reason I brought this up in the first place is instant DB thing. Uh, this is the first time in my career where I can finally check the box if I was early to something.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I feel like that's not true. No, I think it's true. I think to like pass a threshold of being like, it's funny cause sort of, if I was really early on it, I would have built it. So I wasn't that early, but I would say this is the earliest I've ever been to something. Cause I've seen, um,
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I remember talking about this like years ago when like SSR was a thing I was talking about and nobody was like, nobody knew what I was talking about. And now I see tweets every week where someone's like, wait, I tried this local first thing. Like, Whoa, how is this not like the future of everything? Um, like people we know too.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
So I'm like, Oh yeah, I finally feel like I've like witnessed that shift and it feels good. Yeah. Yeah. The next, next goal is to be early enough where, you know, you like invent the thing. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Must be like five years now. Five years? Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I just like this idea that will like accept the challenge for any sport from anyone.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. It's like out of scope for them. Yeah, exactly.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
That thing that you guys went through is something that I feel like shows up a lot where early on in a project, you're like, oh. the shape of this project is pretty simple. And because it's simple, we can adopt this constraint that would like really simplify things for us across the board. And then all the things you hope to never need, you like eventually slowly need.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah, whatever sport you guys want to play us in, we're down to try it.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
And this is similar to that, like the VPS conversation where it's like,
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
like if you have any amount of experience you've just gone through that thing over and over where you just don't want to start from the simplest thing yeah and just like go through that pain of like rewriting over and over um and i think we see like a lot of where how st's positioned is like specifically around this yeah we have simplified components
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
But we know that you're eventually going to break out of those and need weird configuration. You need more control. And you design specifically around, like our whole framework is designed around the idea of being able to do that. Whereas a lot of these SaaS services are designed around the bet that you'll never need to do that.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Because with a SaaS service, the moment you need to break through to that stuff, the product becomes extremely ugly. It just really breaks down and kind of defeats the purpose of using it in the first place. But yeah, everyone eventually just always needs it. It just always happens.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah, I think this falls in the category of something that's very confusing for me, which is, yes, I agree with everything there, but it also sounds a lot like what you always hear, which is the kids these days don't even know how to do X.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
yeah it's true and and you remember being a kid and you remember like quote unquote kid and you remember like the grown-ups saying stuff like that and you know it may be a lot of it turned out to not matter so i think i let that like kind of check myself to some degree but i also see this other thing where people like see a pattern and they apply it like way too aggressively like yeah this does look like that but it's also different
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
well i think the thing that i think if i have to like draw a differentiation a lot of that took the simplification that happened in our era allowed for a lot more to be done like a lot more software to be written because like it didn't really give up a lot of capabilities right like yeah if you think about something like garbage collected languages like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
that allowed for all sorts of things to be built where garbage collection was fine. Whereas with this modern stuff, it feels more like they've defined a very, very narrow kind of application and they've hyper-optimized for it. And I feel like I can't see like, here's like why 10x or 100x amount of software will be written because of these tools. And maybe it's obvious ahead of time, but...
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I think looking back, that's a difference. Like that's why like the quote unquote old timers were wrong because these tools helped a lot more software be built. Yep. Yep. I don't know if that'll happen with this generation of stuff. It feels like you'd actually hear it. Here's what it feels like.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
won't have that one again probably yeah it was funny because we had a uh so we used transistor for all our podcast stuff and yeah and uh jack was there that's the name right justin you're close sorry justin justin jackson yeah yeah so the jack yeah justin was there uh he scored a point on our team which was great yep yeah so it's just funny to see everyone in these situations that they a lot of them were like i haven't played basketball in in 20 years yeah
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I think the difference between C and a garbage fit language is like a 10 X improvement or like a hundred X improvements, like a massive, massive improvement. Yeah. Whereas this generation of stuff is positioned the same way, but I feel like it's like, 50% better. It's like maybe two times better.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, it doesn't feel... It's like a little bit better, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
We'll see who ends up being right on all this, but from where I'm sitting, I feel like...
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
this world doesn't understand what like venture scale is at all i've been talking about this a bunch of the past yeah i've seen it on twitter you've been it's like people will build something that is a little bit better and they'll think that this is a venture scale thing and it'll also be very non-contrarian it'll be following like the trend that everyone else is doing where i'm like i'm
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
one as an investor like you know that all your returns are going to come from a single company that like goes huge and no company ever does that by like following the trend or making something incrementally better like it's so binary if you're just building a nice business for yourself like that's fine but these are all these companies are in the venture scale category i'm just like what is everyone doing like like we've all read the same books we've all i mean jay pointed out this this out the other day he's like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
yeah we know power law exists within companies like a few companies end up really winning but it exists inside investors also like only a few vcs really get it only a few vcs really actually win um so that's probably what we're seeing like as weird as it is like i don't think a lot of these pcs understand this i'm like why are you betting on these like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
incrementally better products like what where's like the wild contrarian bets like it's just and that's that to me feel it feels weird like this is like the industry that's supposed to talk about that a lot or the industry that where there's like so much reading material about thinking that way yeah but everyone just like oh yeah this seems like you know the next incremental step and incremental steps tend to work it's not like they're like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
oh, this is going to be a total bust. They tend to at least work a little. And we're just down for that. They're not like, no, we got to actually do something that's crazy different.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
There's a trend of... databases then and now we're gonna like join that it's just like everyone just everyone still thinks in terms of trends like there's and i said this thing the other day too where people talk about trends like it's the weather or like like there's like wind blowing and they're like oh like the wind is blowing we gotta like put up our sail yeah and they like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
see trends that way that's not what is a trend is a trend is someone like dragging the world into like a new thing like you you're not there to capture the trend you're there to like make the trend and push it um but vc is talking entirely in terms of trends because they're never the ones making the trend yeah so i can see how that affects founders oh it's like the dev tools wave i mean just how much money was flowing into dev tools there's always some hot sector in vc world
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
The thing I'm pointing out, though, is this way of thinking. I get why VCs see it from this way because that's the only thing they can latch on to. But I think it's infecting the founders, too, who should try to resist that. Like... I keep I always think back to when the clerk CEO responded to you because you were like, oh, why? Like, can you make your pitch to me of why I should use clerk?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
And he responded to you with an essay full of like graphs and charts and Gartner research and trends. And like he and he did this again recently last week where they're like, he's like, here are the shifts in the market. And here's how we're going to be positioned to take advantage. It's just like, yeah. that shit does not go venture scale. Like that approach just does not, it doesn't do it. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. But it's weird to me. I'm like, how is this is, this is the thing we're supposed to be doing. Like we all signed up to be a venture scale company. This is the one thing we have to be doing. Why is no one doing it?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Just put them in a situation they thought they'd never be in.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I mean, I think there's a very simple way to measure this, right? Yeah. I think people have a really tough time separating there. There's two dimensions. There's how likely are they to be right? Yes or no. And the other dimension, which is totally unrelated, which is a part of people have trouble understanding is if they are right, how big is the impact?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
So people tend to couple this into one dimension. So when they see that a company is likely to be right, they just assume it's going to be big impact. When they see a company has low likelihood to be right, they assume it's going to be low impact. But really, what you actually look for are companies that have a low likelihood of being right.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
But if they are right, it's going to be a massive, massive impact. Yeah. So we were talking about replicash earlier, right? Their bet is the whole web is being built incorrectly. And the right way to build it is this totally other architecture. Is that actually going to happen? I don't know. Very low chance that it will.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Oh, really? Wow, that's pretty crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
But if it does, like they're just going to win like way more than anyone else. Right. Yep. And to me, like nothing is worth working on in venture scale if you can't frame it in that way. Like, yeah. So there are not a lot, especially in dev tools and dev tools tend to be like pretty incremental. Yeah. Outside of DevTools, there's obviously a ton. Yeah, I'm sure.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
That is the state of our space. We're quite boring, I think.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Did you see how viral Turk went this past week? Oh, no. Did he? He had a tweet with like 150,000 likes. Oh, my God. It was so impactful that it showed up in Google search trends. What was the tweet? I can't say it out loud because he translated computer science into Norwegian. And it's quite a funny translation.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I can tell he wasn't trying. What it felt like to me was... He was holding back the first half because it maybe would be like a little unsportsmanlike. Or maybe he felt like it would be like unsportsmanlike. But then like the last like four minutes, he scored like every point for them.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I've never had anything go that big. It's pretty wild when people pull that off.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
You're just checked out. When stuff leaves our bubble, it goes crazy.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Oh, speaking of going viral, I think Elon said that they are going to do a refresh of the Twitter algorithm GitHub repo.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
No, so he said that it's like... the word 30,000 was there. I don't have to say 30,000 lines or 30,000 changes. I don't know what it is. And they're going to be, they're going to be updating it. Um, and they said they made like a lot of changes recently because they were talking about how they're trying to make it. So it's fine. They were like, we're trying to make it.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
So banger tweets go big, even if it's not from a big account. And I'm like, that's a funny way to phrase it. But like, yeah, that's actually what you want. You just want the best content to go big, even if, It's from a smaller account, which I see how that's challenging.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
The most customizable algorithm in the world, TikTok. Yeah. Oh, really? Their stuff is so wild. I just, I don't even understand how it's so good. I don't use it at all. But like when I see people describe it or I see people using TikTok, I'm just like, How does it know this well?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
What it feels like to me is it feels like there's so much content being produced that it's almost... It's hard to differentiate the app... knowing what you like and just like generating it for you in real time from like it just finding content because there's so much content being generated constantly. So there's like by accident enough content for you being generated every single day. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
And it's so wild. This is so obvious, but I never clicked for me before. Like I don't use these apps much, but like my Instagram, for example, it shows me a bunch of Doberman videos because I have one. I love Doberman's and that's that's what I'll watch. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
And I had this weird, I realized the other day, I had this weird perception of it where I'm like, Oh, like I'm watching all these videos and I'm like running out of Doberman videos to watch. And like, cause I've seen so many of them already. Yeah. And it didn't click for me that, Oh, but there's like always new videos being made of Doberman's cause there's always more Doberman puppies.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
There's always like, you know, more situations where I'm like, I'm really never going to run out of this or like making more than I can consume. And that was different from the way that my head had understood it before. I was like, there's a fixed amount of videos out there and I'm like slowly consuming them all.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
And eventually I'm not really going to have any, but yeah, it's just weird to understand that.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
You should probably do that. As great as my voice sounds for podcasting.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
We're all just aging. It is kind of random that everyone on the terminal team is base level pretty athletic. It's pretty random, especially for a group of random software engineers.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. I thought it was cool. Cause you know, no one, I don't think anything remotely like this gets done at conferences. So definitely first of its kind. And yeah, Yeah, it'll be cool to see what else we can whip up for the stuff coming up the rest of the year.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Then we have all the Lambo stuff.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I think TJ uploaded it into the Slack, I think. I didn't check because I was flying when he did that. But yeah, we got to get those out. It's a... Yeah. And that also, we have the top, like we've got to keep surprising people, which is, which is hard, but it's really fun.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Not great. I think I'm sick.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
He's a ghostwriter. Yeah. Yeah. I got to get on that.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. And what's also cool is he's so I have a few friends that are in this specific space as well, like that art and tech intersection was really big in like the 2010s.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
No. Sorry. My brain is slow. Okay. Liz's sister was watching Zuko and she had to go home a day early. Ah, gotcha. I had to go home a day early. But I think I was sick the whole time I was there pretty much because as soon as I got to...
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
mid 2010s uh especially in new york they're like giant dedicated companies where all they would do is do one-off crazy like tech installations for different different clients yep he's super into that world and yeah it's obviously way crazier now than it was back then but he's got just so many ideas that we could just take and do for our stuff because uh like
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
you just know stuff that's happened in like other spaces and we can like map that to ours. Yep. Um, so I'm like, just send me all of your ideas. Like I will just build every single one.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
We were talking about how we would definitely take, if they want to pay us, we'll do it. Yeah, let's do it. We had a joke that we would take a sponsorship from them for Terminal to do their conference and we would just send cardboard cutouts.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I love it. Yeah. He's cool. He's great. It's great.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah, so I remember Laracon last year, and it definitely wasn't this noisy. Like, I remember like a few pictures of Aaron floating around. It seemed pretty quick, but this year it seemed like... Yeah, do you think we did, did we do our part here?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Was that a stuff, Scott? Did he get stuffed?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
What else? We met Bash in person. That was the first time for me.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah, I feel the same way. Yeah, so we're trying to plan another one for Terminal in November. Is that secret? Can we say where it is, or we should probably wait? I just don't know. It's just not confirmed yet, so I don't want to say. It's going to be in New York, which... Yeah, Liz keeps pushing me to make that one happen.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I haven't been to California in a while, so I would enjoy that. I would too. Is it because... There's tech stuff going on in California all the time that they don't do conferences there?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
We were talking about how we would definitely take, if they want to pay us, we'll do it. Yeah, let's do it. We had a joke that we would take a sponsorship from them for Terminal to do their conference and we would just send cardboard cutouts.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I mean, it's, it's like a beautiful place, you know?
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
It's like whenever you travel anywhere, you just get some vegan.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. There's a lot of vegan pastries in my neighborhood, too. Yeah.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. You guys won't stay there, but... Yeah, no.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Which, you know, is not going to have a lot of traffic this time because I know it was crazy during React Miami.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
It must have been the conference because I literally... Like, I live here and I consider myself close to the beach over there. Like, it's usually like a 50-minute drive.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Whatever the hell that is. This Emerge Americas conference just blows my mind. It really does. It's so big. And then you see everyone there. And you're like, who are these people? Yeah, they're all in suits. And Tom Brady somehow spoke there. They're big enough to get Tom Brady to speak there. But like... And it's like in Miami of all places. I just don't get it at all. I don't get it.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah, I was confused by that. But I think I definitely am sick because I... There's like a taste I get in my mouth in the morning when I'm sick and I taste it. So, yeah. Yep. So that sucks.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I mean, like, going after... It was just Yasin and Theo fighting. Was it just Yasin and Theo? I thought there were other people. WebDevCody also was in there.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
That's definitely a good example of a conversation where I genuinely just felt like I don't... I actually just don't want to even get involved in this at all. Yeah, I really don't like that one. It's like two stupid streams talking to each other.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
Yeah. Like I've never used any of your products.
How About Tomorrow?
The Kids These Days Don't Know How To Do It Right 👴
I mean, I'm sure there are. It's just that Like for the volume of people talking about it, I would expect a proportionate volume of products and there is not.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
There's no place to escape to. This is the last podcast. On the left.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Why do you need kerosene if you got gasoline?
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
He's crazy.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Yeah.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Fill me.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Why did they put him at ease? What did he do?
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
You crazy people.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Killing people on meth?
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Wild.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
I want intestines.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Yeah.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
That's what I'm trying to tell you. That's all I wanted to tell you guys.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
And your untimely corpse will have to see my bushels.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
She's not wrong. Yeah, no, there's plenty of them.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
They aged out. Yeah, I think they, uh, they grew up. Yeah, I think so.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Too much to say, too much to say.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
2013.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
How do they have all this staff? Do they even have teeth?
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Laptop.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
I'm very Dutch.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Fly from your grave.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Waiters make good cash. Waiters make great cash.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Look at him. He's scared stupid. Scared stupid.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
After he saved the kids.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
She looks horrible. I know.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
At least she used to give the bullets out for extra credit.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
They're not even hot.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
You can tell by his tears. It's so thick. My tears are so big. How do I make my sorrow thinner?
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Yeah.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 597: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part IV - The Werewolf of Wall Street
Why don't they just make up a name? I know.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
And me, Mr. Ding Dongs. Oh, yeah, Jerry Ding Dongs. That even appears to Christ.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
Constantinople. Constantinople. Constantinople. Constantinople. Constantinople.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
I'm not going to work very hard. Look at my hands. Very soft, right? I sweat. It's hard for me. I don't like being outside. I like being inside. I need air conditioning. I need a nice little bench. I need a bunch of grapes. You know what I mean? You don't really want me to be in there.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
Huh? You see what I'm doing?
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
I don't think I can hire Reprobus. Ha ha ha! But according to your resume, it seems to be going very well. I also hate the stupid cross thing that they do. It doesn't do anything.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
To be honest, I'm looking at your CV here. The first thing it says to me is that this guy loves to long distance peg.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
Why would he tell him? Because he's a fucking saint.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
Oh, I can't come unless I'm thinking of me mother.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
Daddy's got a big old dick. He fucked mommy until she forgot that he existed.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
I'll do whatever I want. I'll turn you fucking, all your bullshit. You got a dog, I'm going to turn it into rats. I can do whatever I want. I don't even know how you can put me in jail.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
Yeah, fucking daddy got blown up.
Last Podcast On The Left
Episode 598: The Horrible Lives and Deaths of the Saints - The OGs
Oh, yes, this little piggy went straight down my throat. I love the New York Jets.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
This is my lawyer. Right. But I don't have any out on this because I don't have a lawyer. My mother just got diagnosed with cancer the day after I got arrested. And I'm trying to keep You know, like not involve her as much, even though she's calling, I'm speaking to her every day. I'm crying to her, but, and she's calling them, but that's kind of how it was. So I sold my mother on the idea.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
All right, just let them handle it type of thing. You know, what are we going to do if they don't, you know? So my father-in-law calls me up one day. And he starts yelling and screaming at me. So supposedly, my ex-wife hacks into my social media and sees things that she shouldn't have. Right? Okay. And now we're getting divorced. Right. Okay. And we're not speaking anymore.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Me and my wife are not speaking anymore. My father-in-law tells me this. We're not speaking anymore. And... So now I'm talking to my father-in-law who hates me, right? That's my, that's the only way I could talk to my lawyer, right? So my father-in-law hates me. I don't know the language. He's my only link to this, but he made a promise to my mother that he would stay, he will stay involved.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
He was doing me a favor and staying involved to make sure I get home. So things start getting really tense really quick, right? My phone gets stolen or stolen and held for ransom. And every day it's just another thing with the inmates, with my father-in-law. And I am just hyper, hyper anxious at all times at this point. You know, I don't know what to do.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My lawyer comes, visits me, and now I have Roy. So now I have Roy who speaks English and Spanish, so at least I have somebody kind of on my side that could kind of translate.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I go up to my lawyer when he comes to visit me, finally, and I say, my father-in-law is telling me I can't speak to you, and I can't have any direct communication with you, and that makes me feel really uncomfortable because me and my soon-to-be ex are going through a divorce. You know, so could we please figure that out? Don't worry about it. Message me directly. We're good. Okay.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I messaged him directly. And who do I get messages from? But my father-in-law, well, you know, Johnny called his cousin, his niece, and they were on the phone. And he said that you were messaging him directly and you can't do that. So I got to the end of my rope. I'm at the end of my rope now and I don't know what to do, so we have to figure this all out.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I start calling all the lawyers and the guard, remember the guard I told you about that was really nice to me in the first jail? He told me about this one lawyer, Santana, that fixes these problems. So I call, I message Santana on WhatsApp through translating. you know, through translation. And Santana says... that, now I sent the first lawyer already at this point, I sent him 30 grand.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My mother borrowed money, I had a little bit of money that my wife allowed me to take, you know, and sends him 30 grand. Now, I don't know, to this day, I don't know if my father-in-law got a piece of that. I don't know how much got to the lawyer. I don't know anything. But that lawyer also was very politically motivated, I come to find out. And that's why he went on the news and that whole thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I'm talking to this guy, Santana, over the next week, and he's doing his due diligence. And he said, Mike, 50 grand, I'll get you out. I'll get you out on your next court appearance. What the fuck am I getting 50 grand? I have no money. My ex-father, my ex-wife isn't going to give me anything. My mother doesn't have any money. She's dealing with cancer. What am I going to do?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I have my phone. So I start calling people to see if I could raise money. I would think the vendors that had stuff in the pallet, they should contribute, right? Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right. But they're not picking up my calls.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
They're not answering my... And these are people that I did business with for 10 years. Because they're thinking they're going to get in trouble. Not only are they thinking that they're going to get in trouble, but they're like, I have my own life. This guy's in jail. Fuck him. But some of these people are at my wedding. I traveled the world with these people for 10 years.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
This was my family, my extended family. We went to each other's houses and we hung out and we did the whole thing together. So I would think that... Each one at bare minimum would say, here's five grand, get the fuck out. But they weren't picking up my calls. So my mother had to kind of beg and borrow from people that she knew. And
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
One day, my father-in-law calls me up and starts a big argument with me. And at this point, I have Santana on deck. He's ready to go. And something just snaps in my head. And I start fighting back with my father-in-law. Because at this point, I'm just getting, I'm a punching bag for him because I'm scared. But now I have a backup. So let me fight back a little bit. Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I fight back and I basically said, look, I don't want to have anything to do with you. Leave me alone. I'll leave you alone. Let's whatever. It's fine. You don't want to talk to me. I don't want to talk to you. I'm good. You know? So I said, I'm getting rid of Johnny because this is not working. Johnny's first lawyer. Yeah. So. For some miracle of God, we get the 50 grand to send to Santana.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My mother borrows, she asks friends, and she asks all these different people, and we've raised the 50 grand for Santana. Now, getting Santana money is also a problem because... I don't know if you have a wire to DR, but when you wire to DR, it's not instant like now. It's not overnight. It's two weeks.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So we're sending Western Unions to this guy, Santana, but you can't send $50,000 in a Western Union, so you have to have 30 people send $1,000 each. So my mother's trying to find different people to send wires. It's insane what's happening. So we finally get Santana's money. Now, my mother... also made a trip to DR and the, you know, the whole thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So my court dates coming up and I'm like, this is awesome. I'm about to go home. You know, it's been three months, two, three, two, two months and change. I'm going home, you know? So I get to court. And now when you go to court from Ohio, you get a bus, right? But, In America, that bus that transports you is told that they have to be on... It's taken extra measures.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I'm assuming, again, I've never been in jail in America. It's taken extra measures that you're on time and you're ready for court. Well, it's not like that in DR. You know, it's... Whenever the bus gets there, it gets there. And if you're late for court, you have to postpone. You know, and that's just what it is. Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay. So...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
No, it's a transport. But again, the Sands of Domingo is two hours away by bus. There's a lot of traffic and sometimes it runs late. You know, that's what it is. So in the meantime, the embassy comes to see me while I'm waiting for this first court date.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
The embassy comes to see me and I see the embassy and I'm so relieved to see the embassy because they speak English and I see an American, an American who works for the embassy and they kind of bring this intermediary and my intermediary was this guy named Jose. And he spoke English, but he was Dominican. I think he was dual citizen.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And they basically explained, I'm crying to this guy, and I'm telling him, please help me. This is the story. It's very apparent. I wasn't trafficking drugs. I was holding an event. I've done these before. Please help me. We can't do anything.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
We can't do a thing. They bring me this little hotel soaps, and they bring me the other one. I said, take your soap and shove it up your ass, man. I can buy my own soap. I need your help. So I find out that the embassy can't do anything, and now I'm waiting for this guy Santana to pay somebody to get me out. So we get to the court. Santana's already gone.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My bus is two hours late to court, and my next court date was postponed for, I want to say... I want to say right in mid-November. So now it's two months, so it's September, right, from when I got arrested. And now I'm here another three months, and I am beside myself. Like, I'm beside myself. I'm hysterical. I don't know what to do.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And my lawyer's not there, so I don't even know if somebody just stole $50,000 from me. Right. So I call my lawyer when I get back to my cell, and he tells me, I didn't want that judge anyway, so I'm happy it was postponed. We made sure it was postponed. Sounds good. Sure.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right. Couldn't you get me bail? You know? So now I'm stuck for another two months. So... My mother makes arrangements to come. Now, I'm an only child. My mother's fighting cancer, but my mother can't come to DR for an extended period of time until she finishes her chemo, right? So she starts making plans, you know, when am I going to finish chemo and this, that, and the other. So...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I'm waiting, and in the interim, my mother contacts my father, who I haven't spoken to in years and years and years, and tells him the situation. So now we're just waiting. I'm starting to talk to my father again after years, and we're waiting. Two days before... So Santana tells me, we have the deal. Everything's set. Next court date, you're going home. I paid the money.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Everybody has their money. The district attorney has his money. The judge has her money. And you're going home. Very simple. The case is going to be dismissed. Two days before I go to prison... I get a call that Santana dies.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Yeah. He drops dead. So I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do. Do I still have the deal? Right. Do I still have the deal and I just got to go through the motions of going to court with somebody? Or do I not have the deal? Is my 50 grand gone? I had to beg and borrow to get the 50 grand. What am I going to do? So we get the... We go to court and now we have to postpone it.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But we, you would think that you postpone it for two weeks tops. I get into the lawyer. We could go, go through the motions and then I go home. Right. So they don't postpone it for two weeks. They postponed it for three months. Now I'm in jail for Christmas. Right. You know, and you know, I am, I'm literally screaming at the judge at this point in jail for,
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I'm screaming at the judge in court saying, I don't want to be here for Chris. I did nothing wrong. I signed for a package that wasn't even mine, and I want to go home. Could we please move it closer? Those are the dates. So now I have to go to court January 15th. So, again, we don't have any idea who's going to be my next lawyer or where the money's going to come from.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But my mother starts talking to my father, and he runs a successful business, and he says, I'll free up 50 grand for you to get a lawyer. And we start interviewing lawyers. Now, during this time, my mother got special permission from the jail to come to the jail and visit me every day.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
She comes, she books a trip for six weeks to spend Christmas and New Year's Thanksgiving with me, you know, just so I have something. And now we have to find another lawyer. So it's good that she's there. So she hires – so her friend's married to a Dominican who has a cousin in Santo Domingo who's driving her around. She hires a translator.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So she's paying money, all this money to people that she can't afford, number one, but she has to do it because she has to get me a lawyer and she has to come – she's not going to drive in DR, you know. So she has a driver and she's getting me a lawyer and we're interviewing lawyers and we're doing the whole thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And while this is happening, it was like the fourth or fifth day that she was there. I go upstairs and visit her. And I see these.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
guards and they're all dressed in black and you could see their maximum security guards and i've seen them before they did maximum security they were the people in charge of maximum security and i didn't pay any mind to it because they were always there anyway and i say hello to them and they say who what's your name i said my name and he goes come with us and they cuffed me What the fuck?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
What did I do? I said, I'm going to see my mother. So they cuff me. And while this is all happening, my mother and I are writing letters to everybody. We're trying to contact congressmen and people in politics and whoever we could contact, the news, whoever we could contact to shed some light on this, to help me get out, we're trying to contact them.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So they bring me to my cell, and there are six of them with me, and they're fully blacked out, and they mean business. These guys mean business. These aren't like a regular guard. These guys are mean business. So they're tearing apart my cell. They're tearing apart my cell. And they're at, where's the phone? Where's the phone? Where's the phone? So I knew that I always had to bring my phone.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I had to hide my phone when I wasn't in my cell because, you know, just in case they said, Leo, my phone had to be away and I had to leave it with somebody I trust. So I established a really good relationship with one of the drug dealers on the next floor up from me. So I brought it to him. Right. So my phone was in my room, so it was safe. Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So they're tearing apart my room, and they're asking me for the phone, but they can't find the phone. I said, I don't have a phone. There's no phone here. So they don't know what to do, and they bring me to the hole, but they don't put me in the hole. They put me in observation, the room that you're supposed to go to when you first get to the jail. Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Because it's a little more mellow than the hole. So I find out that I'm there because one of the letters, you know Chuck Schumer? Yeah. I hear that one of the letters I wrote, I wrote to Chuck Schumer or his office. And you would think that an American writing a letter from
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
prison that doesn't have a record or anything you would think they would kind of keep that confidential but supposedly that information got out to the prison and the prison knew I had a phone because of because the email was sent to Chuck Schumer's office from my phone okay so they knew there was a phone but they didn't know where it was because it wasn't my room so now I'm in observation and
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And I don't have a lawyer, and now they have one phone floating around there, but it's like an old Nokia, you know, that was the prison phone that we could kind of share. So I could make two phone calls a day. You know, that's what I got. Or three phone calls a day. They weren't long phone calls. It wasn't my phone. So...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I'm calling my kids once and I'm calling my mother and father twice because we have to figure out what's going on with my lawyer. So we get a couple lawyers to come to the jail, and there were these two lawyers that I was boiling it down to. One was this Fifth Avenue type of lawyer who had an in-house, one of the partners spoke English, one of their clients were Pfizer.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
They were a Fifth Avenue lawyer, very expensive, but it seemed like they knew what they were doing. And then there was this other lawyer who was younger, and he brought his friend who spoke English, who was an English teacher, But he was younger, but he understood my case. Right. He understood that it wasn't even real weed, number one. It was like hemp. It was legal in my country.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
It went through customs. It was nothing. It was nothing. It was insignificant. Right. So he understood that. So I liked him, but I knew he had the experience. Right. my mother and father take it upon themselves to hire the Fifth Avenue lawyer because that's where they think I'm going to get the better defense.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But I wasn't crazy about the Fifth Avenue lawyer because every time I would message him, it kind of felt like I was bothering him. And I was nervous, so I wanted to communicate with my lawyer. And meanwhile, the other lawyer, the younger guy, he would talk to me all day. Are you okay? Could I bring you anything? You know, like that type of thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But the other lawyer was like very reasonable in price. So I was like, let me continue to talk to him. If he wants a little money, I'll even get it for him. You know? So now I'm going through the motions with this fifth Avenue lawyer, but I get introduced to this lady. So now I'm three lawyers in four lawyers. If you count the guy, the younger guy, um,
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I get introduced to this lady through an inmate that says she has the right connections, you know? And she tells me that for 10 or 12 grand, I can get out, you know, I can get out on my next appearance, but she doesn't want to be, she doesn't want to argue my case. She wants to be in court. So the judge sees her, but she doesn't want to argue my case. So I'm thinking about this too, right?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Now, during this time, one of the letters that we wrote, that my father wrote, I actually wrote it. I find an email address for the president of Dominican Republic. And I write an email and I tell my father, send this email so it doesn't come from me. So he sends it and I'm out of, my lawyer pulls strings and gets me out of the punishment area, gets me out of observation. I was there for six days.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And somebody, they tell me that I have a visitor. My mother already went back. They tell me I have a visitor. I said, who the hell is visiting me on a Sunday? It's not the embassy. They don't come on Sunday. So I go upstairs, and I see these two guys. They introduced themselves to me as colonels. They're colonels that are right under the president of the Dominican Republic.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
They have my entire file. But they don't speak English. but they have a phone so i'm using guru translate so they tell me they i tell them the rest of the story and they say we're gonna see if we could help you thank god you know thank god you know maybe you could help me you know you understand what i'm going through And they say for $50,000.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
No, they just say they're going to try to see what they can do. And they leave. I am never to hear from these people again. Never. Now, I hear a couple different whispers about why that happened also, but I never hear from these people again. He's up for re-election. So I don't know if he's doing anything or not doing anything, but I'm getting nervous because I haven't heard from him.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And I had my mother write an email to him and there was no correspondence. So now this lady tells my mother for 12 grand or whatever it is, she's getting me out of prison. So I said, we have 20,000 left in the fund because we gave the Fifth Avenue lawyer 30, and we had 50, and now we have an extra some money. So let's send this lady $10,000 so she can get me out. Right? Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So we send this lady $10,000, and... She tells me that she meets with the people she has to meet with and it's not $10,000. It's another 30. And my father's frustrated, I'm frustrated, my mother's frustrated. We don't have it on 30. Right. That's not happening. Yeah, and it's a scam anyway. And it's a fucking scam anyway. So we say, take the 10 that you have. You already have it.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And let me know what you can do with that. So she comes back and she says, well, for the 10, we'll get you a deal where you get out of jail. but you have to stay in the country and finish out a year, and then you'll have to sign. You could go back to your country, and you have to come back once a month or once every two months to sign, kind of like a probation type of thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I said, if that's the way it has to be, that's the way it has to be. I mean, you know, that's where we are. So... Meanwhile, the Fifth Avenue lawyer is representing me, and I have the other lawyer kind of on deck. I'm talking to him. We're friends at this point. I think I sent him like a grant, you know, just so he could kind of counsel me almost through this whole thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So we get to court, and the Fifth Avenue lawyer is putting together this whole fucking thing. dog and pony show strategy and tells me that he wants to postpone it another month so he could build his case more. So I'm close to a year now. I mean, like I'm getting up there, you know? And I don't like him to begin with. So I tell him to go fuck himself. And I hire the other lawyer.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My next date, my next court date is not only the date that the lady is supposed to get me the deal, but it's also the date where they determine whether or not I'm going to trial. Right? Okay. So it's a pretrial date. And I'm almost, I'm a year in. I'm a year into this thing. And we go to the court and it's February. And I figure I'm getting out. I'm approaching worst case scenarios. I got a year.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I'm going to get out very soon. And we'll see what happens. So we get to court. And the kid's representing me. And he argues. But I think I have the deal in the bag because I got the lady standing right behind me. And we're good. And the judge says, we're going to trial. But it doesn't set a date for trial because that's not how it works in DR. You have to wait for a date for trial.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I look at the lady, what the fuck happened? They didn't want to do anything because you didn't give them extra money. So now the whole scam's forward. I tell her to go fuck herself and now I got the kid. But do I want the kid representing me at trial? Because now it's getting really, really apparent to me that I'm facing 20 years in prison. That's what I'm facing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I'm charged with narcotics trafficking for a few vape pens. But it's not classified. It's not classified as that. I'm in the same category with people who are shipping cocaine powder from Columbia to DR. That's how I'm classified. So now I got to figure out what the hell is going on. But we find this translator who translated for me at this date. And we became friendly with him.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
He was a really nice guy. He did a lot of government work. And he said, through a relationship of his, he knew this really famous criminal attorney. But I can't afford a really famous criminal attorney because I'm over 150 into this, 180 into this. There's no more money, the well is dry, you know? And my mother, my mother's a very emotional Italian woman, you know?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My mother calls up the guy and gets on a phone call with him. And his daughter speaks English, so she's translating. And cries to him and said, and he says, I'll take the case pro bono. Just give me like a grand or two grand to get all the shit. You know, like everything I need to do, just give me two grand. I'll walk you through the whole case. I'll figure this out. Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And if you were to Google this guy's name, this guy's on TV. He's representing a very high profile. He does murder cases. This is his wheelhouse. He's the Johnny Cochran of, you know, you see this guy on TV. So I'm like, all right, cool. This guy's nice. He's going to help me get through it. He's going to even work with the young kid. And we're going to be good. So...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
he we start talking all this nonsense and meanwhile this guy I forget how it happened. But this guy comes into the picture. His name was Jose. And he's a real used car salesman, like real used car salesman, scumbag type of guy. And he starts pitching me another back doorway to get out of this whole thing. But his pitch was, it's 30 grand. You will get out.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
You will leave the country immediately, you will have to come back every two months, sign for four years. That's what it is. I met with the judge, here's what it is. The judge is this, he knew the judge's names, he knew the prosecutor's names, he had access, he had more information than normal people would, you know?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I said, now that we got the famous lawyer, yeah, but that's not definite because he's straight. He's a straight arrow. He's going to represent me in court the Johnny Cochran way, but this guy is giving me an out. Let's come up with the 30 grand. Yeah. So at this point, while this is all happening, there's a lot of violence in the jail. My phone's getting stolen.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I'm getting extorted for money on a daily basis. But the one thing that the embassy did, right, was be the embassy. Now, I'll explain that. So the embassy didn't do nothing. They didn't help me in any way. But they... let off the impression to the jail and the guards and the inmates even that I was the American that was not to be touched.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I could be extorted and I could be robbed, but as far as physical violence is concerned, I'm off limits. You know, that's kind of how the whole thing was.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right. Stolen. Right, right. But don't touch the American.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So now... there's all sorts of violent people are getting murdered on a daily on a weekly basis here i'll give you a story one there was one guy and he was in for he was doing 20 so he was he was doing 20 and he had we had these fans because the windows were open 100 fucking degrees there you know right and the only thing you had was really a fan and only some rooms had the fan but
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So he had a fan and he had to get money from his cellmates, whatever it may be, to pay for the fan. And we're not talking about a million dollars. We're talking about 2,000 pesos, which is 30 bucks. So they didn't pay him or whatever it may be. They were jerking him around. And he formulates this plan. Where he's going to kill him. He's going to kill one of these guys. So he takes his machete.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And one night after they closed the gates at 1030... Everybody's in lockdown. They're in like another building, you know, where they sleep, the guards. And he pokes one of his cellmates to death. And then because... Perfectly reasonable. Well, I mean, I would. And then the other cellmate tries to stop it and he pokes him too. You know, they took 25 minutes to get to the cell.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
to get this guy out of the cell with two bodies on his, on his floor. I mean, that's, that's kind of how it works.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
That's a reaction time. But if they hear that there's a phone in the room, they're running there, they're at 30 seconds, you know? So that's kind of what was going on on a semi-weekly basis. And I'm scared shit. Like I knew that I was kind of safe, but same time, I mean, these people, I'm sharing rooms with these people.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right. Exactly.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right. It didn't matter. Right. Right. So now I have. So now I have, you know, in the legal point of now, I have my straight laced Johnny Cochran attorney. Right. Who's helping me. I have the kid who's kind of consoling me and I have this guy, Jose, who just came in the picture. He was telling me for 30 grand, he got the deal and he's showing me proof that he has proof that, that he has a deal.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I contact a few of my friends and I contact this guy and And he was a buyer of mine. So he didn't have anything in the pallet, but he was a buyer of mine. He owns a distro. And he was a really, really great Indian guy and really great person, you know? And I get on the phone with him and I cry to him and I told him what was the deal. And he, my mother talks to him and she cried.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My mother's in Italian. She cries about everything. And she's crying to him, and he was like, I'll help you. So he gives me the $30,000. I'm getting out of jail. We just need to... Yeah, I know. So I'm approaching $200,000 with this. That's just illegal. That's not the $200 that I'm going through every week in the commissary and with buying people drugs and doing the whole thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I'm over $200 into this, plus my mother's expenses of coming and doing the whole thing. So... I get the 30. They tell me that they finally get me a court date for July 1st. So now I'm over a year. June 22nd, I get arrested. July 1st of the next year is my court date. So it's my trial. I'm going to trial. This is going to end.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Now, I'm scared because I'm facing 20 years, and I don't know if this guy's full of shit, but there is a sense of relief, I guess you could call it, because during this whole time I'm living in limbo. I don't know what's going on. I'm facing 20 years. I don't know what's going on. Right. My court date's finally approaching, and we get to trial. Now, in the Dominican Republic, there's no jury.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
There's three judges. So there's one guy and two women, right? And I'm thinking that I got the two women because I'm emotional. My mother's there. She has cancer. I got the emotional part. aspect of this you know and the guy even if it's two against one with the woman i i'm good i'm i'm okay i'm gonna get at least something decent right right So they call, the prosecution calls four witnesses.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
They call two people that arrest me. They call a handler that handled the dog, the drug sniffing dog. And they call someone else, I forget who it was. But all four, all four, oh, they call the guy at the shipping company, the guy who owned the shipping company. All four witnesses testify to my story and basically say he didn't know what was going on. Right. He was completely caught off guard.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
He was hysterical when we arrested him. Even the dog handler said at the airport that intercepted the pallet basically said, you know, we found the drugs. We found the cannabis. But... It was labeled in boxes like it was being sold at a store. He wasn't hiding it. You know, this was not in Ziploc bags.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
You know, this was, you know, this was, you know, obviously being used for a meeting or something like that. So everybody testified to me and even the prosecutor. testify basically makes his closing statements and says look please the court show mercy on him give him whatever minimum it is because he's not a drug trafficker you know like he gets it you know
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Now, did that come from the crooked lawyer, Jose? Did that come from the president? Where did that come from? Nobody knows. Or was it just genuine that they had compassion for the situation? So I didn't know. you know, so they, you know, we all argue and everything's okay.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And it was spread over two days because trials there, they're not like trials here where, you know, it's actually organized trials. There are 20 minutes, the whole thing front to back. That's what it is, you know? So, um, so we, we return after then we were wrapping things up and they go into, uh,
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
chambers and they're talking I'm sitting there with my mother and I'm sitting there with my lawyer and I'm sitting there with the translator and the translator kind of knows the situation because he's represented me a couple times and I'm looking at him like what do you think you know he was like I'm pretty sure it's good but I don't know.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Now, I had to plead guilty because I thought I was getting a deal, right? So I plead guilty, right? I plead guilty. I said, yes, I did this, but unintentionally type of thing. Right. So I don't know if they're going to give me the probation deal. I don't know if they're going to give me 20 years. I don't know. It was the longest 15 minutes of my life that they're in chambers.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So they come out, and the guy starts talking, and he says... I wanted to let you go today, but they don't. The two women? The two women, right. They don't want to let you go. So I was like, oh, fuck. You know, not now.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So he makes this spiel, and they all basically say the same thing, that we understand that you're a businessman and this is your business, and you didn't mean to do it, but you still did something really wrong. That's what they say, right? I was like, and I even got up and said, I understand I did something wrong, but look at it even logically. I say to them, I'm in jail and I see all this.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And I say, if I was in jail, I could buy an ounce of grass for 2,000 pesos, which is about $30. In America, an ounce of grass is... $200. So I would either have to be the stupidest drug trafficker in the world, or I didn't do anything malicious out of malice, you know? So they start talking, they say the same thing and they say, we're not going to give you a deal.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
We're not going to give you a probation deal because you're American. So what we're going to do is we're going to give you 18 months, and then you can leave the country. So now I'm already a year in, so I've... Do you get good time?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I thought there was. That story's coming along. So, so I'm looking at it as my lawyer sitting there and telling me, we'll get you out earlier, but you know, worst case scenario is 18 months. I got five months, five and a half months left. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm not doing 20 years, you know, like, you know, I'm okay.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Now, what I didn't tell you before was I have two kids. I have a 16 year old and a 12 year old. Now, I'm very close to my kids. I share custody with my ex-wife, my first wife, and we're very close. Now, my 16-year-old's very high-strung and very anxious. He's a very anxious kid. So when this whole thing happened... he was so anxious.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
They took him out of school and started doing online school because he didn't know what was going on either. And I'm feeding him, telling him, and I'm very honest with my kids and I'm telling him, well, I got this lawyer in the school. He's putting together deals and he's at this point, but he's a very intelligent kid. And he's like, he's like, number one, Santana is not dead. He's full of shit.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
He's all your buddy. And, and I don't know who to believe at this point. So like, he kind of gathered to himself that he doesn't know when I'm dad's coming home, you know? And my, my 12 year old, uh, is thinks I have a problem with my passport. So I'm stuck in Dominican Republic waiting in a resort.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
As a matter of fact, one of the things that I would always tell my kids, I need to speak to you twice, twice a day. I need to speak to you in the morning when you wake up or around when you wake up and before you go to sleep.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So one day, I'll make you laugh, my son calls me very late in the day. I can't get through it. He calls me very late. My 12-year-old calls me very late in the day. And I said, what's going on with you? Why didn't you call me? He said, Dad, I was a little busy. I said, Scotty, I get really anxious. He doesn't know I'm in jail, but he knows I'm anxious because I want to speak to them.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
He said, Dad, I don't know why you're anxious. I'm safe. I'm with Mom. Why don't you go in the hot tub? Why don't you go in the pool? You know, I'm sitting here. So long story short, where I get 18 months and my friend and my lawyers tell me, we'll get you out soon and we'll get sort of time.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
We'll get, you know, we'll, you know, we'll get, even if you have to stay in the country, at least you won't be in that hell hole. So I'm thinking my max downside is I have to stay in the country for, to finish out the 18 months and then I can go home. That's max downside. Okay.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But upside is I get to go home right away, and even if worst, worst possible case scenario is I have to fill the 18 months, I'm two-thirds there. You know, I'm there. You know, I'm right there. So...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I go back and I'm in kind of a better mood and I told my kids that I would be home in a couple months and I told my ex-wife and I'm kind of in a better mood because after a year I know how to live here or at least survive but I also know there's a date I'm going home. You know? So as time goes on I'm bugging my lawyer and it gets back to me that
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I became friends with this guy in the office who handles all the releases and everything like that. And he's actually going to school to be a lawyer. And he always helped me. And he tells me, Mike, you're not getting out early. By the time you get a court date for early release, you're going to be gone because that's the way the system works. It's fucked up.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So now I'm facing the reality that I'm going to be there for the next five months.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So we go to Santo Domingo, and I get put in this holding, I guess, facility of the DNCD, which is the Drug Enforcement Agency. So again, I don't speak the language, so I'm trying to figure out what exactly is going on with this whole thing. So...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
We go to, the next morning, my wife at the time, my wife at the time has family friends that are Dominican, and they are related to this lawyer in Dominican Republic, so it kind of automatically becomes he's my lawyer now. Right. So the district attorney, the prosecutor who arrested me, tells them to meet him at his office in Santo Domingo.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So they put me in a car, and we all go to the district attorney's office in Santo Domingo.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
so i'm sitting there with my wife at the time and my travel agent and my lawyer i never met before but he's sitting in the next desk with the prosecutor is he like a criminal lawyer is he like a real estate lawyer they told me he was a criminal lawyer all right so i don't i don't know again i don't know at this point and he doesn't speak spanish he doesn't speak english either so that's good
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right, exactly. So we're sitting there, and we don't know what the hell is going on. But after the meeting, we get like two minutes to kind of talk to him. We have a translator. We're trying to figure out what's going on. And they say that he asked, the prosecutor asked my attorney for $140,000, and this all goes away. I didn't have $140,000 at the time, or at least liquid. I didn't have it.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And my lawyer basically tells him, go fuck off, and I'll see you in court. So in the Dominican Republic, I don't know if you know this, but you're supposed to see a judge two days after your arrest, within two days after your arrest. So they bring me to this. I guess Rikers Island, you know what Rikers Island is? Yeah.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So they bring me to this like Rikers Island, which is like a temporary facility until you see a judge or until something happens. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm hysterical. I don't know what's going on. Number one, I've never been in jail. Number two, I've never been arrested. So I don't know what's going on. I still don't know what I'm being charged with.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I go to this thing, and I'm thinking I'm going to be there for a day tops because I'm going to see a judge. I got arrested yesterday. I have to go see a judge by tomorrow, maybe the next day, max. So I'm going to get out. I'm going to get bail, or he's going to dismiss it, and I'm going to get out, and that's what it is.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So, we end up going, I'm in this jail, this temporary jail, and I'm really uncomfortable. I don't have clothes. I don't have anything. And I can't communicate with anybody because nobody speaks the language. So now I go to court two days later, and the court system or my lawyer or somebody screwed up and don't have a translator for me. So they postpone it for another week.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So now I'm going to be there for nine days. And I thought, that was the end of the world. I mean, that was the end of the world. I want to go home. I want to see my kids. This is not where I'm supposed to be. So I started freaking out. And they let my lawyer come see me. And they let my wife at the time come see me. And... we go through that whole thing.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So nine days rolls around in my, my ex-wife's time. I ended up going back to New York. So it's just me and my lawyer now. And there was this guard that he was really nice and he was being paid by my lawyer to be nice to me or to watch me or whatever it may be. And I haven't heard from the embassy yet. My ex-wife called him, but I haven't heard from the embassy yet.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I don't know what's going on with that. So we finally get a, my lawyer gets a translator and we have a lawyer and now we have the court date, right? So we're going to court. I'm going home, right? You would think I'm going home. I'm thinking you don't. I thought I was going home. So I get to court and... they say you have to stay in jail for two months, right?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
While we figure this whole thing out. And I am bawling my eyes out at this point. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I want to go home to my kids. I'm in a third world country. I don't know what to, I don't, again, I don't, I find out at this time that I'm being charged with international narcotics trafficking. That's what I'm, that's my charge.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And like international, and I'm thinking in the back of my head, international, that's, That's big. That sounds serious. Right. That sounds like a problem. But my lawyer is telling me, two months you're going home. Don't worry about it. We'll figure it out.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right, right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right. But now when I get to court, when they sentence me to two months... I see all these cameras there, and I don't know if they're for me or for another defendant or whatever it may be. But later on that day, I'm sitting in the jail, and I see my attorney on the television in jail talking that blaming the prosecutor for planting XC in the palate. I'm like, holy shit.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I mean, first of all, nobody does. Like half my vendors are, you know, they're like ex-con. Like they all went sober. You know, they all went straight.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So that's what happened. So I was like, none of them do X. You know, that's not what it is. So he goes on the news and says the prosecutor planted X in the boxes and this, that, and the other. Now that can't be good for me. You know, that was accusing a prosecutor of planting drugs in my shipment. You know, that can't be good for me on any front. So Now I'm looking at two months, you know?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So my lawyer's telling me, because it's in Santo Domingo, it's close of him to come visit me, and he's gonna try to keep me in Santo Domingo and not bring me to a long-term facility for as long as humanly possible. Well, wouldn't you know it, two weeks later, I know I'm crying every day. You know, I'm upset. You're clearly not.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right, right. I'm more of a, I'm more of a, it's called, and I have a guy, you know? And so two weeks later, my name gets called to be transferred to like a real jail, like a real prison. And I'm freaking the fuck out. I'm like, what's going to happen? They're like, don't worry. Your case doesn't get postponed or anything. It's just part of the process, right?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I get, so we take this ride on this bus to like a real prison. It was called an Ohio 20. And. Again, I don't know what's going on. So I get off the bus and they bring me – they start like an intake kind of. So they start an intake and this guy – so in there, in Dominican Republic, they're ranked by like stripes on the collar. So a regular guard is – like you're just starting.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
A rookie is one stripe. A regular guard is two stripes, a supervisor's three stripes, a subdirector of the prison is four stripes, and a director is five stripes. So they tell me that this four stripe guy, the subdirector, is gonna come handle me. I was different than anybody, so I got a little more attention than most people would. So this guy comes in.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I'm the only one. I'm the only American.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
It's on the smaller side of what's there. So there's 800 prisoners in this one and this guy's coming to come see me and kind of show me what's going on or the best of his knowledge. So not only does this guy Montero come see me, but he brings one of the prisoners who speak English. Okay. He got deported from the US, but he spent, he did 14 years in the US, but he speaks English.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So at least we'll get somewhere at this point. Right. So he tells me that before I go into this guy's cell, I have to go into observation for two weeks. And I, that's just how the system works. I have to go into observation with like 30, 20, 25 people in one room and they see how I am. And then I go into, I could go into general population.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But the observation room was kind of like in the same general area as, like, the hole, you know, would be considered. So that was a little rough. So he put me in this maximum security room. And there was one guy who spoke English there, too. But he was a real scumbag. We'll learn to learn. We'll learn. Right. And he was doing a bunch of years also.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I go there, and now keep in mind it's three hours away from Santo Domingo where my lawyer is, and they don't have apps where you could transfer money to my commissary. So somebody has to come to the jail to put money in my commissary so I could buy anything. Now, I'm not eating because, number one, I don't eat the food, and I'm too upset to eat. So I'm already starting to lose weight.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
When I got arrested, I was 323 pounds. I don't know if you saw the thing. I don't know if you saw the CBS thing last night. They had my mugshot. I was significantly bigger than I am now. I was 323 pounds. Now I'm 219. I didn't realize you were that big. Yeah. I was ginormous.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I'm starting not to eat, and because of nerves, because of anxiety, because of everything, I'm starting to lose a little weight, but that's okay. I can afford to lose weight at this point, you know? So I go into this thing, and we gather that the only way to get me money is
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I do this, and my mother or my wife at the time send money, but I'm basically sending money blind to somebody I met a few times, so I don't know if I'm going to get it.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Yeah, some inmate.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Yeah. So that became a whole thing. But I learned that they have Oreos and they have chips and they have like cup noodles. So at least I get something. Yeah. Because I'm not eating anything they're bringing me in their food. And I also learned that they have like a premium meal service that you could buy at the commissary every day they have lunch.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So let me try that because I'm not eating the food that they're giving me.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
not only is it garbage, but it's made in filth. So like there's cockroaches and roach and rats and everything like that. So it's like, so I'm never been in an American prison. You have, I'm assuming you have. So I would have to say jail food's bad, but it's associated with your country. But yeah, This is jail food for me when I've never been in prison, but it's not associated with my country.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So even if it was a shitty burger, at least it was a burger. You understand what I'm saying? This is rice and beans when I don't eat rice and beans on the outside to begin with, but this was the shitty version of rice and beans. So I'm not eating anything there, and now I'm living off of cookies and ramen and whatever there was at the commissary. So... At least I have something.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And the guy ends up taking the majority of the money I send him and just stealing it, right?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
No, he's not telling me. He's just saying this is, you know. They sent $200.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Right, right. And not only is that the conversion rate and you've got to pay somebody to go get the money and bring the money to the prison and this, that, and the other. So that's where we are. So I go to Montero and I tell him, put me in general population. I need to at least get outside and have, you know, some sort of like, I need air.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Because I was walking, as much as they would let me walk in the first prison, I would walk because it was kind of clearing my head. It was my only time to kind of think to myself. Right. And I knew that in the main area in general population, people were getting phones. There were legal phones, but there were phones being snuck in by guards or whatever it may be.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I knew that at bare minimum, I would be able to buy a phone in general population. So he said, all right. He said, go into general population. And he puts me with this guy, Roy, who he's going to basically carry us out through the end of the story because he was my only... Even though he was a career criminal, he was my only...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
kind of salvational way I would be able to communicate with everybody, he would kind of show me the ropes. He was told by Montero, and he worked in the prison, so he was like, he did food service and he shined people's shoes, like the guard's shoes, so he kind of knew the ins and outs, and he was there for four years at the time, or three years at the time, so he would show me the ropes.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I moved to Roy's room. Now there are four buildings in general population and building three was where Roy was. But I learned later that building three was the worst building because like it was like the building for bad kids, you know, but they had to put me there because Roy was there and Roy didn't want to move. So I had to go there.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I go to, they offered to put me in maximum security, which was in one of the buildings, but in maximum security, you can't really go outside. But I would be safe and protected. But I didn't want to do that because I wanted to go outside and I wanted a phone. So I said, no, put me in Roy's room. And I wanted somebody that spoke English. So I get to Roy's cell.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And the buildings are very third world. You know, like very third world. There's cockroaches everywhere. And it's just concrete, but it's dirty and old. Well, the story behind it is the US gave the DR... several hundred million dollars to reform and update this prison. So the guy who appropriated these funds stole these funds. And actually was in this prison also for a short amount of time.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So it was very third world. They didn't have any water. They didn't have running water for 10 minutes a day. They only had running water. They would turn it on. And if you didn't shower with the Dominicans, the 40 Dominicans, on your floor, you had to preserve water for later to take like a bird bath, like with gallons, you know? Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So I chose to find gallons of water, empty gallons, and I would shower later. That's the picture with all the empty gallons or milk jugs.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Yeah, they were like gallons or half gallons or buckets. But not only you couldn't shower, you had to preserve water to flush down the toilet because the toilets weren't flushing. They had no running water. I mean, they put on the water for five or seven minutes at 6.30 in the morning, and then at 5.30, 6 o'clock at night, that's what you would get. And water wasn't every day.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Every two weeks, the water system would go out, so we didn't have water for days sometimes, right? So I knew that now I had a water, I had a shower by myself. So we would gather water and we would do that whole thing. So I figured that out. My friend Roy got me a phone. Figured that out.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Roy was nice to me, so he said, he was round number two of send my sister money, I'll get it to whoever we need to get it to. So there was two economies in the prison. There was... the illegal economy, right? And there was the legal economy, which was the commissary. So I needed money in both economies because I had to buy my phone.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
I started smoking because I didn't have any vapes, so I started buying cigarettes. And there was the legal economy, With the commissary, and if I didn't get money deposited in the jail, I needed to find out how to get tickets because they didn't have cash at tickets.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So every Tuesday, whoever's family member would go to the prison on Sunday, visit you, put money in your commissary, and then on Tuesday they would hand out the tickets. So I had to find out how to get tickets. So subsequently, the people who sold drugs and the people who sold phones and cigarettes, they had tickets because they were vendors, right?
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So the smart thing was to find one drug dealer, one vendor, and having a relationship with him, get him the money, and on Tuesday, whatever money I didn't spend on cigarettes and my phone or buying drugs for doing favors for me, I would have left over so I could buy food at the commissary. Makes every sense. Everything seems simple, right? Yeah. Okay.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So when I first got to general population, I don't know if you saw the picture, they had everybody carried around these big machetes. You saw those? Yeah. I'll show you a picture. And there were these machetes that they would break up the beds, the bunk beds, and they would file them down and make machetes. And that's what they would walk around with.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And everybody's doing drugs and this, that, and the other.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
and buying them from they would have two ways of they would have two ways of smuggling these drugs in it was one crooked guards and two they would throw these like wrapped bowls over a fence like really really like down and dirty type of thing and they would fish them with like fishing you know like like little little string and they would fish them and bring them in the
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
building so at least i had cigarettes on the phone i could call my kids i could call my my wife at the time and i called my mother and a few friends so i got that you know and now everybody was kind of fascinated with me because i was the american but everybody also thought i was rich I always had a decent living and a good business. I supported my household, but by no means was I wealthy.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But to Dominicans, I was the wealthy gringo. That's what I was. So not only was everything more expensive to me, but everybody was going to try to take advantage. They picked up something from me off the floor. I had to buy them drugs or I had to give them something. Nothing was free. And now I'm scared half to death because I don't speak the language.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And the only person that I can really communicate is Roy. And Roy works most of the day. So I have to figure out how I'm going to communicate with these people. So I have my phone now. So I have Google Translate. But the problem with Google Translate is 60% of the inmates don't read or write. So now I'm really screwed. They're probably not speaking proper Spanish anyway. No, it's very slang.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
It's very slang Spanish. I'm trying to pick up some sort of Spanish. You know, very basics. So as I'm learning, I'm really keeping to myself. And I have my phone, so I'm talking. I'm on my phone a lot. I'm just playing on my phone a lot. But there were legal phones. So now every time a cop would come in the building, one guard was assigned to each building every day.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
But every time a guard would come in the building, the building had – Like they had calls. They would scream out Leo if they came in the building to put everything away or hide the drugs or put the phones away or whatever it may be. So I would have to find somebody that would take my phone because if they caught you with a phone or drugs – you would go into the hole.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
And I didn't want that to happen because this was already bad. So I would imagine, I don't even know what the hole was all about. And the hole is not like anything you did wrong, you went to the hole. But The guy who has a phone should be treated differently than the guy who just stabbed somebody. But that wasn't the case. Right. You know, so they were all in one spot.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
Just like when I was in the room, when I was in the cell... I was sharing a cell with two guys convicted of murder during 30 years. So there was no separation. But what you also have to understand is that 60% of the inmates are preventative. They're pre-trial. So 60% of these people haven't been convicted of anything, but they're all criminals. Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
So now I'm sitting waiting for my two months, you know, my two months to come up. I have like a month left. I'm trying to learn what was going on. I'm losing weight like crazy because I'm not eating. I'm living off of cookies and potato chips. And my lawyer comes visits me once. And at this time, my marriage is going through some trouble. Right? Right.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My marriage is going through some trouble and it seems like My wife at the time was looking for a way to get out. Right. So she even starts limiting how much we're talking. And her father, her stepfather, she was foreign, so she had an adopted family. That's a whole other story. Adopted family in the United States. And my father-in-law starts talking to me and basically tells me that
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
My wife at the time really didn't want to talk to me much. And she's starting to gather my assets. She's starting to take money out of my bank, my business account. She knew all my pin numbers and stuff like that. So she's starting to hoard my money, starting to sell my stuff in my office. And she's starting to sell furniture. And she's starting to kind of like...
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
transition to move out of the situation. So I got a call from my father-in-law one day and In my ex-wife's family, it's like a hierarchy. So they say jump, you say how high. I'm 40 years old, I'm 40-some-odd years old, 42 years old at the time, and that's just how it worked. They had four or five kids, and you didn't breathe if you didn't ask them. That's just how it was.
Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Prison Life for VitalyzTv | Extorted, Desperate, & Locked Up Abroad
It was very strange, you know? So now my, now what you have to remember is my lawyer is their family friend. So whether or not my, me and my wife stay together, I have to deal with them because they're my link to my attorney. Right. You know, and my, and my, and so now my, my, my father-in-law is telling me that my lawyer is only going to speak to me through them. And, What? Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
This one action is keeping you broke. In today's discussion, we're throwing it back to a interview that I did with Alex Ramosi. Alex shares with us a little known secret that actually changed the trajectory of his career. Have you ever been focused on a certain aspect of your business, but found yourself distracted looking at other opportunities in the way you can make money? Don't worry.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, and so for those of you guys who don't know, we had this mastermind. We'll actually pop up the little picture right here. I had Russell Brunson, Alex, Layla, Brooke Castillo, Ruben Chen, a few guys. A few just amazing, amazing people that were at that event. And yeah, Alex referenced in our podcast right here where that was a big change for him.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
I think that just goes back to like having an established culture of trust, right? Like that we have the same goals, the same vision and direction for where we're going in the relationship, in the business or whatnot. And so that even when you are misaligned, right? Like you're willing to like...
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
take the corrective feedback or support somebody that you don't necessarily understand the exact decision, right? It's just like, hey, we're in this together. And so, and to even answer your question a little bit further, like when was that? I think it did, it's like over so many years of experience and different things that have taken place.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
But I think one of the most key principles along with this of the addressing pain now is, is the ability to have hard conversations, right? Because that is a painful thing in business partnerships, in business.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's like when somebody does something wrong or does you wrong or like there's something that you really don't agree with, rather than putting it off and allowing it to fester, going and addressing the situation in the moment. Like that is the most quick and painful thing that you can do in business is
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so like when you disagree about it, you go and a lot of times you create this anxiety and the stress around it. Like, oh man, what are they going to think? What are they going to say? Instead of like pondering on that, you go, you address it. And I cannot tell you how many times I have just panicked over a potential hard conversation I was going to have.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
And then five minutes into it, I'm like, oh, this isn't as bad as I thought. Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
So I think two things there. One, like, yes, saying no to opportunities that because, yeah, we can always find ways to make money. Right. But the second one is saying no to fulfilling my own personal desires outside of the business, robbing the business. to satisfy my cars, my watches, my house, or whatever, instead of biting the bullet and playing the long game, right?
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Taking that money, reinvesting it in marketing, reinvesting it in growth. Because, I mean, dude, there were years, two, three years, where all the money that we were making at Solgen was just getting rolled right back into it.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
And that's the way that we were able to build the long-term money that ultimately allowed us to be able to go and exit a private equity because we were investing into that growth.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
I love it. What we're talking about here is the eighth pillar of growth, which is the leadership pillar, where it's housed under having the hard conversation, doing the painful things in the moment, the self-development, everything like that. A lot of you guys have heard about the eight pillars. If you haven't, go ahead and drop a comment down below. Ask us any questions that you have.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Also, make sure that you like and subscribe to the channel. We're going to continue to roll out and help teach these different eight pillars for growth. I mean, fundamentally, to be able to scale any business, you have to implement these eight pillars across the board. And so many business owners, as we know in our community, they struggle with these different type of pillars.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
But hopefully you gained a ton of value from today's conversation. Until next time.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
This is what every single entrepreneur goes through. In this episode, we'll talk about the principle that launched Alex into his personal brand and the success that you know him as and what made a huge difference in our two nine-figure exits. All this and more on today's episode.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, so the pain matrix is pretty simple, right? Like you experience pain regardless. Pain now, pain later. There's no choice in experiencing pain. Now, the cool thing about like anything that we choose now will be only for a very little time. It's not a long duration. So we have a choice of do I want the fake fruit now or do I want the short pain now? And both are short, right? So like...
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
The fake fruit is I got out of the work. So to answer your question, a lot of guys, when they need to get sales in the door or revenue isn't hitting the road, they're going to convince themselves that they need to spend time bookkeeping. They need to spend time... cleaning up their offer.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
They need to spend time working on their management team, everything to avoid the pain of going out and generate revenue or generating the actual issue that is causing like the financial. And so what they get in that little time, they get a nice little fake fruit, little dopamine hit of like, Oh, I liked what I was doing, right? Like I enjoyed doing the bookkeeping.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
I enjoyed doing this and I avoided that. But obviously the long-term pain of that is what shows up in the financial statement or ultimately hits the bank account versus the opposite. where it's like door knocking. Door knocking is a painful activity that most people want to do everything to avoid.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
And really the initial pain is getting out to an area, getting out of your door and actually making that first knock, whether you're going business to business, business to consumer, to home to home. These are all just very short-term pains that you're going to experience because the second you're in that conversation with the customer, all of a sudden it's rewarding.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
You're starting to see the benefit. You close down a customer. You at least have conversations. You make some progress towards that thing. And so I think the important thing to understand wherever you're at is like… The thing now is very temporary and later is always going to be lasting. So like waking up at 5 a.m., going to the gym, that took five minutes of pain.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
And then you show up to the gym, you get your two hour workout in and you get that longevity of being in shape versus I got an extra 10 minutes of sleep. I put it off or whatever and it felt good in the moment. But now I've got a 400 pound waistline, you know. Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
But yeah, to your point, it's the pain, right? Like if I know I need to go out and knock doors. I'm thinking about it all the time. It's in the back of my mind. It's causing me energy suck while I'm trying to focus on all these other things instead of just going and biting the bullet, doing the thing now and then moving on and taking advantage of the next step.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, so it's actually just like the power of decisiveness. In fact, we were at Funnel Hacking Live a couple weeks ago, and we were sitting down with a guy that was considering joining our program. And he was like, man, I just really need to think about it. I need to do this, this, and this. And then I explained to him this principle. I said, look... You don't need to buy our course.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
You don't need to join our community. You don't need to do any of these things. Just learn this one principle from me. And I explained to him the power of being decisive. Right. And like when you make a decision, you can move on. You don't got to continue to think about it. You're not going through this pain. And like.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
And the thing I've seen over the years is like the most successful people that I know are decisive in the moment. They measure out the information, they make a decision, they move forward and they don't no longer think about it. They no longer have to dwell on that pain. And the crazy thing is, is like after I taught him that principle, he immediately switched and is like, all right, let's do it.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
I'm in. And then later remarks how much that has changed just the way that he has improved his business making decisions. And so not only has he gotten a ton just from being a part of our community, but just that mental switch of being decisive. And I think it would actually be cool. Let's just switch over to a little clip from him.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, so that was wild. So I was speaking at an event back in November. And with Kyle Malian, he has an incredible group. They teach people how to go and acquire businesses and whatnot. And so I run into... A friend of mine that I hadn't seen in years, I had met at a previous event. We had stayed in contact via social media. He had recently had a baby and different things.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so they invited me to go to dinner after I speak. And I'm like, yeah, dude, let's do it. And so we jump in the car and there in the backseat is his girlfriend. And, and I'm like, cool, man. So you guys just had a kid, right? Yeah. Yeah, we do. And, uh, I'm like, so when's, when's the big day when you guys get married? And they're like, Oh, you know, I don't know.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like, like we're committed to each other and you know, all these different things. Like he gave me all these reasons of why he's committed without being committed, which, which was just interesting. And so then we went through and we just talked about like, dude, marriage is like the ultimate form of commitment. Why wouldn't you give
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
the woman that you love and you say you want to be with forever and everything else. And you already have a child with like, why would you not do some level of commitment? And like, we had this discussion for like two or three hours to ultimately he's like, dude, I said, look, I'm an ordained minister. Let's get you married. We're in Vegas. We are in the city of marriage.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
In fact, fun fact that I learned that night, Vegas will process up to a thousand marriage certificates a day.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Pretty wild. Pretty wild. That's insane. And so, dude, we get to one of the casinos at like 8.30 or 9. We go to a jewelry store. He gets a ring. We go to dinner. He proposes that dinner. He makes the decision, acts on it, proposes. They get engaged. We dial up everything to get the marriage license approved. And it's closing at midnight.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
One of the only places in the world where the marriage certificates close at midnight from the city government building. We head over there. We get the certificate. We go to a local chapel, get married, do all this stuff, dude. It was like one of the craziest nights. I think we wrapped it up about 2 a.m. No alcohol, no anything. Like nothing's going on. And so...
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
So this is the, uh, this is the, the stuff we had going on. But the crazy thing was, is like how much their lives have changed since being decisive. I went and visit him. So that was in November. I just visited him last month down in Arizona and his wife comes up to me and she's like, I just want to thank you so much. Like our lives have completely changed. Like since we have become decisive.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Basically, that's what she was saying, right? We've become decisive. We've become committed to each other. And I think there's just so much power in commitment.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Well, this goes back to back in COVID, right? So like when COVID hit, that was obviously a big deal over at our solar business. And I don't know if you guys remember the words that we were using, like we were
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
uh the the word pivot remember we say hey we need to pivot not panic oh yeah yeah and so because like dude that was a time of panic a lot of people were scared they had no idea what was going to be going on with their business and so we had to just be decisive to be able to get out of that negative situation that hey look we're going to pivot we're going to make some changes in the business and we're not going to panic about it and so yeah it works for both good and
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, the good things, the bad things, the ugly gets you out of good situations, keeps you in the good situations.
Next Level Pros
#142: Alex Hormozi: Why you're still broke // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, amen, amen. You know, Alex has just so many good takes. I mean, obviously, 3.2 million subscribers now on YouTube. This guy's got some really good takes. It's fun to look back on our experience with Alex. Obviously, you guys remember when we had him up to the cabin. Oh, that was a fun time. That was a good time.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so I've actually gone down a pretty deep rabbit hole. Like I've always been really open to like, different theories, if you will. But like just over the last few years, I've been like even more open to like, what if history isn't the way that we know it? And like how simple it would be to impact and change our history, right?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like one to two generations, you can completely shift mindset, learning, education, like even what history was and what, you know, all these different things. And because it's like, how do we know history? Well, we were taught it in school.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
or we watched it on the news or you know some television program or some hollywood uh type thing and so like like that for me has been like probably like the biggest thing where i'm just like man i'm open to anything like like you you want to share with me that you think is like so far out there i'm like dude well how can this how could this be true right like like i i i'm more and so like
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's funny. I've never talked about this on a podcast, but I now refer to myself as round earth agnostic.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And you know, the thing about me, like I love people that I like immediately have a good vibe and energy connection with. And so welcome to the show, man. Excited to have you.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And it's not because I'm a flat earther. I'm not a flat earther. But I have no idea that the world is really round, right? Like I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it from space. I have no reason to believe that it's one way or the other. And so like I'm open. And for me, where I've found truth is like,
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
that like i cannot even trust men i can only trust like god right like receiving revelation i'm a big believer that like the just the only source of truth can be like taught to our hearts and you just be open to all different types of things and then like certain things you're confirmed over time and some things you'll just never quite understand or know yeah and so and i've and i've kind of got to that thing i'm just like man there's there's just some fun arguments on all kinds of like theories out there whatnot so like i'm like
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
shoot them at me. Let's test them. Let's see where we're at and go from there.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
What does it even matter? Even pick it aside, does it even matter? I love hearing the arguments of both sides.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So you talk about the stem cells, but the other thing that really stuck out to me in our conversation was talking about the antibodies and how...
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
literally our urine is a custom to what we're experiencing right now right like the the fact that like whatever our body is fighting it's producing antibodies and it's being urinated out right and that in high concentration and so like that that was like man that that for me that made a lot of sense and and like can you like go into a little more depth of like when like maybe someone gets a snake bite or like you know these type of things and like why you would
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Pee on it.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's the only thing that medical has recommended.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Here's the crazy thing. So today, maybe you're going to look back and take a look at my social media. Jonathan, yesterday we started talking. Was it yesterday that we met? Yeah. Oh man, it was a long day.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
If you're, if you're dying, please consider.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. We spent a lot of time together and just like, he started sharing with me these different health studies and to the point where he inspired me to drink my own urine this morning and never done in my life. But today was the day. And if you go and you take a look at my Instagram, you're going to see me.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Jonathan, this sounds, you know, semi, I might be on board, right? Like what's the first step to become a urine drinker? Oh, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So this is your urine?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, people are like, no, it's not real.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Um, one is like, I know I need to drink a tablespoon, all of my urine. Like when should I drink it? Like, I mean, what?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And just sip it.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Dude, is that not leaving like the nasty smell on your lips or anything like that?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
You could just, ah, we, we play for baby. Let's go.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So when you're drinking it, do people put this on ice so they add flavor to it?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And I think we're going to drop a video here on YouTube where you're going to be able to see me drinking that. All right. So yesterday, my boy Jonathan said he was telling me all the science behind drinking your own urine or whatnot. And he's like, dude, you got to do it. I'm like, all right, I'm in. He's like, no, you're not. I'm like, dude, I'm in.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
I've heard when diabetics have high blood sugar, that their pee is sweet. Is that correct?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, see, I've only had one experience with tasting my, you know, I'm diabetic, and my blood sugar was fine at the time, so it wasn't sweet when I drank it.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Incredible.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So, so let's go back. So drink first urine of the day, drink the whole thing. Okay, sure. And like, like, what if you want to just you're like, hey, I'm all in, right? Like Jonathan, I'm all in. Should I be drinking every pee of every day?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Well, okay.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so today we're going to be interviewing him on the show. But dude, I had to like, so as you just saw Pete in this thing, look at it. Like that's, that's legit me. Okay. So here we're going to do, we're going to just do a hardcore. Here we go. Never done it. Never done it before in my life, but here we go. Ready? Oh gosh, dude. All right.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So are we just talking about drinking it? I've heard there's like benefits for your skin, hair, like what else are we doing? Are we bathing in this stuff?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So this is the thing that makes sense for me. So I am a big believer in God and that the things of the earth is the way that God intended us to live, right? And our bodies are way to access God in different ways, whether through breath work. urine therapy, whatever it may be, right?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so what rings true to me is like, we have been indoctrinated to trust men and synthetic material, whether it's pharmaceuticals, food or whatnot, that's made by man, more than the things that are made by God, right? And so, I believe that the world, like the purpose of the opposite of the Creator is to try to indoctrinate us to trust men more than God.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And where the real purpose of life is to figure out how to stay close and trust God more than man.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
yeah and so for me that that makes that makes sense right like uh you know obviously it sounds a little crazy to to my indoctrinated mind yeah but i'm i'm definitely open to it so that's what i love about it no that's awesome i noticed that with your mind like it's like you in some ways you couldn't stop thinking about and that's what happened to me too where it was this kind of awe and wonder and mystery of wow like i can't believe that
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Well, I mean, dude, it's a beautiful time that we live in where, like I said, people are waking up. Like, you would never believed a couple years ago that a guy like RFK Jr. could be the head of health, right, for the United States. Like, people are finally waking up to, like, these alternative methods, the more natural, the homeopathic. And so it's pretty awesome that you're pushing it.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Now, obviously, you get a lot of initial knee-jerk reaction pushback when you say something like this. When you go against the way somebody's been indoctrinated, they don't feel indoctrinated. They just feel like that's truth, right? Like that's how life is or whatnot. So like, how do you handle situations like that?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's funny because, and I asked that knowing and seeing how we kind of went through that this morning with my wife. So for those that are watching, it was interesting before we jumped on this,
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
I had posted this video of me drinking my own urine and my wife had watched it right before I called her to wish her happy Valentine's Day and it was like immediately like there was like this just huge turn off right like knee-jerk reaction like I'm never gonna kiss you again stay down in Las Vegas Like, what did you do? I can't believe it.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
I think so. We'll actually show a quick clip of that and we'll show you how how Jonathan actually dealt a little bit with this.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
She's just, you know, it's a knee-jerk reaction right now.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Little lemony. Not as bad as you think. Not as bad as you think. Let's go, baby. We're doing it. Let's go for the health benefits. You're probably like, what? Chris, why on earth would you drink your own urine? And Jonathan, what do you say to those people?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So talking about urine therapy is awesome. You were also very involved in other health benefit and different homeopathic things like red light. So my wife, the interesting thing, it was really hard for her to accept any of this type. But then she became more open-minded just as I was talking with her. But she's totally into different health practices and she's been using red light for the last...
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
five months. Every morning she gets in, 5.30 a.m. she wakes up, she goes and gets under a couple blankets of red light, And after that she does a cold plunge and then she goes to the hot tub. And this has been like a transformative time in her life, right? Like I've seen her health improve, her body aches and skin and just all different types of her attitude and mentality.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And like, just like our relationship has improved. It's been pretty awesome. So like, give us more, like help us understand the science of that.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
so and the recommendation so it's not like super aggressive or like and he's he's frankly not really worried about it but um the recommendation has been to get radiation okay um what would you say to a situation like that sure and i'm really sensitive with this kind of thing and so i can't give like you know advice and so forth you're not giving advice you're just telling me like what if yeah exactly and here's what i would do all right yeah what would you do
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So doctor, you have cancer, hypothetically, this type of cancer. Doctor recommends radiation. What do you do?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So what would you do?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
i 100 agree yeah one one thing i always tell my clients or whatnot like look if you're waffling in decision making that's what's holding you back i say the most successful people in the world when they understand one plus one equals two they act on it and so for me it was one plus one equals two jonathan's sharing me with the studies and like like all these benefits and whatnot i'm just like what do i got to lose yeah let's go you got it you got it so
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
So you're out smoking cigarettes?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Gums or patches?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
The body naturally produces nicotine, right? And it comes actually from a lot of fruits and vegetables. It just is a higher concentration from the tobacco leaf.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
My mom was suffering from the, like, what's the crazy arthritis where you're like crippling arthritis? Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, rheumatoid arthritis. Rheumatoid arthritis, thank you. So my mom, several years ago, was suffering from rheumatoid arthritis to the point where she couldn't get out of bed. And she shifted her diet just to a raw diet. And she did that for six years.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
and within six months of doing that she was completely healed wow and she's she's never struggled with it since wow and uh so yeah it's it's been uh it it's pretty pretty remarkable just like the natural benefits that we can get from these things and and and i love like what you're talking about with with red light so like this is that's like one of the main things that you focus on right like that's one of your businesses tell us about that yeah absolutely man so yeah red light therapy because i believe in it so much i
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Do we edit that? No. Go to redlife.com. All right. Where do we go? Myredlight.com. Myredlight spelled L-I-G-H-T. Correct.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Myredlight.com.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Awesome. And do you have a discount for any of these guys?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
We love deals.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
You're passionate about it.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
okay give us the code baby next level next level we're getting a little discount on that thing an additional big discount awesome awesome hey so everybody head over get your products i'm gonna be probably buying a few things awesome yeah they love uh love a good uh good deal especially on a good product and just so you guys know like he's legit like from a from a standpoint of like we've talked a lot the last couple days he's never once tried selling me on anything it's all
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
it's just been like he's passionate like I love your passion I love I love like your belief in what you're doing and like the mission behind it and everything else which is like super respectable and uh yeah man just love what you're all about bro thank you that means a lot man yeah absolutely like
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
I appreciate it. Speaking of following, what's the best place to like follow you? What platform are you most active on?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Tinfoil looks good on some people.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Today in the studio we have Jonathan Otto. Super excited to have him on. This guy is insane. He's gonna go over some controversial stuff today. He's an investigative health journalist in the space. He's got a connection with RFK Jr. As you guys know, he was recently confirmed as the, what was the title?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby. So let me cut you off right there because look, you're spitting a lot of really cool things, right?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
And like everyone's interest kind of peaked, but then all of a sudden it's like, wait, no. No, there's no way this is true. And like, so what are the actual studies? I mean, I mean, who's to say you're not just this snake oil salesman, right? That just come up with all these different stats, right? Like it's it's easy. What is it they say?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like 86% of all statistics are made up, even including that one. and so so like what are the studies behind these things that are like you said like in 2008 it was uh it was found out that there's stem cells in in our urine like so what where was where those studies found yeah so that was an example that was the wake forest university well
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Dude, Secretary of the Human Health Service here in the United States. Everybody was talking about it on X and social media, like whether he was going to make it or not. And so Jonathan actually is part of his media team, media group, and pushing and promoting and just has some really cool ties.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
What you're telling me, if I drink my own pee. I'll save myself $20,000 in going and getting stem cell treatment.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
I'm saving 20 grand a day.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Jeez, dude, what is that? That's like $70 million a year. Yeah, seven.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Wow. All right. So you heard it here first. Save $7 million a year on stem cells by drinking your own pee.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
Do I need to drink a tablespoon? All of my urine? When should I drink it?
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
As you guys know, I am a fanatic about health and figuring out ways to take care of our bodies in a more natural manner. And so, I just met Jonathan and we're both at an event. You can probably see the blue wristbands that we have on here. We're attending an event. We were introduced to each other and like immediate connection, just good energy, good vibes.
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, it's interesting. You talk about being open-minded, like there's been a huge shift in our society, right? Like so many of us grew up just kind of like in this like indoctrination circle of like, this is how things are. This is what the government told me to believe. This is the...
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
you know pharmaceuticals that i need to take and everything else and obviously there was an event that took place five years ago that i really think that began to open people's minds of like what's actually happening and like what are we and started questioning what we're being told right just because blatant lies after like guidance and crazy like
Next Level Pros
#139: Can Drinking Pee Heal You? // Jonathan Otto on Alternative Medicine // Next Level Pros Podcast
things that we had to do to comply were just so far out there, right? The requests that were being made. And you just saw this, like, I would say like a second great awakening of like people to all of a sudden being more open to these type of conversations of like, well, maybe what I've been told or what I read in the history books or whatever else.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I think that's such a key to anybody that's listening to this show right now, like the relentless pursuit of education, improvement, right? Like not settling with where you're at and just always looking for that next edge, that next – ability to level up. Who knows more than me?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I think the thing that I suffered from most in my first business that failed was thinking I knew everything and not going to other people for help. That's where I struggled in my 20s. I just thought I knew everything. I was pretty intelligent, high IQ, successful in everything that I had done up until that point. And it was like, because of it, when things were hard, I didn't go to anybody else.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I just tried dealing with it. Right. Instead of like going to a Tommy or a Daryl and be like, dude, help me. Like, I don't know what to do in this type of situation or how do I get through this? How do I improve? Whatever it may be. I think that's that's probably one of the most key things to anybody that's been successful.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Well, that's the cool thing. I think we all come from very similar backgrounds, right? Daryl grew up in a double wide with eight kids. You know, my dad was a school teacher. Mom was a stay-at-home mom. Like, all of us really came from, like, basic essentials, right? We all had shirts on our backs and, you know, food on the table and good loving family or whatnot.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And at this point, you guys are doing how much? $17 million. $17 million, which is a respectable business, but it ain't anything cool.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And just get it done.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Love it.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
But we've all built something pretty amazing. You know, it's interesting what you're talking about. So, like, the whole premise of our new show is with Next Level Pros is that, like, no matter where you're at, there's always the next level. You always have the ability to level up. And frankly, success and happiness come from when you are leveling up.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like a software company.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
You had a great revenue-driving engine, and the backside was just dirty. Just a mess. A mess. Dirty.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
When you're plateauing or leveling down, no matter how much money, how much success you've had, that's stressful.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
All your profits.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Dude, I think you're a great example of – so I think in business, a lot of guys refuse to do this. You either got to, one, have incredible partners, or two, you got to hire incredible consultants, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like that is the only way to break through and get to the next level because everybody that's just trying to do it on their own, right, based on their own IQ and everything else, right, they're going to make a lot of mistakes. Right. It's going to take decades. Yeah, it's going to take decades.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
If you get there, right? Like if you're able to survive that long and continue to, you know.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, I mean, for us, for me, it was hiring the right people and partnering with the right people, right? Like, having Daryl at my side was huge because he helped keep my ideas sane, right? Like, in... And I was able to bring all the good stuff.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
But at the same time, spending a million bucks on my personal education, getting the right coaches and the consultants, going and spending four and a half years working for other people. Right. You're going to be talking with Todd later today.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Todd is one of my the greatest mentors. The funny thing is, I didn't I didn't even spend a ton of one on one time with Todd, like hardly any. But most of it was being in the room, seeing his strategy, seeing how he interacted with his leadership, right? And there's a few different ways that you can invest in these type of mentors. One, you can go and work for him.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
That's what I did with Todd, right? And I also watched from afar kind of seeing what he was doing when I wasn't working for him. So like that was a huge turning point in my career was studying Todd Peterson and the way that this guy – does business. Like I love everything about it.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Exactly. And it aligned with my personality. Me and Todd have very similar type personalities. We both big dreamers and everything else. And I saw how he was utilizing his team to be able to go and execute. An orchestrator. Orchestrator.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
High leverage of management team and everything else. Right. Like all of us that are super successful at one point, we have to give up control. Right. Like because we love the micromanagement at some point in our career because we're like, I can do this and I can do everything. Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like we and so that was probably one of the biggest turning points in building Solgen was when I finally decided, you know, I'm going to surround myself with incredible people, give up control.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Oh, game changer.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I mean, that's exactly how we built SoulGen, right? Like we had guys that had sold businesses for millions of dollars come and work for us for like a minimum salary to have some equity upside, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
The questions you ask. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Well, it's funny. Like I had this picture. It was like four different garages. It showed the Google garage, the Facebook garage. And we had the soul gen garage and we would always be like, look, this is us.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yep.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Well, you know, it's, I mean, there's a lot of things, but one was the strategy of generating leads online, right? Like that was something that prior to us doing it, there really wasn't any, there was people only in the SEO game, right? Google, pay-per-click type stuff, but nobody was doing the education side of the marketing, which was fantastic.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, that type of leader.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yes, exactly.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Facebook was always about 40 to 50 percent of our business. Like when we were running a two point two million dollar budget a month. Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah. Yeah. Just just Facebook, not including Instagram. And so, you know, like that, that was our really cutting edge because we, initially we did what we called web to home, where we generate the lead online, go and sell it in the home. And then eventually we scaled it out through a virtual sales floor. Yeah. And we did that pre-COVID, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And so, like the fact, like we had a lot of lucky moments in building SoulGen. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
um which you know it was just us taking enough risk and different things and one of those was we launched our sales floor our virtual sales floor november 2019 right and so by the time five months later when covid hit we had a 25 man sales floor and we were prepped and ready to be able to just go and scale through where everybody else was like panicking anybody that was in the door-to-door world or the
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Or the count over the table type sale, they're like, what do we do? People won't let us in their homes, right? Especially in some of the more liberal states.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Oh, really, really tough.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I mean, Washington, Oregon. That's where you live. Oh, yeah. These are places that literally people are quadruple masking, right? They want 10-foot social distancing. It's just crazy. You can't even go into a coffee shop. Right, right. And so – Like those were like having that set up was one of the biggest things. And then from day one, you can't give Daryl everything.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Go ahead.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Operating out of my garage.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah. So I mean, culture was extremely on purpose by design upfront from day one, right? The way that we were creating trust, the way we were creating transparency, the vision, the core values, all the things, right, from day one. And many of the things that I learned from Todd Peterson, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And being a part of like everybody in the Vivint industry, this home security automation that everyone always called it the orange Kool-Aid, right? If you're drinking the orange Kool-Aid, It's because Todd was the master orchestrator of culture. And so we went and took his blueprint and just we applied it and just thought big and crazy.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And, you know, the cool thing was the first couple of years when we were operating out of my garage. Like, the vision was so crazy. And people walk into a garage, people think, people are just like, dude, this is nuts. Like, why would I believe you? Like, we're sitting in a garage. That's a hard sell. That's a hard sell. But that actually made it even better, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Because it was so extreme, right? People either had to, like, jump on board completely with the vision. Yeah. There was no in-between. It wasn't like, oh, I've got a comfy office space to be able to operate in. If I'm committing to coming and sweating in 85 degrees in a garage, the only reason is because I believe in what this idiot keeps preaching every single day.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
started in a garage well it's funny like i had this picture it was like four different garages it showed the google garage the facebook garage that's it i know and we had the soul gen garage and we would always be like look this is us like we're this is what we're building this is how and so like people would get buy into it and just get excited about it even though like from all outside perspective there's no reason they should have bought it yeah
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Absolutely.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
You do have to have an idea, right? You have to have a roadmap of like, this is how it's going to be possible, but you don't have every single detail.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
So what is another reason that you think – So let me actually jump in and add to this. Just hit me. Giuseppe, we need a little water. Water's for these guys. To me. So... No, you're good. So I think one of the big turning points is when we got really clear on KPIs and the reporting, right? Like, that is...
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
one, I think fundamental to any business, but two, it was so like, so we went in 2019, we did 32 million. 2020, we did 34 million. It wasn't great growth. But during that year, we set foundation from a management perspective, like the management team that we put in place, the reporting, the KPIs, right? Like we set this foundation in 2020 that was absolutely phenomenal.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And in between 2020 and 2021, we went from $34 to $89 million, right? We tripled our revenue. And much of that – and then the next year from $89 to $233 million. And much of that is because we were reporting real-time revenue. Like to this day, like I still have some equity in that business. I get a text message every time a deal is generated on there. And it's like this full report.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like this is how the lead was generated. This is where we're pacing. And so we created this way of competition and recognition and accountability, right? that just drove the business to go and level up continuously. And so then we would, we would set these goals or these projections and every single hour we'd be able to measure, like, are we on pace off pace? Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like, and, and, uh, and that's where I think things really became crazy. Right. It was just with this level of accountability.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Especially in solar. I see that all the time. Their model isn't scalable, right? They build it for today, not for tomorrow.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Half the price, right? We would be priced at $60,000 and the competitor would be at $30,000 for the same system, right? And to be able to help these guys see why that was necessary, right? Like why allowing us to be able to not cut corners, focus on the customer experience, be in business long term. have a healthy profit margin that's going to be able to go and scale growth, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And so those are levels of like our culture and transparency where just people knew what our margins were and everything else, and they were fine because they were bought into the long-term and the vision.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I love it. I love it. So you're bringing up like some solid points that we definitely implement in our culture. Like one, there is no loyalty in business, only trust, right? Like a lot of business owners fail on the side of they try building this loyalty. And what is loyalty? It's like you just work hard for me because you're part of the family. It's not where trust is like,
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
You're going to bring value and I'm going to make sure that you receive value, right? Like I'm going to provide opportunity, a roadmap. You're going to have long-term buy-in, right? And the second that that's violated, I expect you to go work for the competitor versus a loyalty type relationship. It's more of like a slave and a master, right? And it's like, you just do this because I said so.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Not because there's benefit, not because there's anything else, right? Just do it because I cut your paycheck, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And the thing I always tell people, I said, look, if you're building this loyalty type of relationship, you have a slave and a master, and what happens when a slave wants to leave? They leave in the middle of the night. You're not going to get the opportunity to retain these type of people because they're just going to leave your culture versus a trust culture.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Trust culture, the guy is going to come and say, hey, look, I've got this opportunity that's being presented to me down the street. But I know you've always had my best interest. What do you think? Should I take it?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And that's the type of culture we always tried to foster because we never lost our top players because they knew that if there was a better opportunity for someone else, we expected them to go and take it, right? And we encouraged them to go and take it.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And so our job as business owners was always leveling up and making sure that we can provide enough opportunity that is going to give these guys roadmaps to be with us long term.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I'm like. Well, and the crazy thing is the amount of time that that happened. We're only talking three, four years. Yeah. Right. Like, and I think that's important for any listener that's trying to build their business or whatnot, scale it up. It's like. If you just apply these correct principles and do it repeatedly, it doesn't take long, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And there's a lot of us, Tommy included, that have struggled for years to get to that point. But once it clicked, once it worked, you know, I mean, the level of scale, the compound effect becomes real.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, it's pretty crazy how like everything really, you know, trickles over to one discipline always trickles over the other, right? Like when you, especially when you start getting your fitness in check and your relationships in check, right? Like that helps you be a better, a better coach. you know, influencer on the side of the business, right? Or in your society or whatever it may be.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
You brought up an incredible principle that we talk about. Don't price yourself to impress others. And that goes for what you pay and what you charge. Because it's the exact equivalent. What you charge, if you're trying to be the cheapest, all you're doing is trying to buy them by discounting to get the next customer, and they will go for the next person that's that much cheaper.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
You made it about price.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
you made it about price and the same thing goes for employees right like as as you said like when you make it all about compensation from a from a financial they'll go for the next 10 bucks or whatever else and it's like that is that is one thing that so many people get wrong pricing their product correctly and paying their people correctly and realizing that you compensate way more than just monetarily you can compensate them in culture and opportunity so much like
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, I mean, that was probably one of the biggest moves from a strategic standpoint that we did. Well, one, that we owned our own business. We were never going to fulfill for anybody else, right? Like if you wanted to come, like there were sales organizations all the time coming and saying, hey, will you just do our installs? And like that was a big like- All the time.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And we got approached six, seven times a week by sales organizations. That was a big no. The other one, as Daryl's talking about, is like we do not hire industry people. We don't because industry people are trained up incorrectly. Right. There's a lot of terrible business owners, a lot of bad cultures like everything else. And these people become entitled. A hundred percent.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And like, that's really, I mean, the culture that we've always been about in creating, like when we were creating SoulGen, it was always like focusing on the whole human approach. And if we can actually develop these people more than just their financial aspect, more than just a paycheck, right? Like help them be better spiritually, help them be better physically or whatnot.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like they're coming in and saying, well, I did this, this and this at this organization. So you owe me this based on my resume. Like, screw you. I don't owe you jack. Right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And so the cool thing is we never, not one of our salespeople had any experience selling solar. Zero. And so we trained them. Some of them had other experience. They sold cars. They sold this or that or the other. But it was like, man, if you were trained up in the door-to-door entitled industry, Utah-based group, we didn't want any part of you.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And so then we were taking these just raw, hungry kids that had great personalities that were making $14 an hour doing something else. How old were they? I mean, most of them in their low 20s.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, we created these people. Like, literally, we're taking people from the local coffee shop that are, like, playing barista while they're going to college.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
For us, it was all about like personality assessment, disc assessment, right? Like if we could go find high D, high I's, right? Like the dominant personality, as Tony Robbins says, he doesn't hire any salespeople without a D type of personality. Yeah. That dominant personality was always a winner for us. And so we'd bring these guys in. And regardless of what their background is, it didn't matter.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
If they had a deep personality, we could shape them into a salesperson. And we would put them through incredible boot camps. Right. Like there's guys that so to this day that now work for other organizations because we're no longer part of things that are like, man, that boot camp was the foundation to all of my success. Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like we put them through a two week just rigorous training stuff that we had learned knocking door to door for many years and become masters of the sale.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like the loyal, the trust that was built within our organization is absolutely incredible. So, I mean, I think that's probably one of the biggest keys that most business and entrepreneurs miss, right? Like they're just about solving financial problems rather than the other aspects.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Absolutely. So I think every entrepreneur should go and experience at least once, right? Yeah. Like going through the experience is a fantastic thing, right? I lost a little bit of hair.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I mean, fantastic is an interesting way to term it. It's tough, right? It's grueling, very long, intensive.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yes, yes. I mean, rubber glove to the extreme. But to have gone through it, you learn so much and you can bring so much to any other entrepreneur. Like, this is what you can do, what you expect. This is how I would have done it. differently. The way we would have pegged our deal would have been at the trailing 12 at the time of close. We would have got a lot more money out of the deal.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
But if I would do it again, I'm not sure I would go the PE route just because I've already checked that box. I think I've shifted into the more of hold phase, just long-term
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
nice sized chunk of equity in different businesses that I'm a board member of and can influence, but don't have these, uh, you know, P you know, you've been, you've been very lucky, like, and we thought we were lucky at, you know, at first, but, uh, became increasingly difficult to work with and everything else. But, uh,
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
But yeah, you know, had – if I had to do it over again, we would have negotiated a little bit better of a deal. I think we could have gotten more money. But at the same time, looking back – Would you have rolled more or less?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
We went through a formal process. I would have probably rolled a little bit less knowing what I know about the private equity group. Yeah. And, you know, so that's interesting. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
So it's interesting. We always refer to, well, I refer to Daryl as my work wife. Right? Like, we have to figure out how to work together the same way I have to work with my wife. Just no sex, right? Yep. And, you know, it's been interesting. We've known each other for a long time. We first met when I was, I think, 13. Daryl was 15. His oldest brother married my oldest sister. Wow. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yes. Ever.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Dude, I think you're one of the most generous, loving, non-douchey people where you could be douchey, right? Like you're in a position where you could clearly be douchey, right? You ride off into the sunset with the money and be like, screw you, team. Thanks for the, you know. Yeah, it's been a fun life. I found a great leader.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Right, yeah. Yeah, man, I think, you know, transitioning in business, like everybody has different experiences. There's so many different PE groups, strategics or whatnot. And to each his own. I think the hardest thing, I don't know if you experienced this, is just like allowing somebody else into the baby that you've created. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
You know, I think that that was probably the hardest thing for me and that I did not realize would affect me as emotionally as it did. I like this is the baby that literally was birthed out of my garage. Like this is the thing that I have built strategically on purpose by design. And now there's other people coming in calling shots that I don't agree with. Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And that's that's probably the most difficult thing about letting go. Well, here here's the thing.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
So that's where the initial introduction, but we didn't have this immediate connection of best friends or anything like that. In fact, we didn't hang out, I think, what, six years later? Eight years later?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Well, dude, it was crazy. I mean, we were told we were going to be able to close in 30 to 40 days, and it took 120 days. And that additional 90.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah. So you were 21, you were 23. Yeah, yeah. So I was 21. I come home off a two-year mission, right? And Daryl was like, hey, dude, come sell with me. And immediately, we got this really good flow as far as balancing out each other, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
EBITDA. Bro. Like, it was an extra 10 million. Of EBITDA? And trailing 12. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Thank goodness for a half percent cut yesterday, baby. Yeah, that helped. Let's go.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
We do, it's real.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
That's the crazy thing in real estate all the time. If you go buy an apartment complex, guys, try selling on a pro forma of what it could be. If you raise the rents and you change all these things, it's worth this much. We're like, well, why don't you do it?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, so, I mean, for the last, you know, almost 20 years we've been doing business together in one aspect or another. We had two divorces along the way, which I think any good relationship has to go through hard times, right? Girl, you're in your third marriage. No, I'm kidding. But, yeah, I mean, we broke up from a business standpoint a couple different times, like didn't talk to each other.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
But then on top of that is like there is a right fit for every single person on this earth somewhere, right? They have a value that they can bring to society. And if they're not bringing it to us, by not getting rid of them, you are costing them their real opportunity and value. And like gift in life, right? Like if they are an artist stuck doing an accounting job for you, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like you were screwing them by not setting them free.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And it's crazy the people that want to go in and change those pay structures because these guys are making too much when they're actually performing and producing. Especially management. Oh, it's crazy.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And sometimes they could be great. You're going to make less money.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Follow me on Instagram is probably the best, at ChrisLeeQB, quarterback. Where are you at? Are you mainly on Facebook, Instagram? What's the best spot?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And, you know, somewhat LinkedIn. It's funny. Us, like, 40-year-olds, the guys in the 40s, right? Like, we're still on Facebook.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
We made that transition from – I'm not on Snapchat.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
We went from MySpace to Facebook. So it's, like, hard for us to make another transition, right? You know, it's one of those things with my family. What about you, Daryl?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I think the longest point was, what, 18 months or two years?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I always give Daryl a hard time. I'm like, bro, get on social.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
D-A-R-Y-L. D-A-R-Y-L. And then it's C. C. Kelly. Kelly.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I mean, one that many people have heard of, but I always go back to is Atomic Habits by James Cliff. I mean, dude, every time I read that book, it gets my mind right. And I'm reminded of, right, like habit chains and everything else. I'm like, ah. Got to get back in it, and I always sharpen right back up. Dude, I throw that thing in Audible for one year or for one hour, and I'm dialed.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I'm ready to take on the world and just be the most disciplined human being in the world.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
That's so good.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And like, dude. Send it to me.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah, and I think some of the struggles is, like, I'm a big voice in the room. You know how it is. Oh, yeah. Yeah, me and you. We're, like, pushing each other.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Be cognizant of your decisions.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And your emotions. Yeah, I love that.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Shine.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
He's a great guy. We actually flew him out and met directly with our management team. He's a genius.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
We've got two alphas just. And so Daryl has some alpha in him. It's just not as crazy as me. And so I think some of the struggles over the time is like, I've, I steal a lot of the limelight, right? I'm the loud one. I'm the crazy one in the room. Even though Daryl, like if I'm out of the room, Daryl is loud and crazy. Just, you know, it's, it's hard to compete with a Tommy or.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I'm going to know Saturday. Dude, 10%? Jeez. Dang, Gina. I mean, what was it, a year and a half ago you were? 26. Really? Less than a year ago. That's incredible. That's incredible. By the way, he's got a great doctor that I did a call with. We need to do a group consult.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Oh, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
I mean, we have a tranny as we are. I mean, how is that the health person? Okay. I'm sorry. You win for it. I'm sorry, but, man. Dude, that's a health issue. Yeah, I agree. Not about you, brother.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Well, I also think it's just like being out of whack any one direction. Like the guy that only cares about his physical appearance and that's it, like spends six hours in the gym, has a terrible family life, barely pays gym membership or whatever else, right? I think there's that, right? And so what we have been taught on the opposite side is like that's bad, so don't.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
We actually just rebranded. What is it now?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
It's the old habit stack, right? Like you start with one thing, it domino effects into everything else. Stress is the inability of action.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And I think when you're taking action in the gym and being disciplined at the dinner table, it's much easier to address these hard things that cause stress, right? Like go and have the hard conversation.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Oh, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
They're totally fine with taking the action. That's awesome. What is your final thought? You know, for me, I've thought a lot about just like the why, right? Like everybody knows about like, yeah, you got to have a why that motivates you and everything else. But I think more important than that, you need to have a why that's unique, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like most of us try to create whys that are somebody else's why. I need the house, the car, this. Like we define success based off of other people's parameters rather than our own. And I think really getting detailed, like for me what's changed my life is when I put detail to the reason why I want a certain dollar amount. Like what am I going to do with those dollars?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Like what does that actually mean for me if I have a billion dollars in the bank account? Not just to say I have a billion dollars, but like what am I doing with that billion dollars? Like what type of charity events am I running? What am I doing in my community? How am I involved in my family's life and everything else because of these type of things?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And doing the things for me, not to impress anybody else. And for some people, living in a cottage that's off-grid somewhere in Kansas may be it. And other people, it's going to be a $10 million condo in New York or whatever it may be. And getting to know yourself and what actually brings you joy and happiness and everything else, Sorry, that's my diabetes going off over here.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
So just getting to that and really understanding yourself and being driven that way rather than just be like, oh, Daryl has this. I should probably want that. Or Tommy's done this. And I think it's really easy, especially as a listener to the show. They see three guys that have accomplished a lot of really cool things to be like, oh, I need to go do that or I want to go do that. It's like...
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Maybe. Like, is that the thing that drives you, that pushes you, that motivates you, that's going to give you true fulfillment in life? And if it is, then get an exact detailed plan and go and make it happen.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Thank you, guys.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Next Level Pros. Let's go. Come on.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Right. It's very, very, very hard because they're like – We rub people raw in a wrong – Oh, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yep.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And I think that's, Daryl's been my strategic advantage. I mean, it doesn't appear, you've never had like a right-hand guy, right? Me and Adam were like,
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
But he's no longer involved. He's no longer involved. Right. So for Daryl, Daryl's always kind of been my filter, right? Because, as you pointed out, it's very easy for a guy that has our type of personality to just be like, got this great idea. Let's run. Right. And so I'd go to Darrell. I'm like, dude, got this great idea. And right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
He, he understands that like only like one in 20, we should actually go and implement. Right.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Oh, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Oh, yeah, dude. I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but, yeah, in our organization, right, if something doesn't go right, it's my fault.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
17.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
17. So it's kind of been your thing for a very long time, right? Like the one thing saying no to pretty much everything along the way.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. And I think there's so many different paths to success, not one person, right? Like I can't line my path to success and say like, this is the reason why for you or me or whatnot.
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
And so like you 17 years for us, it was like, we said yes to so many different things, so many different industries, so many different ideas for so many years until it was like, all right, let's take everything that we've learned, concentrate it into one and just go. Right. And, and, And it's amazing to your point, right?
Next Level Pros
#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
When you can say no to everything and yes to just one thing and just go deep and wide, it's incredible what you can accomplish in a very short period of time.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
One problem is you do not have visits. You have a cost of marketing, a cost of acquisition that scales, and you have $23,000 extra from this last month. The best advice I could give to you is spend $23,000.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so what's his salary a month?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay, so yeah, $135, but then that's not fully burdened, so probably another 22%.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Just everything that goes into it.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
$200,000? Got it. Okay, so, which means your break-even with him is $16,666. And so, which means, so is Goff just completely 28% of visits? Yes, but she... No salary? No.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
All right. But this is interesting to look at like, okay, at what point is Mizzou cheaper than Goff? Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so have you, have you calculated this?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. So, so Mizzou is making 28% of two 50, right? She's making essentially $70 a patient. Is that right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So, sorry, I said Mizzou. I meant Goff. Yep, Goff is making $70 a patient. And if Mizzou was on the same exact structure visiting, he saw 130 patients. he would have made $9,100. Instead, you paid him $16,666. Yes, I'm painfully aware. Okay. But if you were to pay Goff fully at $400... patients, right? Like if you got Goff completely cranking, you would pay Goff $28,000. Yes. Okay.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So essentially your break even a win Goff actually becomes more expensive. So you take his, uh, his, uh, salary divided by 70 is at $238 or 238 appointments a month. Does that make sense? Oh, totally. Okay. So, so essentially golf will be cheaper all the way up to 238 and then she becomes more expensive and, and Missoula will be more expensive up until they hit 238 and then he becomes cheaper.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Makes sense.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So which, I guess if you, if you're looking at these compensation structures, which one would you rather have?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Exactly. But my question would be, how hard is it to recruit people on just purely a percentage?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I'm looking at a P&L from January 1 to March 31. It looks like you guys had a net income of negative or a net operating income of negative $144,000.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So is there a better structure than either one of these combined?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So I do believe there is a better one.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I was just wondering.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
What your thoughts are.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, from a from a recruiting standpoint, like a base salary is always going to be the strongest way to be able to bring in more applicants or more, you know, potential people that you can select from. Right. And so, I mean, what you're doing with Mizzou.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
is probably overpaying right like from from a standpoint where where you could probably come in and say hey look we will give you a base of call it eighty thousand dollars and then a and then a percentage of production right so like like i'm just going to throw this out there right like if you were to do because right now you're essentially if mizzou oh
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
continues doing this exact at 160 times $70 times 12, right? You're paying, you're paying her $135,000 is, and are you giving her anything else besides that? Or is it just the 28%?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. Which is totally understandable. So I'm looking at something like this and like, okay, what if I were to provide like $80,000 base, right? And that way I attract more applicants in, and I'm just shooting from the hip. I haven't even studied this right now.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
We'll see if this thing masks, right? So if I'm looking at, okay, 80%, but then I could do maybe a 10% profit share. So then let's see where that would get us. If I was at $160 times $25 times 12, right? So yeah, that would actually put, this actually masks... So that would put us at $128,000 versus $135,000, what you have are currently structured at. And I will say like $160,000 is a low...
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so obviously that, that hurt cash quite a bit.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So, and, and that's, that's the beauty of, of what you have. So if you're at 200 times, that would be, it would be $25 a visit because you're paying them 10%. Right. You following me? Yep. Okay. So that would be an additional $5,000. Okay. Times 12, 60, that would put her at $140,000. Yeah. So there you go. That's,
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So I agree. Like there's a give and take. And I think there's a key thing to be learned here just for anybody that's watching the show is like, Money, money is only one aspect to the solution, right? Like you've got to, they got to be able to make enough money, right? They got to be able to pay their bills and see opportunity and everything like that. But there's a lifestyle aspect, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
If they're working at a hospital being worked to the bone, how many days a week are they working at a hospital?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Five days guaranteed. Oh, for sure. And here we're talking about like a four-day work week at capacity is 400. Yeah, yeah. Right? And so like we're not even talking about like under this situation of 200 a month, you're still only hitting 50% capacity. So you're still sitting around. You're still not, you know, like running around crazy. And you're working four days a week.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so around this time, while you're going through like this cash crunch, um, I believe you had reached out to me or how did, how did we get connected?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Like you've got some benefit there. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so like, okay, what is this happy medium where we can create this, you know, structure? And maybe the base needs to be higher. Maybe the base is, you know, $100,000 versus like, I mean, essentially for Mizzou, you have a base of almost 200 grand because you threw in all these extras, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So if you're at $100,000 with like a 10% profit share, then there's this additional incentive to be able to go and get it or maybe even lowering the base back to $80,000 and bumping up the profit share 12%, 13% or something along those lines. Um, and, and that's not even profit share. That's rev share. There's also the opportunity to do profit share. Right. And you understand the difference.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. Um, you know, profit share would be even more important, right? Because now once you're covering all your basis and actually making money, if they have the ability to share in that profit of that one clinic, uh, or that one facility like that, it can be highly motivating.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, so they would make less money at which one?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Profit sharing at $200 a month versus making their 28%. Yeah. Right. And so I think one of the key things here is understanding, although you want buy-in from these people and you want them to run good profitable business, you also don't want them to have to worry about that. This is kind of one of the things that we talked about off set, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
The fact that sometimes as entrepreneurs ourselves, we want everybody else to be entrepreneurs. And I don't know about you, but I've been burned a lot in that type of situation having that expectation.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, yeah. Trent, have you ever had that type of experience where you're, like, expecting somebody to operate like a business owner, but they're not? Absolutely. Yeah, share with us.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Can I give you a recommendation there?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Some, some other, uh, structures that I've seen in the medical world that work really well is like where you have a quota that you have to hit and everything that's out over and above that quota, you get a, a bonus for, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. And so it's, and essentially the way that you would, you would structure it is like, okay, you, you look at like what their salary is and what the quota has to be to basically compensate them at that. And then anything over and above that, you give them a spiff and, and,
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And the reality is because you have really no any cost of goods sold, like every additional dollar collected, like you can incentivize them a lot.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, you could I'm not suggesting you do this, but you literally could give them 80 percent of the revenue and you would still be more profitable past that quota.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. Because up until this point, you're only hitting that quota. You're paying your bills. You're making your money. And so like this is so important, like in any business, understand your breakeven. Like once you're at breakeven, every dollar over and above breakeven is so, so, so important.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so I think coming up with something along the line that's creative, where once they've hit quota, they have like this nice little bonus and it could come in like patches, like
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
for every like five visits over and above quota you get x dollars or whatever else and so then there's even like stairs it's not just like every single one they get extra money it's like oh yeah if i hit this and i get more and i get this you know type type deal and they're really pushing to to make sure that those things are would you do that by visits or by dollars like collected um well the the real the real question is do the doctors have influence over the dollars collected
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, awesome. So I know that was around February. And so at this point, you're negative cash flow. You're struggling. You're listening to different podcasts, trying to figure it out on your own. One, why would someone in a position like that even join our community? If one, you can't even afford to pay your own bills. Why would you fork out money to join?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
If they sell orthotics, if they sell CBD, if they push for surgery.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I mean, the more alignment that you can create with the business alignment, right? Like if the business makes more money on a certain product or certain service, creating the incentives and the alignment with that is absolutely important.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Do you know your current cost of acquisition?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
$50 to get one phone call.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. I have to imagine that the booking rate should be extremely high as long as you pick up the phone.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, if based on what I'm seeing here, you're operating at best at 40% capacity, which means you should have openings tomorrow.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So when you when you say $50 a call, these are $50 for a call from somebody looking for an appointment.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And I guess walk us through what you had to overcome to be able to make that jump and what it's looked like since then.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I mean, the reality is if it scales at the exact same rate, you should have no budget.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Until you hit capacity. Capacity is the only determining factor of budget.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yep.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, so here's the thing is, how much can you afford to lose?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
There you go. And so this is the way I would look at it. If... I have to imagine, okay, if I'm getting a phone call that I'm booking 80%. I have to imagine that. And if I'm not, then it's some basic twists. Personally, I've never called a doctor and shopped.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Unless they couldn't see you. Unless they can't see you. Right. But again, that's not shopping. Right, that's not shopping. That's not shopping. That's being turned down by the doctor. Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so, like, you're in the business where there literally is no shopping. It's a need, and if you can fulfill my need. Right. Right? And so, I've got to imagine 80% booking rate. Mm-hmm. Okay? Mm-hmm. So if I'm getting 20 calls per thousand, which means I'm getting 16 appointments per thousand dollars.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
That means our cost of acquisition is 1000 divided by 16. Okay. Now, this isn't 100% accurate because I don't know for a fact that it's an 80% booking rate, but I have to imagine that right now. My hypothesis is going to be, as a scientist, I'm going to say, look, this thing is probably going to book at 80%. Because I have the capacity, I can see people tomorrow, the next day, and the next day.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I've got to be there. So if I'm at $62, that means out of $250, my cost of acquisition is 25%. Okay. Makes sense. Yep. Okay. So which means what, how much is it going to take to fully get me to capacity? Okay.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. Let's so, so if I have full capacity is let's, let's say full capacity is 300. Okay.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
like because it's not but like you can move it around and make it work or whatever so that would be 900 visits a month between the three clinics okay one's open five one's open two one's open four but i think i yeah for the most part we can get to 300 average across per unit right yes you there i'm there okay And now we have this last month, you did $160, $290, $333, $433.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Don't do it.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So minus $433 equals 467 appointments to get to that $900 capacity times $62.50. That's your marketing budget.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
If you broke even next month, okay. So- You have, the one problem is you do not have visits. You have a marketing, you have a marketing, cost of marketing, a cost of acquisition that scales. And you have $23,000 extra from this last month. The best advice I could give to you is spend $23,000, okay?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay, where else can you spend money and make money in this business?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So let's work through this. That is scary, Chris. Because I think it's important. Okay, it's important to address the real things that hold us back as entrepreneurs, okay? It's not the numbers. It's the feelings. It's the mentality. It's the, right? Because like... from a pure logic standpoint, you were losing $50,000 a month. And you were like, that sucked, but you survived.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So if you went from losing $50,000 a month to making zero, losing zero, would you be okay with that? So why would you be scared of zero again?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Which is valid, but so you don't even necessarily have to bring $23,000. Here's the issue, though. You you paid a thousand dollars and you got 20 phone calls. Right. Then you doubled it. Cool. But you really only put a thousand dollars at risk. Right. And so like what can you afford to put at risk right now? You can afford to put twenty three thousand dollars at risk. Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
You don't even have to do all 23, but let's get a little bit crazier because the opportunity cost is what's killing you. So the fact that you did...
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
434 appointments. So 900. You have 466 appointments. That's your opportunity cost. So not getting those booked. I see where you're going with this. Cost you $116,000 last month.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So, like, that's what it costs you. And that's not even at the 400 capacity. That's at a 300 capacity, right? If we add in 400 capacity, that's an extra $75,000. Yeah, yeah. Right? And so, like, literally, you're somewhere between $100,000 and $190,000 of opportunity costs that literally should be showing up on your P&L. Yeah, perfect.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Per month on your P&L. So, like, are you more scared of potentially losing $23,000 or the fact that you're missing out on $120,000 every single month?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Worst case scenario, your cost of acquisition goes from $62 to $150, right? You're only booking 30% of your calls. Your systems are breaking and whatnot. even then you're still making more money. Like for you not to cover your marketing spend would mean that you would have to like only book 25% of your calls. Or somehow your cost per call just doesn't scale at all.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
But again, you don't even necessarily need to go to $23,000. Let's take that 2,000 bucks and go to 10. Let's spend $8,000 more this next month. What does $8,000 look like for you? $8,000 divided by $62 a call gets you an extra 129 visits this next month, which puts in another $32,000 into your pocket. Yeah. And so by putting at risk $8,000, you're going to make an extra $32,000.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry, I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby. So fast forward, we're sitting here on May 6th. How did the month of April close out?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
It's like sitting with Rayman.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
This is the stuff that gets me like, you're sitting on a freaking gold mine here.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, and you're like beating yourself up over like, oh, this guy's not working or I got culture issues or whatnot. Like, man, I would much rather be like address this and then go address like like this is science stuff that if you can get this down, opening a fourth, fifth, 50th, 60th, 70th clinic all of a sudden becomes extremely scalable.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Now you're sitting on a multi hundred million dollar empire. Right. All because you understand like the basics of these are my cost per call. These are my booking rates. This is this is exactly what my cost per appointment. The average ticket, everything goes into it. Now, when we say 250 bucks, is that 250 bucks that's collectible or 250 bucks that's billable?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, going back to video game theory, like if you're playing if you're playing in a video game and you have no like scoreboard, there's no scoreboard, no destination, no end of the level. Right. Like you literally do not know what the point of the game is. Like you're wandering around aimlessly. And that's exactly how it works in business.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
People have to have a clear like direction and way to know, am I winning? Am I losing? How am I being measured? Right. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. And then you can go and track the right people and really they're no longer a liability. They're an asset to the business.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. Versus where you're spending. So previously, like when you were losing $50,000 a month, how much were you spending in marketing?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And back then, what was your marketing strategy? Was it just hope and a prayer that you get referrals over?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
But also somewhat of a hope and a prayer, right? It's like it works.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
You hope that they can bring it in. It's not very measurable. It's not scalable, right? She may be good at her one thing, but you can't all of a sudden say, hey, I want three more of her.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Without having to go through a whole lot more training where you have like these incredible metrics like through Google where it's literally just increased budget.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Amber, thanks for joining us today on the show.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
That's exciting.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I love it. And you know, it's, it's crazy because you are in an industry where there's not a lot of entrepreneurs and you know, I am constantly frustrated. In fact, I've been, I've been trying to, I have an elective surgery that I've been trying to get done and I literally can't get a doctor to call me back. Like, like the health field is wild to me. Like I've been trying to do this for 12 months.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So you go from... essentially losing $50,000 a month to positive 23. That's a $73,000 swing. What were some of the main things that you implemented over that time? And then once you answer that, we'll dive into like more of like, okay, what can we do now? What is the next big moves that we got to take?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Not a foot problem. I'm trying to be able to not have any babies anymore.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I'm sure you do.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
But yeah, again, it is the craziest industry to me. In no other industry, you have people begging to be able to give you service and people turning you away. Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Or not returning your phone calls. And so like like understanding that that's your competition. All you got to do is just play this thing like a game and you'll be crushing it.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So a couple things. One, up until now, you haven't known your numbers. And two, you don't even quite know your numbers. You don't know your booking rate. You don't know these things. If these people don't know how to win, you're not going to be able to retain them. And once they understand how to win, if you can create incentivization structures that actually...
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I'll create alignment with winning, right? Like, Hey, you maintain a 90% booking rate. You get X bonus or X, you know, based off of how many appointments we do. Like, I mean, these are people that you can like, you think about the two ends of the business, the front end of the booking. And the back end of the fulfillment, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Like it's literally your, your people that are booking are your salespeople because once somebody shows up to an appointment, like they don't need to be sold.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. Unless they're being upsold on a product, that's your doctor. Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so the same way as you'd incentive in a, in a normal type business that you incentivize salespeople, you can incentivize these, these front end people. So now all of a sudden you don't only have to attract in minimum wage type talent because think about it. We, we talked about if you got up to 900 appointments a month, how much more money is that?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
It was like $112,000 a month. Yeah. Okay. With $112,000 a month, do you think you can carve out a little bit for three front office ladies?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right? So, like, I mean, an extra $1,000 a month to each of those people that are running that would be... Yeah, it would be huge. It would be huge. And that is a small fraction. Now, there's that option. But then the other option is artificial intelligence. I mean, AI answering service. Not like your 20 years ago... AI, which is like press one, press two, book this. Did I hear yes?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
But yeah, what were some of those like key things that went from negative 50 grand to positive 23?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Did I hear no? No, it's like literally AI voices in a position now where they can have a conversation and be structured exactly how to get them booked. And so I think those are your two options and things like really understand your opportunity costs with these people. It's really easy to go cheap. Because you're like, oh, they're not doing anything.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
They're punching numbers into a computer and they're answering phone calls and just doing that. But understand the opportunity cost. Right. If they aren't booking, so one, you've got to be able to measure them.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And if they're not performing to those measurements, how much is that costing you?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
If I get a call from a doctor, a text from a doctor, I know, hey, you still want to get that surgery done? Reply, yes, for tomorrow at 3?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Excited to have you. So Amber, can you give us a little background? I know you own podiatry clinics, and can you give us a little bit more color behind that?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So a couple things to think about. Right now you have, so front desk people, is it just one per location?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. So think about this. You made $23,000 last month, okay? Mm-hmm. $23,000 in cash. And we've already said, Hey, we're going to allocate an additional eight of that to marketing. Okay. That leaves you with $15,000 in growth capital.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So if I took, and how much are you paying these front desk ladies or people?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
20, 20 bucks an hour. So they're making 40 grand a year, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. If I went and I said, look, instead of, uh, hiring somebody that makes 40 grand a year, I'm going to hire somebody and I pay 65 grand a year. Okay. So 65 grand a year is going to be an extra 12 bucks an hour, which is going to be roughly about 15, $1,500 a month, $1,600 more a month. Okay. So from the 15 grand, I take $1,600 a location. So that's five grand, 4,800. Okay.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Now I have $10,000 worth of growth capital. I got three way more qualified people running my front desk that know their metrics, know their incentive. You train them up on how to- How to do outbound. What I would be looking at is not even necessarily people that have medical experience. You could be like loan processors. People that have been in the mortgage space. Friendly loan processors.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Friendly debt collectors. I'm saying loan processors on the back end that are used to going and collecting paperwork and gathering this stuff and doing outbound and those type of things. How much more could you get from a $65,000 outbound? or a year employee versus a $40,000 a year employee. And now, yes, it costs you an extra $5,000 a month, but again, what's the opportunity cost?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
The opportunity cost is $112,000 a month right now.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Every single time. Like, we lost 100. Like, yes, we made 23, but we lost 112. Like, that's how every business owner should be looking at their business. Always, always, always, like, what are my capacities? What did I actually miss on, even though the bottom line shows positive production, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Because then it allows you to make strategic decisions like, I'm gonna spend more money on my front-facing people that actually drive our whole reputation, our whole booking, our whole schedule. Because ultimately, there's two things that lead to your appointments not being filled. Marketing, And your CSRs. Right. That's it. Totally. That's it. Yeah. I would also say, return customers as well.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So the doctors, which cultural fit would be huge. Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Can I can I give you a recommendation there?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Don't do that.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And the reason I say don't do that, the most important thing you can focus on right now is filling your calendar.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
That's it.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Once you're there, now work on refinement. Orthotic sales, up sales, those are all just slight training or whatever. Because, for example, how much do you sell an orthotic for?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. But how much?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. And what do you pay for that?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. So you get the full cost covered.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. Awesome. So maybe there is, I mean, obviously that is sweet.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
That is a sweet opportunity. But like what things could you do that don't even require training that would allow, like in your rooms, do you have a thing that says ask your doctor about orthotics?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Like, literally, without even having to... like implement better training with your people, you, you could do some things in your process that are just really simple, right? A couple of posters, a couple of like, like ask your doctor about this. I mean, literally doctors don't have to do work anymore. Like I watch television. It tells me what medicines to ask my doctor about.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I go in, I say, Hey, can you do this? I consult with Google. I consult with Chad GBT and literally I come in and I just get a prescription from the doctor.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so figuring out ways to be able to do that. But yes, obviously there's a huge opportunity there. But opportunity number one, get the calendar filled. Opportunity number two, figure out how to sell more orthotics.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I think there's a lot of opportunity with like Facebook and different things like that. Like, hey, feet are aching or whatnot. It is an interesting business because it's very inquiry based, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
People feel something, they are looking for it. I think I wouldn't be lean heavy on Facebook, Instagram, whatnot, but I would always have it as a part of what I do. Just so that... Because people may be feeling pain while they're scrolling, right? And then they see that and like, oh, yeah, I should get that looked at. This is going to be able.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So I think there's an opportunity there, but I think most of it's going to be driven by an inquiry base.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yes, like that is a huge niche, especially if somebody's coming in to buy it and you have an 80% margin, which is what it sounds like.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I think there's a huge opportunity there. You should find all the costs.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I would definitely be like, hey, have you looked into orthotics? Most are covered by insurance. Contact Dr. Mineo today or whatever.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I would, I would test it, you know, a thousand bucks a month or whatever. Yeah. Would I, what I would call like a decent test.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So get it, get it rocking and rolling. I mean, that's really only 30 bucks a day. Right. Like, and, but the beauty with all of these things is like, you can turn it on and turn it off.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Like if you turn on, you say, Hey, let's go $10,000 this month in Google. And in a week you haven't seen a huge increase in, in call volume, cut it. Yeah, okay. Like, don't just sit and wait until the $10,000 are spent. Like, these are things that should work or don't work. Yeah, okay.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
It's not like you give it time, let it, you know, like a branding play is something you have to give it time, right? Like, hey, we put up a billboard and I didn't get a call right away. Oh, but you got to let people see it six or seven times or whatever else. Digital marketing is not that way. Digital marketing should yield a result the minute it starts eating in the budget.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, definitely there's all different kinds. Like frankly, this is the way I think about anything. If it works, use it. And one thing I've learned about marketing is like it's really hard to judge without testing.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Like, I don't know. And like today we're, we're sitting, we're sitting over some metrics that are obviously when, when you're talking about holding these people accountable, it's really what, I mean, holding them accountable to these type of productivity, right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Like preconceived notions, like the perception on whether something works or whether it doesn't kills more businesses than actually testing in those things. And frankly, there's certain industries that just hit way better on certain marketing mediums.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so so it's really hard for me to say like, yeah, TV is going to work great because I don't know. I've never ran a podiatry clinic. So I but it could be like that. These 60 and 70 year olds that are watching, you know, Fox News and baseball and everything else. They see a foot commercial that could be your primary audience. And that makes up 90 percent of the viewers.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I love it. I love it. Amber, we appreciate you traveling this way, coming, sharing with us your experience. Last but not least, for anybody that's watching this now, that's hung on, by the way, if you've hung on this long, we appreciate you. We love you hanging on. What can you share with them how Next Level has changed your business?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Until next time.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at some things like, okay, what is your break-even, right? $100,000 a month is kind of what we call the nut that you have to cover to be able to start making money. Understanding, like, your gross margin of 95%, that your average revenue per visit is $250, what your total visits were last month versus this month, that type of thing.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Like, all these metrics are really where it becomes fun, right, to be able to, like... pull the levers and really just understand the game, understand the rules, understand the logic, understand like when I do this, it results in this versus just kind of like shooting from the gut or from the head.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
That's amazing.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So, um, one thing I'm not seeing on here and I'm interested to know if you, if you know about your business as far as like capacity, uh, do you, do you know your current like capacity metrics?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Um, so how many, how many days a week are you open right now?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So you've got a lot of interesting things and I'll just like kind of point them out and then we're going to dive into them. So like one, up until you joined the Next Level community, you were losing money and we've seen some really cool things and we're going to talk a little bit about that, how you've been able to turn that around, make some money.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
But she's only ever in for four days a week?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And when you say fully staffed, are they fully staffed the other three days?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Even though you're only seeing patients two days a week?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Hey, guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show. Right. Yeah, so it's interesting. So you have the capacity right now, like from a facility standpoint, to have 24 visits a day? Per clinic. Per clinic. Per clinic.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And if there were more doctors at those locations, could you see more than 24?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, because I think it's important, like you're in the capacity game, right? Like what do you have capacity to fill and like what percentage of capacity are you hitting? And so when you're talking about that you have like a clinic that you have two different rooms and you could be doing 48 a day, the only limiting factor at that point is what?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Volume of patients, but then also a doctor, right? Because you don't have a doctor. Yes. So the first limiting factor would be a doctor and the second limiting factor is like getting to capacity.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. So if if like what I'm I'm looking at these numbers right now. So you have your three different doctors, your husband, Dr. Mineo, which in March did 160. Mizzou did 94 and Goff did 153. And then that was in March. And then you look like month over month. You had about the same same type of visits from now. Mizzou increased from 94 up to 130. So that was almost a 50 percent increase.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And the golf was was about the same. And so really where you're if you just take one hundred and sixty and you said the average clinics open four days a week.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. Let's, let's call it, let's call it four. I guess, I guess the, the best way to, to look at it. And so if you're four days a week, right. And, and you're, uh, times 4.3 weeks a month, right. You're 17.2 days, essentially a month that, that you're, that you're open. Okay. And a full capacity times 24 would be 412.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
But yeah, so you've got some really, really cool things going on in the business. Can you give us like, give us a little bit more color? So you joined the Next Level community back in, was it February?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So I think an easy round number would be like max capacity for one doctor four days a week would be 400 visits. Yeah. And so if you're just comparing the numbers against that, like your top producing doctor is doing 160, right? And you said Goff, she's full time not doing surgeries, right? Correct. So like her only metric is this, right? There's no other metric.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
And so essentially, and if they're seeing 24 a day, are they still able to have breaks and lunch? Like, is that sustainable really to hit 24?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I'm a chitchatter. But an average of 15 is doable.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Because my understanding, the doctor isn't the only person seeing this patient, right? Like they have somebody coming in beforehand, checking them in, a nurse type thing.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. Right. And so, you know, it's interesting because, yeah, if you look at look at Goff, she is essentially running at 40 percent capacity. Right. And so there's obviously a huge, huge opportunity because and then how is their compensation structured?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay, cool. And up until February, what was taking place in the business?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Percentage of collections.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
28%. Okay. So essentially what you're leaving on the table is 72% because outside of that, you really, do you have any variable costs? Any like with an appointment per patient?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
I mean, that's additional opportunities. That's not, yeah, that's not from like an appointment. Right.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right, so it's interesting to look at it, right? So if you increased capacity by 10%, going from 40% to 50%, right? So that would be another 40 visits a month for Goff times $250 times 72%, right? Because she would be getting the other 28%. So that would be an additional $7,200 a month just by increasing. Now, if you were able to get them, so that's for every 10%.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
So to be able to do that times six, because essentially to get her to full capacity, like a full capacity clinic would look like an extra $43,000 a month net.
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. So it's interesting to look at just what that is. And then you got somebody like Mizzou. They're not getting paid for additional production. Is that right?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Why, why would he be motivated to do that?
Next Level Pros
#147: Losing $50,000 Every Month to $23,000 Profit in 60 Days / Increase Profits / Next Level Pros Podcast
Is there any other incentive plan or production structure?
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Like if I came in as a salesperson, I knew exactly how much money the manager was making and this, that, and the other. And that didn't bother me because there was a clear path of how I could become there. And so Todd was always very, like created clear paths in his organization. There weren't hidden pay scales, right? He wasn't paying one guy this and somebody else in the same type of position.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
It was like, if you wanted to get paid more, you had to do X, Y, and Z. And then also anytime that the company was struggling, he was very transparent of like, hey, this is the battle that we're going against in the business. So like one of my favorite stories was actually before I came to work for Todd.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
where the crash of 08 started happening and the markets were, there was not a lot of cash in the market in 2009, 2010. And in the summer sales game, you pay an upfront check and then what's called a backend check. And at the end of that sales season, Vivint didn't have enough money to pay the backend checks.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And where a lot of other business owners would have gone and tried to figure out a solution to get the money or whatever else and just not even let their people know that they were in trouble. Todd chose a different path. He went to everybody and said, look, we don't have enough money to pay you. But we are growing this business. This is the vision, the direction, and everything else.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
He said, if you guys will sacrifice and invest your back-end checks into the business, there will be an equity upside that you'll be able to benefit from. And it was something like 90% of the sales force chose to invest. They could have taken the money. He was good for the money. He would figure out a way to get paid.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
But it was like 90% of them that took their paychecks and put it towards investing in the business. And a couple years later, Vivint sold for $2 billion. But that, for me, was just such a testament of trusting your people, being authentic with your people, and creating transparency of what's working, what's not working. Because the flip side, when my first business failed,
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I was everything but transparent right like to the outside world we were crushing it to my employees we were crushing it everything else but behind the scenes we couldn't make payroll and everything else and I was just scrambling and doing everything else then ultimately it came to an
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
uh, ahead where we ended up having to file bankruptcy and it really caught a lot of people off guard because they didn't understand the struggle that the business was going through. And so, um, I think that one lesson taught me a ton about creating culture and buy-in and everything else.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And, and so it's something that I've, uh, ultimately really, really, really strived to apply across my organizations. The other thing is just from a pure business strategy standpoint, like, um,
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
You don't have to pay the most to pay the most, meaning a lot of times people in sales, they look for the highest percentage of commission that they can make versus the total compensation that they can make because great organizations take money that they would have paid to the sales rep and put it into the support that allows the salesperson to go and sell and produce more, which ultimately means more money.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so it's better for a company to have big margins and be able to support the customer experience, which means the sales rep and internal customer experience, the employee, but also the end user. And so I'm a big believer behind margin. Charge a lot, pay a little bit less. create an opportunity to be able to go and grow.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And there's more compensation than just a paycheck to anybody that works within the organization. You can compensate through helping them develop physically, economically with their associations and their spirituality. And just really providing a pathway to help them get there. And so those are a lot of the lessons that I learned from Todd.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I served a mission for my church which required a lot of door knocking for two years and then ever since then been involved in different sales industries, sold pest control, sold cars, sold alarm systems and automation systems and ultimately solar systems. And so all those products besides cars I sold door to door in some facet. and had initially started out doing it to pay for college.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Oh, good question. So big fan of education. But not traditional education. Sorry, teacher. So, no, there's definitely been some benefits. I learned a lot from different teachers growing up, K through 12. Had a lot of really good influences. A lot of really bad influences as well. But, you know, there was definitely a level of discipline.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
But I think a lot of times the traditional education system gets a lot of things wrong. Um, you know, in school, they call it cheating in real world. They call it collaboration, you know? So like.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
the school system if i was going to go and fix the school system i would encourage a whole lot more what they call cheating right group projects working on a test finding solutions together also utilizing the tools that are real life right i was i was told all growing up like that it's not like you're going to be able to have a calculator in your back pocket yet here we are.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And today's society is saying, don't use chat GBT because it's a form of cheating. And I'm like, dude, this is the world's greatest tool and we're encouraging our students not to use it. So, you know, I think, I think, uh, the, the school system is a little antiquated, antiquated, uh, and there's a lot of room for improvement, but I love to learn. College taught me how to learn.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I did not need the definition of a piece of paper to say that I have now learned enough. In fact, when I dropped out of college to start my first business, I had 165 credits. You need 120 credits to graduate. So I had learned enough to graduate, but I did not have all the box checked to be able to get a diploma.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so, you know, where the world would have been like, oh, just go finish and everything else like, no, that's stupid. Like if I learned everything I need to learn, like why would I go and learn things that aren't applicable to what I'm trying to do? Now, since college, since 2015, I've spent over a million dollars on my personal education.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And there's a lot of non-traditional education aspects out there. There's courses, there's masterminds, there's events, there's workshops, right? Like there's so many different ways. And so I've paid a lot of money to be in the right room, to be rubbing shoulders with a lot of great people to network, to develop, to learn, to see what they're doing, to be able to apply in their life.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And it's helped me in all areas of life, physically, economically, with my associations and my spirituality. It's not just economically. And so part of that was a little bit of a non-traditional education route with going to Harvard. So I'm now, it's funny, I'm a college grad dropout. but I'm a Harvard alumni. So I completed a three-year program at Harvard. It's called OPM.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
It stands for Owners Presence Management, in which I've spent the last three years with 165 different business owners throughout the world. In order to enter the program, one, you have to apply, two, you have to be doing at least 10 million in revenue. And then you have to get accepted into this program. And there's a lot of people that get rejected into it.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Out of the 165, probably 50 are billionaires that are part of my group. But they do something that's called case study learning, which is non-traditional education. Basically, you study. It's what a lot of MBA programs have started to implement. And essentially what it is, is you have a 15 page case on a business that talks about their background and problems that they're going through.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And then you have to position yourself around these certain questions, like how would you handle the situation? And then we live together for three weeks a year out there at Harvard and with these business owners. And we go to these classes and we would just argue back and forth of like how we would how we would solve this case.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And for me, that's the type of education that is really, really beneficial. It's like real practical. applicable and where I think a lot of times traditional education route just kind of misses the mark. Again, I can say I learned how to learn and learned discipline in the traditional education platform. But I've learned so much more in the non-traditional.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I was doing it to what was called a summer sales program. And so while I was attending Brigham Young University,
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
But like being a learner is one of the biggest ways that I've been able to be successful. I read books on a regular basis. Like I said, I pay to be in the right rooms. I'm studying podcasts. I'm doing different type of thing. If the education system is teaching you that there's a finish line, that a piece of paper is your finish line, you're doing the wrong things.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
You have to realize that the, if the education system is teaching you anything is that you should be a lifetime learner. And like, for me, that's what I took from the education system and I've been able to apply. And that's where I would say most of my successes come from is being constantly hungry for learning.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
But getting away from this like there's a finish line to learning mentality, which I think unfortunately is what's pervasive in the traditional education space.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Was was going out three and a half four months a year making between sixty and a hundred thousand dollars over over that period of time and and You know doing pretty well for myself, but with the intention to pay for college become a doctor Because ever since I was young I knew I wanted to be wealthy and And I knew I wanted to help people and I felt like that being a doctor was that route.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
So, one, if you're still in high school and still under mom and dad's roof, like that's an incredible time to be able to take risk. So, your 20s should be the time that you take the most risk. because that's when you're developing skill, that's when you don't have a whole lot to lose. Literally, this is the floor and this is where you're at, like failure looks like this, right?
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Where if a lot of people, they waste their 20s working for somebody else, not developing skills, and then even their 30s or 40s, and then they finally decide to take the risk, their 50s, they got a family, they've got a retirement account, they got a mortgage, they got all these different things. failure looks a whole lot more detrimental at this than it does here.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so I would say, take the risk. If you got an idea, So I would say money isn't necessarily made in ideas and money is made in the execution, right? Like what I did wasn't some big novel idea. Selling, installing and financing solar wasn't like there was plenty of other businesses doing out there. But what I did that was better is I executed it at a much higher level.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
and created creativity within a traditional type product or service. And so like you don't need something that's like this crazy idea that's never been heard of before or whatnot to be able to go and make money. You've just got to do something that's basic
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
way more times and better and execute better than than anybody else right like so the first thing if you got an idea figure out how to sell if you can figure out how to sell then you can sell pretty much any any type of product if you don't know how to sell go work for somebody that that has a sales platform that you'll be able to go and and work through um
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
but yeah uh you know don't don't get ahead of yourself don't look at like oh i should be a millionaire by age 21 i think that's that's where social media has a lot of things wrong like they look and they see these youtubers or this that and the other that have made it or they look like they've made it right where the reality is is like the thing in your 20s like i said you got to learn how to hustle develop skills you have more time than money
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
So you build out things, you pay for everything with time, energy, or money, okay? When you're in your 20, you have more time and energy than you do money, okay? So you're going to spend as much time and as much energy doing as much as possible. As you get more wealthy and you get money, then you're going to have more money than you do time or energy.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so then you're going to spend more and more money
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
to be able to get more time and to be able to get more energy and the only way that you get more time and energy is you pay for somebody else's time you pay for somebody else's energy right the wealthy buy people's time the poor sell their time and so initially you need to sell as much of your time and energy as possible to be able to build up build up those skills you
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
build up leadership, build up sales, build up any type of like strategy type examples. And then the best investment that you can make in early on, a lot of people like real estate, stock market, no, spend money on yourself, right? Like as you gain more and more of that resource, spend more, right? Because the better rooms I can get in, the faster it's going to cut down my time, right?
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
at a million a million dollars over 20 years and a million dollars over one hour it's the same amount of money it's just a different amount of time and so the way the goal that you have to look at is how do i compress time and the way you compress time is you develop out skills and you buy and you buy other people's experience nice yeah so you're you're very big on personal education um
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And then as I was attending school, I realized I didn't want to go to school for the rest of my life. I didn't want to wait until I was in my mid-30s to really start making money until I was outside of residency and specialization and all the different things that go with becoming a doctor. So right before I was going to take the MCAT, That was no longer the route that I wanted to go.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
So, do you get burnout? That's a great question. So if you are aiming for the wrong... So a lot of people that work for money, money is a hygiene factor. And by hygiene factor, I mean it's very similar to oxygen. So when you can't breathe, when you're stuck underwater or blankets or whatever else, it's the only thing you can think about. Like, how do I get my next breath?
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
The second you start breathing... and you get plenty of air, it no longer becomes a front of the mind concept, okay? Money is the same way. And when you have enough where you can pay your bills, your mortgage, your car payment, your food, your electric bill, your insurance, whatever else, right? And even a little bit of the things of your wants, right? It no longer is a driving factor.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
It's no longer a motivating factor. So really, you got to understand the difference between a hygiene factor and a motivating factor. Hygiene factors only elevate to one level, but they no longer push. Motivating factors will always push you. And so for me, my motivating factors are much more than money. Money is simply a derivative or something that is the fruit of what I love doing.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And what I love doing is I love creating value. I love building teams. I love motivating. I love selling. I love having an impact in the world. And so as long as I can focus on those things that get me excited to get out of bed in the morning, money and everything else will take care of itself.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so a lot of people, they've been taught by society, like work as hard as you can, go to school, get as good grades, get a good job, save for retirement for 40 years, 401K, those type of things. And then when you're 65, you step away and you're old and decrepit and you retire, right? That is again a finish line approach. There's no finish line in life.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Finish line mentality will always leave you disappointed because if you think that there's going to be this miraculous occasion once you have a million dollars in your bank account that the heavens are opening And the angels are going to come out and be like, oh, you're a millionaire. That doesn't happen, right? And so you will find emptiness if you are searching for a finish line.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
What you have to do is you've got to figure out what motivates you to keep running forever, right? And so for me, there's a couple things. One is putting God first. Second is my family. And third is building businesses around those two things. And so... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I dropped out of that program, took all the prereqs for business college. Did that, got into the Marriott School of Business, which is at BYU. And so I went and studied entrepreneurship and business management. And about a year into that, decided I learned everything I needed to know. And so I dropped out to start my first business at the age of 24.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
So started a business, scaled too fast, too quick. lost everything filed for bankruptcy for 2.2 million had less than a thousand dollars in my bank account car repoed out on my driveway had a pretty large organization that we ended up having to shut down so yeah it was learned learned the lesson of hard knocks the the hard way and
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
If you're still in high school and still under mom and dad's roof, like that's an incredible time to be able to take risk. Your 20s should be the time that you take the most risk. So like the best advice I could give to any person is go and fail as much as possible.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. . . . . .. a, ac P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a in a
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
you know, let a lot of people down and it was a very low professional point in my life. And during that time, I had a lot of people telling me like, hey, just go back to school, you know, get a real job, quit chasing the money. And luckily, I didn't listen to those people and immediately I got right back into the same industry. I knew the decisions that I had made that were the wrong ones and
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Well, I mean, if you look what's happened in the last week, just there is strength in leadership and Trump is much more scary, much more strong as a leader than grandpa Joe or Kamala or anything else, right? Like, uh, the world is unsure what to do with Trump and because of it, they respect him. And so you see what's happened since the election results have popped out. We.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
We already see Hamas calling for an end of the war. You got you got Jerusalem or you got Israel and Netanyahu that that's coming out and saying, yeah, or Trump has told him, like, this thing better be done by the time I'm out. You got Putin that says, hey, I'm willing to talk. I mean, when you're talking about Russia, Ukraine war, you know, you've got China that that has been just.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
screwing us on trade and everything else that now they're like hold on let's have a let's have a discussion uh i mean you got whole uh trains that are planning that we're planning on coming across the southern border that have turned around and gone back home like i mean so much has taken place because of strength and leadership strength and power and and i think at the end of the day the the commander in chief
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Well, and the sad part is they got the warmongers on their side, right? You got Dick Cheney and his wife who literally make all their money in manufacturing warm materials, are promoting them. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to weigh out who's more in favor and more willing to go to war. Totally.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Again, there's strength and power in having a military, but then there's a completely different weakness in going to war, surrendering $8 billion worth of our product to the enemy. There's so much to be said about promoting peace. Blessed are the peacemakers. I go to the great master himself, Jesus, and I want to be on the side of peacemaking. Totally. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
brought in a good solid partner, uh, who had, I'd done some work with in the past. And so, uh, we, we started another home security business that we built up very small. It wasn't very big. It, uh, we just kind of micro grew it. We ended up selling that business off. And then, uh, tried a bunch of different things. I've owned businesses in every type of industry.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Yeah, artificial intelligence is very interesting because by default it should make us more efficient, right? Like being able to replace a lot of the different jobs and those type of things. The hard thing is there has to be some level of governance and there's not a whole lot of policy involved with AI right now.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And I see both sides of the coin, both the left and the right of artificial intelligence. Do we get to a point someday where we are so efficient with artificial intelligence and robots that we have to have a universal basic income?
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
potentially you know and and you know we're going to see a lot more mid-level jobs be removed because of artificial intelligence now you can either run towards it and take it head-on or you can run away from it running away from it is only going to position yourself to get destroyed by AI.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
What I would be doing for anybody that's in the field of business, whether as an employee or as a business owner, get familiar with it as much as possible. The future I see is not a world that's ran by AI, but a world that is ran by people that use AI. And so you will not lose your job to AI, you will lose your job to somebody that knows how to use AI.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And that person will be more and more efficient because of it. There's so many different real world applications. You can do coding, you can do copywriting, you can do marketing, you can, I mean, response and customer service and all kinds of different things that are already being utilized in the artificial intelligence world.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so, like I said, rather than run from it, we should be embracing it. And our current education system should be a very hot topic of how do we get our kids above the curve? Because if we're not, guess what? China is. And, you know, somebody else is going to be taking our jobs. And so we've got to fight as if our lives depend on it and really get ahead of the curve.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I mean, there's a lot of ways that we can create fear around AI, and I think there's, you know, we've got to be cautiously, you know, Basically, we just gotta be aware of everything that's going on. At the end of the day, I think the best thing that we can do is learn it ourselves, be willing to pivot, being willing to change.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I've search engine optimization, internet marketing, I've flipped cars, flipped houses, flipped cattle. So I've owned cows and beehives and rental units. I owned a coupon book. I've been in the medical industry
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Like an unwillingness to change will make you, put you in a terrible position in the new world that's coming up. As far as theorizing what are the biggest fears that we should have, I don't really care to do that because you can go down some pretty deep rabbit holes of where it can get. I would rather understand what's going on and make pivots and changes accordingly.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Yes or no. Not really, because every level in history has had a higher level of efficiency. There's those in the 80s that were learning how to communicate electronically before the internet really took over, and those... When the internet first started taking it over, they started implementing things that other people didn't have. It's never like, oh, I wish I had ChatGVT back in the 1960s.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
It's like, no, wherever I'm at, I got to make sure I'm at the forefront of the game. Today, we live in the AI world, so I got to be in the forefront world of the AI. Right? Like just understanding it, utilizing it, get my team to implement it. And so that's where I say like the biggest mistake we can make in the education system is saying like don't learn it, don't use it, don't do it.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Like this is it. Right? It would be like back when I was in fifth grade when the internet was really gaining power for them to tell us don't use the internet. Like this is cheating. Like you're going to kill yourself and stunt your growth.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
medical pendant industry done international energy projects all different kinds of things and you know ultimately realized that there was a whole lot more than I needed to to learn and so eventually I went back and I went and worked for some larger corporations that were growing the way that I that I saw was the right way.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I mean, it's just sales in general, like understanding that people, I mean, the sales process, which is breaking preoccupation, identifying pain and identifying needs, presenting a solution, and then reassuring people that the solution is the right move, right? And then ultimately getting people to make a decision.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Decision-making is the number one skill that we have to develop for ourselves and for our clients. Because when people operate in the maybe, that is where mediocrity hangs out. Yes or no. Decision-making doesn't mean always yes. Decision-making means a no as well. But we are trained as human beings to be okay with maybe because it means that potentially there will be a yes.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so we will be indecisive in the vehicles we buy. We're indecisive in how to use our time. We're indecisive like maybe I should do this. Maybe I should do this. Going back and forth. The number one skill that you can develop out in anything is being decisive and helping others be decisive.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so whether that's public speaking, sales, whatever else, the quicker we can get to a yes or no decision, the more value that we can create in society.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
So you can just follow me on Instagram at Chris Lee QB like quarterback. Follow me on Instagram. You can reach out to me with a DM as long as it's not spammy. I'll respond. And so, yeah. And then everybody that's in the class or whatnot, you're more than welcome to come and join our Teenage Mastermind. You can talk with your friend here and he can give you some more information.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
It's free to anybody here in the area. So would more than love to have you be a part of it.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so I, I spent four and a half years working at three different businesses and studying the CEOs of those businesses and really, uh, locking down my theories behind business. And so, uh, one of my favorite mentors, his name is Todd. Uh, he was the CEO of Vivint and, and I, uh, I studied a lot from him and I learned probably the most from him.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
We didn't have a lot of one-on-one conversations, but I was in the room a lot of times when decisions and directions were being made. And I just saw the culture and the organization and the strategy that he was applying. And, and I was taking a lot of notes where other people were there for paychecks. I was there to learn. Made a lot of money during those times.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
But ultimately, fall of 2016, I decided to walk away. I was an executive for a business at that time, making a half a million a year. Had a company credit card that I could put anything on it. I was the VP of human capital is what it was called. I was over recruiting and developing out teams. And you know, I had what would be considered a incredible job, right?
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Like I could go to any steakhouse, any ballpark, any place in the country, bring in recruits, have a good time, sell them on the vision of the business, everything like that. It was, it was a great job. It was a great job, but ultimately it wasn't fulfilling me in a way that I knew that I could go and build.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And I had learned everything that I needed to learn by going back to work for someone else. And so fall of 2016, I stepped away and everyone thought I was crazy. Cause like I said, I had, I had the dream job, the perfect job, uh, uh, when, with working with somebody else and. for the next year, figured out what I wanted to do next.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And I explored the international energy markets, did some projects there. I really spent a lot of time understanding internet marketing and I learned Facebook ads. I took a drop shipping course where I spent some money and I was drop shipping teeth whitener and flashlights all over the world and realized that that skill set would be well applied to a much higher ticket product.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And I knew the solar industry. I'd been in the solar industry since 2014. So I'd spent almost three years in that industry. Actually, three and a half years at that point, mid-2017. And so ultimately decided to take that skill and apply it to generating leads for solar. People said they were good. So I'm like, man, we might have something to actually go and build a business off of.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
So fall of 2017, launched a business out of my garage.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
bootstrapped which means it didn't take any outside investment didn't have any loans or any outside capital to be able to grow the business and just bootstrapped it myself out of my garage and kept expenses extremely low and invested in all the right things and so November 2017 is when we started marketing December 5th we had our first solar install
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
of 2017, so 2018 was our first real year in business. We did nearly 16 million in revenue. Year number two, we did 32 million, then 34 million, then 89 million, then 233 million. And eventually becoming the sixth fastest growing company in the nation, as recognized by Financial Times. Inc. 5000 put us as number 12.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Um, that's out of any privately held company or industry in the U S and, uh, it was, it was a wild ride. We, uh, built it up to 1100 employees and eventually exited or sold the business off to, uh, to private equity for nine figure deal. And. Uh, I stayed on for about a year and a half running the business and then had a drastic life changing event where me and my boys were hit head on.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Uh, we had a head on collision, but with a drunk driver, which led me to kind of pondering on what I wanted to be sending my day to day doing. And, and so March of, uh, 2023, I stepped down as the CEO of that business. So that, that company was sold Jim power. And then, uh,
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
since then been involved in things that allow me a little bit more flexibility with my time to be able to spend time with my family. And so now I run a private equity group. I have a podcast. It's consistently ranked top 20 in the nation for business podcasts. If you go to Apple, you can see it's called Next Level Pros. It was initially branded as the Founder Podcast.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
We recently changed the branding. But yeah, there I interview very successful business owners and then I also do live consulting for businesses that are wanting to scale their business. And so we run that. And then I have recently we bought a flooring business that we're scaling up. I have a business that's involved with Major League Baseball coaches in which we train youth. It's called Vetted.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
My whole past. Your whole past, in a nutshell. So I've been involved in entrepreneurship for nearly 20 years. And so, I mean, there's a lot that goes into my past. Started off knocking doors, very similar to you. which I think is the foundation for any great entrepreneur.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
So we give youth baseball players access to major league baseball coaches. And then I have an agency, a real estate development company, and then my info products in which I train businesses through masterminds and workshops and weekly calls and those type of things. So that's where I find a lot of my passion now and I travel around the world speaking on stages.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
This last week I spoke down in Las Vegas At an event that was full of mergers and acquisition professionals, people that buy and uh, roll up businesses. Uh, so I was, uh, training them or did a 90 minute presentation from stage this last week, uh, down there. And so, um, but yeah, I, I've spoken on stages all around the world.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
I've spoken in Paris, uh, you know, all, all throughout the United States. Um, yeah. So I, I love, love educating, love, uh, teaching and, uh, recently started a, a youth mastermind here in, uh,
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
in the Tri-Cities where I met great people like yourself and it's my way of giving back and sharing a lot of the knowledge that I have with the next generation so they can really build budding entrepreneurs today.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Yep. I was a pretty good missionary.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Yeah. I had a lot of, a lot of what you call success. Yeah. So, you know, I think luckily God, God gave me the gift of gab very early on and, and really, More than the gift of gab, I'd say the gift of boldness. I think being able to challenge somebody and get them to commit to something that will change their life and better their situation.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
For me, any product that I've ever sold, whether it's the gospel or knives or pest control or whatnot, is stuff that...
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Ooh, good question. So, big fan of education, but not traditional education. Sorry, teacher. My buddy, he goes, I have a business idea and I'd like to get started.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
believe in like one of the the biggest things I tell any entrepreneur like if you can't get behind this product go find a different product right like I have to with every bit of myself really believe that I'm going to better somebody's life by them buying my product and so I think I That's something I learned very early on that I wanted to be behind the best products, the best services.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
And so if you look at all the things that I've sold since I was little, whether it's knives or the gospel or pest control or anything. I have all those services and products in my home. I still go to church. I have a big block of Cutco knives. I have pest control services. I have home security. I have solar. All those things I'm a big proponent of.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
They've got to learn how to sell, and knocking doors is probably the easiest way to, well, easiest meaning the fastest way to be able to develop up that skill. Not indoors for many years, selling different products. Anywhere from when I was 17, well actually just after my 18th birthday, I started selling Cutco. Did that in a... cold calling type fashion.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
It's not just something that I sold, but it's something I believe in.
Next Level Pros
#136: Title: "I've spent over $1M on my education" - My Advice to the Youth - Chris Lee Unplugged
Yeah, so I think one of the biggest things was transparency. Todd, a lot of business owners, they operate in the dark, meaning that they only allow a certain amount of information to go to their employees and they treat them probably like they're dumb, frankly. Where Todd, what I saw him do is he created a very transparent program.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Recession is in the air. The stock market has tanked over 4,500 points in the last four days. Donald Trump has initiated reciprocal tariffs across the board. We've got business owners that are calling me up and saying, what do we do? Do we keep our business open? Do we wind it down? Do we keep things rocking and rolling? Do we go all in?
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
But if they know that the team needs more, the team needs that extra effort, that extra hour a day, that extra two hours a day, the Saturday, they are going to give it because they know that it is needed.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Which the psychology is like everybody loves an underdog. For sure. I mean, when you're looking at a championship game, nine times out of 10, you're going to cheer for the underdog.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
So if you can help people realize that they're a part of that underdog story and there is a way to get out, dude, buy in where most of the time our fear is like, oh, if they know that we're an underdog, they're going to want to leave. They're not going to want to fight. They're not going to like, no, dude. We are wired to be freaking fighters.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
which actually is a good reference to one of my favorite books, Who Moved My Cheese? Yep. Right? You read that book before? It's a good book. It's a fantastic book. Real small, easy read. Basically, the premise of the book is you got two mice and then two little people, and they're going every single day, and they go through this maze, and they find their cheese, right?
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
We are wired to survive, not to die, to go and make it happen. So like freaking get that.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
That makes complete sense.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Yeah, one of the things that we suggest is like, hey, look, is there potentially a sales dealer out there that is tired of the sales dealer grind, really doesn't have any equity built up in their business, that you could offer a piece of equity of your business to these guys and just them alone will get you over that break-even hump, get you to profitability? Like, wouldn't it be worth it?
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Wouldn't it be worth it to offer these guys a 10% stake in a business that is essentially worthless right now? And so it's like, yeah, getting creative. There's so many ways that you can get creative from a marketing standpoint, strategic partner standpoint, a grind standpoint. That was the other thing that we talked about. It's like, dude, get back on the doors.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Let these guys see you going out and making sales. Stop worrying. Stop strategizing and start doing more revenue generating activities.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
It's one of my favorites. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite stories ever, during the 09-10 recession, Vivint had to go and get money from Wall Street to be able to fund their accounts coming up. And Wall Street said, no, we don't have... The faucet's off. We have no more money.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
And so the only way that they were going to survive was they had to go... So Todd goes to his employees and says, yo... We are not getting the money. He was very transparent. We're not getting money. The only way we're going to survive is if we go and find investors. We want to open the investor investment to you guys. We owe you this big back-end check coming up in January.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
How many of you guys would be interested in putting that money towards equity in the business? Dude, if something like 90% of back-end checks... We're plowed into equity. And all these guys went just this classic underdog story. Yeah, dude, we're going to fight with you to the end, Todd. And, dude, those guys made so much money on that equity getting through that recession.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
And they go, and whatever your cheese is, money, relationships, whatever, they're going and they're getting it, and it's always there. They show up, they do the same thing, and it's there. Then one day, it's gone.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Absolutely. Absolutely. So at the end of the day, guys, we understand during times like this, it's hard to maintain good morale, good culture. The way you do it, you've got to sound the rally cry. Really dig into the fact that people want to be a part of a good underdog story. They believe in you in good times.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
They're going to believe in you in bad times as well if you're willing to be transparent and really get that buy-in. And then ultimately, focus on revenue-generating activities. That's the thing that's going to move the needle. Stop the strategy. Stop all these different things. Refocus. Put in longer hours. One of the things that we talked with these guys about is like, okay, look.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Instead of seven, six, seven, eight hour days, you need to do now 12 hour days, do eight hours towards revenue generating activities. And then in three to four hours to like maintain and make sure that everything's being managed correctly. Like that's the level of commitment that you have to have when it gets rough and tough.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
And ultimately, what's going to push you through, make you one of these Fortune 500 companies that was able to survive. Because ultimately, he who survives is ultimately going to thrive when the economy comes out on the back end. Until next time, let's go.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
right and they're like whoa dude who moved my cheese right and all of a sudden so what happened was these two little guys that keep showing up and like the cheese still isn't there yeah and one guy finally realizes like man i gotta change it up i gotta do something different in order to find cheese and so then he started like wandering out and going through the maze and looking for the other cheese where the other guy literally kept showing up every single day and be like dude what the freak where's my cheese
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
And so same thing, right, going on in business right now is like guys are doing the same thing that worked back in 2020, 21, 22, and it no longer works in 23, 24, 25. And they're like, who moved my cheese? But one of my favorite things that comes from that book, not only is the little guy that he's out looking in the maze.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
But the little motto that he preached to himself as he's out looking for new cheese. And the thing that he kept repeating to himself was, what would I do if I had no fear?
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
All these questions are going through people's minds right now. JP Morgan just recently said a 60% chance of a complete recession in 2025. What are you doing right now to make sure that your business is recession-proof? All this and more on this episode of Next Level Pros. Yeah, so, I mean, dude, 2025 is crazy. Donald Trump is coming in hot.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Like, there's a little fear creeping into old Chris Lee's dumpski, you know? I'm like, should I? What should I do? And so a lot of times, like, when things like this are happening, we get paralyzed. And we're paralyzed by fear. And so we do dumb things. We just keep showing up to the same spot versus...
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Asking ourselves, okay, if I wasn't fearful, if there was no fear, what is the action that I would take today? And I've made some of the best decisions in my career when I've been able to like repeat that self over and over to myself.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Well, and at the same time, it's like something's got to change.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Right? Something has to change. We've got AI coming down the pipeline.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
robots are going to be taken over the world right they're going to start manufacturing like the things that are valuable are going to be land and natural resources and energy and who owns the manufacturing right so like all those things in place you have two choices one kick the can yeah right and and have some other future president take care of it or you bite that freaking bullet right now and you start negotiating a new economy
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
shoot me a text i'll answer and help you with whatever you need don't worry i got you back let's go back to the show baby so we actually talked about this in our our last workshop how people a lot of times we are in our like own constrained jail cells that aren't even locked right we think we can't change this is my lifestyle i i have to keep doing the same work like it's really easy when you're running a successful business to think i'm above that work yeah
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
I'm not willing to get back in the field. I'm not willing to get back into the grind. I'm not willing to cut out my lifestyle or anything. And so then we sit there and we show up to where there's no cheese, wondering like, man, why can't I keep sustaining this lifestyle? Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
And along with that would be like, I have to keep these certain employees or I have to keep running out of this certain office or whatnot, right? You can sell the office. You can fire employees. You can make changes. You can get back out on the doors. You could do these things that are the grind. But yeah, like I said, we create those boxes. They're just so constricting.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
This guy is freaking throwing just haymakers from the left corner. And you just have no idea what's going on.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
There's a cool stat you were talking about as far as like the Fortune 500 companies. What was that?
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Yeah, I think the hardest mental shift for that is like overcoming the ego of like, I am too good for this. Because, right, George Foreman at age 48, dude, I've already done it. Like, why would I get back in the ring and box? And, you know, the same thing from my life has happened a couple different times.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
For sure. And we could talk a little bit deeper about that, but I think it's more important, like, What is happening right now in business? A lot of people are scared. A lot of people got things going on. I mean, me and you just got off the phone yesterday with a couple of business owners. They said, hey, Chris and Daryl, these are guys in our community.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
So, like, after my first business failed, I started up a couple other businesses, and Daryl and I were running just a couple little small businesses. And ultimately the opportunity was presented for me to go and work for somebody else.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Dude, that was one of the hardest ego, like it seems so little now, but in the moment it was so hard for me to mentally get over this barrier that like I work for myself. There's no way I'm going to go work for somebody else. There's no way I'm going to go start knocking doors again for somebody else.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Until like when I made that shift and was finally able to just overcome the ego, like things, magic happened for me over the next four and a half years, working for other people, winning Range Rovers, racing. making $400,000 to $500,000 a year, learning strategy that we were able to go and parlay up into SoulGen. That was one huge moment for me, just overcoming that.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
The other one was what you talked about in 2020. We go from the shift. We're selling 30 to 40 accounts a week. um, going into the sickness and March, 2020 hits. And literally the week that they shut everything down, they canceled the national championship and everything else for, uh, for basketball. We sold one account that week. I don't know if you guys remember that.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Oh, and that was scary, right? Like it was just like, Oh, and, And so again, I had to go to myself like, what do I think I'm above and what am I willing to do? And so right again, got back. I was on the phones. I was making calls. I was doing sales just to prove to other guys that like, hey, look, I'm not above this. And I think we all have to go through moments like that in our lives.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
And maybe right now that's it for your business, right? Like you're going through some struggle, right?
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
you've been above doing the sales you've been above doing the work you've been managing you've been doing what all these different things like ask yourself am i truly above this or am i willing to roll up my sleeves get back to work and do the hard things that my ego is keeping me from doing in order to keep this thing rolling because ultimately there's a few levers in business that that you can pull it's not there there's not a lot of levers one you can raise your price
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Two, you can sell more product. And three, you can cut out expense. And so the first two, those are really just mental levers, right? Like changing your price, you can probably charge more and you don't even realize it. And so you just got to go out and get over your own ego of like, this is going to be too expensive. The other thing is driving more sales.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Chances are, as a business owner, you can influence more sales. If you roll up your sleeves, you get to work, whether it's knocking doors, making cold calls, posting on social media, doing different things to be known and seeing that your product exists. and doing efforts that you just haven't done in a long time, right? Like those are the two. And then the third is cutting out expenses.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
They've ran this business for quite a few years, and they are doing everything which they feel is in their power to keep this thing rocking, but the overall macro economy is hurting them.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Like sometimes you've got to let people go. Sometimes you've got to like, who forget what everybody else thinks about you, like giving up the car or giving up the whatever else. And you just got to cut the expenses out. And so like all three of those are really just very ego driven.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Yeah, so really that's what I like to call the battle cry, right? Like the battle cry, like people want to be a part of something. They want to be fighting against a common enemy, whether that's survival or a competitor or whatever else, right? Like everybody wants to be on the team fighting. Yeah. And to your point, the word is transparency. Creating transparency in your organization.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
If your company, if your employees don't know that you are struggling and you can't barely pay the bills, then you are missing out on an incredible opportunity to sound a battle cry and get people behind. Because ultimately... Even if you think your people don't know you're struggling, they know. They know.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
If they've seen good times and now it's bad times, chances are it's not going to be some huge surprise when you come to them and be like, yo, we are losing money every single month. And that's what it was with this guy, right? We were talking and we were like, hey, what's your longest tenured sales guy? He's like, seven years.
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
I'm like, you think that guy doesn't know that you're struggling right now? Like he saw the good days when the incentives were flowing and like, I mean, cash was literally just falling off the pickup trucks, you know? He saw those times and now you're like pinching pennies and not even leading sales meetings and everything else. You think he doesn't know?
Next Level Pros
#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast
Absolutely. Yeah, so it's a win-win scenario. You get rid of the non-players or you get that freaking buy-in because... Because chances are if guys don't know that for this particular example, they're doing 25 to 30 accounts a week and they needed 35 to 38 accounts to break even. If guys don't know that, they are going to give up early, right? Hey, I've already done enough for me.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Too many of us are in the business of impressing other people. Stop it. Stop it. It's the worst business to be in. Money will never be the motivating factor. You have to find passion in something else. Fruit is money. Fruit is accomplishments. Fruit is anything that you are chasing that you think will give you satisfaction, but it is quick, it is fleeting, and it doesn't always come.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
How many of you guys ever saw a course like that like eight years ago? Or even today, right? And I'm like, a million bucks? That sounds awesome. But more importantly, I saw an opportunity to be able to learn Facebook ads. So I go and I start drop shipping teeth whitener and flashlights around the world. UK, for whatever reason, teeth whiteners outlawed, but they can buy it over the line.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I sold a lot of teeth whitener to UK. During this time, I've been involved in the solar industry, okay? I am contracting out, I'm consulting, different things like that. I had gotten involved because I had been in door-to-door sales, selling solar in 2014. And I'm selling this teeth whitener for 50 bucks, right? It cost me $4 shipped, and I'm selling it 50 bucks all over the world.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And I'm like, what am I doing? Like I have a way to generate interest online. and be able to get somebody interested in buying a product, why am I wasting this on a $50 product? And I realized, so up until this point, in the solar industry, the only type of online marketing that existed is what we call inquiry-based.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Inquiry-based is, I mean, someone's out inquiring, it's Google search terms, maybe a little YouTube or whatnot. That was literally the only type of online marketing that existed. And I saw Facebook, and I had knocked doors for 10 years. How many of you guys have ever knocked doors selling a product? It's hard, okay? And I'm one of the best in the world at it, okay?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I worked for a company that had 3,000 reps. I was number three. for them and but the frustrating thing that i always had in this door knocking world is i could not self-replicate like why can't i get somebody to go and do exactly how i do it and when i started running facebook ads in 2017 i realized one what why does door knocking work Okay.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Door knocking works because the person you're knocking on their door doesn't realize they want your product. Okay. If they did, they would have already inquired about it. They would have shopped for it and they would have selected the best price for the value. Door knocking works because you help break preoccupation, identify a need, present a solution, and then you close the deal.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That's why door knocking works. With Facebook, I'm like, wait, this is the same freaking thing. I can interrupt, pattern interrupt. I can educate and identify the pain. I can present a solution for a product that they didn't realize they needed. And I can go in the home or close this thing virtually. I'm like, what? This is phenomenal. This is digital door knocking.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And so what happened then was I became the pioneer in the solar space, in really that home service space of doing Facebook marketing. And we started taking risks here, there, and everywhere. And so what happened was initially we started building out of my garage. I don't know if this has it. Yes. Okay. So I built an 1100 person organization out of my garage. This is my garage.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
It's a little bit bigger than most. It's a 3,500 square foot shop. 400 square feet of it was finished when we first started. And this is inside that garage right here in the down lower left. And we started generating leads and selling and installing. And we started to scale. And we did this without any money. We would spend a little money.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
If we got a return, then we'd spend a little bit more money. And we did this over and over again. Year one, we did $16 million. Year two, we did $32 million. Year three, we did $34 million. That was COVID-19. Year four, we did $89 million. And year five, we did $233 million before we sold to private equity. Give it up, baby. Let's go.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
The building materials, the carpet on the floor, the businesses that you've created. And so what I need from you guys is to stand up right now and actually get a little energy in this room. Come on, give it a clap, a little round. Come on. All right. So this is what we're going to do. This is what we're gonna do. We're going to stretch, stretch up, stretch sideways, the other way.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Meanwhile, we built an incredible sales force, a 300 person virtual sales floor, and we had locations, 18 locations throughout the United States in which we owned everything in the process. We marketed, we sold, we installed, we bought a finance company, we controlled the loan aspect, we originated loans, we did absolutely everything. I'm losing my slides here. So that is the story.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Now you're probably asking like, Chris, why does this matter? How does this apply to us? All the different things. And throughout it all, we won a few awards. I think we're the 12th fastest growing company in the nation privately held. Financial Times recognized us as the sixth fastest growing any industry. I mean, it was a freaking rocket ship and legit.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Like we, uh, we ended up having to buy a jet just to be able to let go. We bought a $7 million jet cash during that time. Like it was, it was freaking wild. Okay. So eventually led to two different nine figure exits. So what I'm going to share with you guys right now, and listen, I know it's late and I have some information. Am I permitted to share this information with you? All right.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
So can I get a commitment? that you will stay engaged until 30 minutes from now. Are we good? All right, can I get a yes or yes? Let's go. Okay, so I am about to share with you, I've actually never shared this from stage, okay? This is actually something I only share with my group.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I run a group that we do masterminds and all this different stuff in which we teach these principles that I'm about to share with you. These are the exact, and listen, it's a lot, okay? So what I'm going to ask you to do is pull out your phones, and when I go to a page, take a freaking picture. I'm not going to be able to address it all, okay? But you're going to see how I approach business, okay?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
This theory has led to two different exits, my own, and then I consulted another business for equity that also exited for nine figures, but did it in a faster time. Did it in a three-year period. That deserves a round of applause, right? So I'm going to share that with you. And again, there's not like crazy detail and I'll try to give you as much detail as I possibly can.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And then I am here through the rest of the night. If you want to come up and talk to me and talk strategy and all that other stuff, happy to do so. And this is also something that another company that I didn't have an equity position in just recently exited for nine figures and I teach my group.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
So, first of all, before we jump in, I want to tell you why I selected solar and why I love home services. I know Kyle has a big focus in the home service space, the home improvement, home service, everything else. It's freaking amazing, right? One downfall, you got to deal with freaking consumers, right? The Karens of the group. How many of you guys have ever dealt with a Karen? Oh, gosh. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Man, you could do everything right and Karen will not be happy. The worst. So why I love home services, one, you can market directly. You don't have all your eggs in one basket, right? B2B tends to be really difficult from the standpoint is like you have all your eggs in one big basket. Maybe you have one client that is 30% of your portfolio or whatever it may be.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I love home services because it's B2C. homeowners, especially in this market, but hopefully it's going to get a little better. I'm a big Trump fan. Let's give it up for Trump, huh? So in this market where interest rates are where they're at, people are going to invest more in their homes, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And then I'll count to three and I'm gonna video this. We are gonna yell, all right. We are going to scream some energy into this room. Oh, all right. And we're going to yell as loud as you can, as bad as you want it. Whatever that next acquisition, that exit that you're going to have, I need you to have it come out in some form of energy for the next five to ten seconds. Okay?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
They're choosing rather than to buy a home with the improvements to make the improvements at their current residence. So they're gonna keep it a little cleaner. They're gonna improve the roof. They're gonna make, put in better windows. They're gonna do, it's cheaper to do that than to go and trade out for the same cost of the house that's gonna cost you twice the monthly payment.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That is one of the main reasons I love home services. There's so many different verticals that you can add. You can go in and you can crush it in this one, and then you can add a nice little parallel that you can utilize the same exact customer base without spending any more money on marketing. I freaking love that.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That's one of the reasons why my solar business, we started getting into roofing, right? We were sending out all these roofs, right? And a lot of customers needed re-roofs. And we're like, let's just start doing this in-house. We already have the customer. They want the service. Let's go this direction. And there's so many parallels in the home service space.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
The other thing I love about solar, it's a foundational change to a necessity in our society. Every home needs power. I freaking love it. The last 18 months have obviously been rough from an interest rate standpoint. But if you are going to enter any market at this time, And I can tell you this because I can't compete in this space, unfortunately, anymore. Solar would be pretty freaking awesome.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
You can go and pick up companies for pennies on the dollar right now because there's a lot of companies that have just struggled. Or you can even just start up in the space. It's going to have an incredible eight-year run. There's less than 5% market penetration throughout the U.S. I compare it to the cell phone industry.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
cell communication is a necessity in society so is energy right and we are literally still at the bottom of the hockey stick so that's why i love solar and why i love home services okay so here are my core theories that we are going to talk about and once again tons of bullet points i apologize but we're going to get through it as fast as we can Okay, overall strategy.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
These are some basic theories that I run everything on. One, always put the business first, then the employee, then your customers. Most people flop that. They say customer first, then employees, then your business. Bull crap. I have to run a freaking profit. And you're like, profits over people. Yeah, because that's the only way I take care of people, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That's what I did wrong in my first business. I was like, pay people more, charge customers less. Sorry, pay people more, charge customers less. Here's my margin. So my theory that where this is like charge more, pay a little less and pay in alternative ways outside of just a pay, a pay structure and get as much freaking margin as possible. Okay.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
The other thing, competition isn't what you think it is. Most of us, we look at a competitive space. We're like, oh, so-and-so's dominating this or this is that, whatever. You do not have a competitor. I don't care what industry you are in. The only competition that you have is the pain that you are solving. And what I mean by that is most people price their product. Thank you.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Most people price their product according to what the competitor is charging. Like, oh, if I can be a little bit better priced here, I'm going to win the business. How many of you guys have ever thought about that? Thought of it that way? If I can just price or maybe just charge a little bit more and add a little bit more value, then I could bull crap. Stop thinking about it that way.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Forget what they're charging. Run the Louis Vuitton method, right? Go and charge 20 times what everybody else is and separate yourself by actually doing real sales, okay? Real sales, going back to what I was talking about with Facebook, breaks the preoccupation, educates and identifies the pain. Doesn't create the pain, identifies the pain. Provides a solution. When you provide a solution,
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
You can charge whatever can be justified to cover that pain. And you are solving a pain. Maybe some of you, I was just at Harvard, as I explained, and there's people like, well, this industry doesn't have pain. Bull crap. They're like, luxury watches doesn't have pain. You bet you it does. That person is in pain because they feel insignificant in the room.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And so how do you solve the significant issue? You charge them 50 grand to be able to put that thing on their wrist, right? That is the pain that you are solving. And so if you can one, properly identify the pain that you are solving, charge whatever the heck you want, to be able to do that. And I'll give you an example. In the solar industry, we price per watt.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
So don't be bashful. Bashful never breeds success. Okay? So right now, on the count of three. One, two, three. Woo! So in the cultures that I've created, we always do what's called a two-clap Ric Flair. How many guys know who Ric Flair is? Woo! So two-clap Ric Flair goes like this. I say, can I get a two-clap Ric Flair? And you're going to clap. And then woo! So do it with me.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I was more than 2X in a commodity. Literally, there was nothing different about my product that was on the roof. But there was a big difference in the way that we treated our customers and the experience that we provided and the service and the level of professionalism and the actual quality of labor and everything else that went into it.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
But I could justify $5.25 because of the pain that I was solving. I was replacing their electric bill. I wasn't competing against Johnny Solar down the street. And once again, every single industry has this. Man, I'm getting in too deep here. So again, you can either be the low cost leader. There's only two places that you can be in any industry. And this is it, either low or the highest, okay?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Anywhere in between, you are screwing yourself. Because if I'm here, will I be undercut? Abso-freaking-lutely. You will be undercut in price if you are here. If I am here, will I be undercut? Yes, if I am here, will I be undercut? No, but guess what? Surviving as the low-cost leader is Walmart's game. They're selling butt cracks and poor customer service. I mean, seriously.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And the only reason they can afford to do it is because they have streamlined distribution. They freaking just string out their vendors for 60 days. They have put together just the most dialed in operation. That is the only way you can afford. And I don't know about you, but I make a lot of mistakes. How many of you guys make mistakes in your business? I make a lot of mistakes.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I can't operate like Walmart. So if I can't operate like Walmart, I better be the highest. because I encourage customers to shop us. Hey, hey, Mr. Sales Rep, why are you $10,000 more for the same size system? Hey, listen, here at Solgen, we're gonna provide you an incredible quality product and service. We can drop the cost $10,000, but we're gonna have to cut some corners.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
What corners would you like us to cut? We, but here's the thing, Mr. Customer, we refuse. In fact, if you want that deal, please go with them. But when they're out of business two years from now and you come calling to us for service, we ain't picking up because we are committed. If this is a short-term investment, please go spend the $10,000 less.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I assume this is a long-term investment for your home. Is that correct? Yes, it is correct. Now, do you want to go with the cheapest? Do you drive a Geo Metro, Mr. Customer? I mean, I assume if you don't drive a Geo Metro, there's a reason. You appreciate quality. You appreciate service. You appreciate something about that's a step above a Geo Metro, right? And you just position yourself, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
The reason why Louis Vuitton can charge 20 times is because they put two times the value into their product and another multiple in the service, the personal shopper, here's a drink, They know your name. They sit you down. They offer direct to you. This is one solution. They don't give you options, right? Like, hey, this will look really good on you. You should try this.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Versus like coming in and shopping at Walmart. Where's the freaking bread? Dang it, where's the bread? Where is it exactly, right? So another thing that I don't have up here, eliminate the optionality in your business. Make professional recommendations no matter what product you're in. So overall strategy, own your marketing strategy. How many of you guys outsource your marketing?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
OK, how many of you guys do digital marketing? OK, so we got how many don't do digital marketing? OK, how many of you guys are just keeping your hands down? All right, cool. Marketing is the baby maker of your business. And what I mean by that is you never outsource your baby making, would you? Let that sink in. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Can I get a two-clap Ric Flair? There's some good energy. There's some good energy. So I'm going to tell you a little bit about my story. So Pat talked about it a little bit. First and foremost, I'm a family man. I love my family. Five beautiful kids. Me and my wife have been married 19 years. I got married at the age of 21. Love that woman. She was my high school sweetheart.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I grew up in a small town, 2,500 people, eastern Washington, rural. I was a newspaper boy. My dad was a school teacher, the local football and wrestling coach. I had no idea what it took to make money. Zero idea, right? The only thing that my dad taught me was just work hard. So I had my first job at the age of nine. And I was delivering newspapers every single day at 5.30 a.m., 365 days a year.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
������此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此 Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet此此 cle此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此此 Athlet Athletaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniaceniacenieniket
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I want you to ask yourself, how big is your vision? How many of you guys truly believe you're gonna hit a nine-figure valuation in the next three years? How many of you guys have ever been at that point where you've just like tried all the ideas and it's not working? Ladies and gentlemen, founder of Soul Gen Power, Chris Lee!
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
,,,,,,,, P P P P P P ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P a gener laст gener laст gener la gener la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr la gr hair gi hair gchw ac gchw ac gchw ac la ac gener ac la ac la h h h in ac h in ac h in h in ac h h h h h h h h h h h in ac h in ac h in ac h in ac h in ac h in ac h in ac h in ac h in ac h in
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And that's what I did for a long time. I worked hard. And many of you guys know, hard work don't pay the bills. That's only a small part of the equation. But I was raised with incredible values. the values that my dad and my mom put into me, which ultimately led to the success that I've been able to experience. So I've been in your shoes. I literally have done everything under the sun.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
,,,,,,, P P P P P P P P P ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac a P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P h gener laст gener laст gener laст gener la gener laст gener la gener la grст gener la grст gener la gruw gi la gruw gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair g hair gi hair gi hair g hair gi hair gi hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g in in in in in in in in in
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
,,,,,,,, P P P P P P P ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac a P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P a gener laст gener laст gener laст gener la gr wh gi laст gener la gr.? gener la gr.?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
gener la gruw gi la gruw gi la gruw gi la gruw gi hair g g gr ,:" g turnover gi hair gi hair gi la gr ,:" g ,:" g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g, g
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
,,,,,,,, P P P P P P P ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P a gener laст gener laст gener la gr wh gi gr wh gi gruw gi gruw gi gruw gi gruw gi gruw gi gruw gi gruw gi gruw gi gr ,:" g ,:" g ,:" g ,:" g ,:" g ,:" g , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
,,,,,,,,. P P P P P P G實...N...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G... g, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, ac, Kris Z P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
,,,,,,, P P P P P P P P P P ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P aobra laст� laст� laст� laст� laст� laст� laст� laст�� laст� laст� laст� laст�� la cad cad cad a ,G e ,à cad a ,G e ,G e ,G e ,G e ,G e ,G , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
. . . . .. a, P P P P P P P P P P P實...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G...G... g, g, g, g, g, g P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P One of my favorite examples of this is Google. Guy from the accounting department actually created the algorithm for what became Google.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And what happened was they had something posted in the lunchroom. They had like 25 employees and the guy, and they said, hey, this is what we're working on. They're just communicating across the board. And the accounting guy's like, yeah, I think I can give that a shot. Took it back, created an algorithm, came back, an idea, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
So make sure that ideas can flow from anywhere, but you have direct projects. There should always be the decision maker over every responsibility and should rarely be done by committee. Get rid of committees for decision-making process. Have one freaking person because that is slowing you down. The only way you grow at 10 to 20% a month is you make decisions. Stop dragging your feet.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I always say, if you're struggling making a decision to get into a community like Kyle's, guess what's happening in your business? Your customers are struggling to make decisions. You're struggling to make decisions. Decision-making is a culture. You have to be decisive. The best minds, the best billionaires on the planet, they are rapid at making decisions.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
A decision maker carries the responsibility to understand the ideas of others, but ultimately the outcome rests on him or her. There's no such thing as a perfect person or leader. There's only such thing as perfect relationships, teams, and organizations. How many of you guys are using something like the DISC analysis? I'm going to change your life. Go and do a disc.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
How many have done a disc assessment on themselves? Okay. If you're not using this in your organization, you're failing. Okay. You need balance across the board. It is impossible, again, for one person to be perfect. I'm a high D, high I. I need some freaking S&C, baby. How many of you guys are high D, high I, or D or I, or something in between, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Everything, okay? I've bought businesses. I've ran businesses into the ground. I have literally tried. I was just thinking about it. I bought Bitcoin for the first time in 2014 at $400. Of course, I sold it at 800 and thought I was a genius. But I started my first business in 2008 at the age of 24.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That means you need somebody with steadiness and conscientiousness that's gonna clean up your freaking mess. And you need this across the organization. My wife is a high C, low S, low I. Perfect. Perfect, we can work together, right? This applies to all relationships.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Again, no such thing as a perfect individual or leader, only partnerships, teams, and organizations, and it has to address the whole room. This is something that I quickly talked about, low energy, high energy, anything in the low energy, low value. I can't address this real quick. Execution process, manual breeds automation. When automation doesn't exist, so many people err on this.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
They're like, oh, we got to automate this to make sure it works. No, freaking have a solution right now and then automate it. Take care of the situation, create a process, a manual process, put it on paper, put it on, I mean, literally deliver me my KPIs on my desk if we can't have a dashboard built for it, okay? I need manual now, automation can work later.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Processes and procedures must exist in a manual format before they ever automate or apply by tools. A lot of employees, they're going to start thinking about all the tools they can do to be able to create these SOPs and everything like that. Get that out of the room. Write this shiz down.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Have flows and checklists and everything else manually and then find the best tool that's going to be able to go and automate this. whether it's trainual or whatever it may be. Measure everything. You have to have three to four KPIs. Somebody in your organization doesn't have KPIs. You failed them as a leader.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Quarterly retreats for management with quarterly accountability and projects are an absolutely must. We started this from a low, very early on. We're like, why do we have two people in the room? Dude, we're going to do this right. Okay, we're going to do this right. So when I started out in my garage, I knew exactly the game plan that I had followed from these billionaires.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And no matter how big or uncomfortable, how small, I was going to do it. This is one of them. Always make sure you have quarterly retreats with your people. This is an example of a quarterly retreat for yourself, being in this room. That's freaking awesome. Give yourselves a round of applause one more time. Do I still have you? All right, let's go. Can I get a yell? Come on.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Can I get a two-clap Ric Flair? All right, all right, all right. So bonus, build AI into every single automation, okay? This is where your mind has to shift. And that's why I said caveat, there will be a unicorn built in the next three years that is built by one person. And it's gonna be because of AI. It is taking over the world. That thing was drilled into me at Harvard. Holy crap.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
It was just like AI, AI, AI. Oh my gosh. Like... So with that, if you don't have somebody on your team that specializes in AI, I know most of them are only like one to two years old. There are people out there that are five, six, seven years in the industry, believe it or not. AI has actually existed since like 2013, 2014. Make sure you implement something there.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Financial growth, these are just gonna quick, have six months of fixed costs on hand at all times. Know your breakeven analysis at all times. How many of you guys know your breakeven? How many don't know your breakeven right now? You're lying, freaking liars. Know your breakeven analysis. Most small business owners, they run off of bank account, cash accounting, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
They're like, do I have enough money in the bank? Let's do it. How many guys have been there? How many guys are there? Liars. Know your current support and fulfillment utilization rates at all the time. What can you get from an individual? What kind of production should be required? What KPI do you have for this person? Are they being fully utilized?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And with it, I raised money from my father-in-law, who was a dairy farmer, and I took half my dad's life savings. And anybody that knows anything about 2008 wasn't a great year to start a business. And I thought I knew everything. Thought I knew everything. I was awesome at sales. For whatever reason, God gave me the gift to gab. And I knew how to sell ice to an Eskimo.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
This also goes for any type of truck or computer or anything else. Is it full software? Is it being fully utilized? Do you know your utilization rates?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Because a lot of times we make gut decisions, oh yeah, I should invest in the software or this new hire or this new product or whatever else, purely based off of gut, not knowing that literally the person that is doing that job is only being 20% utilized.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
KPIs are a big helper with this, but we call them KHIs, key hiring indicators that you should have for every single position within your organization. understand how each fixed cost or capital expenditure increases your capacity to fulfill and what it does to your breakeven analysis. If I add this to my monthly expenditure, how much more of my product do I need to sell?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
You obviously need to understand what your average ticket is and all those things, your gross profit that we left the boring stuff to earlier. So tie your sales, this is absolutely key. Tie your sales and marketing to your financials as a variable as much as possible. Does everybody understand what I mean by that?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Meaning that it's directly, that I know if I spend $100 on marketing, I'm gonna get one client, okay? Versus a lot of people, it's just a straight branding approach. Spend a thousand, what just happened? Spend $1,000 and hope and pray that I get a customer. Or pay a fixed salary to a sales rep with a tiny bonus and hope I get a customer.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
The more that you can tie it to commission and production, the less risk that you have and the more scalable your business will be and you'll be able to just pump dollars in. Don't rob, and finally, don't rob the growth capital from your business to satisfy your ego. I want that one to sink in for a second. Too many of us are in the business of impressing other people. Stop it. Stop it.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
It's the worst business to be in. Nobody cares about your watch. Nobody cares about your car. Nobody cares that you're the CEO. They say they do, or you think you do. Most of it exists right here. Quit robbing the growth capital from your business. Like, if you're not worth $100 million, you should be eating like my buddy Pat. Freaking bread and eggs.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Needs and wants are two completely different things. I operated out of my garage. You heard the growth trajectory, 16, 32, 34 million. Guess how long I operated out of my garage for? Two and a half years. Two and a half years I operated, because I didn't give a hell what somebody thought. I wasn't there to impress anybody.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Yeah, can I get an amen? Because nobody cares. Again, nobody cares. In fact, they don't care about the $180 million exit. They don't. When I sold my business, guess what I bought? Not a new house. I bought a pimped out Mercedes van. That was dope. I've been working on my wife for like seven years for that one. And a watch. And simply the watch was just to indicate, here's a little accomplishment.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
This one's not it. Here we go. Time to keep going. So don't rob the growth capital from your business to satisfy your ego. Running the process, the groundwork, you guys have already talked a lot about this. Like this is the full process. You got to prep. You got to make sure you have a quality management team in place. You got to make sure that you've built the culture. It's repeatable.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
It's scaled across different locations. You've proven profitability, right? Like that's all the groundwork. You got to go and you got to create a quality of earnings. How many of you guys have done a quality of earnings? Okay, quality of earnings is essentially you're going to hire a third party accounting firm. They're going to come in and say, yes, your books are this. You select a banker.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And so I was able to sell my father-in-law and my father on this great dream that I was going to go and build in a door-to-door sales space of home security. And because up until that point, I had been going to college and I had been funding college by making $65,000 my first summer, three months. Then my next summer making $105,000. I'm like, man, I'm good at this.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Go and you interview a bunch. You select a law firm. The banker writes the book, 65 pages on why your company is the coolest thing since sliced bread. A lot of you guys know all this. Then you send out teasers and you get IOIs and you do management reviews or interviews. This is the back end, right? The front end, when you guys are acquiring businesses, doesn't look like this, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
You guys are trying to find stuff off market, a little bit, whatever. But this is the backside to be able to go and sell this thing for nine figures. Due diligence, paperwork, and payday. I'll tell you real quick how this worked. Q1 2021, we did our quality of earnings and selected a banker. We selected a law firm. We got the book done in like April, May. We went to market.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
We got the teasers and the IOIs. I think initially we got like 65 IOIs. And then, no, that's wrong. I think we got 20 IOIs. And then we selected the four or five that we want to do, or the six that we want to do management interviews. Then we got LOIs. We got an LOI from Morgan Stanley. That was dope. That was freaking dope. I'm like, what? Morgan Stanley? Man, I only see your signs out there.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That's dope. And that thing was for $240 million. And I'm like, oh. And then they got Kofi. That sucked. So that was fall. That was fall of 2021. So then we had, and we dismissed everybody else. We had to sign LOI, freaking suck. We're like, wait, we gotta do this shiz again? Like, no, shoot me now. And so not everything will run perfect when you go and you do this type of process.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
But let me tell you a few things. Selecting a banker matters, okay? We went to an industry expert, someone that had sold all the solar companies in the industry. And guess what he told us we were worth? 20 million bucks. I'm like, I got something for you. I'm like, what are you talking about? Have you not seen our trajectory? Have you not seen what we're growing?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Like, he's like, oh, but last year you guys only did X in the trailing. I'm like, dude, by the time we finish this process, I'm showing you how we're growing at 10 to 20% a month. We're going to finish this fiscal year at $89 million with 24% profit margins. How in the world would I go and sell for $20 million? You're crazy. I'll make more of that in EBITDA this year.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And he said, oh, yeah, but, you know, I'm like, screw you. So I go in to find a banker that bought in, saw the story, saw the trajectory, everything else. But this much I will say, I made the mistake by not shopping him even more. If I could go and do it all over again, I would have shopped. even more bankers.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I would have spent even more time on that because at the end of the day, they have to tell your story. They have to make the sale. They have to present it. They have to be very vigilant. And also with the law firm that when you negotiate, so I'm going to give you some details on this. We should have sold. We sold for 180 million. We should have sold for 320 million.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And the difference in that 140 million was the way that we pegged the trailing 12. We had a peg, which means you set it in a date and you say, this is the trailing 12. And the due diligence that was supposed to only take 30 days to close took 120 days to go and close. And guess what happened during those 120 days? That was the year we were doing $233 million.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And business is just an extension of sales, right? And there's nothing more to it is what I thought. And so I went and I sold my father and my father-in-law putting money in. Two and a half years later, I found myself bankrupt. Found myself burned through having to file bankruptcy for $2.2 million. And had the car, this was my Mercedes CLS 500 that was repoed out of my driveway.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
So we're freaking just crushing and crushing and crushing. And then we're like, oh, crap. The peg. And then we got so far down the process and the due diligence and everything else. We try retrading and everything else. And they're like, nope, this is it. And you're just like, oh, shiz, do I take 180 or do I walk away?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And ultimately, poor little Chris that grew up in a town of 2,500 had never had two pennies to squeeze together. We decided to take it. And the other thing I wish we would have done, so we did a minority deal initially, $35 million. Now, what we did do, it was not funded through debt. It was all cash on the business, which is actually pretty phenomenal in a private equity deal.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
There's a lot of details when you're doing a private equity deal. One of the things you want to avoid is actually having a ton of leverage put on your business because guess what? Especially if you're carrying the majority afterwards, you got to pay that thing. Right? And so we had no debt put on the business. We took 35% cash, no earn outs, take the money, run to the bank.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
It was actually wired in, but that was dope. And we do the paperwork, payday. And guess what? Chris wakes up. What's different? Nothing. Nothing. Dude, before that, I freaking bought a jet cash. I had everything I wanted. Nothing freaking changed.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
The only thing that was like running up to that, I pulled an all-nighter for 48 hours to make sure that the people that were on the equity table, the small guys in my management team that had little pieces, that they were getting paid out correctly. So I was up for 48 hours because I wanted to deliver the vision that I told them.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
When I walked away, when we did that deal, I made 11 other people multimillionaires on that day. Can you give it up for that, baby? Come on. So nothing changed. And what I would have done differently, I just shared with you, the good, bad, and the ugly. The reason I wish we would have done a majority deal
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
is because P.E., when they have their claws in you, it doesn't matter what percentage they have. They could have 10% or they could have 90%. It's going to feel the freaking same. These guys are going to tell you what to do, even though they don't have the power to tell you what to do. And they're going to annoy the hell out of you.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
They're going to text you and email you, especially the guy that we got in bed with, like 6 a.m. phone calls. I'm like, ah, this sucks. This is terrible. Why didn't somebody tell me about this? So going back, would I have still done the deal? Absolutely. I would have absolutely done the deal. And I would have still done it at 35%.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
But in the inverse, I would have probably done it at like 60% to 70%. Because having their claws in me is terrible. And I'll do that. I don't know if I'll ever sell the PE again. It was a great one-time experience. And sorry, twice. I was just a beneficiary at 9% on the other one. But it is painful. It sucks. You got to know what you're getting into.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
But it's also pretty freaking cool that somebody will cut a check to you for millions and millions and millions of dollars for your hard-earned money. So I stayed on for a year and a half. We did another $120 million acquisition during that time in which we diluted a lot of the cap table to be able to do that. We put a little bit of debt on the business. March, 2023, I'm driving down the road.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Got my son, got two of my sons in the car. And it's a two-way lane. There's a semi coming. And all of a sudden from behind him, I see another car. What are you doing in my lane? Crosses over the shoulder on my side. I'm like, dude, this guy ain't right. I'm in my Tesla, which Elon's freaking awesome. And last second, I got a decision to make. I have two seconds to make a decision. Two seconds.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Remember, decisiveness is important. I had two seconds to make a decision. I can't go left. I'll go into the semi. Is this guy going to stay in my lane? Or if I go off, is he going to follow me off? Talk about rapid decisions you got to make. And I have this whole thing on video, right? It's Tesla. You'll see, I could share with the group somehow, but it's on my social media somewhere.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
had less than $1,000 in my bank account, had my third child on the way, who is now 13, and really no direction on where to go. How many of you guys have ever felt lost on where to go? Yeah? And that's where I found myself in the end of 2010, early 2011 when I filed bankruptcy. And I had people in my years like go back to school, get a real job, become a professional.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I decide at the last second to bail and he bails with me. But luckily, Instead of being a head-on collision, he started right here in my rearview mirror. This part of my door completely shredded off. And right here, destroyed. Destroyed. I got a kid in the back. Not wearing a seatbelt. And it happened so quick. I'm like, what just happened? And I look back. My son's alive. He's staring at me.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
He's got blood just running down his face. And I go into like panic. Like, dude, are you okay? I'm like checking him. Everything's good. The seat. Right behind me is literally gone. Like it's gone. He's bloody. I look over to my son. He's good. Man, Teslas, those freaking things are built incredibly. I was enveloped in these airbags. As I'm checking my son, my phone starts ringing. What?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
911, we just detected a collision. Tesla called us. That's freaking cool. Are you okay? I think so. I don't know. Yeah, send whoever. That moment I get out of my car and look and I'm like, what? Like my car is destroyed. Like this thing. And I look over in the field 200 yards away and this car had rolled four times and it looks like a crumpled up soda can.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Three guys not wearing seatbelts, completely drunk, coming at me 130 miles an hour. They survive. It's crazy. It's crazy. And while I'm out there, literally we had ambulances at the scene within five minutes. It was wild. I get out. I start talking to a police officer. Just like all shaken up. I don't even know what's going on. And all of a sudden I get a phone call. And it's my wife. Hello?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Were you in a wreck? Yeah. How did you know? Apple sent me a text with your location that you're here and then you're in a wreck. I'm like, yeah, let me call you back. Yeah, I am, but we're okay, we're okay. That day changed my life forever. It freaking threw me off the game. But what I realized, so Naval, how many of you guys have ever followed Naval on Twitter?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Okay, Naval, great modern day philosopher, N-A-V-A-L, like Naval. Follow him, he's fantastic. One of the things he says is the best thing that you can ever do is get rich extremely fast. Because then you will realize that that's not what life's about. We spend our whole lives chasing this thing, the almighty dollar. Don't get me wrong, I'm a freaking capitalist. Yeah, I love it.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
But we chase it and we go for it and we go and we try to do these acquisitions and these roll-ups and everything else. As I heard on stage earlier, if you have not defined what you're going to do post, you're screwing yourself. You need to find passion and drive, motivational factors, not hygiene factors. Money is like oxygen.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
When you don't have it, when you're drowning below the water, it's the only thing you can think about. Survive, got to pay the bills. But the second you have enough, you're no longer thinking about, wow, this breath is really good. Same thing with money. Whether you've arrived there or you've passed there, money will never be the motivating factor. You have to find passion in something else.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And that day, now I knew this beforehand, I attribute most of my success that I've always put God first and with my family. Thank you. Thank you. And I chose to have a family and build a business around it rather than the alternative, which most people do.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And so I knew this, but it became a reality on March 14th or whatever that day was, 2023, that there were some things way more important than running an 1,100-person organization. And Initially, I battled with this. Like, do I step down? Do I keep going? Do I want to spend more time with my family? And so after about a 45-day battle, I chose to give the board my notice and to walk away.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Like up until that point I had studied to become a doctor. The only example I had in my life of money was my mom's dad who was a doctor. So she bred into me to be a dreamer. My dad's dad was an alcoholic that made like 20 grand a year. And so I had like these two competing things and this entrepreneur drive to be able to go and invest and build. And so I had a decision to make.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Now, I still had equity in this business, and I freaking loved it. This is my baby. I had bought it out of my garage. I'd given it every ounce. And the people that were a part of that were my family. And I made the most difficult decision of my life to step away. Because I wanted to spend more time with the five beautiful children that I have and what they matter most.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Now there's a post story to that. For the next six weeks, I tried retirement. Freaking sucked. It was the worst. I have never been more depressed in my life. Can you believe that? Never more depressed in my life. And like, if I said that in any other room outside of this, people would be like, you freaking white supremacist. Like, can you believe that?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That a guy would be so depressed walking, oh, poor little rich boy. But it was terrible. And the reason God put us on the earth to create I believe that I am a son of God and that He wants me to walk in His feet. He created the earth. He found joy in the creation. And likewise, I realized I have to be creating. I've got to be doing something that gives me value that I am working on.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I don't care if it yields money. It doesn't have to yield money, right? You could be an active philanthropist that you are creating. You can go and do whatever you want as long as you are creating. And I quickly realized that I don't need 60 hours with my kids every single week. I need maybe probably another 20, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And I can still allocate 40 hours a week to going and building and creating and developing value. And one of my favorite things, so I run a hobby farm. I have 23 acres. My wife, her Instagram handle is Farmer Andrea. She loves being out in the orchards and everything else. We have nine acres of cherry trees. I love fruit cheese for this one reason. Fruit is money. Fruit is accomplishments.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Fruit is anything that you are chasing that you think will give you satisfaction. But it is quick, it is fleeting, and it doesn't always come. And when we work for the fruit, we can do everything right.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
plant the tree i can water it i can give it sun i can weed it fertilize it do everything and then something outside of my power comes in frost comes a late frost kills the blossom what happens freaking no fruit no fruit and most people when that happens in real life like screw this thing chop it down this thing's non-fruit producing cherry tree This job sucks. This business sucks.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Do I keep going down this route or do I go back to safe space? And glory to God, I chose the latter. I decided that not only was I going to start another business, but I was going to start another business in the same exact industry. Luckily, I had learned a few things, okay? And I was able to go and grow it and build it.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Why am I not getting any cherries? But the second you can shift that life is about becoming the tree that is capable of producing fruit, that has all the attributes of producing fruit, and is consistently being worked on, then in the day when you get a great harvest, it's cool. But that ain't the end of it. I still need to become a bigger and better and better fruit producing tree.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I need to create value in which I am going to contribute to society physically, economically, with my relationships and my community, with my spirituality. And when you make that shift and help your employees make that shift, you will change the world. And guys, where I find passion is this. Anything that I can go and create value. Last question. What would I be doing if I'm in your position?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I apologize, Kyle. Hopefully this is engaging. Woo! Woo! So if I'm sitting in your seat, if I'm down here listening to Chris rant and preach and whatever else, and I'm thinking to myself, okay, what do I need to do? One, invest in your relationships. Life isn't fulfilling without those.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Like if you've chased the almighty dollar at the expense of a spouse or having a family or having good friends, stop. Stop it. Nobody is counting their freaking bank account when they're lying in bed on their deathbed. Invest in the relationships. Invest in your physical body. This is the vessel in which you experience the rest of your life.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
If you are not consistently moving the needle for your, and everybody's different. You could be 100 pounds overweight and you are still your best, right? You could be suffering from some X, Y, or Z. I don't know. It's you versus you. Be your best. Give more. Take care of it. Invest in something spiritual. I don't care what you believe in.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I don't care if you believe in God or karma or whatever else. Get conscious. Understand what moves you. We are spiritual beings having a physical experience. Invest there. And from an economic standpoint... Get in the right room. Pay to be a part of it. Invest in yourself. It is the tree. It is the absolute tree that you are consistently working on. The ability to continue to produce.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
If you don't know what you want, go and spend two weeks in the Bahamas on a beach somewhere and ask yourself, who is Chris Lee? I am a producer. I am a billionaire. I am a value creator. I consistently serve. I always put others first above my needs. I look for opportunities to serve. I am a great father. I am an incredible contributor to society. And then I get more detailed. I have 12% body fat.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Not yet. Hey! I have all the excuses in the world though. Type one diabetic for 30 years and all these other things. But those aside, I have 12% body fat. I give away a million dollars a month in something that I am actively involved in, right? Like these are me future casting. Who is Chris Lee? And then create a freaking game plan to go and accomplish it.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And for years, I suffered in this spot of like micromanagement, small team, small-minded thinking. How many of you guys find yourself sometimes there? That's fine. We are all there, right? Like we all there at one point or another. And so I literally tried and built everything. And I was just that typical entrepreneur that had idea after idea after idea.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
When you see, when you were in a dark tunnel, how motivated are you to take a step forward? You ain't. But the second there is light, the second it is clear, the second there is a path to what you want, it freaking bleeds inside of you and you wake up and you get excited and you're ready to go. This morning, I woke up at 3 a.m. I spent the night with my wife in Washington State.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I woke up at 3 a.m. to catch a plane to be here. After I stepped down, we sold our jet. It freaking sucks. I woke up at 3 a.m. the night after the election. I was up late with all y'all, watching the results, cheering for Trump, having a debate with Will.i.am that was broadcasted, he's a liberal, I don't understand it, but whatever. But I woke up at 3 a.m., why?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Why would I be here if I've had all this success and had all these markers? Because that's freaking fruit. Who Chris Lee is is the person that wakes up at three, makes the sacrifices, delivers value,
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
is pushing his message of developing the whole human, physically, economically, association, spirituality, through entrepreneurs, because entrepreneurs are the way that we change the world, not through some politician, not through anything else, an elected official, that's bull crap. entrepreneurs, because initially somebody's going to come because they want the fruit. They want that paycheck.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
But if you can teach them there is so much more, we will change the world. And with that, I'm done. I appreciate you. Love you guys.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
and just try in one thing, see if it works. It kind of works, get distracted. I get a new idea the next day and I go and I do it. I literally like I started a coupon book, a medical pending company.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I had another security business, a search engine optimization business, fixing flipped cars and houses and invested in different things and literally just like throwing my money and my time and my energy everywhere, right? So I did it for a long time and then I realized, This isn't working.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
How many of you guys have ever been at that point where you've just like tried all the ideas and it's not working? Okay. That's fine. And I knew that there was something that I needed to be able to take it to the next level. And so... As I shared, I literally knocked doors and did door-to-door sales for many, many years. That was part of a lot of these businesses that I built.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
But I realized that I did not have the skill set to be able to scale teams, to be able to scale organizations, to be able to go and grow profitably. There was a lot of different mistakes I made in that first business that we're going to talk about here in a second. But What ultimately happened is I went back to what I call my paid education.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And for four and a half years, I went to work for somebody else. How many of you guys are currently working for somebody else? Handful, okay? And that's fine. Working for somebody else is fine. In fact, I think there's a lot of opportunity in partnering or working your way into an equity position under somebody else's umbrella, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
All right, there we go, there we go. Hey, listen, I understand that I am the one thing that stands between you and being out of this room. So what... Kyle, we need to work on placement next time. But I appreciate it. Super excited to be with you guys here tonight. As Pat shared, I've been in your seat so many times. All right.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Their risk portfolio, their dream, their vision, their direction. There's a ton of opportunity there. In fact, that's what I preach to my team. Like, look, you can go and try to do it on your own or you can just come and do it with me and we can figure out an incredible opportunity and path for you.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
right and so for four and a half years that's what i went and did and but i did it on purpose and i did it with the intention that I needed to learn. And so for four and a half years, I worked for three different businesses, experienced two different IPOs under these three different businesses that I worked with. I worked as an executive. I saw and I studied.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I'd be sitting in the executive management meetings. The CEO would be giving direction. People would be asking, why is he asking me to do this? And I'd be like, why is he asking us to? And I would be marking down notes and creating strategy and exactly how I was going to go and grow and build these businesses. I had the pleasure to work under a CEO named Todd Peterson.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
How many guys have ever heard of Todd Peterson? So Todd is out of Utah. He's had two different unicorns that he was the captain of. And then he's had a variety of different unicorns that he's invested in, been a leading investor in, right? And I saw the vision that this man had. And it was un-freaking-believable. And the buy-in and the culture that this guy created.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And it just, like, everything about him, I'm taking notes. Like, I've got to figure out how I can go and do this. And so... Todd, I consider the funny thing is, is I didn't have a ton of conversations with Todd, but I was in the room a lot with Todd and I got to see him the way that he functioned as a CEO. And I'm like, I need to be that man.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I need to be the guy that goes and builds value, creates culture and buy in and everything else. So. From that point on, I decided I was going to invest as many dollars as possible into my own personal non-traditional education. So I paid to be in rooms just like this. And I've spoken in rooms just like this. From 2015...
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Until today, I've spent a million dollars attending masterminds and workshops and being in the right room. And this was while I was still, I started this while I was still working for Todd. Because I realized there is something that he has that I don't. And I need to be around those people all the freaking time. So first of all, give yourselves a round of applause for being in the room.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
So this particular picture was two weeks ago. I completed a Harvard program specifically for entrepreneurs and business owners that do extremely well. This is a picture with Will IM. Him and I are homies. He was a part of the program. It was a three-year program, which we go and we live at Harvard for three weeks straight a year.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
And we eat together and we sleep in the same living quarters and we do all these different things. In my group of 168, there was about 50 billionaires. And like one of my best, best friends, he nets $2 billion a year. Like it is the craziest thing. And what I have found is the investment in my personal education and being in the room has caused me to always level up.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
The number one thing that will lead you to the success that you want. How many of you guys want a nine or ten figure exit by a raise of hands? Say, I do. I do. You got to believe. That's the first step. But second, you've got to invest. Kyle's going to be talking about opportunities to invest to be in his community. Some of you guys have already made that investment and some of you haven't.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
That is the best money you freaking can spend. Because I have been a part of so many communities like Kyle that have forced me to level up. Okay, that literally, and here's the crazy thing. It's not about whether or not I'm going to get the value from Kyle for the amount of money that I pay him.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
It's the level of commitment that I make to myself that I will get the value from Kyle by putting the money in his pocket, right? And that is what I found, right? Before 2015, the most I had ever spent on anything personal education was like 500 bucks to $1,000, right? And during this time, I started forking out money.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
I committed to going to an event at least once a quarter, being in the room, being with the people, right? 2017 comes around and I spend my first money on a course, okay? And during this time, once again, I'm chasing dreams. I'm working for people. And I stepped down as the vice president of a company that went public.
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
in fall of 2016 to take a year to be able to figure out what the heck I wanted to go and do with my life, right? And I was at the top of my game, right? I was making over a half million dollars a year working in a corporate job. I had a credit card that I literally could spend on what the freak I wanted, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
So many times I've been in your guys' seats, working, investing, doing the things. So one thing I do know about value is And being able to actually get what I'm going to talk about tonight is that value is a derivative of energy, right? Every single thing that you see in this room was naturally created and because of energy input. value has been created, right?
Next Level Pros
#137: Spilling My 9 Figure Secrets - Chris Lee Keynote - Kyle Mallien
Like it was literally the best secure job that I could ever have, but I had learned everything that I needed from that position. And so I stepped down That, six months later, I'm chasing a few different things. I go and I spend $2,500 on a Facebook marketing course. And it was something like, hey, I made a million dollars drop shipping something.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
This one phrase kills more deals than anything else. I asked a live audience who had heard it, every single hand shot up. In this video, I walked straight into the trap on purpose in front of a live crowd. And guess what? I leaned into it and turned it into a yes. Most people get crushed at this point. This is how I turn a I need to think about it into a heck yeah, let's go.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Oh, I get it. I get it. So, I mean, it sounds like it's more around a fear about making a good decision. Does that sound right?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Okay. So like really it, as far as like not being comfortable, is it, is it more like comfort or fear? Like what's, what's the main driver?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Hey look, so I'm not here to pressure you. Like, at all. So, is it alright if I like shoot you straight? Pretty cool? Alright. So, one thing I've known, so I've been in sales a long time, but I don't consider myself like the other guys. You probably had some pretty bad experiences with other sales guys?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Can you tell me about those?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
uh just um just real pushy calls been on there for kind of hours and hours and then it's got to the point where i've like emptied my bank account and uh made a made a bad decision so it's it's more of like did you feel like these guys were in it for themselves i'd say so okay like dude i totally understand it that's why i hate the industry like i'm i'm on your i'm on your side like
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
those guys give guys like me a terrible rap, right? Because they're pressured. They're like, yeah, you probably are going through this terrible thing. And you're like, not really, but maybe. And then they kind of make you feel terrible about it. Is that kind of the emotion that you go through?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Okay. So first of all, that's not how this is going to go down. Like we're not going to, this is not going to be like a pushy sales call or anything like that. But one thing I can tell you is like the power I've found in what I do is I help people get to a decision.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
You tell me like, why would a decision matter to you? Like saying yes or no to something? What, why would that be valuable?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Yeah, I get that. So would you agree, though, that maybes don't make the world go round?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Okay, cool. Dude, I'm here for you. I'm here to make the world go round, to make...
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
a your life better in some way or another and that might be no that might be like Chris this isn't for me it doesn't fit it's not a solution to my problem and that's totally okay right like what I'm my commitment to you is to be on your team and help you weigh out the decision and make a decision and the reason why I do that is because
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
My job is more than just to help you save money or spend your money in a right way. My job is to help you save time, energy, and money. And frankly, there's going to be a little bit of time and energy into this today. And at the end of the day, I want that to be done. And I'd assume you'd want that to be done. Would you agree?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Let's role play, I need to think about it. Who wants to be role play with me? I need to think about it. All right, we've got one here. Whoever gets this concern, I need to think about it. There's a million derivatives of this concern, right? I need to think about it. I need to pray about it. I need to talk to my accountant. I need to talk to my wife. I need to get more quotes.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
When was the last time that you thought about something for hours and hours or days or weeks or whatnot, and you're like, dude, that was the best time spent in my life?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Yeah. Can't think of a time. Me neither. Me neither. In fact, like, like being decisive has really served me well. So would you agree that it's fair ass that we just get to a decision? It can be a no. Totally fine with a no. As long as like everything adds up, it makes sense. It helps you achieve your goal. And we can do with the quality product, fair price company, you know, you can trust.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
and a rock star like me, like, dude, I'm in your corner. The reason I refer to myself as a rock star, because I'm on your side. I am here to help this be a win for you, to be, and no can be that. Is that a fair ask?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Okay, so as long as I can do those things, is there any reason why you wouldn't move forward today?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
All right, let's go, baby. So, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, dude. So guys, I don't know how to put this. Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry, I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
There is not a concern in the world that that can't overcome. like that process that I just went through. And it's like, you gotta get creative. You gotta just ask a lot of questions, ask about their previous experiences, what has led them to be hesitant in moving forward?
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Because there is some emotional connection to a poor decision that they've made or an experience that they've had that is giving them that knee jerk reaction. And so ultimately, you've got to push through and find what that is and let them know that, dude, this is a safe spot. No liberal zone, but still safe. And at the end of the day, I'm totally OK with the no. And it's authentic. It's real.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Most guys can't resolve concerns like that because they're not authentic about being OK with a no. They're desperate. They're operating like a dude, if I do not get a yes, I don't pay my bills. Well, you know what else it doesn't pay bills? Maybes, and you're getting a lot of them. Maybes don't make the world go round. And so helping me understand is one of my favorite.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
Like, dude, help me understand. It's a way to get on their level. And then one of my other favorite that you see on page 64 is like dumbing yourself down. Like, I love to dumb myself down. Like, look, sorry, dude, I don't know what's going on here. I suck at my job. Like, I probably didn't do a really good job explaining how this works.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
They're literally all the same. So let's role play. I need to think about it. And again, backing up, If I have set proper expectations, it is really difficult for me to get this concern at this point of the sale. So I'm even happy to role play it at the point of when I'm going to do a hard, soft close. I'm like, Chris, I just don't make same day decisions. I really need to think about that.
Next Level Pros
#143: This One Objection Costs Salespeople Millions of Dollars // Next Level Workshop // Chris Lee
So we can go to that point. Because if we're running this process, that's more likely where you'll be than than there so let's do that got it so yeah man i just need to um need some more time to think about it i'm gonna go ahead of anything cool cool that that's that's no problem so like help me understand like what uh what you need to think about my man
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
So you started out as a developer for internet.com. What ultimately led to you saying, you know what, I want to go and do something on my own. Like what, what finally like clicked or made sense for you at that time?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Let's dig into a little bit more granular. You bootstrapped this thing for the last 19 years, and you've slowly added different products or different features to your product, slowly added employees, slowly added these things, right? Yeah. How have you been able to say so focused?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Because I'm imagining there's been distractions or been other opportunities that have been presented over the last 19 years. How have you been able to just make sure you hone in and continue down this path of like, this is our strategy. This is how we go to market. This is what I'm dedicated to. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
that really a lot of us entrepreneurs miss out on because we get distracted by the shiny objects. We've got all these other different type of things. And iTechin is proven that if you can just find something that works and continue to dig the hole over and over and over again, eventually you're going to hit oil. He has grown his business since 2005 to now 19 years later to over 600 employees.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Awesome. This is what I'm hearing. Traditionally, entrepreneurs are very ADD and easily distracted with what we call the shiny object syndrome. New opportunities arise and we say yes to that instead of learning how to say no.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
And so what you're explaining to me and what I've also been able to find success in as an entrepreneur is identifying new opportunities that still fit within the scope of our focus, right? Still fit within the hole that we are digging to hit oil and, and being able to find joy and passion and creating new things that that fit within that focus.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Because I think where a lot of entrepreneurs fail is they want these new opportunities and new ways to grow and create and develop and use this. Because as entrepreneurs, we're just going crazy with ideas. We're always trying to think of like, all the new ways to improve and everything like that.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
He's got an incredible software, JotForm, that is utilized throughout the world, doing millions of dollars in revenue. He is a New York Times bestseller, Automating Your Busy Work. He is just well-published, just a well-established entrepreneur. He's super excited to have you on the show, Mr. iTech, and welcome to the show.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
And the issue for where it becomes an issue is when that's outside of your focus, when, when all of a sudden, like I'm focused on developing software and I have this idea about real estate, or I have this idea about a physical product that I could go and sell, or somebody else comes to me and says, Hey, do you want to invest in this and help consult me on this or whatever it is?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
And, and so, and, and, In our minds, we believe that we are capable of anything. Like we can go and be successful in anything we've done because up until this point, we've had success in everything. And so the temptation is to say yes to those type of opportunities that are outside of our focus. And then we get distracted and we start digging new holes and we never eventually hit oil, right?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
We never hit that compounded. And so what I'm hearing from you is is that you know that this is your hole and you're just finding new ways to drill, right? New ways to be able to access oil from the same hole, whether that's new features in forms, a DocuSign type of product or whatever it is. And so that's what I'm gathering from this, from the principle, like the
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
A principle of success of consistent effort over and over again requires new creation within the same focus. Would you agree? Exactly.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Yeah, man. It's exciting. And I would also share that not only an incredible businessman that has dedicated himself to the craft, but a family man that I just found out married, three children.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
For me, as a family man, it's always important to me when I have that similar bond with another business owner because some people, they just dedicate their whole life to business and they don't have this other aspect. So that's really cool. So you started out as a developer for internet.com for five years. In fact, I didn't even know internet.com was a thing. That makes sense, early 2000s.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
So I would extract a few principles from that story right there. So first and foremost, I think as entrepreneurs, we've got to be consistently identifying new ways that we can go to the market, right? You had gotten comfortable in like, this is our go-to-market strategy. We give away the product for free. We bring on users 1Z, 2Z. They upgrade from the free version to the paid version.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
We don't do enterprise. But then you started... like exploring this idea. So one, like you got to constantly be exploring and thinking about ways that you can improve your go-to-market strategy, whether that's an affiliate, whether that's an enterprise, bringing in a sales team. The other principle that I would extract is like,
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
um don't be afraid to get uncomfortable doing something that you're not comfortable doing right like like you obviously didn't have the the sales background you weren't comfortable doing it you hired people they didn't work out right like you and you're cut you're in this uncomfortable situation where you believe it might work and you're just kind of making those tests and like that's that's also very important as an entrepreneur that you have to be doing these things that get you out of the normal day-to-day comfort
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
And get you uncomfortable. A few other principles I would extract is like the law of keep going. Like when you think you're on to something, don't give up right before you hit gold. Right. You know, it would have been really easy to shut shut it down after the first, the second, the third person didn't work out.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
And so, which leads me to my last principle is like, if you're going to, as an entrepreneur, if you want to go and explore something, hire the best people, whether that's a contractor or that's an outside consultant that actually have experience doing the exact thing that you want to do, right?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Not just somebody that worked for an organization that did what you want to do, but like that has the real world experience, maybe like in this example, doing it as a startup or Building a sales team from scratch, going and doing that grinding mode because there are people out there that are available that want to – and this is all just a lack of marketing.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Marketing is what makes the world go round. What you want is out there and available. And what they want is out there and available. And it's just a lack of knowledge about each other and the opportunities that exist, which is essentially a form of marketing. And so understand that there are solutions. Be willing to take the risk.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Stick to it even when it hurts or you feel like you can't fail another time. But yeah, just so many incredible principles to be extracted from that great story right there.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
I take it, man. It's been a pleasure going through this. You've had incredible growth. What has been the hardest thing about bootstrapping and slow growth over the last 19 years to get to the position where you're at today?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
So you did that for five years. What ultimately led to you saying, you know what? I want to go and do something on my own. What finally clicked or made sense for you?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
And for those that didn't pay attention right there, we're going to recap this. First of all, you cannot busy yourself with $25 an hour work. If it can be delegated and automated to somebody that, that can do that for $25 or less, you've got to get rid of it off your plate because this is where this is the biggest launching pad for any type of entrepreneur.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
When they shift from doing busy work to the thing that they're most passionate about, the thing that gives them purpose, joy, happiness. Right. And so like, what is the, the, The question that he types on there, what is the most important thing that I can do today, especially in a day of distractions? There are so many distractions, right? Like this cell phone right here was made to distract us.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Push notifications, social media notification, email notification. Right. versus what is the most important thing that I could be doing today? And I taken that is like the greatest advice that you could give. I appreciate you sharing that with the world, with our listeners, with our viewers. That is really like the biggest gem from this podcast. Where is...
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
the best place that our people can support you, follow you on social media? Where's the best platform for that?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
So you guys heard that head on over to, I taken tonk.com. That's a Y T E K I N T A N K.com. You can get to first, a few chapters of, or first chapter of his book for free. Um, Go ahead and support him. Buy his new book. He's got a new book that he's going to be releasing in the next 12 to 18 months, which we're super excited about. Super excited to see where this journey goes.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
I mean, the fact that 600 employees only growing from here, I know the revenues are really high and we're going to maybe disclose them on a future episode, which I'm super excited about. Thank you so much for your time today. I think until next time.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
So hooking the user in with something free, some sort of offer up front. Let's back up. I mean, you go, you're like, hey, I know this product. I know this is a good solution. I'm going to go do it on my own. Was that scary at all? Walk us through the feeling. I don't know.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
19 years ago, it's hard to remember all the emotions that we're going through, but walk us through the emotions of making that initial leap. Because I know a lot of the listeners on here are probably in similar situations. They're like, I want to be an entrepreneur. I'm currently an intrapreneur in my current business. I have a skill set.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
But I'm a little like there's no security in going and doing this my own. So like walk us through how that how that went down for you. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
What's up, Founder Nation? Super excited to bring you this episode with Mr. Itek and Tonk. This guy has built a 600-man empire competing with Google Forms and all kinds of different crazy stuff. The best part about this episode is the focus that this guy has had the last 19 years, not getting distracted. all the shiny objects. You know what I'm talking about if you're an entrepreneur.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
What kind of money were you making that time in this dream job? I mean, obviously, 2005, completely different than 2024. But what kind of money were you making in the US?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Couldn't agree more. I think there's too much unnecessary risk, right? Like a lot of people associate being an entrepreneur with risk, which there's very much so risk involved with being an entrepreneur, but like hedged risk and proper risk is absolutely necessary. And so this actually ties into like one of our previous episodes when we talked about like the side hustles
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
that you can be building on the side. Each one of us have 168 hours in a week. Most of us dedicate 40 of that to our jobs, to our economics, and going and growing. And then you have 40 hours dedicated to sleep, another 20 hours dedicated to family. There is time. There is always time if you prioritize what you have going on to be able to go and do exactly like Aytekin said,
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
There's all kinds of opportunities out there. We want to say yes. One of the best phrases I've ever heard is you can do anything, but you can't do everything. We hit oil by digging one hole a thousand feet deep, not a thousand holes one foot deep. So let's dive into this episode as we talk about focus and compounded growth. Let's go. Yo, yo, yo, welcome to another episode of the Founder Podcast.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
go and just build your own product on the side, right? There's no need to go and just immediately put all your eggs in one basket and take all the risk when you can get paid to be educated. I am a big proponent, just as you, I take in that, like, Go and get a paid education. Learn from other people. See what you're good at.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Identify the ways that you can go and impact the marketplace and do it on somebody else's risk and somebody else's dime. And then the other thing I would point out here is that sometimes entrepreneurship isn't that sexy. Your product doesn't have to be that sexy. Forms, there's nothing super...
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
oh man this this is the the best thing in the world or so amazing or awesome or whatnot like i'm sure you saw there's just like this is just something that people need and i'm good at it and i can go and provide a solution that's better right and so it uh it just goes to prove that like Successful entrepreneurship isn't necessarily in the product.
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
It's the dedication, the practice, the team building, those type of things. And so you go and you launch this thing and you initially start giving it away for free. And I'm assuming you're probably still running some of these side hustles that are bringing other money or how did that go down?
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
Today, I am joined by Mr. Aytekin Tank. Aytekin is tuning in from Turkey, halfway across the world. Super excited to have you. Aytekin's got a phenomenal story. This is a story that you're not gonna wanna miss. We're talking about somebody that has dedicated his life to his craft, that slow growth, consistent, compounding growth,
Next Level Pros
#130: How Jotform Founder & CEO Aytekin Tank Got Great at Solving One Problem
For sure. I love that. So initially you had that free product. When you made the conversion and started offering the $9 a month, how many free subscriptions did you have active at that time?
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Real people versus artificial intelligence. Some people say that AI is going to replace blue-collar jobs, while others say it's going to make us unstoppable. So who's right? In this video, we're going to break down exactly how bots, wearable AI, and tech like ChadGBT are completely changing the game for home service pros, and why it's either your biggest opportunity or your biggest threat.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Let that be a voice of warning to every single person that's watching this. Face it head on. Go and take advantage. There's so many opportunities to learn and grow. Go and get it done today. Let's go.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
So they actually just released ChadGBT 4.1. Did you hear about this? So 4.1 is like an advanced version of 4.0. And then you have 4.5, which is more for like copywriting and those type of things. But like ChadGBT, we just did a workshop like six weeks ago. And it was wild to me that... Like, how much people's minds were blown from the very basic of AI.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
I think most people, you guys can agree or disagree, right now are like, they've replaced Google with chat GBT. Most people are using that in some aspect or form, but that is so elementary to really understanding how to create a prompt is so vital in 2025, 2026. And because the prompting, it's amazing, like you can use ChatGBT to learn more about AI. Right.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so the way that you create the prompt to ChatGBT is going to then dictate how you use AI and everything else, creating automations and everything else. So like that's like base level.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Let's dive in. Yo, so AI is changing the game, especially in the home service and the trade space. Where do you guys see it impacting the most?
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
So I think it's, yeah, how do we integrate it? So first of all, you're wearing a little plaid note pin. So that guy right there, I wear it all the time. It just so happens that mine's charging right now and so I don't have it on, but it's like one of the few times that I don't have it on. So that right there is a game changer in the way that you can utilize AI.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
So one is like, if I have a sales team, people that are out in the field, I am making them wear a wearable AI that is recording. So essentially what this does is it records our whole conversation. It can distinguish between the technician and the customer, right? And it has voice recognition. The only downside is you have to reset it every three hours.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
You just have to turn it on and turn it off to be able to get that voice recognition. But you can then take that information, upload it to ChatGPT and say, give me feedback based off of so-and-so's sales principles. How would you improve this? And also, boom, you get this full feedback or, hey, how would you improve this interaction?
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Or what is an SOP, a standard operating procedure that I can create based off of my interactions that I have with my employees? Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry, I got you back.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Let's go back to the show, baby. And so I just think, like, one, if I'm just starting from ground zero in the AI world, one, I'm getting a... A $30 subscription to ChadGBT. Two, I'm getting a wearable AI that's going to start recording all my interactions. Three, I'm going to give that to my employees. What is it? It's like $20 or $30 a month for the wearable AI? Something like that.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
That is literally the best money that you can spend because now all of a sudden you are present for every single interaction that your employees are having with your customers. Yeah. and you can build real feedback and say, okay, are they doing, are they following this script? And literally like you combine that with chat GBT and there's like automations that kind of push them together.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like, dude, it's pretty mind blowing.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, I got to be careful the way I say this, but like I truly believe like I'm creating an immortal Chris, you know, with this. So like, I mean, with the technology that we have, right? So you have like a company like HeyGen. HeyGen can take a video and mimic my exact tonalities, mimic my exact like hand gestures and everything like that. So you got that.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
And then we have over here, Plod is literally recording everything.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
every single thing that i'm doing and i've i've taken the raw files put in chad gbt and i say hey start talking exactly like me and it's like this is how i talk hey dude what's up like literally has it all so i can imagine there's a day where i take all those raw files with this image and i go have you guys seen those like 3d boxes yeah like the phone booth look and things like dude imagine this right
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
30 years from now, Chris is dead, right? For whatever reason, I get hit by a train, probably something crazy. And my kids, they have this like phone booth that has my image, has all my words, my counsel that I've given to my kids over the years because Plot is always listening to me, always taking these interactions. And now they can go and be like, Dad, what would you do in this situation?
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
How should I handle this? Like, and boom, it's like literally everything, like it thinks, acts, and talks like me. Like, dude,
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Well, you know, it's interesting until now that really only existed in like the film world, right? So Tony obviously has been recorded from stage and everything like that. So that aspect of him exists. But like, what about behind the scenes? And that's where like this comes into place.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's like all of a sudden you get to know Tony or Daryl or Levi behind the scenes, not just what's on camera, what's on stage or whatnot, because like those are two different human beings, right? Like the way that I go and interact with my wife and my kids is going to be a little bit different than when I'm up on stage. And so, yeah, pretty, pretty mind blowing.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
With the one caveat, you got to be paying for it because if you're not paying for it, it's not going to remember all the things.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Dude, it's wild. Literally, AI will teach you about AI, which will teach you about AI. And like, if you're not doing this, one of the best ways, so if you got one of these new iPhones, there's this little hot button up top, right? And you can set the action as opening your chat GBT. So what I do is I have this where it literally just goes right to the verbal.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so I can just start talking with chat GBT. So what up, chat GBT? Hey, can you tell me maybe five things that I should be working on right now? Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
wild, right? So cool. Like dude, like having that. And so to your point is like pulling that up, having a conversation, like just letting chat GBT know what's on your mind. Hey, I'm working with this. I'm thinking about this. I'm doing this. What are your thoughts? Like treat them like it's your best friend that knows everything. Absolutely.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's, uh, it's pretty wild. Like, and, and we're seeing a lot of advancements, especially in the home service space of like where you can use this. So we talked about Chad GBT as a base. We talk about wearables, like helping track your technicians and everything else. But then on top of that, you got things like AI voice, AI text bots.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like yesterday we were spending some time, we're training our tech spot right now. And like, can you walk through like some of those things that we're doing?
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
So let me just speak to whoever's watching or listening to this right now. If you... If you are using the free ChatGPT, you are literally using a model that was created in 2022. We've had so many other models that existed up until 2025. So one, you got to start paying for ChatGPT. That's like baseline entry level, get into the AI game. Outside of that, there are a million and one tools.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
I would compare it to hiring, right? Like, it's easy to get somebody in the door and start doing the basics. It's really hard to get them to, like, follow SOPs. But the cool thing about AI is, like, once you train it, right? Like, once you get it to that point, they never forget. Yeah. An employee freaking forgets.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
So that's a great question. So one, absolutely. It's going to replace jobs. Okay. But new jobs will arise from it. Right. And that's where everyone has business owners. If you have employees, you need to educate them this way. It's like, look. Don't be scared of AI. Utilize AI.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Learn AI because ultimately the positions that are going to exist are people that are managing a group of AI agents that are going and doing all the tasks, but they got to make sure that one, the tasks are being followed correctly.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Two, there's not like, because there has to be fine tuning constantly, like making sure that the customer experience is improved, the communication's improved, everything like that. That is what the future of AI is, is these people managing. And so like the way I look at it, there's one of two outcomes. One, that's the case.
Next Level Pros
#149: Why Most Home Service Pros Will Lose to AI (Unless They Do This) // Next Level Pros Podcast
Or two, the robots do such a good job that who freaking cares because our life is just that much better. Literally do nothing. We don't even have to produce value because the robots are doing it. So now we're just out like hiking, playing with our kids, going boating and stuff. And so it's like there's literally nothing to fear.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Have you ever considered that losing everything may be the greatest opportunity that you have? In today's episode, we're going to go back into the archives and pull out one of my original interviews with Grant Cardone, where Grant shares with us how going from a $10 million net worth to almost losing everything was the foundation of building his billion dollar empire.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
At a minimum, your vehicle that you're selecting is a car, and you're most likely looking at a plane, right? Like you're going to Japan here in a little bit, right? Would you ever consider swimming to Japan? Absolutely not. Can't swim either. Yeah. And the reason is because the goal is completely different, right?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like if we were in an Olympic-sized pool and we were like the other side, even though you can't swim very well, you would consider swimming to that distance. And so like this is the power of the 10X rule and what Grant teaches and it's a very sound principle. Like think huge.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
identify identify vehicles that can get you there and all of a sudden you're going to be able to back it up with massive clear action and and i think that goes down to like the theory that we talk about clarity you want to share like what clarity does for us hey guys it's chris if you're finding value in what you're hearing go ahead and like and subscribe that way people just like you can find this content for free here on youtube now let's dive back in the show
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
So really doing the work, mapping it out, having a clear road plan. And I think with all those things, it's important to have a mentor that actually can show you the way that has run the path themselves. Like that's why the NLS system works because we've done it.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
But on top of that, the reason why I've been able to develop the NLS system is because of so many other mentors that took my hand and helped me along the way. It's like willingness to, going back to even Grant, right? Like willingness to admit you're wrong that you need to make a change.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Those things allow us to look and ask for help versus like ego Chris at age 27, I wasn't willing to ask for help. Like I thought I knew everything and therefore I continued to struggle until I asked for the life raft out there.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yep. And I think the other just caution there is like, yeah, just because you were a part of it doesn't mean you can go out and do it on your own. I made that mistake as well early on. I'm like, I do all this, man. I can go and own a business. There's a lot to it.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
And again, the reason why we promote like be a part of a community, be among other business owners that are doing it so that you can bounce ideas, share the wins, share the losses. Like those things are like just so, so, so important.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
There's been so many. One, right now with what we're building with Next Level, because we've gotten so clear in the last few months of exactly what our mission is, what our direction is, the levels of action that I'm taking right now in the business, freaking dialed in. obviously Solgen, right? Like because we were so clear, just going back to the concept of like clarity triggers action.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
And because you're just so excited, like you know exactly that if I do this, I get this result. If I do this, I get this result. And you're going after big, crazy, hairy, audacious goals.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
One of my favorite examples of massive action, it was actually both of our lives. So when I went through bankruptcy, we had immediately launched another company called K2K Alarm. And so it was at the moment just under Daryl's name because like I was going through like, all these like collections and trying to get it all out.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
But during that time, it was like one of the most sweet times of my life in which it was just like getting back to the grind. I remember going every single day up to Quincy, Washington. It was in the middle of December. I was in the process of filing bankruptcy, started the process in November, finally filed in January. But during those two, three months there,
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
We were out knocking doors in a foot, two feet of snow, selling alarm systems, trying to pay the bills. And like those are like some of the sweetest, like most like core memories. I look back and just think of like that is when like I knew there was something greater and I just have to push through and do whatever it takes to get there.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, it was humbling, but it also set the table for kind of the rest of my life is that like when you scale a business, you stop doing a lot of like the ground level work. Right. But the mentality that this helped create was like, I never want to put myself above or being willing to do the work. And so even even with what we're building right now with that next level. Right.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like I am committed. Like, yes, I want to have this huge sales team again. Right. Like we built a 300 man sales team. And I want to get next level back up to that point of coaches and everything else. But in the meantime, as I'm building it, like I've got to be willing to get back on the proverbial doors and sit down and do sales calls and coaching calls and everything else with community members.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so like even right now, I'm going through that. I'm back on. Even right now, I mentally have, just in the last month, been going back to Quincy. I love it.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
So you took the personal accountability, right? You're like, this is not on anybody else. This is on me.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
But, yeah, like, I think that's just, like, a key principle. If people can just, like, get over their ego. Because, dude, I got a lot of freaking egos still to this day. And I got a lot of reasons why I shouldn't go back to Quincy. Right? Like, I've already done it. Got two nine-figure exits under the belt. Got plenty of money in the bank account. Got assets on assets on assets.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
I've got relationships with guys like Grant Cardone. I've got all the things that what most people would say matter. But like, and then I just got to check my ego and say, yo, none of that crap matters. What matters is that you're always willing, always willing to go back to Quincy no matter what, no matter where you're at in life and figure it out, figure out like how to scale.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Because like when you grow a business, you have to go through that process. If you're unwilling to go through that process, your business will never grow.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 374-7554. That's 374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Let's go.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Let's go. Guys, we appreciate you watching. A couple of takeaways from the episode. realize that your biggest failures could lead to your largest success if you can buy into an incredible vision, take massive action, and always be willing to go back to Quincy. Until next time.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
He'll dive in and share with us how thinking bigger is the only thing that allowed him to pull himself up by his bootstraps and regain it all. And one of the craziest things that when he wrote the 10X rule, one of the best sellers in the self-development industry was written for himself as a personal manifesto to be able to take himself to the next level.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's amazing. Yeah. I think in your book, Be Obsessed or Be Average, you actually refer to the 10X rule that it was kind of like your personal manifesto that basically it was a rule book that you were writing for yourself that you wanted to live by. And so I think that's so awesome. And I think it's important for just listeners and whatnot to understand that nobody's got to figure it out.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Even if we write it and think we have it figured out, we really all have to go and do the work and so you wrote the book and then you started basically living the book yeah exactly Awesome. So in the comments, I would love you to share a few things that you learned just from watching that clip with Grant. So guys, what were your guys' main takeaways from this?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
I think, you know, as I became like top tier in door knocking industry, right? Like I would be out there knocking doors and top performer. Like I was number three out of 3000 reps. Right. But my excuses just got better during that time. Right. Like, so I would have three sales on the day. It would be six o'clock. I knew I needed to be knocking until 10 PM and like little thoughts would creep in.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like, Hey, you know, go home, enjoy a nice little meal with the wife. You're out here by yourself. You have nobody you got to take home or nobody's going to expect you to do more than three. Like you've already hit your quota for the day, right?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
After we hear from Grant, we're going to come back and remark and share a few of our thoughts. Let's dive in. Take me back to the middle of the crash. You're worth a couple million bucks. You're 50 years old or just after 50. What's going through your mind? What decision did you make at that point that's catapulted you to this amazing success.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like you can always, you're going to, you can always do a little bit more tomorrow or by selling more today, you're actually going to take sales from tomorrow.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. So I think, you know, we were actually talking this off camera You know, change really starts with you got to feel some sort of motivation to change, right? Like you're either inspired by a book or maybe the pain is so great that you want to change. I think in Grant's instance, right, he lost everything. It's like, dude, I got to change, right?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Otherwise, it's just going to continue to be painful. So it's either like... I feel some external motivation from a friend, a speaker, an author, or it's so bad that I have to make some changes. I think it kind of starts there with a feeling. But then the second thing, which Grant talks about, is like the truth, right? Like identifying the lies that we're telling in our lives.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
the things that we've allowed ourselves to believe up until this point. And so Grant clearly, you know, this interview took place, you know, 15 years after the fact of this actual thing. So it's easy for him to look back and be like, yeah, man, I effed up. I screwed this up. But I mean, was that what he was telling himself in the moment? I think he had to eventually get there.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
But sometimes in those moments, it's really hard to admit, man, I suck. I'm effed up. This is my fault. And take like full ownership and responsibility.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I don't think I'm saying don't make mistakes. You've got to learn. But it's just like owning the truth. When I win, it was a win. When it was a loss, it was a loss. Because a lot of times whenever we have a loss, we try to justify why we lost. Or believe certain things that allow us to continue to take less action. And so it's like...
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
When you start from a baseline of like, I suck at this, I want to improve it, it's much easier to go. But then also, like to your point, is like be completely okay with failure.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
So I think, I think one thing to definitely be learned from Grant Cardone and even from like my own personal experience in this situation is like when you're willing to lose it all, like when you, or you actually go to zero, you quickly realize none of the possessions matter. None of the actual physical things. Cause those come and go. And so it's really about experience.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
So then when you're talking about like, I don't know what action to date take, um, You're not you're not scared to take action because you don't care whether you win or you lose. Right. And so like that's I think the key to anybody that wants to change their life is just understanding that action is the key and take it the best way you know how.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Go and learn from mentors, study YouTube channels, go to a podcast, whatever. Take some action. If it works, it works. Do some more of that. If it doesn't, stop doing that. And don't be so worried about the physical possessions that come and go.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
I think one of the biggest things to take from Grant, obviously, is just from his book, The 10X Rule. The whole premise of that book is that in the moment, take massive action, right? Like, if you think to hit this goal, you need to do these things, do 10 times that amount of thing, and you'll for sure get that result. So if you think that you need to knock 10 doors open,
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
to get one sale, knock a hundred doors and you'll guarantee yourself that sale. And I think that's probably like the biggest lesson that Grant Cardone has given to the world is like the rule of massive action. Again, this book was actually written as a manifesto for himself. right?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like he was designing like, man, what do I need to do to get myself out of this terrible situation in which my net worth almost went to zero and I want to go and, you know, obviously he's always been a big thinker and everything like that. He just realized I got to have massive action. And then on top of that, having these massive goals backed by massive action, it actually motivates, right?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like nobody, nobody gets stoked about like, Hey, let's, you know, have McDonald's for lunch. No, dude, let's figure out how we can have steak for lunch every single day, right? People get in. And then when you identify a destination, this is a key thing, right? So say you have a goal. And that goal is you want to have a million dollars in your bank account, okay?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
What if you change that goal and you're like a hundred million dollars and you wanted to do in the same timeframe, say it was like two years and you had this two year goal to put a million bucks in your bank account or five year goal to put a million dollars in your bank account.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
The action required to put $100 million in your bank account is drastically different than the action to get $1 million in your bank account. So you can figure out real low ways to get that million bucks over the next five years. But there are zero low ways to get $100 million in a bank account in five years.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so now what you start thinking about is the different vehicles that are going to require, right? Like, To go and get a million bucks, I can think of a lot of different ways. It's like, well, I can get a job that pays me $300,000 a year. I can live off of $100,000 a year, and the extra $200,000 a year goes to savings, and then I have a million dollars account. So now I'm thinking real low.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
I'm thinking employment. I'm thinking sales. I'm thinking something else where... that solution for a hundred million dollars doesn't fit the model, right? Like there's nothing in this world that I can just go and sell or be employed by to be able to get a hundred million dollars in my bank account.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
So now I got to start thinking about like, what would provide a hundred million dollars worth of net value at the end of the day? And so now I'm starting thinking about building rocket ships, settling Mars, right? Doing all these different things. And so like goals are And in a plan to get to those goals, I think that's also very important here, right?
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
Like you can't just have like this massive goal of like a hundred million and I'm just going to work hard, right? You're going to be like, you got to start thinking about the different avenues, the different, like am I taking a jet or am I taking a bicycle, right? Right. And so it just I think was it Myron that talks about like if you want to go and run a mile. Oh, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
So one of my favorite metaphors in regarding to this is when you pick a distance that you have to go. So say we all selected a mile distance, and that was the goal of what you wanted to go and achieve. You have a lot of different ways that you can go a mile. You would consider walking a mile.
Next Level Pros
#140: How To 10x Your Outcome // Recapping Our Grant Cardone Interview // Next Level Pros Podcast
You would consider running a mile, getting on a bike, and potentially even consider a car, just kind of depending on how close it is. Now, you change that distance to 10,000 miles or 1,000 miles. There's no way in heck you are considering walking, running. You might consider a bike. That would be crazy. That's going to take you, you know, a long time to be able to do on a bike.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
The last two years, the solar industry has been an absolute bloodbath. Companies like Titan, Lumio, Solstice, ADT Solar, SunPower, and now Sunova is threatening bankruptcy. They continue to shut their doors. Why? Because solar businesses keep running their solar companies like sales reps, allowing the tail to wag the dog and running the red line model.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
That freaking destroys the industry. And I am going to be the, I'm gonna shout that from the rooftops. You're gonna disagree with me. You're like, but Chris, it's so great to make all these commissions and all these different things. But guess what? Why do you think we've been experiencing what we've been experiencing in the industry for the last two, three years? It's because of this crap, okay?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
At the end of the day, if I as the company want to set the price, I should be able to have the additional benefit of charging more so that I can go and add additional to this experience. I can hire better people, I can provide a better product, I can go into my total customer experience mapping. Versus the sales rep charges more and I get nothing more to be able to deliver to that customer.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So first of all, gotta stop running our sales companies, our businesses like a sales rep. I come from a background of being a sales rep, and this is the hardest thing about being an entrepreneur, is not to put myself back into the shoes of where I once was, okay? And think like, oh, I want the highest commission, or I want this, I want that, or whatever, right?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So priorities, in fact, I was having a discussion with a guy earlier, and he's on the install side, and he's like, yeah, you know, I make all my decisions based off of like, do they put the customer first? And he's like, don't you agree? And I was like, I was like, no, I don't. I don't agree. In fact, I think most people have their priorities completely jacked up.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So most guys, their priorities are customer, employees or reps, and then company. And what happens is It's like I either charge the customer more or less or whatever, do what I think to take care of the customer, then I take care of the reps. And if there's a little bit of money left over, then I take care of the company.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
The reality is the only way that you're going to run a business that is worth anything and going to provide value to anyone, number one has to be company. And I tell you this from personal experience. My very first business, I made decisions on this model. I charged the customer less. I paid the rep more. So it was like, this is where I should have been charging. I charged here.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
This is where I should have been paying. And I paid here. And just with that little leftover, I was trying to survive. Versus if I build a model that takes care of the company first, then... I can take care of those people that I employ, and I'm going to dictate. Again, I'm not going to let the tail wag the dog. I'm not going to pay on a red line model.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
I'm not going to overcompensate from a commission standpoint. I am going to dictate and provide an incredible experience that's going to be able to take care of these people and provide a steady paycheck, opportunity for growth, development, potential equity upside, whatever it is. And then... So that's my employees or my team. And then the customer will always be taken care of.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Because ultimately when my first business went out of, in a second, when my first business went out of business, when we filed bankruptcy, guess who got screwed? The customer. The customer got hosed. Nobody was there to answer their phone calls. Nobody was there to service their systems. Nobody was there to take care of any of those type of things. Totally hosed because why?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Because I put them first. Because I did what I thought I was supposed to be doing to serve them. Bull crap, I gotta serve the company. I gotta make sure this thing is super freaking healthy, it's gonna be in business for the next 20, 30, 40 years, and the way I do that is with high profit margin. And I can't do that under a red line model. And then, guess who got screwed?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Man, I had people calling me up, like Chris, you screwed me, I'm out here in Houston, I have a 12 month lease, and I've been here three months, I don't have a way to put food on the table. But I thought you wanted a higher pay scale.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
How many of you guys are currently involved either in the sales side or the installation side of the solar industry? Okay. And of those people, how many of you are not on a red line model? Okay, so first of all, congratulations to those that are not a part of the status quo. I love to call the red line the status quo, okay?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
That's literally what was going through my mind. But guess what? Because I didn't put the company first, I could not take care of them. So ultimately, we have to build a model that is this. So this is the model that I teach and I preach across the board. Direct cost needs to be 40%.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And the way that you're gonna calculate this if you are a sales dealer is you have to calculate in your EPC model into your direct cost, because that's your direct cost. And you gotta take the total revenue that you receive after any dealer fees. That's your true revenue. That's what's getting paid. Even though your installer may be paying you after the fact, you paid for their services.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Now, one key thing to realize here, I teach how to get to a 25% net margin, but it is impossible if you are splitting those margins. So the only way that you can actually successfully get there in the solar industry is you have to do sales and installation. If you don't do, that 25% is going to be split between you and the installer from a net profit standpoint.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And so you have your revenue, which is 100%. You have your COGS, which is 40%, giving you a 60%. Now this is a target. Sometimes it's not completely attainable. Sometimes it's a little bit difficult to get to. We ran our solar business between 56 to 57%. Now, I understand markets change and all the excuses.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Everybody's got an excuse of why you can't do this or why it doesn't work or whatever else. I promise you this is possible. This is being implemented today in today's markets by solar companies, by roofing companies, by freaking all different types of service companies across the board. They're using this model and having success. From there, you have sales and marketing. this has to be 20%.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And we're talking 20% of the total revenue, not 20% of what is given to you as a sales dealer, 20% of the total revenue. So for example, if you have, if you are net charging after dealer fees and everything, $4 a watt, you have 80 cents to sales and marketing. And the key thing here is to understand, first of all, what is sales and marketing?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
A lot of guys are like, well, I run a door-to-door program. That is both sales and marketing. Marketing is when they knock on the door and get somebody interested. Sales is what happens at the table, right? So marketing on Facebook is your marketing, sitting at the table over Zoom is the sale, okay?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And typically, the way that I structure this is a 10 and 10 model, 10% to marketing and 10% to sales. Again, no red line model, we're talking percentage of revenue that you pay, okay? Now, the key thing here to understand is we're talking 10% to the whole sales organization, not 10% to your reps.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And I know that may hurt for some of you guys that are like, oh, but I'm a sales dealer, or I'm this or I'm the other. But guess what, there's a reason why it's called the red line, because that's what created the bloodbath, okay? It's red for a reason. It's not because it's profitable. I've never seen any profits in red. They come in black.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
We're talking about full-stack, five-year plan, exactly what it's gonna look like to have a vice president, a director of sales, a regional manager, a team lead, and seven people under each one of those team leads. That whole stack has to be paid with 10%. Now, if you have, again, a door-to-door model and you're purely door-to-door, now you have 20% to deal with.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
But the key thing is like when you bring on other marketing type strategies, whether it's Facebook or cold email or whatever it is, that is coming from here and you have to reduce the amount of compensation and you have to have a completely different structure for that type of marketing strategy, okay? So you had a question.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Yeah, so when you're talking about your employees, are they W-2 or are they 1099? So I built my organizations off of W2. I mean, the reality is regulation is completely changing. You've seen it happen across the board of California, whatever else. And 1099 is really difficult to be able to have any real equity value, right?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Because for somebody to technically be 1099, they have to be able to have contracts with everybody else, right? Like they can't be using any company tools. They can't be showing up and they're, and having mandatory meetings, all the things that actually build a real organization, you can't do under a typical 1099.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
You may be able to do with like five to 10 people, but if you want to build something that's actually worth value, you can't. So again, so when we're talking like top to bottom, this is the ideal stack that you're looking at. Again, if you are not the sales and the installer, 10% of the total revenue stack should be what the installer is making from a net profit standpoint.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And let me give you an idea. They are taking 10%, say this is like $4. Say this is $4, and they're taking 10%, that means they're making 40 cents, and say they're redlining to you at 210, 220, they should be able to run their whole operations off of a buck 70, a buck 80, and make 40 cents. Does that make sense? You guys following?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And so 15% of the total stack is what you should be netting out of $4 a watt if you're just a sales-only installer. This is the ideal structure, okay? Again, not always obtainable, but if you have a target, if you know what your numbers are and you're actively designing and working towards it,
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
It becomes way more, way more obtainable versus what has gone on a lot in the solar industry where guys don't know their numbers operating off of red line models. Right. Just completely, completely destroying their market because of this red line. Again, the reason why a red line is red is because one. Red numbers aren't profitable.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And two, that's where all the blood comes from in the streets right now. Dude, it is the destruction of our industry. Does anybody have any more questions regarding this stack and how to properly build that out from an overall budgeting standpoint? That's a great question. So how do you keep guys motivated?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
so you're tired of it hopefully so what we do is we teach what's called the eight pillars for growth so now i run a company called next level pros and my intention today is that i can provide some value to you that you're going to be able to go and take into your businesses that you're going to be able to apply and that hopefully you'll have a desire to have an additional conversation with me
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Here's the thing that I'll tell you about sales reps that I've seen over the last, because I've been in this industry since 2014. 2014, the industry in California was almost where it is at today. Like it was super saturated in 2014. Almost like nothing has drastically changed. So here's the thing, if you pay a sales rep, everybody has a number. I don't care who you are or what you believe.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
How many deals do you think that they will sell under this model? They'll sell freaking two and we've seen it. We've seen as the whole industry has shifted over to a red line, all it's done is decreased the actual volume of accounts that are being sold on a per rep basis. Those reps aren't making more money and guess who's really getting screwed?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
If as an installer, you are doing it for less and less and you're getting less and less volume, nobody freaking wins. And so how do you guys keep them motivated? First of all, help them understand this principle, and be transparent with the sales rep is absolutely imperative.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Like, yo, look, you can go and work for somebody else and yeah, they're gonna tell you you're gonna do this, or you could be here where we're actually gonna take care of your customer, we're gonna provide value, we're gonna train you and develop you, you're gonna have, You're going to have five times the amount of referrals because you have a large customer base.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
You're actually going to feel motivated and fulfilled because you're doing real work instead of treating this like some half-paid job on the side and doing two deals a month. Like, and you actually provide value outside of pay. Again, customers do not buy because of price and reps do not work for you because of commission. It is the biggest lie that has ever been told.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And I'll tell you from personal experience, when I owned my business, my home security business, I could go out and sell and make $1,500 in account. And in fact, after my first company failed, I started up a small home security dealer, and I did that, and I made $1500 in account. Then, I decided to swallow my pride and go back to work for somebody else, to go work for Vivint.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Guess how much I made at Vivint? $550 in account. A third of what I was making as the dealer, where do you think I made more money? I freaking made three times the amount of money working at Vivint at $550 an account than I did working for myself at $1,500. Why?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Because Vivint provided the systems, the support, the culture, the development, the brotherhood, everything that I loved about knocking on doors came from Vivint. And there are, and if you continue to pay on a red line model, you just will not be able to invest in that type of an experience. So this is the typical structure under the 10% model. I'm going to provide them leads. Okay.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And a sales rep is going to make between three and a half to two, four and a half percent. If somebody else set it for them. And it was a lead generated. And this is going to fluctuate based on monthly production. Then there's a team lead that's going to make an override. And then there's also a setter that's involved. And a setter is going to make between 1% to 2%.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So you'll see several different people wearing these shirts in the crowd and we're running a booth over here. My whole goal of this is that to give you value so much that you'll want to book a call and dive in and see if we're a good fit. So we run a training platform which I teach my exact model to be able to go and scale any company. I don't care if you're a solar company, any space.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
But again, we're providing leads for that, okay? And then what that does is it allows for the full stack to be able to fit within 10 total compensation, incentives, management, development, training, all fits in my total 10% stack. And what happens when you pay on a compensation structure like this, instead of guys selling two a month, these guys are gonna sell 12 to 15 a month.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So this is another one of my theories. I hate recruiting A players. Okay? Why? A players think the world is owed to them. A players think that they already got everything figured out. A players think that they should be your boss. A players like all the negative things. I would much rather recruit a C player and train them up to be a B player than I would ever to get a B plus or above.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And so the vast majority building my sales organizations is training guys where I can identify characteristics of a killer versus somebody that's proven themselves in somebody else's model that is completely broken. I would much rather recruit a C-level player, somebody that's maybe had a job at a coffee shop or whatever else, but has demonstrated certain characteristics.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
I use something called the disc analysis. The disc analysis is absolutely phenomenal to be able to identify great characteristics. A high D, high I is an A player from a characteristic standpoint, even though they may have not demonstrated it in their previous work experience. How many of you guys are getting some value? You getting some good stuff? All right.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Again, if you are getting some value, I would recommend that you book a call. Again, we can dive into your individual needs and what you're building in your organization. I will go over it. Again, no high-pressure sales. If it's fit, it's fit. If it's not, that's fine. The only reason I work today is because I love training and developing, providing value to different industries.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
It's what gets me excited. I tried retirement for six weeks, absolutely sucked. And I'm like, I got to get back. I got to get back. I love being in the grind. I love being with the people. I love building teams. So again, so if you're finding value from what you're seeing, book a call. Happy to go through some different things. So I'm going to touch on the last different pillars.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
I think we've got about six more minutes, and then we'll do some Q&A real quick. Expansion is the other pillar, which is your marketing, your sales, your financial growth strategy. Impact quadrant, this is like a specific thing to make sure that you are not wearing the wrong hats within your organization.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
A lot of us are spending most of our time doing unproductive tasks in our business where we could actually go and hire and replace ourselves and be in the things that what we call quadrant four, which is high energy, high value. That's the goal in business. Don't have too much time to go through that.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
The systems, the procedures, processes, the checklist, the tools, software, stack, AI integration. How many of you guys are utilizing AI right now in your business? Okay, so let me give you just a couple good goodies to take away. There's a lot of softwares that you can download on your phone, which are great, but you've got to remember to turn them on and everything else.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
This little guy that I'm wearing, you guys have probably seen it, the Plod Note. It's absolutely game-changing. I've been wearing it for two, three weeks now. And it is unreal, unreal. So I am training a GBT on exactly how I interact, the level of feedback that it can do from a sales.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
We consult hundreds of companies throughout the nation, in fact, throughout the world on what we call our eight pillars for growth. I'm gonna briefly touch on these eight pillars and I'm gonna dive deep into a couple of them where we're gonna be able to help create profitable organizations. How many guys wanna make a profit? Woo, yeah. So how many of you guys are currently hitting 25% net margins?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
If I was sitting in your guys' shoes and had a sales organization, I would require that a guy wears this every single day. It could go for two days of recording based on one charge and literally just get every bit of transcript in there. You could plug that sucker right in GBT And say, give me feedbacks on my sales interactions. Boom. You're going to have it all right there. 30 bucks a month.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
30 bucks a month. You're going to be able to do that. Plaud. P-L-A-U-D. Don't even got an affiliate commission on that sucker, dude. Just go get it. So. And this is also a way that I'm building my SOPs. I'll go and interact with somebody. I'll be like, hey, make sure you do this, this, and this. And I'll go back to, so my assistant downloads the raw files of this.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And I'll be like, hey, make sure you ask about this SOP. Make sure you ask about this. And it'll literally design out all my SOPs, all my sales feedback, all my interactions, everything.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
based off of what i am doing on a day-to-day basis i would be utilizing this with my sales organization top to bottom easiest cheapest money you ever spent any questions other ai stuff dude there's freaking all kinds of ai we go super deep on this somebody had a question no okay Impact is what is our name for KPIs.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
It's indicators, measuring performance, achievement, change, and trends, having proper dashboards, analytics, training and development across the organization, accountability, which all kinds of different things from a feedback loop standpoint, performance reviews, firing, finance, budgets, break evens, knowing your numbers. It's remarkable to me how many people don't know their numbers.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
in this episode i am speaking live to hundreds of solar business owners where i tell them their model is completely broken why the red line model is killing the industry and what you should do about it in this presentation i'm going to teach you exactly how to structure a budget that allows you to hit 25 net margins regardless of the industry that you're in you're also going to learn how to keep your sales reps motivated on a completely different compensation model
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
I was freaking, you know, asking a couple guys out in the hall, I'm like, hey, what is this? And they're like, I don't know. Like, you're going to have to talk to my accountant. I'm like, dude, that is the most important number you should know. We were just talking about net profit. How do you not know where your net profits are? Or how do you not know what your revenue is?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Or different things like that. Creating the educated budgets top to bottom, development of leadership, cadence of meetings, hard conversations, crisis management, perfected communication, and mindset frameworks. These are all the different things that we teach within our community. Again, I would invite you to be a part of it. The cool thing is to be in our community, it's less than the cost of a
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
of a minimum wage employee. It's like having a business, a business partner in your corner without giving up equity. It's the absolute most remarkable thing ever. But the best thing I can tell you, I don't care if you join my community, really don't. Like, don't need your money, but invest to be in the right rooms. That is the number one thing that I would say has changed my life.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
In 2015, I made the decision that every single quarter, I was going to do something. I was going to be at a workshop. I was going to be at a mastermind. I was going to be in the room with somebody that was kicking my ass. in a total performance level. And since 2015, I've spent $1.3 million to be in these types of rooms.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
I've been trained and developed and mentored from some of the greatest, like the things I share with you are just a conglomerate of everything that I have taken from these different mentors. So the best advice I can give to you today is the number one cost on your P&L is opportunity cost. And the way you fix this opportunity cost, it's what I could be doing, what I could be obtaining.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And the number one way that you fix that is you get in the right rooms of people that have ran that map. People that have gone and developed and built it out. Like when I'm hanging with my friends, one of my best friends in the world, Adil Sajjan, he nets 4.33.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
billion dollars a year nets like that is a cool guy to hang around that is a guy that i want to be rubbing my shoulders because that blows my mind i have no idea how to get to 4.3 billion dollars a year in net but i'm going to continue to hang around and do everything possible to be in those right rooms so get in the rooms network with the right people pay for the right programs
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Ultimately, the dollars don't change. It's the time that it takes to achieve those dollars. A million over 20 years or a million over two days is the same exact number. The only thing that changes is time. Figure out ways that you can compress time. Again, the best way that I know how is getting in the right rooms. Guys, I appreciate you coming out if you haven't had a chance.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Would love to chat with you and appreciate you guys coming out.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Okay, how many are not hitting 25% net margins? And how many of you guys are lying because literally only six people raised their hand? Okay, so 25% net margin is very rare, especially in the solar industry. And this is the model that we built on, that we did this at hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue at 25% margins, okay? So we're gonna dive into that.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So my commitment to you today is to get clear help you get clear on exactly what your next move is to help you take one step closer to that 25% net margin. Everyone good with that? Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Don't worry, I got you back. Let's go back to the show, babe. So why should you listen to me? So family man built multiple businesses while raising a family of five kids. Love my wife, love my kids. Been in your shoes, taken very big risks, knocked on a lot of doors. I cut my teeth in the door-to-door industry, in the sales industry. I was one of the top performers.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
I launched my first business when I was 24 years old. That was my Mercedes CLS 500 that I had re-put out of my driveway after my first failed business. And that happened in 2000, end of 2010, beginning of 2011, had everything ripped from me, less than $1,000 in my bank account, started completely over from scratch, it sucked.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Okay, so I've been there, I've taken big risks, I've lost big, I've been hustling for 20 plus years, I've knocked, I've ran the teams, I've done all the different things, but I'm not just another sales guy, I can promise you that. So I've invested over $1.3 million in my personal income. Just recently became a Harvard alumni, part of their owners, presidents, and management program.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
It's an executive program, three-year program there. And again, I built an 1100 person organization, W2 employees, not 1099, W2 employees out of my garage. Okay, so these are just some of the behind the scene videos, things from there. Okay, again, we did 233 million a year in revenue in less than five years.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
We were the sixth fastest growing company in the nation, did all kinds of cool stuff, two different nine figure exits. One was one that I built from scratch, the other one I consulted from scratch, got an equity play on that, and then I had an additional business that I consulted, didn't get equity, that I also exited for nine figures. Okay, so what we teach is what we call God Mode.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
How many of you guys have ever heard the term God Mode? Little bit, so it comes from the gaming space. What does it mean to be in God Mode? Can't be defeated. You play outside of the rules, okay? Most of us are building our businesses in either player one status, right?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Like we're sitting there, we're inside the rules, we have a little bit of autonomy in different things, or sometimes we're even operating like a, my kids call it an NPC, the non-player character, right? Like we're just doing the same thing every single day. We hate our life and we freaking just show up and sell swords or whatever it is that you do in video games.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And so ultimately the goal is to work on your business, not in your business. And what I'm going to teach you is how we operate from God mode, get outside of the game, start working on it to be able to scale it up. Okay.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So first and foremost, the first pillar, again, I'm just going to briefly touch on a few of these things to give you an idea of what we teach and what it looks like to actually build a nine figure organization. So it's what we call design. So designing, is starting with a plan. How many of you guys have a five-year roadmap of how you're building your organizations? One person, okay?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
In addition, we're going to introduce you to the eight pillars for growth in which we teach God mode. So let's dive in.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
One person in this room, okay? We call that the next level plan where you actually design out five years and you work backwards from exactly the way you want your organization to look like and you build it from what we call an execution chart
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
The execution chart is top to bottom, how many sales people, how many management, how many operators, how many installers, how many fulfillment, how many in finance, what does that all look like? That's top to bottom and next level plan with the exact roadmap of how you're gonna be able to do it. One thing that I love to say is there's no such thing as lazy people.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Absolutely, there's no such thing as lazy people, only unclear people. When you do not have a clear plan of what you are building, That sucks, right? Like you're unmotivated to show up to work. You don't even know why you're taking the daily activity. Maybe it's the way that you feel in the solar industry right now. I'm just like, dude, I'm just grinding. Just trying to survive.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Give me a round of applause. Come on, give me a round of applause. Let's go. Let's get some hoot in the hall. Let's go. Let's go. Okay, so here's what I know about you. So the solar industry is obviously in disarray. It's been a bloodbath. It's been a bloodbath for the last two years. And so you're here because you're committed to the solar industry.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Just trying to make it to my next paycheck, next payroll, next whatever else. How many of you guys have ever felt that way? Okay. Everybody else that isn't raising their hand, you're lying. You're lying. So creating a plan is part of the design process.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
You have to get crystal freaking clear to be able to know exactly what the next action is to take because otherwise you're sitting in a dark tunnel, no light, and you have no idea if I take a step forward even if it's in the right direction. The plan creates clarity, you see exactly where you're going, and so you know that every single step actually matters.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And when you're clear, again, you are motivated, you take the action, you're excited. Again, there's no such thing as lazy people, only unclear people. And so with this is all about designing the vision, the mission, the core values, the execution chart. Like this is absolutely vital where most people absolutely miss.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Again, they don't even know, maybe they planned the next quarter or the next year, but most of them aren't even thinking big enough to be able to go on a five-year roadmap. So that's like one of the absolute imperative parts. That's one of our pillars. And the thing is, is when you get clear on vision, you're able to attract the biggest talent.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
How many of you guys struggle with getting the right talent in the door? Okay. How many would love to just get unlimited talent in through the door? It literally starts with what we're talking about from a design standpoint. Because when I sit down with somebody in my garage and I've got three employees in there, and I say, yo, it may not look like it, But this is what we're gonna do.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So over the next five years, we're gonna have 500 employees. We are going to design. This is exactly what it's gonna look like. You're gonna be coming in at this part of the org structure, the execution chart, and then this is where we're gonna be able to go and scale. You cast a vision. You show them the roadmap of what it looks like to be able to go and obtain that.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
OK, and he who casts the biggest vision with a clear path, not just a big vision. It's not just, hey, we're going to go do all these cool things. It's we're going to do all these cool things. And this is how we're going to get there. You're going to start attracting your ideal, ideal employee. And because the reality is.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Chris Lee has a very big vision, but if Elon Musk called me up today and he said, Chris, I want you to run operations to getting to Mars, I'd be like, ah, shiz, I'd just drop everything and I would go. Why? Because Elon Musk, Chris Lee has a very big vision, but Elon Musk is freaking going for Mars, right? Way bigger vision, and he has a clear direction on how he's going to get there.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
So he would be able to recruit over whatever talent he wants. So that is the basis of the culture. How many guys run sales departments? So a lot of you guys are awesome at this. Culture is all about the human development, the recruiting, recognition, competition, environment of trust. We're not going to go super deep into that.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
But just know that there is a whole lot more to why people are with you than pay. Just like customers don't buy from you because of price, reps and employees do not work for you because of compensation. This is absolutely vital. We don't have enough time to go super deep into it. And at the end of the day, people will bleed for two things and two things only.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
It's not pay, it's culture, and it's a piece of the pie, a way to be able to share in the upside in some level or direction, or at least a vision on how they can go and share in that. Okay, so this is where we're going to dive a little bit deeper in and where most of you guys have things completely screwed up. It's the offer, okay?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
There's a lot of guys that aren't committed to the solar industry that have gone through the grind and they are no longer at the table. OK, and so one, I just want to congratulate you because you are committed. You're not satisfied with mediocrity. You're here to learn, to grow, to develop. You're taking time out of your day to be here with me. So I appreciate that.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And the offer is not just what am I charging, but what kind of value am I providing to my customer, both internal and external? What kind of value am I providing to my employee, to my client? to my residential solar customer, to what are the different services, everything like that, and going through and mapping out an experience.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
How many of you guys have your customer experience completely mapped out? Again, we have three hands. Okay, so going through and actually understanding what differentiates you from every single other person on the block, because ultimately, This is one of my core principles of running business. There's no such thing as competition. No such thing as competition.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Competition is only the pain that you are solving. Just because ABC Solar down the street offers X, Y, and Z does not make them the same product or service that you offer. So mapping out and experiencing, identifying ways that you are going to be completely different to your customer is absolutely imperative.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
From that, you're going to be able to go back and that goes back to the designs factor and be able to identify what employees you need in your organization, but then also really develop out the offer and exactly what you're going to do to separate. Then there comes the pricing. So again, how many of you guys are running on a Redline model? Why is Redline terrible?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
Or, I mean, you guys all probably think it's fantastic. Okay, so we have a red line. Installer. Sales rep, whatever. This is what customer pays. Why is that terrible? Tell me, come on. You've thought about this. What's that? Oh, okay, so first of all, I think there's no morality in price. That's a bunch of bull crap. There's no such thing as a moral price.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
I don't care who you talk to or whatever else, doesn't exist. There's only morality in the way that you offer something to a customer. If they know exactly what they're getting and exactly what they're paying, there is no morality in price, okay? So... Redline, the reason why a redline is absolutely death is that this is what it takes to deliver that customer.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
This is the cost of goods sold, this is the experience, this is all the talent that's directly related to that customer getting it. So it doesn't matter where they pay, they get the same exact experience. So my plea to the solar industry, to any industry as a whole, is to stop letting the tail wag the dog.
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And what I mean by that is sales organization, sales people wagging the dog and determining what price the customer pays and the value that you're actually able to deliver to that customer. Because again, this customer could be paying $3 a watt, they could be paying $4.50 a watt, they could be paying $10 a watt, and still they get the $2.20 watt experience, okay?
Next Level Pros
#146: This is Why The Solar Industry is Dying
And hopefully you are tired of the status quo in solar. OK, so for those that do know me, know that I am not a status quo guy. All right. So everybody else built their solar businesses this way. I was completely this direction. Okay. I'm one of a handful of companies that was actually able to exit in this space. And it was because of the way that we built. It wasn't the status quo.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
My favorite song? Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
I mean... I don't know why I started thinking Garth Brooks, but that was more when I was young.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
I think one of the things I learned early on in my sales career was I would mirror the customer and then I would have it shift to where they became, they were near me. And that's when I knew that I had the control or I had the- They were starting to qualify to you.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
You know, it's interesting. You're saying this in regards to sales. I think this applies also to recruiting. Yeah. You want the people to defend why they should be a part of your vision and your company.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
So it's a very applicable principle.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
Listening to you, I know one of your top students.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
Like I said, he sounds so much like you.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
Which I also want to ask you why.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
I would say that some people suffer to feel dignified. And so they hold on to the suffering.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
Other people go through the suffering to learn so they can move, move away.
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
So what does this business look like in five, 10 years? Like, where do you, where are you trying to land?
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
So, so look at the industry, the sales industry, um, What businesses are needing salespeople the most? And then as a salesperson, what are the best opportunities that you see if you're looking for a good opportunity?
Next Level Pros
#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality
So would you say there's like a ticket size that if you have a ticket size of at least this, There's a level where you'll make... I see a lot of truth to that.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yes, sir.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Question for you real quick. When you were growing your business, did you build that to sell? No. What point did you see that as an exit?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, I know I had kids over, my daughter had some friends over and I asked all of them, what are you doing for college? And then I asked them, do you guys know about trades? And do you know how good it is? And just trying to like influence them. Cause I didn't know until I had a business that trades was such a good opportunity.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I own I own a drill. Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think the irrelevant conversation, which you can see in like a sales department and a technician department is like, which one's more important? Yeah. They're both. They're both important. Yeah. But yet you see them all the time. Technicians are like, well, if we don't do our job, then the sales guys don't matter.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And then sales guys are like, well, if we don't do our job, then technicians don't have any work. We get all the revenue. Yeah. It's like, but, but if you, if you go into your business as a technician, right, it can be easily, you can, you can stick to that position where it's like my work is my marketing or something like that. And you just limit yourself.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So on Instagram, I see all these posts about like buying retired businesses where people are retiring and just talking about what you guys are talking about. Those businesses struggle because they don't have sales. Right? So if you're a very sales driven person, it'd be a good opportunity for you to go find a business that wants to like retire, business owner wants to retire.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah. Go in there with a sales focus, not a technician focus and build that business.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Um, but what I was going to say about what you just said, as far as recruiting your top talent into management is one of the biggest mistakes that a lot of businesses make, because a lot of times they actually are decreasing their pay. They're not management material and they're happier as a leader in the, in the tech, in the, their sales or technician.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It can be, but it's not a,
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
But I like what you're saying. I think we should be training all of our people to be leaders. Because then you see the ones that rise up.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
It's really tough because sometimes when you're in that spot, you don't know what you're looking for, right? And so I think it's looking for track records or people that have worked with them. Amen. And then kind of like Chris was saying is what's their track record? It's interesting.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
The people that we see like tons of change in their business and success, they're implementing some of the most simple things, some basic things. And so, like, that's the thing is it's really tough to when you're in that shoe, when you're grinding all the time, like it's really hard to see these simple things that need to be adjusted. And so it's one of those things where you just got to do it.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Like the worst case scenario is you pick the wrong person and then you pick the right person next. Right. Making a decision, I think, is more important because I think a lot of people just don't make the decision because they're worried about getting burnt. I mean, who hasn't been burnt? Everybody. Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
But it's like the quicker you get burnt, the quicker you can make the right decision or find the right person and learn from it.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think I need to go along with that. A truly successful person always wants to share. That's right. Like they're the most open people.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think that brings up a good point is like reach out, start talking to people. Yeah, because people want to people want to see success, surround themselves with people that are successful. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So, so it's a good question. And I think, I mean, my real answer is like my, my kids, um, you know, I, I travel a lot. I, you know, I'm, I'm with my kids and I travel a lot. I have four girls, um, four girls. Um, but I think like the decisions I'm making like echo into their lives. And so like, for me, it's like, I've got kids, my youngest is seven, um,
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And I want to live a life that's inspiring them to be their best. And so for me, it's like, what am I doing that does that? Same with my wife, right? The people closest to me. And then, and then it goes from there and my friends and business partners.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I would say I grew up on the farm and there was just like no option on the farm. It was work hard, go to bed, wake up, work hard. It was just the same thing. And then once I started doing door-to-door sales, I started thinking, man, there's opportunity. I can create opportunity from nothing. And then it was, you know, me and Chris have done several businesses that just didn't work out.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And I know the grind and I know how hard it is. And so for me, I love helping people skip those steps that are not necessary. Like the grind, like just struggling is not as necessary as we sometimes want it to be. And so just helping people jump past those steps and actually have success, I love it. I loved it. I loved our business.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I loved when we had people coming in, making a career in their sales, making a sales career, technicians that would come in and get their license and then their lead techs making great money. I love people. I see people improving their lives and just having success that they didn't think possible.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
How do you how do you limit, though? Because there's tons of problems. How do you limit your focus so that you can really accomplish the end goal?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think another thing that's going on is the amount of money that's pumping into private equity is massive. Margins are strong. Well, see, was it the Milken Institute that Bryce went to? So he has a conference that my brother went to and he was shown, they're showing him how like the money that's going into the market, the stock market versus private equity.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Private equity is outpacing the stock market.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I have a question for you. So you built in California. Yes, sir. So you obviously had like some of the toughest regulatory state. Still do. How is that? Like Washington, we had some big challenges working with the governments here, but I'm just curious on California.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Exactly.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And, like, how do I operate within that? I think kids too, if they're going into trades, like states like Washington are great because it is really hard to find those type of people and they get paid well.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
People are mentally weak. Oh yeah. Like there's just a lot of weakness bred in our society. And maybe it's because of the luxuries we have, but like we need mental toughness. Physically, you can do so much more than you think you can.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
So when I left for college, I decided to go on a mission. I had some time I had to figure out what to do with. I was trying to figure out who do I know? It's rich. And my sister from my sister, I heard things about this guy, Jeff. I'm like trying to figure out a work for him. But anyways, I go to work for him. And at the time, like money was like the most scarce thing in the world.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Like and so to be around someone who who in my perception had a lot of money, He treated he always treated people better than he like money was like the secondary thing. And it was good for me to see that because I just I hadn't been around someone who had money. And he set an example for me that I think has impacted me the rest of my life of like never put money over people.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
All the time. All the time.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I mean, to be honest with Jeff, he gave me so many different loans. Like I needed one for a car. I didn't have like credit. So he gave me money for that. Like he would just and he didn't even like he didn't have any obligation to as well. But he was a guy that was always there to help and like.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
What about your other aspects of life, like your health, relationships, spirituality? Like what what are like some mentors or what? How are you developing there? Like what are the things you use or tools? Tyler, is there anything in those categories that you're working on or?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
That's awesome.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
What about you, Chris?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And he talks really highly about her.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I think there's more to it too. It's like what you see, but it's also what you feel. This place has got a feeling to it that I love. Like when I walk in here, I'm like, wow, the magic's here. Like you feel it. There was a guy who helps manage the property, brought an elder from the island here. And he said when he came up on the property, he started weeping.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
You know, I think like I think if someone's struggling
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
think if someone's struggling um like in their business or maybe in their relationship or maybe their health they should look at something else that they're they're also avoiding and start working on that yeah in other words let's say i'm struggling financially i should look at my health and figure out how to optimize my health yep if i'm struggling my relationship
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I should figure out how to like figure out another aspect of my life that I could improve. That's not so maybe heavy or overcomplicated and fix that first. I think, I think a lot of times people get so stuck on the one thing when, like you said, these principles overlap amongst themselves.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And so I think if you can like take the pressure off of this is way too complicated to fix my relationship with my, in my marriage, it's, it's too complicated. I don't know what to do.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Yeah. And he said he just felt like this was a very like sacred area, sacred space. Yeah. And so it's cool when you're here. You feel good. It feels I call it the tree house because you're like up high. You got the river down below and you got these trees, massive trees all around you that are kind of encompassing.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
uh it's it's like one of the easiest ways to create a ripple effect is like just start chalking up wins on the physical side and and like i said nine times out of ten is gonna transfer over so i'm kind of experiencing a transformation physically um i feel like the last few years i've learned a lot of stuff from you know meditation tony robbins a lot of these different things i mean you're showing it off today geez i'm in hawaii no sun's out but um anyways i remember the beginning of the year i'm thinking
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
i've been i feel like i've gone through this transformation internally i need to like make it external and so i've been like lifting weights really focused on my diet eating a lot better um and that's been good what's really interesting is um when we were in boston i went and did that half marathon that was wild and do you guys know about this oh my gosh yeah
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
So, so I, I don't run, I haven't ran at all. And I heard these guys were doing a marathon and I'm sitting in class, been sitting there all week. I'm thinking, could I do a half marathon? I don't know. Like 13 miles seems like pretty dang far.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And anytime I have a dumb idea, I try to rope Chris in, but he didn't.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
But it was interesting. I ran it and my goal is to not stop running and I did. Wow. It was...
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Oh, or further, like 10 years.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
But it was interesting because you didn't stop running.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
That was my whole goal. I was like, I will not stop running.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
So I had a friend running with me and while we were running around mile two or three, he says, Darrell, if this isn't your pace, if you're running slower than your pace, you're going to hate it. Like you make sure you're going your pace, but then don't go faster than your pace because it'll also burn you out.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
So around mile five, he was like, it was, our pace was a little, like just a little faster than he wanted to go. Cause he, he runs a lot. And, um, and so he started to like kind of back off. Who is this? Uh, Fabio. Okay. And so then I'm like, Fabio. Yeah. So I decided, you know what? I'm going to stick to my pace. I feel like it's good. And so around mile five, we separated.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Um, so the first mile was like forever. I was like, when's this first mile going to end? And then I'm like, right. Mile two. mile three and then they started to kind of click off and like just take one mile at a time and then What was wild was the people on the sideline cheering?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Yeah, I was like I would I would say probably not the nicest things about them from an outside perspective but now having ran a race like I finished because of those people. It was just them cheering and stuff that gave me energy to keep going. It was being in that whole group of people that gave me the energy. It was a completely different experience than I had anticipated.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
So mile 10 is when I started like, holy crap, this is, I can't three more miles. That's like, that was when it got hard.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Yeah. 30% more. I'm just saying all these things in my head. And I'm like, it was just, it started to get like pretty challenging at that point. And I just started talking to myself and saying all kinds of stuff and having these conversations of like, you can do it. Stop thinking about it. focus on a little girl on the side of the road, focus on the people up there.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
You got a drink coming up and like, you know, I just I was just trying to, like, get myself focused back on where I needed to be. But when I finished, man, I was like, well, no, actually the finish line, I couldn't see where it was, but I could hear it because it kind of like did some turns and it wasn't our normal route.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
and so i was like dude i don't know how much longer i can keep going like i was just like it was really weird i had like i had i was ready to check out as soon as that finish line came up yeah uh but then i yeah finished across the line finish and uh it was it was a relief it was a high wow that's incredible It was good.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
But what I, what I got from that, I realized that we have so much more capacity than we're giving ourselves credit for. Yeah. Like, was it really that hard? No. Like I did it. Right. And I'm not the, I wouldn't say I'm like the mentally, the toughest mentally person I know.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Correct. But dude, when I was on mile nine, I'm pretty sure an 80 year old passed me. And when I was a mile nine,
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
10 this dude that was probably twice as much weight twice as much as me past me i'm like oh dang you know i'll like focus on your race don't focus on them but um do we have so much in us yeah you know we talk about being tired we talk about being frustrated we talk about being angry like i do believe those are all choices those are all like patterns that we've just programmed into ourselves and i think there's so much work again i i think
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I love, I don't know where you got this saying, but you've said this for years. It's not what I'm mentally saying,
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
capable of doing but what i'm physically capable of doing and i say that to myself in the gym all the time yeah when i'm struggling like can i do one more i'm like physically yes mentally i'm deciding right so i do it i do one more yeah and then i do one more after that because it's physically you can do so much more than you think you can right yeah i mean it's it's remarkable that like
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
But let's just talk about the reality. The reality is... people are mentally weak. Oh yeah. Like there's just a lot of weakness bred in our society. And maybe it's because of the luxuries we have, but like, dude, I mean, yeah, there's, there's some, there's some, like we need mental toughness.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I got the text message. Hey, Daryl, we're running. We're running a marathon.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I was always like, I'm always been active, always been skinny, but I wouldn't say I've been like optimal health wise. Right. And I think that's where I'm like, all right, I'm getting older now and I want to be optimal for as long as I can.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Talk about you. Where are you at physically? Like what are some of the challenges you have or what are some of the things you want to change or shift around?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And so what are your, what are your worst foods you eat?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I'll give one credit to you, Chris. You have what? It's type 2? Type 1 diabetes. Type 1 diabetes. I was going to mix it up.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Type 1 diabetes.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
You have type 1 diabetes, and you never bring that up as an issue. But I see you always having your – I had to get you some some sugar this morning because your blood sugar was out of whack. Yeah. How do you how do you deal with that? Because that would be an easy excuse to say, well, I don't operate like everyone else.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
He's right here.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Even like fasting, you can't fast for very long.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Well, it's interesting because you always say like physical first. Um, and I think that's because that's where you've had to be. Right. I don't disagree with it. I think, I think you're correct for, for a lot of people getting your physical health dialed in can impact the rest of your life in a big way.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Yeah, but you're talking about like people are like maybe overweight, but still you can be like skinny or you can, you know what I mean? So I think. But even then. I guess what I would say to that, like contrary or a different perspective would be like, I think if you don't have your values lined up, right?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
It's like you could be the fittest person in the world, but completely unhappy because the actions you take. Right. Right. So it's obviously a balance of all those things. Um, and, and, and I see, I can see it from every different direction.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I always forget. I know I'm going to say the wrong one. And I think that's why I always end up saying the wrong one.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I think too, like when you're having success, when you're trying to have success, when you're doing things, like you got to have more than just like numbers, right? Yeah. It's like, I want to make a million dollars this year. It's like, why? Right. And it's like, how do you make your life fun? How do you make it exciting? How do you make this life like meaningful?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
What's next for me?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Man, so working on, I think there's a lot of stuff that's just coming, that's happening. I think it's just stepping into the businesses that are happening, stepping into the, my kids are getting older. So stepping into like the different activities and stuff going on there.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I think there's kind of two sayings that I always like to live by. And it's one is like, how can it get better than this? Realizing like, dude, life is really good. There's so many blessings there, but it can even get better. Right. And just being excited for like what that could look like.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I think it'll always get better. Like, I do think there is that that you always look back and realize, holy cow, that was way better than I thought it was. Yeah, I think we do that initially because we're not tied in these negative emotions that really don't serve us.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Like I actually give you an example of one of those. So there's this place called Narnia and it's a local place here where it's got all these different waterfalls. And we were there before we had this property. And I remember, it's a saying in our family, our girls always say it.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Whenever we're in like a really cool place or experience or doing something awesome, it's how can it get better than this? Someone will say it. And I remember one of my girls saying it there at the waterfall place. I'm like, dude.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And I remember saying, I was like, how could it get better than this?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And it's things like this, it's places like this where you get to experience something that kind of just takes you somewhere special. And I think that's what this place represents for me. It's like having fun, being in nature. It's a special place.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Yeah. And I remember saying that and then coming here and be like, ah, I remember that time. That's how. And now I'm here. I'm like, how can it get better than this? And I've had experiences with people here and that's how it's gotten better. And so like, I just know like life will continue to unfold as long as I'm excited and expecting things to be even better. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And then the last, the last piece, uh, or saying that I like to live by is just trusting the unknown. And I learned that, uh, through meditation conference, but
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Trust in the unknown. Yeah. And so basically what that looks like is like instead of trying to understand how everything's going to play out, trust that the unknown, what you don't know how it's going to play out, like the future is going to be way better than you could imagine. So instead of trying to imagine the future. Realize it's going to be even better than that.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I'll give you an example because I think this is so important. I remember I remember being in Cabo and I had a phone call with a couple of employees, high level management, and there was some massive tension. And I remember on the before I got on the phone call because I was kind of stressing out about it. I caught myself. I said, you know what? Like, trust in the unknown.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Like, this is just a process that everyone involved has to go through. And at the end of it, everyone will end up in a situation way better than we currently are. And so I just walked in with that attitude. And I was like, good. There was nothing that could shake me in that conversation. No matter how mad or whatever. But I was in an emotional state where I could handle anything.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Even like, uh, even like my wife, right? Like I always want my relationship to improve and get better. And you know, one thing about relationships are two people are involved and they're always changing. And so like the relationship has to change. Right. And as we get older, it's like we want our relationship to be even better and better.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And sometimes there's struggles and sometimes it gets really, really good. And so we're always trying to, like, level up. But even with that, it's like I just trust like it's going to be awesome. And so I walk into my relationship knowing that I'm going to experience even better days in our relationship. And I just know it's going to come at some point. I don't put a timeline on it.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I don't put expectation of how it's going to look. I just walk in knowing it's going to continue to get better.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I love the story. In second grade, I was always going out to this group of eight of us. And I remember going out there and I was like, why are we coming out of the classroom? I didn't get it. Like, oh, you guys don't know how to read. So we're teaching how to read. And that stuck with me. And I remember graduating college, still in my mind thinking, I don't know how to read.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
It's like, think of the person who already received the $10 million, whatever, right? Now take him and put him in that situation. How would he respond? I think that's the best way to look at it, right? Yeah. I look at it like in relationships, like my wife thinks I'm the coolest person in the world. 10 out of 10, everything's like perfect. How do I respond to her, right?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And then if I always treat her like that, that's how she shows up. Yeah. And so I think it's important that that we we show up like we want the opportunities or the people to show up.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
And I can remember after graduating from college, Chris was like, hey, dude, let's read this book. OK, cool. What is it? It was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And I remember thinking, man, I don't read very well. So I'm going to try to read this book, finish it before Chris can. Remember that? So I read this book and I got done with it. I'm like, dude, I love that. That was so cool.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
So then it was like, let's read another book. And we kept reading books. And then all of a sudden it got into just.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
Yeah, I honestly don't think I really understood. I didn't understand entrepreneurship. I didn't understand a lot of things, but I was super ambitious. And I felt like when I started reading books, it was elevating me to think differently than I had ever thought before. I had been taught just work really, really hard and just work hard. Just work hard. Don't read. Don't read. It wasn't don't read.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
It was just work hard. And there wasn't really this idea to be creative, I guess.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I think too, the whole concept of like having a coach or paying someone or going to a seminar that seems so, um, uncomfortable. Like, why would I pay all this money? You know, yet I would go to school and pay 1500 bucks in books that I never read. Right. Isn't that funny?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
I mean, even if you talk to an average person who doesn't read any of those books, if they never read those books and you talk about self-development, it's kind of like a woo-woo thing. Right. It's like, oh, yes, help yourself. It's just a weird mentality. Yeah, self-help. But yet it's powerful. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
anyone who's helped himself, if you help yourself, if you figure out how to help yourself, like you'll, you know, it's funny that they even called self-help because it's not right.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
So, so Chris, who is one of your, like, who's, who's one of your top mentors?
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
it was cool to see i thought like the the respect of those around him for todd were was immense and the way he treated everybody like he treated everyone like you were the only person he was talking to like he's i even had him uh one time i was talking with him it was just me and my daughter and just he like gave us his full attention he had someone come to him he told him to hold on and just like finish talking to us and
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
It was one of like the first times I did just me, him and my daughter. And it was just like the amount of respect he gives people. That's why he gets so much respect back.
Next Level Pros
#134: Hawaii House from “The Bachelorette” Filled with 9 Figure Companies
yeah how about how about uh how about you one one person i love is uh is jeff scholes and chris you know him but he was a guy that i i was like so when i left when i left home for college my dad he was like told me something he's like i want you to leave and you're not welcome to come back like to live back home or you come visit but just like can't come back home to live
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And what makes a great thumbnail? I've been trying to study this and I suck at it.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I've learned a lot from you over the years, just externally, internally, seeing you speak from stage. In fact, there's a lot of things I'd love to dive in. Those are little Myronisms that I've used over the years that I've implemented into what I do. So dude, what's getting you fired up right now?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Now, the other question I would ask, so speaking with Andy Elliott, you know Andy very well. I don't know him very well, but I met him. Yeah, yeah. So we spent a day together and we were going through YouTube. Speaking with him, he tries to target his titles towards like more keyword driven. Yeah, that's a strategy. That is definitely a strategy. That's not your strategy.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Nobody creates them for me. And you give them the direction on what the thumbnail should look like? Or you approve it? I approve it. I approve it.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Maybe we'll split test those. So. And do you find that things like the framework, like seven, like seven ways?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. It gives you reason to hang on.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yep. Okay? People want to comment before they even watch it.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
What is he talking about?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. And then I assume, so those things gets people to click. Right. But now you've got to keep them engaged. But now you've got to keep them engaged. And so what's your rule of thumb there?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So here's my question, because I don't know this. When I'm on YouTube, the first couple of videos that are there, they will auto play. Is that considered a click? No, that's not considered a click. So it's when you actually click on it and the volume starts playing. That's correct.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Boom. Love it. So obviously you've talked or discussed about this a lot of times. How often are you scripting out that first 30 seconds?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So, you know, I'm pretty good at the top of what I call my dome ski, the same as you. Now, I do plan it.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So do you bullet point it like in your phone? Yes, and I might even write it out, but I'm not going to read it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it, got it. Okay, so we're similar that way. And so I think where I've screwed up is I haven't done proper planning and I've just kind of gone in and tried- Off the cuff, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Right.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
That's how you plan a video.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Right, right, right. I love it. So are you doing most of your videos now live?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I have a really good... a really good accountant that loves to take advantage of all tax code. Yeah, 100%.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So if I'm getting started, because I would say our YouTube channel is still getting started. Like we're, we're, we suck. I built a, I built a channel to like 4,000 subs. And I was like, I felt like we had the wrong followers. And so then we just relaunched under like a different branding or whatnot. We're very low.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So would you recommend doing the live approach or would you recommend just good high quality content and then go live?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I'm interested to see if you actually agree with this. So I'm the same way. Way better in front of a live audience, in front of a live person, right? Sure. If you record an actual sale that's happening versus a sales training, way better. Way better. Way better. So one of my core beliefs behind that is because our spirits communicate different.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And so when I communicate with another spirit, I'm going to communicate more purely and from God. Would you agree with that? I think so.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's amazing. So are you charging them to be there?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So what are some things that you're doing right now? So real estate is the main focus with that?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So you're just allowing people to come in off the streets?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, yeah. Hey, that's good. The people who do, do. The people who don't, don't. What is the most controversial content out there that has created that divide?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Right, so you get that. I would imagine, just because I've done coaching over the years and whatnot, and like one-on-one coaching is difficult, right? I mean, it requires a lot of energy.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Exactly. So with that, I'm imagining you keep it to a very small amount. We only allow five people in our million dollar a year program.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I don't need your time.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Who's your ideal client in that higher level type stuff?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
It doesn't matter.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Right. Because like you're, you're disconnected. You're sitting face to face, you know, diving.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I love it. I love it. I love it. So, you know, you talk, obviously you're very passionate about what you're building and everything else, but also very passionate about your time and where you're spending it. So outside of teaching on YouTube and having all these coaching clients and whatnot, what does it look like from a time allocation standpoint to golf family?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
What are you getting fired up outside of business for?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
What is your favorite like new hobby or activity that you've picked up in the last 12 to 24 months? Because obviously you've done a lot of these things for a long time. A long time.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I just have new levels of intensity for old hobbies. I love it. Yeah. I love that. So you know what you love. And I do that. And you do more of that.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
What about, you know, because we're both kind of in the same boat where we don't have to work, right? Like we have opportunities around us and we want to be very intentional with who we spend it with, what we're doing. We're doing with that time. Those type of things. Like where are you finding the most joy in travel?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Is there specific places that you love?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yes.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, I still have not gone to Israel. And I keep... But right now, obviously, it's a little more difficult.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
opportunity especially in america but man the money that you give to the government when you don't know the game is insane especially with like i mean everything that's coming out right now with doge and oh 100 oh my gosh like all this usa id you see i mean it's going to fund the craziest crap in the world 100 you know nothing very little of it
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And yeah, it's amazing. Speaking of Hawaii, you need to come to my place in Hawaii. Have you seen my place in Hawaii? No, I didn't even know you had a place in Hawaii. Oh, it is the most. Which island? The big island. The big island. Okay. It is the most, maybe the most remarkable spot in the world. Really? So King Kamehameha, the King of Hawaii, he had his residence where my home sits. Wow.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And two and a half acres backed up against state-owned land that will never be developed. Wow. I have a 25-foot waterfall, giant waterfall in the back. Wow. And it's like one of the most spiritual, just like... Refreshing. Dude, I'll have to show it to you after the pod.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, it's interesting. I've been to most of the other islands, and the Big Island's my favorite. It's so unique. It's so unique. It has 12 of the 14 climates in the world.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
How crazy is that? You can literally drive 20 minutes and look like you're in a completely different part of the world. Wow. And yeah, it's, it's, it's got such, it's a cool, it's a cool thing, but I'll show it to you afterwards. But man, so you're building, you're building these communities. Well, so first of all, thank you for dropping the knowledge about YouTube.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I think, I think that's highly valuable to anybody watching this. What was it? So that the lady that approached you that grew to 650,000, like, Was it those principles? Oh, I'm sure or what was what was the big difference?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
The study of transvestite mice in Brazil. Right.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So you've had a long career. You've done really cool things. What's the end goal? Do you see yourself doing this until the day you die? Oh, 100%. I love it. So what does that look like?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Well, it's the biggest lie. It is. Retirement is the biggest lie that was ever sold to society, right? It's insane. I attempted it at age 39, right? Six weeks. Frankly, like the most depressed I've ever been in my life. Yeah, because you're a creator. Yeah, I'm a creator. And I'm a firm believer that the great creator created his children to create stuff.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And that is what brings true joy, true happiness, true, you know, leveling. And so, you know, I appreciate what you shared, like, I'm going to do this forever, but not to the same intensity. So it's just being very intentional.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Anyway. Hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now, let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, I'm the same way with a little bit more intensity in the evening, hence why my voice is the way it is. Right, right.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
uh but uh yeah it's uh it's it's interesting because i think as as you said like most people they're living for this retirement they're for the weekend would you call it anesthetized they anesthetize they they use distraction as an anesthetic right they use football basketball they want to watch somebody else live because of the pain of the fact that the fact
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Meanwhile, dreaming of the day to be retired. Right. And I think when people just finally come to the realization that there is no finish line. There is no finish line.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And there's really no fulfillment in arriving. Right. There isn't. The journey is the destination. Right. Like the day that I had... Many, many, many millions of dollars wired into my bank account from a private equity firm. For your business. For my business. My life didn't change.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
It is wild. So yes, every dollar cut to the government, you're just pissed about. Yeah. So, yeah, man, sticks, sticks and bricks, real estate. I've been I've been doing real estate for 15 years for that exact purpose. Like, you know, it's it's one of the very few ways that you can make money in five different ways. Right. Appreciation, depreciation, interest. You got principal buy down.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
But so many people fantasize about these days thinking that the heavens will open, angels will come down, knight you, and say you are now king. As soon as you can figure that out, you start falling in love with your life.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Amen. Myron, I appreciate so much having you on the show. My pleasure, bro. Dude, this is good to see you. This has been fun to, you know, I don't even care about the content. Just being able to hang with you for, you know, 45 minutes to an hour is absolutely incredible. We live on perfection. complete opposite ends of the world. Yeah. Like literally catacornered United States. Yeah.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Wanting to get you in that Harvard program.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. Just from, yeah, just an experience. Yeah, looking forward to it. Appreciate having you. Until next time.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And man, it's like one of the most incredible.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
It just makes sense. Love it. I love it. Love it. Love it. So you're excited about that. One other thing I wanted to share with the group is like one thing I respect so much about you, Myron, is just how you are such a man of God. Right. Like that. That appeals to me probably more than all the other successes that you have. You know, the focus on the family, focus on God.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
You know, me as a father of five and, you know, raising that family and holding them close to Christ and everything like that. And so I've always really appreciated when we come to events like this and you hold Bible studies and that type of thing. I'll be speaking at a church tonight. Dude, that gets me fired up. Me too. That gets me fired up.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
So looking back at some of my notes, some of the Myronisms, I think about like one thing that you shared from stage one time was the value of money over time. You mean time over money? What's that? The value of time over money. But the question was asked, how many guys would love to make a million bucks? You know the pitch. I do.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And then it's like, well, if you did that over 20 years, and then how many would love a million over a year or a day, whatever. And just obviously the thing that changes is the time. And that alone has changed my perspectives.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
I'm pretty sure this came from you. When you think about big goals or things that you need to accomplish...
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
bigger the goal that you change the tools that you have to focus on right yes like like better leverage yeah if if i said hey you got to be in new york tomorrow you're not thinking about walking you're not thinking about driving no you're not thinking about riding a bike i'm taking a jet i'm not even taking a prop plane right like a cessna from here would you have to fill it up like five times from here to there right
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Super excited to have Myron Golden on the pod today. Myron is a longtime friend. In fact, I was looking through my notes yesterday or the day before, and I was searching Myron Golden. I had a note from 2019, so six years ago. Wow. I think that was fairly early in your program.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. And like too many people, instead of aiming for New York, they're aiming for the next door neighbor's house. Right. And the only tool they think about is walking.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. And, uh, those are things that, that I've learned from you over, over the years that, uh, that have drastically just changed the way I teach, the way I close, the way I do different things. So yeah, it's pretty, pretty amazing. What, uh, Right now you have different programs. And tell us more about like your community and the value that you're providing.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
They're separate.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
No way. Wow.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Wow. Okay. Doubled just off one.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Wow.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Dude, for whatever reason, that guy draws a crowd. He does. He interviews a lot of really interesting people and he's a great interviewer. He's a great interviewer. I was on his podcast and like my followers and everything just shot through. Everything shot through. Yeah. Yeah. Completely different crowd. He's got, yeah, it's pretty awesome.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 374-7554. That's 374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show baby.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Right, right. I know you've completely changed things. So guys, if you don't know who Myron is, this guy is the champion of sales, master closer, especially from stage.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Wow. And growth. Yeah, and growth. So what do you average over a 28-day period?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
And about 30,000 subscribers.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. It's always impressive when somebody that is a business-focused channel has that many subscribers. It's easy to get it in the entertainment. Entertainment or education.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah. You don't see it. You don't see it very often. Right, right, right. So, yeah, it's awesome. So what would you say? We've been sucking with YouTube. Fantastic on Spotify, Apple, crushing, right? Like consistently top 15 on Apple. Sure. And getting all the downloads and everything like that. But YouTube, we suck. Okay. Okay. So a couple of questions I have for you. Okay.
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you would name the channel Chris Lee, not Next Level Pros?
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
you've probably seen him speaking at different events or whatnot uh author of how many books now five five different books has an incredible youtube channel right around a million subs now right just under a million that's we'll break a million this month we're chasing that goal let's go bro let's go and so it's just been awesome to really have a good relationship over the last six or seven years and see you grow and develop and everything else and
Next Level Pros
#141: Myron Golden's Cheat Code to YouTube Sucess // Myron's Steps to Creating Successfull Content // Next Level Pros Podcast
What are some of those key metrics?
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
I was down in Portland a couple weeks ago talking to my brother-in-law. He works for Google, and he's worked a lot with Disney and their relationship. And right now what they do, because ESPN is they do, so they're actually doing this with figureheads. And so they'll be able to use their face and image, and then they're creating all this content without them being a part of it. Right.
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
Okay. We're talking theoretical future here? Let's talk it. Sure. So a sporting event. You could watch sporting events. like what's interesting is when you, when you go in person, it's a very different experience, right? Sure. So it'd be interesting, interesting to see what, what comes of like TV and what we start to watch competitively.
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
Cause think about how many games you watch that are just boring by halftime. Imagine if there's like some type of league that has like AI that just the whole game is AI and you're like rooting for players and whatever. It's just interesting that like, can I, can I just black hat that for a second?
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
It's similar to a movie, right? A movie is a storyline. And so it's the storyline that you're following.
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
You do in the movies.
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
But what's interesting, like last night we watched a movie and it was about a real person. And it definitely gives you a different emotional connection.
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
Well, I think if you look at, like, let me ask you, Chris, how big of a business could you scale by just word of mouth?
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
So I think what we're going to see here is that's going to be the same thing with business is like when you inject AI in your business, it's going to be like scaling word of mouth versus marketing.
Next Level Pros
#150: How VEO 3 can save your business $1M a year // Next Level Pros Podcast
does ai just start changing the way you view the world i think what's interesting is this is also going to impact marketing right because if if you can on the fly or with a matter of seconds make a video that's dynamic and personal then all of a sudden every video you see like we will never see the same thing
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
I think we, yeah, it's like 120 or something.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So she wanted to protect you. Like, don't make it work.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So I want to I want to point out, like, just the progression of that, like initially was like, go work, bust your butt. Doesn't matter if it's smart work. It's just hard work, right? Those first three years. Then he said, OK, let's go marketing, figure out how to get people's attention. Then next, figure out how to close people. And then last, figure out how to govern and manage people.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
China literally blows my mind. So I've been there a couple times. And one night, we were having dinner. And the guy that we were with, our translator, he was like, do you guys want furs? And I'm like, furs? Why would I want furs? He's like... There's a city close to this first. Literally, we went, same thing, same type of city, just fur.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Which brings up another question. Growing up in a very successful home, did you yearn to have your own validation?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Yep. So I just want to point out what you did there. So you defined very clear expectations. Like, hey, look, this is where we're at. This is where we need to be. this is like, and you put everybody, you were very transparent of like, don't do this. Let's create common goals.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And I think most business owners get this wrong, right? Like they just like let it be and kind of just come in. But the fact that you were very clear, communicated really well.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So what happened to revenue those first couple of years?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So when you got rid of 50% of your locations, how many locations did you go from?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
I mean, there was no like stamped formula.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So you said he came from the slums of India, like that's hard to get out of. How did that end up transitioning?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And before that, your largest store was 20,000 square feet? The largest, but the average store was about 8,000. Wow. So significantly different.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And during this time, Dubai is cruising, right? Like, I mean, the Burj Khalifa had just been finished or was this when you kind of had a little bit of a downturn?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So did that piss you off or motivate you?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And now suddenly, in five years, they want to... Well, I mean, at 24%, that means you would double every three years, which would only get you to, you know, 250, 300 million. And you're like, let's go to a billion.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Which I think is so important. We actually talk about this a lot with our five-year plan. You can't just have this big, crazy, hairy, audacious goal, right? You have to have a way to justify and back into it. Because that's what people, and that's exactly what you did, which gets people behind and motivated.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
But a similar concept from a standpoint, standalone, near something big.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So yeah, fast forward to 2024. you guys started your real estate development business in 2014? Correct. So you got 10 years, you guys have branded pretty much everything Danube, right? Yeah. I mean, so just, I mean, once again, if you guys ever go to Dubai, you're going to go and you're going to see billboards for Danube, Danube Home, Danube Real Estate Development.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
I mean, it's in the airports, it's everywhere. And so you guys are really just really parlayed off of this same brand.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And... What industry was your uncle in?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Which for the Americans in the room, 1% of the total value of the thing, right? Americans automatically think financing.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And I think another key just marketing aspect for what you guys did there is the base religion over there is Muslim, right? And most of them believe in not paying interest. And so this also appeals to them from a standpoint of I can own a home that isn't financed. I'm just paying 1% a month without paying interest.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So it kind of hit both aspects, made it affordable, made it alignment with the base religion, which was pretty awesome.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Yeah. Which I think brings up another just great point. Like in business, when you are really successful in one vertical, make sure the next vertical can parlay and be used at the next. Because each of these businesses allowed for the next one to be even better, right? So like...
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
and so where a lot of entrepreneurs they get so distracted they see this opportunity this shiny object something that they don't know don't understand doesn't take care of any like you know synergies and just I mean what you guys have done is just like a master plan of building uberly successful generational wealth yeah I mean to each his own but for us having this synergy really helped all our businesses in a big way and so that was the second thing we did
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So this suite that we're sitting in is bigger than probably what your dad lived in.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So Adil, you've experienced all the success. Your dad's experienced tremendous success. You've gone and forged your own path. You have no need or want for money at this point. What pushes and motivates you today?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Which, by the way, so I was looking at his social media yesterday. It was so cute. They were watching you walk across the stage at Harvard from his office. Everybody was in there. They were cheering. Someone was like, hip, hip, parade. It was cool, man. I thought, man, how cool of an example this is of he's still out there working, hustling, celebrating his son. So cool.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
No, that's so cool. I think a lot of people have gotten away from that, right? Like we have several friends that live in Dubai that are from like your similar heritage or whatnot, where traditionally families live together where they're not doing it as much. And so like the fact that you still value family.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Which obviously you live what you preach. I mean, the reason why we know each other is because we're both furthering our education at Harvard Business School and being a part of the OPM program. And so like, You know, anybody in that program, I respect just for that aspect. But even more, I respect that.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
One thing I recognized immediately from you was like, this is not a guy that's just checking a box for his family, right? Like we're there's a handful of those type of people in our in our program. They're just like, Hey, Dad wants me here. Mom wants me here, whatever. this is the only way I can take over the business where you had already forged your own path.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And so like what you're saying, I believe is true. Like you are truly a man that values it all and wants it all, which I appreciate that about you. Yeah. So dude, I appreciate the time that we've been able to spend, not only on the podcast, but just over the last couple of years with Harvard. You know, the interesting thing is like, The world is small. There's lots of opportunity to get out there.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
But for those that haven't gone to Dubai, sell us on Dubai real quick.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
You know, Dubai is the one place on earth that makes me think maybe a monarchy can work.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
It's one of the most amazing places in the world. In fact, I went and celebrated my 40th birthday with Otto and his family.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Yeah, it was a fantastic time. Instantly, one of my favorite, if not my most favorite cities in the world. And so the fact that you guys have been behind the construction and development of it is just like speak so much to you guys. So Otto, thank you so much for being on the show. Until next time.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
I mean, that was top. So top 1% in America in 1991 was 100,000.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Yeah, it would be the equivalent of like a sales guy making $5 million a year here or something.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
This was headed up by Saddam Hussein? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, it's crazy how little educated we are in the Western world. Like I knew something about Kuwait and I knew something about Saddam Hussein, but I don't know the details.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Me, Adil Sazan. You're not going to want to miss this episode where his father came from the slums of India to ultimately becoming one of the top three developers in Dubai, where Adil went and forged his own path. This guy, family man, entrepreneur, hustler, shark on Shark Tank. This is going to be one that you want to tune in for. Welcome to another episode of Next Level Pros.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So yeah, give me details, like how did you escape?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
I mean, if they're surrounding this place with tanks, like how do you... No, but the Iraqis did not attack.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So they were fine with you guys leaving?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
92. Dubai is basically nothing. It's a desert. In 1992. So like, what was this guy, or why would your dad even consider Dubai a place?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
I mean, think about Dubai. Did anyone even know Dubai existed?
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Today we have Mr. Adil Sajjan, which is one of my best friends in the world. Adil comes from Dubai, what I always refer to as the King of Dubai. He is one of the top three developers in real estate. They have skyscrapers. Literally, when you go into the beautiful city of Dubai, you're gonna see these guys everywhere. And they just have such an incredible presence, not only in real estate,
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
So this reminds me, so we- So luck, I would say luck plays- We got this equation, right, from Das, where it was like hard work, all these different things, and then the last one was luck.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Which is interesting. I don't necessarily believe in luck. I actually believe it's like, it's like hope and manifestation that comes in the form of luck.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
And so your dad decided to go and do it on his own, which had this guy accepted the offer, it would have been a completely different outcome.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
You know, I think one of the greatest principles of successful people is that they are really good at fighting off their back. Correct. And your dad sounds like he was put on his back several times.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
Which also is like a key principle to success is having somebody that will support you.
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
obviously life's been different for you yeah right like you didn't grow up in slums you had a lot of incredible opportunity your dad set you up in a lot of ways but i think one of the things that i respect and love most about you is that you found your own path yeah along that so can you dive a little bit like into that like what it is like growing up in a successful home and finding your own path
Next Level Pros
#132: Building Dubai Since 1991 - Adel Sajan
but also in retail and supply, everything else, which is super cool. But obviously the glitz and glamour is cool. Let's talk about a little bit of the story. Your dad came from very humble beginnings. Can you jump into that a little bit?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Grant Cardone, Gary Brekka fighting like a couple school girls that didn't get their date to the prom. If you haven't been paying attention lately, these guys have been airing all their dirty laundry on social media of how terrible their partnership has ended. We're talking lawsuits and all kinds of craziness.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Absolutely, absolutely. Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey, a lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
So we're talking about two guys that were in the spotlight of the media, right? 10X Health. In fact, I remember when it first came out, I was like, wait, Grant Cardone is getting into health?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Yeah, so when we launched Solgen, we actually came up with this method. It was based off of just like failed partnerships in the past, right? So I had had some terrible failed partnerships. Luckily, you hadn't had nearly as bad as mine, right? Like one of my previous partners like ended up running a Ponzi scheme and going to prison. Like what the freak? Like that's, that's crazy. I saw that.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And I also saw some, uh, partnership that was going on with my brother and like, just like with other people. I'm like, dude, I want to avoid that. So we came up with this methodology, which we call the six, 18, three year method. And we applied it when we first started our business. And so it was me and you, and there was a couple other guys that were, that were going to be involved in it.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And what we decide is like, look, we have a hundred percent of the pie. I don't want to just go 25, 25, 25, 25. Right. Um, because, um, we really need to make sure that we're even gonna do, we're gonna fit well together in this relationship. So what we decided was that we were gonna start running this method and then we were gonna do the six-month honeymoon period.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And at the end of six months, we would decide where the additional equity was gonna lie. And so initially, we broke up and we said, hey, each of us are gonna get 10% and then there's gonna be a 60% pool that we're going to be able to allocate. And look, and after six months, you've earned your 10%. And then at that point, we'll decide like how the rest of this is going to be earned out.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Yeah. So Gary Brekka, obviously well-known. He's been on podcasts, kind of like the guy when it comes to ice baths and all these different things. had partnered up with Gary or with Grant to form, to really leverage the 10X brand and be able to go and take this thing. Now, I think there's like a few lessons to be learned here about partnerships.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And so typically, so now we've gone and we've used this with other partnerships, other people that we brought in their business. We teach this from stage. We teach it in the next level community. And is anytime you bring somebody into a partner, make sure that you're not giving anything away in those first six months. Okay. Like that, that is your first step.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
period in which that person can earn or have their equity vest. So that first six months, we call it the honeymoon period. And then typically the way we structure it, we go 50% at six months, 50% at 18 months. And then if they back out or leave the partnership in the first three years, There is an actual full clawback of all equity.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And so essentially what that does is it binds people that are in the partnership for three years to participate, to be able to fully earn their equity. Now they can participate in distributions and everything else as those periods vest, but If they were to leave at any time, they are surrendering their equity. And so what that does is like you're building a strong foundation for those three years.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And then if at that point they decide to leave, you've probably gotten as much as you need from that at least. But most people are going to be hooked in because they built something for three years. They want to continue to participate in that distribution. And so the way we saw this play out, which was really unique. So we had these four guys. There are four of us.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
and within uh you know we said six months of the honeymoon period within three months we saw a guy that literally just stopped showing up yeah right he wasn't traveling he wasn't committed he wasn't willing to relocate to washington state and so within the first six months we negotiated a way for him to completely give up his initial 10 percent and
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Even though we legally didn't have to because of our agreement, we still made a trade that made it fair. But he walked away from equity in the business at that point. Then after six months, we decided, okay, this is what it's going to look like long term. Me and you took the majority of the equity. Our third partner took a little bit less than what we had. And then we went and we scaled.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And then we went and applied this six, 18, three-year method to nine other people, 10 other people that were involved in the program. And the cool thing is, is like all those people, they were hooked in the same exact way. And one of those guys, one of the... Actually, there was 11 of them. One of the 11 is... It ended up not working out. We were able to exercise the clawback period.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
We still gave him some money, even though we didn't owe him any money for that clawback and took care of him in that way. But the other 10 people, they earned their way. They worked the three years. They participated in the exit. And that, for me, has just been one of the most powerful tools in building partnerships and just learning how to work with other people.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And everybody knows exactly what you're talking about. You've been a part of some company and it's like, oh, there's going to be stock options or whatever. And then just like nothing.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And so like for us, it was super important to make sure that we delivered on that, especially with our key players that exist with us from the beginning. But yeah, man, like when you're talking about partnerships, there's just such a yin and yang approach, right? Like you've got to be able to bring the positive energy when the other person's being negative and vice versa.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
But there is so much power in getting there. And I promise you, you won't have to end up like Gary Brekka and Grant Cardone airing your dirty laundry if one, You have proper expectations up front. Two, have an exit strategy that makes sense regardless of the situation.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
You're not going to be out and freaking hitting each other with $100 million lawsuits based off of a picture with Diddy Combs, right? And then three, have the hard conversations as they arise. If you can dial in those three things, it's going to make for an incredible partnership that just will ultimately make sense and make it happen.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
One is proper expectation management up front, right? Like, I mean, I think, you know, everybody that's watching the podcast right now, I want you to do a thing. This is a principle that we teach. We call it the second principle of leadership. And what I want you to do is I want to take a finger above your head and I want you to go in clockwise. Do it with me, Daryl. Come on.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And I think along those same lines, because you're an owner doesn't guarantee you the top position in the company. You can have somebody that doesn't have equity that you actually answer to in a proper execution chart because they are better at their job. An owner is somebody that distributes the stock.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
The same way that if you own stock in Apple or stock in Google, you need to treat your equity in your business. Your main desire and job as an equity holder is to get the profits.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
everything else being an operator in the business isn't necessarily your right your responsibility this is something that we actually call god mode right like god mode is the way that you need to be functioning as an owner designing from the top the actual execution player one npc that are going out and doing it like yeah you might have a role in the the uh the business but ultimately you want to be over here playing in the sandbox participating in the distributions
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
giving a little bit of input or whatnot.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Appreciate you guys jumping on. If you haven't taken a look at the Next Level community, go ahead and give us a text. I think we have the phone number down in the notes. Until next time.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
In this episode, we're going to dive deep into how you make a partnership work so you don't end up like these two crazy cats. Oh, I didn't know this shiz. So, dude, check this out. A $100 million defamation lawsuit was filed by Brecca and his wife, Sage, against Grant Cardone. I guess... Dude, this is crazy.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
We're going to be clockwise above your head. And then what you're going to do is slowly bring it down below. Don't change the direction. Now which direction is going?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Counterclockwise. Do it again. Clockwise. Counterclockwise. So what changed, Daryl? Perspective. So it's interesting in a situation like this, right, is that...
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
a lot of people are like trying to team up like who's right who's wrong yes right like was gary right was grant right frankly there's a good chance they're both right they're both looking at the same exact situation saying no it's clockwise no it's counterclockwise and so it's really hard to not make a quick judgment of like who's the honest one right like
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
A hundred percent. And so I only bring up like the respect different perspective thing was like, when you look at a story like this, it's really quick to like make judgments, like someone's bad, someone's good. But I think the most important thing that we can take from this is like, how do we avoid partnerships that ever get to this point, right?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And actually, you know, me and you have been able to work on and off for the last almost 20 years, right? Like we're now going on to our 20th year of being in business together or on and off. And we've had a couple divorces.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And so I go back to the tough times that we've had that we've been able to make it through. And let me just say, having a partner's hard. There's nothing easy about it. But at the same time, there's nothing more rewarding than an incredible partnership.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
In fact, I think a fantastic partnership, a yin and yang, kind of like me and you, right, can accomplish way more together than we ever would individually as a sum of parts. And so, hey guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
You know, like going through there, I'd love to just talk about like what has made our partnership work and how we've been able to avoid situations like a Gary Brekka and a Grant Cardone where it's just this public blow up. Yeah. And we're just suing the crap out of each other for a hundred million bucks.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Yep. You know, the thing like any partnership, any relationship, whether it's your spouse or whatnot, it's like clear lines of communication, clear expectations, and understand how you're going to navigate through disagreements, right? Because, you know, it's hard. Like, there's no such thing in business as like a fair relationship, right? Like, You're never going to be equal.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
So, his wife, Elena, she shared on to her 688,000 Instagram followers a video of Brecca with Sean Diddy Combs. Ooh.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
You can do everything possible to balance the scale, especially in a two-person relationship. But one thing I learned a long time ago about a relationship with my spouse is I can never try to win the 50-50 battle, right? Equal 100. I give 50. You give 50. I'm 51. You're 49. I can't make that. It's like you've got to be balanced.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
committed to bring in 100% of the way and be okay with whatever else the partner brings to the table?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And I think just any good partnership has one, clear expectations. Two, the ability to exit. Because you're talking about the ability to walk away. A lot of times we entangle ourselves in these relationships that are impossible to exit. And so some of the best advice that we've ever been given in partnerships is have a clear exit plan day one. That doesn't mean...
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
that you're necessarily signing a prenup or, you know, looking for plan B, but it's clear understanding upfront. Like if there comes a time that I want to walk away, you want to walk away, how do we value the business and our assets to be able to do it accordingly?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
So with Diddy, I guess he was a prior 10X health client. But this is crazy. And then in response, Grant filed over a $100 million claim. And so now they're like in mediation. This is crazy. So Grant on March 18th said, Gary Brecka exposed. This was on his Twitter account or his ex account. I was hoping to keep this private, but Gary Brecka has gone from podcast to podcast, crying victim.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And it's important that you have these conversations up front before you enter into an engagement because up front... You're going through this honeymoon stage, right? Like when we started out in business together or we've done different things with other people, initially everybody has good intentions.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Everybody wants the same goals, is motivated, excited to move forward, and what I call the honeymoon stage. And the honeymoon stage is always going to last up to six months whenever you engage in a new relationship. And when I say up to, like it literally could last two days, three days, three months, six months, rarely does it last longer than six months, right?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
But at the end of six months, you're typically gonna know exactly how that person is, their MO, their modus operatus or whatever it is called, and the way that they're gonna act. And so having the hard conversations before you make it through the honeymoon stage,
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
is so, so important because if you don't, it becomes increasingly difficult the first time that you encounter that difficult conversation. And so there's a few things that I would recommend to any partnership when you're going in. One, have an exit strategy. Clearly define how you're going to address the dissolution of assets. Don't just say, hey, we're going to split it 50-50.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
No, hey, how are you going to value it? Are you going to put a 3x multiple times your profitability? Are you going to add in all hard assets on top of that? Are you going to bring in a third party that's going to come in and do a valuation on the assets? And how are you going to split that? Are you going to have a first right to be able to buy the other person out? Can they sell it to just anybody?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Do you have to sign off if they sell it to somebody else? Or is there potentially a buyout clause where if they exercise that 3X, that has to be paid at a, you know, half an X up front and the other five half of X is paid over the next five years or whatnot. And so like... Just detailing that alone will save so many partnerships so that you can have those hard conversations.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
When you get into it, it's like, okay, look, hey, we can go our separate ways. This is how we go our separate ways. But on top of that would be a few other things like bylaws of the business. I think a lot of partnerships fall apart when people don't understand what are the things you can and can't do inside of a business.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Me and you, we operate completely different than most business partners do now because we've just been together for so long. But when starting out... Having things put in place like, hey, anytime there's over $1,000 purchase, we need to both sign off on it, right? And what do you do in the event that somebody does spend $1,000 without the other person?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And just, again, detailing out those really hard conversations. The cool thing is, right now, when me and you started out, we didn't have chat GBT.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Like now you can go to Chad GBT and be like, yo, I'm entering this new partnership. Like what are some things that I should think about that I should put into my partnership agreement? What bylaws should we consider? What are some negative pitfalls of a relationship? What are some hard conversations or or things that we should agree upon before we enter this relationship? You know, stuff like that.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
The public will discover fraud, deceit, misappropriation of company resources, manipulation of family members, psychopathic behavior, and tens of millions in hard money loans to fund an excessive lifestyle of cars, plane travel, and houses. A story of a guy who went from foreclosures and bankruptcies to having too much too fast. Ouch. So this is pretty nasty. Yeah, it is. Pretty nasty.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And, and I think the, a healthy relationship, a healthy team atmosphere, a healthy, any type of group that functions well together. One, you have to have trust. And then two, you got to be able to conflict, right? Like to be able to take opposing sides. I think most people never get there because they don't establish that good relationship of trust.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Um, but like having the hard conversations, like dude, me and you over the years have had like so many times where it's like, we have to sit down and like call each other on our crap. Right. Like, and like, dude, this isn't working. And, but then we establish, I think like our common language is like, Hey, look, we're established. We both want the same thing, right?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Like we were both trying to achieve this goal, this mission, this vision of, of this business. And that's what we want. And we both trust that we both want this. Yes. Okay. I'm going to share with you. I'm going to conflict with you a little bit that some things I, we need to twist in the dials a little bit. to like get on the same page.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And then we share whatever feedback or things that need to be said to be able to reestablish alignment and creativity.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And, you know, this is one of our leadership pillars because, you know, in the Next Level community, we teach the eight pillars for growth. The leadership pillar is having those hard conversations. This goes for partners, goes for teams, goes for leadership management and whatnot. But, like...
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
The faster you can address these hard things, the better because so often we'll create, especially in partnerships, we'll create this monster. Like freaking Daryl, he just is like not wanting to pull his weight or he's just like he doesn't even want what's best for me or the company, whatever, right?
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Like there's stories that we imagine and so, and the further we put that out, the more it festers and the more we look for confirmation bias, right? Right. Like that's one of the worst things that will kill any partnership or any relationship is confirmation bias. Right. Like I think something about you. Like, for example, I'm just going to use like just a random one, like Daryl's lazy. Right.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
And so then I'm looking for anything that confirms my bias.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Man, I showed up at eight fifty six and he showed up at nine oh five. I knew he was lazy. Right. When the reality is that's not the case. Confirmation bias will kill a relationship faster than anything. The second that you see something festering, that you're starting to build confirmation bias around, that is the time that you've got to address it.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
I think we've just done a fantastic job over the years of being able to do that.
Next Level Pros
#144: Grant Cardone & Gary Brecka Fallout // How to Build Better Business Partnerships // Next Level Pros
Which is the power of conflicting, right? You've got to conflict. You've got to have your voices heard. But then whoever has the higher decision-making in that particular subject matter, you've got to back them, to your point.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's awesome.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh, gosh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh gosh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yes. Ley lines!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Hurry, Andrew, hurry.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh, gosh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
144 - The Hollow Earth Cult Nobody’s Talking About (Until Now)
Yeah, that would be insane.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
144 - The Hollow Earth Cult Nobody’s Talking About (Until Now)
Oh mein Gott, ich bin nervös. Einfach nicht mit dem Mann gehen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
144 - The Hollow Earth Cult Nobody’s Talking About (Until Now)
That was so funny.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
144 - The Hollow Earth Cult Nobody’s Talking About (Until Now)
I know. I know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
I do not think that they're obnoxious.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
So much better. That's good.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Henceforth. I declare. I declare as president. A decree from the president.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
No, dang it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Bop it. Twist it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Angel's got a reel. And he's going to show us right now. Angel's got a reel. Be quiet now. Show us now. Show us right now. Show a reel. Give it to us real good.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
That was a perfect catch.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
That can't work.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Thanks. All because of Andy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
that's scary the sun peeks out the dawn is new a golden light the sky so blue i rub my eyes and i stretch my hands but in the doorway the hat man stands The birds all sing a gentle tune. The flowers dance, they sway in bloom. I walk outside my heart so light.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
The kids all laugh, they skip and run. The summer air's so full of fun. I chase them fast, I leap and play.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Tip my tea, the world feels right. The breeze is warm, the sun is bright. In the glass past my own face, a silhouette I cannot erase. The porch sign hums, the stars all gleam. The fireflies dance a glowing stream. I close my eyes, drift soft asleep.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
I lock the doors and check them twice. No one's here, it's safe tonight. But in the dark behind my bed, a shadow shifts, a tilt of head. The walls feel tight, the air is thin. I hear the clock tick, ticking in. I try to move, I try to scream.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Oh my gosh, what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Und er geht. Das ist so furchtbar. Furchtbar an ihm. Das ist so lustig.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Don't stop, he keeps moving. You guys, it's horrible. And it's me. Stop. He keeps shooting. Wait. I show up late and you're just dying in his arms.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I'm a kangaroo.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Let me just play it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah. Laugh at that, please. No, because I want that to be the bullying aspect of it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Er ist nicht Präsident mehr?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Das wäre so cool. Wo, wo, zeig mir, wo.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Sorry. My bad.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
It was a woman flying. No!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That's his actual name. I'm a little scared. He gets so scared. Okay, a name.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
You're George from the supermarket.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Just pull out a book of baby names.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Geh wieder rein. Ich wusste nicht, was du tust.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Cut the cord! Wait, don't cut it! Don't set him free! It's a boy! And it's gonna kill us! Run!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
What is that from? Napoleon Dynamite. Not as much as you, you see. I still love technology. Always and forever. Man, you've got that nailed. Oh yeah. I made sure to memorize it as a kid. Um...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Yeah. There you go.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
You don't have a choice.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Yeah, she's really mechanically smart.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Yeah. It's a tongue twister. Andrew, hit us with that beat.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Hold on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
That's why I keep saying it. That's why I keep saying it. Hold on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
First of all, no. Yes. It's a classic movie. Love that movie. The He-Man Woman Hater Club. Yeah. So terrible song. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Don't even ask me to try.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
See what's lighting up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You should look inside my brain of me trying to connect everything. I think that's why I got dizzy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. Hey, Merry Christmas, everyone. I don't know how many times we've said that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I asked for peace on Earth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, I mean, just that all the euthanasia. Stop it. My family. Just be acknowledged, supported. I don't know. Don't get me crazy, but I just care about other people. Know that they're not.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Have you seen those headphones where it's like the vibration? Have you seen those? No. Your brother has a pair. Oh, yeah. You can literally swim underwater. Wow. What? There's no speakers. It literally vibrates, but you can hear the music. Interesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
The frequencies. That'd be cool. Swing with music on? John has a pair.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Speaking of gym music, I've been so excited to talk to you guys about this because I discovered it yesterday. I started listening to this new podcast, and it is blowing my mind. Crazy. It's called the Telepathy Tapes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's called Joe Rogan Experience, and I'm obsessed.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
This guy, I think he just came onto the scene and just brings on the craziest guests.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Just started this podcast.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But the telepathy tapes, I'm only one episode in and I'm hooked and it's, she is doing this podcast based off this study that there is this wide movement of people discovering that this is so wild that But that children with autism and nonverbal autism have telepathy. What? And it's it's it's the wildest thing, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
So she got in contact with this doctor who she studied at Johns Hopkins and then was a professor at Harvard. And she started like hearing about these nonverbal autistic kids being able to communicate or like know what their parents are thinking and others were thinking. OK. And she's like, OK, well, I got to study this. And so she put like her credibility on the line. Right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's like that sounds a little crazy. But she did this test to where brought in hundreds of kids that were claimed to have this ability, nonverbal. And what they would do is they would put a parent in another room and then have the child in another room. And they would show something on the screen, whether it was a number, a picture, a color, anything.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Hey, guys. Welcome to the conversation. Oh! Welcome back to...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And then they would go and the nonverbal kid would communicate on like an iPad or something what they were seeing. And they were 95% accurate with doing a case study of like, I think it was over 100 children.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yes. What? What? Yeah. And so the lady that started this podcast, she's like, I had to see it for myself. So she got in contact with the doctor and this doctor's like, dude, I get emails every single day from parents being like, I think this is what my child has. And so they, they ended up, uh, one of these emails was this little girl, her name is Mia in Mexico.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And so they set up this Skype with them and the mother's just explaining like, like Mia can only read her mother's mind. And she's noticed that since she she claimed since she was in the womb, like she just felt like something was different. And but Mia claims that she remembers everything from six months old and on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And when she looks at words and stuff, like the words are different colors, it's like all this really weird stuff. So they're like, well, let's do this experiment, right? So they set it up with the doctor and me and her family to meet in California. And the lady doing the podcast, she was in charge of everything. So she's like, I got to make sure there's no cheating, any of this stuff. Right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And so it was like the same concept. So there's a divider in the room and then Mia was sitting over here, mother sitting over there. And they started off with a number generator. And at first they're like, should we do one through 10? The doctor's like, no, it has to be three digits. So she's like, do 100 to 999. Random numbers will pop up in between that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
100 accurate mia was getting it and mia was just like laughing and like having so much fun she's like i can talk to my mom like through telepathy and the whole crew that were filming this they're just like what oh my god and then so they did another experiment where she was blindfolded
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
and they set up different colored popsicle sticks and they would hand me a popsicle stick and the mother would be looking at like, so if it was a yellow pop popsicle stick, they wanted me to put it on the yellow pile. Okay. And so Mia, it was like some type of blindfolds where they tested it and you literally can't see anything.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And so the mother would just look at the color and then Mia would place it on the color. 100% accurate.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But then they took it a step further, and they would open up a book, just a random book. They would grab a random book, hand it to the mother. It was in English, too, so the mother didn't speak any English. And she would be looking at like a word or a page number. And then Mia would type on her iPad exactly what it was, like the page number, the word, like what the mother was looking at.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And then they flipped to a page and it was a picture of a pirate. And Mia started to laugh because she apparently she loves pirates and shows she typed out pirate. And everyone's like, this is the wildest thing. But apparently it's a, it's, it's a phenomenon. Like a ton of autistic nonverbal kids somehow have this gift of telepathy. How is that possible?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But at least with Mia's case, it only worked with her mother. Yeah. So they're like, well, let's try it with your dad. And she couldn't get anything. And it actually made her really exhausted trying to do that. But only her mother. They said like her mother's like, I can't hide anything from her. Like like gifts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Like if there's like cookies, if she wants a cookie or like, oh, we don't have any cookies. She knows exactly where the cookies are. Like nothing. She can literally they're in each other's minds. That's trippy. Yeah. And what that just made me think of is like when we read Imagine the God of Heaven and just like the telepathy. So we're creating God's image, right? Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
yeah is that a part of our brain that can be like can we get that part of our brain working and have we just have we lost it you know like did we originally have it like adam and eve like could they have telepathy i don't know what do you think what would be the connection somebody wrote about that i don't know yeah i think i mean i feel like autistic kids typically have like a hyper focus
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, or they can access parts of their brain or parts of their brain are more active than others, right? So a lot of them are.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You're too good at your job making things disappear, Criss Angel. Oh my gosh. It's the one trick I couldn't master.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, we are.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But after listening to that, I immediately thought of Ada because she's been doing my oldest daughter. You mean the prophet that lives with you? She's been doing this really weird thing lately to where when we're putting them down to bed, it's not always, but some nights she'll just say something to me. A warning. It sounds like a warning. Oh, no.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And so it was like around Thanksgiving and I was going to put them down and then go get some from the grocery store. Ada didn't know that. She's three. And I said, okay, good night, Ada. She said, dad, don't drive tonight. I said, um. What? I said, why? Dad, don't drive tonight.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And so I didn't drive because I'm like, that was really spooky. I don't need those eggs that bad. And then this is, let me set this up first. The other night I had this dream about this like UFO and it was a lot like the orb thing that I saw in Tennessee. Okay. And it was terrifying. It felt so real and like not good. And ever since then, I've just been a little spooked by all these UFO videos.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But then it was two or three nights ago. I said, okay, good night, Ada. And then Ada goes, dad, don't look at the stars tonight. I said, what? I'm like, what do you mean? Dad, don't look at the stars tonight. And I let the dogs at one point, I like peeked my head. And I said, I can't do that. I don't want to look at the stars. So I don't know what's going on. And so I'm like, is she telepathic?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And I tested yesterday and she's definitely not. I said, Ada, what number am I thinking of? And I was thinking of six. She goes, three. I said, no, try again. She goes, three. I said, no. Three plus three.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh. No, because I asked again. She's like 10.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, like the emotion.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Isn't it weird that a lot of people also say these alien encounters and stuff are telepathic? It's so weird to me.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
What? What do you mean a new battery? Made out of what? Diamond and nuclear fusion. Fission? Fission.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's a nuclear powered diamond battery. And remember when we were talking about the electric car? I'm like, why are they? They made a battery that just lasts forever. Yeah. Well, apparently this battery can last over 5,000 years producing power. Is this finally going to be a B battery?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It is. Is it? And you kind of look like Dimitri Martin with the hair. Yes, I do. But this sounds like some ancient technology kind of stuff.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
No, so researchers at the University of Bristol have developed a groundbreaking carbon-14 diamond battery, a power source with a lifespan spanning thousands of years. The battery works by harnessing energy from a radioactive decay of carbon-14 safely encased within a diamond. This innovative design ensures continuous, reliable, and safe power generation.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
With applications ranging from healthcare to aerospace, this sustainable energy solution has the potential to revolutionize how we power devices and systems, offering a glimpse into the future of energy technology. Yay! That's crazy. Yeah, very cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
They said it's very safe. It's encased in a diamond, so they said it can literally never get out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Also, they said it's a lab-grown diamond.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Share. Yeah, share.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's a spicy meatball.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That bunny. That dang bunny. This is a picture of it, though. Someone's like, that's not a diamond battery. That's a Tesseract. Oh, my gosh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Is that crazy?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh, butter. Oh, butter. Mr. Ouchie. This is a wad of radiation. I feel your pain, Mr. Ouchie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Do you remember the news anchor when they reported on it seriously of that plane that crashed? Yeah, the fake names?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
So where is it? Ouchie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yes. Yes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It was seriously. Was Chris Angel the one that floated over the Grand Canyon or something? I think so. I do think that was him. I think I did that, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh, yeah, you did. Of course, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yo, David Blaine's trick, though. He does real stuff. Yeah, like how he swallows frogs? Yeah, where he just throws up all that water, and then a frog comes out. It's like, why? Why are you doing this?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It just takes a bucket and fills up like five gallons.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Dude, we got to get David Blaine on here.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Angels, we have heard on high.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's where you should look into the camera like that, and it'll go, question, question, right or mine? So do that. Do that. At the end? No, like right now. So we can just edit it in. That was in there. Anyways, so. Yeah, yeah. You'll get it. Just keep doing it. Bye, Frank. After every segment, just look at the camera.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh, we'll show you clips after. All right. You'll be hooked. Yeah. We weren't allowed to watch some of them, though. Well, okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Christmas. We got Antoni. We got Lily. Lily.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Because it was like my grandma said, it was demonic. Yeah, I wasn't allowed to play with Pokemon, so that's probably why I've never... Because that's demonic.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It was because you literally, you'd capture these monsters and you'd keep them and then you'd battle them. It's like capturing demons.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Tarantula? You got to get a tarantula alive? That's got hair.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You can kill them before you eat them though, right? Good question. Why'd you say 12?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You can't have the needles. Yeah, you can't have the needles.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Still. It can be used as a weapon.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Nope. Sorry, no yarn either. It's a penitentiary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
So now you just have to wait for a surprise birthday. Next year.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's Mr. Ouchie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That's only like a couple minutes of pure torture. That's what's going to... Compared to six weeks. All right, let's count the time back.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I feel like it's a lesson. I feel like prison is definitely different for men than it is for women.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, you guys got it easy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It was legit.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Well, it wasn't prison prison. It wasn't prison. It was female prison. It wasn't prison. Oh, Andrew, give us a beat. Oh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's just standing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Speaking of drones, we're just going to keep talking about it. The drones in New Jersey.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Have you seen this stuff?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's so weird, but it's actually happening now in Pennsylvania. But these people, they're calling them drones, but everyone else is calling them UFOs. But the government's like, they're drones. We don't know what drones, but we know they're drones. But apparently there's the size of a car.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
This isn't your birthday episode. We will have a birthday episode and you will never know when it's going to happen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, triangle-shaped. Okay. But they're as loud as an airplane, but they just hover and just make weird maneuvers. There's videos everywhere. You can look it up. I haven't seen any of these. That's crazy. Really? Okay, hold on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Recon or recon? Info or information? I saw some people talking about what these drones might be. The weird thing is that the FBI is like, we're investigating it, right? Yeah. But they've been popping up like every night. And they're like, yeah, we're going to investigate it. And we're going to get the FAA involved. Is it the FAA?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But still, there's no answers. And even the mayors of these towns, the governor, they're just like, we just want to know what this is. Sure, yeah. It's just too weird. It's like every night these things are just popping up over different neighborhoods. Right. They're loud, and they describe it as there's lights on all three corners with a big light in the middle.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And apparently... It's interesting they're loud. I know. That's not common. It sounds purposeful. Yeah, it doesn't sound like it would be like a... It sounds like human-made.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But people think it's this plane that others have seen and there's a name for it, but it's supposedly a secretive plane that doesn't exist, right? Made by Lockheed Martin. And it's called the TR-3B Black Manta.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
and what's so here's a like a rendering of like what it could people have said that it looks like oh yeah it looks like dude very similar but apparently this says that plane doesn't exist so yeah it's like it's the um skunk works kind of like got it they've hinted at like conceptual stuff but they're like it doesn't actually exist right but
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Right. But, I mean, that's what they do, too. Like, that's what they did with the Pegasus plane.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And it's like, this was a concept, but we have not worked on it. And then all of a sudden it's like, guys, look at what we have.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, well, they say that this plane has, it's like the first of its kind with anti-gravity technology. And some claim that it's from the skunkworks and stuff of what's been reported on even in Congress of like Lockheed. They have like their own like military base to where they go to supposedly crash UFO sites. Okay. And they reverse engineer.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
This is, it's like they talk about this in Congress, right? Uh-huh. And then others claim that it is actually Nazi technology from when the project paperclip happened. Whoa. When we brought over 1,400 scientists, by the way, Nazi scientists. Y-Files just came out with a video about Hitler still being alive, and it's fascinating.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But, yeah, so people think that they've been working on this ever since and that we've actually had this technology probably since like the 40s. Like the Nazis actually invented it first. Because there's all those reports of like U.S. soldiers saying like, oh, they have a UFO. It's like shaped like a bell. It hovers. It floats.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But I just thought it was super interesting that people were like, that's what it is. And it's like, well, why are they doing that? Right. Like to where just tons of people can see it. It seems a little nefarious of what they're doing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Hey, could this all be a marketing ploy? Santa's coming to town. You serious, Clark? He's sending out reconnaissance. For intel. For intel. Seeing who's been naughty and who's been nice. Correct. He told us what he was doing the whole time. The whole time. He's always been there.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Speaking of realistic angels, that's not the only thing people are seeing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
This is really weird. And it's really annoying because I saved the video on TikTok, and it's been deleted since. But I have another thing where I took a screenshot of it. But apparently this thing was in the sky, and it literally looked like a wheel within a wheel. Here, let me send it to you real quick.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
No, I took a screenshot of it because I'm like, oh, I'll just show them the video. Video doesn't exist anymore. So this was in the sky. Oh, weird. And it was like rotating. Yeah, you can see the curve on it. And then this, I stumbled across this as well. This is from 1697. Just sent it to you guys. Whoa. The year 1697?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
So this event happened in Hamburg, Germany, November 4th, 1967, or sorry, 1697. Depicting this artwork, the objects were described as being two glowing wheels. And they said that they were rotating within each other.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Hamburg.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. Interesting. That was 100 years before.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It was a UFO battle? Oh, yeah. So you obviously don't watch the podcast.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's a buttle, I think. Buttle. Rebuttle. Oh. Anyways, just weird stuff is happening.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Alright, this is my last UFO video I have. And it freaked me out because it looks just like that orb I saw in Tennessee.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Are we ready?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, the one I just sent you, if you scroll to 30 seconds in, they zoom in. And it's just like... Whoa.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
See how it's like the triangle? It looks a little like a B-drill.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Dang, I can't believe I sent you the orb video first. Dude, that is wild. But the way that thing moves, though, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It's crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Not that fast. It can't move like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh, the one. Yeah, well, it's not. I don't know. People are freaking out about it. And people don't freak out about helicopters, am I right? Never. I feel safer when there's a helicopter over my neighborhood.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Hey, speaking of birthdays. Yeah. You guys want a song? Yeah. You want a song?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
How's my reaction going to be?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, there was the, like, three police helicopters literally flying around our house for, like, 30 minutes. Oh, my gosh. And I got home, and my door was open.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, the side door. And I, like, got the gun. I'm walking around the house. I'm like, I'm in here. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Why did you take so long?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Oh. It's really great.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. And so we did. And it probably won't get flagged.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I don't believe.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You did? Yeah. I remember it was like Andy Denoon. You know the story. What? We're not telling it. We'll tell you after the podcast.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Speaking of Goopsy Daisy ghost. TikTok's getting banned.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
These are true things from the angel. Your eyeliner is like, it's just like, it's like almost not enough. I forgot I was wearing it, to be honest.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Speaking of running gags, what I was going to say, which by the time this comes out, the guy Luigi that they caught, the killer for the UnitedHealthcare CEO. Yeah, I saw that. There's a lot of weird stuff around that. I saw that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Very smart, comes from a very wealthy family. 26 years old. 26 years old. But he came out, apparently, this is not proven to be real or fake, but apparently he has a YouTube channel. And it was yesterday, hours after he was caught, this video was scheduled to be released on his YouTube channel. And it's a countdown clock, and it just says the truth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It says, if you see this, I'm already under arrest. And then it counts down.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
What? It was on his YouTube channel. And it says, all is scheduled. Be patient. Bye for now. When's the countdown? When's it end? I mean, it just ends. Oh, okay. So it counts all the way down, and it just says... this is not on his channel. I couldn't find his channel, but I saw screenshots of people that found it. Um, but yeah, it was just super weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And supposedly he has another video scheduled for like the 17th or something. I don't know. It's really weird. But I saw a thing. It was on the news. They said that when they caught him, this was weird, too. They said that it was at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. And somehow how they caught him was he handed his ID over to someone at McDonald's.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. And the guy's like, this is a fake ID. Trying to buy a McBeer? I think so, yeah. Not with this, you ain't. And so they caught him that way.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But then when they questioned him, he had a backpack. And supposedly it was a backpack that you put a phone in and stuff that it can't be tracked. It has like that signal block. And he's like, no, it's just a waterproof backpack.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, well, he also had $8,000 in cash.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
All right. Let's see. Let's see.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
He said they planted it. Yeah, he said, I didn't put that money in my backpack. And he had $1,000 in foreign currency in his backpack. Didn't he have Monopoly money, too? What? I saw a thing. Yeah, it said something about that, too. But he legit had $8,000 of cash, $1,000 of foreign currency. He said, I don't know how that got in my backpack. Someone must have put that in.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
If the dude wanted to get away, he could have got away. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
That was a theory that someone on Reddit is like, I tracked his bike. And then it turns out it was the guy who shot him was the guy that was saying, I tracked the bike. Yeah, so there's a lot of speculation out there. Yeah, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Anthony, if you feel like you can come in at any point. Okay. Feel free.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
A weird thing that stuck out to me, and I told Lily this last night, they said on the casings of the bullets was the deny, what were the words? Depose was the last one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But they presented it like, yeah, we found these words, and they said it in that order. But then later it came out, I was like, oh, there's actually a book called Delay or Deny, Delay, whatever.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
The same way that they said it on the news, before knowing that this book existed.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And it just so happens that this gun was apparently 3D printed. So it's like you can't trace it back to anything. And like, so like, because if you had a gun, you could trace it back to where it came from. Right. I don't like 3D printed guns.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It is. The whole thing seems really suspect to me, though. It seems like an MKUltra kind of thing. That's what a lot of people are saying. That'd be wacky. Because this guy, his life seemed like it was a great life. Yeah, he was a traveler. He comes from a very wealthy family, super smart.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I don't think that's true.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. He broke his back because that was actually on his Instagram. And apparently he was denied for something with that. But then also they said that his grandparents died a year ago and they were denied coverage or something. Hmm. It's very weird. It's like, but it just, I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
The thing is he comes from an extremely wealthy family. Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Like really wealthy. Yeah. Like they own like a bunch of like retirement communities or something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I mean, but we obviously can't blame the CIA or anything, because they've never done anything. No, they're our friends. Suspect or weird, you know?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Not as long as I've known them. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Anyways.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Aren't you going to do another trick?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
You're a demon. He's like, what are you drinking? Orange soda. Are you sure? It's not Cheez-Its? What are you talking about? Cheez-Its!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Those are the best.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. Make sure to go to our, if you're on YouTube, subscribe, like the video, comment something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Well, it was Christmas Eve. I knew just what to do with the snow coming down over me and you. We were having so much fun on this special day, but I stepped on something and said, no way.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah. And follow us on Spotify or Apple. Give us five stars. It really helps. Right, Lily? Right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Tell them where to go for your stuff. And what are you doing? What are you doing?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
So is it like a continuation to where you can put them in? You can merge them.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I propped him up and I walked in their town. The police showed up, said hit the ground. No sudden movements, we have a gun. Then Greg woke up and started to run.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
We tried to do that. Anthony had a really good idea for a song, but we didn't listen to it. It would have taken a lot of practice, though. I know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next year, we're going to have a saxophone player in here, too. Dude, can we get Kenny G just to walk through the door?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
But yeah, speaking of Anthony Russo, everyone be quiet. I'm sorry I don't know what you're doing I'm not a creature restoring not even a mouse that's funny my bad anyways this Christmas there's a lot of joy happening right that's what the Christmas season's about joy happiness giving of gifts celebrating our lord and savior being born see yeah But this question, I'm afraid, is not so joyful.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
And it scares me, Andy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
It scares me, Andrew. Anthony, it scares me. Oh, no. Lily, I think you will actually answer this one correctly. Because I feel like there's no way around it. So today's question is sent in by a viewer. Should we support euthanasia? I mean, it seems like it's pretty obvious.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
I mean, I think, well, for Lily's birthday, I mean, I feel like she could answer first. Yeah, you're right. That's not a birthday. It's Christmas, and this is part of your present of us giving you the gift of answering it first.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah, it literally says, should we support euthanasia? Please have Lily answer it first. It's because it's her birthday.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
First, right? Yeah, there's the PS mark. So, Lily, should we support euthanasia? No.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
This was a softball question. A lot of their cultures, the parents just neglect the youth and say, figure it out yourself.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Hey, this podcast is brought to you in power by Sunday Cool. Watch this or listen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Yep. Very good. Very good. We're here, ladies and gentlemen. Ninjas are butterflies. Welcome to episode 125. Ooh, 125. Halfway to a bigger number. What's 125 half of?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Oh. That's scary, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Totally secure. Totally secure.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Like a little baby.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Welcome to the Gulf of... I don't like that. The Love Gulf. We should have voted. He should have said, listen, it'll be the Gulf of America unless all of you could decide on one name.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Yep, that would be great.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Absolutely.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Wind's in the east.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
It's coming in.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
What was that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
I'm a doctor, but I'm a cool doctor.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Let's listen to the sound it makes first.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Oh. This beat. Oh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Oh, God.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
That was terrible.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Kid show toy noises. Emoji con. Emoji con. Ajayf.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Yeah. If you don't, you die. What have we learned today? I learned that my friends love me. Right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Yes, it has a little pink on it. A little pink.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
It's cute.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
You're going to do whatever you want to do. Let's do it. Oh, Lily. Oh, Lily. She hates the Libby. Hates the app.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Oh, yeah. Lily reads books. Does she? Actually just listens to them. Oh, boy. When she buys them credits, she gives it to them. That I do. Lily. Lily hates Libby. Lily hates Libby. Libby, change your lips. Libby hates Libby. That was good.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
She's changed.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
And we don't like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
I don't even like saying the word no.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But no pictures.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I don't either.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
That's weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Magic mind.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Oh, no. Under the surface. Real quick.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Now I heard there was a bell that told From the tower all its story told But you don't really care for Notre Dame, do ya? He rings the bell, he swings and jumps He gots big eyes and a big ol' hump We look at him and we know it's Quasimodo Quasimodo Quasimodo Quasimodo Quasimodo
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Dollar menu forever! No inflation. Please don't kill me. Jeez.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so you guys are perfect. Not neutral. You guys are perfect.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
This is sick.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, my gosh.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
You know, thanks for having me. Long-time listener, second-time caller. Very proud of that. You know, I think, so I worked for Broadcom previously, VMware. We've just gone through the acquisition and, you know, we went from a company that said work from anywhere and encourage people to move out of the Bay Area. during COVID and, you know, live wherever you want.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
We understand remote work is very valuable. Transitioning to a culture that is 100% be in the office five days a week, not dissimilar to the Amazon mandate. I think the reasoning behind it was a little bit different where it wasn't we strengthen our culture. It was this is our culture. And if you don't like it, we understand you can find another opportunity.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And so, you know, I think we've been going through a lot of the same challenges of being told to come to the office, but, you know, Brian, you joke, like, people don't have assigned seats. There's not enough seats for people to come to the office. There's not conference rooms, so, you know, people come to the office and they need to have a meeting and can't do it.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And so I think a lot of the frustration, you know, people do see the frustration of why am I commuting and, you know, is there actual value in it? But I think kind of what you both alluded to is previously when people came to the office, they...
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
they saw a benefit in coming to the office, or at least they had some of the cultural things that they like, meeting people, talking about different things, working with different teams, all of that stuff. And the biggest thing that I've seen frustrating people is that
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
they're mandated to come back to the office, but then they're actively not doing anything to make it easy for people to come back to the office.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And so that's where people are sort of saying like, well, if this is so important and we're really trying to strengthen our culture and embrace it and make it stronger, why are you making it harder for everybody to do their job such that being in the office is a detriment as opposed to a benefit?
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And so I think that's one of the things where it's really sort of made people question what's the underlying motivation. And You know, I don't want to call Brian a conspiracy theorist, but sort of leading them down that rabbit hole of, okay, what's the real meaning behind this and what are they trying to accomplish? And then the only other thing that I would... What is it?
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
No, I think one of the things that is different about Broadcom that has been sort of a revelation for me is previously I've worked at largely software companies. Some companies, we also sold hardware, but I wouldn't call us hardware companies. Broadcom has a pretty big background in hardware where a lot of the people doing work literally have to be in the office to do that work.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And so when COVID shut down, labs and foundries and all of these places where people worked, it had sort of a very material impact on the business. And I think that sort of caused in leadership's mind, like that was something that was really scary to them and sort of an existential threat to the business.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And so, you know, them having that background where you had to be at work and you could no longer do it, I think, you know, caused more panic than I would expect to at a pure software place.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
No, Brian, but again, I think you go back to it, right? And you say like, well, Andy Jassy sitting there being like, if there's nobody in the office, am I doing my job? If you grew up in a culture where the people working on hardware were sitting in a room working in a lab, right?
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Like, again, I think it's the thing that you remember and the thing that you connect to and what was critical and what was successful. It doesn't mean it's rational, right? But like, I think those are the things that then feed into, okay, well, that's the culture that made me successful. It's worked. I don't want to move away from it. Therefore, it should work for everybody.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
It's like, I'm glad you raised that point, Brian, because we do have a dress code. Now, I have not been sent home from work yet for inappropriate or not meeting the dress code, which, you know, for folks who don't know me, that's pretty much every day. But yes, according to our handbook, we do also have a dress code. So I don't know if the two things go together.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Yeah, no, and I'm still looking for a lawyer if there's anyone on the call who's willing to represent me when this comes to a head.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Yeah, I think for the VMware folks, it's been, you know, I think sort of doubly challenging because as the pandemic hit, right? Like, I think one of the things that VMware did really well is sort of look at this and be like, hey, you know what? Like, being in the office isn't why we collaborate well together. It's not why we've been successful. We're going to embrace remote work.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And, you know, told people, yeah, it's okay. You can move away from an office. You can move somewhere else. You don't have to, like, this isn't a problem. Like, VMware is going to support remote work. And that was VMware's stance.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Obviously, you know, we didn't know, they didn't know what Broadcom was going to mandate or any of these other things, or even if the acquisition was happening at that point. But I think that for people coming through the acquisition, right, who had just moved away, I think the change was sort of doubly painful, right?
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Where it's one thing to sort of say, hey, yeah, like I did it before, I have the option to do it again if I want to continue working here, versus, well, you told me that I could do this, I moved away, and now you're basically telling me I have to move back or, you know, I don't have a role as a company anymore.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And I think it was one of those things, again, where other companies are saying, hey, you have to work in the office. It was one of the things where we could say, well, we're different, right? And that attracted people who wanted to come work with us. And so I think that transition has been hard.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And then, you know, I think the second piece again is like it being, again, akin to a dress code or sort of, you know, a rule that the principal told you, as opposed to, you know, managers and leadership being accountable for making coming to the office a valuable, productive thing that, you know, adds value and actually benefits the culture.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And so I think there's been a fair amount of resistance and frustration. You know, the flip side is like the economy isn't necessarily where it was. And so, you know, for some folks, that's also a concern. So I think people are complying with it, but it's sort of like trying to figure out how to follow the rule, not trying to figure out
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
How do we get back to Z-ball or chariot races and the other things that sort of made the office what it was and how do we give people that experience? And so, again, I think because people don't see the or believe in the motivation behind it, the way that they're approaching it is sort of how do I toe the line as opposed to, hey, look, you know, Z-ball was really fun.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And there's just one thing that I want to say real quick. I do actually kind of want to give a shout out to Hawk Tan, where people ask this exact question to him, right? And his answer is like, I get it. He's like, I don't have data for this. He's like, this is what I believe. This is the culture that I want. And I understand if it doesn't work for you, but it works for me.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And it's not about these things like this is the belief and the thing that I want to go do. That's why I'm doing it. And so I at least give him credit for saying that's behind it and not sort of trying to come up with, oh, but, you know, innovation was better, these other things. Whereas other folks I feel like have said, hey, look, it was better, but I can't do anything.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
So I give him credit for saying, this is how I think about it. If you don't like it, that's fine. But you're not going to change my mind.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
I agree. But again, where I give him credit is he says, yeah, people are going to leave. And if they're going to leave, that's the outcome. I'm fine with it. And so again, like at least to me, he's saying what he thinks will happen and understands the consequences of it and still wants to do it. He's not sort of making up reasons.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
So, I mean, like any software organization, right, like shit hits the fan and people are working late into the night because, you know, like the main check-in pipeline is broken or there's a critical customer escalation or there's a deadline for a patch release that we need to hit.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And, you know, previously, I think people sort of were much more willing to sort of, you know, go the extra mile or say, oh, okay, yeah, like, you know, I'm going to work really hard this weekend because we really need to get this thing done. And then I'll just, you know, like I'll take a couple days off next week and, you know, it all evens out in the wash.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
What I've seen is that that goodwill is just gone where it's like, well, no, like if I stay up working until two in the morning because I need to make sure that this customer is healthy, you're telling me I need to be in the office the next day.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Exactly. And you get the phone call or the email saying, why weren't you here on Tuesday? You don't get it being like, hey, thanks for staying up Monday night to midnight to make sure that the upgrade for this critical customer went through and we met their timeline. And so, again, I think it gets to that notion where there's previously been trust. Right.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And that trust is sort of like the building block of everything. And this is like one of the sort of like silliest and fastest ways, it seems, to avoid that trust. And the result is people are now sort of like, OK, well, if you don't trust me to figure out where to be and when to work, why should I trust you that, you know, you're going to reward me or at least support me for doing the right thing?
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
I think, Brian, I think the RTO stuff, when you say it's going to backfire, I think you have to look at like, how is it going to backfire? Where I think there's some companies that previously have been more focused on innovation and change and driving new things.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
And for larger companies that conceivably are transitioning away from that to a more stable business and, you know, slow growth and just keep the machine moving forward. I don't know how much it'll backfire. Where I think it's going to hurt people is all the things that Amazon said in their memo about we want to have a startup culture and work fast and be innovative and do those things.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
That's where I think it's really going to hurt. There are a bunch of places where I don't think that's what they want. That's not important. For those companies, I think it may work well because it'll attract the set of people that they're looking for to go do the job that they want. And so I think the RTO stuff, I don't know. I think for some companies, it's not going to be a fad.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
It's going to be something that exists until sort of this generation of people in C positions ages out and the next generation decides that this is a company that they want to work at or not.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Yeah, and thank you for the intervention. It's a long time coming, and I have to do some soul searching.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
I'm game, Brian. I have to figure out how to turn this corner. I think the only other thing here you guys talk about... Hearing you talk about Sun when you talk about remote work starting, I also seem to remember that was around the time when cars left outside of Building 17 had their catalytic converter stolen. So I wonder if there's a correlation.
Oxide and Friends
RTO or GTFO
Just like that at the deposition, Brian. That was perfect. That's exactly what I'm looking for.
PBD Podcast
S&P 500 Dives As Trump Hints At Recession | PBD Podcast | Ep. 559
But you... are uniquely qualified to get this answer because one of us can call the president of the United States right now and ask him. And the other one is me. So why don't you know?
PBD Podcast
S&P 500 Dives As Trump Hints At Recession | PBD Podcast | Ep. 559
Because if you know, if you know that Tom Cotton said you can't pick this person. That is correct. And then you didn't go to him and find out why.
PBD Podcast
S&P 500 Dives As Trump Hints At Recession | PBD Podcast | Ep. 559
You are like the spirit animal of that administration.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Yeah.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Find out about the negative bias.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
No, it's not about less bias. It's more towards having an unfavorable attitude. So a person might have a negative bias towards a particular political party, leading them to disregard positive aspects of that party.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
So exactly what they are.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Yeah, right. Something like that, yeah.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Princeton.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
And Harvard.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
That sounds terrible. Launching on 11th of July.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
People don't understand how calculated you are. They underestimate it really hard.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
I was just going to say that.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Yesterday in your story, you put that. And out of curiosity, I just looked it up.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
It was January 7th, 1999.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
I just wanted to bring that up because that gives an example of how calculated you are. The numbers on your story are not even random.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Butter chicken, orange.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
I like the orange the best. Absolutely.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Orange President?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Well, the audience should let us know if they agree with your rankings or not.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
I mean, when they tried it.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Christian Bale.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
Back when they made good movies?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
887. Andy & DJ CTI: French President Macron Shoved In Face By Wife, Parents Confront Trans Track Star Athlete's Mother & COVID Vaccines No Longer Recommended
And if you ask for something unique, you have to go to the backyard to get it.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see that. I can see that now. It's just a shift of perspective. I guess it's just, you know, the inner voice in my head just, You're just kind of like, hey, man, you should be doing this, you should be doing that. I can't relax.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Yeah, that's powerful. Thank you. I appreciate you, man.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think, well, what's it all for if we're not enjoying the journey, right? I guess, you know, it's just – yeah, I think you're right. I think, you know, you put in the work so you can reap the rewards. I think just maybe a mental shift I need to make that, like, you can enjoy – the fruits of your labor where you don't have to feel like, okay, I still got to do this.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Okay, well, we got to get home because I got to do this. Like be in the moment probably is something I'm trying to tell myself right now.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
And yeah, not rush through.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to do that.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Oh, yeah.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Dude, I mean, you know, keep shining the light, boys. I mean, you know, thank God we made this shift, and I'm so happy. I have a lot of hope for our future now. I mean, I was worried there for a minute. I was getting ready, but, um, you know, I don't want to see the wood chipper out there. That's my, my last wish. That's the only thing I missed.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Oh, thank you guys. Thank you. I appreciate the call. I mean, this is a, Yeah, really precious. I appreciate you guys.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
All right. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, DJ.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
All right.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
100%.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
This is crazy. Oh, I will. I will.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Oh, my God. Damn, this is surreal, man. You don't even know. I've been listening to you guys since MSCEO. I found you during COVID, all that bullshit. And it changed my life, man. I started earning a lot better at my job. I started getting focused. I knew what the real was. Thank God, at the time, it really helped me get through a lot of the bullshit out there. Yeah.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
man, and just navigate life and my family. So thank you guys for that.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Man, my question is, how do I take time for myself without feeling guilty about it? I just struggle with this. As a dad and a provider, I feel like you know, even when I sit down on the couch after a long day, or if I want to chill and go and do something like in my mind, I still hear that voice like, Hey, you should be doing this. Hey, you know, you need to get up and do that.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
864. Q&AF: Young Entrepreneur With Big Goals, Taking Out Time For Yourself & Building Company Culture As A Young Leader
Hey, someone's got to take that, take that out. You know, like there's always something. I just, I don't know how to kind of be okay with putting me first. Okay. My question.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
Hi. Hey, how's it going? How's it going? Welcome.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
Are you normally a Royals person? I am not normally a Royals person. I came into this when it just felt like the entire world was conspiring to make me care. Yes. You know, and I needed to find my own way to care about it. Right.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
Exactly. I need to find a hidey hole that feels like it's my own. Yes. Yeah.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
So, okay, around the time of all of the coronation drama, I went down this really insane rabbit hole looking up facts about Buckingham Palace. I guess I was just kind of intrigued by this idea that Prince Charles was moving into a new palace, and it just looked so beautiful and stately from the outside, and I was like, I wonder what it looks on the inside.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
It's probably the most famous palace in the world. We all can imagine what it looks like on the outside. It's just like... the storybook version of a palace.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
Can we look at it? Of course. So, okay. Pulling it up on Google Images. I'm going to show you the outside.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
It's insane. And the idea of living in it is just so inconceivable.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, the White House is a really interesting thing to compare it to because the White House, I just have zero curiosity about what it's like in there. I feel like I know. It's like boring wallpaper. It's four poster beds. You know what I mean? And it just looks small and rinky-dink compared to this. Let's Google the number of rooms. I feel like it's close to a thousand.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
775. That's fucking insane. That's crazy. Like, we're in my apartment right now. It's approximately three rooms.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
One thing that I surfaced in my research about Buckingham Palace was there's a pool. Obviously there's a pool. That's a very commonplace amenity. But there are no pictures of the pool. No one's outside of the royal family seems to have seen this pool. It's a very private amenity. Wait, no one's ever taken a photograph of the pool in Buckingham Palace? It does not exist on the internet.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
There are speculations about where it is. So if you Google this pool, you'll see this little chunk. So I'm also...
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
That is exactly what it's like. And I need to know what it looks like in there. So look, this is a closer picture of it. I think this is about the closest we've ever been.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
It's the Parthenon with windows. It's the Parthenon with windows if it were just a swimming pool.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
The reason that we haven't been able to see the swimming pool is actually what makes me feel like I need to see it. I just kind of imagine that it's the coolest swimming pool ever. Like that's sort of how I think of it.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
I think it's the rarest marble. Yeah, I think it's just insane materials that it's made of.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
Yeah, I agree. I think every detail has been considered, including that one.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
I would settle for anything better than what's out there online. Any kind of imagery you could paint for me around the interior, any scenes you can paint for me, like, yeah, so-and-so went to the pool and ordered poolside Negronis.
Search Engine
Why is the pool at Buckingham Palace a secret?
All right. Thank you, Chris. I believe in you. Thank you.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
Isn't it weird that you guys went to all this trouble to be like, and I don't mean this in like the Supreme Court says the word, but like to just be discriminated against?
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
Really? Yeah. And then what did it feel like to be rejected?
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
And they're like, we want... Cuspy, like, on the cusp of a decision.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
Wholesome. What was the last thing? Healthy? Respectful, wholesome, and healthy partying. Okay.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
We're closer to silly, I think. So we have these friends, I want to tell you about, who just like didn't get into Berghain and are confused about it. But it's sort of an excuse to tell the larger story about nightlife.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
So you're going to Berlin, and, like, how many days were you going for? I think it was, like, 72 hours in Berlin.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
I've been to concerts where people were not facing the artist and talking to each other.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
It's too generic of a top, the vest.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
Your read is so good. Chris, who I know better, he's a lovely, he's one of my favorite people to spend time with.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
This is Santa Claus logic. There's no way they're watching you the entire time.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
Everyone's just completely quiet. Everyone's totally quiet. That's so funny. And what happens when you walk up? Do you straighten your posture?
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
It's hard because you're like, how do I not look desperate after waiting in line for several hours to get into the most exclusive nightclub in the world? It's like a witch hunt where every person in line is a witch. Yeah.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
Yeah. Yeah. So you walk up, you say, like, how's your night? He says nothing. Is he just looking at you?
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
And how do they communicate it to you?
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
So the gesture you're doing is actually the gesture one used to be like, welcome to my home, but it's welcome to not my home. Like, it's the arm goes out, the palm's outstretched. Like, look at this, you're not going to a nightclub.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
During the day and separately. Okay. And the idea being, during the day, less competition. Separately, the bouncer might respect you more.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
But is it the same bouncers from the night before? Yes.
Search Engine
Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
I can't believe we had to go on a podcast to like... You're like, I think you saw into my soul.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
I am Chris Robeson. I am the president and owner of the Robeson Company.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
Do you remember the first time you saw that begin to happen? We started feeling that about 12 years ago. I would say it really started to hit about 10 years ago where we were seeing a lot of stuff and we were doing quoting for new tooling projects only to find out that they went overseas for them. And some of them even approached us by saying, well,
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
You know, we got these molds in from China and they need to be groomed. Would you be interested in that? I go, no. If we're not building them, we're not going to service them. That's the way we've taken our stand on trying to keep everything in-house in the U.S.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
I don't see that happening. willingness to go into vocational education. People do not want to go into tool and die making. We have a hard time finding tool and die makers.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
They don't want to go into a four-year tool and die apprenticeship because that means they've got to take extra classes and they're not going to see the pay scale until they get to be a journeyman tool and die maker, where if somebody can come out of a tech school and make, you know, $25, $30 an hour, and all you have to do is press a button on a CNC, hey, it's hard to turn away.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
I feel like a dinosaur, quite frankly. I am. I am almost 70 years old. I've trained the person I have working for me now, and he wants to actually take over my business someday. But as far as education, I just don't see the same quality coming out of the tech schools that I'd like to see in an apprenticeship. But a lot of it comes down to people don't want to work with their hands.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
They can spend time in front of a computer. They're happy as a clam. Also, the high schools don't push it either. They're more competitive. aimed at trying to fill the academic roles as opposed to the vocational roles. And I got to be honest, you know, even though at my age, I thought about that too.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
Why am I doing this when I can certainly go somewhere else and make about two grand a week and be a lot happier? And why didn't you do it? I love what I do. I love the creativity. I love the aspect that I can help somebody design something and go from concept to completion to actually get a plastic part. That's one of the things that's sort of fun with doing the scrubber.
Search Engine
The Puzzle of the All-American BBQ Scrubber
You know, we got a chance to go right from conception and work with those guys to make it happen. And that's a lot of fun.
Search Engine
How did the first democracy die?
I do. I use it for everything. I'm basically a cyborg at this point. How do you use it? If I am going into a meeting with a prospect, a company that we want to work with, I will have a chatbot basically pull together all the information I need to know to be successful in that meeting.
Search Engine
How did the first democracy die?
It's just incredible crunching through a ton of research and condensing it and helping me walk into a meeting really prepared. So research is one big use case. Business development ideas. So if I'm feeling like we're stalling out on growth in any given month, I might turn to a chatbot and ask, what are some other companies we might approach that fit this profile?
Search Engine
How did the first democracy die?
And it's great at delivering just a big, long list of ideas. So it's good at sort of helping me brainstorm. It's really a sounding board on those sorts of things. Do you use it as like a plucky intern? Yes, a plucky intern for all of my anxious rabbit holes. Ha ha ha ha ha!
Search Engine
How did the first democracy die?
It was a moment where once again we learned there are two kinds of people.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
Yeah, I'm Chris Glenn. I go by Chris, but, you know, I hadn't really thought about any kind of like anonymity idea or anything like that. Do you want any anonymity? If you want it, we can offer it. If you don't care, we don't need to. I decided basically I don't care. I would be happy to have my name attached to anything I say. It's fine.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
Yeah, absolutely. I, over the years, have had struggles with addiction of various kind, mostly alcohol. And so it's been a couple years ago now, I was really doing badly with alcohol and drinking a lot and decided to get into rehab, went to detox first, and then got into outpatient rehab program. And it was actually there that one of the people in group, he was a lot like me.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
His main problem was alcohol, but any kind of substance that crossed his path, he might have problems with. I'm the same way.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
And at that point, I didn't even know what that was. My awareness of it was basically like a sign lit up on the window of the vape shop, which around here is the main place where you see it. And the vape shops are as common as check cashing places. They're just everywhere. So my addict brain was like, on the one hand, oh, this is something to really avoid.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
And then on the other hand, something that I didn't really know about that was really obviously easy to get kind of piqued the curiosity there. Yeah. So did well with rehab and got back to work and was keeping clean off everything for about a month. Then started back up with smoking pot.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
And around that same time, I popped into the vape shop to get tobacco or weed related stuff and was like, I'm going to try some of these kratoms.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
So the way that I got it initially was in capsules, but it looks like an herb powder. And the capsules, they could be vitamin pills, or you can also get just like a powder or liquid form of it. And it's just really nasty, very bitter. What did the high of it feel like? It's not very pervasive. It doesn't get all over you, like even like smoking cannabis or anything.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
But main things that I noticed, pain completely gone. All the like body aches and all that stuff, just not there at all. Nervous eating, nervous, all kinds of things that I deal with all the time were greatly lessened. But honestly... As soon as those beneficial things started showing up, it came right along with it where I noticed if I didn't take them for a while, I just felt crappy.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
And what did crappy feel like? Like emotionally low, really pissy, just like in a really bad mood. And then my pain would come back too.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
People that I worked with are cannabis people, and they all thought that it was just completely lame. It would just be like, why in the world would anybody ever take that when you can just smoke or things like that? So yeah, I started doing stuff like I would go to different shops because I was like, I don't want to run into my coworkers buying this stuff and stuff like that.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
I was just embarrassed about it. But I asked a guy at one of the shops, I was like, I usually get this stuff. What's the best? What do people like to get? And he was like, this one guy gets this every week, just loves it, swears by it. And this was a smaller bottle of capsules again, but this was branded Tiana. And I didn't even look at the small print or anything.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
I just thought another kind of Kratom, another brand of Kratom.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
But it was much more expensive. So whereas I had been taking like... four Kratom pills at a time. I got this stuff and I took two and I felt great. Pain was gone. Pretty good, kind of euphoric vibe. Basically everything that the Kratom had done, but just like a little bit more.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
I would wake up midway through the night, heavy night sweats, and have to take more of the pills before I could fall back to sleep again. In the morning, I would take them into the bathroom with me and take three or four every couple hours at work.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
Yeah, I have the same way. I've taken them for an injury, but never recreationally. Were you surprised to find yourself in such deep water with something that you could buy at a vape shop? Absolutely. And the whole time I was really struggling with it because it was like, I knew I was hooked on it and that I was having these adverse effects. And at the same time, I was like,
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
It can't be that big of a deal. I'm struggling with something that everybody else would deal with very easily because it's just this casual vape store stuff. I feel embarrassed to try to get help about it. This is not like alcohol where everybody understands what a Big problem it can be. Were you telling anybody that you were using it?
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
Yeah, I mean, I went into detox for this eventually at the same center that I've been to rehab for alcohol. And honestly... mostly found there that people knew just as little about it as anywhere oh really yep
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
Everybody. Yeah. Practitioners, the psychiatrist in charge of the place was doing research on it. That's such a crazy feeling to walk in and they're like, you know, I'm going to need to Google this one. Yeah. It's nuts, man. It is. And so I was having really serious withdrawal symptoms. Yeah. And I would describe those to the doctor or the intake people or whatnot.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
And they were like, that sounds just like opioids. I had these body aches and joint pain and extreme anxiety and crawling skin. And yeah, it was at the same time hard to... wrap my head around that it was even a real problem or that anybody was going to acknowledge it. And then also in my face that it was definitely a big problem.
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
Yeah. How are you now? I'm good. It's been like six months since I've taken any of those now. Congratulations. Thanks. I feel much healthier and happier. And for you as a question, just like essentially like what was that? What was that drug? Is it an opioid? Yeah, I'm curious about specifically what is it? How's it made? How does it get here?
Search Engine
The Mystery of the Vape Shop Kratom
And I just, I would like to know, are other people struggling with it? Are there government or law enforcement or regulatory agencies that are working on it? All right, let me find out what we can learn. Okay.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yeah, it was the intro for Worst Case Scenario. It was good. Because we're talking about her ending up on the pole like both of our children.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Let's stop talking about this. So you go to pick up your parents. We make it to the house. We find out that she can't find the shirt from Florida. Dad's Daytona t-shirt. Yeah, the t-shirt that he gives her at the pool. Right. Which was going to be her something old.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Okay, so she can't find it. So she's a little, you know, off center. So Kevin- Did you have anything blue or old at your wedding? Oh, that's a good question. I didn't. No? No. Did Rach? I don't think so. Did Rye? I don't know if my wife, I'm sure she did. I'm sure she did. So let me say that before. I don't know what they are. Okay. So she kept them to herself.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Please. Let us know. Let us know. I'll ask her for an answer.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
So they start to find all the stuff in the house that they can that belonged to dad. And it's a lot of hard metal. There's hammers. A baseball bat. Right? Like we start talking about, we've got a lot of good options. You know what I'm saying? And she's like, you know what? I came up with something else. I'm all good. I'll see you guys in a minute.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
She's actually kind of cool about this whole thing. A little too cool. What's going on here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she winds up going out, leaving the house and going to the ice cream shop that she used to go to with her dad. She's looking for butterscotch, is that?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Banana cream. Yeah. Banana cream. And it's under new management, is the ice cream shop. The sort of quaint place is now- One of these fancy spots. Yeah, it looks like they do some sort of fusion and all kinds of stuff.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That doesn't sound terrible when you say it.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
How does Toby feel about getting hitched at the family cabin?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Then we... Toby's parents. Toby's parents. Let's do that. Yeah. Let's do that.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
You should get Dan Lorre. And can we talk, I mean, I don't like to, I want to make it as comfortable as possible, but Wendy Malek is a smoke show. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That woman is just gorgeous. Beautiful, yeah. Absolutely insanely gorgeous and a lovely human being inside and out, right? And it's, Toby is not, you see that there's not 100% comfort.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Is that he wanted to have the wedding. I think Kate at some point in time was like, let's just keep it simple, small. And Toby's like, this should be something to be remembered. A thing. Let's make it a thing. Let me ask you guys, was that one of your weddings?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
You had set up before we see them in the car that my dad is always asking my mom to marry her boyfriend so he can stop paying alimony. I was like, wow, that says a lot.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And Wendy was never a parent. Like, she's just shooting, right?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
This is her step into that sort of thing. And then just to continue with you and your parents for a hot second, right? Because they wind up on your wedding day.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
sort of expressing concern for the person that you've chosen to marry. What a hell of a thing to do on the day of the nuptials.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
But here's to their credit, right? Because we know a little bit about what happened with the last marriage and how it caused one of the lowest points in your life where you had sort of suicidal ideation, right? Like there was contemplation about it and they just, like as a protective parent, didn't want to see you going, bending yourself over backwards for somebody to make them happy.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
that didn't seem like they wanted to be happy.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
If we jump to, Kate goes in the car, she takes the urn with her, and she winds up going not to the tree, but a tree that she and her dad used to go to when they would come to visit. This family has real affection for trees. I think we like trees.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
What does she say? She says some things in this conversation with the urn.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
So I want to give a shout out to another podcast that Sully turned me on to that sort of sometimes partially recontextualizes the things that children say. The telepathy tapes.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It's really great. If you guys get a chance, check it out. And it's about sort of non-speakers having the ability to communicate through mentally.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yes. But one of the things that it sort of got me into is like, past life regressions and stuff, and I don't want to get too deep into it, but I do feel like there's something to when kids say things like, oh yeah, I'm married to my best friend, where you're like, maybe he was married to his best friend.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Like, was it always how you imagined in your mind? Were you and Taylor of one mind going into it? Or did you guys have to like find the compromise together?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yeah, there's a later episode where this woman is communicating with horses and the horse, this one horse is getting particularly freaked out anytime its rider takes it on long distance trips. And so the therapist who's able to communicate telepathically with the horse says, the horse doesn't know when you're going to hit a bump and it gets very dizzy.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
So if you can just let the horse know when a bump is going to come or turn or something, if you give it a heads up, then she can brace herself and you'll be fine. So they go on this 12 hour trip. They take it. And the whole time she narrates what the trip is going to be up, making a left, making a right. There's a big bump coming. Got to the end of the trip. The horse was fine, right?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Wound up taking second place, getting the silver trophy. On the way back home, completely forgets to do it. The horse is like shaking in the corner because it was so nauseous or whatnot. So I was... I think for me, instead of like minimizing the dog as just a dog, but it is a dog, but a dog has a soul and I can communicate and let the dog know what's happening.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And if I do that, I actually find that the dog can actually, I say, dog, I don't like it when you jump on me. It's not my love language. So if you could sit patiently, I will pet you all you want to. Just don't jump on me. And the dog has actually gotten much better with just sort of being like, all right, that's not SKB's love language.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yeah. Or even just saying like, hey, man, I'm about to be gone for four hours. Mom may be home a little bit sooner than I am. So you're going to be on your own. Please stay out of the guest bedroom. You make the bed stink when you jump on the bed. I'm trying. I'm trying to figure it out. And it actually- It does help. It does help. So yeah, thank you for redirecting me on that one.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That's the thing about stories like this. They make you reflect on where you've been, what you've healed from, or what you're still figuring out.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists, and you can switch anytime. So you can find someone who really gets you.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
So Kev and Randall are looking for their sister. They come close to finding her a couple of times. They're trailing her just behind the ice cream shop. They decide to have the ice cream. It's pretty damn tasty. Yeah. Then as they're driving to find her, I think this is like one of the last practical things of us actually driving the car.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Because you can tell when we're driving the car versus when you're in that soundstage. And they sort of play worst case scenario. And they start to feel really bad about like, yo, did we drop the ball? Right? They recognize that Kate is a sensitive soul. And I think it's a very easy thing to do because both Justin and Sterling and everybody here recognize that Chrissy is a sensitive soul.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
So it's like when the actor and the character sort of line up in that way, it's like, you know what, like this person needs special attention and maybe we didn't give them the attention that they needed.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It really did. Yeah. And then we flash and we see her having this conversation with the urn and saying that she needs to create space so that she can let Toby in or whatnot. And the brothers wound up giving her the space to do that. Yeah. Right? And they say, like, you know, maybe we're not bad brothers. Sort of giving themselves pats on the back for the work that this woman just did for herself.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And they go back to... to the house right now important to say madison is gold in this episode on point she shows up doing madison perfectly perfect yeah there's a few things that get said uh when like the the brothers come in they hand the ladies champagne And she wants to go help them find Kate. And we're like, nah, you know what? That's really cool, but we got this.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
She flirts with Kevin, right? And I'm sure, I don't think Diana ever in a million years planned for this thing to happen, right? Because even in it, she's like, please don't let me sleep with her. I was like, gotcha. Like this is one of the last things Kevin says as we're leaving there.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And then they wound up having babies together. Spoiler alert. Not that night. Not that night. Yeah. But later on, they wound up having babies together. Let's do another character is introduced here.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Oh, bro. When it comes to that guest list, yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yeah. She's like, I know what you're doing. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I love the little girl. But she's saying that like, you know, when people, I got left with Beth's mom and dad and her, and I know that I probably took a lot out on all of them by the frustration of just being left. Right. You know what I'm saying? And she was able to make a connection because we didn't think that she was going to change out of her hoodie to go to the thing.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And she's guarding the door is Zoe. And... Lyric comes out, Deja comes out and she's got a dress on and she's ready to go to the thing.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It was a light bulb moment for sure. Yeah. We go to, we're constantly flashing in and out of the wedding renewal vows, the dream, if you will. I got a chance to pretend to play the piano while you sang Little Moonshadow.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
No, you weren't because she makes mention that anytime she has the dream about her mom and dad, Toby isn't in it, and what does that mean?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Oh, yeah, because that would have been a... Listen, we can count on one hand how many times it happened. So Justin, in his episode, got his dad coming in with the football coach, right? We have the trip. in season one, we have this dream sequence. And I think later on when Randall starts to imagine his life, if he had not met William or whatnot, there's a Jack sighting.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That's about, I think it's four times with the adults over the course of 106 episodes of television. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. Yeah. It was cool. It's cool for him. I think it was really cool for Milo. Cause I think he always wanted to be, know what was going on because he'd always show up with his camera whenever he could or whatnot.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Let me also say, he looked way better than old-ass Randall. Everybody looked better than old-ass Randall. Let me tell you something, old Randall was having a time for sure.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
God bless you. He got better. He got better. Maybe he was just dehydrated that day. Maybe that's what it was.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
How close were these two weddings together?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Toby confronts his parents' doubts about his marriage, and Kevin, Randall, and Rebecca try to give Kate the perfect wedding she deserves. Mandy, Chris, how are you? Sterling. Sterling. What's going on, fellas? Everybody?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Even when you showed up, she was going out the door to find the ice cream. You didn't know that. You thought that you had said something that caused her. Sure, sure.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
But God blessed you for on that day really thinking about your daughter. You're like, I just want this day to go well for her. So if I need to take a step back, I don't know if every mom is like that on wedding day.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
There is, okay, so she does, she's able to make peace, is Kate, and make space for her husband, right? And at a certain point, we wind up walking down the aisle. Oh, excuse me. there's the conversation that you have with your parents when they are sort of like, have their reservations, et cetera.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And brilliantly, like, let me say, putting on- Cufflinks. Pain in the ass. Yeah. Always a pain in the ass. And it's like, you want to dismiss them, but like, please just fix the cufflink first. Standing at the end of the aisle.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Standing at the aisle and about to see your bride walk down, being given away by her two brothers. And just a quick, let me just take a pause. I want to see what Taylor's reaction, Chris Sterling. When I saw my wife walk down that aisle... She's so, because I didn't see her before. Like we obeyed all the rules and everything like that. And what a joy, what a reveal. Just so, what a moment.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Like, did you have a similar- I was a mess.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
So you get to do the other half. You get to do the walk and whatnot. What's it like getting ready to prep to walk to see? Taylor cried. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yeah, he cried. And what's it like for you walking down and seeing everybody and they stand up and they turn around and da, da, da, da.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It is. You know what? My mom got married at City Hall twice and she's like, I don't know why y'all need all this stuff. And I was like, but, and for those who get married at City Hall, cool. It got memories, you know, that memory, that, that photo album, like that video of like watch every once in a while, you break it out and you look and you're like, wow, what a great day.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It's cool, it's cool. So it was cool to see Justin and I in our little matching suits. Walking with your sister. I think a side note, Chrissy said her dress is about 40 pounds. I remember that.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
She said, SKB, touch it. And it was heavy. Heavy. That joint had some weight to it, right?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
So the wedding's beautiful. It's montage. Did we have lines? No. We didn't have lines.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And let it be known, Zoe says to Deja, she's like, I'm only here for the toast. I'm always a sucker for a good toast, right? Yeah. So Kev does the toast, or he does the first part of the toast or whatever. I don't know if we can use this on the show, but I remember this was like- Uh-oh. There was a moment on set of like creative disagreement. Oh, I remember this! Hot take.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Should we talk about it? We can talk about it. We won't go into it deeply, but like it was, and it was over a small thing.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yes. And the director. And the director. And the director. And we already announced who they are. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Nobody's rewinding. It's easy to Google. And it was only over, I was like, I feel like I should be standing next to Kev when he does the toast because it's like a co-toast thing. And they were like, no, Kev does it and then you do it. And I was like, ah, that feels sort of strange or whatnot. And so something happened. Ultimately, I stood with my family.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Kev does the first half of the toast, which is absolutely beautiful. He does a Katie girl reference, which I'm always- A fan of. Always a fan of because, you know, I don't think Katie girl was in the original script. It was just something Milo said, right? And it just becomes now a part of the lexicon of referring to our sister. And what a wonderful guy she has found in you.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Always. Then we get to Randall on his, and then there's a montage that sort of begins under Randall's speech. Because he's talking about like the closest you come to, he's talking about picking your people.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
They're on a plane. She's laying her head on his shoulder. He's looking at a photo that we've seen before. Yes. From his uncle. From Vietnam. From Vietnam. That's right.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I think, were you still sick on this? Because you could have used it.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
We had two. We sort of eloped in the back of a friend's house, two dear friends of ours from undergrad who married each other, just so we've known each other since we were freshmen. They had a lovely ceremony for us, and then we went to the Montecito Inn for a quick little getaway, and then I tested for a pilot. I think I tested for numbers. Oh. That's how long ago I got married. Wow.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
He was gone. Yeah. And that's how we see Toby laying in bed with his concerned wife standing over. Was she just walking into the bedroom?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Right, and this is after, listen, because the parents have already set up you know, how low he got after the first marriage. So we're wondering like, what's going on with Toby?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
What we were asking Dan about in his episode is like, do you need that added hook in order to make sure people stay tuned? And he said, you know, I don't know if they need it, but it sure does help, right? And so like, once you answer in 2.14, we've answered the story of how Jack passed away and whatnot. And we end the season being like, what's going on with Toby? Kevin and Zoe.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And then like you see old Randall again with older Tess being like, it's time to go see her now. I'm not sure I'm ready. And so there's more questions. Intrigue, yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Sure. And he would drop the mic and left. I mean, especially when you're coming to the end of the season and there's that hiatus, like it's nice to know, like you have people come up to you during the hiatus being like, okay, what's going on? So who? What is this future thing? Who are you guys going to go see?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Like you could see that they were like, like chomping at the bit, waiting to find out what was going to happen next.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Come on now. Oh, this was what set her off.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Wendy Malek, my mom, doesn't know the whole situation. Yeah, you must be Randall's girls or whatnot, and you two look just like your mother, but you, you look just like your dad, right? And she was just, you could see something. This little girl is so deep. She's just like... This ain't my people. Like, you know what I'm saying? It was just like, I'm not supposed to be here.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I was just with my mother, you know? And like, because language escapes, the only thing that you have that you know what to speak with is taking the bat To my baby. And let us remind, because Kev reminded everybody, I know this is your car. You paid for cash.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I was like, this car is very important to me. And she just took it, went to the windshield and busted that joint up. And I'm telling, like watching it, I felt for Rad. I was like, okay. It was a twofold feeling. I was like, I felt for the car and I was like, what's going on with this little girl? You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know if she's in the future.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I've only seen Tess in the future. You know what I'm saying? And there was a part of me that's like, you can't let this little girl be left again. Like I felt very like, because I was like, if he did have that, which I don't think is Randall's nature per se, but like as an audience member, I was like- But where does she end up?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And I had tested for like four characters and didn't get them. Come on. But it was cool. How pissed is numbers?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was that. It was a good episode of television.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It was a good season. That's right. Of television. End of season two, y'all. End of season two. We're already there. Into Three will be when next you see us and lots of just wonderful things. Three is actually one of my favorite seasons. I agree. Is it really?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It is like on a personal level to see what Randall and Beth went through in that particular season, I thought was very fun as an actor.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It's really just an excuse to hang out with you guys and talk about a show that I love.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
We couldn't figure out one part for Sterling Brown. But it was lovely. And then as you guys know, I think it was 14 months before we had the larger ceremony or whatnot. But the 14 months in between, my wife gave me a mandate not to tell anybody.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yeah, it's been a minute. Let's do it. Let's do it.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Should we listen to the- We gotta listen to it. Voicemail first? Because I thought I was host three.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It's ringing. All right. Is this Elisa?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Well, also, a happy belated birthday to you.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Yeah, I think that was Ryan's biggest concern was that, you know, her family would not have been a part of the whole ceremony, et cetera. And so we had about a hundred at, and it was at the back of her parents' home, her parents' 14,000 square foot home, right? That overlooks like this reservoir. And it was really beautiful and pretty, and it was a great party.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It is the first time. I've heard that term, the This Is Us year. It's hysterical.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Is it interesting? Like, do you rewatch the show now with the podcast? And is it any different from the first time watching when you weren't a parent to watching it as a parent?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And I remember as the groom, I remember because her parents had people that they wanted to invite. And there was a certain number that I had to sort of trim back my list, thinking that the fellas would understand. I can't tell you how many dudes would be like, hey man, How come I didn't get to come to the wedding? And I was like, yo, bro, honestly, that's on me. I'm sorry.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Do you get six This Is Us years? Because that's- Yes. Like we went from 36 to 42. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
This is my second TIU year. I call the Jesus years 30 to 33. Yeah, that's right. Because that's when he was in his ministry. So I was like, yeah, the This Is Us years. Yeah, this is the This Is Us.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That's some foresight right there, sister. Instead of waiting until it's too late and being like, I wish I had.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I was trying to accommodate all these other sort of things. But I didn't think the wedding is a thing. I thought dudes would be kind of like, oh, no big deal. I'll go watch the game. They're like, hey man.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I just found out in this moment that Elisa, Mandy, and Chris are better people than me.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It's never too late. I appreciate that. And we appreciate your message. We appreciate you listening to the show, vibing with the show, rewatching it with us because we're rewatching it as we go into it. And just all the support, all the love.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Thank you, Elisa, for your time. We appreciate you. And you have a wonderful rest of the day.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I love that. I loved her. I love Elisa.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
We'll try to keep it, you know, be nice if you want to. Don't come hard at us with just like why you hate the podcast. You can just keep it.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That was it for this episode of That Was Us. Thank you guys so much for checking us out. We'll catch you next week. Later. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I'm at this place now where I look forward to them because there's not as many to look forward to. Sure. Do you know what I'm saying? We're at an age now where it's either happened or hasn't happened or whatnot. Now I actually look forward to young people. Like I had an assistant for four years, Haley Garrison, who I absolutely adore. Like I want to go to her wedding. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
I want to see how that plays out. I'm excited for it.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It is really true. I mean, there's so much. I remember Rye. I was wondering, I was like, are you having fun? Because she has in her mind exactly how she wants it to go. And if it doesn't go. And inevitably, it never goes exactly the way that you want it to go. And I think I was like, everybody else was having the greatest time.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
She had her ode to her first Thanksgiving, and then we'll get into the episode. So she wanted this outdoor long table where everybody sat down. And it was like- Family table. It was like 50 on a side.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Table going all the way down, family style. We got up to dance our first dance to Donny Hathaway's, Love, Love, Love. And as we're dancing and I'm dipping her, I think God shed a tear or two. and it deluged, gang. Not a sprinkle, deluged. Everybody had the, the caterers were like clearing the table, doing all this because the house is 14,000 square feet.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Like we were able to go into like the downstairs of the house and everybody was cool. The waiters and stuff started hanging out, played some, and it became a house party. And it was great.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Great story. It was great. I don't know, thinks, if it was great. Sure, sure, sure. But everybody had a wonderful night.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
She has a very short haircut. She does. It's all shaved on the side.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
That's on brand. I dig it. Okay, so we're talking about their wedding and whatnot. But the whole episode starts off with a wedding. but it's not the wedding. Oh, this is interesting. So you know what? I watched this episode with my son, with my youngest son, Amari, who's nine, and he's watching it, and he's seeing Jack in this wedding.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And he's watched a couple episodes with me before, and he goes, wait a minute. Is this real?" And I said, I think it's a dream, buddy. He goes, "'Cause your dad, he..." Like, it took him a second to be like, he's not supposed to be there. I was like, no, he's not supposed to be there. So she's imagining what it would be like, right?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
Gang, we're at the end... Of season two. Of season two.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
You're in control. You decide when to host, who stays, and how you want to set up your space. Airbnb makes it easy so you can focus on your next adventure while your home becomes part of someone else's story.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
You are... Wait, come on. You guys have to help me out. I think rounds are struggling a little bit.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
This is... You know, we take some breaks or whatever to go do little TV shows, have some babies, all this kind of stuff. But we're already at the end of season two. Flying. It's moving. Putting it on record.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
It was fun. Yeah. It was a lot of fun to do. And then we see, um, Randall is getting ready at the house still, getting the bags together, but they're having a little bit of an issue with Deja. Deja's back in the house. Yes. Her mom has left, right? And now I think there's some sort of announcement that like all... Parental rights have been- Parental rights have been transferred to us, right?
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing season two, episode 18, The Wedding. As Kate prepares to marry Toby, she struggles with the absence of Jack and embarks on a journey to find closure. Meanwhile, Randall and Beth navigate days of shifting attitude.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
And she's not super happy. She's a little moody about things. Doesn't necessarily want to go to this. She talked about how stupid the cabin is, et cetera, et cetera. But we're just trying to figure out like how to keep things-
That Was Us
Kate and Toby Get Married | "The Wedding" (S2E18)
A third of the way through. And we keep coming up with special episodes for guests just to do stuff. And we're still... A third of the way through. That's right. And at the end of this episode, something really beautiful happens. We finally get a chance to make Katobi official. That's right. They're coming together. It's Kate and Toby's time, where they decide to get married. At the family cabin.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And I hadn't watched it since I saw it that first time six, seven years ago, however long that was. The fact that he doesn't get the recognition and the accolades for the work that he did on this show just blows my mind.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Well, they basically, Rebecca and Kate see that this is, you know, somewhat catastrophic. He's not getting up on the field. And the next time we see them, they're all at the hospital. Jack and Randall have come home from their college trip. And Rebecca tells them that they're doing an MRI on his knee and it's not looking good. Yeah.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And basically you see Rebecca and Jack then out in the hallway talking to the doctor and him obviously telling them the news. Yeah. That, you know, this is not what they... His life is not going to go the way he thinks it's going to go. Yeah, his life is forever changed. Right. Jack then goes into the hospital room to see Kev and... And Kevin's basically expecting him to say, like, what?
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
The playoffs, like, are off the table now. Like, what do I have to sort of wrap my head around in terms... Like, they don't know me. They don't know how strong I am. I'm going to get back up. I'm going to defy the odds. I'll be back out on the football field, what, in a couple games or something? And Jack has to break the news to him that...
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
You know, I get emotional thinking about it, but it's just sort of like the life that you expected, right? Yeah. Like he was going to go to some incredible school on a full ride. Yeah. Starting quarterback, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. his life now has been forever changed.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And Jack has to tell him like, I know you thought it was gonna go one way, but I know in my bones that you are meant to do something else incredible. Like you have other, exactly. You have other purpose in this life.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And a side note, there's a little song by a sweet Taylor Goldsmith, a cover of a Jackson Browne song these days. I was like, Taylor and I were watching it the other day and I was like, it's you. He's like, oh yeah. Like he totally forgot that Ken had actually asked him if he would record a cover of this song for this episode. And both of us had forgotten until the song started.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Also, as we're talking about the music in this episode, this is one of the pieces of Sid's score beyond the painting that I remember left a real mark on me. I love this. Like, if you can go on to... Wherever you stream your music and you can listen to, I think, I believe like all six seasons of Sid's score of the show. But this is number one, the theme for number one. And it's just beautiful.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
There's something about it that like, again, immediately transports me back to this time, this series of episodes, because it plays throughout. It plays throughout Kate's episode and Randall's episode. But it's a really, really beautiful reoccurring theme. And I just shout out to Sid.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
This is where the tears started for me in this episode.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Oh yeah, the owner's like, what are you doing staring at my home?
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And a shout out to this directorial choice too. I love this music cue and this slow, truly, it's like I think about it when I think about the show. I love the slow motion. You start on Kevin and then you go around the hallway and you end up on Logan's face and just- The man.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
The juxtaposition of him reliving his high school years when he was on top of the world, juxtaposed with where he is now, coming back to his high school. It's, again, chef's kiss. I just, I love it.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And the interesting thing is, in the... The present past, the more present past, I guess, when the big three are teenagers, when they're not little, little kids, which is sort of the two timelines that we're living in in these particular episodes, right? The teen years, right before Jack passes away, or we come to realize later on, before Jack passes away, and then the present day.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
The audience is right to celebrate him and to be excited by him and the work he's given them.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
We shot all of these episodes, sort of block shot them in a way, meaning that like, we had to figure out, we kind of shot these particular scenes that we see from these different perspectives in any given episode, whether it was Kevin's perspective or Randall's perspective or Kate's perspective. We kind of shot all of these scenes at the same time.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Just kind of, you see, maybe like if Kate goes into the kitchen, we follow Kate into the kitchen in her episode. Whereas in Kevin's episode, we would have stayed with Kevin wherever he was in the scene.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Any other version of you, yeah. It's hard to imagine any other version.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
It was like we, I believe Ken directed all three of these episodes, right? Which, much to his chagrin, I just remember. This is when he cracked. This is when we broke Ken Orland.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
on top of being a part of something that is taking you on this crazy stratospheric ride, right?
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
I think you're right. There is a real correlation between him going crazy on Twitter and doing these three episodes all at once. But yes, there was a lot of choreographing how these scenes were going to be blocked and how they looked because we kind of shot these different perspectives all at the same time.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
On the lawn, just completely crumbled as a human. I don't think we ever see Kevin like this ever again.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Well, it ends with, right? With the flashback of the kids.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Shout out to Justin, to Ken, to Yasu, to everybody.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
She wrote in because she had a real connection to Kevin's storyline, especially as it relates to his journey with addiction.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Dear Mandy, Sterling, and Chris, I joined the This Is Us fan base a little late, starting in 2018 during season three. After getting hooked, I quickly binged the first two seasons to catch up because I didn't want to miss out on what all my friends were talking about. There were so many storylines and characters that resonated with me deeply, but I'll highlight a few that left a lasting impact.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Growing up, my dad struggled with alcoholism, much like Jack and his father. So that storyline hit home. Kevin's journey with addiction was especially profound for me. At the time, I was recovering from an addiction to painkillers, codeine, which my doctor prescribed for migraines. But it wasn't long before I started taking them not just for the physical pain,
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
but to numb some emotional pain as well. I had just left a toxic relationship, was living alone, and was a busy career woman with no children, but caring for plenty of fur kids, my pets, who were relying on me. I knew I had to pull myself out of the dark place, so I weaned off the painkillers over several months without rehab or even letting anyone close to me know what I was going through.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
The withdrawal symptoms were brutal. Insomnia, all over pain, nighttime leg tremors, and restlessness.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Lori, we mirror that immense gratitude back to you.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Yeah, they don't want to see you do it alone either.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Or you can leave us a message on our emotional support hotline. It's 412-501-3028. We would love to hear from you.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Thanks, friends. Welcome back to our Retread segment. Retread is brought to you by Peloton. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton. On this episode of the podcast, we gave Justin Hartley his flowers.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
We also heard from Sully and your own personal experience and being so incredibly vulnerable, pouring out your soul, burying your soul.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
I'm pretty great. Yeah. I'm happy to be discussing this episode in particular. I've been waiting.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Remember Justin in number one, the first time we did it, 208. Was that a real beard when he's sort of like on a bender the entire episode?
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
But it's not. It's from his high school. From his high school alumni association. Right.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Yeah, just checking in to make sure you're all set for tomorrow, for your speech, to come to this ceremony where we're honoring you, we're giving you an award.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And by the way, that room, I was like, wow, he is messy. He's a messy man.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Yes, absolutely. Even though it jumps around, it jumps back and forth.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
Seems like the nicest guy in the whole world. He's very interested in Kevin. Very interested.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
The creeping dread of like, aye. he wouldn't want to be Jack's child when you make Jack Pearson angry.
That Was Us
Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
And Sterling, before you arrived yesterday, Chris, Sterling and I sent a little video to Justin because we just had to let him know. Gotta let him know. We had to give him his flowers. We had to just tell him how much we missed him, how much we appreciate him, how mind-blowingly good he was in this episode. It is just like, again, re-watching it, it took me back to seeing it for the first time.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
It was not blind evil. It allowed you to live with Rebecca, who sees it and is like, incorrect. by my mother, I love you. Right. Like, because you are my mother, but also all of this is wrong.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Bug slipped into Rachel. She calls them bug.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
He gets sick, leaving her even more alone.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Well, that's the next morning. That's the next morning. The night before she goes and says, when the snow's gone, I need you to be gone. Yeah. She's like... Get it.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
And this is when Randall overhears, right?
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
You talked about... You talked about your housekeeper.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
But the look on your face when you turn around and see Randall standing there was so, you went through 17 emotions in like a second and a half.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Yeah, I've been traveling a lot, actually, back and forth to Toronto for this new gig, and I'm checking out the entire city with Airbnb. I get a different apartment every time I go in a different part of the city.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Mandy, nobody knows Toronto better than I do.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
You'll have to be our tour guide next time.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
i have been using airbnb for years and it's become my go-to for finding places that feel like home no matter where i am in the world it's also a wonderful way to share my own space with travelers offering them the comfort of a home away from home we've done so many renovations on our house i've been thinking these renovations are too good i have to share them with the world hosting just makes sense come on and it might be for you as well yes
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
I laughed this morning. I was trying to wake the house up. Grandma shot him, okay? Yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Nowadays on set, we have things that are actually mandated called intimacy coordinators, where when scenes are, it's usually physical intimacy. And I don't think we had this back then, but I imagine if a scene like this happened today on set, that that coordinator would probably be brought in.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Yo! How many strikes in a row? Eight strikes in a row.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
1230 in the morning a hook or no hook straight ahead man Hard, I bowl hard and fast. The way I do most things.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
That was a 16. That was a 16, strong. Anyways, I digress.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
First Beth goes through her physical things, and now Randall has accidentally gone through her emotional things.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
I was like, I felt like I messed up really bad.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
She's in the pharmacy looking at diet pills or in the diet aisle or so we think.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
I was like, this is four episodes into season two? Yeah. What happens in the last four seasons of this show? Yeah. I don't remember.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
And one of the things we forgot to mention in the last episode that Ron Howard says to Kevin, he's talking about Kevin's character in this film he's shooting. He's talking about his relationship to Sylvester Stallone.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
And Ron Howard says to him, he's like a father to you, and he's going to die on your watch if you don't save him.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
So as Kevin is recovering, he is trying to get back into this movie to metaphorically save this father figure to him. And they get some page corrections and they've taken one of his lines, which is him saying like three words, I got you. Yeah. I got you.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
And that's, you mentioned it earlier in this episode about the things, the way we talk to our children and the way, it's not what is said, but it's the way they latch on to what we say, right?
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Because the point, Kevin is tough. Yeah. Kevin is strong, Kevin is capable, but that's not why your dad loves you. Right, well said. You know what I mean? And you can tell the difference between what he's going through.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
He's just been rewarded for being tough. Totally.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Should we check in with the emotional support hotline before we go? I think we should.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Right after these messages. More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
I'm with you, Sterling. I've already had these tile trackers. I've been a fan of tile trackers for a long time. I have one on every single car key that we have. I've got one in my wallet. I've got one in my travel suitcase. I've started sticking them in diapers just to keep track of those kiddos. Sometimes you don't want to lose a kid. That's right. They leave the room.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
You hit the little alert button. You listen for the tone. They're in the other room. Good on you, big dog.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Tile won't tip thieves off to your location, so that's a bonus. And it also has an SOS tracker if you need to alert family members if you need help. Boom. So whether you're tracking your keys, wallet, or something else important, just ring your Tile and use your Life360 map to find it in no time. And keep tabs on your loved ones, too.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
This is really one of our favorite things to do. All right, so let's see who we are talking to today. We are going to talk to Brittany. But first, we are going to listen to the voicemail she left us.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
We will call her back. Hello? Brittany.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Yeah, this emotional support hotline is actually for us. We thought it was for our fans, but it's actually for us.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
You're a saint. Can you tell us a little bit more about that actually?
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
my my wife and i have actually talked about it i mean mostly because of the show like that's an interesting idea is that something we would ever be interested in will you tell us more about your work with with the foster care system and i i guess i'm i don't know if i'm asking you for a commercial for the foster care system but tell us seriously tell tell us how people
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
If they've ever had an interest, can help, can be of support, can... I have plenty to share. What you're looking for for these kids. Okay.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Brittany, thank you so much for calling and leaving that message.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
have a good day thank you for your message yeah have a wonderful day bye bye it's britney that was incredible gracious yeah if you if you want to call and leave us a message on the emotional our emotional support hotline yes yes yes the number is 412 that's correct 501 also correct 3028 if you want to give us a ring maybe we'll give you a ring back
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
You can also send us an email at thatwasuspod at gmail.com.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Wow. Because I'm an Aries. Because you want to win. Yeah. Did you have a go-to movie you used to get over and over again?
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Oh, it was still part of the game for you? Still part of the game.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
And I'm going to beat him. You're like, let's go play with basketball. Yeah. So got you there. No, right now. Let's go play a game of basketball.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
I used to watch Beetlejuice over and over and over and over again.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
The dude playing copy, his copy of a copy.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Not my cup of tea, but okay. I can play that off.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Oh, Donald Glover? Yes. Yeah, blow up my spot. Blow up my spot, Sterling. Yes. Everybody has a celebrity crush.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
And I printed it up and I put it in a picture frame. And I hung it above my bed at home.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
My current one, I don't even know. I don't even know. I think there's the actress from the first season of, what's the hotel movie? The hotel TV show.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Let's get back to the show. Sorry. Sorry. I digress. This is going to be the most interesting part.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Yeah. And he's sort of like, what? You people are crazy.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Chicken pox? Yeah. Yeah, me too. Everybody had chicken pox.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
I mean, I think there's some perfectly imperfect purpose behind that kind of tension between mothers and daughters, sons and fathers, sons and mothers, all the different combinations that is important. that allows you to put some distance between you and this person who for the longest time you thought was the moon, the sun, the stars. Is this a leaving and cleaving sort of thing? On a pedestal.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
Yeah, leaving your father's house, whatever the metaphor is to putting some arm's length between, okay, what I was told that I think, and what I actually think. Like challenging all of those things to come up with your own values, your own belief system. And some stick and some do belong to you. And there are other things just like, that's not for me. That's not how I'm, yeah.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
It's a Little Mermaid dress that's too small. That's too small.
That Was Us
Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
We'll just let that lay there for a second.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
But this is also what we get into in this episode. I don't know if we want to jump, jump that far into the family therapy session about what gets discussed, but it's like, there's a difference between, you know, like the nutritionist that we see has this one bite rule. Hey, you have one bite of whatever you want. Yeah. You have a craving? Taste it. Great. Leave it alone.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And that's fine for some people. Sure. But some people can't pick up. Once you pop. Yeah, once you pop, you can't stop. That goes for sugar. That goes for alcohol. It's like saying to an alcoholic, just have a sip. Right. And then leave it alone. Right. You know, and anybody who drinks a lot would say, what do you mean you have a beer and you go to bed? Right. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
They come in packs of six. For a reason. Come on now. You know what I mean? I do. And so this is then the discussion about especially and why childhood obesity is such a delicate topic because we attach... the things that we consume, whether it's food or whatever it is to change our physical being. And it gets attached to our emotional state or it can get imprinted, it can get encoded.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And we start to go to those things to, they start out as survival mechanisms, then they turn into coping mechanisms. And then before you've realized it, it's just a part of your personality and you can't untangle them. Yeah. Yeah.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yeah, right now, Bear really loves the melon and the lemon, and Aoife goes like straight strawberry, like hard strawberry.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
So whether you're thinking of opening your home to someone looking for a peaceful retreat, a family getaway, or a special memory in the making, hosting an Airbnb is a way to make your space a part of their story. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And not to assume what someone else is going through, but to be attached to a storyline that is based on your appearance. Yeah. It's like, regardless of whether or not this is an imaginary character. Sure. you're still a person who's like having to be put in this position. And that's rough. That's rough.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Go for it. In my estimation of the format, he does his best to go around the room and he kind of gives a half-hearted,
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
There's something about seeing it on the shelf, grabbing a bottle and tossing it in your cart next to the stuff you didn't even mean to buy.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
apology yeah that is that is meant to be uh part of his amends process sure it was like placating everybody yeah i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry and it was real like yeah sorry about that again i'm sorry and also i'm sorry and then he turns to his therapist like that felt good i felt good
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
It's the great American tragedy. I mean, it's every play about the American family that's ever been written. It's like, and today's the day. that the family deals with 30 years of things they haven't talked about.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Oh, oh, oh. Oh, Zach. 100%. 100%. Yeah. That does not necessarily free that from informing the way that we live our lives. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And I've concluded my statement. It was like you were at a Senate hearing.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Truths, right? Truths that need to be- Aired. Exorcised.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
especially when they they're that deep for that long yeah and that's the power and honestly as as messy and maybe in a maybe inappropriate maybe inaccurate the the the benefit of therapy sure and this situation that they're in is you need context to talk about this stuff here's your context yeah therapy yeah you know what i mean and like the idea of like
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
when was I gonna talk to my kids about him being an alcoholic? At what point, when do you do that? Like what do you, which is such an interesting correlation. They lost their father. Yeah, yeah. Two weeks after he dies? No, by the way, let's not forget, he had a drinking problem.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Like he's never... there's quote unquote, never a good time. And it's an interesting correlation with our show that gives people who watch it, as we have talked about with our friends, the context to talk about these things. Just by watching the show. Because there will come a day where I'll have to talk to Bear and Aoife about, my difficulty with drinking. You know what I mean?
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Just so you know, this has been in my past or this has been, I've had problems with this. So maybe we should kind of look out for that. But who knows when or how.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
The three of us, you know, obviously the three of us didn't hold similar resentments that the characters might hold, but it was a fun day to be like, scenes for us? Scenes for the three of us. And we had a good time in that bar. Yeah, you did. For that day, that afternoon. It looked awesome. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
It took a minute. There is the thing of like, you start to get familiar and maybe Rachel says something and I start to like come in. I'm like, oh, it's just you venting? Okay, you just vent. You just go, you go ahead. Totally.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
I like, though, calling, since we work in the industry, calling our past the background.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yeah. Because he also says at one point in the way that like, I think maybe you saw it too. You see a little bit of John Horst. He goes, now you're entering my no flex zone. And it was just that slightly overly dramatic character that he likes to play. Because he's talking about my best friend. You know what I mean? It's so good.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yeah. So no one's talking about this. Maybe this happened. Maybe we're going to see a flashback of them talking about this. Yeah.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
When was the last time you actually thought about your metabolism?
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
It's called Lumen. Lumen is the first device that actually measures your metabolism in real time by analyzing your breath. You breathe into it, and it tells you whether you're burning carbs or fat. And the goal? The goal is optimizing your metabolism so you feel energized, you sleep better, and manage your weight more effectively.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
That's right. That's right. Number one on my call sheet.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Ooh, I love a gadget and I love the Lumen. I plugged it in immediately, got it all charged up, synced it with the app and started checking out the metabolism data. I love data because the data helps me kind of stay mindful about my diet or about my exercise or about the routine of my day. Take the next step to improving your health. Go to lumen.me slash thatwasus to get 20% off your Lumen.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
That's L-U-M-E-N dot me slash thatwasus for 20% off your purchase. Thank you, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
It's ego and resentment. And it gets in the way of amending anything. And the only thing that we can control, like we were talking about, is our perspective. You keep your side of the street clean and you don't worry about the other side of the street.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Our therapist... told us several times she's like every every child enters a completely different family yeah you know what i mean that's true like your first child enters with just these two parents and then two three however many it's it's a complete is as similar as it appears yeah it is a completely unique and different situation which is which is why this situation is so
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
specifically interesting, right? Because you have a set of twins and this third baby who all arrive at the same time. So you would just assume that their perspectives, that they're all witnessing the same things, they're all benefiting from the same things, they're all being injured in the same way, and it's just not the case. Couldn't be more different.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
It's so interesting. It's what we were talking about at the beginning of this episode of like, The joy is the time with your father. Yeah, yes. Not what you guys. But it gets hardwired to the thing.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
That you're associating. Right. Because I had the same every day on the way to school. Yeah. Stop at the coffee shop, two donuts and chocolate milk.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
you know, while my dad had a coffee and I played some video games. And it was like, and yeah, I mistook, you know, sometimes you mistake the serotonin for the sugar rush.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Did you guys have a parent, one or the other, who would do stuff like this without talking to the other parent? Not that it was not bad stuff, but it was like, oh, so that's just what's happening? Yeah.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
My dad would bring home strays. Would bring home dogs and cats.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And just be like, hey, this cat. Yeah, my dad's a sweetie for the animals.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And the process that he's going through, the thing that gets in the way of us appreciating those things, The thing that gets in the way of me appreciating those things and remembering those things is identifying too closely with my resentment and my anger for the things I didn't get, for the way I wasn't treated.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And the more I lean towards a clear mind, a clear heart, a focus on gratitude and things like that, all of these things flood back. It's like, oh, right. Oh, right. All of this story I've been telling myself about, I've been wronged or I've been mistreated is not all that true. The perspective that I thought was mine has actually been distorted by my lack of gratitude.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And you can see Kevin setting out on that, And that was when he said, I hope we did. He knows that you did.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
It's like plaque on the brain. He just can't get past all the hurt.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yeah. Which makes it seem not real. Yeah, like, did that really happen? That couldn't have happened.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yes. Did you have to go up there to get your makeup done?
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
I remember my- Did they put you up at Casamigos the night before?
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Our first Q&A with the fans went so well that we found some more. Round two. And we're here to answer them all.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Okay. There was one scene where our new baby had a dirty diaper and it was stinky and they made me carry the baby out in front of me. Like, oh, God. That was a real TV move. It was a real like, oh, look at this dad who can't handle a stinky diaper. That's not how it goes. But at the time, I was like, yeah, I guess this is what happens.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And then you just realize how disturbingly comfortable you become with poop.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Who cares? That was poop. Just a brown shirt. Just like a dookie brown shirt. Camilla asks, best song, music? Personally, I love To Build a Home and can't listen to it without at least a tear. We were just talking about this. Interesting. We were just talking about this song. I think it's featured in several episodes. It is. But there's a big episode coming up.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yeah, sometimes that song pops into my head, and even singing it to myself makes me emotional.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
As far as I can remember from conversations at the time, because I know some people didn't want to see it. Some people didn't want to see COVID on their TV because they were living it in their lives. But the show was such a clear reflection of the audience that it would have been more disruptive to just ignore it. Right. I agree.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And people, there were a lot of people who did want to see that reflected back to them. Yeah.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And I was like, what? I took a long look in the mirror. Yeah. And I said, what are you doing? You do not embarrass us. Now I am going to go outside and then I'm going to come back in.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Luckily, I think I had one scene in my episode. So it wasn't a big... They kind of made sure that we didn't have to... Yeah, do like real heavy lifting. You weren't directing like a Rebecca episode.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yes. And this is where we start our campaign. Let's begin now. Right here on this podcast.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Are you a Fantastic Four? Listen, we are not nerdy enough to know. I wish I was. I wish I knew more of the Marvel Universe. You know who you are. And then I would name that character and we'd start that campaign. But I bet our listeners know exactly who you should be.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
You know who Jean Grey is? She's an X-Man. She's an X-Man. An X-Man. An X-Woman. Yeah.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
So get on the interwebs, the WWWs. Go to Instagram.com. Yes. And get on there and start.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
My husband and I used to joke about it all the time while we were watching. And I chuckle every time I see William and Annie's room. I hope the three of you can unlock the great mystery. Now listen, apparently you don't understand the layout of brownstones.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
I love getting to know you. I'll just say that.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
You know what, listeners? What? You got us. You caught us. Fine, you happy? We'll tell Dan Fogelman.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
What are we talking about on this episode? Oh, my gosh.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
It's the same way I feel about doing every episode of this podcast. There you go.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
One of my favorite storylines. The point is, guys, check us out on YouTube.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
I wonder how often that happens in TV history where the audience gets to, I mean, that's a big. Yeah. That's a big effect. It is a big effect. It is a big effect.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Tandy. And it would be- It doesn't work, does it? Sterling? I kind of like Staffay. That's good. Staffay. Staffay is really good. What's yours? I mean, what? Rachel. I mean, Crachel? Crachel. Crachel. Rully. Crachel's good. Crachel. Crachel sounds like a snack. Crachel sounds like a really good donut. Or a type of cereal.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Or like a really healthy cereal on the other. Like, ugh. Crachel. Crachel. Why do you keep buying this?
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Got it. That was my interpretation. I didn't think you'd say that on NBC.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
be here in the first place she's like go let's get out of here as fast as we possibly can this was an instant regret of mine as this scene was unfolding i wish i wish i had played toby more disappointed that he didn't get to be part of the healing sure because she was so excited to not be and right actually so was miguel yeah yeah no could have been point count point and i really missed an opportunity there and i apologize to the viewers
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
You know, Sterling, bath time at my house used to feel like trying to get a cat into the water. I'd be out here making deals, bribing, you know, with more bedtime stories. You're negotiating like I was closing some kind of million-dollar deal just to get the kids into the tub.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
People, people loved that. Just so you're welcome for that.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Next thing you see, we're- He's trying to like make her play football. We're outside.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
i have no experience with it do you guys no i mean i i'm still working on it for myself yeah i i do know that rachel rachel and i there's a there's a new experience being new parents of finding what works yeah and continuing to do what works even after it stopped working Does that make sense to either of you? You get into a room and you're like, okay, good. So this is what you like to eat. Good.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
And then all of a sudden you're like, wait, I fed this child noodles with butter on it for 12 days in a row. I hear you. It's not working anymore. What do you mean you don't like noodles with butter? Right. Like my brain... gets into, like, a bit of a survival mode and forgets to, like, adjust, forgets to adapt. To be malleable, yeah. And so we've recently had to, like... Because it's a fun thing.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Bear comes home from school. He and Aoife get a little popsicle. And they sit on the front steps and eat their popsicles together. And it's the cutest thing ever. And we love it. And it turns them into nightmare demons. Okay.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Yes. They go... And it's like, and every time we do it.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
Every time they're doing the craziness, I'm like, you know what? Maybe we're just gonna have to stop having popsicles after school. And Rachel's like, you know, you say that every day. And we finally had to make the shift of like, okay, clearly this is too much for your brain at this stage of the day or development or whatever it is. And so, you know, obviously they are not autonomous.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
They don't decide what they eat. They get given things. So I don't know beyond that like how – I don't know how that goes once kids start going out into the world. Because Lord knows I was going out into the world as a young kid. I told you, I think we've already talked about it on this podcast, about my soda addiction.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
So before anything else, sugar was my thing. And I would pursue it like a junkie. In secret. Sugar's addictive. I would gamble for quarters at school. Just little games with quarters where it's like I flip my quarter and you flip your quarter. And if you match mine, you take mine. And if you don't match mine, I take yours. Just take a pocket of quarters of that soda machine.
That Was Us
Too Alone to Feel | "The Fifth Wheel" (S2E11)
100. 32-ounce cup at the cafeteria? Yeah. Three times. At least three of those a day. Now mind you, I was 6'4", 190 pounds. I was burning calories. I needed that much sugar just to stay awake for the amount of calories I was burning. But I don't know how you, like in these storylines with her, it's like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
I know. Yeah. Right? It almost sounds like it's been a long time. Bones on the Fox lot? Yes. Yeah. So they're like, we're just going to dye your hair and maybe just do a little zhuzhing of what we want your makeup to be. I was like, oh, okay. Okay, das klingt versprochen. Ja, das ist es. Vielleicht sehen sie etwas, aber ich hatte auch keine Kredite zu meinem Namen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Nichts, also sie sind so, hat sie noch etwas anderes, was wir sehen können? Nur Horrorgeschichten? Ja, ich habe einen Episode von einem Show gemacht, Ironisch gesagt, mit Chris Rocks Bruder Tony Rock. Ja, ja, ja. Und das war, ich meine, nichts. Und dann einfach wirklich, und natürlich Entourage mit James Cameron. Okay, okay, ja, okay. Es ist okay. Es ist okay.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich dachte, okay, meine Haare sind bereit, mein Make-up, ich weiß was. Okay, super. Dann gehen wir zum nächsten Chemischeree und Justin kommt rein. Und er hatte schon den Job, es wurde bereits erklärt, dass er Kevin spielen würde. Und diese andere Frau kommt rein. Ich erinnere mich nicht mehr auf ihre letzte Name, ich sage einfach nicht mehr ihre Name.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Sie war wunderschön und wunderschön und wunderschön und wunderschön und wunderschön und wunderschön und wunderschön und wunderschön und wunderschön Das ist cool. Und ich dachte so, Justin, wir machen ein kleines Gespräch. Und dann fielen alle Exekutiven in den Raum. Und manche sagen Hi, manche nicht. Und ich dachte, was bedeutet das? Was bedeutet das? Was bedeutet das? Was bedeutet das?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Hat er mich lieb? Hat er mich lieb? Was? Das ist so ein Prozess.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Das ist das, was die Leute nicht wissen. Du siehst die Zahlen, was es sein könnte.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja. Und besonders, wenn du auf dem Struggle-Bus bist, living with a friend, hast du Geld bezahlt, um sogar zur Audition zu gehen. All diese Dinge. Und ich bin so, okay, hier ist das Ding. Ich hatte nichts zu verlieren, weil ich nichts hatte. Da ist es. Also ich war so, es ist okay. Aber sie war so lieb. Und gerade als sie zuerst mit Justin zu lesen war,
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Sie sagt, ich möchte nur wissen, dass ich für dich gebeten habe.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich sagte, oh nein, nein, nein, nein. Oh nein, nein. Okay, danke.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja. Und sie geht rein und sie kommt raus. Und ich war so, sie ist so, okay, sie wollen, dass ich sitze und warte. Und ich war so, okay. Und sie sind so, Chrissy. Und sie rufen Justin und ich wieder rein. Und ich erinnere mich einfach, es war die Szene im Bad, wo sie gerade aus der Skala gefallen ist. Und sie ist so, mein Leben ist in Ruinen. Hilf mir. Und er ist so, lass uns Eis trinken.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Das sagt man immer. Es tut. Aber es tut nicht. Und ich gehe und wir lesen. Und ich war so, okay.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Aber ich bin auch nicht objektiv. Ich bin beschäftigt.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Sometimes it was just like, Chrissy, you just suit up and you show up. Und alles, was passieren wird, passiert.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich war auf der Art, jemandem zu warten, um zu sagen, wir lassen dich gehen. All die Zeit. Ich war so, oh Gott, was mache ich? Und dann, wie mit Glenn und John, haben sie eine Menge gedreht. Und du weißt, sie sind sehr blöd. Und ich liebe sie. Aber gleichzeitig bin ich so...
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
They didn't know? I literally received one of the red scripts and a part of, you know, time after time was in italics and I was like... Tell podcast listeners what a red script is. Es ist ein Geheimnis.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja. Also kann niemand es kopieren. Es ist ein Geheimnis. Und anyway, die Lyrics waren, ich meine, natürlich sind sie in Italics. Und ich war so, okay, aber bedeutet das, dass sie singen wird? Wie singt Kate? Und ich erinnere mich, dass Dan sagt, oh, wenn du dich nicht komfortabel singst, können wir einfach jemanden nennen. Und ich war so, nein, nein. Oh, kann ich versuchen?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und er meinte, ja, natürlich, wenn du willst. Könnte ich euch mit meiner Stimme wegwerfen?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Warte mal. Nein, aber gleichzeitig gab es auch Dinge, die sie mit der Musik tun würden, um es nicht so zu machen, dass es immer so klingt. Ich bin definitiv keine perfekte Pitch-Girl, überhaupt nicht. Aber sie haben definitiv Dinge gesteigert, um ihre Selbstvertrauen in ihre Musik zu verändern. Was natürlich mein Ego nicht liebte. Mein Ego, wow. So I was like, oh, it's okay. It's okay.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
But it was just so exciting and also so scary. So scary. Because it's not like you're just doing it once, right? You're doing it a bajillion times. And then we're in the retirement community with elders. And I will vividly remember this great audience. And I'm like, is this a choice or did she really fall asleep? hat dieser Hintergrund-Artist, habe ich sie zu Tod gebohrt?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es ist etwas, ja, aber ich erinnere mich einfach daran. Und es war so ein leckerer, süßer Moment mit, weißt du, Tobi, sogar mit ihrer Musik und ihrem Singen zu erneuern. Lass uns hier in der Verwaltungsgemeinschaft anfangen. Lecker, süß, psychotisch.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja, ja, ja. Aber ja, es war immer noch sehr aufregend, aber immer noch sehr beängstigend.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Like, it's weird to not see you guys. Even though, like, I see you, but I don't see you in the full life. So it's so nice, like, to hear your voices in the same room and your energies.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
It was a very big deal. I mean, you know, because of Tangled, but like, you're also like a recording artist since you're 15. So like, but was it so scary, nerve wracking?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
We're just going to shower you with all of the deserved compliments. I was like, is this episode going to be all about Kate?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich denke, seit einem langen Zeitpunkt war ich eine sehr schwere, angstige Teenagerin, weil ich eine sehr schmerzhafte Kindheit hatte. Und ich denke, dass es sich an einem Punkt verändert hat, wo ich dachte, ich kann nicht diese schwere, schmerzhafte Frau sein, die ich vielleicht wechseln sollte.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich fühle die Dinge, die ich vielleicht schon lange nicht gefühlt habe, oder ich ermutige mich sogar, sie zu fühlen. Also ja, ich meine, es ist seltsam und kompliziert, aber auch ich fühle Dinge sehr tief. Ja, das tust du. Es ist einfach nicht immer großartig. Es ist nicht immer großartig.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Wie viel Zeit haben wir? Eine Minute. Wir haben eine Minute. Ich gebe dir die Cliffs. Ich glaube, es ist einfach so, Du hast mir eine Textmeldung geschickt und ich konnte nicht mal zu dir antworten, weil ich ein Schwachsinn bin. Und du hast gesagt, oh, das war so eine tolle Erfahrung. Alles, was ich mich erinnern kann, ist, wie grün ich mich fühlte. Wie neu ich mich fühlte.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es ist einfach schrecklich. Es werden wundervolle Dinge gesagt und dann das eine, was negativ ist, ich bin dran.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Aber ich denke auch, dass ich... Das ist gut. Das bringt uns zu der Kompliment-Portion des Podcasts.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich denke, immer und immer wird es ebben und flöten. Weil ich denke, es hängt wirklich von dem Tag ab. Oder was jemand dir gesagt hätte. Oder etwas, was passiert, als du bereit bist, aufs Set zu gehen. Oder ein Telefonruf, den du bekommst. Oder wenn dein Team sagt, oh, wir dachten, du würdest nominiert werden. Ich bin so entschuldigt. Und du denkst...
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Jetzt managiere ich ihre Gefühle, weil ich okay bin. Und ich denke mir, oh Gott, es könnte alles sein. Aber ich erinnere mich daran, dass es eine Erweiterung war, dass ich mich aufstehen und aufstehen werde und dann wirklich herausgefunden habe, dass Vertrauen in dich ist.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und jedes Mal, wenn ich mich aufstehen und aufstehen würde, würde ich mich vertrauen, dass es nicht groß ist, aber du es durchgehst, bis du es durchgehst. Und dann denkst du dir, okay, ich fühle mich ein bisschen mehr vertraut. Aber gleichzeitig Ich versuchte, objektiv zu sein und zu sagen, oh, weißt du was? Ich wünschte wirklich, dass sie das andere Take benutzt hätten.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es ist ein kollaboratives Kunstwerk. Und du musst mit dem Direktor und dem Editor zusammenarbeiten. Und du denkst dir, verdammt, ich hätte einen besseren Take. Aber es ist immer noch so. In allem, was ich tue. Ich denke, es geht von Minute zu Minute für mich. Was liebst du von Kate spielen? Was war deine Lieblingsaktion von Kate spielen? Oh. Ich weiß, das ist eine schwierige Frage.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich denke, die Dualität von der schwersten Teil, die die beste Teil war, war, dass es endlich eine Frau auf TV gab, die versucht hat, eine vollständige Frau zu sein. Es ging nicht nur um Gewicht. Und jetzt, ich sage nicht, dass es mir ging, ich denke so viel über Dan und die Exekutiven, aber wir sehen Leute, die auf TV sind, die... Sie könnten aus allen Formen und Größen sein.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es gibt keine Geschichte darüber, ob es sich um die Form oder die Größe handelt. Oder um das Alter oder um die Race oder um den Status. Und ich dachte mir, Gott sei Dank. Es ist wie, wow, kannst du dir die Art imitieren? Aber das war auch das Schwierigste. Denn es fühlte sich so an, als wären alle Fragen immer über Gewicht. Und sie ist eine Frau, die versucht ist, mehr als nur ihr Gewicht zu sein.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und es hat so viel von ihrem Leben informiert. Und die Beziehung mit ihrer Mutter. Und dann war es auch wirklich wunderschön. Oh, nein. Die Zähne können kommen. Wir wissen, dass es passiert. Wie mein Großvater, Ruhe und Frieden, würde sagen. Sie ist so emotional, sie weint, wenn sie lacht. Also, was auch immer. That's a good one. Yeah, it's a great one, right?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich erinnere mich sehr stark an dich. Ich kann das nicht, Chris. Die Nacht, an der wir das Abendmahl-Party gemacht haben. Das war eine lange Nacht.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
So, um... Anywho, um... So... We're not saying she farts every time she cries.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Oh, where the tears were coming. Oh, right. Oh, about Jack. über Milo und mich selbst, die Geschichte mit Jack und Kate. Alle sagen, oh mein Gott, war es so großartig, mit Milo zu arbeiten? Und ich sage, ja. Und sie sagen, oh, hast du dich von deiner echten Leben ausgedrückt? Ich sage, nein.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Jack und Kates Beziehung heilte so viel von der Lack der Beziehung, die ich mit meinem eigenen Vater nicht hatte, dass, wenn diese Tränen kommen würden, waren es nicht Tränen von Freude, sondern es war wie... Oh, wie ein Rapport, wie eine Heilung. Weil ich das mit meinem Vater nicht hatte. Er war nicht da. Und um zu sehen, dass ein Vater seine Tochter wählt. Oh nein.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Was ich in der Therapie entdeckt habe, ist, dass mein Vater der erste war, der mich nicht wählte. Und um zu haben... Du weißt, dass wir das ohne mich weinen nicht durchkommen konnten. Dass Jack Kate in irgendeiner Art und Weise wählt, egal was. Und sie war immer die wichtigste Sache für ihn. Ich dachte mir, oh, das Universum weiß, was es tut. In allen Fällen, Formen und Formen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Meine Hüfte bluten. Sie bluten. Du blutest für Kunst.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es gibt so viele Dinge. Es ist schwer, nur zu wählen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und das gleiche ist mit unserer Beziehung, mit Rebekah und Kate's Beziehung. I remember vividly my mom wanting to take my younger sister, who we have different dads, so she's tall and thin, on school shopping. And clothes were always a big thing. And I always had to wear... Because there were no cute clothes for girls when I was in middle school, high school.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja, Episode 2 oder 3 oder so. Ja, das war in den frühen Tagen. Und in diesem tollen Haus. Und ich dachte mir, oh, ich glaube nicht, dass ich das machen kann. Ich habe so viel Ungewissheit darüber. Besonders, weil alle anderen auf dem Show so viel Erfahrung hatten, wie eine Liste von Krediten auf einem Resümee. Und wenn ich zurückkehre, denke ich mir, okay, das ist nicht okay.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
And when she sees the size of the shirt or... Und was so wunderschön war, war, dass ich mit deiner Perspektive gesehen habe, dass meine Mutter mich nur dafür wollte, dass ich gut und gesund und okay bin. Und nicht die Part, die ich... ob es schlecht oder falsch ist. Es ist so verrückt, weil ich verstehen kann.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und natürlich, nachdem meine Mutter einen Schmerz hatte, und auch bevor sie einen Schmerz hatte, hatten wir eine Gespräche, die wirklich um die Show zu heilen war. Wow. Es gibt so viele Dinge, die nicht nur ein TV-Show sind. Nein. Auch nach Fan-Reaktionen und Leuten, die uns ankommen, egal wo, wie und was. Manchmal im Kühlschrank. Ich weine mit Freunden im Kühlschrank. Nicht in der Toilette.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Waschen deine Hände. Nicht die Hand waschen. Wir sind sanitär. Es gibt so viele Dinge. Eben ein Mann, der Kate wirklich liebt, wie Tobi es tat. Oder Brüder, die für sie standen. My brother and I are estranged and I don't talk to him. It's really wild how you don't imagine how things are going to affect you.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es ist meistens so, dass auch Frauen, die ausländisch dünn sind, die sagen, dass sie nicht verstehen, wie ich mein Ernährungsproblem verstehe, dass sie nicht verstehen können, wie viel ich mit ihnen verbunden bin. Und ich schaue einfach nach ihnen und frage mich, in welcher Weise?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Das ist das, was du sagst. Das ist das, was du sagst.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Das ist das, was du sagst. Das ist das, was du sagst.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja, das 3-5-2 ist live und gut. Weil ich das erlebt habe. Und es ist großartig, weil es auch eine andere Seite zeigt. Und, weißt du, Frauen, die Fertilitätsprobleme hatten oder Paternitätsprobleme, oder sogar Probleme mit so vielen, auch Männern und Frauen, die sagten, ich hatte nie eine gute Beziehung mit meiner Mutter, wegen meines Gewichts.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und jetzt sind wir zusammengekommen und wir verstehen uns in einer anderen Weise. Ich meine, immer.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Eine Frau kam auf dem Flugzeug und sie hat angefangen zu weinen. Sie war so sorry, ich kann nicht glauben, dass ich das tue. Aber dein Charakter und die Show haben mein Leben verändert. Ja. Und ich weiß nicht, ob ihr die Geschichte gehört habt, aber es gab einen kleinen Jungen, der vielleicht neun oder zehn Jahre alt war. Er kam einmal auf Flugzeuge. Und das war, glaube ich, die dritte Saison.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und ein kleiner Junge namens Liam. Und er war so, oh mein Gott, Chrissy, du bist mein Lieblings. Du verstehst nicht, wie viel du in meinem Leben beeinflusst hast. Und ich so, dieser kleine, süße, neunjährige Junge, worüber reden wir? Und seine Mutter so, I was like, okay. Well, Liam wrote me a little note, like all these sweet things.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
And then his mom comes over and she's like, we're actually going to like an eating disorder clinic because he's anorexic and he doesn't, you know, and he relates to you in ways and he'll like binge and then he'll purge. And I'm like, wait, what? Like a 10-year-old boy, right? And so I'm just crying on the flight, reading these notes. And this woman's like, I guess I gotta watch the show.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
And I was like, Ich glaube, das ist die beste Art von Marketing, richtig? Ich glaube so, ja. Ja, es ist, ja, ich meine, es gibt so viele Dinge, die Kate und Tobi beide durchgeführt haben. Selbst die ganze Sache, wo die Leute so wütend waren, als ob sie ihn am Altar verlassen würde. Ich verspreche Gott, ich werde NBC anrufen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und ich bin so, Frau, gehen wir zurück zu der Zeit, als sie sagte, sie war nicht bereit für ein Verhältnis und er hat weitergelebt. Und wir lieben das. Wir lieben einen Mann, der weiß, was er will. Jedoch waren wir nicht sicher über Weihnachten. Weißt du, was ich meine?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich konnte sehen, dass ich eine Verbesserung in meinen Fähigkeiten hatte. Sie veränderten sich, vielleicht entwickelten sie sich. Aber es war, ja, und auch wenn ich das über all das sage, denke ich mir, oh Gott, ich suche nicht, ich fische nicht für Komplimente. Bitte.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Aber auch, als Tobi secretive Gewicht verloren hat, weil er sie nicht wirklich schaden wollte. Aber du weißt, es gibt viele unglaublich nuanced Dinge, über die mich die Leute immer ansprechen. Ja. Und wie es ihren Verheirat beeinflusst. Oder wie können wir durchgehen? Schwere Probleme.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich weiß nicht, ob du darüber gesprochen hast, aber mit Jack, der blind war, oder, ich weiß nicht... Visuell verletzt. Ja, weil er nicht komplett... Ja, visuell verletzt. Das sind Dinge, die... Es ist egal, wie man sie bezeichnet. Jeder gehört dazu.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Oh Gott, das Show ist wieder auf. Es ist noch auf? Ja, genau. 25 Saison später. Ja. Aber ich glaube wirklich nur, dass ich mich verpasst habe, dass ich euch jeden Tag gesehen habe, wie wir verschiedene Muskeln strecken, wie das große Kämpfe-Szenario, das wir hatten, das Episode, das du gedreht hast. Ich meine, ich war physisch krank.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Don't they say on a cellular level, your body doesn't know the difference?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Nein, ich bin so, oh, das fühlt sich seltsam an. Ich mag das nicht. Aber ich bin die Person, die, wenn ich fertig bin, fertig bin. Wie in der realen Leben. Ich bin ein Libra. Also bin ich sehr diplomatisch und all diese Dinge. Und du kannst mich sehr, sehr weit drücken, aber wenn du mich drückst und es weg ist, dann bin ich weg. Und ich war einfach so, Chrissy, das ist nicht wahr.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Alles ist in Ordnung. Du bist sicher. Jemand wird getötet. Das ist ein Aktivismus. Aber die Dinge, das Adrenalin, all das. Und ich bin auch so, bin ich bereit für das? Bin ich bereit für das? Ich denke, da kommt viel Angst rein. Bist du aufgewachsen? Emotionell? Technisch? Alles. Okay.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja, weil ich, ich hasse es nicht zu sagen, aber sogar schlechte Tätigkeit ist eine tolle Tätigkeit, weil es so viele Dinge gibt, die du erinnern musst. Und deine, weißt du, deine Marken und die Lichtung. Ich habe gehört, was du sagst. Es gibt so viel, was wir gleichzeitig machen. Es ist ein Wunder. Richtig, richtig, richtig. Was wir alles auf einmal machen. Ich bin so, wow. Wow!
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich kann das nicht. Ja, du kannst. Nein, ich kann es nicht. Du hast es einfach gemacht. Ich bin nicht großartig.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es ist nur, weil ich dich gesehen habe. Letztendlich das Beste, was ich je gesehen habe. Nein, nein, nein. Anyway, ich habe es gemacht. Ich denke, es ist das einzige Mal, dass ich es in meinem Leben gemacht habe. Und das war, weil es Druck gab und du es gemacht hast.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Wir haben nur unsere Beine geschmissen. Sie sagte, sie konnte es nicht, aber sie hat es geschafft. Ich habe das eigentlich noch nie gemacht. Es ist ein großer Tag. Es ist ein großer Tag. Es ist ein großer Tag. Es ist ein großer Tag. Also, ähm, ja. Ich fühle mich einfach immer, ich schätze immer, Aber es ist wirklich so, wenn ich mich vorbereite, fühle ich mich mehr sicher.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Aber manchmal, wie du weißt, haben wir nicht immer Zeit für Vorbereitung. Es gab nicht viel Zeit. Ja, Gott sei Dank haben wir andere Möglichkeiten, für die wir so dankbar sind. Oder, du weißt, die Nacht davor bis um drei Uhr morgens, wenn du nach Hause kommst, und dann musst du um sechs Uhr auf dem Set sein und du denkst dir, was? Er ist auf den Straßen, Chrissy. Ich bin auf den Straßen!
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Du musst um drei in der Morgen, du musst um sechs in deinem Auto sein. Weißt du, ich lebe in Narnia. Und so, wenn ich... Wenn ich durch den Wartschutz komme... Wenn du durch den Wartschutz kommst... Hallo und fahrst den Lion, dann ist es ein Wartschutz. Und Slay kriegt dich ab. Hallo.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ist das wahr? Für die ganze erste Saison. Well, we didn't have a chemistry read, right? Remember, he came to the table read. And I was like, oh my God, I love him. And I was like, but does he hate me?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich auch. Du musst den Brot wegnehmen. Ich auch. Du musst atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ich muss atmen. Ja, ich weiß, ich weiß, ich weiß, aber ich will nicht, dass die Leute das Falsche sagen, weil dann weißt du, es wird alles krass werden.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Was ist ein 3x3? Redet mit mir! Drei Patis, drei Käse?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und einen Hinge. Bist du Lettuce, Tomaten, Onions, rau?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Wie passiert das? Ich hätte die Zwiebeln und die Zwiebeln und die Zwiebeln vorgeben müssen. In-N-Out, wenn du zuhörst, Sponsor.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es war furchtbar. Es war eine große Episode für Kate, was cool war, weil ich mir gedacht habe, ich habe jemanden, der mitmachen kann. Ich glaube, ich kenne ihre Stimme, ich kenne das Verhältnis. Und das Interessante war, dass David und, oh nein, Tiffany, nein?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Oh man, now my brain. The writing team. Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey. Casey.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich bin nicht. Ich habe nicht gedreht. Warum hast du nicht gedreht? Eigentlich wollte ich das immer wissen. Er war beschäftigt. Oh, du warst, du warst. Sehr beschäftigt.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich erinnere mich einfach daran, wie involviert es war, auch in den Beratungen. Ich weiß nicht, wie es euch gefühlt hat, aber ihr habt eine Idee, wie es aussehen oder klingen wird, und das ist es nicht. Und ihr denkt euch, okay. Ich muss das jeden Moment wiederholen. Das ist ein kollaboratives Kunstwerk. Und das war schwierig, auch wenn wir auf dem Stuhl sitzen und die Stühle bauen mussten.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich dachte, oh mein Gott. Es war einfach viel. Aber ich liebte diese Episode konzeptionell, weil ich diese verschiedenen Wege gesehen habe, wie Kate Dinge interpretiert. Ich erinnere mich an ein paar Dinge, die Dan nicht wusste, ob es David Casey oder ich war. Und er hat es einfach bekommen. Und er hat gesagt, oh, das ist ein lustiger Witz. Das ist gut. Und ich war so, ja!
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Dan Fogelman dachte, dass etwas, was ich gemacht habe, lustig war? Oder enttäuschend? Oder ich mag das oder das. Das war sehr validierend. Das war eine coole Erfahrung, das zu machen. Aber es war... Es ist einfach sehr... Es ist einfach so viel los.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Sprechen wir von Agenten. Ich denke, ich habe es euch schon gesagt, aber ich muss mich wieder umdrehen. Hanna Zeal, die als Jüngere spielt, war damals mein commercialer Klient. Ich wusste das nicht. Du wusste das nicht? Ich weiß nicht, ob ich das wusste. Und auch Eris. Wir repräsentierten auch Eris. Es ist wirklich wild, wie lustig das Leben so ist. Ich wollte das einfach einstellen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja. Okay. Ja. Eine Frau stoppte meine Fahrt. Ich fuhr aus meinem Fahrzeug. Sie sagt, oh mein Gott, meine Tochter hat mir gesagt, dass du hier gelebt hast. Oh mein Gott, du hast es gemacht. Und ich war so, ja, hallo. Und sie war mit ihrem Hund unterwegs. Und sie war so, hör mal, wenn du nie wieder etwas machst, hast du es gemacht. Du hast es gemacht.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und ich habe gesagt, du weißt was, ich habe gesagt, Frau, du bist richtig. Ich habe gesagt, Frau, du bist nicht falsch. Und sie sagt, nein, wirklich, wenn du noch nie einen Job buchst, ich weiß nicht, was du jetzt tust, aber wenn du noch nie einen Job buchst.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich freue mich, dass du es gesagt hast. Hör auf, es zu sagen. Hör auf, es zu sagen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ist das, was du mir gibst? Okay, gut. Ja, und sie sagt, wenn du noch nie etwas machst, wie du es gemacht hast. Und ehrlich gesagt, da ist eine Part von mir, die das wirklich weiß. Und es wirklich so fühlt sich an. Weil ich denke, ich kann nur für mich selbst sprechen, aber als Schauspielerin, wie das ist, dass dieses Show ein Traum war. Ja. In jeder Kapazität. Ja.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Komplett, natürlich, hat mein Leben verändert. Ihr wisst, es war ein gebrochener Witz. Aber auch, du weißt, die Möglichkeiten und Dinge, die ich überlebt habe, überlebt habe, die ich in meinem Leben gemacht habe, dass ich es konnte, sogar, dass ich es konnte, ... meine Familie zu besuchen. Oder sie zu helfen, wenn es einen Hurrikan gibt und Bäume fallen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich meine, wirklich drei. All die Leute aus West-North Carolina und all die Leute. In jeder Art und Weise. Und meistens ist es großartig. Bis eine Frau mich am Flughafen beraten hat. Was? Es ist immer am Flughafen, Leute. Ich bin wie ein Sittenduck.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es ist nicht. Die Leute sind krank. Also ich war nach Nashville, um nach Utah zu gehen, um ein Gespräch zu machen. Okay. Und über Selbstvertrauen und all diese Dinge und wie wir durch die Welt gehen. Also ich bin da und sie sagt, oh mein Gott, oh mein Gott, oh mein Gott, ich bin hoch. Glaubst du, ich habe ein Bild? Und ich war so, ich bin tatsächlich spät gegangen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und es war für eine Therapie-Kolle mit einem Ex-Verein. Es hat nicht funktioniert, was großartig ist. Und ich habe gesagt, dass ich so entschuldigt bin, dass ich durch den Therapie-Kall fliege. Ich musste ihr nicht alles erzählen, aber ich habe es gemacht. Ich habe gesagt, ich fliege eigentlich spät für einen Therapie-Kall und ich will ihn nicht verpassen. Und sie war so, ach.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es war eine Entschuldigung. Und ihr kennt mich. Der Moment, als ich meine Grenzen drückte, wollte die Frau sie kacken.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
I said, you know what? I'm sorry, but I have to go. So I go. I'm in the Delta Lounge. Shout out Delta. It's like one of my favorites. It really is. I really love Delta. You ever do the Delta One entry? I love a Delta One entry.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
And... Unbeknownst to me, I guess she was in the lounge and I didn't know this. A couple of people walked by, I met this really nice guy who was French and blah, blah, blah. And he was like, oh, I love this show. I was like, oh, thanks. I know, that was so terrible. I love this show. I know, oh my God, I love this show. We watch it all the time. Yeah, my family and I.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
He didn't do no ha ha ha, but I thought he might have.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Are we breaking up? Because there's a really cute French guy. No, he was married. I'm not always scoping, I promise.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Autographs that you're paying for and I didn't say this but I was like but we're like walking and I gotta go and does your son really want the I was like is it me and she's like anyway I kept being like bombarded and I was like okay so then I finally get to the the baggage claim I get my bag and the girl from the plane oh boy or I didn't realize she was on my flight she was like from the airport also in the lounge also she's like Chrissy and I was like
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Oh mein Gott. Und sie sagt, wie darfst du? Und sie, ich bin nicht verrückt, ihr Leute, schreit, zeigt ihre Finger an mich, als wäre ich ihr Kind, das sie reprimandiert. Wie darfst du nicht ein Bild von ihr machen? Wie darfst du? Und der französische Kerl kommt zu meiner Rettung. Er war so, Entschuldigung, Entschuldigung, ich denke, du musst stoppen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Yeah, that's what he's like. No, he didn't. I don't want to say that. So anyway, he was like, excuse me, you do not get to talk to her like that. And she's like, you're not even a part of this. What I'm saying is all I wanted was a picture. My sister just wanted a picture. I was like, oh, so you didn't even want the picture.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
And I was like, the fact that I drew my boundaries and you don't even care and you still don't even care. All you had to say to me was, I'm so sorry you couldn't take a picture earlier. Will you take a picture with me now? And she was like, no, I don't even want the picture now. I was like, okay, great. Okay, great. And of course, Was hat Chrissy angefangen zu tun? Zu weinen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich habe angefangen zu weinen, weil ich mich schlecht fühle, weil es die erste Zeit war, dass ich meine Grenzen verlassen habe. Ich bin so, dass sie nicht sogar erfreut werden. Ich habe gesagt, weißt du was?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Die Leute versuchen, ihre Grenzen zu halten. Gott sei Dank kann eine Frau wie ein Mensch funktionieren, aber sie hat mich zu dem Punkt geschaut, dass es mich für einen Moment aufschlug.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es war nicht okay. Und glücklicherweise... Und dann kam Cheryl um die Runde und fragte mich, was da los ist. Und ich sagte, diese Frau ist mir dumm. Und sie sagte, oh, du hast mich noch nie gesehen. Oh, Cheryl. Wait, Cheryl hat das gemacht? Oder hat die Frau gesagt, du hast mich noch nie gesehen? Und Cheryl sagte, es ist genug. Es ist genug, Frau. Es ist genug, Frau.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Sie würde nicht. Ich sagte zu diesem Punkt, du willst wahrscheinlich nicht mal ein Bild von mir, richtig? Und sie so, oh, oh, weißt du was? Und der Typ war so, ich denke, du musst weg. Du musst den Flughafen verlassen. Der französische Typ. Der schöne Franzose.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich weiß. Es ist hart. Also, das kind of stuff really throws me. Ja. But most of it, 98 point, is really, really, really, really great. Sure.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Sie sagten, wer ist das große Mädchen? Wir sehen keine großen Mädchen auf dem TV. Wer ist sie? Sie hat noch nie was gemacht?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich mag das nicht. Können wir das noch einmal machen? Ja, es kam nicht raus.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich glaube, das Schwierigste für mich... Entschuldige. Nein, geh, mach es. Ich war in einer Bank, neun zu fünf. Ja. Ich verstehe es. Ein Teil des Jobs ist, dass du neun zu fünf arbeitest. Und ein Teil unseres Jobs ist, dass wir öffentliche Figuren sind. Und wir sind da und die Leute freuen sich auf uns zu treffen, was so toll ist, weil wir keine Fans haben, wir haben keinen Job. Ich verstehe das.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Hat sie eine neue Karte bekommen? Danke, Justin Hartley. Das war die Frage jedes Mal. Erinnerst du dich an das? Jedes Interview, jedes Mal, wenn wir Skrums haben oder so. Oh, was hast du diese Woche gekauft, Chrissy? Hast du eine neue Karte bekommen? Und Justin ist so, ja, sie hat eine Tesla gekauft. Und ich so... Ich hatte schon einen Audi, okay? Und ich habe einen Subaru bekommen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Aber... Ich denke, es ist viel zu erwarten, wenn die Leute mich immer wieder sehen. Meine komplizierte Beziehung damit, mit der ich mich gerade befinde, ist, wie sehr ich es liebe.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es ist wie, oh mein Gott, eines Tages könnte das nie wieder passieren. Ja, das ist mein neuer Weg damit. Oh nein, mein Ego ist sicher... Du bist einfach... ...nachrichtig mit Kleidern. Nachrichtig mit Kleidern. Es ist wahr. Ich verstehe es.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und was haben wir noch? Wir freuen uns darauf, von dir zu singen. Ich war mit einem Label für einen Moment und wir waren einfach nicht auf der gleichen Seite. Und mein kleines Ego war so, wow, es gab so viele, weil es den neuen Musik-Friday gibt, wo alle neuen Musik rauskommt. Es gab so viele Freitage, wo ich keine Musik hatte. Und dann bin ich so, oh, und ich gehe einfach zurück und zurück.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich brauche nicht ein Künstler zu sein. Ich will nur Musik machen. Ich will nur schreiben. Wie ihr wisst, wie ich schreibe. in eine Schriftstunde zu gehen und einen Song in vier Stunden zu schreiben, der noch nie vorhanden ist, ist eines der mächtigsten Dinge. Und das ist das, was ich wirklich liebe.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und mir zu sagen, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rechnerisch genug bin, dass ich nicht rech
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich werde ein Ein-Mann-Show für die Bühne entwickeln. Das ist sehr furchtbar. Das ist sehr, sehr furchtbar. Um Musik zu verwandeln, die nicht so commercial ist, mit meiner Lebensgeschichte. Und dass ich nur ein unbeendeter Geschäft bin. Das ist sehr furchtbar. Wer weiß, ob das jemals passieren wird, aber wir versuchen es. Ich könnte das absolut sehen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich habe ein zweites Kindertagesbuch im März. Als ich mit Kolben gesprochen habe, habe ich über meine Gefühle gesprochen. Weil jedes Mal, als wir das Buch lesen, wollten alle Kinder darüber sprechen, was ihre Gefühle waren. Ich denke, wir gehen wirklich in einen Schiff, einen Paradigmschiff. 100 Prozent. Es ist so wunderschön.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und diese kleinen 5-Jährigen, die sich ausdrücken können und ihre Gefühle nennen und darüber sprechen. Und dann machen wir Musik, um das Buch zu unterstützen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja, und welchen liebst du? Meine Freundin ist besessen mit ihrem Subaru, übrigens.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und dann habe ich Bank of Dave 2 gemacht, das ist ein Sequel. Rory Kinnear spielt diesen Mann, einen echten Menschen. Hast du diese Geschichte gehört? Nein. Er ist im Norden von England. Barrie, also rund um Barrie. Es ist eine wirklich, wirklich kleine arbeitende Stadt im Norden von England. Er hat eine Bank geschaffen, weil die Leute keine Löhne für Autos und Häuser bekommen konnten.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Also hat er sein eigenes Geld auf das Kollaterale gelegt, hat eine Firma geschaffen. einen Bank, mit dem er Geld für seine Gemeinschaft zahlen könnte. Rory Kinnear spielt Dave in dem ersten Film, und der zweite Film handelt es sich um die Erhöhung von Lohnschärfen und Payday-Löhnen. Es ist wie ein wirklich süßes Feel-Good-Film, das wir in England gedreht haben. Ich habe das vorher gesehen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja, es war wirklich lustig. Es wird nächstes Jahr ein Show namens Hunting Wives geben, basierend auf einem Novel. Es ist sehr blödsinnig und blödsinnig. Okay. Lass uns sagen, ich bin nicht blödsinnig oder blödsinnig. Aber ich mache mich auch nicht drum herum. Es war cool, weil es in Tyler, Texas steht. Katie Lowe von Scandal war dabei. Brittany Snow und Malin Ackerman sind die Leads.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
So yeah, it was just really fun. I mean, it was hot as heck shooting in North Carolina, but it was a lot of fun. So that comes out next year. Okay.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Is it serious? Yeah, it's just like the first season. I don't know. We don't know about.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Yeah. Gotcha. That's so exciting, Chris. So, you know, just trying to stay creative without trying to like, you know. You're just trying to survive, because life be life in two. Life be life in two. I know that's right. I don't have no kids. Everybody else got lots of kids. It's so cute.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
I can't believe I was busy enough to not be here. So thanks for... You're a busy lady. Not really, not really, because there ain't nothing going on now. You just named a bunch of them. That happened last year. Now it's time for the rollout. Listen, I was trying to be Meryl Streep's body double or stand-in for Only Murders. Didn't work? But I heard from Dan. Nobody has.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Because you ain't nobody's stand-in. Exactly. I was happy to do that for Meryl.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Genau, in Transition. Die Grund, warum ich durchgekommen bin, ist, weil ich einfach das, was ich fühlte, benutzt habe. Es ist wie, oh, sie fühlt sich ungeheuer in der zweiten Fiddle und sie fühlt sich niemals so, als würde sie zu irgendwas zählen. Und, du weißt, die Art, wie sie sich durch die Augen ihrer Brüder und ihrer Eltern angeschaut hat, ja, ich benutze definitiv das.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und ich denke, das ist so, wie ich es durchgekommen bin.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Na, lass uns zurückgehen. Ich habe meinen Managern in Florida gefunden. Ich hatte einen offenen Anruf an einem Weihnachtsabend, an dem eigentlich mein Vater-Vater und Mutter B.T. Dubs kennengelernt haben. Anyway, it no longer exists and that's fine. But it is on Newberry Road for all the 352s. Wir sind dann nach L.A. rausgekommen. Ich hatte einen Agent.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Dann lebte ich in einem 2-Bedroom-Apartment mit sechs Mädchen. Kenwood Muse. Okay. Shoutout Burbank. Right on. Und dann dachte ich mir, okay, das ist es. Pilot-Saison. Das war, als Pilot-Saison existierte. Und dann hatte ich eine Audition. Und ich habe alle anderen auf Auditionen genommen. Und dann hat mein Manager gesagt, oh, dein Agent will einen Assistent. Ich habe gesagt, wofür?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Weil ich es nicht kann. Was redest du da? Assistent, was tun? Ich würde nicht wissen, was? Also dann, es war immer der Ziel und der Wunsch, rauszukommen und ein Schauspieler zu werden. Aber es war nicht bis neun Jahre später, als ich ein Agent war, dass ich gesagt habe, ich sage das immer in jedem Interview, aber es war wie, wenn dein Freund eine andere Frau täglich rausnimmt.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Du bist so, oh, neun Jahre. Okay. Nein. How did you do that? Well, I ate my weight in Sprinkles Cupcake. I'm not kidding. You can laugh.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Thanks a lot. Aber auch, du weißt, die Klienten versuchen, dich zu beschleunigen, weil sie Auditionen wollen. Und ich war in Ordnung. Okay. Ja, es war so schwierig. Und dann war es literally so, als ob ich ausgehen würde. Ich war so, ich kann das nicht machen. Es hat 12 Jahre gedauert. Ich habe in L.A. gelebt. Und ich hatte nur vielleicht drei Auditionen pro Jahr.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es war nicht so, als ob ich etwas bekommen würde, das...
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ja, manchmal würde ein Kastenleiter sagen, oh, sie wussten letztendlich, dass ich Jackie's Assistent war und als Agentin geworden bin. Und so sagten sie, hey Chrissy, es gibt einen spezifischen Rollen, würdest du gerne lesen? Okay. Speziell mit Horror Story. Gotcha. Eric Dawson, der Horror Story gedreht hat. Roxanne, die am Ende eigentlich Breakthrough gedreht hat. Oh, ja. Das war seine Frau.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Oh, wow. Aber sie wussten über mich. Und sie suchten natürlich etwas sehr Spezifisches für Horror Story. Das klingt verrückt, aber sie brauchten jemanden, der mobil war. Also haben sie einen Prosthetik-Suit benutzt. Mehr darauf später. Ich wurde im Trailer verbunden. Mit meinem Prosthetik-Stuhl drauf. Es war verrückt. Ich dachte, ich kann nicht mehr raus.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und sie hatten nur ein Kostüm, weil die Fabrik so weit ist. Sie hatten nur ein Kostüm, wir konnten es nicht zerfangen. Es war wild. All das zu sagen. Ich wollte immer actieren, aber es hat ein bisschen länger gedauert. Ich dachte, ich würde ausgehen und zurückgehen. Ja. Und dann denke ich, okay, vielleicht lehne ich Kinder Akten. Oder ich lehne wieder Preschool.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
81 Cent in der Bankkarte. Oh Gott, ich weiß, die Geschichte wird in der Infamie runtergehen. Und das ist okay, weil ich so gebrochen war, dass ich keine Tension bezahlen konnte. Und das ist okay. Das ist ein Teil der Geschichte. Als ich zuerst ausgetauscht habe, erinnere ich mich an die Chemie-Drehung. Und es gab, ich weiß nicht, 30 verschiedene Leute. Ich glaube, 15 Männer und 15 Mädchen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und dann wurde es immer kleiner und kleiner. Aber weil ich damals noch als Agentin arbeitete, Ich war im gleichen Büro wie mein alter Agent. Und ich fragte ihn, hast du was gehört? Und er sagte, Chrissy, wenn du einen Anruf bekommst, werden wir es wissen. Jedes Mal, wenn der Telefon klingelt, sage ich, ist es sie? Ich brauche einen Job und ich muss hier raus. Ist es du? Ja.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Also, ich habe einen Anruf bekommen. Ich erinnere mich an Glenn und John und Dan. John und Glenn, die VPs produzieren. Ja, die Direktoren.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und ich erinnere mich, da war ein Name auf der Anrufplatte. Ich dachte mir, okay, das ist gute Nachricht. Okay, vielleicht bin ich die Einzige, die einen Anruf bekommt. Ich weiß es nicht. Und dann erinnere ich mich, ich gehe rein und Glenn sagt mir, oh, kannst du deinen Eingriff holen? Hol deinen Eingriff, weil wir den Eingriff für die Szene wollen. Und ich dachte mir, oh, das ist gute Nachricht.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und dann beendete ich, weißt du, die Szene zu lesen und ich war so, äh, egal. Es war nicht toll. Ich bin weg.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Es war, ähm. Es war, als wir von unserem ersten Date zurückgekommen sind.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Um ehrlich zu sein, ich glaube, sie war auf dem Fenster. Aber das ist okay. Das war mein Untertitel, aber das ist okay. Dann werde ich für eine Chemie-Beschreibung angerufen, die ich noch nie gemacht habe. Und das ist, als sie alle 15 Kevins mit Kates verbinden. Also bin ich da drüben und frage mich, ob ich wie er aussehe, ob er wie ich aussehe.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Ich werde mit ihm reden, weil er vielleicht wie mein Bruder wäre. Und ich erinnere mich an Justin. Ich war so, oh. Ich sehe nicht wie er. Ich sehe nicht wie er. Er ist wirklich hübsch, er ist groß. Ich sehe nicht wie er. Was wird passieren? Ich denke mir, oh, aber manchmal sehen Twins nicht gleich aus.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Also, du weißt. Aber ich habe mich nicht auf jemanden eingezogen. Ich war einfach so, Chrissy, alles, was du tun musst, ist, was du vorher gemacht hast. Also, all die Dinge, die ich meinen Kunden erzählen würde, du weißt, über ihre Auditionen.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Also, ich war einfach so, mach einfach, was du gemacht hast. Und dann sind ein paar Mädchen weg. Und dann, ich glaube, Justin und ich waren der letzte Paar, um reinzukommen. Und ein Mädchen ist vorbeigegangen und hat gesagt, oh, das ist eine gute Sache. Das ist eine gute Sache, wenn sie auf die Ende warten. Das ist eine gute Sache. Und ich bin so, okay, was auch immer.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Sie versucht, mir den Kopf zu holen. Ja, ja. Either way. Get out of here. Either way. Didn't work.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Yeah, either way. I'm just gonna do what I have to do. So I go in and, you know, all the executives are there. And it's just awkward, because you're like... Wenn sie lachen, wenn sie nicht. Und du willst nicht in der Szene sein, also willst du nicht schauen, was ihre Reaktionen sind. Du weißt, du bist so. Ja, das würde nicht gut sein. Du sagst viel. Was denkst du? Was denkst du?
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
Und dann... Ich bekomme einen Anruf, wahrscheinlich eine Woche später, und sie sagen, okay, wir möchten deine Haarfarbe verändern.
That Was Us
Chrissy Metz and Us | Kate Pearson
And I said, this is going to cost about $5,000 by the time I'm done with these payday loans. Which is ironic, because Bank of Dave 2 was about payday loans. We'll get to that. Okay. Anyway, so I just have experience. So anyway, they're like, we want to tint your hair, dye your hair. Can you go to the Bones costume department and hair? I'm like, what?
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
And they're made by a mom of three who really gets it.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
Remember that detail.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
Well, then they're evicted and they're sleeping in their car.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
And apologize for that person.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
We'll be right back after this break. More That Was Us coming up. That Was Us
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
Truly.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
It comes across on screen. You feel it. I love that. Yeah, definitely.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
You are so interesting. That's so cool.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
You did and more. It was extraordinary work. And thank you for joining us and chatting about it today. So happy to revisit you.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
Lovely to see you.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
This was our retread segment brought to you by Peloton. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
I bet they did. I know our show. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
Every time I read that page, I'm like, no. This can't be.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
Oh yeah.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
I agree.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
More That Was Us after this short break.
That Was Us
Deja & Shauna's Past | "This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life" (S2E17) with special guest Joy Brunson
Yeah, we didn't either. But data brokers are out there collecting your info and turning it into a business.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
But one day I was like, this is going to sound stupid, but... But I feel, and there's no, this is arrogant. It was like, it's where you can say the things you can't say to people. But I feel like I'm done in Chicago. I'd only been there five years. I'm like, I feel like I've done what I can do here. And I feel like Broadway is the next thing.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
And there's no, I had no prospects, no connections to New York, nothing. And I can show you the page. And one week later, I got a phone call from a company manager of a play I was in, in Chicago, who said, hey, a friend of mine in New York is casting for a Broadway play, and she's looking for football player-sized actors.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Living in Chicago. Wild. You want to hear the craziest part? Give it to me. I wasn't the only person in that artist's way group of 12 people to get a Broadway play. Who else? There was another, this woman named Elizabeth. Okay. Six months later, got a Broadway play. Really? Out of nowhere. Like just manifesting things. People record, two people recorded albums.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
One person moved to Thailand to become a filmmaker. Like it was a magical group. But yeah, so the scope of what's possible, like you said, I never dreamed. At every moment, I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. No, I can't believe this is happening.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Which is why we should ask that question. Yeah. We should ask each other. I agree. And if you want to share, you should share it. And if not...
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors. Sully, I have peeped
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
And the best part? Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than you'd find at similar brands. Plus, Quint's only partners with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible practices. It feels good knowing that you're getting quality, but you're also supporting better standards at the same time.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Yeah. This woman, like, it's so, the writing and the way they've set up this relationship, like, it's very clear that back in high school, you even said early on, like, I had a good example. Yeah. Yeah. Not talking about your mom. No, no. Her. Talking about this woman. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
And it's not, like, loyal to her son. No. Above.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Well, because it kind of, I mean, in a passive way, it's what Jack wants too, which is to get as far away from here. Yeah. As possible. It's very true.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Now, I know you're talented. Was that your tier? They're all my tiers. That one was yours? They're all mine.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Sterling can just pull it up, just to sit there.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Enraptured. And I would like everyone to notice, it's camera side.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Before this podcast, sorry. Go ahead. Before this podcast is over, we're going to ask you to do it on this podcast.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
It just looks like you have been crying.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
You have a group text thread? Me, Miguel, and Beth. It's mostly GIFs, but GIFs and talking about how messed up your family is.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Banana cream ice cream? Yeah, the banana pie ice cream. The one that she wanted for her wedding.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Hot take. Right there. Hot take. Zoom in. But he delivers quite the line. He says, they've never seen anyone like you. And they never will again. And they never will again.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Well, it's while we were hugging. Remember she asked. That's right. We were hiding. Yeah, my arm was around you.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Yeah. And pretend like you forgot why you got married. There you go. Yeah. There you go.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Delete Me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online, especially at a time when surveillance and data breaches are making everyone feel a little exposed.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Delete.me works by removing your personal information from hundreds of data broker websites, the ones that quietly collect and sell your data without you ever knowing.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
I'm curious. I'm curious. And I don't underestimate people.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
I know that. Yeah, like someone's looking at you, but I think that was the... It's usually my four-year-old. I know that well. Get out, geez!
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
He has a Vietnam board. To let a TV audience know that I'm thinking about something.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Okay. Yeah, I freeze up. You do? I don't know how to ask. I feel like I'm imposing. I feel like, yeah, like it's none of my business. Even my close friends, close family. Yeah. Yeah, maybe it's more – obviously, it's like a self-pity type thing more than anything else. I don't know what to say. It's none of my business. You know, that type of kind of locking up. I don't know.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
It's just part of the wiring, part of the way growing up.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
You're very good at it. You are very good at checking in and just coming out with it. Like I've seen you do it. You've done it with me. I've seen you do it with other people. And you do it in a way where there's no – None of your questions are leading.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
for you to ask me that. Wow. Which is my own thing.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Right. Another TV legend. Who is it? And his mom.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
It's still all feeling a little phony to me. Is it really? Yeah, because she's jumped in because she gets to meet Terry Gross, not because she's trying to support Kevin. I feel like that's the- Like, get out of here.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Malcolm in the Middle. The mom from Malcolm in the Middle played by.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
That's right. I knew I knew who that was. But you know, because this is us, weaves it all in. And you're like, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Hard show to syndicate. Very hard show to syndicate.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Please allow me to host. Go. Yes. If you don't mind, contestants. Apologies. Welcome to the fan segment, our favorite portion of the podcast today. We are talking to Ashley Mims. Hi, Ashley. Hello. Ashley is going to be competing against my co-hosts, Sterling and Mandy. Here we go. On their This Is Us trivia. Oh, boy. And Ashley, what we've decided is, I've got a series of questions here.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Some easy, some medium level, and some hard.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Since we don't have buzzers, what the buzzer system is going to be is as soon as I am done reading the question. Yeah. As soon as I'm finished reading the question. You have to finish the question. Okay. You say your name to buzz in. Okay. Okay. So whoever says their name first. I'll take a quick mims. Okay. Okay. And... A mizzle?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
So all of these questions are from season three, episode three, entitled Katie Girls.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Ashley, ready? Yeah, she's so ready. Ashley is going to smoke you, and I'm going to be embarrassed for us. Yeah, you should be. Here we go. Question number one. Please only buzz in after I'm finished reading the question. Where does Rebecca run into Jack when she says he never showed up for their second date? Brown. Grocery store. That is correct.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
No, thank you. Sterling, if you answer all of these. I won't. We got two very competitive cast members here. Question two. What surgery is Kate undergoing in this episode?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
I'm going to give that to you. You buzzed in a little early. Please let me finish reading the question.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Question three. In a flashback sequence, Jack gets mad at young Kevin for playing with what item?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Now the questions get to a medium level of difficulty.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Before Kate goes into surgery, she tells Toby that if she dies, she wants him to move on, but she forbids him to move on with which two people?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
That is correct. All right. I hope someone else is keeping score.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
This is a hard format for a trivia show. We're figuring it out. Question two in the medium category. When Jack is moving his mom out of her house and over to her friend's house, away from his abusive father, what does Jack's mom say she has to stop to get?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Go for it. Question three. At the end of the episode, Rebecca asks Jack if she wants to go for a drive. Where does she ask him to drive to?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
You good. You good. Okay. Where are you from, Mims?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
I got you. Okay. Here we go. That was a dangerous question to ask. Well, I said it's either one or the other. It's serious. I didn't even ask it. Yeah, yeah. But even to ask it. To whom, question four, to whom does Rebecca confess she might have a feeling about someone other than Alan? Four. Okay. That was brown. Alan's mama.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
All right. I don't know what the... Someone give me score? Mandy Moore's got three. I got two. Meryl's got two. Got it. There you go. All right. These are the hard ones, y'all. Yeah.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
These are worth more points, right? These are worth two points. These are worth two points. Good. Okay.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Except for you, these are only worth one. Damn. No more talk back. Okay, question one. What's Alan's line to Rebecca, which he says both when he first meets her and when he shows up on her doorstep?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
You have to do two points to each. They both get two points. I was going to say the same thing. You get none.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
These are the rules. You signed off on this at the beginning.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
All right, question number two. What color is Jack's car when he drives to Rebecca's house when he sees Alan on her doorstep?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Right on. Question three. Who does Beth have an imaginary conversation with after getting fired?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
That's correct. That is correct. All right, two more questions. Okay, okay. I hope someone's keeping track. What city did Alan ask Rebecca to move to three years prior to which she rejected the proposal?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Last question. Jolly London town, mate. This is the last question. It is worth five points.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
When Toby and Randall are sitting in the waiting room at the hospital, what word do they both say while hitting their heads and chest? Brown. Man. That is correct.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Yeah, and he just finished watching it. This was so much fun, and I'm not sure if it was totally fair at all, but thanks for being here and testing this out.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
There you go. This one's worth no points.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Or you can leave us a message on the emotional support hotline at 412-501-3028. Again, that's 412-501-3028. There you go. We'll see you next week. Take care, everybody. Bye, friend.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
And Sterling literally just finished this episode.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
All right, we'll wait. Oh, no, no, no, no. No, no, go ahead. It's time to go. No, we'll just look at the camera.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
That was really well delivered. It was really well, like, because Rebecca's kind of testing his waters with her dreams. Yep. How would this guy react to what I want to do?
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
I feel like that's a question we should be asking. Huh? Do you have a dream? Like, instead of, like, I'm always, because I'm constantly around, like, bears and
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
kindergarten parents yeah and i'm like instead of being like so what do you do sure what's your job that's a good icebreaker yeah you know like hey what's your what's your dream that's a good one you know like like it's such an easy yeah it's like and and most importantly if someone's never been asked that yeah you know like our last our last uh um fan segment write the book
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
It's in you. She writes all the time now. It's in you. Write the book. For sure.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
Yeah, same. Yeah, I mean, I was perfectly content with my life in Chicago. Yeah. Being like a blue collar theater actor. Sure, man. Paying the bills, owning a house, working in the theater. Yeah. And then scooped off to New York out of nowhere. Yeah. Like a magic trick. And the same... Was Lombardi took you to? Yeah, yeah. Okay. It was... I'm not kidding. It was a magic trick.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
I was doing the artist's way with a group of people. And we were doing our morning pages.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
The Artist's Way is a 12-week workbook to recover your creative self. Gotcha. To break through any of the inner critic voices, to move past any of the blocks you have to maybe following your dream. Yeah. It doesn't have to be even artistic, but creativity is involved in everything. Yeah. And it was written by this woman named Julia Cameron. And she is a famous kind of 12-stepper. Okay.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
And ironically, the book is 12... I'm not ironic. It's not ironic. It's 12 weeks. There's a reason. It's 12 weeks. And each creative recovery step is based on one of those steps. Okay. And they tell you not to do it alone. Yeah. She says, do it in a group. Have you done it? No, no. But I know all about it. It's like hard, emotional... soul searching and to do it by yourself.
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
A lot of people, if you ask anyone who has tried it on their own, they have made it to week four. Okay. And they, and they put it up on the shelf because week four is where you have to like, look back, dig deep and figure out why you're not doing what you want to be doing. Okay. And admit it to yourself. Okay. And try to move through it. Yeah. That's hard work. Um, but the, the, that
That Was Us
Kate's Fertility Treatment | "Katie Girls" (303)
One of the things you do every day is you wake up in the morning and you do these morning pages, which is three pages of just like... You don't edit. You don't edit. You just blurt it all out. And it's essentially like a release valve for negativity or anxiety or whatever, doubt, whatever the thing is. I used it for several different things, including songwriting and all these things.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That's a bar. It's a bar.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He just like, and it was so beautiful. And it's like the poor guy really didn't know what he was stepping into with Kevin when he was like, let's do one for your old man.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He doesn't know how to do that. I also like that in this episode, we have a landline, which I don't know how many people actually, quick, landline to anybody? No. No. What do you mean? Grow up with one? No, no, no. Not growing up with one, but mom and dad. Do you have a landline right now? I have one. just in case of like earthquakes, emergency and stuff.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
So in the middle of Kev trying to deliver this monologue, there's a bit of a montage that transpires from the past. And we see a flash to Pilgrim Rick. So you see Kev's thinking about his dad. You see the dog pile from 102, where everybody sort of piles in on each other or whatnot. And he can't get this damn thing together. And it's also one of the actor's nightmares of just like,
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
not being, I don't know if you guys have this one ever. Like just freaking out. They're like, I don't remember a single word of what I'm supposed to be saying and people are standing around.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Well, what about this actually ever happening in person? Has this happened to you guys? It's happened to me before.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It's hard to remember. It's definitely happened more than once. Maybe you find a way to get it back together, but there's definitely a time where you're just walking confidently into something. I know how it's going to go and you have a certain expectation. Then for whatever reason, some element throws you off and you just can't recalibrate and find your way back to the beginning of the thread.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You don't know your words. And it's just like, everything starts to unravel. Like I definitely could relate to Kevin in this moment. Like I've, I've been, I mean, I can't, I'm sure that for sure happened over the course of six seasons on this show. It's like, there's so much expectation we have of ourselves and it's, and yeah.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
As actors, we're asked to bring so much of our own lives to characters, to experiences, imbuing our own colors to whatever work that we're supposed to be doing. For someone like Kevin, we're starting to understand he is just... He is so locked up about his dad. This is something that he, like... And we find out later in the episode, Kate's like, you just don't ever talk about it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You have to talk about it in some way, because otherwise it's going to manifest itself like this.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 2, Episode 3, Deja Vu.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
But I use it, especially if somebody calls on a landline, it means you don't know who I am. I'm not picking it up.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, the emotional focus that is required from time to time on set can be immense, right? And sort of like, you know, like people come in and they wanna, so many people, like you guys know what this is, like in between takes, you gotta refresh the makeup, You gotta make sure the wardrobe's together. Did the microphone move? Reset everything back to what it was. And they're all doing their job.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Correct. But they're touching your face. And your job is to maintain this moment that you have to go right back to after it, right? And so those things don't always like fit like hand gloves.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I was like, do you know the number to your left?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I do not. Exactly. It says home in my cell phone.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, he lays into her. He winds up saying something to the fact, like, there's nothing for me to let out because she says, like, you never talk about him. You never, like, let it out. And he says, I'm not like you. I don't need to walk around being sad and damaged just because you are.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, and she is out. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, okay, that's enough of that. I tried to be here for you. You know what I'm saying? It's not like I ain't trying to pursue my own singing career. I'm here for you.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And then I believe that this part of the story ends with him coming back to set, doing a take of a scene where he then proceeds to really hurt himself. He hurts his knee.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
There's the big war scene, what have you, and he's running through ditches trying to get somebody. Lands on his knee. And also there is the montage. We see football Kev back in the day. We see Jack taking off a necklace, I believe. Putting it on him. Putting it on him or whatever. Is there anything else in that part?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah. When I see the little steps and things that we do to set things up for later, I'm like, you Mickey Feekers are really orchestrating this shit.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I like it. And so yeah, they're setting some things up with regards to that.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I believe that's the next episode.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
She also says, she looks at the urn and she goes, he's just like you. Just like you. And that's, you see him take a pill for the pain. Right. At the end of the episode. Uh-oh.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Uh-oh. Spaghetti. I'm getting 203 and 204 crossing wires there because I watched them at the same time, but.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Well, let's talk about the past. Let's talk about what's going on with Rebecca and Jack back in the day. He goes to the AA meeting and he's talking about recognizing that he's kept too much to himself, right? But it's not easy sharing. And so that's kind of like the step from after having talked to his daughter, now he's talking here.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Anyway, you see- I digress. Beth trying to calm him down. The phone starts ringing. Right, while they're in the middle, he's cooking his feelings. She loves it when he cooks his feelings. Phone starts ringing. She said, look, the last time this happened, it wasn't anything, no big deal. And she's like, woman, will you please answer the dadgum phone? Turns out that it is the foster child.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I think he says something like, I think you get extra points for crying or what have you, but it's not.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And it's interesting. It's something I think that when we chatted with Milo recently, we alluded to the fact that Jack is just from a different time. He's from a different generation where bearing his soul, being vulnerable, talking about his emotions, not keeping things close to the vest is just not an option.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It's dangerous.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It's not just a different time. It's happening today.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
But you're right. It is still the same for many, many, many people.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
There's no time for it. No time. Yeah, yeah. So we see him working the steps I think we actually, like after that, Beck is wondering where he's not in bed. He's downstairs at the kitchen table still going through his steps and just trying to figure out like, how to do it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He has a great just look of concentration of just like, all right, this is foreign, this is unfamiliar, and I know it's necessary. So I'm going to stay at it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And he's really doing things a different way than the cold turkey guy hanging on for dear life of, you know, when the kids were eight or nine and Rebecca told him he needed to get it together and he did quit drinking for a good period of time. This is different. This is like, okay, I'm really going to do something about this. And so you're right.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It's like there is a, there's a discomfort in the like total foreign world that he's sort of been plopped in the middle of.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, man. There's a scene later just like in the kitchen and everything just feels like nobody's talking to each other. Yeah. Right. I think Jack walks in and whatnot. And Kate sort of clocks there. Like everything just looks tense. It's off. Right. And it's not sequential. You guys help me out. But you go and you have a conversation with Miguel's ex.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
With Shelly. How are things since the fight? And then she sort of like really puts it out there. When's the last time you had sex? Yeah. And she's like, you know, I can't remember exactly.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
No one's really in the mood for that.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
She's gonna be coming soon. And he's very excited, nervous, et cetera. You know, he's read all these things about, you know, best ways to make people feel at home. Make sure you say your name, repeat it several times so they can hear it. And then Deborah Jo Rupp, right?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Listen, because she said it was the beginning of the end for me and Miguel. And I remember I wrote down, I said, I don't remember this at all. Because like, I've had this conversation with many a married couple. Let's speak in a heteronormative sort of way or whatnot. Like for most, like you just said, besides Jack Pearson, we need to have sex. Yeah. Real talk, yeah. Straight up.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Like when it goes for an elongated period of time, what have you, and like one person is acting like, oh, everything's fine, right? And you're like, no. No. It's been, I know how long it's been. One week since you looked at me.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Therapist telling me years ago, she said when the sex goes... It's like when the bees go, the relationship is like on.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, exactly. It's on its outs, like on its way out. Like it is a very, that level of intimacy is a very important part of most relationships.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, because it's not just a physical thing. It is the most intimate that we can be with each other in terms of sharing ourselves and our lives with one another.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
On that oxytocin. Toby Llama. Come on, tell him Toby Llama. It is, okay, so then she picks up the mantle because she says, you know, it's normally my husband that sort of goes with the grand romantic gestures and Shelly's like, come on, you got to do something. So she's, you decide to take him on a date. To Jack Pearson him.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You go to Jack Pearson, sort of hijack him, and you can tell he's sort of in his head, but yeah, he's my favorite person. We can go hang out. You go to a place where you went on an earlier date.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
On an earlier date. Was it the Rose Bowl? It was a green screen. Was it really? Yeah, it was a green screen.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It can't be the Rose Bowl, it's on the West Coast.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It was supposed to be Three Rivers Stadium.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Oh, sure, sure, sure.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I believe that's the name of it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That is the name of it in Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh, yes.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And it was, you know, a location of a previous date early in their courtship that they didn't end up making because things got a little hot and heavy.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And so she gets burgers.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
She starts to put the moves on him and he stops.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He's like, can we just take it to, and it's like, I've only been in that situation a couple of times in my life. And I always wonder like with kid gloves for the woman, like sort of being kept at arm's length. Like I always feel like, oh gosh, I know I'm not supposed to be doing this right now. And I'm not trying to hurt your ego in any kind of way, but like, I just not in that space.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Is our social worker who is from That 70s Show. That's right. Also sort of populating the world of familiar faces that we've grown up with in our lives. And she drops Deja off. And now there's a shot before we get to this of Deja from the back. I think just exiting, I don't know if it's the courthouse or whether it's the foster care facility, what have you.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And I'm so curious, like what that was like for you to like live through if you have any recollection.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
On the show. On the show. It never happened to me anymore in life.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That rejection is soul crushing. It's, yeah, it was really defeating, I think, for Rebecca because this is a big move to put herself out there in this way.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, I think like their connection is so, it's so immediate. It's so intrinsic. Like it's, I feel like the sort of, let's for lack of a better word, like their physicality with one another is probably something that's never been an issue for them.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And they've, obviously kept their distance these last couple weeks because of everything that's gone on and no one's necessarily been in the mood to think about that that level of intimacy with one another and sharing themselves like that but i i'm imagine this this kind of you know rejection for lack of a better word from her husband is the first time she's experienced it and it's it's uh
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
confusing and confounding and, you know, it leads to them having a larger conversation that she's like, got it. They leave, they go back home. They have a conversation outside of their house and which leads to,
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Genuine connection. They get out of the car. And then he's like, you know what? I'm getting back in the car. Cause like the night's not over. I'm not ready.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I was talking to one of my favorite people and I don't want it to end.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I don't want it to end. I'm not ready to be done talking with you yet.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He tells you, he says, this is harder than I thought it was going to be. Yeah. Right. It's harder than I thought. AA slash talking to you.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Right. Like what a, that's vulnerability. That's vulnerability. Father and son.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And speaking of vulnerability, he ends up admitting to her when They were pregnant. He went to his own father and asked his father for help to help buy their house. So he's starting to open up and share a side of him. I'm sure things that would never have crossed Rebecca's mind. There is something really funny. I wrote Pixie Cut season six.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He alludes to the fact that I cut my hair into a pixie, like Peter Pan. And I'm like, These writers, this is season two, episode three. Like the fact that that- Did the cut, it happened? Yes. In an episode later in season six, I get a silly haircut and I was like, I hadn't even thought about that.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I was like, wow, someone really kept track of that one little tiny detail and infused it in an episode that like, it wasn't a big plot line. It was part of this one episode. It was this silly sort of storyline thing. But I clocked that and was like, whoa, that came to fruition. That's really wild that someone acknowledged that.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And then they show another back shot of her as she enters into the house and they sort of swivel in around her face. And she's my little baby. That's right. with her little cheeks. It's so cute. And her hair's just long. And you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, hi, I'm Randall. And you hear Beth, I'm Beth. And everybody's sort of introducing her. And then she says like, well, I'm sleepy.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Wow, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, yeah, that little Easter egg. You see you guys laughing in the car after he invites you back and you guys are cracking up. And he talks about borrowing the money from dad. And he says, there's a lot of other stuff too. I'll tell you eventually. I'm working on it. And I think that allows like, okay, boots. Boots can now be knocked. Knocked.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You know what I'm saying? Get back in the car. So it's good.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Wait, can we also, is this when the dog gets introduced?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Because I believe the food- Because they're eating the burgers. Yeah, they're eating the burgers and the dog- It's this episode. Because Rebecca throws the bag of food kind of behind her and they go to saunter back to the car and they come back and they're like, who's this cute little dog that's eating our leftover burgers? And that dog becomes a family dog. He becomes a part of the fire.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It's a whole other can of worms that we- Are we blending stuff? No, no, I believe that's two- They find a dog.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, yeah, that's two or three.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Also, we failed to mention Randall.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Reaching out to look for his birth mother.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Randall's looking for his birth mother in the past. That scene is crazy. Yeah. And he gets a letter back early saying that, like, you know, you found me. I can't believe you found me and you're looking for me. Can we meet at this park at a certain time? And he's talking to his brother and sister. I think Kev asked him who's hotter, Brandy or Mariah Carey.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I love when my white brother asked me, like, about two black chicks, who he thinks is the hottest. I was like, why are you asking me, dog? I'm thinking about who's my mama.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And so they actually wind up going with him, which I think was really sweet that they recognize the gravity of what he was actually attempting to do. And they go with him. And my man sits on this bench and this white lady who is clearly strung out on something says like, I see you looking at me as just your father was really dark and you told me that you didn't need money.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And so I thought, well, my son must be doing really well. And you get immediately that she needs money. And this poor dude is just sitting there like, I cannot believe that this is what came of me trying to find a part of myself. And just gets up and walks away and he goes, it's not her, let's just go.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, it's a lot.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And it's interesting because it allows him to connect with Deja in a way, because while their situations aren't the same, he's like, I know what it's like to feel sort of disconnected. He talks about when I was younger, I felt sort of split into the family that I loved and that I knew that there was this other family, this other part of me that I was constantly trying to find.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
But, you know, in bringing me into this family, I now have this big... beautiful life, right? And if I see, when I see you, I see the potential for that sort of big, beautiful life as well. If you can open yourself up to that possibility and you see her sort of like lean in a little bit more than what she had when she first came into the house.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah. Should we talk to Lyric?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
As the days get shorter and the temperature drops, I have my chilly weather routine down to a science. Cozy blankets, check.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Family activities for colder days, check. Fall fashion, obviously.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I want to go to bed. And they're like, yeah, yeah, we can do that. No problem. Later on, I think that, do we have her in the kitchen? And we're trying to show her like where she can get food and all these sort of things. I think that maybe that's when she says she wants to go to bed. Yeah, that's right. And great. Deborah Jo is about to leave, social worker.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You know what I do tend to forget, though? Talk about it. My workouts.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Thankfully, Peloton has my back. Whether I'm feeling motivated to crush a fitness goal or just need a few minutes for a peaceful meditation, Peloton has everything I need for workouts of all kinds.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Guys, they really do. I'm going to be honest with you. Listen, I've got the treadmill. I've got the bike. I've got some instructors who I go to all the time. Jess Sims has these incredible boot camps that kick my butt up and down. If I want to do an arm workout with Tunde, I get super jacked.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Toussaint, AT, Adrian Williams, like, whatever you want to do, if you want to do bar method, if you want to do yoga, like, there's something for everybody on this app.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I think it's just Sterling KB. You can follow me. Yeah, check him out. That's me.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I just got a Peloton Tread. And even though I'm really brand new to it, it's totally accessible to me. And it fits into my life and my routine whenever I have time for a workout. And I have a new baby. Yes, ma'am. This was the thing that I was like, you know what? I'm adding this into the home to make sure that I'm getting my steps in. And I love the fact that you can just do a 10-minute workout.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
If that's all you have time for, you can pat yourself on the back for just moving.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, that's true. Though I would not recommend it, okay?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Some days, I'm all about competing in those live classes, trying to crush that leaderboard. But for others, especially when it's to cool out, right, a simple time, I just go on a walk. That's all I need to clear my mind. With Peloton, your workout adjusts to you. Whether you're feeling the burn or taking it slow, it's all on your terms.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
So focus on yourself and let Peloton meet you right where you are.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Oh, look at her. She got her face done, hair done, nails done, everything did. Go on, show them, girl. Stunt. Stunt. Let them know.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Lyric, you have the world's greatest smile.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You always have. That's true.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Definitely. One of my favorite people in the world is joining us to talk a little bit of deja vu. It is Deja herself, the one, the only Lyric Nicole Rawls. Yay! Yay! Hello, hello. How you doing, ma'am?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And he's like, can I follow you out real quick? And he says like, you know, everything that I've read about this, nothing seems to be working right now. Do you have any suggestions? Like this seems like a lot harder than what I thought it was going to be. She's like, yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be harder than what you thought it was gonna be. That's okay, just take your time. You're doing fine.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
We were just talking not too long ago. Mandy was saying, she's like, I didn't realize that Deja was in so soon. She's like, I thought it was like season three maybe or something like that. But by episode 203- You are a part of the Pearson family on through to the end of the show. And what we want to know right now is how did this come to you?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I know a little bit because I came to like one of your auditions, but tell us about how you first got the audition, how it came across and first steps. That's all. If you can remember that far back. Yeah, I know. You've grown up. It's a long time ago.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That's right. From the Chi. Okay. Okay.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
What a way to arrive. Was it exciting? Intimidating? Like, what was the vibe that was going on in your soul?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You're like, what do you remember about that audition in LA?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And just be patient. And she says to him, she's like, that's not really your thing. He's like, no, but I'm working on it, right? So Deja's upstairs. She's going through her bag. Oh, Beth brings her a toothbrush. So she goes to brush her teeth and Beth sees in this bag, she's got like a pack of cigarettes, right? Randall's talking to Tess and Annie. He's like, hey guys, what are you thinking?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Hey, hey, hey. Look, hey. Oh, there it is.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
There you go. All right, cool. There you go. I will say this, and this is all respect to all people who are at the audition, but Sue and I, After you read, we were like, this is her. We done? This is Deja, right? Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because we went and told Dan, and we're like, Dan. There's no question. Like this young lady is special, right? I stand by that. I know you grown now.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Can I still call you a young lady? You grown, but you're a young lady. Yeah. She's special. And as I was rewatching Deja Vu, and remembering just meeting you for the first time. Because everything, like you said, was brand new for her. Like we would be on set and we'd be having like, you know, prop breakfast. And she'd say, ooh, these real strawberries. Ooh, I like these strawberries.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And you know, she's very quiet. You know what I'm saying? And she's, you know, she's getting her adult on right now. But even at 13, she's like, Oh, they got real syrup for these pancakes.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Awesome. She moved back. She comes out to LA to take meetings. You know what I'm saying? Sure. From time to time. I love Chicago. She's very fancy. I love Chicago. I mean, what was your experience on the show like? Like you got the job, you're on the set. I remember, well, I'm gonna ask you about one thing in particular. I want to ask you about the cutting of your hair. Okay.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Now look at the face that she makes. Because I remember this young lady, she's very attached to her hair. As we are. And they told her that she had to cut it off. And boy, was there, I mean, there was some tears. That was a tough time. Talk to me a little bit about that scene and like them talking to you about it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Annie's like, can we give her back? And I'm like, no. And you're like, okay.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
She didn't laugh at any of our jokes. She didn't do this and that. I said, listen, this is brand new for her too. She's meeting all new people. It's a new family. Give it some time. The same advice that the social worker gave him, he's trying to give to his daughters.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Just when it's on the back of your head. I was like, oh, this is someone to pay attention to. That's right.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
There is a rhythm that you have, L Boogie, that's like, you don't let anybody else sort of dictate your rhythm. Like you're like, I know my rhythm and I'm going to move at that pace. And then people have to sort of get in where you are, which I think is like incredibly strong. Like, and I know you probably don't view it in that same sort of way, but like, it's like, you are...
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
this magnet that's sort of like, okay, if you wanna get to where I am, then just do that in that way. And you changed like the dynamic of our family in such an incredible way. And the writer saw it and just started writing more and more things. Like you got to fall in love and have like this beautiful relationship that played out over time.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And then in the future, even though you didn't get to do the future, you gave me a grandson, which I'm really, really thankful for. But I'm curious, like, what is the big takeaway from your whole experience on the show?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He hears a kerfuffle of sorts. And there's a bit of a row. I said, I guess that's redundant, but between Beth and Deja. And we hear, I think for the first and only time on the show, like someone called bitch.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Man, we all cross our fingers and hope that it's possible. They're looking at me right now, Elle Boog, because I'm crying because I love you.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Such a beautiful human being. I remember we won the SAG Award one year for best ensemble. And I think you were up on stage and you were just looking and you were like, because Elle Boog keeps things close to the vest, right? She doesn't like to get too emotional in front of people, but she was feeling it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
yeah which made me feel it even more and we just hugged each other and i kissed her on the forehead and we got to share that moment together yeah and uh hopefully we get a chance to share a few more things we should put the photo of that that cast photo from that yeah we have a great photo of all of us yeah from the sag wars we should put that in here
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Can I ask you too, Lyric, do you keep up with Faith and Eris? Because like my kids on the show all sort of bonded in such a really deep way. And I know the three of you did as well. You were truly sisters. And it was so being around you, being around that energy, like you guys championed each other and supported each other and loved each other.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And it was just so palpable, like on camera and off camera. And I'm just curious if you guys are still in touch.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
What up, y'all?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And maybe next time you're in Los Angeles, if it works out, we can all do this together in person.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
People just want to support and follow. Yeah.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Do they have a air date for your Ironheart, for your project?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Thank you so much for taking the time.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Never voiced it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
So the holidays are officially right around the corner. The best time of year, the most exciting time of year. I'm sure all of you guys have travel plans.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Hello, friends.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I'm going to go see my family. I'm looking forward to it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
What a great way to get to know a city. I love that.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You'll have to be our tour guide next time.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Listen, like many of you, we're getting into the swing of holiday planning. Whether you want to or not, it's the season for figuring out who is traveling where, who is arriving when, and is the dog coming? And for all these reasons, we rely on Airbnb.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
She said like, give me back my stuff, you bitch. And like Randall perks up, you know, goes into the room to settle. Hey guys, calm down. What's happening as he moves towards Deja? She flinches. She flinches. She like covers her face. Protectively, yeah. Like she's about to get hit. Now Randall was raised by white people.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Hosting on Airbnb is a smart way to utilize your unused space, and getting started with hosting has never been easier. It's a great way to earn a little extra and can help subsidize the busy holiday travel season.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You know I can always use a little extra money in my pocket. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Airbnb.com slash host.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
How you doing, Mandy Moore?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I'm well, how are you?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Gang, we've said it before, we'll say it again. This is probably our favorite segment of the show when we get to talk to you, our listeners.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Pretty much. So let's go ahead and call somebody back.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I'm doing quite well. Christopher Sullivan, how's it going, sir? I'm doing very well. I'm glad to hear it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Emotional support for us. You try. Don't worry about it. It doesn't always work. To the swing. Anyway.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He has no idea what like hitting, it's not like, there's no corporal punishment with his kids.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Don't shake. You take a deep breath and just, we're thanking you for leaving such a beautiful message for us. How are you doing today?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
i'm doing all right it's been a day but i'm doing all right this is you know a highlight of it definitely so okay we're happy to bring that to you absolutely absolutely uh as someone who lost their pops when he was young as well i was 10 my condolences on the passing of your father and i know it was a while ago but how how are you moving through and dealing and living with grief at present
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Did you have to step away? Yeah. OK.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
This is true. It's true. I bet if Jack didn't have Rebecca, he may have broke out the belt.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yes, ma'am. yeah absolutely yeah it is it is okay to not be okay yeah you can be okay with not being okay yes and that's okay
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It's a great song. Absolutely.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Did you watch the show solo? Was it anybody in the family or friends that you watched it with? Or was this just you in front of the TV with your Kleenex and wine and popcorn or whatever?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And I'm mad at that. Is it a situation for you, like you were saying that the show kind of helped you just normalize the fact that you weren't alone in sort of dealing with that grief or what have you. Was it at any point in time, did it feel lighter in watching the episodes? Like a lot of people would talk about how they would step away from the show because it made them cry too hard.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That is a hot take.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And sometimes we've had the conversation that through the tears, though, there was a lightning that could transpire. And I'm curious for you, was that your experience or was it just sort of overwhelmingly intense? Or like, how did the tears, if and when you did have them, leave you at the end?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That's beautiful.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
My mama loved me. I have nothing but love for my mama. It's just how she disciplined. But the modern day Black Pearsons do things in a different way. And I think Randall is just like, oh, he's saying to Beth later, did you see... how she just sort of backed away when she saw me approach. And he winds up telling her, everybody always tells me that things are gonna be difficult.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Oh, my God. So he's laid up for a minute.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Sorry to take you away from that, but I mean, also just happy to give you a second to catch your breath. That's a lot on your plate, ma'am.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Wait, I have a quick question before we let you go, because you said seven, 12 and 19. So you waited seven years and then you waited five years. Talk to me. Talk to me.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Truly, I have tears in my eyes. Everything that you're going through and you're able to emanate such positivity. And yeah, you just brought this nice little slice of joy to our day as well. It's so appreciated.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Jennifer, you're a survivor. You're a fighter. Like God bless you. God bless your children, your husband as he makes his way out of back surgery. Yes, we're sending all the well wishes for his quick recovery. All that good stuff. Thank you. Absolutely.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Oh, we love that. Thank you. Thanks for supporting. We're happy to accompany you on your way to work.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I'll see you too.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Take care, Jennifer. Bye. Bye-bye. Rock stars. I mean, that's like... So our fans are rock stars is basically what we're learning through this process. That's right. My goodness. Yeah.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Grieving both parents that are gone. I mean, it's just like, yeah. You never know what is going on in people's lives.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Never do. That's right. I feel like Jennifer is sort of the embodiment of the philosophy that I think undergirds the show. Difficult things will transpire.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Life continues to move forward. You try to make the most of what you have while you have it and to enjoy, to thoroughly experience each moment as it comes. Like this woman is living that. Thank you, Jennifer.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And when they say that, they really aren't that difficult. Whether it's tests in college, whether it's training for a marathon, what have you, I just do it and it happens. And I feel like this is the first thing that's actually going to be as difficult as people say that it's going to be. Because it's another person outside of his control.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Come on, 412- 501-3028. Anytime. Leave messages like this. We will call you back and we will just powwow because we love you. We love to hear from you. We think that it's emotional support for you. No, really. It's really for us. Selfishly. Totally.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
It truly is our favorite segment of the show for a reason.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I'm always blown away. I'm like, what are we going to get this week?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Blown away. That was amazing.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That concludes this episode of That Was Us.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
We'll see you next week.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Thanks for joining us, friends.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And so you see what she kind of represents for him in his life is like, he is necessarily going to have to relinquish what he thinks is control. in order to allow this woman to move at her own groove, at her own pace, at her own time.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah. Yeah. And so later in the episode, it's really sweet because Beth leaves a baby monitor in the girls' room, in Tess and Annie's room, just to make sure that they feel good. And she's like, you didn't even do a baby monitor when William came in. She's like, I didn't? She's like, bro, please, please believe I'm covering all your bases. You're just making moves, bringing people into my house.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
One of my favorites, played brilliantly by lyric Nicole Ross, who will be joining us later in the show, Deja.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I'm going to know what's happening. And she overhears a conversation when Deja walks into the girls and she's like, okay, who's in charge here? And she's like, well, you know, they make decisions together and everything. And then they look at each other and they're like, mom, right? Which is, my kids would probably say the exact same thing. That was pretty hilarious. You know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And they go like, so, you know, if you do something to get in trouble, what's gonna happen? That's what Deja says. And she's like, well, you know, they're really gonna talk to you. You get a really long talking to, and you're probably gonna lose iPad privileges. So she's like, y'all have iPads? And they're like, yeah. And she's like, this house is crazy.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
There's a scene between Annie and William that we flash back to. I completely forgot about this scene. I did too. And it's Faith and Ron Cephas Jones. And you catch William. Trying to sneak out. It's his first night. It's his first night. And he's sort of feeling uncomfortable and like, you know, I'm kind of a fish out of water, what have you.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Who seems like she's been there from the beginning, and it pretty much is the beginning. So from the beginning of season two,
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And she says, if you open that door, the alarm's going to go off. And he's like, well, I've slept in my own bed for such a long time and I'm just kind of feel- It's too quiet here. Yeah, it's quiet here and I just need something else. And she's like, I went to a sleepover one time and I got a little scared and my mom and dad had to come pick me up.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I like to think that if I had stayed, I might've actually had fun. And she says, you should stay.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
You might have fun, right? And she's so good in this scene. So good. She's a little baby. She's eight, nine. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? But acting her adorable little face off, Faith Herman.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
And you see her settle him and recognize fear. Yeah. And then she says to Deja when we cut back, she said, you can sleep in here if you're scared. Yeah. And Deja's like, I'm not scared.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
But yeah, I could stay in here. You know what I'm saying? I'll go ahead and stay in here. And then you cut to Beth and Randall hearing it over the baby monitor and sort of like allowing themselves to rest.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
she's a part of it and i will reiterate the fact that i did not know that deja's character was introduced this early yeah in the show it just was surprising re-watching you know absolutely there are always revelations for us and this was one for me like wow There she is.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, some relief. Can I also say I loved how Ron was like, your dad sure seems like the best kind of work friend ever, which was just like a little tiny detail that like Taylor, my husband and I were watching and we both giggled at like, hadn't been revealed yet, like who he really was. And I was like, they were really supposed to believe that this man was someone you worked with.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
I talked to Dan about it. I remember. And he's like, no, I want to give her something. And I think it's the right message to have someone comfort who seems like they should be the one to be comforted. But it could have been. Faith. Well, it was Faith. It could have been heiress. It could have been heiress. Yeah, absolutely. But I think there's something about the innocence of her. Yeah.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Because most of the time, Faith is strategically deployed as like the button of something. Sure. Right? Like she has like these great one-liners like throughout the course of the show that are just hysterical. And she's got great timing and everything. But this was a gorgeous, simple, sweet scene.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, and really turned the tide for William. He could have left.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He could have left.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Had that alarm not been set. Yeah, who knows what could have happened, but she helped put a stop to it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
She helped put a stop to it. What's the next storyline?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Let's jump into Kevin. Okay. On the set of his film.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Cannon. What's his name?
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
A young upstart.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He was really good.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He's going places.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
He's going places.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Now that's also a little nod to the fact that Milo Ventimiglia played Rocky's son. Yes. You know what I'm saying? So they're close in that kind of way.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Let's just jump right to that storyline, because you sort of see Randall trying to dot every I and cross every T in preparation for her coming to the house. It's been three weeks, I believe, since they've been approved to foster, and he's just sort of patiently been waiting. Patiently? Not patiently. Thank you very much. Absolutely not. He doesn't know how to be patient.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, there is like an electricity. I mean, there's something that he brings out in Chrissy, in Kate.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
That like is so delightful to watch.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Her first sort of interaction of just being starstruck and then she can't move and then Kevin lifts her arm up so she can shake his hand.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
So they have this wonderful interaction. She tells him that she has all of Rocky memorized and then proceeds to start at the beginning of the movie. And he's like, wow.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she also lets him know that like, you know, you were my dad's favorite. You were his hero. Like no matter how sick he was or sick we were, like we would put on one of your films and just like be transported and we would feel better immediately.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Even before Sly is introduced, Kate is in the trailer with Kevin and she's talking about how proud dad would be that this is happening.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
So there's a lot of Jack.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yes, and you get that sense. Just underlying. Right from the beginning, Kev diverts that conversation almost immediately. And you can tell he's not into talking about this. No. Right? So then Kate winds up telling all this stuff to Sly, and Kev is working on his lines. He's got a big monologue that he's working on. You see him working on it by himself.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Feels like he nailed it, like he's in the groove, he's in the zone, he's ready to go out, shoot this damn thing, right? And Sly and Kate are talking, tells Kevin, you got a great sister there, and she really cares about you and whatnot, and your old man sounds like he was a great guy. I know it must be tough, him not being here and whatnot.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Let's go ahead and shoot this thing, and we'll do this one for your dad, right? Yeah.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, he says something along the lines of memories that mean something and those that don't.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Oh, okay. I was like, I wrote down like a truncated version of it.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
Yeah, there's no big ones. In my experience, Kevin, there's no such thing as a long time ago. There's only memories that mean something and memories that don't.
That Was Us
It's Okay to Not Be Okay | "Déjà Vu" (S2E3) with special guest Lyric Ross
There we go. Yeah. Yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
What are their names? George and Sally? George and Sally. They're so good. Yeah. Like George and Sally made me dream about being an older couple. I was like, I want to have that level of playfulness and just familiarity. Like, I feel like those actors must've known each other, but if they didn't, man, did they just kill the idea that like they've been together forever?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Spot and Tango is offering an exclusive deal for our listeners. For a limited time, go to spotandtango.com slash TWU and use code TWU to get 50% off your first order. That's spotandtango.com slash TWU code TWU to get 50% off your first order. spotandtango.com slash TWU code TWU. They watch the Super Bowl. Folks are, he realizes everybody's gone, so he's gotta start cleaning up.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
You guys, that's right. You guys get, the party gets started, because you're over the table. Yep. Right? It starts to get a little hot. You can't have sex in the office. In the office, because this would be the good home office. That's not professional. So we go upstairs. They go upstairs, boots get knocked. Knocked boots. Boots are knocked. And then- Becca's asleep. She's asleep.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And then he's like, you know what? I guess I got to go straighten up the house. He also writes a note to Kevin who sort of just slipped out. He told you that he was leaving, but he didn't tell Jack that he was leaving after sort of like blowing up at him. He says, you know, if I don't talk to you, I love you. You owe us an apology, right? Right. That was like the note.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Goes down to the kitchen, putting up food. Sweeping the floor. Dishes in the dishwasher.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Randall comes in. How was the date, son? He's like, it was pretty great. And he says that he had his first kiss, which is so sweet. Because listen, Brown's a late bloomer. Brown was 15. Randall was 17 years old for his first kiss.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I think it's late. Is it?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, it was.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Marisol is perfect. Yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I have to go wash my face. I want you to go wash your face. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. First kiss Mandy Moore, please.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Okay, I'm gonna go. It was in Orlando. I'm gonna go.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And then you think about this.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
First kiss, sophomore year of high school. That's what I'm saying. I felt like I was late.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That's what he said. Look at you, look at that sly. I was 15 and I was at a party. And this dancing party, not really, like most parties where I went to school weren't meant for dancing. It was for people, listen, doing things that they weren't supposed to be doing at age 15 with regards to imbibement, right? So there's imbibing, et cetera.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
But having a good time, there's dancing, folks are grooving. And this one girl starts dancing with me. Her name is Tanya, right? And like, we're dancing close. It's fun. Things are percolating. We're having a good time. My friend who has the car, who has the Jeep that's gonna take us home, he's like, hey, you guys don't have all day. I gotta get out of here soon.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So he's gonna give everybody a ride home. So I'm sitting, he's giving me a ride home and she's giving her a ride home, right? And so I'm sitting in the front seat of the Jeep and she's sort of like massaging my shoulders.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Listen, we're about to get pretty much to that place.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
None at all.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It's about to be something like that. So we, he goes, he drops us at her house first. And as I'm walking her to the door, he goes, I got five minutes. That's all you got. And I was like, oh gosh. So I drop it off because she's going to invite me in. Right. And I was like, you know what? I can't let my man wait. Like I kind of got to get out of here. And she's like, you got to go.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And I was like, yeah. She's like, you got to go right now. And I'm like, yeah. And then the tongues.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Listen, I told you, imbibement had happened. So, like, you kind of go to, like, you skip steps to a certain extent.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Okay. So, listen.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So wet. messy, and so delightful. So delightful. It was just the best thing ever. Shout out, Tanya. Shout out, Tanya. I wound up, right? I don't even know if she knows that she was my first kiss, right? Right. But it was, I was on cloud nine. It's awesome. So that's my first kiss. You have to remember- I don't.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Okay. Was this on stage then?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Okay. How old?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So you guys were a couple years before.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Totally. Pony. Okay, that was a good little interlude of first kisses there. Jack finishes straightening things up. We flash back to George and Sally. And she's like, Sally's telling him, hey, George, we're going to get new things. We'll get a new place. Don't even worry about it.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
We got a bite on the house, especially after we have just heard Jack and Rebecca talking about they want to flip this house, right? So you think that this is the couple. This is the house that they're going to be flipping, what have you. So George winds up going to the garage and he's like, you know what? I just don't want things to just go.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
He wants to give something to somebody that will be of value, of use, right? So he winds up bringing a box across the street. He knocks on the door and we see young Jack and Rebecca getting their house together. Pre-kids, right? Yeah, she's pregnant. Yeah, she's pregnant with the kid. They're like, hey, hey, George. You know, they're like, hey, George. Do them all, do them all.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
What did George say? He's like, look, I got something here. I got this. I got this thing. Soul cooker. There you go.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
But he says, listen, it still works. A lot of good meals have come from this thing.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, it's not that bad. Why are you getting rid of it, George? It's like, I'm going to be dead soon. It still works. You got to jiggle the handle a little bit, but it still works.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That's when George got the first microwave. They got rid of the slow cooker just to zap all the nutrients out of the food. And then we see Jack is folding a towel, puts it down next to the slow cooker, and he turns the slow cooker off.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Right? So it's like, cool. And then you hear this thing. You got to jiggle the handle a little bit, et cetera. He leaves the kitchen. I don't know if he makes it all the way back up to the bedroom or what have you. I can't tell. But like a T-2000. You see like the light flicker on the slow cooker. It opens its eye. And then. catches on fire. And then the towel right next to it. In this episode?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yes. Yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I thought we just saw the little light. No, no, no. You see that. Then because the towel is next to it, the towel ignites. And then in that same episode, you see the curtains on the back of the kitchen. Start to go. Start to go.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So that's what happens in the past. Can we do Kotobi there? Sure. Yeah. Because this is one of the funnier openings, I think, to you guys. You're in bed on the computer. And then Kate walks into the bedroom and you hide the computer.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And she's like, what are you doing? You're like, nothing, nothing, don't worry about it. She's like, you're watching porn. You're like, no, not watching porn. She's like, what's your thing?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I love how casual. I'm not horny. The writers just write me this way. How casual she is. She's like, let's see it. Yeah, she's like, what are you into? What's the kink, big dog? Let's see if we can work this out. And you're like, no, it's not that. She winds up getting the computer. You relent. And it's puppies. Just pages and pages. Pet finder, right? What do you tell her?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
What's the reason that you're on it for? Masturbation. What are we talking about? No, here's the thing. This is my favorite part, is when our producers try not to laugh. They're just like, what is wrong with this guy?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It was a funny joke.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
What's wrong with you? That pushes the limits of what the brand of this is.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
But nobody's writing you now. I didn't.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And I go on. That's it. Zillow or what?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
There's also, like Jack said at the end of the last episode, like he wanted to start big three houses, right? And you're like, okay. And then he says like, well, maybe I don't just quit the job completely. He's going through the paper. Maybe I can start with a few flips and that'll be a good way to sort of ease my way into it. You know, kids are about to go off to college.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I hope I don't go too low. I'm going to say one seven.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Stop it.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Mine is games, mind games. Oh, you love like word games. You?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So you guys do it?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Do you try to make it to, like, queen bee? Or do you try to make it to genius? Oh, no.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, I could be doing something else.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah. Rye is no, like Rye is... Social media, like she's recently, she's in the midst of transitioning from X, but she TikToks hard. Oh, wow. She TikToks hard. Okay. And she doesn't, she shouldn't do it with any shame. Yeah. And then every once in a while, Andrew grabs her phone when she tries to get him to get off his phone. Uh-oh, gets in the algorithm. And looks up her screen time.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And then he says, so you want me to stop being on my phone? And he'll show like 23 hours of screen time because Ryan never turns her phone off.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
You don't?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
What I mean by off is she has something on her settings where if you flip it open- The screen never goes off. The screen never goes off. Got it. Right. So he's like, how dare you come at me for screen time? Nah, I'm not ashamed of it. I'm pretty good with it.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Fantasy shopping for dogs. He's thinking maybe a dog. Knows that it's a difficult thing for Kate, right? And so he's keeping it to himself. Kate sees that, you know, my husband really wants a dog. So let me see if I can get over whatever it is that's holding me back from this.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah. She goes to a shelter and she meets up with a guest that we're going to have on the show later on that I'm very excited to talk to, Miss Lena Waithe. Oh my gosh. The best. Who's just so cool. It feels like the perfect sort of cameo for her. You know what I'm saying? Because she's just hanging with dogs and she's so easy and laid back.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Maybe I'll just upend everything, right? And you're like, yeah. It's a good idea. Not so bad, right?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
We're actually cool.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
But there's also just like a natural sort of nonchalance and coolness that she has that balances with Kate's anxiety over everything that's going on, right? And so she thinks she has a dog in her mind and then she sees this dog off to the side. I gotta say, I'm not necessarily a pet person. Let me be, I have a dog.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It's a complicated relationship for us because I'm still learning how to be a pet person with the dog. But when I saw that dog, I was like, that dog's pretty cute. That's a cute dog. I could have a dog like that, right? And so you see Kate also be very much attracted to Audio, is his name. And they're in the room with Lena, like trying to finalize how they're gonna do the sale, et cetera.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And Lena has to leave for something. I gotta go grab something, I'll be right back. And Kate's just stroking the dog, petting the dog, and saying the whole time, this isn't gonna work. Like, I thought I was ready for something like this, but I'm just not. But she never stops not petting the dog. Her hand is on him the whole time.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And I was like, I don't know if your words and your actions are in synchronous, but she does get teary or whatnot. It looks like she's gonna leave and says, I'm sorry, I just can't do this. She comes home, she comes home to her man, and she tells him, like, look, I went to this pet shelter today thinking that, you know, maybe a dog would be the right thing.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
You remember, you say, I talk too much on this thing. No, you don't. It just dawned on me. I think I talk entirely too much on this podcast.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I appreciate that. You are. It's very sweet. But you were in the scene. You have a better perspective on it than myself.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah. And she says, come out into the hallway or whatnot. And I would like to say for a dog that has never been in a house... that I thank you for just staying still. No, listen. Talk to us a little bit, because I know a little bit of this. The old saying in Hollywood, babies and pets. Don't work with them. You can't really control them.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
We'll be right back with more That Was Us. I'm about to go on a trip with the family gang. We're going down under. It's going to be the first time that we as a family- You're talking about Australia? I'm talking about Australia. We as a family are going down under for the first time. I'm very, very excited about it.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I'm already planning everything, trying to figure out what we're going to do, if we're going to go see some crocodiles and kangaroos and all that kind of stuff. And we're also trying to figure out where to stay.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
You think so?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I like that.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Also, just thank you, Airbnb, for taking care of my girl, Mandy Moore. And as wonderful as it is to feel at home in someone else's home, Airbnb works both ways. If you've got a trip coming up, why not host your home on Airbnb while you're gone? It's a simple way to let someone else enjoy your space while you're off enjoying theirs. Plus, you get to earn some extra cash in the process.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Big three homes. Big three. This reminds me too, as I have a teenager in the house and a nine year old, that Jack and Rebecca were not, in this particular moment, if things would have gone according to plan, they don't get a chance to gradually become empty nesters. Right, all at once.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
You have dogs though.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I'm still learning how to like my dog.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So I had a dog growing up.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Similar. Much like Kate Pearson. To Kate Pearson.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And his name was Dutch. He was a rescue, half German Shepherd, half collie. love me some Dutch, right? And I remember acutely, while it wasn't the same way, I don't know, we don't know exactly what happened to the Pearson's dog back in the day because he's cool. But I remember Dutch passing away. He had developed arthritis.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
He was dragging a while and to the point where he actually wore a hole in his paw, what have you, and just things were going down. And I remember one day coming home and being like, guys, where's Dutch? Right? And I saw my parents look at each other because they had taken them to the Humane Society, I think the day before.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And there was a day as a kid where you just jumbled and I was like, I didn't see Dutch. And I was like, then now wait, Dutch isn't here again. Where's Dutch? And they're like, you know, had to put Dutch down. And so I think part of me learning how to like my dog is knowing, and we talked about this a little bit before, is that eventually they'll be gone. Yeah. I recently...
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
No, you said it. You said it, because I think we've mentioned this briefly before, right? Because it does prepare us with the eventuality of human passing that transpires in our life. If you've dealt with it to some degree with a pet before, then you have some level of what to expect. Understanding. Yeah, understanding.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Exactly. So I still think, though, that Brown
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Same way Kate does. And I don't get, I'm still not very close with the dog.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
All three of them have their own angsty version of teenage or angsty version of sort of like leaving and cleaving, separating, finding their own identity that is separate and distinct from their parents. Yes. Even though Randall still like probably like holds on like the tightest, but that you get, you don't get a chance to like, oh, one's gone. I still got these two. No, all at once.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Maybe he will. You just need to get in on this.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Love the dog.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
They love the dog. And they, so the dog is high energy. Yeah. I'll say the dog's name, but I usually refer to him as the dog.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yes, today, listen. Say his name. His name is Zion. That's right. His name is Zion. Okay. So Zion is a high energy dog. Yeah. Like a lion. As soon as you come into the house, jumping and jumping and all this sort of thing. And it's not necessarily my style. It reminds me at one point in time, this is funny.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
At one point in time, we had like a base camp PA on our show who was a very high energy individual. I can't believe this is where this is going.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, I'm just saying high energy. And sometimes when you have an early call and it's the first thing in the morning, that level of energy can be a little like, oh. Jarring. A little jarring. So Zion for me is similar to something like that. And so I've actually trained Zion. So he'll come home and he'll get excited. And he'll be like, he'll remember, oh, it's Sterling. So then he'll sit still.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Oh, buddy. Tail is like this. Can't control the tail. He'll get this. Can't train the tail. And then if I go to like pet him, to go pet him, he'll go like this. And then he'll be like.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And then he'll get scratches. That's right. He'll get scratches. You know what I'm saying? Oh, I love him. So I'm not malevolent. You know what I'm saying? But I was like, I had to actually show him. I was like, hey, I actually kind of need you to meet me where I am too. Halfway. You know what I'm saying? All right. So yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So yeah, we were talking about Kate. We got to get to Randall's storyline.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Randall and Beth, R&B real estate.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I'm so sorry. I can't.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I saw him pull back a little bit.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
He had a bite.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Like they're about to all at the same time. I'm so thankful that I don't have triplets. Same. You know what I'm saying? I already feel like, oh, when the first one's gone, that's going to be tough. But I still got this baby. And then when he's gone, that'll be tough. But at least I would have been able to prepare for it a little bit, you know? You guys, it's just going to be gone.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Can you do it again? They'll be like, your thing. Are you a doggy kiss person? No. You're not? No. Okay, see, it's funny, because like- Are you a juju? Yes, I'm a juju, but I'm not a- My community thinks that you guys all love doggie kisses.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I don't need your tongue in my mouth, dog. Oh, for sure.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
The two most iconic examples, which still make me laugh, the most is There's Something About Mary.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Right. That woman and that, I was like, I can't play that. I was like, I would've . Yeah, cringe. And then recently, Reynolds does it in Deadpool. With the ugliest dog in the world. It's not a cutie. No. And he goes, it's like they are, it's intense. Have you not seen? No. Yeah, those are two ones. And that's what makes black people think that you guys all like it, but you don't.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I'm so delighted to hear it. Listen, Sterling, we're not all like that. We're not all alike. First of all, how dare you? I'm so sorry to treat you as a model.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That's that storyline, right?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Randall and Beth buy this building, and they talk about how excited they are to sort of bring respectability and dignity to this place so that people get a chance to live in a building that they can be proud of, right? And Beth is encouraging Randall, like, don't get ahead of yourself. She knows what she's doing. Yeah. Let's take your time.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
She knows exactly how to do this. And she talks about we have to bring things up to code when she's addressing all the people. And then Garrett Morris just starts. Lloyd is just cracking all kinds of jokes and everything. And it talks about who's going to fix something in my place. And somebody's got a door that's not working. And Randall's like, I can fix that. Mm-hmm.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And Beth's looking at him like, it's just a door, you know, no big deal. My dad did this. And so everybody starts yelling out things that they need to fix. And he starts writing them down.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Kevin hasn't showed up yet. When does he show up? He's about to come in right after that. And she looks at him like, look, man, And he's like, I know what you're about to say. And they have this whole conversation about how he knows that, you know, I took a bit off more than I can chew, but I'm going to show you that I can do all this. And I didn't do more than that.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And she's like, well, if you already said it, then I'm going to go ahead and get out of here. Right. And this is one of my, this is one of my favorite improvs that I saw. Cause he's, I said like, all right, like four times in a row. All right. All right. All right.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That was funny. That made me laugh. Kev comes. He's there. Kev is looking off of that thing from the past about trying to find something to do. Stay busy.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Wait a minute. Is he also, do we see for Kev, because we can kind of do these at the same time, is this when he's going through his list of people that he needs to make amends with? Yes, to make amends too. Yeah. So he's made amends with me. He's made amends with mom, et cetera, et cetera. We don't see the whole list yet, right?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And as you see through the course of the episode, we stick through just like the past timeline, right? There is...
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
But he just, he comes to find his brother and he's like, oh, you're doing renovations? Like, perfect. I would love to be of assistance. How can I help? I got the door. Cool, cool, cool. He goes to do Don Lewis's, it's Don Lewis, right? It was her door. Fix it. And she says, there's a wall. That my husband put up and then he left. And so like, if I can knock this out, that would be great.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
He's like, you know, I'll knock out the wall. So Randall's like doing his repairs. There's the one thing, them walking down the hall.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
The slow motion gun show, which is the funny part about it is Justin is much bigger than me. Like, I'm a fit dude, and I own all my- I think Justin's an inch taller than I am. He's tall. The man is a big man. He's a big man, and he's got big arms. Yeah. So I was like, let me show how Randall feels when he's with his brother. And he looks over at me like, bro, please, what are you talking about?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So like Brown tries to bring all the sexy that he can to like tearing down a radiator and like plunging the toilet.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And like versus Don Lewis just pulls up a seat and just starts watching. And then like other neighbors come in and start watching. It's the big event. It's so funny. It's hysterical, right? So Randall thinks that he's fixed things. He's calling his wife. She's like, you know, I hate to tell you, I told you so. You know how Rome wasn't built in a day. Well, this building.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And then Lloyd is like, Randall, goes back in there. And we did have, I should say, there were roaches, right? I don't like roaches.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Roaches are gross.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That's right.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
There was, yeah, not as well trained as the dog at all. So then we have to evacuate the building. We had to tent this joint so we can get all these things out of here. But before we're able to get everybody out to the hotel, I got to find my brother because he's still in there. I say, Kev, we got to go, man. They're about to tent the building. He's like, yeah, just give me another 20 minutes.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I like to finish what I started. It gives me a sense of accomplishment, like get things done. And they start just having a nice little conversation about their dad and about what it was like for him. Kev is talking about, I remember dad doing similar things to sort of take his mind off of things, what have you. And I can't remember this conversation exactly. So if you remember tidbits, let me know.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
But the one thing that I made a note of is Randall was talking about, how weird it is to imagine himself as an old man, right? Because like we've now, reached a place in our lives where we've lived longer without him than we have with him. And I remember two things. Acutely, when I was about 21, 22, I was like, I've now lived half of my life without my dad. And like, how odd that is.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Then I remember turning 45, which is how old he was when he passed, and I was like, I knew when I was 10 that he was young. And then when I was the age that he was, and I was like, he was young, young. You know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And so the synchronicity of, again, I think part of it is being in a writer's room and then knowing a little bit about my dad, because like, there were just things that were so easy to drop into, right? Like even in parenting, I was like, oh, I got the first 10 years down. I know exactly how to do that because he did it and it was perfect, right? And now it's like, okay, now I'm the 13 year old.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I'm still like figuring it out. You know what I'm saying? The nine year old is like, oh, I still got another year. But it was a really lovely moment of these brothers bonding with each other. And even Kev saying like, I think you should start to picture it. Like you're going to be a really cool old guy. And he was talking about, even when he, so later he goes to the hotel
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
His wife comes in, she's like, you know, you know I've done this before, right? And he's like, yeah, I know. And if you had listened to me, I would have told you the first thing you got to do is like get something tender because if you start doing reconstruction and there's a bunch of roaches, then you're going to have a problem, right? He's like, I know. And then she flips the earlier scene.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
She's like, and then what you were going to say, you're going to apologize for this and you're going to try to do something to be real charming and get out of it, et cetera, et cetera. And I was like, it sounds way better when you say it than what I do, you know? And then they go, they have a little Randall, Beth, lovey-dovey movement. And then Garrett Morris Lloyd is like, get a room.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
What up, gang? Dramatic.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
He's like, what can I say, man? I love my wife. He's like, no, man, I need a room. He's like, all right, let me go handle that real quick. But the writers do...
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Like things that like the audience may not, and I don't even know if you clock it week to week, but when you watch it like together, they really string it together in such a lovely sort of way that like that thing that he's talking about, that there's gonna pay off to that.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Which is not easy to do. No. I'll say this, because we had, not too long ago, we had Isaac and Elizabeth on the show, our show runners and whatnot. I would talk to most of my artist friends and they would be like, you guys are really great. You guys are killing it. My friend Terrell Alvin McCraney, who won Oscar for Moonlight, he's like, the writing on your show is ridiculous.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And I was like, it really kind of is. Like there's the attention to detail, like listening to Isaac talk about like just little things, right? Because you address the universal through the specific. And these specific moments, even though you may not recognize that exact specific moment from your life, you recognize a very akin specific moment that makes you say like, oh.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah. And then Randall's happy because he's got a girlfriend. The little redhead girl's at the crib. He's pretty much in a great place, right? But let's do the Kate one because I think that's pretty interesting because Jack offers to record her. He's like, we can record it. We send in the whole thing. It's going to be fantastic. And she's like, no, that's like the last thing that I want.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It unlocks like everything.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It was Vera Herbert, right? For The Trip, which is episode 109, when we went to the cabin or what have you. And she won NAACP.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
She won both of those. And the Writers Guild Award. She won the Writers Guild and she won the NAACP Image Awards, which is funny because- Which is why you call her- I call her Black Vera. Sterling, is she black? She's not black. Okay.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
She does. She has one more than all the black writers that were on our show.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I would say so. To get a bit more granular about it, You have the latitude to discuss a myriad of options or topics when you're on a streamer or on pay cable, right? Because there's no sort of ratings thing that you have to adhere to in the same sort of way.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
We had 42 minutes and 30 seconds. 42, 30, every episode. Our scripts usually came in around 50, 52 pages, which made me, I was always gonna go, You know, because a page is a minute.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And then Dan does his alchemy. And you're like, how did you do that? It makes it happen. So to do 4230, to have to adhere to standards and practices and still come up with something that got the level of attention that we did critically, as well as popularly, There should have been something. Something.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
We love you, writers. Thank you very much for shepherding us.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah. Should we take a break? Should we come back with our girl? Lena. Wave. Ladies and gentlemen, we are back. We're very excited to be talking to our special guest, Miss Lena Waithe. What's going on, sis? Oh, man, we need live studio. What a family. How are you? Yes. Thunders applause. I'm so good.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I want to say this before we get into that, because we try to get all the cool people that we possibly can on this dadgum show. So it was a small time, but it was a good time, right? I'm mad that I didn't get a chance to work with you Personally, first and foremost, it was a bunch of dogs and my sister. That being said, right? I remember coming up to Lena when Master of None was on.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It was season two. Her episode was the Thanksgiving episode, right?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Okay. Thanksgiving is a big deal in the Pearson household as well. I watched this episode. First of all, I loved the show. Like the show was masterful, right? Agreed. Her episode... I remember coming up to you. I can't remember where we were, L-Dub. Party or something? It was a party or something. And I was like, and I said it politely, and I'll say it so that people understand.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And I'm like, oh, Katie, girl, you're absolutely beautiful. By the way, Script-wise, was Katie Girl ever scripted or is that just Milo?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I was like, Negro, this was the best episode of television this year. And she was like, oh, thanks. I was like, no, no, no, no. Negro, you must understand. Listen to me. I was like, I'm not playing around. This is legitimate, right?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And I think because I have an aunt and a cousin who are LGBTQ in my family, and I've seen how they had to deal with my grandmother and how there was love on the place of my grandmother, but also just sort of like, this is foreign to me. I can't understand this. So even though I love you and I want to be able to communicate to that, I'm still just sort of not understanding it.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And the way that Angela played it the way that you wrote it. It was so human and so full of all of the complexity that goes into a parent wanting to accept a child that is different from her and just trying to figure that out. And the child having grace for the parent to be in process, right? Yes, absolutely. Let me say this. At the Emmys that year.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
We'll get to you in a second. This is what I do.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That'll be the day, with a little bit of foreshadowing there, right? That's right. This will be the day. This is the day. This is the day.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It's pretty good. I love Katie Girl. Like, yeah, I love Katie Girl. That's it. I just wanted to say that. It was a good discovery and it stuck and I love it. She doesn't want that though. So she goes to rehearse her song In her room. In her room by herself. And she's just in the recorder, audio recorder, doing her thing. It's also called a microphone. I don't know.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So at the Emmys that year, I was like, you are going to win an Emmy. And when you do, I'm going to be the first person to stand up and clap.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
The Emmys were announcing for best writing for an episode of the show. Hers was obviously nominated. And they said her name. And I... I could not have been happier if it was on camera too. Happier. They cut to you. Wait, did they really? You're in. Yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It was, it was, I could not have been happier. for anybody.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It was a joyous moment. And so I say all that to just say, thank you for your art. Thank you for now gracing us with your presence on this podcast and for being a part of our show. I love you. I love you. I just wanted to say that.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It's happened. It's happened. Yeah. You know. Y'all know. We know. We know. So, okay. Let's get into This Is Us real quick. I guess we got to. Come on. That's why I'm here. This is why you're here. When you got the invitation to come and join us on our playground, what did you know about the show at that point? Had you seen any of it? Was it an immediate yes or what's the role?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
How did it come to you?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Tape cassette. I'm losing terms. But she's doing the song. She's doing her thing. She's chilling. And then Jack, trying to be as quiet as possible, is recording it. Yeah. Right?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That's his thing.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It's also, it's very Milo. Yeah. True. Who pops up on set and he's just got a camera in the back. He's like, hey, Sterl. Just taking shots. She sees in the mirror that he did it. And she's like, what is your problem? I told you not to do this. Like, I don't like it, right?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That's the Kudrow joint? Yes.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
That's right. That's right.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And then- Tell them, if you will, real quick, tell them what the first movie that you ever did was.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Watch this.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
She also, me and Lena were up for a voiceover campaign for AT&T. And I was there like, yeah, you made it to the final two, et cetera. And I was like, it's going to be a cash cow. I'm going to be making money off this joint forever.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It goes to LW. They just felt more relatable. I was like, God damn.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Not the episode, but it is the day and the precursor to... The episode. The episode, right? The day the audience would not...
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Can't relate to that. Wait, we should say something about the show. You working with Chrissy and the dogs.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Just tell us about the day.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Well, cause I wanna, if you guys remember the lines, let me know because she tells him like, I need you to stop saying that I'm beautiful and stuff, because that's not the, and I don't know if it's this episode or previous.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
dogs and I was it was what what more could I ask for this is awesome okay this was like one of the best conversations we could have we talked a little bit about this but it's really about just the fact that we got this woman on the show who we love and adore and appreciate right LW is there anything you want to say about what's going on in your world right now what people what's what's up and coming what you want people to look out for talk to us real quick
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I love it. Yes. Yes.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It's this episode. She's like, because that's not the way people relate to me. And it's not the way I see myself. So anytime you say it, it just makes me feel bad. So will you just stop? Yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Really?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
It is these moments of like, My little girl is not a little girl in the things. And he had a section like this in season one where he was trying to sort of like talk her up.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Especially when you're like 70. They're like the same age. Exactly, too.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
They're not working anymore. You're at the birthday party, right? And so this is a circling back to that again now. And just like, we just stop. Okay? Yeah. And it's almost like Jack doesn't have words. So he just has to... Stop. Yeah. Right? She winds up getting a hold of the videotape, maybe out of curiosity. I'm not sure exactly what prompts her to look at it, but she does.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Thank you for your art. Thank you for asking me to come on. It's the truth. Thank you. It's the truth. Enjoy London. Enjoy life. I can't wait for the play. Yeah, listen. And the podcast. If there's a part for you, boy. Yes. Holla at me.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Lena Waite, we love you, sister. Take care of yourself. I love y'all. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
She looks at the videotape and more important than seeing herself sing is that in the reflection, she can see her dad looking at her. Yeah. And Brown got a little teary on this one. Oh, yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Because my man is looking at this girl with pure, unadulterated love. Yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Beaming. Yeah. And so she comes back and she's asked, I wrote it down. I want to get it right. She says, don't stop.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Oh, it's really good.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
So by this time, the audience knows that we're going to be on after the Super Bowl, right? Which is the following week. Was it actually on? No, it was on Tuesday, obviously. It was Sunday. What have you. So then we had two episodes in that week. Is that how it went? I believe so, yes. We had Tuesday, then Sunday. Yes. Right. So now folks are getting, the pump has been primed. so to speak.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Andy saved the tapes.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Somehow.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Right.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Absolutely. So as you said, Kev now in the past. is applying to Allegheny. They're getting ready for the Super Bowl. I remember there's a conversation, Jack's showing him the entertainment center. Yeah, and he's nonplussed. And he's like, what is this big deal? And he's like, you know what, man? Like every time I feel like reaching for a drink, I just pick up a hammer instead, right? Stay busy.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Yeah, so Kev sort of clocks that, what have you. And you guys, I'm going to do something really strange. but I want to say something from the previous episode while we're talking about Lady 13. There's a moment when the two Pearson men, Jack and Kevin are putting on their suits and they're like doing their ties up or whatnot. And you see like Kev is kind of feeling good in the suit.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Like he actually looks good with his crutches and whatnot. And Jack is fixing them up. And I can't remember what's happening, but like, We're so used to seeing Logan just be so disdainful and dismissive, et cetera. But he sees his dad helping him look like a man and become a man. And he just says, thank you. And I want to say that because it was a moment that touched me.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
To where I'm not always shitting on him because he always seems like he's going through the worst things. And he is going through the worst time. And he's 17. And he has all these hormones rushing through his body. And he had this one perception of what his life was going to be. Because he gets to the Super Bowl. He goes, you guys don't understand.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I wasn't supposed to be here watching the Super Bowl like you guys. I was supposed to be in it. Right? And now my life... is shit, right? My girlfriend is going to the school of her dreams. All of the prospects that I had, I'm applying to. Mom is like, junior college isn't so bad. He's like, don't. Don't try.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
You know what I'm saying? And it's like Kate and Kevin are both going through that thing at the same time. You guys can try to say things and make it seem like we know what it is to a certain extent. We know. I'll put that in quotation marks. Let us live it to a certain extent.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
right then everybody sort of winds up sort of piecing out also it's important kate says after she has her moment with her dad she's like you know what actually my homie is having people over is it okay if i go over there cool cool cool cool cool kev's like i'm gonna go hang out with sophie you know we may watch we may not right like i don't even think they wind up watching it they're watching he then says hey i hear there's a party in the woods and he hears there's a party in the woods but like as all the things that they were doing to have this last
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
final Super Bowl together. Everybody's just sort of trickling out. Randall.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
At the end of the last episode, we saw the smoke detector battery was not present. That's right. We open up on this episode and there's this delightful elder couple in their garage talking about how they're about to sell their home, going through their things and saying like, you know what? We got to get rid of some of this stuff. We can't keep it all. We'll get a new place. We'll have new things.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Randall is as happy as a pig in slop. To see it the seventh time. But he's like, Dad, actually, I was thinking about taking Allison to the movies. We're going to go see Titanic. And he's like, haven't you seen it? He's like, I can't remember. They're like, she hasn't seen it. She's seen it seven times. She's seen it seven times. He's like, but we actually haven't gone on our first date.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
And he's like, go ahead, man. He's like, thanks, Dad. And he's gone. Just as happy as can be. And so it's just the two, it's just J and R, like by themselves, where their teenage kids are all like thinking about something completely different. But this beautiful moment transpires where you're trying to get him to eat. What was you trying to get him to eat?
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
You're trying to give him the corn. Like cornbread. He's like, I'm not really into it. He's like, I'm trying to do something sweet, dude. Just eat a corn muffin. Yeah. And he flips it open and you've circled something from the real estate section about a building or a house. An elder couple is leaving it and it's a bit of a renovation or what have you.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
Like, I just trying to be helpful like that. Like, you don't have to do this. She's like, I wouldn't do anything that I didn't want to do. Right? Yeah.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
I also think it's funny, as Dan was working on this show and having his wife be on the show, I feel like there's something sort of going on with him. He's like, can I work with my wife? Let's figure out how this works. Let me see how it works on the show.
That Was Us
A Change of Heart | "That'll Be The Day" (S2E13) | with special guest Lena Waithe
All right, we've all been there, gang. Standing in the pet food aisle, staring at a wall of bags, wondering what's actually in all that kibble. Spoiler alert. It's usually a bunch of processed stuff and fillers. That's why we've got to talk about Spot and Tango. And more specifically, their game-changing un-kibble.
That Was Us
Finding His Way | "Number Three" (S2E10)
The neighbors coming out, like, everything okay? I'm like, oh, bro, you weren't supposed to say that. Oh, God.
That Was Us
Finding His Way | "Number Three" (S2E10)
You're going to use them both in a group chat, right?
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
Well said. That's the crux of it. Yeah.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
Euthanizing. I love it. Affectionately. Yeah.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
A shark is eating Chris Sullivan.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
Jabberwocky. Lord have mercy. All right.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
That would make me happy. Let's go to the screen.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
Oh, wow. I stash on the left there.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty good.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
I'll buy that. She kind of looks like you. Yeah, absolutely.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
Please feel free to email us at thatwasuspod.gmail.com. Or if you want to call in, you can hit us at 412-501-3028. Sully has lost his mind. We love you. We'll see you next time. Bye, everyone. That was us!
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
Is that too hard? He's like, that's too much whining, bro. Wash my hair. Be cute and be quiet, right? What I wouldn't give to have hair to wash.
That Was Us
20/20 Vision | "The 20's" (S2E6) with special guest Zoe Hay
This guy. The actor who plays the director.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into Season 3, Episode 2 of Philadelphia Story. Rebecca searches for a new home while navigating the kids' looming college decisions. Kate begins her IVF journey, which sparks some family tension. Randall becomes more involved in his father's old community. And the entire Pearson family comes together for Kevin's big movie premiere.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I love that. That's awesome. KiwiCo kids are super creative, like building your own archery set to turn your backyard into a mini adventure zone. And it's not just fun, it's actually challenging in the best way. KiwiCo takes the guesswork out of keeping kids learning and engaged all summer.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
If you have an online presence at all, and let's be real, guys, who doesn't? Your personal data is out there. Delete.me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
There's so much we can't control online, but this feels like something I could do. The idea that anyone with a credit card can buy your info is honestly scary, but Delete Me is a real solution.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I'm curious for you, what do you recall about your first time being on set and playing those scenes with Mandy?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Before we get in trouble with our producing team, let's see if I can turn this into this thing because so he gets accepted to Howard. We know that he visited Howard and that he had a great experience. And I think for a character like Randall, who this felt unfamiliar to him, but familiar, right? It was not a part of his life, but he very much wanted it to be a part of his life.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So my man had a big smile on his face when he got that acceptance letter.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Left out.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
They are indeed, because so Randall gets his acceptance letter, then he's hugging his mom. Mom is in tears and she's crying, right? And Randall kind of clocks it that like she's having an interesting emotional response to this. Like, are you happy? And she's like, of course I am, darling. But happy tears. Kate comes in.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
She's like, you two get a room because everybody thinks that me and mama love each other inappropriately. And it's not true. I just want to be clear.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We just love each other.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It's true. That's a good point, Chris. Because then, Kate, and I clocked it immediately, and I was wondering how you guys felt about it. We see Kate come in, get a room, whatever, go straight to the Pop-Tarts, pops a Pop-Tart in. And hats off to hair and makeup, because you can see that they've started to put a little bit of weight on her.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And you see Randall clock it. And you see him waiting for mom to clock it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And she's like, doesn't. She's like, we're out of these, by the way. Hashtag pop tarts, brown sugar and cinnamon used to be my Mickey Ficky jam.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And let me say this. I don't know if we'll ever have them as a sponsor. And you guys can always edit this. It's about the worst thing you can put in your body. Yeah. On the planet.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Listen. I can't. I remember when they just came in a six-pack. It was three packets of two. I would finish it in a day. Yeah, get out of here.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Then they would make an eight-pack.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I'd finish it in a day.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Not only Pop-Tarts, I would come home from exercising, like have a great day of exercise, run six, seven miles, and make a pitcher of Kool-Aid.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It's a deep down body thirst. Anyways, this episode brought to you by multi-billion dollar. Nobody's going to sign up.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So in that storyline, they go to look at a house, right? That's the next thing that happens. And we hear Jack's voice as Rebecca's like walking through the house. And she's sort of having a silent conversation with Jack. Not so silent. She's kind of like- She's speaking out loud. She's talking to herself. She's talking to herself. And again. We're talking to him out loud.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Randall is sort of clocking it, right? And then they have this conversation about, well, we got to get a house and do something because, well, we know Randall's going to be gone.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Kate's going to go to Berkeley. And you don't say anything about Kevin. Kev's like, and my ass is going to be sitting here doing not a damn thing, right? Nobody says that, but he's sort of feeling bad.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
He is a little off. He's more than a little off because he's inebriated.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Right? He's drunk. And we'll make reference to that.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
The cast is off. The cast is off. We see Rebecca have a couple more conversations with herself, looking at the garden and everything. And then she mentioned something about growing something.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah, when have you eaten pesto, right? And this whole time, Randall's like, what's going on with you, right? So eventually they have a conversation. And if I missed anything in this, you guys let me know.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
She never sent the tape to Berkeley.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Right? Because Kev's, I mean, Randall's like, oh, you're going to be gone too in a second. So she's like, I don't know. I never even sent it in.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And it's like, oh. Like, brother is like, what's going, like, he feels sad. Like, you can see him feeling sad because it's like, I'm about to go do this great thing. And it seems like everybody else is kind of just an arrested development, right? Like, it stopped moving. So eventually there's a confrontation out in the garden where he says to you, like, where are you right now? Right.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Like you said that you were going to take care of this family and everything was going to move forward. But you're not like things are falling apart right now. And you said that they weren't going to fall apart. And I'm a little frustrated. Kate is eating. Right. Kev is drunk all the time. And you're not even like paying attention to any of this stuff. And she just sort of takes it on the chin.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You know, then they have a conversation a little bit later. And he apologizes. He says, I'm sorry for that. And she's like, bruh, you're right. And let me tell you something. Some days, it's just a struggle to get out of this motherfucking bed.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And she says, even when you see the flashback, she says, like... I love our house. Like it may not be perfect or whatever, but it's ours. You know what I'm saying? And again, that's the turn of the screw just being like, and they lost it, you know? So then is there anything else in that conversation between Randall and Rebecca that I need to make note of?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
think so okay because then quickly we see at the end of the episode randall's on the phone he's calling up the admissions office or whatever at at howard university says thank you so much for the acceptance um but unfortunately i'm gonna have to stay closer to home so thanks for that right and and what i wanted to sort of talk about especially because you're here and and um
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yvette is one of the first people that Randall calls. And she shares her enthusiasm and talks about making fried okra, which is a cultural thing. But personally, I do not like fried okra. I find it's kind of slimy even when you fry it. Do you enjoy fried okra?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It's one of my mom's favorite things. Really? We used to go to churches. Churches made fried okra. I remember. We were both from St. Louis. And that was always one of the things that she wanted to get. You guys familiar with okra?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Oh, so a little sweetness to go with it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Okay. It is hard to pull off.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But he shares that with you. And then does he come over to the house while you guys are... Does Randall come to the house? Mm-mm. No, he doesn't.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You just see him on the phone. But there was going to be a party. There was going to be a party.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We do do great phone calls.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We do great phone calls. But I'm curious, because one of the things, and it'll tie into the present day storyline for Randall as well.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Why were you nervous? You're a seasoned professional. Talk to me about that.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
and maybe i should talk about it after i talk about the no pretty much all the flashback that's all that's all the flashbacks i'll come back to in a second because there's something specific i want you to weigh into let's go to present day randall and um first day first week of school or so he's excited to take the girls out for fro yo he's typical over the top randall just goofy and silly over the top randall over the yeah
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Thank you. You want to chime in?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Percentage. Because I'll accept your perspective because you see me all the time. But you never watch the show. That's the hard part.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah. Yeah. And then like, what part of me is not him, would you say?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We did it with the first child for a bit. She tried to hire like a diaper service or whatnot. And I was just like, man, this is just... Raw doo-doo. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know how to get rid of it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Wait, there's a... But the genie's for diapers. There's something else.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That may be fairly accurate.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a lot of goof.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I'm not going to argue that. So anyway, he's being over the top, Randall.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
There's, in Australia, we just got back from Australia not too long, there's like gelaterias everywhere. I ate a lot. Yeah. It's delicious. Yeah. And I feel like even just sometimes outside of the country, like the ingredients are a little bit pure and it doesn't mess with your tummy the same way.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
They do.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That's in Illinois.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I'm coming for you. His two daughters... Both have other after school activities. Taylor Swift things. Somebody's got to do something else. But they're just free. Right? And he's trying to get a little, figure out what's going on with there. Like every time I ask you what's going on with school, you say it's just fine. And she's like, honestly, Randall, it's a lot of white people, bro.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And he's like, there's white people at this school? And she's like, ha ha ha.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
She misses her drill team. And so Randall goes back. He and Beth are hanging out. Beth has got some sort of proposal that she's got to do for her job. And it's still at this point in time, we don't know what Beth do. Yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But she's trying to figure it out. She's a CIA agent. Undercover. She's like on the Americans, like living with Randall. So Randall says, like, I'm going to go visit the property. And there's this rec center. And I know this woman who's got a young lady that I think Deja would get along with. So I'm going to make that happen, right? So he goes to the rec center. We meet this woman, Chi-Chi.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Because I think we meet Chi-Chi first. Do we meet Chi-Chi first? Yeah, when she has the baby. Yeah. And then the flashback to William. Shout out to our man, Ron Cephas Jones. I love seeing his sweet face. Seeing him, and we see this Nigerian woman coming off a bus with her baby, and he's like, can I help you out? And she's like, I got it. Don't worry about it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
She drops something, and she's very independent, like, no, just leave me alone. He looked really good in these episodes.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Was this post his procedures? Yes. Yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
There was health.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And it was sort of cool to see, like, because he's five years sober in that timeline or whatnot. It's like, oh, William looks good. You know what I'm saying? So we meet Chi Chi in the present, and Randall introduces Deja to this girl who is also one of the young ladies who auditioned for Deja.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Very, very cool. Very sweet young girl. And she goes with the drill team. And you can tell Deja feels at home. Right? She feels comfortable. Randall sits next to Chi-Chi. And he's like, why is there a mattress up next to the thing? Because of the hole in the wall. Covered a hole in the wall. Why is there a hole in the wall? Because of the busted pipe. Why is there a busted pipe?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Randall, I don't know why you're asking all these questions. Right. He's like, well, maybe I should go talk to somebody about it. She's like, if you want to, you can. He's like, well, maybe I will. She's like, okay. He's like, maybe I'll do it right now. She's like, okay. And he's like, I'm going to get up and go do it. Right? He goes to visit the councilman, finds Councilman Brown.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I don't know how this whole guest co-host thing is working out. The boss is here, and I'm like, you know.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
This is the first time we meet Councilman Brown, who's played by, what's Rob's last name? Somebody tell me his last name. Rob Morgan. Great actor.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
All right, Rob. Rob works. He's all over the place, right? So great actor, great dude, had a great time. And you see him and Randall sort of make this connection in the barbershop. He's very sort of polite and polished, and he's like, yeah, I know that place. Like, I had to almost agree to get it shut down or whatnot. Yeah. But now I said, I'm gonna see what I can do.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I'm gonna send a maintenance crew out there later today. Because Randall's just saying like, there's kids in the care and the place is just falling apart now. I wish they just had something better, right? He's like, I'll send a maintenance crew tonight. He's like, I'm gonna hold you to that. I'm gonna be there. And he's like, all right, now you do.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And the next thing you see is Randall hanging out late night because the sun has gone down. No maintenance crew, right? He mentions that there's like streetlights that are out, et cetera, holes in it. So Randall says, I'm going to do something. I'm going to get the ladder. He goes outside. He puts in a light bulb. Again, this is not like Sterling.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I'll say it before you even get to say it about me, okay? Where did he even get a municipal light bulb?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Proper street light. Randall, Randall, don't play.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Randall, don't play. Sterling, on the other hand, it will just be in darkness for a long, long time. I was like, there's other lights. Y'all can see. That's how I'll justify it. The light of the Lord? Hey, man. That is actually what he was saying. Hey, man. Twinkle, twinkle, little star.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah. You know what I find interesting about like what I recall from that episode and conversations that we've had, like we've been at parties with really lovely people who have adopted a white family that's adopted like black children, right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
y'all acting like you need electricity i can see perfectly fine orion there's three dots right there look in your heart look in your heart he puts it up and then he comes back and he's talking to chichi and he's like yo i'm gonna stay on him i put the light up like i'm do something and chichi's like randall like you know i knew your father let's go to the flashback of that again too because um
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
William was making some food. He hears a baby crying across the hall and he brings food over to the hall. So like, you know, I thought you guys might be hungry. And she's a little overwhelmed or whatnot. Just a single mom taking care of things. She says that they moved to this country fairly recently. Her husband passed away before they moved.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So she wound up coming as a single mother unintentionally. And William's like, can I give you something to eat? And she takes a bite of it. He's like, I didn't say it was good. You know what I'm saying? But it is nourishment. So just take it for what it is. And she offers to let him hold the baby. And there's a couple of things that I want to take special note of.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Because when COVID came, it was something that I'm sure, and I'm sure it's probably a little bit different for you, Mandy, because you had lots of babies all the time. But seeing a real baby on screen does something. Versus when you have the doll, you know what I'm saying? And you have to cover its head and make sure it's where.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But like when the real baby is there, the frame, the DP is always like, hey, make sure you keep that baby. That's an expensive baby. That's an expensive baby. And so folks know, just in case, there's always two babies on set. And in case one baby wows out all of a sudden. Yes, having a bad day. Is not having a good day.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Bring any other baby. But that baby was so sweet. And just looking up. And she gave him to William. And she said, you're a natural, but not. And you just see the magic happen of like, oh, here's a man who had to give up something. Yeah. You know what I mean?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And I will say this. Without even that history, I think one of the most generous things that can happen to a man is when a woman offers to let you hold her baby. Because you know that's her baby. You don't just give your baby to anybody. When somebody gives, especially a dude, because they'll pass off to women relatively quickly.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It's not.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I think COVID sort of shifted things a little bit in terms of germ consciousness and everything. But when somebody gives you their baby, it means there's a level of trust that's there. And it's just like, this is the most precious thing in the world. And both Brown and Chris love the babies. Because I can remember being on set before he was a father. And I was watching this dude hold a baby.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And I rolled up on him. I was like, you ready for one of these, ain't you? And he's like.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking about it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So I referenced all of that to say that Chi Chi winds up saying to Randall, like, you know, it was different with your, I see so much of you and your father, right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And on a couple of occasions, I want to say, but I remember being at a friend's party and us looking at the daughter's hair and sort of like, you don't remember this? And you were like, I wonder if I should say something about her hair to her parents.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah, yeah, your father and you. And he was one of us and was willing and wanting to do these things. But you get here and all you see is problems and you don't even sort of like take the time to get to know the people, et cetera. So you're not one of us, dude.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah, we're not our problems. And it's really interesting because, and I tie this back to Randall not making the decision to go to Howard and how most of his life is really defined by not only just being an adoptee and like what I have to do in order to be loved and accepted, wanted, et cetera, but his blackness, right? And is he doing enough for his community?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Is he doing too much for his community? And he winds up saying that when he gets to the premiere of the movie, you know, and he's just like, you know, it's always like not enough or too much. And I'm always just trying to figure out what the right calibration of that is, you know? And it makes me wonder, at the gathering last night, We have friends who went to Morehouse.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We have friends who go to Howard. We have friends who've gone to Spelman, whatever. And we're talking about these conversations about where to send our children eventually and options to think about, right? And I'm curious as to like, I think he would have fundamentally been a different person if he'd gone to Howard.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And because there would have been this immersion in community where you'll figure out after the course of four years, they're like, where exactly you fit in, right? And not left like for another lifetime of wondering, of wondering of like, how do folks see me? How do I see myself in terms of my relationship to my community and everything?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Totally. Totally. So that's the conclusion of that one, right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Because we end at the premiere of that. Did you want to say anything about that? I'm curious for you, right? Because you are such a beautiful lover of your culture, of your heritage, et cetera. Do you ever wonder if you had chosen Spellman, what differences would have been?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah, you were raised by Randall.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Do you know what I'm talking about?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Sure, sure, sure.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Because they had been so accustomed to be one of the few or one of the only in most of the environments that they'd been in before.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Because you said that too. And what did we mean by this? Like, tell them what you, tell them.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We did, because I was saying, I was like, you know, I thought everybody who was black at Stanford was going to be, like, had to have financial aid, was like a hustler, and sort of, like, achieved in that way to where Uncle Sam was going to help to foot the bill. And she's like, I thought everyone was going to be like me. And, like, their dads just paid for it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
What is your place?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And we're talking about people from the opposite side of the tracks, man.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
No, but still, I mean, like, does Yvette just chime in unsolicited?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
My experience was so different because I had to roll up on Arlene Brown and be like, Mama, you got to fill out this thing. It's called a FAFSA. And she's like, what do I sign? I was just telling her how much money you make. She's like, I don't make no money. I was like, well, just put that right there.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Really?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And you were like, we ain't going to get nothing.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That's exactly why we made the switch to Spot and Tango's Unkibble. And honestly, it's been a total upgrade.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It's also customized to your dog's exact needs based on their age, breed, weight, and activity level. And with the pre-measured scoop, there's no second guessing how much to serve.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Okay, I'm going to be honest with you guys right now. I struggle with giving gifts. Not that I don't want to give gifts. I just don't know what the right thing is. And with Mother's Day coming up, whether it's my mom or my wife, I have no idea what to do. Especially when they hit you with that classic, don't get me anything. But of course, I still want to give them something that feels special.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And as we all know too well, mother figures can come in many ways.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
They work directly with top factories using safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices. And they only use premium fabrics and finishes. That kind of transparency? We love to see it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Mandy, Chris, how the hell are you guys doing today? Well, how are you?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
No. I think he was always not going to go because I think a lot of what they based Randall and Beth off of is Sterling and Ryan. And, like, they'd heard, like, how Ryan and I met, you know, at a predominantly white institution of higher learning or whatnot.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And the financial aid office. Because Randall did get help.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We didn't have a whole lot. We didn't have a lot. We didn't have a whole lot, so Randall got help there. But so yeah, I think they based a lot of it off of us. Actually, right? Like, yeah. So wait, let's table that for now because I think one of the most interesting developments in this episode is Katobi. And one of the first things, I wanna talk about you for a little bit.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
One of the first things that we see is Toby's knee bouncing, right? And it's sort of reminiscent of Randall had a tremor at one point in time before he had his breakdown. He had a little tick. And like even your wife noticing, like, will you stop doing that with your knee or whatnot?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But what she doesn't know, that the audience knows, is that last week he took his medicine, threw it into the toilet, right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So talk a little bit about, like, this is new territory for us and Toby. What's it like for you in the plane?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Especially the caramel cream.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And then you see the needle and the vials fall down.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You guys are in the car headed to the premiere and Rebecca's very vocal and very vocal because she has a friend that went through it just last year, right? You want to talk a little bit about that one?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Really good writing. Really good writing.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It was amazing.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It's interesting, too.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
to the past when she's eating the Pop-Tarts and you sort of like clocked out or whatnot, you make a point of saying like, listen, this egg harvesting thing is not easy, and especially with someone who is your size.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And it's such an interesting thing because we all know it is a taboo to reference, but in terms of just health and caring about an individual, you just want that person to do everything they can to be safe. And healthy. So it's not even born out of anything. There's no shame in it or anything else. It's like, I want you to be alive as long as possible.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah, yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I mean, it's good and it's also like... When is the right time to do it? You know what I'm saying? In Rebecca's defense, it's like, I just found out this information. I have something to say about it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Getting ready for the premiere.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Kate hints that Kev's not going to have kids. Kate says in this conversation, once they all join Kev, is that I'm the only person that has an opportunity to continue dad's legacy.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
To pass on a piece of dad. And Kev's like, what, you think? She's like, come on, Kev. And he's like... And so we'll dovetail into that because Kev's sort of arc for this whole episode is like, what does it take to be taken seriously?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Well, he says, it's none of your business, Rebecca. This is something between me and my wife. We know the concerns and everything like that. So please, let's everybody stop talking about it. And he's like, I know it took too far. I'm going to take a walk.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You know what I'm saying? What a delight. As an actor, it's actually one of my favorite things.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So shooting it, give me a little bit about talking about the real estate before getting to step into that scene. What recollections do we have specifically?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Okay, okay. Well, we'll talk about how you factor into this particular episode as we weave through it, because there's going to be a tie-in that we'll come back to. But how does this episode start, gang? Who wants to take the top of it?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Right.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Remember when you yelled at my mom? Yeah. Well, before we even get to that part, there's a nice little conversation between Kate and Rebecca in which, I'm trying to remember the gist of it, Toby's late for the shot. Right. And basically. She needs her medication, her hormones. She needs her hormones. She needs to have it at a certain time on a regular basis. And Rebecca's like, well, I'll do it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And Kate's like, really? They go into the bathroom. She pulls up, shows a little thigh or whatnot. She's like, just right here or whatnot. Sure. Bex takes it, puts it in there. And she says, I think there's an apology. So it's like, I just want you to be happy. Like when you become a mom, you'll see, like all you want is what is best for your child. Like that's it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And I think we have a little bit of a flashback to you and young Kate on the couch as well. What happens in that scene?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And she says, it's been a hard time for all of us.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And then you eat a cookie. And it's an interesting, because it's like a show of solidarity. And it makes you question everything as a parent. Everything. Because you're like, here I am, I think I'm doing something good. Right? And then you look back on hindsight and you're like, did I do something good? And can it be both things at the same time? Do you know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Like, there's no right or wrong necessarily to it. It's just like, I'm doing the best that I know in this moment to be with my child. Right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
All right, we'll invite you back. When you're not talking about me, you're very insightful. Maybe it could just be just you.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Is that okay for you guys? You wind up giving the shot, and it's a beautiful moment because you're like, listen. In that moment, it's like... It's not maybe not the safest thing. It's maybe not a choice that I would make, but I'm respecting your life and I'm going to be of service. And I think both things are happening in the past and in the present in that way. You know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Just in a very different way.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
What is the thing that Kate's referencing?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Which is not technically true. Kev can too.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Where you're concerned. She's assuming that he's not going to have kids.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yes.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That's interesting.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Me or my brother. Me or my brother, yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
She's like, you're not going to have kids. What are you talking about? Which is a perfect segue, thank you, Ryan Michelle, for Kev's storyline, right? At the end of the last episode, we have a warning from Beth.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
this my cousin zoe will break you right and we see them at the beginning he's laid in bed uh no no sorry he's at the premiere and you see kate's having an emotional reaction to what's going on screen and you turn over and this is one of those moments for me mandy where you see jack is watching the the premiere too and like what how's jack doing this thing and then kev wakes up boom Right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So it's also just one more scene that I didn't know that Milo was in with like, you know, everybody else, right? And you see Kev sort of roll over. Zoe's listening to, he's interpreting a French documentarian or something for her thing. And he's just trying to be amorous and lovey and sort of just connected, you know? And he tells her he wants to invite her to the premiere.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And she's like, ah, that might be a bit too much. And he's like, yeah. And she says, I just want to keep it light and cash. And he's like, oh, totally. I'm the most cash dude. I wear cashmere. That's my thing. And she's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Right? So he plays it off. He plays, he's like, you know. I said, I'm getting a fever. He got a little jungle fever going on.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And she's trying to keep it cash. So he says, I'll take you to the airport. She's got to go to Chicago the next day. He's like, I'll take you to the airport. And she's like, nah, look, I'm just trying to keep it real mellow. He's like, okay. And then we see him waiting for everybody for the premiere. Hold on, I want to make sure I get this one right. Because I think this is an interesting storyline
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
There's two things that happen almost immediately. There is an envelope from Howard University, right? And she's like, rejection letters don't usually come in three pound packages, which is, can I tell you, this is non-applicable for the person who just decided to just start a career.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
for him that I think pays off later in the show. This idea of no one really taking him seriously.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That's what I'm saying.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
He responds to Kate like, what do you mean? I'm like, you're the only person that can pass on that. She says, are you serious? Yeah. And then he winds up telling this story to Randall at the premiere. Like there's a whole bunch of drama going on. Kate's thinking about doing IVF or whatnot. And Randall's like, oh, really?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Really freshly off of his whole idea of like, am I enough within my community to be of anything? And Kev's telling me, and Kate said, like, she's the only person who can pass on a piece of that. Like, what does she remember that? And you see Randall just stop.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
just stop as Kev keeps going on. And he's telling him, he's like, you know, I guess, is he talking to Randall when he says this thing about dad was the only person?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah. Yeah. Which is such a sad thought. Like, you know, the loss of Jack means something different to each one of us, to each one of, you know, the Pearson family, right?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Because I was Jack Pearson's boy. And now he's become the Manny. And he knows that people haven't been taking him serious as an actor. He got into this relationship with his ex-wife that he was very hopeful about, but then the idea of kids sort of freaked him out. So he's even questioning how serious he takes himself. You know what I mean? And will anybody else sort of see me in that way?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And this movie is a chance for him to be taken. This movie is an opportunity. Zoe is seeing him, I believe, on the red carpet being asked questions about, like, do you have anybody special with you here tonight? And he's like, no, just here with my family and everything else. And she sends a text saying, like, I get home from the airport. Like, pick me up at this time.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And so there's a reason to smile there. Like, maybe she's sort of coming around. Yeah. But then that frees on Randall and then Randall ultimately says, she's the only person that sees herself as being able to pass on a piece of dad. And like, my heart broke a little bit because that's not what she meant. She wasn't trying to throw shade, but that's really what he felt in it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So you got two brothers sort of questioning like, well, what am I, chopped liver? And she's sort of like, y'all ain't chopped liver, but like, I'm going through something myself. You know, we all got some shit.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But for everybody else who like did that whole college thing, what was it like when you received your acceptance letter?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Typical Pearsons.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I think we should do a fan segment. Is there anything else in terms of the end of this episode? No. No. I think we touched everything else. We should also thank Ryan Michelle. We'll keep her around for the fan segment.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You have wonderful insight when you're not talking about me.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And I appreciate it all a great deal. And actually, I love you, even though you treat me terribly. Stop saying actually.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
She's like, you're most of the goofy part of Randall, but the productive part, not so much. This has been We Don't Always Agree.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It is. It was actually a lot of fun. That's a really good... You're good at this. It's traje.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It was great to do together. And I think the biggest comment that I get is like, how are you guys... able to talk about that stuff. And we were saying this to each other the other day. We're 19 years in, and there's certain conversations, probably three, four years in, that we couldn't talk about without feeling like you were reliving it. But now it's almost like we have enough.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We've gotten to the other side of so many things that you can recount it and be like, you remember when... with distance and not feel like it's triggering something. You know what I mean?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yes.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We should. But for us, like 20 is the same year that we turn 50. So we have all of that to do. Or the same year that I turn 50. Not you.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You know what? Edit it out.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah. Dookie Blacks or whatever your name is.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Edit that out.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Keep it in. Let's do a fan segment. We'll be right back. Gang, here we are. You know what time it is. It is time for our fan segment. This time we're going to be talking about people's decisions surrounding cops.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yes. Did you get in everywhere you applied?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Let's hear our story.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You should listen to the podcast. It's cool. You would love this podcast. Like and subscribe. It starts right here. I was struck by Chris's comment following the chat about William's visions, referencing seeing a life that never was and that it was a positive glimpse at a future that never happened. I lost my mom at 17 in May of my senior year of high school.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Good for you.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That experience not only changed me, but the trajectory of my life. Prior to my mom getting sick, I had envisioned myself going to school at NYU, becoming either a journalist or author and living a busy, exciting life in NYC.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I did.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But it was such a thing because I actually got my acceptance letter on April 5th. I got it on my birthday. And I remember we were talking in school. They're like, if you get rejected, they give you this like a small envelope. But if you get accepted, it's like a big thing. Pack it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Let's give Noreen a call.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Hi, Noreen. How are you? Very good. Very good. I also want to let you know, besides Mandy, Chris, and myself, Sterling, my wife is joining us as a guest host, Ryan Michelle Bethea. So, Ryan, say hi to Noreen.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Your letter was exceptionally beautiful. Let me say first and foremost, condolences. I know it was a while ago, but what a difficult experience that must have been senior year of high school to lose the rock of your family.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Forever changed. But the way in which you sort of highlighted is that you're you being exactly where you're supposed to be. Like there is, you know, obviously a sense of loss, but like if things didn't play out the way that they did, you wouldn't be the individual that you are. And it seems that the individual that you are is pretty impressive.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And I remember seeing like the big, it was, I think it was Manila and it had Stanford on it and had like, maybe it had congratulations like going crossways on. And I was just like. Spoiler. It was a great day. It was a great day. Ryan. Ryan got in everywhere. And listen, tell them, tell Rye, tell everybody, our audience where you applied to school. Come on, Bert, nail them off. You know them.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You're very, very welcome.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Do you have, I'm curious because, I mean, in losing mom, in that miscarriage or whatnot, like what are the coping strategies that you found most helpful for you in terms of just processing and moving and living with grief?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We appreciate it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Noreen, thank you for sharing your soul with us. And your letter is gorgeous. And if you haven't, I want to read your second book too. That was my question.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
How old are your children? Absolutely.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
God bless you, Noreen. Wow.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Joseph Christian. It's that big Irish family. Can I call Maggie Peggy when I see her sometimes? Or do you just stick with Maggie? Because I like Peggy as the nickname.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Now that's a good name.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
God bless you, Noreen. Thank you for sharing with us again. We love you.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Take care.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Bye.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You know?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I didn't know if she had children or not after she had talked about the part. It made me just fill up a little bit more. Yeah. That's it. I just, yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Look at that, man. All right, listen. That's the fan segment. Like, that's the kind... Guys, I just... Listen.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We always get filled up probably more even than the fans. But knowing that the show... had that kind of impact for people to be able to share so much of themselves with us.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We were blessed to be a part of something like this that meant something to so many people. So I love you guys and thank you for doing this podcast. Can I ask a question? What's your question?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And was mad for the first two years.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
There you go.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That's an interesting question because where I would see me, I mean, I love the Mad Men's and the Breaking Bad's and Sopranos and all these other shows very much. And I guess you are right to some extent because that's just not Dan. You know, I think that's not what is in his heart to put out into the world. He is fundamentally Dan.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah. We're not talking down to the audience. That's, I think, his sort of superpower, Fogelman specifically, in that there's something that had a wide-ranging appeal for a very broad audience and still received sort of accolades from the industry as well. You know, it's usually sort of like either or, but they were able to sort of like bridge those things in a really lovely way.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It's so awesome. Real true story. The wife threw me a little birthday party last night.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So thank you for saying that.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But you went to... I was very similar to Christmas school.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
But what was the difference in terms of Stanford versus Harvard? I think that... And Spelman, which I think is going to tie into this episode quite clearly. Oh, yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
It was a get-together. A casual hang. A casual hang of sorts.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And while I was watching episodes and whatnot, she was straightening up the kitchen, doing all these wonderful things to keep our house in pristine order. For the record, I don't want to feign it. I do love you. I love you a great deal.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Did you visit all of these places?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
So wait, in terms of this episode too, because why Stanford then over Spelman?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Because of Sterling. But we didn't meet. When we visited school, they have something called Black Recruitment and Orientation Committee. Brock Weekend. Where they bring black students to school. But neither one of us went to Brock Weekend. I was doing all my son's senior year of high school and so couldn't make it to that weekend. And you had to miss it for something else. I was busy.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Jack and Jill is an African-American mother's organization where their children get together. It's a mother's group, but it's for their children and sort of for their social development to sort of augment the Black experience, especially if they tend to occupy predominantly white spaces to make sure they have a connection to culture that is also present in their lives. Got it.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
You wanted something different. I did. You wanted something sort of uncharted.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I got you.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
And something sunny.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Sunny's not bad.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
I'm telling you, one of my main things from St. Louis is I wanted either black people or sunshine. So I applied to two schools in DC. I applied to Howard and Georgetown. And I applied to USC, Claremont McKenna, and Stanford University. I was like, I'm going either way. I'm going to get these black people or I'm going to get some sunshine.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Quick question for you, because I know you've been doing this for such a long time. Was there ever any thought in your mind as to pursuing formal education concurrently with career? Or you're like, no, this is what I do.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yes, absolutely.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Did you feel... Older than what you were?
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
Yeah.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
That makes sense.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
She's not just here because she's my wife. She is a part of our This Is Us family. She plays Yvette, counselor to the Pearsons in the past. We meet her for the first time in episode 104 entitled The Pool. And they have Rebecca and Yvette have a wonderful sort of introduction to one another.
That Was Us
Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
We'll be right back with more That Was Us. Guys, remember how summers used to feel endless when we were kids? Long days, outdoor adventures, getting your hands dirty, building forts or exploring the backyard?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
But the overarching theme of this interaction, which if we want to stick with this one for a second, was really interesting to me because it is a... not often discussed angle on this situation. We've obviously already talked about Kate's insecurity around clothing, clothing size, trying on clothes, all these things. But what we come to find out through this whole miniature storyline
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
as it relates to the present day, is that she is a little self-sabotaging on this trip, which I can relate to. She has a dress that fits, but it's not good enough. She needs to try the next dress down.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Which doesn't fit, and then go, see? yeah see and it's this i have no value i have no value and it's an interesting as as as the as the quote unquote family of addicts conversation that was started in the in the previous episode it's an interesting thing that alcohol is not the problem food is not the problem these are solutions sure these are these solutions for people.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
I see what you're saying, yeah. They're like, this makes me feel better. Right. Doesn't work.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
It's dysfunctional. Yeah. But it's the solution. Sure. The real problem underneath all of these things is an addiction or an attachment to shame.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
People get it. People get so, they tie their personality around this thing. Yeah. And then they can't, they get so terrified that if they lose this thing.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Who am I? Yeah. I've heard comedians talk about it. Will I be funny without alcohol? Right. I've heard actors talk about it. Will I be effective without my trauma?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah. What happens if I'm musicians? Yeah. What if I'm happy?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And so they get so attached to destroying their life. Like drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever the thing is to create chaos so that I can be an artist. It's a dysfunctional attachment to self. And it comes from a core belief of... what you were saying, lack of value, low self-esteem. If I truly believe that I am worthless, then it makes it easier to believe that if I behave in a worthless fashion.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 2, Episode 12, titled Clooney. Kate goes wedding dress shopping with Madison. Kevin embraces sobriety and moves in with Rebecca. Randall digs into William's past. And the Pearsons go to the mall.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah, and so she looks beautiful in this dress. Yeah, she does. She hit, I mean, ready to go to the ball and she decides, but what if I try on a size five?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
That's right. And it's so interesting that these inner critics, these voices, they don't come from... always, don't come from Jack, don't really come from you.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
They come from those little moments at the pool where the girls draw a picture and she gets, and a little eight-year-old gets this image of a monster in her head and attaches it to who she is and then runs with it for 30 years.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
I mean, that's a good summation of their trip. I don't know how it gets, I don't remember how it gets resolved.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And can do a little something like that. I think she should sit in on, not just guest on the show, but like help us narrate an episode so that we can cross promote your other podcast too. I appreciate that. But let's also get her on the phone because if she remembers, she was invited to like the first round of recordings.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
It's another great example of essentially empathy in photo negative. It's the same thing that happened, what you talked about in the last episode with...
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Jack and Randall, about Randall talking about feeling unbalanced and Jack finding a way to not just sympathize, but empathize with him, even though it's like, all right, well, your experience as a young black man and my experience as a Vietnam veteran shouldn't be in your mind, but you find a way to connect and empathize.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
It's the same thing with the way Kate gets chaotic versus the way Madison gets chaotic.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
But they can empathize. Or at least maybe this is the first time that Kate really has a real understanding of the dysfunction that Madison is going through.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah. Another little peek at like a little dysfunction.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And she was like, I can't. She was busy. I'm busy. Boom. And then I think she was invited to the second round of recordings. And she's like, I don't feel like it. So Ryan, bottom of the barrel.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Randall shows up and Jack thinks it's going to be a ray of sunshine, but he's also wallowing.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Rebecca's into it. Rebecca's into the idea. So supportive. Yeah. You know what? Yeah, it's scary.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
He's like, I found this thing. Yes. And he's interrupting Beth at work. Yeah.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
This felt very much like me and Rachel. This felt like me and my wife. Rachel's constantly working on stuff and I'm constantly like, you're never going to believe it. And she's like, do you mind?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Oh. Oh. You mean gay? He's more bye. And then she goes, bye. Shuts the door. Hilarious.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yes. Yeah. I had a question about Garrett Morris. Go ahead. Because sometimes I show up to work and I don't look too far ahead and I don't know what's happening that day. Sure. And I look at the call sheet. Sure. And I'm like, no way. And we'll get this. Like I had a scene with an actor named Michael O'Neill. Okay. And I was like, No way. No way. Michael O'Neill's. Remember who I'm talking about?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
There's many seasons. I do. But was Garrett Moore, do you know he was coming? Or was that like- No. Was that a day of type? Just a day of like- You've got to be kidding me. Garrett Moore's? You've got to be kidding me. Totally.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Whether you're into Pilates, boxing, marathon prep, or just need a good stretch or meditation sesh, Peloton has a class for you. They've got something for every vibe, every goal, and all three of us look for different things in a workout, but we can always find it on Peloton.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And the class lengths are perfect. Whether you've got 20 minutes between meetings or just enough time to sneak in a quick workout while the kids are napping, Peloton fits right into your day.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah. Right? That actor, her name, I have it right here.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Kathy Moriarty. Yeah. Plays a super. Raging Bull. From Raging Bull.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah, we got beasts permeating the world of TIU, big dog.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And our producers have pointed out to us, which maybe wasn't even, I wasn't aware of it, is that every tenant in that building is a TV regular. Like every, the entire casting of that are TV regulars. So they all live in the subconscious of the audience.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yes. I mean, Rachel has started her own business. Yeah. But I have very little. I sit on the board of directors, but I stay out of it mostly. You know what I mean?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Like there's no space or separation. My life is a podcast.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
This seems to be one of the great misconceptions about how artists function is that they're always just kind of floating around.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
When you're 22. Sure. And you're sitting there and you've got no kids.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Right. Yeah. And we're all sitting there, I don't remember what happens to this cat. The one little ear? Do you think the one little ear was glued down? Or is that the way that cat came?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And all of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, this melody's in my head. And you just have time to like go sit at the piano.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And, and, and, oh God, let me, I just have to record this before it gets away from me.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
I have to get this idea before it flies away. It's being channeled through me. Once you, once being an artist becomes your job.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Right. There's like, no, no, no. Now it's office time. Yeah. Now I have office hours.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And I've heard, especially writers who do it alone, I've heard many, many writers who are like, from the hours of 9 a.m. to 12 p.m., I am in my office. And I sit in front of my computer, typewriter, whatever the thing is, and... I sit there. And if I write, I write. If I don't, I sit there.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Ass in the seat. And sometimes I'll just write garbage just so that I'm writing. But so that the process is in motion and there's a time when it has to happen. I was just saying, these trips back and forth to Toronto, I try to go a day early so that I have a day to look at my scripts, go over my things, make some choices, whatever, prepare. Because it's just not happening.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
I mean, we can go straight to that conversation between Kevin and Miguel in the cereal aisle. It's a really good one. Because it is. It's a really good one.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah, yeah. Good thing Rebecca was getting eggs or whatever.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Well, cause let's get back to the way that conversation wraps up in the supermarket.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
is miguel says to him i essentially all those things happen i am her husband but kevin i'm not going anywhere that's right and it was a gauntlet town and it but it was also it was a big moment for our audience yeah because they took it two different ways the gauntlet like you can't get rid of me but also kevin i'm here yeah yeah and i know your dad is not i know your dad went somewhere right yeah
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
He's in there getting it removed, hot towel at the end of the day.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Because, and it didn't even occur to me until he asked that question, that that was the problem that people were having.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
That was the question that people needed the answer to.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
It's not so much that he's in love with you. or that he married you.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
When did it start? It never occurred to me until Kevin asked the question. I was like, oh, that's why people have such an issue. They need to know the answer to this question.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Right. Yeah. He needed to be rough on Miguel so that the audience could eventually see that, like, okay, buddy, It's been going on long enough.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
You know what we should do, guys? What should we do? Let's do a kick-ass fan segment. I like that. We have a fan coming on the show who- Is also a friend of the pod. I know personally, yeah, friend of the pod. You've met her.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
I have not met her. But boy, does she have a story to tell. I've heard it. You two have not heard it.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
That is right. So for today's fan segment, we are talking to a fan and friend of the podcast, Olivia Allen, who will tell us how This Is Us inspired her mother to do something pretty amazing. It's a story she told me when I was on
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
podcast broad ideas um you two don't actually know the story so i am excited yeah for you to meet for the mystery olivia what up olivia oh hi guys i love that you don't know the story yeah i made sure not to tell them um so that you could so that you could tell us
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
So yes, I went on the podcast, on Broad Ideas with Olivia and Rachel Bilson. Okay. And we got to talking about the fact that that's not only had Olivia seen the show, but that her and her mom had kind of a really interesting story around the show.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
It was a perfect weird delivery too. I want to go to the mall.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
What's going on, people? How we doing today? I'm having a wonderful morning.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
That was how I responded when I heard the story. So this, what is his, can you tell us his first name? Steve. Steve. So Steve, with the direct purpose of trying to- Find you guys. To solve this mystery, got on 23andMe and just waited. And just waited for someone to click that button.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah. It's like the episode opens with a guy who invents a DNA service. And it's like, you know what I mean? Like the whole story is an episode of This Is Us. It totally is.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Do you have a relationship with him or is that just... Oh, totally.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
It was an active part of the California curriculum. I have two kids in California school.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah. So if you want to shake up your life, just go on that 23andMe app. It'll do it. Click connect with relatives. I've done it. Have you really? You found people? I mean, there's nothing like this. Did you find a brother? No, but there's definitely like, it goes down to like fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth cousins. Does it really?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
It's a long list of like people that you are genetically related to who, you know, you... would never know or there would be no reason you would know sure but but i this is this is the second story i've heard my next door neighbor has a story like this too i'm sure there's some crazy stories just a 23 no no a 23 and me story i gotcha i gotcha
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
And if that's not a reason to subscribe on YouTube so that you can see this pillow. That's the best pillow I've ever seen. Yep.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Really? You know, there are famous missions all up and down California that are from the Spanish.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
You've brought now two amazing stories to this podcast. Want to plug the podcast before we get out of here?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Please, please tune in to Broad Ideas with Rachel Belson and Olivia Allen.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
I mean, I can't even remember which one I did. But yeah, it was a lot of macaroni, a lot of lasagna noodles for those Spanish roofs.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
But I also noticed that Randall was the one sitting in front of the diary, putting it together. He's doing the whole thing. Doing the whole thing. And my mom was kind of the same way.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Well, let me tell you, last night in the evenings, Bear likes to rock out before bed. Hey, Dad, can we rock out? What does it look like? It looks like him up on the couch holding a ukulele. and me playing whatever rock song he's never heard before. So I give him like a new rock song. And last night I played him Smells Like Teen Spirit for the first time. Okay. And he lost his effer-loving mind.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah, it's true. Yeah, drama seems to need that flow. You need to have that lightness so that you can flow into these, be present in these moments. And in my experience, what you're talking about, like comedy... A lot less fun. Yeah. Because it's a lot more mathematic. It is. There are rhythms. There are things.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Well, I found it when I was in, we were in New York a couple summers ago doing a comedy. Yeah. I was doing a play. It was a comedy. And I thought, oh, this is going to be great. And I forgot. like how stressful a comedy is. Because drama just works. You just put it up and people look at it, but this is dramatic. Hopefully I'm feeling emotions with you.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
But if comedy starts failing, if everybody on stage isn't in rhythm.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yeah, if a joke gets missed, if the audience doesn't quite hear the punchline of a joke, then everyone's out of sync. It's like double Dutch. Absolutely. It takes you time to like get back into it. And it's terrifying. It is. It's terrifying. So yeah, our set was always very light. Yeah. And that definitely came from the top down too. I would say so.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Loved it. Loved it. And so this morning on the ride in, I re-listened to Nevermind, like front to back.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Perfect mom and dad fashion. Like, what are you guys laughing about?
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
So whether you're thinking of opening your home to someone looking for a peaceful retreat, a family getaway, or a special memory in the making, hosting an Airbnb is a way to make your space a part of their story. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Like, so excited to see you guys. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm amped up. He likes to rock out. Apparently. That's amazing. Apparently. And Aoife just sits there and head bangs. Yeah.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
I like that. Yeah. Where do you want to start with the mall? What do we have? We have three different situations.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
We have Randall who... who we've realized is pursuing a lady.
That Was Us
Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
Yes, we do. He stutter stops on a, we see a redhead. Yep. At like a little boutique. Like Randall's Charlie Brown. Yes. And then we have Kevin is with Jack. Correct. Buying a suit. They're both looking at suits. Correct. Because they both need suits.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
It's interesting because they kind of expand in that way. Kevin's is kind of just Kevin. Then this one is, because we're both parts of couples, right? So then we expand to Kate and Toby, and then it's sort of like Beth, Randall.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
They're making her list of questions that she wants to ask her OB so she doesn't forget anything. Yes, that's right. But you see... Genuine enthusiasm.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yes. Yes. Everybody in the Damon Pearson household is getting amped about this thing, right? So then.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
She goes to the restroom to do. Oh, she wants to measure something for the bathtub thing that they want to get to watch the baby. And you see Toby's listening from off camera. And off camera, we hear a thud. She yells Toby.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
She yells Toby. She yells Toby. And there's a thud thing before and yells Toby, right? Cut to the hospital, right? A lesser show would have had to explain.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Everything that had happened. But we see, and it's over, it's over montage-y, right? There's not like a direct, there's a little bit of talking.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Saying that like, well, you guys can try again. You were totally healthy, et cetera. And you just see two people in shock.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Right. And we as an audience, or let me say me as an audience start to feel like, okay, how, because the joy was just so palpable and exciting for me. And you're like, the rug being pulled feels all the more sort of dramatic. And you just hope that everybody is going to be okay. And that's what I was feeling of like, I hope they're gonna be okay.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
They go back to the house and I see Kate putting on makeup. Like she's getting dressed or something. She's got this red dress on. And here's what's happening.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
You get to stick around, big man. So we start off again with that montage of the home videos from when they're babies, seeing who's going to walk first. And it's interesting, though, because in other words, saying, come on, number two, come on. Do we see her walk or is she just kind of standing? She kind of stands. She's kind of standing.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah, having a little grief party. But it doesn't even... The way that you sort of put forward, it seems... generous and like, you know, we need a moment to process. But it doesn't sound like it's a pity party. It sounds like we collectively need a moment to just sort of deal with this thing. And she's like, no, I got the gig. And you know, if I cancel on them, they may not call me back again.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And you're like, are you serious? Like, it's barely been 12 hours. We just went through this thing. And she says, and this is something that I want to talk about. I went through it to be like, I lost the baby, right? I'm so curious. And Mandy, I'd love to ask you this question. When you are pregnant, and it is obviously you that is having the baby, do you enjoy hearing your husband say, we?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
versus I, do you have any feelings about it one way or the other?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah, you know, I'll say like, if I feel, my wife is a very particular person too. So let me be clear in saying that. And also let me preface, Ron and Michelle Bethea, I love you. But I feel like any time that I'll try to sort of like, try to be in partnership with her during those times, she'll be very clear. It's like, oh, are we pregnant, Sterling? Is that what we're doing right now?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And I'm like, Sorry. Like, you know, so I'm always sort of like. There was a little bit of that. Yeah, yeah. Always trying to find what the balance is through those moments.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
So Kate does go to sing. And it seems like it's going well. And then she sees this mother and daughter, black woman and her daughter. This is the beautiful montage that you were talking about earlier. This is the beautiful montage that is happening where we hear summertime going on. And so we don't hear Kate actually singing. We hear summertime. We hear young Kate.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And we see her seeing this mother and daughter. The mom just sort of smiling at her daughter. She's dancing and listening to the music and whatnot. And you see Kate's like, I can't take this, right? So she says, I got to get out of there. She walks out.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah, they sing. And so she decides to go for a walk and then she comes upon a buffet. And she's like, you know what? I'm going to go eat, right? And it's interesting because while I don't have the same issues as Kate with regards, but far be it for me to say that I have never emotionally ate. And it's interesting how it is. It's just all of a sudden you're like, it will make me feel better.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And I don't know if that's on purpose in terms of how they use the edit or if it was just like little baby just didn't feel like going nowhere.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
I don't have to think if I just keep putting something in my mouth.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
That's what I'm gonna do. Hands down. And so you see it filling up that plate. Now it's interesting because there's two different plates that she, she had one plate that was like that. And then it cuts to another plate in which I'm wondering, did she eat the first plate or is one plate supposed to be the same plate? And she ultimately walks away.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
I agree. I agree. She ultimately winds up walking away from the plate. Meanwhile, Tobias realizes that this bathtub, he's sitting at home by himself. You see him walk by the bathtub with the shower curtain. Ken does some gorgeous things here because we flash back a couple of times to 12 hours prior.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
and sort of like Kate in the bathroom at one point in time, reaching for like the shower and it falling and her falling down and it's quiet when it happens. And then you see Toby coming into the bathroom a little bit later on and sort of comforting her. It's all silent. I actually noticed it was a really quiet episode.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah, which makes sense, and it was very, very poignant, right? So, he's at home by himself, and he realizes, how do you realize that the thing is supposed to be coming to the house, the tub thing?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
This is the last thing that I need to come to the crib. So you go to the distro center of where it is and whatnot. I see that I've got this thing coming. I need to intercept this package before it gets to my house. My wife's had it really bad. And the guy's like, I don't know what to tell you, man. Like, I don't think it's here. We haven't sent it out yet. And he says, I can't help you.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And this is a really, I'm curious, how many times you got a chance to do this? in terms of the balance of it all. Because you can't come across like, I'm about to bash your motherfucking nose in. But also, I'm a man who needs something very much. And I am big.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
You know what I'm saying? So like, how many different takes did we go? Did we ever go hotter? Did we ever go under?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
But the guy was cool. You wind up walking through and you can't find the thing. And then it's just like, God, man, I'm going to go home. This thing is going to be delivered. It's going to bring up so much. And I'm always like, the banging on the steering wheel is such an actor thing. I hate it. That we all have to do at one point in time. And when you're younger, you'll do it with a fist. Yeah.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
But he was older and it was with an open hand. And I say this because you will jack your fist up so dead good.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And it was cool because then you're like, do you have a baby at home? He's like, no, but my sister is about to have a baby. And I'm like, do you like her?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Thanks. So you go to pick up your bride to be, cause you said that you were gonna pick her up from her music gig.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And she's not there. And it's interesting because I saw this from both perspectives simultaneously of her just needing a moment, leaving the two, the mom and the daughter that she had seen. And then remembering that you said that you were going to go get her knowing that your beloved just had a miscarriage and you wonder what her state of mind is and not being able to find her.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
So do you guys want to do sequential? Do you want to take the past storyline or the present? I always like doing the past. Yeah, let's do the past. Let's start in the past. Let's live in the past. Because we've seen in the past, there's a day when Coach from Pitt is coming over to the house to visit Kevin. In the first episode, number one, we saw Kate listening to headphones.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Both of those things, right? And so you wind up trying to find her. You can't find her. You guys, you call. She
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Oh, cool. Shout out to him. And you guys don't reconvene until you get back to the house. And you're like, where were you? And she's like, I took a walk. And that feels like completely and totally satisfactory from her perspective. But you're like, no. Yeah, yeah. I'm sitting here wondering where you are not knowing anything, you know?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Those moments in which you decide not to answer because you need time to yourself. Yeah. Like I understood her not answering and I understood him being upset for her not answering and not letting her know where she was. Yeah.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
But it sort of sets the table for what we were talking about earlier, them having it out. And you should take this because you kind of went through the whole thing. Talk to me about this scene.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
You have moments like that throughout. I think this is one of the strongest ones. Toby has this ability to articulate what he's feeling in the moment that I think most of us, as grown-ass people, hope to be able to achieve. Yeah, the writers gave him that. Yes, because this is the moment, again, when she circles down, you're acting like we went through something. It was my body.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Kate says, this is something that I went through. And you're like, look, I recognize it was your body. and I recognize this, but like to say that I wasn't a part of this, that something didn't, I'm feeling sad too. So whether or not it happened to my body, like you have to be okay with me being sad too and that I cared and I continue to care. We'll be right back with more, That Was Us.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
She's kind of sitting, chilling. And we see Randall filling out an application for Harvard, I believe. But he's about to go on a road trip with his dad.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Life can pull us in so many directions, kinda like our characters on This Is Us. And when things get hectic, finding time for yourself isn't always easy. That's why we love Peloton. Peloton has the convenient and varied instruction we all need to stay on track. You can find whatever you're looking for.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
If I wanna focus on upper body, there's upper body workouts, there's glutes and legs workouts, there's core workouts, right? You got boot camps, you have runs, you have hikes, biking, whatever it is, is there.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Some days, I want to challenge myself with a tough boot camp. Other days, I just need a 10-minute walk or a calming meditation. Pelotime gives you the ability to choose what you need, whether you're pushing yourself or taking it easy. And let's not forget the instructors. They are the best motivators out there. It's fun to imagine which instructors our characters would connect with.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Like Randall, who's always pushing himself, would probably love someone like Robin Arson. While Rebecca might go for a more soulful yoga session with Aditi Shah. Allow me to give a special shout out to my girl Jess Sims for the dope Sims 60 that she always brings the pain on. Adrian Williams with the Thunder 45. I love you guys.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
It's all about finding your push and your power, no matter what season of your life you're in. And with Peloton, you've got the variety and motivation to do it all. Find your push. Find your power. With Peloton at OnePeloton.com. And so it ends, not resolved, right? Like it's still sort of dangling at the end of it.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And we go to the next morning and Toby's already out of the house and he's left a note for Kate saying, needed some air, be right back, something like that. And...
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And this is when we dovetail to the past and Kate and Rebecca just had this sort of beautiful explanation about like what parenthood is and sort of like holding your arms open for your child to walk into if and when they need them, et cetera. And there's a knock at the door and you think Toby may have left his key and he's coming back and you open the door.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And this was one of the biggest cries Brown has had in this day. When my mama comes walking through the door,
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Mandy is, it was so beautiful because it was so simple. Like, it wasn't like you needed to ask what she needed because she called you on the phone earlier, I should say, and said, mama lost the baby. And you kept asking, I can't talk about it too much more. I love you. I'll talk to you later. Boom. Yeah.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And it's just like, Rebecca just said, I'm getting on the damn plane and making moves and you open the door and you just open your arms and you just hold your bed and she just- Crumbles. Melt. I know the microphone's blocking my face. She just melts. It touched me.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
To my core. So we move forward then from there and just her sort of talking, Kate talking to you about it and how she's feeling. And don't let me jump over anything. No, no. I feel like I took this away from Toby. And you talk about Kyle. Yeah. And what it was like to live through that loss and how the doctors asked you, you talk about it. I'm talking about this thing that you did.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
They, they different being mother daughter versus mother son or what's the, they different?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
So this is interesting. You're one of the few... You guys are two of the few people that I have in friend groups that have... at least one of each. A lot of my friends, we either have all boys or all girls, right? Which is sort of interesting in terms of how we work through the world as parents. But I'll say just as two boys that you had, they're so different.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
They're like completely their own sort of thing. And I don't have a little girl to sort of compare to. Sadist. You're gonna be Uncle Sterling. I'll be Uncle Sterling. But so from that conversation that you have,
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
No. No, no. But I also think like you came back, you needed some space to sort of clear your head so you didn't bring that energy to your lady. Sure. And you're expecting to have a moment alone with her and you're like, oh.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always so respectful though. I never saw him like do anything.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
There's a whole thing like, whatever you're trying to do, I'm team Kate. Yeah, I remember that.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
The thing that I remember from that moment, because I'm always wondering if Rebecca will read the room based upon previous encounters with Kate, right? And so as soon as you come in, she's like, I'm going to go around the corner to that coffee place because she knows that.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
These two people need to have a conversation, right? And what I remember then, and filling in any gaps or whatnot, you guys said like, we will try again, not immediately, but we will. And you see her smile. You see you smile. We go out to the shower curtain. We pick it out of the trash. And I was wondering, should we rinse this? But they just hang it right back up.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Side note, me and shower curtains. That thing, when the shower curtain sucks into your body, I have no more shower curtains in my house. But that's because I've reached a place in my life where I can afford not to have shower curtains in my house. You have a glass shower door. That sticking onto my body thing where I have to keep pushing it off to wash, not my favorite.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
From Kate's perspective, and we've come to find out that the tape that she's listening to is her audition for the Berklee School of Music. And she wound up doing Summertime. We don't know exactly what it is yet, but we come to, the lights go out and she asked the dog not to pee because the dog gets nervous very easily and then the dog pees. And so she has to clean the pee up, et cetera.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
So that's the end. That'll make the retread segment. That's the end of that episode with, again, cutting back to the final home video thing about we're about to see number three begin his walking journey.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, we're discussing episode 209, also entitled number two. And as a special guest, this episode focuses on Kate and we have in the house, Chrissy Metz.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
okay so we're we're talking about episode 209 and it's sort of the end of 208 we see kevin come see randall and kevin's about to tell something to his brother and we think he's about to say something about what's going on in his life and randall says to him oh man i already know kate lost the baby
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And I'm curious, cause there's been a whole buildup to this point of like how you've actually told Toby, please don't get your hopes up about this. Like I'm pregnant, but like it's a geriatric pregnancy. We don't know how it's gonna go. So until this child is actually out of my body, living in the world, I kind of need you to keep it down. Then Hootie and the Blow fished it.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And then he hoodie and a blowfish did, and there was all this excitement and enthusiasm. All the way up.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
That was good times. Question to you in terms of your recollection, if you can make yourself go back in time, like just sort of playing that sense of loss of not having to have the pregnancy go to fruition. Do you have any sort of memory of what it was like going through that?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah. I have a dear friend came out around this episode and around the same time I did a reading of a podcast from the New York Times when they talk about like true love stories. Oh, modern love. Modern love.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And it was a modern love on a woman who had had a miscarriage. And I don't know, like they chose my voice for this thing, because maybe it's from the husband's perspective. I can't remember exactly. But a female friend of mine reached out to me and she wound up telling me, who has two children, and the way her pregnancies went were miscarriage, child, miscarriage, child, miscarriage.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And she's like, how difficult and the shame that she felt for herself is like, is something wrong with me? Exactly what you're talking about. But like in terms of how often it is represented and how oftentimes that shame keeps you from putting it out into the world. But then just seeing that somebody else went through it and that It wasn't just me that this is something that happened.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Chrissy came back. She came back, which was always a pleasure. Justin hasn't been once. Chrissy's been twice. Not once, but Chrissy's been twice. That's true. Just saying. We talked about the miscarriage of the baby, obviously.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
We also, Tobe, Chris wound up admitting that there was a scene that Key would have redone, which was the banging on the car horn.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Quit banging on it. It's not that deep. Quit banging on it. We saw a couple sort of like going through something and finding their way back to each other. I think it was really lovely. And not just a couple, but a mother and a daughter.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Sort of from the past, having a little bit of friction and then finding one of my favorite moments of Mandy Moore walking through the door to hug her child in her time of need, melting my heart. That was this week's Retread with Peloton. Find your push, find your power with Peloton. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
It was weird the first time I saw it. And she's like, she's just, what are you doing to this dog?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah. And how we find out, you go up into the room after she leaves with the dog, right? And you just sort of rooting around a little bit, straighten up. Fact-finding mission that parents will go on from time to time. Believe me, as they get older, every once in a while, you're like... I need information. What's going on with this kid? You know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
You see the application, you see the tape, and you play the tape. And there's, guys, help me with this montage, because there's her singing over, and are we flashing back to the present?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
So we can come back to that, because we're sort of blocking it. But it was a really beautiful sort of montage, right? And also just this idea that like, oh, my daughter, It's singing again, you know what I'm saying? And how can I be of service and how can I help? Now, this is interesting, quick anecdote.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
My son, I go to, my oldest son, Andrew, he has two advisors and his two advisors are like the drama teachers at school. So the two advisors are. It's like an SNL sketch. They are heightened and explored. I love it. They are beautiful people. I love it. Right. And so they'll say like, you know, we'll have Andrew in class.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Cause for one of his electives is improv or something like that from last year. And they're like, Andrew's kind of good. Like he has some of the best ideas in improv that, that goes. And like, we try to encourage him to come and audition. And he's like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like Andrew's a jock. So the idea that he would do something like that.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
But it reminds me of this storyline because I talked to him and I said, hey man, I heard you're actually pretty good when it comes to like the theater games, et cetera, et cetera. And he's like, yeah, so? And he's like, was there anything that you would ever consider doing? And he said, point blank, I will never do the same thing as you. Wow. How does that make you feel? Not bad.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
He's like, not even will I tread along that path because I think that path leads to comparison. And the idea that I would ever have to be compared. It's like, Bronny James was okay to do it for some reason or another. But Bronny James will always be compared to the greatest basketball player who's ever played. It's unfortunate for him. You know what I'm saying? And it makes me think
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
But Kate keeping it from you, was it also just sort of like, listen, if it doesn't go my way, I don't have to discuss anything. Nobody knows about it. But if you in particular know about it and I fail, then there's this thing that exists now that I could have tamped.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
There's something to it, but I'm wondering like in terms of like when your mom is known for something.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Right. And you have a passion for that same thing. Like, do you keep it close or do you...
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
open yourself up to that and different people make different choices right yeah i mean clearly yeah makes one to sort of keep it to herself right then you wind up sort of at the football game then let me know if i'm missing anything in between i don't think so you guys are at the game and very sweetly just hand her 50 dollars and you're like for your application fee and she's like you went through my stuff and she's like look
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Yeah, I went through your stuff. I saw you were doing this thing. I wanted help, so here's the money. And you were so sweet. It's interesting, because I'm waiting, I was like, is Rebecca gonna say that wrong thing that makes it go? And she doesn't. And she does not. For once. At all. It was so sweet. I think you have a real shot. And I think it was really terrific. You know what I'm saying?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And I think you have a shot. And she says, thanks. So it's very cool. That happens right before Kev has his injury and she has to go call dad, et cetera. Is there anything with them once they get to the hospital from Kate's perspective?
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Happy to be here, sir. Thank you for having me. What an honor.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Well, because you talk about this whole thing And you have to fill it in about what parenting is and how, you know, you've seen how things were with me and my mom, and she was always sort of like closed off. And I always just wanted to be open and available to you as a mom, have my arms open so when you need them, I'm here. You can fall into them. You can fall into them.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
And sometimes you may feel like as if you won't, but my job as a mom is to just keep the arms open for when you are ready, right? And it's such a sweet and thoughtful thing. And I want to connect it back to- We will.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Tommy T nailed the tough part as a parent. You always want to give it. whether they want it or not. And you have to learn how to just sort of like, I'm here. And not get in your feelings about whether or not they're looking for you or not.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
When you know that you can fall back to that shelter, right? It gives you the freedom to kind of spread your wings and become your individual.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
So my kids have been going on and on about where they want to go for spring break this year. Beaches, road trips, all the fun stuff. Maybe go on a ski trip. Maybe go to an amusement park. Who knows? It's got me thinking about how we can make the most of our time away and even our home while we're gone.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Families, friends, even big groups are looking for a home base where they can come together. Your place could be just what they're looking for. It's comfortable, personal, and way better than being scattered across hotel rooms.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. This year, there's nothing holding you back from loving your hair again. Hair is so much more than what you see on the surface. It's a reflection of what's happening inside. Let Nutrafol target the key root causes of your thinning hair and help you grow stronger, healthier strands from within.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Thinning hair is different for men and women, so a one size fits all approach to hair growth doesn't cut it. Nutrafol has multiple formulas for men and women that are tailored to different life stages, such as postpartum or menopause, and different lifestyle factors, such as a plant-based lifestyle, so you can get just what you need.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Well, many supplements rely solely on ingredient studies. Nutrafol clinically tests final formulations to ensure their efficacy. In a clinical study, 72% of men saw more scalp coverage after taking Nutrafol Men Hair Growth Supplement for six months, and 68% of women saw improved hair growth after taking Nutrafol Women Hair Growth Supplement for six months.
That Was Us
Hard Truths | "Number Two" (S2E9)
Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TWU.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
Like it isn't quite appropriate, but he's also like, I need accountability. Straight white male privilege way possible.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
Method Man got cut out of that movie. Well, yes.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
It wasn't because of anything you did.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
Have you been cut? No, I don't get cut.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
My shit don't get cut.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
That's just good TV blocking.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
With you either? They didn't cut any of my stuff.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
It's holding from here to here.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
Absolutely. Absolutely. And then Kate stands up. Yes. And makes it a whole new situation.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
That's right. Well.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
You said it in the intro, Manny. Some of these are spicy.
That Was Us
Kate and Toby's Bachelor & Bachelorette Parties | "Vegas, Baby" (S2E16)
Especially since Madison became so boring.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
all right episode 110 i should be over out of butterflies i'm into you you're following you sounded good though but you followed me i want you to stand and what's so wrong about that you do the harmony that we just did i should be you just sing the song
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And he could have probably just walked off the field, started puking off the field. But it makes it so much funnier that he just decided to just embarrass himself on the field. Yeah, really... It's just like, really?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
By the way, he's laying like this. Really demeaning is what it was. But he was just like, I'm going to roll with this. Yeah, really funny. I'm going to make a scene here. Really, really funny. Do I sneak in a rook? My rook is just a new cologne I got. I actually re-upped this guy from the wedding. He's just a YSL. Does it smell good?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It's a bonus Epi. It is fun, and I'm excited to keep doing it. But those will be on Friday, and it'll be standard on Monday. standard on Wednesday.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
smells really good i kind of want to i'll have sarah bring him down i'll text around how to bring him down smells you'll be like that smells good that's good that's what you wanted but yeah i didn't know that i it was the same one i got for my wedding but it is did you go to like a sephora and like try them out i did i did it at nordstrom's kind of by your crib did you did you do a taste test i did a taste test oh really yeah but i was like this smells really good did they hit you with the nuts what does that mean uh or the beans or something oh did they hit you with the nuts
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I don't know what you're saying. Or the beans or something. I did the paper and you spray it on and you sniff it. But in between, don't they have like a chaser? Oh, that'd be cool to have a chaser. Because that's my issue with taste testing these colognes. I taste tested that one and said I'm getting it. So I didn't have any fatigue.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
and then you you smell one and you're by the end of it you're like i don't even i'm lost it i actually because you're seven deep i have a splitting headache right now yeah yeah yeah it's strong i want to get out of here i don't care what i'm gonna get 100 not getting anything and that's it i want to go home now yeah i want to go home now here's sarah go ahead and uh just spray it in zach's direction just throw it so the camera doesn't oh yeah yeah you could toss it catch that ball won't miss i've never dropped catch the ball good catch yeah just spray that in the air
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Smells good.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
A little reminiscent of yours. I do like that a lot. That you are retired. But yeah, we got YSL. I'll be spraying the fuck out of it. YSL L apostrophe H-O-M-M-E. El Homie. El Homie. Yeah, I love a good cologne.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Colognes rock, man. I'm a little conflicted on being a cologne collector or having a signature scent. Like, I kind of want to just have a bunch of these. Yeah, well, here's the thing. It's like, If I find one that smells better, I'm going to get that one, but I'm not going to collect. Yeah, because I thought it'd be really cool to collect different ones, but that doesn't make sense.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Um, we got MVL. We wrote, confess questions out of the day. Yep. We're going to UFC. Yep. And I'll just start with MV and most, uh, MVBDG. Just, just don't know.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
100%.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Not gum. Not gum. It doesn't say that. This is a mint. These are neural mints. No, but try to suck on it. Gum. Gum. But then it's... There's nothing gum about it. Did you... Am I supposed to swallow it? I don't f***ing know, dude. That's why I'm like... What did you do?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And I just swallowed it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I don't... ADMG is a caffeine going straight down the gullet right now. That's going to be nuts. Dude, I don't get it. Did you get a rough from... No, I didn't feel anything. I'm coming off a C4. I don't know if I should be doing this. I might have a heart attack. I didn't feel anything when I had it. So it's not gum. Is that the neuro gum? So here's the thing.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It says, do not use if packet is torn or broken. And it's torn right there. So I think maybe that's why it's not gumming. I don't know, dude. That's so that's definitely not, there's not a neuro mint variant. I mean, it says refreshing mint. Yeah. So it's right there. I thought that that was the flavor. It's called NeuroGum. I looked up NeuroGum on Amazon, bought it. That's very confusing.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And also, if you suck on it, it's not a mint. It's not a mint. I don't know what it is. It's bullshit. It's like runts, that candy. It sucks. I don't think it sucks. It sucks, dude. Is your mouth getting sudsy right now? It is. I don't know what to do. Do I swallow it? I swallowed it. So you swallowed two of them. Yeah. I've done it a couple of times. I never felt anything.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Zach got us UFC ticks. Clap it up. Let's fucking go. Um, Usually we find cool pockets. Never quite found a pocket. We didn't find it there. But yeah, we're going to UFC, watching Poetan. Justin Gaethje also fighting. Man, I wish it was against Dan Hooker, but that's okay. Dan Hooker, Dustin Poirier, if you want to just watch old fights, is maybe my favorite fight in UFC history. Dan Hooker?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Uh, I did it today before we filmed. I think maybe I could feel a caffeine kick.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That's supposed to make your, your mind like sharper, but that comes stinks this food. Oh, so you got the wrong thing.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
There's so I'm on neuro energy and focus gum energy and focus mints. Yeah, but these aren't mints. I'll mint. I'll mint. I mean, but if that's going to be something, that's a mint. Okay, but I'll mint. I'll mint. I'll mint. I don't give a fuck. So NeuroGum. Okay, what does it say on the upper left?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Q-M-I-C-I. Okay, I don't think we got either of the right one. So this is what... Oh, this is a knockoff. Somebody needs to get sued. Somebody needs to get sued. So we got the wrong ones. We're going to hold judgment. Yeah, we're going to hold... I hope it's gum. I really hope that's gum. That's gum. That's a knockoff. Well, I'm pissed that I got this. I got to, like, wash it down.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Refreshing mint. What else is it supposed to be? It's supposed to be in there. Hold on. This is like the Mandela effect. It's a rip. I just read it as refreshing mint. Look at the word refreshing. Peepfreshing? We should not be eating this. Does that say peepfreshing? It says pepfreshing. I wish I didn't eat those. Well, I've eaten them, so it's not going to like... And you didn't die or anything?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I didn't die. Did you eat two in one sitting? Yeah, but...
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
dude i don't feel good i'm scared that's that sorry um that's crazy sorry that did that segment didn't go that didn't go how i thought it was gonna so that's a crazy knockoff product what the and it's crazy that i'm refreshing is the craziest thing refreshing like they just instead of ours they put peas that's insane all right um don't get that we should try we should try regular neuro gun though don't get that i might be compromised physically forever
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
dude i i'm so into the neuro gum idea though i am too i did caffeine mints once just like imagine if like before we pod or like we have a somebody on like we just it's just like you just chew the gum a little bit you get a little like a little rush a little sharpen a little clarity yeah like i would love that i want to know what's in it is it like cbd vibes i could see that being part of the vibe who knows but i ever smoke a cbd joint no i didn't know that was a thing i did i have
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
it just used nothing happens no you just get a little more relaxed oh that's cool and i wanted it to like be like i was smoking weed but i wasn't oh that's cool yeah it's kind of fun i would do that i would actually i would i like i'll pick a couple up we can do it let's do it on the pod yeah we should these guys really change we should yeah yeah um i don't have a confession so you can go confession
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Bullshit. F*** you guys. F*** American Express. Hate them. Wow. Hate them. Wow. Unfreeze me. Unfreeze me.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Unhand me. It takes you a lot to say that about a brand. I just, I can't believe what happened with those guys. Yeah. It's crazy.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It sucks.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
They're like, we got these. They're awesome though.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, I would do the same thing.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Was it really bad? I think it was like vegan or something.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
You should have said I'm not vegan. I know, but they were just like, they were just really nice. And they seemed pumped on the product.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Versus Dustin Poirier, yeah. Yeah, I'm not even familiar with his game. I don't know if I'm... It's got to be Hooker. H-O-O-K-E-R. Yeah, it's got to be Hooker. God, I feel like that's as Hooker as it gets.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
yeah but I mean they're there so I'll just like eat them but like I don't it was just like damn that's I've been there I remember I did that with like I was going to Orange Theory and there was like they wanted me to like fucking sign up on a list for something and like pay I don't even know what it was it was like a donation yeah you have to do it and I spent like 30 minutes like signing up oh shit you know damn it's just how it is you gotta do that
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, I mean, if you're a salesman, it's kind of easy if you get the right guy. If you get the right guy, I think most people are just like, no. But also, some people are just like, yes, for no reason. Because they're too nice, yeah. They got you on four tuna sammies that you didn't want. Should we go stat of the day?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I'm only going to give you one life because you could get this. What's at stake today? If you get it right. Let's do one. You start in choke. Rear naked choke. 30 seconds to tap. So Zach gets to start in choke position. I have 30 seconds. And I have to scramble? Well, you could tap. Okay. I could just tap. Or you choke me out. I don't think you'll tap. I think you, I don't tap.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So he'll either choke me out or I'll escape. Can I escape? And then like grapple 30 seconds or 30 seconds.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah. But yeah, so... So where's that guy from? He's got a British accent. That's sick.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And if you get on the loose, I'd take your back. It's fair game. And I could ground a pound. You. All right. Yeah. You would get to ground. All right. So 30 seconds of action, essentially. If I start with a severe advantage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you have a back and you have the choking.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And you get it in like deep, right? Yeah, you start in deep, and you've got to scramble out. All right. You only got one life. The most games won in the history of quarterbacks. Which quarterbacks have won the most games in history? Thom Brady. Thom Brady is in the one. And I'm going to give you the eight because it's Earl Morale, and I don't know who that is. I mean, we've done this.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
We've done this for sure. Peyton Manning. Three. Let's think of who played for a long time. Ben Ralfesberger. Ben Ralfesberger is in the five. I'm trying to think of just... You only have one life. Yeah, that sucks that I only have one life. Drew Brees played for a while. Drew Brees. In the four. Wow. Wow, Drew. Good for Drew. Let's go Brett Favreau. In the deuce. Aaron Rodgers. In the six.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I wish I had a British accent. Yeah, me too. Me too. I think I ran an Australian accent for like a year. It didn't really stick.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Oh, here we go. And just like that, he's three away from a rear naked choke, 30 seconds of UFC action. 30 seconds of mixed martial arts. Elway. Seven. Here we go. You might just have this in your bank just because we've done it before. No, I don't. But like, it's also like... These are where... Yeah. In the night. Yeah. Um, what do you think Joe Montana? That's going to do it. Oh, thank God.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Who was it? Rivers snuck into the dude. I thought about Philip Rivers cause I thought about big Ben. Thank God. Damn it. Thank God. All right. That's that shit, dude.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That was, that was a really close call. It was spooky. Um, all right. Do you have any news other than like the Oscars? Like our boy, Chalamet got snubbed.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I watched the end of it. I watched that. I watched that guy's speech when he cut the music off and shit. It was a good speech, I thought, actually. By the way, if you win an Oscar, I feel like you have to give a motivational speech.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So maybe when you... So you were like rebranding. Because I was like, okay, I could rebrand myself.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
yeah you should because you have like such a good it's so like you are the man oh yeah you just so like you just won an oscar so you get whatever you want off and it's got meaning i wouldn't go up there and just thank people yeah i know like i think like family friends yeah director and then get in your bag and then just be like and if you want if you like are struggling an oscar yeah like you're the you're him i agree i agree um yeah but i can't believe shellamators didn't win
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
yeah he didn't also like the movies that win I've never it's always like I haven't seen them and they weren't but I'm just saying like I feel like if you can just choose who wins just make Timmy Chalamet the biggest star in the world win no but it's like I feel like everybody likes him the most I agree so that's why I'm like shocked that they didn't just give it to him I thought it was like
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you went Australian. Australian.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It seems like it's similar to, like, Grammys. Like, they're just, like, it's... But Grammys, it's like... It's like... Chalamet played the game and did not win.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He did play the game.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He does not play the game.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
yeah so then they're like fuck you yeah you've seen that text or he's like chalamet really wanted it i wanted it for him i did too and he gave that pre-speech which kind of i bet he wants that back which was dope to be honest yeah he definitely thought he was winning but he won something yeah he did he won a screen actors guild joint which is dope which is dope but he definitely thought he had it and he was like i'm gonna i'm gonna say this and then i'm gonna he probably and then it's gonna be he's like this is gonna be an edit into me yeah yeah yeah whatever it's a good it'll be better for the story it is what it is
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I thought the Sandler bit was kind of funny. Yeah, Sandler's really funny. Conan is really funny too. Conan's a legend. He was great. I'm a big Conan fan. I'm becoming a big Conan fan. I watched him interview Mark Scout.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I mean, I think it was great. He's awesome.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Because, yeah, you'd probably be in certain circles and you'd forget to do it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Adam Scott. It was Mark's Audi or whatever. Yeah. Dude, I don't even know. Does Conan have a show? No. He's got something. Pod, maybe? Well, that was a pod. He's got a pod. I guess that's just what he has. I don't know. I think he got screwed over at some point. I thought he had a show for some reason.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I mean, he's really funny and really just a pro. I hope that gives everybody more insight on Conan O'Brien.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I feel like we kind of just wrapped it up. Basically, yeah. Long story short, he kind of got f***ed. But he's a legend. He got f***ed for some reason. I don't know what it is. Can't put a finger on it. But he's a legend. And he is a legend. There you go. That's the story of Conan O'Brien.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah. Do we want to go straight into Q's? Yeah. I don't have any other news. Let's go Q's. We got Arthur here. He said Severance. So it looks like he's going to get into... Let me zoom in on his pro... I don't think so, no. His profile picture is like an outdoor hallway.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So it doesn't seem like the aardvark. He said, sup, bakers. Got a blind ranking for you. Rank these five Severance characters by how fun they would be to hang out with. I'm all about this. Yeah, I like that. First one, he said, mark the goat. So just mark. Okay, yeah. Or is there a goat named Mark? There could be, but I don't think so, right? I remember there was goats.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
But, yeah, we're going to UFC, Pereira. What's your prediction for that fight? He wins by brutal knockout. Yeah, and that's what's awesome about him. Or he loses by knockout. Yeah, it'll be a KO. I got Pereira dramatic fight round five KO. And he goes crazy and gets on the cage and does the fucking shama. What does shama mean?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I feel like we haven't gotten a lot of character development on the goats. But the third one, he also did a nickname, so I think it might just be Mark the Goat.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
When he had that beard and shit. They were vibing. He seemed like he would do a lemon drop shot. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. He seemed like a fun dude. I'm going to say, though, five. I don't think he doesn't seem fun at all.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
sure um up next we have outie helly kind of a bitch see i would have put her in the five um but i'm gonna put her in the four she seems like she's absolutely she's like the worst yeah then we have chris walking home so i assume it's christopher walken yeah um so walken's character
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He does seem fun. He seems fun, but I think he's going to end up being evil or something. He's definitely got something going on. He's got something going. Now he seems dope. Yeah, right now he seems fun. Then we have Kyrie Irving. Kyrie Irving, I'm going to put him in the one. He seems like a dope guy.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
a dope dude he does seem like a dope dude yeah like he just seems like he's good at basketball too yeah great handle I saw this I loved him on Kai's stream yeah great Severance character great Severance character I think I might have to send this to Dalton I don't know if we can just clips of like his best his best finishes oh he's insane dude he's like a freaking he's a freak of nature yeah
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And he retired from Severance, so he's just an Audi Kyrie now. Yeah, now he's just Audi Kyrie. Then we have Mrs. Juan. He said Juan. I think that was intentional. He knows it's Juan. But he said Mrs. Juan. She's kind of a nobody to me. She's just like a kid.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I'm kind of sick of her, man.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
but like well yeah like huang do something or don't do something and i don't really care either way yeah but like let's let's either get out of the way and and don't have speaking lines i agree like do or or leave or or yeah or or do something or do something or or be a part of this don't just be a part of this kid yeah it's you're just yeah you're a confusing kid don't give kind of floating don't give milchak stupid ass advice unsolicited that's seth milchak what did she say about that shit
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I don't remember what she said. But she said something stupid to Milchak unsolicited.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
We got Brett Van Vliet. He just came in with a banger today. He said, would you rather whip on a ship or nay-nay with Nene? That's just a clean BVV 10 out of 10 right there. That's BVV at its best. Yeah, no antics, no charging fans for flicks. Would you rather whip on a ship or nae nae with nae nae?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I would too. I'd be sick. Imagine how viral that would go. Nae nae with nae nae on TikTok.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Nene Hilario. He was a good pro. He was really good. Good pro.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Very good.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Good defender. He was good on the Wizards for a little while. He's actually an underrated NBA career.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I don't know.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
uh yeah not really getting a lot um i kind of forgot what he looks like he looks like pat bev he looks like you're not saying that doesn't look like pat bev they have the same hair same beard kind of kind of like a like just like a big guy pat bev if pat bev was huge yeah nanae was dope man yeah grandma nanae was a great player grandma called him yeah grandma called her him mean and that was funny
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
No, he invented the word. Or he didn't invent it, but it's not like a word. It translated directly to...
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Because it looks like Neen.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I'm reading that. If you don't know Nene and you speak English.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He did. He accented. You got to know something weird is happening there.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That guy's awesome. We got Jack. He said, I have a big complaint. Dope. Yeah, we love complaints. One of my favorite establishments, Zaxby's, gave me food poisoning. Oh, and now I no longer want to eat there ever again. Not to mention a friend of mine happened to get the same meal from Zaxby's that day and ended up a okay. I'm really bummed.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
it's like a way of life it's like he just like he's like shama like he's just like it's like uh akuna matata i think it kind of is that it's just like it meant it's it means like i'm here that's what people were uh but i don't think it's like a direct thing i'm pretty sure like it's not i don't think it's just like a brazilian word i don't think or maybe it is the word shama has multiple meanings flame i'm saying flame in portuguese shama is a feminine noun that means flame that but like if what is the word when he says it but in his context he's saying shama as in call me or i am here
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Do you have any suggestions for what fast food establishment I should sign in my next contract with I've officially left the Zaxby's organization. Hopefully I get a tribute video in my return. Yeah, I think they'll give it. I think they'll give it. I think they will give it when he comes back through that drive there. I think they will.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And it seems like he hates what it's come to. He doesn't want to do what he's doing.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
No.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He just doesn't want to get sick. I think with where he should sign next, let's keep in mind, Zaxby's, I think, is like chicken finger vibes.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
well it's yeah so maybe he's in nashville go to mcdougall's if you're in nashville go to mcdougall's uh canes is in nashville you could do that dude canes is good by the way it's gonna get the job done i think i've never been to zack's have you uh i think like once and it's good but yeah it's chicken finger heavy maybe uh don't be afraid of a jack-in-the-box chicken strips and curly and curly fried jack don't be afraid of that
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Very, very good.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Let me take a look.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It seems like you're, you're politely calling my bluff here.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Zaxby's venue. Let's do that. I think it's got to be chicken. I mean, their prof pick is a chicken.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Fingers and wings meals. I kind of want to go there. Hold on. You know, I'm going straight to the maps. Yeah, I would actually love to try that. I want it for dinner tonight. I love a chicken figure. Oh, me too. Hey, McDonald's, why'd you take away chicken selects? I don't know. Why'd you do that? I feel like they had like a thing going with that. There must be a reason.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
We should talk to the general manager over there. We should. Like you're taking away things that people like. Yeah.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Why is it sometimes in and sometimes out? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it seems like it's strategic to drive demand. All right. So I've heard that it's when- No, Zaxby's here. Oh, that sucks. Yeah, it stinks. I've heard it's when meat, when, what is it, like ribs? Oh, like when it's like meat season, when it's pig season? When it's the ribs, I guess, are cheapest. Huh. Then it comes back.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So like it could be gone for two years, but then when the price of it- That would make sense. Like maybe it's like literally financially not a good play if they're expensive.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, hope that helped though, Jack.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
all right we got um this is steven on youtube and he's just got these are interesting matchups he's got a basket 3v3 14 tournament whoa so let's just do let's just do so we have team red team blue team yellow team green let's have team red play team blue team yellow play team green and then we'll do a final yeah so team red first matchup winning the poo elon musk and yoshi it's 3v3 hoops oh i thought it was going to be like red characters or something
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
No, there's Team Red. So Winnie the Pooh, Elon Musk, and Yoshi.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And then for Team Blue, we have Air Bud, a Moose, and Jello Ball. That team. That team's fucking really good.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That team, what are they playing to 11th? Play no 11 by ones and twos. By the way. Win by two. Don't sleep on moose. Yeah, just a moose. Mooses are fucking big. Really big. Mooses are, they're going to bang down. Kind of remind me of Nene a little bit. A moose? Oh, for sure. That's like a prime Nene. You can't set great screens, those guys.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And they're just stoppers on defense.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That's a quality big. It's a moose. A quality big.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, I do, too. And then Jello Ball is really good at basketball.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Then we have Team Yellow. We have LeBron with eight broken fingers and ten stubbed toes. Still pretty good. Still the best player in the world. But eight broken fingers is a lot of broken fingers. He probably has three broken fingers. Then we have a grasshopper and a fish. Okay, so they're definitely building around LeBron. Definitely. And fish can't do anything.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Well, fish is going to be in a bowl in the corner. But so he won't do it? Yeah, he's just going to sit there. Or maybe they could maybe put him under the hoop and you probably won't want to break the glass. LeBron will figure out how to use fish. But then grasshopper, every time I've seen grasshopper, they get killed first play. Yeah, squished. So Team Green, who is Drake.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
One more time. One more time. One more time and then we'll get to the pod. Go ahead. One more time. Go. One more time.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
They're going to be down a man. Team Green is Drake, Kendrick, and LeVar Ball post losing his leg. Okay, so that team's going to have chemistry issues. Drake, Kendrick, LeVar without a leg, and then LeBron all beat up. I have LeBron there. So you got Team Yellow. Yeah. It has to be, right? Yeah. Drake and Kendrick just isn't going to work. They're not going to play. They won't do it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Whoever gets the ball on the check is keeping the ball. Yeah. So you got LeBron's team. I do. Grasshopper's going to be dead. Fish is going to be in a bowl in the corner. You still have him advancing. So going into the final... We have Air Bud, a Moose, and Jell-O versus LeBron with eight broken fingers, 10-step toes, a grasshopper, and a fish. I do have Jell-O. I have Timbo as well.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Fucking sick. Really sick. I might adopt Shama. I think he's my favorite fighter of all time. That's so cool. He's so cool.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I have Timbo as well.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Should be an interesting matchup.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And then he said, I hate how pee smells after eating asparagus, but love the smell after drinking coffee. Have you ever experienced that? I've never noted my pee smell. You will if you get into the coffee game. It's weird. It smells good after coffee? I don't think it smells good. I think it smells bad, actually, personally. Okay. But it's a really weird sensation.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And then do you pay attention to like it smells weird after certain things?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah. I hate that he came to the UFC late. Dude, imagine if he joined the UFC when he was 23. Oh, yeah. He'd be insane. He's 37, dude. 37 is like... But he's in his prime for sure. Does he fight until he's 42, you think? He could. There's some guys that have done it. He's so good that it's not like he's... He could just win a couple more times and retire. Yeah. I don't know. I really don't.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It smells like piss. It's like, yes. It smells like piss. You're like peeing in the urinal and you're like, whoa. It smells like piss. It smells. Interesting. Crazy experience. Maybe it's a coffee thing. I'll stick to the ceiling. I'll stick to the ceiling and just edit. Like from the ceiling.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, I guess if you stick to the floor like if there's nothing interesting about you Yeah, it's like if you if you're two hours come when you're out and you're it's really sick Imagine you're at a bar like everyone you're just like in like Venice at a bar and everyone's hammered It's just you on the like everyone's gonna think they're just like too drunk.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah Sick like you're like From the ceiling
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
yeah you're just yeah you're coming down uh also people will forget that you're up there and you're like yo you know yeah kind of like you just like you just like send snaps too yeah exactly chill yeah it'll be like it'll be a moment view never gets old you take a snap in the whole bar it'd be sick i think it's gotta be ceiling there's no floor is not cool can i just bring up one concern that i have about ceiling what fans um
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
What if you face up in the ceiling? Like if you're just stuck like this. Yeah, that's not a good look. That's the worst two hours of your life. If you can't figure out how you're going to stick, if you can't control that, then I might do four. If your ass is sticking to the ceiling, that's a movie.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
You're just like hanging. You're looking around. You're scanning the room. You're calling people out. You. Yeah.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Hey.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That would be very fun.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Wait. Don't leave yet. Something I want to talk about. Don't leave yet. Yeah. I got like 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're, if your face stuck to the ceiling, that's like really, really humiliating. And you look like dead. Yeah. And like that. Yeah. That'll haunt people. But, but same thing on the floor. You'd also look dead.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So it's gotta be ceiling. I think so too. Yeah. We got Tom Brady is back. Tom Brady's working his way into, into questions and he's been, I think he's like a top 10 steak. Reminds me of Tom Brady a little bit. I don't see that comparison. For me, it's more of a Brett Favre. Yeah, Tom Brady. We got Jack and Manny.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He said, Jack and Manny, would you rather randomly scream 10 words per day with no control over when or what it is or have a hamster appear in your hands every time you sneeze? Also, Jack, check out Mrs. Filet Sauce. Zero sugar donkeys. What? Hold on. Let's look this up. And then he said donkeys. Mrs. Filet Sauce? Whoa, whoa. Real. It's real. It's a Chick-fil-A brand?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I don't know what it is, but it's a real product. All right. I'll check that out. That's dope. And it looks like Mrs. Taste is like a whole brand. I don't get it. Okay, yeah, good. Yeah, I'm going to order that.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I mean, listen, there's no reason for a serving of Chick-fil-A sauce to be 200 calories.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, it seems like this whole brand is doing sauces, and they're all zero-cal. That's a great, great invention, and that needs to be a little bit— Zero-calorie buffalo, zero-calorie cookies and cream.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I hope it doesn't taste like ass. But if it tastes good, it's like, guys. You should blind test them and just see if it's that different. Well, dude, it's like sugar-free syrup is a little worse, I would say. But it's way better than 400 calories. And just so much sugar and bad for your teeth. I'm big on sugar-free syrup. I've always been big on that.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Scream 10 words a day. You don't know which words it's going to be. Or have a hamster appear in your hands every time you sneeze. Hamster. It seems like a positive versus a negative. You can also hold in sneezes. Very true. Yeah. But let's say anytime you get the sensation, it, you still, I don't see what's wrong with, I don't, I don't hear, I don't see the downside.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Did you see the clip of him just giving like a wad of cash to a fan? I did see that. Really dope. Everything he does is awesome. That fan was probably like, hell yeah. That fan was probably like, he was a cool guy to meet in person. Yeah, he was really genuine. Yeah, he gave me like $20,000. Yeah, so he was really a stand-up dude. I liked Alex Pereira. It's like, what'd you like about him?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I mean, I think it's cute and fun, cute and fun.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah. And just be like, there's a hamster in here.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I think Tom Brady is kind of like these hamsters are going to start stacking up.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Like you're going to have 30 hamsters at your crib. I'm not. I won't. I won't either. I'm not doing that with the hamsters. I'm catch and release with these hamsters. For sure, for sure. And it's a really sick magic trick. Yeah, it is. You'd be like, hey, somebody make me sneeze.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It'd be really sick. For sure. Yeah. All right. Big Gouda wrote in a stanza. I think he was the one last time he got cut off immediately.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He was like really, really explicit. Yeah. He said went through a rebrand. So he wrote a new stanza. Good. Big Gouda on the beat. Spread love and kindness. Say thank you and please. Do you think he's trolling? Do you think he's like being like, no, I think you guys are going to make me clean up. I'm going to give you like a. Listen, I think that this is a good start from Gouda.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Like a G-rated... We'll see. Spread love and kindness. Say thank you and please. Spread like a fart. Big Gouda cut the cheese. No, that's just clean, good family fun from Gouda. I love that. Sunshine and Ramos, I love all color. The golden rule, be nice to each other. I love you says more than I hate you, Ken. This big bad wolf is just not who I am. Gumdrops and fairies, pink, purple, and green.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I got two words for you. Bad words are mean. That was kind of tough. Listen, Gouda, I think that that's the direction we need you going. So let's hold hands. Are we still going? Through bumps in the road and be nice to everyone, even toad.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I don't know about that. And then he said, I love my mommy. We love our mom too. I thought it was better.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
But he might be trolling, man. He might be trolling us because we wanted him to clean it up and now he went from explicit high-level raps.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Why?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Fart and it was stinkier. Spread love and kindness, say thank you and please. Spreads like a fart, Big Gouda cut the cheese. See, that's Gouda. Spreads like a fart, Big Gouda cut the cheese. Right? And it gets a little, he's getting a bit raunchy. Big good to cut the cheese. But he did it in that, yeah, he usually does that rhythm. Big good to cut the cheese.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And so when he has that cadence, I know that he's like, he's really, he has this kind of, he's really doing it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He's rap rapping. Spreads like a fart. Big good to cut the cheese. Big good to cut the cheese. I get what you mean.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So I don't think, yeah, I don't think he just mailed this in. I don't think he's a troll at all. I think this is a real rebrand. Thanks for cleaning it up, man.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I like it a lot. Ryan just had a little bit of feedback on the sports epi. He said, I love the sports episode. Like, I really do. But he did say, next time, can you guys touch on Cooper Flag?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Go out. Get. Cooper Flagg. Dalton, can we just keep it on?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Did I touch on Flagg at all? You did. You touched a lot on Flagg. Let's go to the next thing. Cooper Flagg has been touched on.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Thanks, man. Thanks, man. I'm sorry.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He's just like genuine.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And I talked to you before this. We said once we're over 10 times. That wasn't normal about a flag talk.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, of course, man.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I'm sorry. No, I just think he's good, man.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
We know. He said, I am a Duke fan and would stab Van Vliet to have him come back. Whoa. Whoa. Damn. Ryan VanVleet watches every pod, all the questions. He's going to f*** Ryan up for that. Ryan Tully is in trouble.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
But he did give me $20,000. Something about that interaction that I really liked.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
What? You think what? Was he talking about Fred VanVleet? Or was he talking about Brett VanVleet? You know what I'm saying? I'm a Duke fan. I would stab VanVleet to have him come back. I think Brett. I think Brett VanVleet.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Also, Zach named four current Duke players.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Danny named six animals, a dog, cat, snake, bird, fish, Cooper flag.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I mean, listen, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a March madness. Like I come alive in March, so I should start to like, I should start to like study like by the end, by April, you're going to see me talking about like, you like, do you like Cooper flag? I do. Cooper flag. I do. Yeah.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I like Cooper flag a lot, but you're going to see me talking about the, the, the senior that doesn't get any minutes on Duke's bench by a hundred percent by April. A hundred percent. Yeah. Right now I only know one and that's Cooper flag. That's Cooper flag. That's Cooper flag. Yeah. Yeah. We got Matty B. We'll wrap up with this one. He said, humble tidings, sack and fanny.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Blind ranking based on things similar to the color orange. So things that just feel orange. It's not orange things necessarily. Things that feel orange. We're going to kick it off with autumn.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
one so we're getting a full season is that kind of your your view there it's like well it's not fall yeah it's autumn fall's a little bit like more uh maybe purple purple purple autumn's very autumn autumn's a burnt orange oh my god and it's beautiful So are you doing it based on how similar they are to orange? Is that what you were doing here? Or how good they are?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Honestly, Danny, I'm just kind of letting my heart lead me. Yeah, sure. Up next, we have Thursday. Very orange. It's pretty orange. It actually could be green. Yeah, I'm going to put it in the four. Okay. I see green. But I obviously get hints of orange there. For sure. Up next, we have orange. I don't really get a lot of orange from that. Three.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Maybe we do that at some time. That would actually be really fun.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I don't get a lot of orange from that. Up next, we have 7 p.m.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Okay.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And then this one, to me, feels the most orange. Of these so far, we have green. So I guess that's in the two. I mean, honestly, I think that's a pretty solid ranking. Yeah. And then he said, thank you, lads. P.S. Dark Toaster is greater than Blue Jay. Uh-oh. Let's not start this.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
We just carry around, we just give hundreds out.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
110. A lot of Eppies, man.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I was like, I'm going to say that the first person to like recognize me, I'll give you a hundred bucks. Oh, now we can do that.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It'd be weird. They might get humiliated.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
We could do it. It'd be fun to do a first people to find us thing at some point. That would be fun. I've seen a lot of people do that. You see when Kai did it? That was pretty crazy. During Subathon?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I would love to do something. That was a lecture.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Most Valuable... Ball.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Brew.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
At Starby's or what? No, well, yeah, you can go. You could obviously go to Starby's. Yeah, yeah. But you could also just buy cold brew. Oh, yeah, yeah. Have we talked about this or no? We talked about it, but not on the pod, I don't think. So you, yeah. And you just, you just pour it. It's awesome. It's like, you didn't talk about this on the pod. I thought maybe we did.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
We did it for a second. Locked in for a second. And that's how I want to start every pod. I want to start with a nice harmony. A vocal arrangement. A very good vocal arrangement at that. Middle Cam looks like he's pointing downwards. Yeah, he does. He does. Maybe we just do this whole pod.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I thought you might've given an MV. Maybe not.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So yeah, it just tastes good as shit, right? You pour it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Not as much anymore because I do it every day. So it's like it loses its effect for sure. Yeah. But like my coffee making process is grab. It's like cubes.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I'm just like it's already fridged. Yeah. So you're like I'm going to go make coffee. And then what do you do? You basically open the cold brew. It's like pouring a glass of orange juice.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Different form, obviously. Right, you open it and then, because people want to know how to make it back home.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So how do you make the Zach special, right? Because some people like whipped cream, this, this, this, this. So the Zach special, the Zachy cold brew is what?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, this is how he, because there's a couple of things, right?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Okay. So pause it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Grab a cup. So everybody write that down. Grab a cup.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I think the main thing is the cup can't be hollow at the bottom.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Because that's right. So you have to have something at the bottom holding it in.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Okay. So you don't do it reverse.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And you do that so you can pour it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Okay, that's a step. Don't skip steps either.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So where do you put your caps? In your pocket?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Okay.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Okay.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And that's, and that's your kind of your thing.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That's dope. That's different.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Like first time you made it, it probably like it probably didn't turn out as well as now.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
What do you do a certain like flavor cold brew? Like isn't it like peppermint and shit? Vanilla. I mean, I do vanilla. I felt a little bit blindsided that there's 12 grams of sugar in there, to be honest. That makes sense, though. It has a little milkshake-y vibe, right? Well, yeah. I think it just has milk straight up, which milk has sugar.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And it's like I got the black cold brew. Yeah. Oh, it's probably ass, right?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That's definitely so much better for you, too, than a freaking energy drink in terms of what's in there.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
But I feel like, I feel like they're like, hey, we're doing 12. Like energy drink will be like, hey, we're doing zero. But it's like, what the fuck are you really doing?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It's like, it isn't calories. You're not going to get fat. You can't get fat from zero. Like if you are on a cut.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
He might be cutting off the retired guys up there.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
drink diet coke you could drink diet root beer yes all day every day a hundred percent and like it'll just get you you could eat piclays and do diet root beer and you will not gain anything you will lose so much weight yeah because it's cows in versus cows out it is a crazy thing you're bringing no cows in it but it's so confusing that i'm drinking something well i will give you a fun fact that you probably already knew what like i know a lot i don't know it is four calories
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I didn't know that. But if it's under five calories, you could say it's no calories. Because you burn it just by consuming it.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And then they're having 4,000 calories. So I guess don't have that many, but...
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
So this is a Wednesday pod, but we're doing a normal Thursday pod, basically. Yeah, so I'm the LV Rook Confession. Then we're going to slot sport. We said you're a good young prospect. We're going to put you in the Friday slot for now. Because at the end of the day, when you are a sport episode, you're bonus. You're bonus content. He didn't like to hear that.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Water's the only one with zero, I bet. A true zero.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That reminds me of that Chipotle, that road.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Really too narrow.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Let's ban parking on the road.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
either band parking do some guys i i'm i shouldn't be going backwards i'm not on a main road yeah no i agree you're trying to go forwards you're trying to go i'm trying to go yeah i'm trying to i'm trying to get north yeah but i'm going south yeah that does happen man what is up with that i don't know i think they need to make the roads bigger yeah i think that's or maybe get rid of sidewalks perhaps would do it sure um i just it's something i wanted to bring to the forefront
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I have noticed that too. And that's, I know the areas you're talking about.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
It's like, and it just doesn't logistically.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Mm-hmm.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That is true.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Because, like, they could have missed on, like, lights and signs, and then, like, everyone's just like, yo, we don't know how to do—we don't know where to go.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Nobody would—there would be no order in the town if there was, like— They built out a city, man.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
i did they've done a really good job really good problem whoever did it like shout out to you because you built you you built like a new map you built a fucking new like just built it on minecraft map yeah yeah you messed up on the the width of the roads but then like good job on stop signs 100 because dude if they just like like if we built it we probably would have been like okay pavement good and then we'd be like oh we forgot uh lights there's no lights
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And that's a problem. Yeah. And so the cars don't know what to do and the whole city's. Yeah. Nobody can go anywhere. Or it'd be like, we forgot Tesla charging stations. Oh, for a hundred percent. Like nobody could charge their Teslas. Yeah. And they're like every couple of miles. Yeah. They do a good, they just, they do a good job. Put it together.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
My LV is going to be least valuable feeling. i'm trying to remember what oh yeah i mean you're any athlete will relate to this anybody's played sports it's gonna be toe toe no it's gonna be uh that like uh a shower on a fresh leg wound and we'll go like the one that i have from footy yesterday like right up in here fresh wound and you shower and it burns really bad you can you'll cry
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Well, I'm just saying, I agree. I'm saying he didn't like to hear it. How did that conversation go? Bad.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
i know it hurts so bad but you have to shower no i didn't cry but no like like not even like on purpose no no not like yeah not like whimpering not even that it's just like you could be like i'm gonna be tough and i'm not gonna react and then shit will just start oh yeah yeah yeah just like because of sheer pain just like oh yeah yeah it hurts really bad um you got one of those yesterday
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
I got a fresh one. Yeah, I picked up a lot of knocks in our games.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
You went down? You hit the deck? I think it was on our second goal. A lot kind of happened. I slide a lot and shit. Dude, every game we play... Do I slide a lot? You watch. Did I slide a lot yesterday? I didn't notice you sliding once. Yeah, but I have an upper right here. Big thing. You must have hit the deck at some point. I just slide a couple times usually.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
But I'm just saying, you came on to be a bonus.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
People complain about stuff, and I don't get annoyed at the ref, but I get annoyed at people getting annoyed at the ref. Oh, my God, dude. Like, the goalie would be like, dude, that was annoying. He'd be like, it's a goal kick. But then it's like it's the most obvious corner I've ever seen. It was a corner. Yeah, why are you doing that, dude?
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
And this ref is just, like, trying to make $30 and doesn't give a fuck. I know, but then the ref is now, like, confused. Yeah. And then it's like you're actually kind of ruining the game right now. Because it wasn't a goal kick. You know what? You kind of have to almost ref your own game at those games. You do. If everyone acts like it's a throw for that way, he'll just do that, and it's fine.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
That team also, we beat them, and they started acting out because they were mad because they lost. When they were down 4-0, they started fouling and complaining because they were like, oh, I'm losing. I don't get how you could just be bad. That's one thing I don't get.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Hey, man, we could have put you behind a paywall. So shut up. Shut the fuck up, man. You shut your fucking needle.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah. I mean... How does that work? Like being really bad with your feet? Just like how... Why are... Coordination. But like... Yeah, I guess. It's just like... Coordination. I just... Imagine just going to the pitch and not being good. Yeah. No, dude. I also think like... I don't understand. Imagine like when you play those teams where it's like you can literally walk by the defenders so easily.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Maybe it's just like physically being like slow. I guess if you're like 40. But like there's some games where it's like I can just touch it to the right and I'll get past this guy. And he'll be running after me like this. It's wild. I don't understand the physics behind just being fast. The team that 9-0 hit the kid in the nuts was right next to us.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, we had a game canceled a couple weeks ago because 9-0 hit. So it was actually I played him the ball. It was a corner. Chipped it up over. Bounce, bounce, volley. I've never seen somebody strike a ball as hard as he did right in this kid's nuts.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
um and it was uh projectile vomiting everywhere and the game got canceled they had a call got canceled because he hit a kid rolling around because he got hit in the balls that guy like legitimately had to go to the hospital definitely and i feel bad but it's so oh i feel bad it's so objectively hilarious but also it's like it he didn't mean it no he didn't you know he didn't he hit him and he hit him in the nuts but he probably struck that ball 300 miles per hour
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Okay, fucking get out of here, Sports Epi. Get out of here, yeah. Also, Sports Epi could be 30 minutes, and I don't want Wednesday, primetime Wednesday, to be 30 minutes.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Yeah, that was probably the best he's ever struck a soccer ball. A soccer ball, yeah.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
Point blank. He just went straight down. Right into his two balls. Right dead ball. Two balls here. Ball was right into his balls. Right into his balls. Right into his balls, yeah. I've never heard somebody puke that loud. Yeah, what was it? It was like, it was just, it was an unbelievable scene. It was like a movie. That would happen in like Kicking and Screaming.
The Bread Basket Podcast
We Get Scammed, Timothée Chalamet Snubbed, Conan O'Brien Rocks, And Q's From The Sticks
But I love... You know what I love? It would have happened in King of Screaming. I would have loved... The game getting canceled is the craziest part.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
How close were we for a potential disaster there?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I mean, you're the Transportation Secretary.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
How close were we for a potential disaster there?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Of course, yeah. Tim Stewart?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Mm-hmm.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah. That's it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
I think.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Giving me ideas, yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah.
The Dan Bongino Show
The Left's Bloodthirst Grows To Dangerous Levels | Episode 18
NBC News has exclusive new reporting about a first for the FBI. The agency is creating a multi-agent bodyguard team to protect the bureau's number two, Dan Bongino. NBC's Ken Delaney has the reporting. Ken, this has never happened before, I think. Why now?
The Dan Bongino Show
The Left's Bloodthirst Grows To Dangerous Levels | Episode 18
Kandalanian. Thank you.
The Dan Bongino Show
Trump Puts China In Their Place w/ Tim Murtaugh | Episode 19
There's some of those things. I watched on the evening news last night, one of the other networks, and I watched the issue of lumber. Now, you see, we get so much of our lumber, our two-by-fours, from Canada. That's where we get it from, Canada. We get our newsprint from up there for newspapers. The fact is we get it. What are we going to do? Have more lumber made in the United States now?
The Dan Bongino Show
Trump Puts China In Their Place w/ Tim Murtaugh | Episode 19
What is our plan now? Oh, we're not going to import wood, so we're going to make more wood? We're going to create more wood? Is that it? I don't think we're in a position – to simply replicate the imports coming into this country with our own products. They can't always be done. And I think if a wood's example of that wood, are we going to make more wood in this country because of our trade deal?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Like, if I take off... I don't know.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
That's not how... If you're the greatest of all time and there's no diminishment... Aren't you the greatest of all time?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
There he is. Just hope he locked in some of these media deals long term. You know what I mean?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
You know that sound. It's the sound of money hitting your Venmo account. A friend paying you back. Or maybe it's getting cash back from your favorite business when you pay with the Venmo debit card. Or it's realizing you can pay with Venmo at checkout at thousands of brands. Now, there are so many more ways to answer the question, what's your Venmo? Download Venmo today.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
It's somewhere in the middle, though, right? Because Tyreek Hill wasn't voted the number one player by the NFL players in the NFL when he was in Kansas City. And when he was in Kansas City, everyone knew he was good, but they didn't say Patrick Mahomes was made by Tyreek Hill the way they were saying in the Dolphins, Tua only is good because of Tyreek Hill.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
So, like, he was well-regarded in Kansas City. However, like, when he came here because of his quarterbacking situation, he did get another level of respect and credit for the way the team was playing. And, like, to some extent, you saw this year, he was not the same, and the team wasn't as good.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Now, Tua obviously missed four games also, but, like, you saw what the team wasn't with Tyreek Hill when he wasn't there.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Yeah, but we realized real quickly, like, Patrick Mahomes was good without Tyreek Hill.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
And look up also on that thing. Where's Patrick Mahomes on that list? Because I'm sure he's probably ahead of Tyreek Hill. So he would get the credit for why it is that the team was good.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
I'm not saying look it up. I'm just saying he goes from being one of the guys to the guy and the reason why they're so good in many people's eyes. I think it's pretty clear.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated. Dosh cash back terms apply.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
I don't think he made a bad decision, if you were to ask him, because he got a contract that he wouldn't get, and he already won a Super Bowl. He had the Super Bowl. He had the Super Bowl. He got the contract that he sought out. And I don't think he does solace. And also, he told us that he's coming back next year faster than this year. So he's coming back at 30 faster than ever.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
I mean, what would he regret?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
I don't think Christian Wilkins regrets going to Las Vegas and getting the money that he wasn't going to get here.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Why are we talking about Tyreek Hill?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
I'm just yes-handing. Yes-danned. He should go to Buffalo. Oh, man.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Spagnola. That's how you do it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Spags. Three kill. The band is back together.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Well, we stole it from Bill Barnwell.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
I literally pitched it to you on air and you said that's a good idea. And then you came to this show and I guess forgot that I did it to you five minutes before.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Yeah, no, but I credited him on the front end.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
I'm not going to listen back.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
How do you guys feel about stolen goods?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Well, here's my question. Then they're yours. I had a conversation out there before, and I was like, look. I'm not one to steal, but also I don't ask where certain things come from. You know what I mean? Like if someone steals something and then they gift it to me, I didn't steal it. So I don't know if you guys feel the same way. I feel like it's still probably a crime.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
And to be clear, I don't have stolen goods. It was just a conversation. That you know of. Yeah, exactly. That I know of because I don't ask. Depends on the level, right? Like let's say this jacket, for example. Literally this jacket. So what? Maybe it was in a box at Radio Row last year. It wasn't intended for me, but I asked someone, hey, how does one get one of those jackets?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
And then they snuck it over to me and put it in my backpack.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
That's definitely his opinion of how Radio Rose goes, is that he's the most reliable, no one more reliable.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
That's kind of the thing. We're up against a deadline.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
We only have 20 minutes. I got to go for a heater. Listen, we don't need to rush this. Let's just wait for people to appear. It's like, we only have 19 minutes left on this set. It's like, ah, don't worry about it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
No, next thing you know, he's talking to Ryan Leaf and bringing him over for an interview and promising that he's going to get him into the Lake Tahoe tournament. And then the interview never airs and he doesn't end up in the Lake Tahoe tournament. I still have to get on that for two years. Next year we come back and Ryan Leaf is on set again because he's promising him the exact same thing.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Yep, every year. Rinse, repeat. I know we're going to see Ryan Leaf this year.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Yeah, but off air when we're up against deadline. And I will say this. No one at Stugatz, take this as a compliment because it's intended this way. Thank you. No one is better at Radio Row of figuring out how to leave, go outside, smoke, and make it back through security with five minutes than Stugatz. Thank you. How he gets in and out of security so quickly.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
to go smoke and do whatever it is that he's up to outside.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
They let me in and out whenever I want. None of that's true.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Yeah, but it largely amounts to nothing, I guess, is kind of like, that time would be better spent doing anything but that. Billy, we are paying Stu Gatz for schmoozing at Super Bowl week. I know, but he's not bringing in anyone. Everyone else is booking these people. He's just walking around glad-handing, promising people hits he's going to do that he doesn't.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
But then you're also missing the context of I think he's done it in less carries. So it's an extra game, but it's less opportunities to do so. Second asterisk. But I'm just saying it's a nullified asterisk because you're saying that, oh, he had more opportunities, but he actually had less in more time.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Is this where you start getting like a little two plus sign? Like what the hell is that? Was that even on the keyboard? Exactly. That's confusing. Keyboards have been simplified, but complicated. You know what I mean? Before, they were a lot longer, and then they had that secondary number pad, and then all the little tildes and stuff on top of it. It was easy to find things.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Now it's like, there's however many keys there are, like 34 keys or whatever. You can't find half of the stuff that goes out in print. You don't know where people get that from, how they get it on there. I don't know. Before, I used to just be able to... When I took Mario Teaches Typing... And I learned in, you know, we second grade or whatever, how to type my Q-W-E-R-T-Ys. You know what I mean?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
When I was doing that, A-S-D-F-G, all of that stuff, right? I knew Alt-164 was this. Alt-132 was that. I don't even know where alt is anymore. I'm going to tell you right now, Billy. It's on the right, but I don't know where it is on the keyboard.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
He's been so out of the womb. And then it came at me like.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Okay. Agree to disagree. I know that's how I live my life. I have good circles. Do you? Yeah, tight circles.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
Why are we like 10 days away from the Super Bowl wondering who's jealous of each other?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Dan "The Asterisk Guy" and Tyreek Hill's Jealousy
And we're starting to find out he wasn't even that good at his job.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
That's yesterday's news.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Yeah, I mean, they were really hot and heavy in season four.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Well, I'll be honest, that's the first time I've heard of that. So I don't know where that came from.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
It's the first thing on my sheet, the Iceman. Do people call you Ben Solak by chance? I could also see that nickname.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
I have literally never heard that before in my life.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
How and why? I want to win. That's why. I don't know how. I guess I just do it. I don't know. It's been a hell of a ride, though. It's been a lot of fun to be able to start the season off so strong, to win three out of the first however many races it's been. It's been, you know. It's been great, and I'm excited about getting to Miami. Miami is a great racetrack.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
You guys broke news to me again by saying Homestead's getting renovated. I think that's awesome, and I'm excited about the future of that place.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
You guys got me?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Echoey. Yeah, I don't know what else to do here. But, yeah, I don't know. I've never heard of Iceman, but I'll take it. I'll claim it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
So it was I think it was last year, maybe two years ago. I remember Adam, my crew chief, he told me that, hey, if you ever have an issue, stop in your teammates box and they'll hit all the lug nuts to make sure that the lug nuts are tight. And so that was the first time in a couple of years that it has come up.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
And I think it's relatively new since the introduction of next gen because the old cars, you had five lug nuts and the odds of a wheel coming off were really, really low if you have five lug nuts. But with now only having one, obviously, if you have a problem on the one lug nut, the wheel is going to come off. And yeah, it certainly saved us from damaging our car.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Also, West Virginia was complaining so much about this. They didn't even realize their head coach was leaving for another school. Darian DeVries got hired by Indiana yesterday. So really rough. Exactly why I said if you're a player on this team, you're like, all right, pump the brakes. Hang on a second.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Like if the wheel comes off and you start making and you have to drive back to pit road, it just destroys the underbody of the car and really hurts the car performance. So it really saved us this weekend at Las Vegas.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
I'm a Tiger fan. I followed them through the offseason pretty good. But since I started racing, I haven't been able to really keep up with them. But I know they're doing really well. They're leading their conference. And, you know, fingers crossed, I would love to get to go to an NBA Finals game.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Yeah, I mean, it's just such a long season. And certainly with us racing at a different track every single weekend, it doesn't leave much time to follow other things. But, you know, you kind of get into a routine and a rhythm whenever you get into the summer where it opens it up a little bit.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
But certainly whenever, you know, you're just getting the season started, I, at least myself, I'm focused on, you know, week to week and going to the new tracks. So, yeah, I haven't been following the Thunder very closely, but come June, May or June, I'm going to be following them really close if they keep advancing.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
I mean, I might have someone else make it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Man, that's a good question. I'll be honest, I don't know that I've ever been asked that, but I appreciate it. And I will say that I have the coolest job in the world. It is, I mean, how awesome is it that I get to drive race cars for a living? But on the flip side, it is still a job. And those days where just you have races that go really smooth, and I won three in a row.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
But then last weekend, which last weekend I still finished 12th, so it wasn't the end of the world. But it's like everything you do is wrong, and you can't pick the right lane on restarts. And it feels like you're just bashing your head against the wall. So, you know, it's competitive. It's professional sports. And some days you win, some days you lose.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Because now there's more important things going on and everyone's been distracted by this stupid tournament.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
But those losses are extremely hard at times. They can be. And the pressure's on, man. So, you know, everyone wants to be a professional athlete, but I don't think... Some people don't put into perspective the pressure that we're under.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
why the chili bowl but can you even explain the chili bowl to the lay person yeah so it the cool thing about the chili bowl is it it's well number one you named it it's dirt track racing and dirt track racing the car is constantly in a state of drift and you're sliding around the corners and the the driver matters a lot more on dirt tracks than it does on asphalt tracks so
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
NASCAR, which is America's top form of motorsports, the car matters a lot. And if you're a really good driver and you're in a slow car, you're not going to win. You're not going to be successful. But on dirt track racing, a really good driver can take a slower car and make it win races. So that's one thing that I love about dirt track racing is that the driver matters a little bit more.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how to articulate it more than there's just millions of fans watching, millions of dollars being spent, and millions of...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
time and hours and effort put into your race car and it's all dependent on me doing my job and and making sure that i hit my marks and on top of hitting my marks and being fast like not screwing up like never spinning out not coming down pit road not running into people not running into the pit crew members stopping in the right spot on the pit box like there's just a ton of things that
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Everybody is pouring their heart and soul and money and resources into me to make sure that I do my job. And that can be said for everybody, all the drivers out there.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Yeah, well, it goes, it kind of goes both ways. Like if I really screw it up and I do a bad job, I won't sleep at all. Now, if I win, I won't sleep at all because I'm high on adrenaline and I'm pumped up, but it's those days, the days that like, you know, I, I do my job and I get the most out of my car and I finished third, fourth, whatever.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Back to the Alabama State game. So, Dan, I don't know if you caught this, but the game ended on a Hail Mary pass. It was so cool. Alabama State, the player, I think his name is Micah Simpson. He was a middle school quarterback, launches the ball across the court, gets deflected off of a couple Alabama State players. One of them gets it, puts in the layup. They win the game.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Then I can sleep okay, but definitely you win the race, you're pumped up, you're celebrating, you've got buddies over, you're staying up those nights, and then the days that you really screw up, you're not sleeping because you're like, gosh, man, why did I do that?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Oh, man, that's easy. That's Larson all day. So me and him have a very similar upbringing, similar background. We both are dirt track racers, and we push each other to the edge of control all the time. And I think he would say the same thing, that he loves beating me and I love beating him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Hey, I appreciate it. I appreciate the nickname, too.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
It was absolutely electric. It was such a fun, like, final four minutes of that game. And again, March Madness delivers.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Wow, you really didn't watch the Alabama State game.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
I will say one of my favorite things about March Madness is there's always a main character every year. There's always the one guy who gets, like last year, I can't remember his name.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
No, not him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
He was a main character for sure, and that was a great run. But no, I think he played for like Grand Canyon. I honestly can't even remember. But he ended up getting like a Wingstop deal, and he was the main character for like two weeks, and it was wonderful.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
As soon as the tournament ends, you're like, I can't remember his name. But for two weeks, he's the biggest person in sports.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Thanks for letting us know that you don't watch Marsh Madness.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
The male pattern baldness?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Yeah, that was him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
OK, it wasn't because the Alabama State game, the St. Francis Alabama State game was more exciting. However, I do want to just linger on this for a second because it's the fastest that any one of our takes has ever aged well. Like we yesterday were like, oh, my God, governor of West Virginia, get over yourself. Like we're splitting hairs, blah, blah, blah. This is why North Carolina should be in.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Yeah, he needs to ruin a woman's career. Also, I was wondering, like, hey, what's up with Jack Golke? I forgot his name and also that he existed. Maybe I can find out and see what he's up to. There's a story catching up with Oakland's Jack Golke. Apparently, he plays for the Wisconsin Herd of the G League, getting a few minutes off the bench, averaging three points a game.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
Our guys.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
This is why they are in, blah, blah, blah. Like five hours later, North Carolina just blows out San Diego State. All of the takes that we had yesterday aged very well. And I would like to pat ourselves on the back for it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
If North Carolina lost, Jim, it might be a little tricky today. It might be a little tricky. We might be walking some things back. But they left no doubt. They won. We can all move on now.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: The Worst Part Of The Life (feat. Christopher Bell)
But Chris, stop being mean to Greg, Chris.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
I disagree. I think it's more on the paper. The quality of paper is the easier slide. If you get that good wrapping paper, that good thick wrapping paper, that'll slide much better than that crap.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Folks, listen up. Smirnoff knows there's no I in football. Football's a we thing, an experience that is best joined together with good drinks and good folks. Smirnoff is the world's number one vodka and is the official vodka partner of the NFL. And this year, there are more opportunities to watch football and make delicious Smirnoff cocktails than ever before over the holiday season.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
From Thanksgiving to Black Friday and Christmas, Smirnoff and the NFL are with you every step of the way. So this holiday season, when you're enjoying the game and your cocktails, please make sure you drink responsibly. Take a minute, make a plan, never drive impaired. Smirnoff, we do game days. Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff, number 21 vodka, distilled from grain, 40% alcohol by volume.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Please do not share with anyone under legal drinking age.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
He forgot to check. I love how he's holding it below the table as if we didn't all hear it and it didn't stop the show.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
You're right.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
I feel like it's really just a chance for the employees to assess. How well are you taking care of us? Oh, this is where the holiday party is. Oh, there's an open bar. Oh, the food is included. Like at my wife's one last night. That's what employees are doing. They're assessing. They're looking around.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
You guys are proving the point for football, though. You guys just said it. Every other team around here, if they were bad the previous season, the ratings might not be great the next year. The Dolphins rating, people are watching the Dolphins, even if they were 1-15 the year before.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That's stunning. My daughter loves the Panthers.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Let's ask him, Dan. I have not asked him that. All right, thank you.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That cologne just falls. It really does. It really does.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
It is.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
What a craze. I need to hear this list again of quarterbacks that Lamar Jackson is not. He's not Sam Darnold. He's not Josh Rosen. You watched him last night.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
He's not Sam Rosen. Josh Rosen, that's true. He's not close to either one of them. He's not wrong about that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Visit DraftKings.com slash TumsFoodball between January 6th and February 9th to enter for free and select your game day plate before the start of each playoff round. Age and eligibility restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. See terms at DraftKings.com slash TumsFoodball. When you feel the heat of the game, don't let the heartburn keep you on the sidelines.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Try Tums Chewy Bites with a tasty outer shell and soft center for fast relief of heartburn, acid indigestion, and upset stomach. Check out Tums Gummy Bites, featuring a soft and easy-to-chew format for fast relief of occasional heartburn, acid indigestion, sour stomach, and upset stomach. Both available at Amazon, Target, and other major retailers nationwide.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
For five minutes, I was watching everyone just like, nope, not letting you in, not letting you in. So when I got up there, I had to say something, and I said it. Cheaters never prosper. My buddy was saying, not today, not today. I think that was what he was adding. I'm telling you, the response I got from this guy, what I said was amazing. Cheaters never prosper.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
This guy yelled as angry as he could. I ain't cheating.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
And for more heartburn relief fun, be sure to follow Tums at TumsOfficial on Instagram and TikTok.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Dan, you've been saying to us that you want to get better with fan engagement. Well, here it is. Thanks to our friends at Boost Mobile, we are now doing boldest take from the week. We want you listeners. Send us something funny. Send us a hot take. But one thing it has to be is bold. You dial the number 718-540-9013.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
You give us your boldest take, and we will be playing that for the rest of the show. It's good stuff.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
I'm saying it now. Give us your boldest take. Call in 718-540-9013. Give us your boldest take. If you happen to do over the weekend, give us your boldest take from the weekend. If you do it midweek, give it to us from the week. It really doesn't matter. But either way, the boldest, the Boost Mobile boldest take from the weekend is presented by Boost Mobile, the newest 5G network in the country.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Folks, the playoff season is here, and the only thing better than the game day predictions are the foods that come with them. Introducing Tums Fantasy Food Ball Pool, brought to you by Tums, America's number one anti-acid brand and DraftKings.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Each week leading up to the big game, turn football into food ball by building your best game day plate for a shot at winning a share of $40,000 in cash prizes. Inspired by game day bites and tailgate treats, join the Tums Food Ball action during this playoff season's most heartburn-inducing times.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Visit DraftKings.com slash TumsFoodball between January 6th and February 9th to enter for free and select your game day plate before the start of each playoff round. Age and eligibility restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. See terms at DraftKings.com slash TumsFoodball. When you feel the heat of the game, don't let the heartburn keep you on the sidelines.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Try Tums Chewy Bites with a tasty outer shell and soft center for fast relief of heartburn, acid indigestion, and upset stomach. Check out Tums Gummy Bites, featuring a soft and easy-to-chew format for fast relief of occasional heartburn, acid indigestion, sour stomach, and upset stomach. Both available at Amazon, Target, and other major retailers nationwide.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
And for more heartburn relief fun, be sure to follow Tums at TumsOfficial on Instagram and TikTok.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
We know what that means. Stop being pedantic is the real note here.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
I think they would have been fine with it, probably less so with what we're doing now. But we're doing this on Wednesday, Dan. If we did it on Monday, I would have said weekend. I'm just doing the math that it's weird to pitch something from the weekend on Wednesday.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
That's the point that Dan is getting caught up on that doesn't matter. Whether it's a Thursday, give it from the week. If it's a Monday, give it from the weekend. Either way, we love Boost Mobile and we appreciate their sponsorship. And you need to check them out because they're the newest 5G network in the entire country.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
And it's presented by Boost Mobile, the newest 5G network in our country.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
It's open to anyone. If Stugatz gives the boldest take, then we'll play it. Be bolder than Stugatz's audience.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Yeah, I'm not going to lie. Overall, I'm feeling less confident than I was before this segment just because of how this segment has started. But I have two nominees here. I have one from Bill Simmons. And one from Colin Cowherd.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Let's do Bill Simmons first, talking about the Pittsburgh Steelers.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
That was 14 days ago. Oh, no. No, it wasn't. It was mid-December. What's the math on that? More than 14 days ago. 14 sounds good, though. It was like 27 days ago. Mid-December.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
We got a better one, though. We have Colin Cowherd comparing Lamar Jackson and Sam Darnold.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
He's saying that about Sam Darnold. There's some Andrew Luck in Sam Darnold.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
This was recent also, in December.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
My favorite is the bottom right one where it's just like someone doing surgery and it's just Brad Pitt's face popping up.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
I'm trying to find the level of celebrity that I might fall for something like this. Like if Josh Gad reached out to me. That's a really good one. Local South Florida guy.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
I'm trying to find the celebrity out there that if I got an email and there's a bunch of pictures and I'm like, hey, I need $70,000 by tomorrow. I'd be like, I got to help Josh Gad. You have $70,000?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
He'll be Josh Glad. But I'm just saying, that's the level.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
dollars I'd probably set up like a three-way zoom with me my mom and Josh Gad and like let's really talk this out how can we do this he'd be Josh glad he would for the help he would but that
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Folks, the playoff season is here, and the only thing better than the game day predictions are the foods that come with them. Introducing Tums Fantasy Food Ball Pool, brought to you by Tums, America's number one anti-acid brand and DraftKings.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
I was just doing this more along the lines of an email I would actually believe. Whereas Brad Pitt, I would be like, someone's messing with me. Whereas if it was Josh Gad, I'd be like, this is so random.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Each week leading up to the big game, turn football into food ball by building your best game day plate for a shot at winning a share of $40,000 in cash prizes. Inspired by game day bites and tailgate treats, join the Tums Food Ball action during this playoff season's most heartburn-inducing times.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
And I've learned- Gad would be paying the copay.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
You're listening to DraftKings Network.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Your day just freed up, though. Kick, save and abuse.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Tony just sitting there fuming.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
That was low energy top five. That was like, oh, you guys want to go to Rose? All right. Oh, now you want my top five? Yes.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Nope, it was a seethe. I thought it was a bit until I heard the way he delivered the first top five, and I was just like, oh, this dude's mad.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
What was that story? Oh, my dog. All right, it's Christmas Eve. You're in your house. It's like, all right, I like this. Where are we going? And three minutes later, he's like, someone got a 40 burger.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
It doesn't seem like we're helping the conversation too much either. Right.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
But might we have defenders clearing out of the paint? Like, I've got to get out of here. I've got to make sure this is a two-pointer, not a three. But that would then make easier dunks because they're like, I want this to be worth two. I like where your head's at, Juju. I think we've just got to figure this out. Yeah, fine-tone it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Yeah, thank you, bro.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Like you end up feeling in a spot. I'm guilty now just responding with thanks or liking the message when really they didn't give you much more in terms of a birthday wish.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
This is a two birds kind of situation. You go get a toy, hop over there around 11, drop off the toy, get some lunch. Boom.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
Like Greg Cody does with me and my brother.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
If you're a parent like me, and you've gotten your kids way too much crap, take one of theirs. Give it away.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
No, I know. I didn't say it was.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
10 to 12 at Flanagan's. You can do, what is it, 7 to 2 p.m. right on our corner at the Corner Coffee Store. At the Elser.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
There's a lot going on.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
If you're at work right now and you can't do it today, we're going to be at Vivo Mall the next two days. Okay. So if you have time then and if you can't get in that window, the whole week you can come to the Elser at the Corner Coffee Store between 7 and 2 p.m.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
All righty then. Hey, Juju, how you doing? I'm doing pretty good, brother. Good to see you, man. I have an admission to make real quick. When I heard Christopher say, brought to you by, when I was a kid, and this is the truth. Oh, boy. No, I used to hear people say, brought to you by, and I always thought, for three years of my life, I thought it was brock to you by. V-R-O-C-K.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Yeah, back when I was like, you know, six, seven, eight years old, learning words, learning sentences, because it always sounded like it. Brock to you by, right? Am I wrong? No. He's right.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Juju, OK, thank you. I appreciate that universal support.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Brought to you by, because I heard him say it. And nobody denies that it sounds like brought to you by. It just doesn't make sense as brought to you by. OK, you could he could start saying brought to you by and then name a sponsor and the sponsor would never know the difference. Yeah, it would be fine. Yeah. OK, Juju, quick question. Yes, sir. What did we talk too much about today on the show?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
And the finalists are Heat slash Jimmy Butler or vampires?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
The Pressbox collection.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
My plaid shirts that I've worn for 40 years. No, my wife bought me three of these shirts. They're a slightly different color, black, dark blue, and slightly lighter blue. Bad arm week? Yeah, bad arm life. And so I'm wearing them continually now. I even wear them as pants. I wear shirts, and then I wear the shirt as pants. Yeah. And so I'm like wearing two shirts at once.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
These sleeves are all stretched out because they don't fit over my legs nearly as well as I thought they might.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
The point is, God's to-do list is pretty long, and the idea that you think that making your flight, you thank God for that, God doesn't give a shit whether or not you make your flight.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
And the hallucinogens you were on. Yep.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes (feat. JuJu Gotti)
Vindicated. Big win. Yeah. Whoop, whoop.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
I think he deserves a video. You know, not a statue, but the Basketball Hall of Fame door is very wide. Everybody gets in. So, he's a Hall of Famer, right? We agree on that? He's a future Hall of Famer. If we agree, and if he is associated with Indiana, if that's the franchise you think of when you think of Paul George, then that certifies him as deserving Not a statue, but a video.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
But that's an artificial rule, right? I mean, I agree that that's the modus operandi, but I think, for example, I think you should be letting the Hall of Fame as an active player if you're going to make it five years after retirement. That's another artificial rule.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
If you're a Peyton Manning at the end of his career, why not let an active player get that Hall of Fame honor while he's still playing?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
I think the opposite is more of a danger there. I think if you induct somebody into the Hall of Fame while they're still playing and then they throw 40 interceptions or get into some off field, you know, nightmare, then that is something that makes you go, wow, maybe we should wait five years, you know.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
Don Levitard. I want to address Tony and all men who would wear that shirt in public.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
Well, I think you have to start with championship-winning coaches. But Laron Yeager's distinction is always going to be that he was the first to get them to a Final Four, a major deal that we thought would be the beginning of the greatness of UM hoops, and it went downhill fast. But I think Laron Yeager was a victim of a sport. cannibalizing older coaches.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
I think Laraniega and coaches of his generation, they're running as hard as they can, but they're losing ground to NIL, to transfer portal. They just, they're not suited to that. They grew up in a different age of college basketball and the sport changed around them. And I don't think Laraniega wanted to or was equipped to reinvent himself. And he pretty much said that in his parting comments.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
The against the spread record sort of explains itself because when you make a Final Four that recently, there's the assumption, all right, this is a good program that's going to start being good again. And therefore, I think they're always going to be favored by more or an underdog by less than they should be because of that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
You said thank you for noticing. He mentioned it, for crying out loud. No, he does look good.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
I would be a threat to that DiMaggio crap streak because I'm the kind of guy who can crap on demand. Like, even if I don't have to go, I can do that. And I've learned over the past few years battling my chronic cough, I've learned that coughing really brings it on.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
Yes, it sure does. And I enjoy that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
Yeah, guy wants to learn, guy wants to earn. And, you know, so I crap on demand. So my stats would be illegitimate, I think, because if I want to average three craps a day for a month, I can do that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
You got to delegate.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
By the way, you're a little behind the times because of my instigation. About five, six or seven years ago, the NFL officially changed the name of it to Sad Sad Radio Row with a comma between the two sads.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
Yeah, you run out of ideas. You know, I want to play the Sad, Sad Radio Row song. And I don't care. Like me, perhaps the song hasn't aged well. It's not very good. Well, but it's a classic.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
I think you're maligning me.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
It's all he's got. It's valuable information.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know what? Ichiro used to have one of those. His interpreter was also paid to pretend like he farted when Ichiro let a pet.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
No, it is true.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
You're making... No, I witnessed it in the Marlins clubhouse. It's real. Like, it happened.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Asterisk Man's Thoughts On The Tribute Video
I did know.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
And I'm being told that in this game, this is a thing that Josh Allen does not know how to do against this quarterback who knows how to do it. But if I showed you the season statistically, if I didn't tell you it was Patrick Mahomes, I just showed you where he was under 4,000 yards for the first time. Three 300-yard games.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Among the quarterbacks this weekend who won throwing for an average of 166 yards because of how confining some of the defenses make these things. Do you guys believe... that you can articulate for me what knows how to win is beyond, I don't understand how they do that and they keep doing that, so they must know how to do that?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Yeah, but you say we've seen them do this before, and this is what I would tell you that we haven't seen. Everyone listening to this thinks Buffalo's better.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
But hold on a second. They weren't off last week. You're talking about because they have an extra day of rest? Or like because they weren't off last week? Kansas City's not having extra preparation. They played last week.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Okay, but we're talking about this game, and when I say that Buffalo is better, Mike, give me all the times Kansas City is a one-and-a-half point favorite at home in a playoff game with Patrick Mahomes. What was the spread in that Patriots game when the Patriots went in there and had what was, I thought, their most impressive victory of the entire Belichick era because...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
they were not as good as that Kansas city team. And they had the perfect game plan to just hold the ball all game. And they beat that Kansas city team in Kansas city, but Buffalo being only a one and a half point dog on the road says that the money says Buffalo's better. Like the, Here's what you have with Buffalo and Kansas City that's interesting. Kansas City's record is better.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
But if I give you all the other stats, including the quarterback, and don't tell you, if I just put them next to each other and say these people are playing these people, the only reason Kansas City is a favorite in this game by a point and a half, the only reason, is because people think that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
that they know how to do that, that they will not lose this game because Patrick Mahomes knows how to not lose this game, being 16-3 in the playoffs with the same number of wins already as Joe Montana.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I do want you guys to look up for me, though, in the Mahomes era here, how often they have been this small a favorite at home, because this is all about the point differential between these two teams. We've all seen Kansas City play all of these close games, and Buffalo... Blows people out more frequently. Almost never gets blown out. Neither does Kansas City.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
But we all remember watching Kansas City wheeze against Carolina this year. Just be overwhelming at every turn. What you've seen in the salary cap age as they've lost Tyreek Hill is basically Kansas City's offense gets 10 points shaved off it. They used to be a team you expected 30-plus points a game.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Now they're routinely in the low 20s because that's how they win football games with one of the, if not the youngest defense in the sport. But I'm not going to find a lot of times that there is the feeling that the team going into Kansas City to play in the cold is this small of an underdog. The money is telling you that they think Buffalo is better.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
And the reason that Kansas City can win is that know how to win with snow and home field.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Can you guys look up for me some of the statistical ranks of Patrick Mahomes this year so that people understand that he was between 10 and 15 and sometimes under 15 in some places where that offense was limited and frustrating?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Because this is not the Kansas City team you remembered, and it's getting credit based on previous incarnations of the Kansas City team because Travis Kelsey just had 117 of their 177 yards, and people are saying he can turn this on. Yeah. I've seen this happen before. He can have three straight 100-yard games because he can just flip a switch and say, I'm not hurt anymore.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
And Buffalo ended up winning that game?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Well, so forgive me for this, but because this game is something that I believe the audience, this is super weird, man. This is a super weird situation to have in a game. One of the quarterbacks has been far and away better than the other the entire season. And on top of that, has eliminated his primary weakness in such an enormous way that he's the best protector of the football in the sport.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
And I think people believe that he will fumble or get thrown interception on Sunday and that he will figure out a way to not be able to beat the guy who knows how to win because he's got to learn something about knowing how to win.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Would you drive an Oldsmobile Orsalak at Levitard Show?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Al Golden was coaching in that game. How about this? We haven't talked about this. Al Golden has refurbished himself. Al Golden is now a professional coach. I mean, I know he was a professional coach before, but he is now in the NFL. He has revamped his entire image. Al Golden is now pristine, is he not? He is a coveted person.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
We have. Rose has gotten into position. It has been very disappointing that we have said that we are going to support Pat Riley here and we are going to build a statue to Pat Riley that stands over the Miami Heats arena. And it's been embarrassing to me as somebody who's the founder of Metal Ark Media and feels like we should have pride and class in the things we do.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
It's been embarrassing to see that that inflatable... What do you call it, Jessica? Inflatable bar?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Yeah, people know what you're talking about there.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Yes. His name's Tooby. Thank you. It's pathetic.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Yeah, I stopped listening as soon as there were a bunch of numbers. You want more numbers? No, I do not. Although I do want you to appear every once in a while as the superhero who comes on and annoys people with math. Dog, you're the one asking for the numbers. I know, I know, I know. But people don't like the numbers. And then sometimes there are too many numbers.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
And in this particular case, we ended up with so many numbers that you guys just ended up confusing everybody with Bengals numbers that you couldn't tell whether they were right or not.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I don't believe that that's true.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I think it is. The only reason I stood next to him, he didn't feel like somebody who was substantively bigger than me. You're like 6'4". Yes.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Put it on the poll. Did you think or do you think Al Golden is 6'6"? Greg Cody covered the University of Miami, and for some reason, you didn't blanch at all at that beyond... You didn't know that, I should say. You just said wow in a way that suggested that you were super surprised by him being 6'6", even though you covered him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
We have with us what can be empirically called our most popular guest. I think that people here on the show listening to it will be surprised to learn that this is our most popular guest. But he is, without a doubt, the world's foremost public authority on UFOs. It is a field that is going mainstream. It is getting more transparency from Washington.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
He's got a new three-part docuseries called UFO Revolution, which you can stream for free on Tubi. And before I get... to all of the things going on in this world, Jeremy. Thank you for joining us, Jeremy Korbel. Again, always appreciate your time.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Before I get to what it is that you're chronicling these days most urgently, can you please tell me the starting point on how this became such an obvious lane for you to traffic in as a very smart business model? Because people are unusually fascinated by your expertise.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Mike Ryan has seen this documentary, UFO Revolution. I am told that we have a clip here to toss to because, again, people are unusually fascinated by this subject matter and more relevantly, unusually fascinated by recent developments that make this a more fertile time to actually believe with proof some of the things we're seeing and hearing. So let's play a clip from UFO Revolution.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
He's an investigative journalist and filmmaker. He's one of the world's foremost experts on the world of the unknown.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I know that the great disparity of attention is going to be sent the way of the Chiefs and the Bills as we get to the biggest football weekend before the biggest football weekend.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
But Jeremy, when you say that people are lying, like what are the most overt facts that you have that would suggest that we've been lied to for this long?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
But the other game, because it's a division game and because of a lot of other reasons, the quarterbacks aren't seen, don't have the history as the quarterbacks that we have in the other game where you've got Buffalo and Kansas City. Just say it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Jeremy, if I could, because people want so much information from you and I have so many questions, let me do this a little more rapid fire. I'm going to limit you 30 seconds each time to each answer. Question number one, what does your email inbox look like?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Of just people telling you, I saw this over here and it looked like a jellyfish and it was flying 100,000 miles an hour?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
It is sexier, but beyond that, I would ask you, what do I have to do with a quarterback to make Washington's story not feel like it's finishing a distant fourth place to these three other teams we're talking about? Because a rookie quarterback winning... Two road playoff games. Eli Manning cemented his Hall of Fame credentials by doing this through two postseasons.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Only 31% of Americans trust the mainstream media. It's a record low. Do you think Americans now prefer to believe independent journalists like you?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
TMZ presents UFO Revolution. It's a three-part event. It's now streaming on Tubi. The greatest example that you have of shocking evidence most recently is blank.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Does the government plan to tell us at any time soon that something is about to arrive from another place and land here in 2027?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Jeremy, I appreciate your time. We appreciate your perspective. Thank you for being on with us. I look forward to seeing this on Tubi. What you did to me there was unfair. It's a bit horrifying and delightful. Thank you. I appreciate it, Jeremy.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Thank you for your work. A lot of people really like him. I have an email I've been sent here that I find fairly shocking, and I just want to put it on all of you and see what you think. Reporting from Georgia. An emailer writes in, the people who cut the TSA line were Scott Van Pelt and Matthew Berry. Whoa. Can you confirm that silence is damning?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I don't think Eli Manning won another postseason game other than all the games he won on the road the two years he won the championship. But Jaden Daniels is now as...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
That is that report. That's interesting. I'm going to see if I can find out right now.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Would you like me to do that? Yeah.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I haven't called him in a long time. I'm hoping he doesn't answer. We're not live right now.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
It's only partially illegal what we're doing.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I don't want him to answer right now. I don't want to put him in this position, but you guys put me in this position.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
He did not answer. Go for Scott. But I want to accuse him of it publicly. Everyone, go ahead and accuse him of it publicly. Say it's being reported from Georgia via email. I did want to talk to Greg Cody about something that he was maintaining earlier that I thought to be a fairly shocking viewpoint, which is he came out and said that athletes need to do better about not getting robbed.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
a figure, someone who's probably just going to get better from here, probably just going to get physically bigger like Lamar Jackson from here because he's listed at 210 pounds, and I don't know a lot of quarterbacks right now that are going at listed for 215 pounds.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
So when I say Jaden Daniels is going to grow as a quarterback, what do I have to make the rookie quarterback for you guys to believe in the idea of, yes, I've already seen what Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes can do, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it. But I haven't seen the ceiling on what this is.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
This is just getting started, and it has a chance to go into the most hostile place with a player at that position who seems to show no fear of going in to hostile places. Like the mastery that you're getting from Jaden Daniels at the position as a rookie. Greg, you're an authority player. On football, how hard it is to play as a columnist for a long time in the Miami Herald.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I said before, Jaden Daniels is the best rookie quarterback since Dan Marino. Can you put into context what we're watching right now? A player who doesn't make mistakes when you're supposed to learn your way into the game by failing all over the place before you get to a level where we're watching something that you're taking out teams on the road.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
He is better at contested catches than anyone in the league. That's empirical. I don't think you can dismiss that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Please put it on the poll, please. Does Jaden Daniels have to have a better year next year this year? Have a better year next year this year?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
That's the reason that I'm finding this being in the shadows to be interesting, because we're about to have a leap in stardom if he wins one more game. Like...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I understand that football people know who this is, and I understand that all of us who are even casuals were like, yeah, Washington wasn't that good with those skill guys, and now they win games late, and he's unflappable, and he's just giving off this, to his locker room, to his city, and to a loser, he's giving off this, I got this, in a way that's impossibly cool.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I remember how Miami felt having Dan Marinos. having the sensation that everyone's talking about. But the leap he's about to take if he beats Philadelphia in Philadelphia, when we all know Philadelphia is better, and we're watching what is clearly the fourth best team. If Jaden Daniels can sneak in here somewhere, I don't know if people are rooting for it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I don't know what the United States is rooting for when it's Washington against Philadelphia. I know people this week got real prisoner of the moment saying that this Barkley is the biggest Barkley in the history of Philadelphia around this show, that Saquon is bigger than Charles. But Jane Daniels has a chance to do something uncommonly memorable here.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Do you guys think that what might happen to you would happen? What happened to me during Lions and Washington, where I'm watching the game, and I think going into the game, yeah, I'm rooting for Detroit. Of course I'm rooting for Detroit. Holy shit, I'm rooting for Washington. It starts happening, and I'm like, that changed on me while it was happening.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I believe what Jessica is saying is accurate. The most lovable, benign thing that America could get behind is long-suffering Bills Mafia fan base that when Mark Andrews does that, finds a way to donate thousands of dollars to Mark Andrews because consistently Bills Mafia is doing something that is both kind and passionate and not whatever you think of Philadelphia fans.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Even though that tailgating and breaking through flaming tables, like those people are nuts too, but they've got a charitable component and it masks some things. I think the Bills fan, 17 years without the playoffs before Josh Allen, four straight Super Bowls, losing all of them, an eternal echoing punchline. When you get your regional identity from being A Buffalo Bills fan.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
I brave the cold in order to support my team. Is that the team that America is rooting for because they're tired of Taylor Swift, tired of Kansas City, tired of Travis Kelsey, tired of Patrick Mahomes, and they want the Bills to not only win now, but then win in the next round no matter who's available.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Let me ask the group a question and I should tell everybody that we will have a bit of a skeletal show tomorrow in terms of staff because on Sunday we're going to do a watch party here where we go up to the biggest game and we're going to be here on Sunday doing a live show for you during the games, a watch along, a simulcast. We love doing these. You guys love watching them.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
Greg Cody will be here and we will have a more vigorous crew on Sunday than we have tomorrow. But the thing that I wanted to ask you about this, because it's been fairly amazing to watch Tom Brady hand over this particular mantle.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Jeremy Corbell and the UFO Revolution
The Chiefs are a confoundment, and just about anybody who's watching football would simply assign the weird math of this season, of them having two losses and all the games being close with, oh, they took this from Brady. They know how to win. It's a thing that they know how to do. But I'm being told that that's a thing that Jaden Daniels also knows how to do.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes With Juju Gotti
You said that, and Rosa's been an amazing star, but you said the breakout star, and we kind of back here said, well, hold on, there are other names on that list. Like, for instance...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes With Juju Gotti
To be fair, once they went from three to four, they started getting three legs right. Three, exactly. Atta boy.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes With Juju Gotti
Let's do Thursday as well.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: Spliff Notes With Juju Gotti
It kind of just fades away, though, after the first two rows.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code DAN at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop better hydration today using promo code DAN at liquidiv.com.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
It's funny when you go to the zoo and Romagill's like, wow, this bird has a six-foot wingspan. You're like, yeah, okay, buddy, all right, sure. And then they go like this and go, whew, and open it up, and it's literally the size of my wingspan.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
No, no, that's it. My boy, Sean. His other son, Don McGill. Yeah, exactly.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
No, yes, I will say yes.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
The rules kind of don't apply to you, though, Dan. Come on. No, no, no.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Thank you. Just in case you didn't know, I'm letting you know.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
He read through like 18 injuries in a matter of three seconds. He's the man. Incredible.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
I saw your face after, too, Dan. I didn't like that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
This episode of the Dan Levitard Show with Stu Gatz is sponsored by Liquid IV. The holidays are not a sprint, ladies and gentlemen. They are a marathon. It's a stressful, busy weekend, right? There's a lot of traveling, a lot of kissing babies, shaking hands, a lot of stuff. I'll see you next time. True to fruit flavors that keep you hydrated.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Find all your favorite hydration multiplier flavors on the website from acai berry and lemon lime to pina colada or choose from the line of sugar-free flavors like raspberry, melon, white peach, and green grape. Tear, pour, live more. One stick plus 16 ounces of water hydrates better than with water alone. Stay hydrated through the holidays with Liquid IV.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
It is in the dictionary. In good humor, happy, contented. Once he was gruntled... Wait a minute.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Craig was right. Disgruntled indeed came first. Wow. According to the chat GPT. Oh, okay.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
First uses. That makes sense. And indeed a back formation for disgruntled. Yeah. It's after the fact.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
It might actually go to full-fledged independence. There was an opportunity here if the ACC had foresight or strong leadership. They're absent of both. But in 2020, when Notre Dame was out of options in the COVID year, they joined the ACC for just one year.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
And the ACC allowed for a situation in which Notre Dame got all the benefit of that, got to host an entire football season, otherwise they wouldn't have, and they got nothing in return, including $0 from a team that is basically an ACC team making it to the CFP.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
I know that Greg's trying to take away their independence. I'm not. I'm just taking the opportunity to slam the ACC for bad leadership.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Very hot. He's also dying his hair now.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Yeah, he's dying his hair now.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Phones on the TV can tend to make things look worse, but yes, he's dying his hair.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
And the hairline isn't bad. He's just dying to keep it looking good.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Whoever did that certainly touched up Jeremy's eyebrows today. Something is going on.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
It doesn't happen to folks that aren't trying to do something to their eyebrows already. Like, what is the story behind this? Was he trying to do something on his head and it slipped?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
I don't know, man. This story just doesn't make sense to me. I don't see it like, whoops. Well, you're not cutting your own hair, Mike. The old slip. No, but when I try to manicure my own eyebrows, I might make a mistake. So I think that perhaps the intention here wasn't the side of the head. The intended target was indeed the eyebrow, and someone just overplayed it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
You offered camera time to Mike Fuentes.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Dan did it. It would have been a lot funnier if you had him. Wait a minute.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
You know what? What a fanfare he was met with when that door opened.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
That was good. What about the embodied ones? You can join them, but don't shave off those beautiful eyebrows of yours today. I don't know what it is you're doing, pal, but I'm on you.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Yeah, you without eyebrows. Eyebrows are probably your signature feature. You don't think so? No. He's either known for beard or eyebrows. He's got unique eyebrows.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
I could have gone Groucho Marx, but I feel like Eugene Levy was inspired.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
I also like that that was my contemporary reference, Eugene Levy. Yeah, and then you went to Marx. I could have gone Julia Fox. The absence of eyebrows is also an eyebrow.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
I mean, don't play a semantics game. That was a good answer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
No, I know who she is.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Zachary Kinto.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
slash dan hey howdy listener why don't you sit down here next to me let's have a fireside conversation in the winter this is all theater of the mind anyways weather outside is a little chilly let's warm up let's cozy up not just to each other but also to that beautiful white can of miller light that's right make these moments even better with miller light the great tasting light beer for people who love beer a new year is a perfect time for friends family and great tasting light beer
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Tastes like Miller time. You know, as the football games get bigger, everybody's talking about hosting parties. It's always difficult. Everyone's got an opinion. Why don't you just bring out a nice cooler of Miller Lights and make everybody happy? You could be on opposite sides of the big game, but you still know that you are brought together. By Miller Time. Miller Lite is a great unifier.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers. The original light beer since 1975 and still the very best one. Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to MillerLite.com slash Dan. Find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tastes like Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
But Pat Riley usually takes any opportunity in front of a microphone to say something that you can take out of context.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
So, do you think... And let me get out in front of this and say shame on you if you try to take any of this interview out of context, especially to get extra eyes on this great episode that we are presently promoting on the lower third with a graphic on DKN saying Pat Riley joining us on South Beach Sessions. I'm worried about all of this.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
And are you saying within this interview, there is the opportunity to pile on by taking something out of context to help further our own agenda?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
See, you're doing it for the internet. We have just killed Pat Riley. Yeah. $50 fine. You know, you mentioned Matthew Coogler, and I agree. It is a rarity in this industry when you have a producer that doesn't want to be on camera at all. Because every producer just ends up being so hungry. And if you give them a little, they try to take the entire mile. And Matthew Kugler is just cut differently.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
He is someone that all producers should look at and admire.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
This is the timing you want. Because, again, Dan, I know personally it might put you in a bit of a bind if someone takes something out of context from this interview and it becomes a whole thing. But it really helps us. And also, Pat's probably going to do that on his own anyway and spin it into, I meant to do that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
Your voice sounds like music is what he's trying to say. Thank you. Congrats. You do something with your eyebrows?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Disgruntled Off Between Jimmy Butler And Tyreek Hill
You guys keep saying this, and you're right, I despise him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
It should be noted that Favre and Strahan had had, before that sack, a long friendship throughout the NFL, throughout their careers.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
So there's a 30 for 30 that ESPN is doing on the sack exchange, not on the jet, just on the sack exchange, Gaston O'Lyons, Abdul Salam, that crew. And so this is part of that. This is him at a memorabilia show. Brett Favre happens to be.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
I hate that rule. You shouldn't have to announce an onside kick. The element of surprise is what makes an onside kick.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
He wants the record back. He feels like the record is his, and it was given to Michael Strahan by Brett Favre. He almost says it in a way like, if you let me sack you right now, we'll be good.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
You can understand that, though, from Gastineau, right? That's all he has. Mark Gastineau had the sack record. He has nothing else. That's what he has. And he feels like Brett Favre gave it to Michael Strahan.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
There's a lot of sadness there. You heard it? It's Gastineau limping around. I feel bad for him. It's Brett Favre's presence. And they're at a memorabilia show.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
But your body feels like one.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
Dougats here. Right now, my friends over at SimpliSafe are extending their massive Black Friday deal for our Levitard Show listeners. SimpliSafe is the home security I trust to keep my home and family safe. I've been telling you that for years. This is your last chance to protect your home at SimpliSafe's lowest prices of the year.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
SimpliSafe is a new way to protect your home that stops intruders before they break into your home. Old school systems only take action once someone is already inside your home. That's too late. SimpliSafe's active guard outdoor protection changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. SimpliSafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners this week only.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
You can take 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is your last chance to claim their best offer of the year. Head to simplisafe.com slash DLB to claim your discount and make sure your home is safe this season. Don't wait. This offer won't last long. Keep your home, your family, and your peace of mind protected with SimpliSafe. There's no safe like SimpliSafe.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Mike Schur's 2024 Meadowlark Observations
It's not secret ballots. This was Zach Bryan, right? Yes.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The 70-Point Miami Dolphins vs. The 1972 Miami Dolphins
He averaged 100 yards per game in the playoffs.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The 70-Point Miami Dolphins vs. The 1972 Miami Dolphins
Really?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: The 70-Point Miami Dolphins vs. The 1972 Miami Dolphins
Let's get out of here.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated. Dosh cash back terms apply.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
I did see that, and it is on my list of things that I need to watch. Plus, I have a soft spot for Kim. We all know that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
This is like the third season of this show. There are certain shows that are Fox shows. We all know there's Fox shows.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
Wasn't Billy. There's a Baldwin.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
Steven.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
And with celebrity adjacent people.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
This is exciting. This is the third season of this.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
It would be weird, though. Look, I don't want to put this out there, but what if you were to hear, yeah, Cam Newton was decapitated by a military helicopter. What? Yeah, he was filming a show, and he's just so tall that he stood up on the side of it, and it took off his head. Wow. It'd be a terrible way to go, right?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
Is Steelers fan a bit, or that's real?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
And Notre Dame?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
He was trying not to get hit, and it did not work out that way for him at all.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
That's offensive. It's all right. It was offensive.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
No bedside manner.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
Is that a new one? Yeah. Can't you tell? When did you get it?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
Is it? Is that known? The best licorice is from Australia?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
Ooh, the first item of business... You're really putting me through the ring right here. What was the first thing we talked about? The actual first thing we talked about? Like on the day? Like how do we start the show? Am I getting kicked out? I see you fumbling over there. I'll just go.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
You know that sound. It's the sound of money hitting your Venmo account. A friend paying you back. Or maybe it's getting cash back from your favorite business when you pay with the Venmo debit card. Or it's realizing you can pay with Venmo at checkout at thousands of brands. Now, there are so many more ways to answer the question, what's your Venmo? Download Venmo today.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: NFL Playoff and College Football Playoff Reaction
Rambling. Good shift for the GDF crew.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
I would like not to just get to discussion items. I'd like to move. through the agenda if we possibly can.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
But I don't have to be here. There's three of you, which makes it clear.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
I said we would take it up in order.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
Commissioner Gabella, I have a commitment.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
We have other work to be done. We will go in order as we always do.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
If that's your position, because I'm not going to take the discussion items out of order. If that's your position and you leave, we won't have any more commission meetings. If that's what you want. No, it's a discussion item. Again, if we can have some training on... The agenda process and how this commission should work with protocols.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
I would appreciate that because I don't want it to seem as if I'm being unfair. You're being unfair because I am not being harassed. I am being harassed, ma'am.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
#BecauseMiami: The Death of Cuban Exceptionalism
The commission meeting is now in recess. I will not be here. My commissioners are here. It's three. They have a quorum. Okay, so then the commission meeting has now resumed. The commission... Thank you. The commission has recessed. Thank you. The commission meeting is over. Thank you.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
This episode is brought to you by Bleacher Report. How do you follow sports? From college football to the NBA, Bleacher Report brings you the latest news, live scores and epic highlights from your favorite leagues, teams and athletes all in one app.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
That's me. You're just saying what? That's me.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Lincoln, who you outed the other day? Don't make this a rejoin. This is the Dan Levitar Show with the Stugats.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Dive into exclusive shows hosted by your favorite athletes and original Bleacher Report series with breaking news, rumors and predictions all season long. Download Bleacher Report to personalize your coverage.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Today's episode is sponsored by DraftKings. Stay tuned because you'll hear more about DraftKings and all it has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings, the crown is yours.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
And he didn't even let Gonzo laugh on that one.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
I just need to butt in real quick. Tim, you're breaking your own rule. You're wheezing into your microphone. Oh, God. Yeah.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
i'm sorry i yelled at these guys for like 10 minutes about not doing that and then i'm the one that's doing it so i i apologize it's that sleep apnea it's coming back so you know i i think that my politics and political evolution it it happened earlier than than zach but um when i got out of the army in 2007 i i was self-described far right now that term doesn't mean today what i feel it
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
Back then, this was pre-Tea Party. But I was – the first political awakening that I ever had was Ron Paul, was libertarianism, was get the government out of my life. As someone in the army, I was – uniquely sensitive to the government being in my life. And that perhaps drove me really hard in that direction.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
But we are proof that you can go from regular Republican, Libertarian, even Donald Trump Republican over to, I think, the side that supports reality in today's politics. Because I'll be honest, I went to college after those Ron Paul years. And it was only then that like I studied economics 101 and I was like, oh, okay, I'm a fucking moron. So let me shut up for a little bit and learn some more.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
He's got all the money in the world. That's right.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
Let me back up, Zach, on that. So I think the metaphor of like Democrats wanting a bar fight is something that resonates with me as a former bar fighter. I used to love bar fights until I lost one and I had my left orbital shattered and a bubble on my brain. I think that when you get your ass kicked, you do learn valuable lessons. I have not been in a bar fight since that. It was Leap Day 2008.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
So it was February 29, 2008. My life changed for the better, almost dying. But I approach this as a policy wonk. So that's not what most people know me as, but I'm a former lobbyist. I used to work for a major veteran service organization. So- You know, going through budgets and authorizations and all that shit is kind of my thing.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
Like knowing these departments and these federal agencies, some of them inside and out, it has been my job. for a long time. And the thing that Schumer failed to message on and what he should have messaged on if the ultimate decision was going to be that he would not go with the shutdown was that if you shut down the government, Trump and Musk get to choose what opens back up.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
They are given the power to slow walk reopening things. So we could have, if we, the Democrats, if we, the liberals, the progressives, whatever, encouraged our Democrats, Schumer, to stick to his guns and to shut down the government, we would have achieved everything that Musk and the doggy boys have sought out to do in completely dismantling agencies.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
Because once those federal workers get furloughed, During a shutdown, the president has the power as to when they get turned, you know, when the machines get turned back on. And he could simply say, well, no, they're already off. I'm not turning them back on.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
Tim, I want to fulfill a promise. So to my Substack followers, to people on TikTok, I teased something. I said, you're going to find out a big update, not just about the podcast, but about me personally. So you guys already know this. Nobody else does. But I'm about to be a girl dad.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
And I want people to take that not just as an announcement about me, but as an idea of what they're going to hear about on this podcast. I never wanted kids. I'm about to turn 40. I'm about to have a baby girl. And I'm going to be bringing a baby girl into Trump's America. And that is something that a lot of older millennials are reaching this point.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
They're doing what my wife and I just did, going through IVF. And now we're facing bringing a little girl into a world that has fewer rights than her mother was born with. So... I needed to fill that promise for all of my followers. Um, but you know, I, I just want to thank all you guys for, for being in this with me.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
I'm, I'm looking forward to having some fun and, uh, hearing from our audience on, you know, whether or not we're, we're bombing on this first episode.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
in the army is that correct i was yeah once upon a time i was a forward observer in the united states army um now i've got kind of a weird job i'm a professional nazi hunter um so that's what most of the people who are following me to this podcast know about me uh but you know i've been in the non-profit space for about 20 years and i have i have watched um
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
Now, with hindsight, I understand what has happened. I have watched right wing billionaires kind of groom guys like Pete Hegseth and Charlie Kirk by supporting not just them projecting their messages forward out into the public, as I have done through nonprofit, but to create a sustainable business. And what they did was they recognized a market demand.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
And I think that all of us recognized a market demand on TikTok. My first viral video of any kind ever was when I think I saw Vic's video and I basically did a riff off of it and I started it off kind of trolling. And I was like, I am a...
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
combat veteran i am a bearded tattooed business owning job creator i pay more taxes than most people in this entire country i drive a pickup truck i have a concealed carry license You really think that I'm voting for Harris? You're damn right I am. And people lost their fucking minds.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
And what I realized was that there are, I think, too few of us who are willing to come forward and say, you know what? We need to get out there and we need to project our voices into this and we need to fill the vacuum that has been left by left-wing Democrat, progressive, whatever you want to call them, you know, funders. You know, I am a nonprofit CEO. I run two nonprofits, right?
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
It's a constant struggle. Pete Hegseth and I got started at the same time. He was pro-Iraq war and I was anti-Iraq war. That motherfucker, excuse me, that guy- is the Secretary of Defense. And I'm still scraping pennies together trying to make, you know, trying to run veterans fighting fascism to stop a fascist takeover of the country, right?
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
So that was an investment that Sheldon Adelson and the Koch brothers made in Vets for Freedom and I conserved Veterans for America two decades ago, and this is what they've got. So my objective here is to convince not just the grassroots, but the people who are moving money, the people who are moving the resources. That they need to find somebody half my age. I'm going to be 40 this year.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
They need to find people half my age and invest in them now because that's how Charlie Kirk built an empire. It wasn't because he was a genius. It wasn't because he was pitching something unique. It was because he had support.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
Yeah. You know, it's funny. Can I riff off that real quick? Yeah. What Luke is getting at, this like channeling of rage, is something that I have done professionally for a long time. And I think that it's something that's really frowned upon in progressive and liberal circles is to like acknowledge that you are rageful, right? Instead, you're supposed to therapy it away.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
No, you can't hunt fucking Nazis for a living and not be a rage fill like maniac. Right. Like and somebody needs to do what I do. Right. So what Luke is channeling right here.
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
I hope that people are willing to invest in because what Luke is doing is helping other people of his demographic understand that there's a platform to stand on and people like us, we can take heat in ways that other people with other identities can't. Going back to my job, the reason I can do my job is because if I call the cops because
The Find Out Podcast
Welcome to the Find Out Podcast
something's going on i don't have to be afraid of those cops right so so that is why i feel an obligation to do that and i know nazi hunting seems pretty different from podcasting but the world that we live in today is like every one of us all of us who become creators and express our opinions every one of us gets threats nowadays right like it's it's not just for people in the hard jobs
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
My name's Chris. So eyeglasses to people that can't see.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
specifically nice uh targeted yeah ideally right so specifically trying to uh target a piece of that which is not just your primary pair which is like i can't see i need to see but more specific things like driving office that kind of stuff a little bit more of those task specific things so this is going to sound funny here but basically we do zero dollars in revenue
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
I'd love to be at a hundred million. You use zero dollars? Yeah. So I'm going to tell you why. So basically I have a business that I'm exiting 10 locations, you know, like 20 million. So what I'm here for is to understand like, well, if I'm going to start this, let me start at the best. Well, what's the best vehicle? Those kinds of things. So that's why like, yeah.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
Yeah, we have 10 brick and mortar.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
So that's kind of the question is really, it's like, do I go brick and mortar? So I could either use doctors as affiliates, et cetera. But the problem there is that their sales teams that otherwise don't tend to sell these glasses well. So I'm on the eye doctor. And so part of this is coming from knowing these common like five things that people just- My mother and grandfather are ophthalmologists.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Well, you know this well then, I guess. So those common things are not being addressed well because it's just not communicated well, all the things. So then I have to like figure out how to get them to sell the product that I'm making, which is like a whole challenge itself. Or do I just sort of go more of the path of like direct to consumer and that kind of thing?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
And whether it be brick and mortar or combo of online...
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
Yeah. Small follow-up to that would be then is, so in the vein that that's the ultimate goal, I know that, well, in order to get there, solving that problem means that I probably need to do this X, Y, Z here for that practice so that eventually I'll be able to do what I want. That's, I guess, okay to sort of take that approach, that longer tail approach of it. Nothing's fast. Yeah. Well, sure.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
No, I was just being like super real. Just more from, obviously, experience of seeing it and going like, oh, that's a stupid path versus... No, I think either of those paths would work.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
No, you bet. My name is Christian and I sell solar to homeowners and we do $20 million in revenue a year. I'd like to be at 160 million in revenue. The biggest thing that's stopping me is we can recruit unlimited appointment setters. The reps that we bring on are independent contractors, so there's not a high cost there.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
The biggest bottleneck is that although we could bring on unlimited appointment setters, we need the leaders to be able to help scale. You all right? Arm hair. We need the leaders to help, you know, obviously lead those guys through the job, help hold them accountable. And we have a lack of leaders issue where we don't recruit externally, like from other companies to take leaders from.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
It's not my preference. I like to develop them internally, but it also comes at the cost of it's very slow to develop leaders.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
Um, it's been five years now. Okay. Yeah.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
Yeah. I mean, just thinking out loud, I'd prefer to grow slower, but like, obviously it would be really cool to have my cake and eat it too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess is, is there an intermediary road where.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
How can I guess the, probably the question is how can we help grow and develop leaders quicker within our organization?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
We have roofing companies.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
Okay. One challenge I have is like, I've tried to shift the culture. We've like put together a leadership development program, but I noticed that what will happen is some of the sales people will start focusing on the leadership development stuff. And then their sales volume goes down.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
And so when I was like a sales leader, like running a team, I was a really good player coach and I'd lead from the front, just closing a shit ton of deals.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
And for context, the reason I like lean towards player coach sometimes is because there's shared risk, like mutual risk, because we're going out and knocking on doors every day. And if your sales leader isn't doing that to some extent.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 881
Beautiful. Thank you, Alex.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Fix These Bottlenecks to Scale Past $1M | Ep 891
wow you have you have ai here already narrow link something like this i prepare a little bit different question thank you thank you i promise that you don't remember me and we sell crypto education to a wide audience and mostly who want to meet their basic needs so there are no specific audience we make over 1 million in revenue we operate in ukraine and are watching in other countries
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Fix These Bottlenecks to Scale Past $1M | Ep 891
I want to reach 10 million. I more or less understand how by expanding to new markets. And we run cold traffic from Meta, Google, Influencers, Telegram and etc. through funnels. And one AutoWebinar funnel had generated over $20 million and still working. And we tested VSL. We put the same content in our AutoWebinar, but shorter and without comments, activities.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Fix These Bottlenecks to Scale Past $1M | Ep 891
We tested advertorials, we tested lead magnets, funnels, and nothing works as well as AutoWebinar funnel. That's where the magic happens. Where we are creating new AutoWebinar funnels, and testing new topics, even new faces within these funnels. And I want to reach the audience that doesn't attend webinars. And my big question is how to find best practices and what else could hypothetically work.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Fix These Bottlenecks to Scale Past $1M | Ep 891
And I'm reading your book about offers right now. And it's inspired me to build funnels for specific high paying segments instead of just wide audience. And I'd like to ask you your opinion about this. And is it the right way that I think right now?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Fix These Bottlenecks to Scale Past $1M | Ep 891
Yes, I understood. We do upsells, we have continuity, we have high-ticket products inside, and we, I think, do everything. The main point is what best practices in funnels can work with us. Maybe I don't understand clearly about Google. Yeah, Google banned us every day and we can work with our crypto. We are not a crypto project.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Fix These Bottlenecks to Scale Past $1M | Ep 891
Got it. Thank you so much.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Yeah, no. I'm restarting... I'm restarting that company. And... So there's a long story in that. But my question is a personal question.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
So... I'm a father, single father. I got two boys here. And my name is DJ Christofferson. There we go. I sell people to people. I'm restarting my virtual staffing company. And we're currently at zero revenue. It's just a matter of getting started. And so we're really confident in that. My question is on a more of a personal one. So I'm a single father in a serious relationship. And...
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Hey, Alex. My name is Chris, and I have a question about a business I'm starting soon, so I have no numbers right now. For my background, I'm a physiotherapist and chiropractor. I have an academy where I teach medical professionals in my own concept called Crack and Move. And I'm doing social media. Okay. And I invented a tool where you can crack yourself, your back. Self-crack, if you will.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
More like a BlackRock faster roll, but really intense and good. And you can use it as a customer for your own. for your better posture and pain relief. But also the professional, especially some small women with some techniques problems. You're a big guy, so when I want to crack you, I have to need a... I'm a small guy, so sometimes it's really hard.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
And I would like to know, would you focus on one group for selling B2C? For example, just the customer for the problem-solving of cracking themselves? And with a posture program and everything, or just the medicals. And I have the medicals also in my academy with affiliate or both.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
I can if I want. I have a waiting list. But you have a practice? Yeah, I have.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Yeah, because of scaling the tire.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
With my academy, I started one year ago, and we have 500K.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Because it solves some problems, and I found out because I have a... Why not build newspapers?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
I could. Right. Because of maybe your social media, I have an audience. I have customers who are awaiting this. I have the problem that many people want the treatment. I can't give them. So I built some special list in them.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Yeah. I have some partners in it. So I just have to do the marketing and the development of the tool itself. And we already did it. So it's ready to launch. But the problem, yeah, it's maybe, you know, sometimes it's boring just to do one thing at once. But in business wise, maybe it's better.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Good question. Of course, I want to make money. But of course, I want to do very nice products who have a nice impact.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
i think the focus so that's the problem you want focus and you want to do that by doing more things yeah and the problem is that's so combined to my brand so um i have the problem that i can't i have so many customers i can't offer offer them anything so i have limited time with my own treatments so i need time to develop uh some uh we have the academy sorry you have the academy though
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Yeah, but it's very hard to teach them my concept because it takes half a year so they can implement it in their own office. So I try to reduce it as a hybrid model with online and everything. But it takes time because of the brand protection quality because I send them my customers. And when my customers go to them, I want that high treatment, higher treatment.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
And the problem is that the onboarding takes so long that the customers want a treatment and I have no time. The people I'm teaching need time to learn it and get expert in it.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Yeah, but the problem is the social media makes all the followers just going through it.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Yeah, the problem is that the customers are now a little bit sad because they... I have no offer for them.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
More like an advice of focusing on just the professional.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
You're doing several things at once, right?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
You're also doing something. Fiveacquisition.com. Yeah, you just have all the... I own one business. Yeah.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Are those different businesses at all? What? Okay, product. So your book is also different. No.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Okay, so also things I'm not doing in my daily business and when I'm starting a different business. For example, the product, I'm just doing my marketing, the development I'm doing also. I did it. And everything else, so like targeting the group and strategies, I don't have any clue. I should not. So I'm here just taking the question.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Okay, that's a good answer. Great. Thank you.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
She's not a business person at all. Very sweet and supporting. But what would you say would be some things to prepare her for when it comes to... So your spouse or not spouse? Your partner? My partner. I mean, she doesn't live at the house yet. It's long distance, but it's coming together. But it's getting really serious. Okay.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Preparing her for being married to a type A... I think you should give her a try before you buy. Yeah?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Brutally Honest Business Advice | Ep 878
Yeah, that's true. That's perfect. No, I love it. That's, that's great. Crushed it.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
Yeah, all on Meta and YouTube. Okay.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
15,000 subscribers on YouTube and 12,000 followers on Instagram and 6,000 on Facebook.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
15% come from online and... Okay, where's the rest come from? The rest of it comes from referrals and networking and... Dude, get agents.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
from your organic no most of it's coming from for sure that and then the challenge with the agents that we originally it was all me teaching people how to do that how to go go out there and get business go network go join bni chamber of commerce whatever that's what worked for me and then we would get good people that were like hey i don't have any network so i said all right and they asked where what leads were and i said all right so let me go create leads and
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
And we started calling business owners, because that's who I was selling to. But they were not showing up, and they weren't really busy. Whatever we were offering wasn't whatever. Then I reread $100 million offers and $100 million leads. And I looked at the value equation. I said, the best value I can give is to real estate investors. So let me go get real estate investor leads.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
And then we're calling them all day long, and the people that I'm hiring don't know how to communicate with them properly. So they end up just setting up appointments, and then they hand them back off to me. And they're good, but I think it comes down to recruiting. People want leads. The first question, where do we get your leads?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
If you say you have to go generate your leads, they might go look at somewhere where they give them leads. So we started giving people leads. So we make an offer to recruits.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
And the 20 people that we have out of 29 that are just simply coming in and cold calling real estate investors all day right now that are setting up an insane amount. I think our offer is not great, so I'm going to the drawing board with that. But all those people, now I've got to go teach them. I'm just teaching them how to cold call.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
They are cold calling now. Well, they're coming in. I'm teaching them to cold call.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
Rather than coming in and teaching them to go shake hands and kiss babies.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
I'm a father, single father. I got two boys here. And my name is DJ Christofferson. There we go. I sell people to people. I'm restarting my virtual staffing company. Cool. And we're currently at zero revenue. It's just a matter of getting started. Okay. And so we're really confident in that. My question is on a more of a personal one. So I'm a single father in a serious relationship.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
And she's not a business person at all. Very sweet and supporting. But what would you say would be some things to prepare her for
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
I mean, she doesn't live at the house yet. She's it's long distance, but it's coming together, but it's getting really serious.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
Preparing her for being married to a type a, I think you should give her a try before you buy. Yeah?
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Transitioning From Dying Business Models | Ep 853
Yeah. That's true. That's perfect. No? I love it. That's great.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Hey Alex, my name is Chris and I have a question about a business I'm starting soon. So I have no numbers right now. For my background, I'm a physiotherapist and chiropractor. I have an academy where I teach medical professionals in my own concept called Crack and Move. And I'm doing social media. Okay. And I invented a tool where you can crack yourself, your back.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Self-crack, yeah. More like a Black Roof Hustler role, but... uh, really intense and good. And you can use it at the customer for your own, for your better posture and pain relief, but also the professional for, especially some, um, small woman have, um, with some techniques problems. You can go, you're a big guy. So when I want to crack you, I have to, uh, need a, I'm small guy. So,
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
sometimes it's really hard and i would like to know would you focus on one group for selling b2c for example just a customer for the problem solve of cracking themselves and with the posture program and everything or just the medicals and i have the medicals also in my academy with affiliate or both and so you are a chiropractor yeah and you no longer have your practice I can if I want.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
I have a waiting list.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yeah, I have.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yes, in my concept.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yeah, because of scaling time.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
It was my academy. I started one year ago and we have 500K.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
because it solves some problems and I found out because I have a why not sell newspapers you know what I mean like sell orange juice people are thirsty I could right no I'm being real because of my maybe a social media I have an audience I have customers who are a waiting list I have the problem that many people want a treatment I can't give them so I built some specialist you already have two businesses yeah and you have a third business and it's a physical product it's a totally different business
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yeah, but I have some partners in it who know, so I just have to do the marketing and the development of the tool itself. And we already did it, so it's ready to launch. But the problem... Maybe, you know, sometimes it's boring just to do one thing at once. But business-wise, maybe it's better. What's your goal? Good question. Of course, I want to make money.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
But of course, I want to do very nice products who have a nice impact of the... Yeah, but what do you want to have happen from that? I think the focus. So that's the problem.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yeah. And the problem is that's so combined to my brand. So I have the problem that I can't, I have so many customers, I can't offer them anything. So I have limited time with my own treatments. So I need time to develop some. Well, you have the Academy.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yeah, but it's very hard to teach them my concept because it takes half a year so they can implement it in their own office. So I try to reduce it as a hybrid model with online and everything. But it takes time because of the brand protection quality, because I send them my customers. And when my customers go to them, I want that high treatment, high end treatment.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
And the problem is that the onboarding takes so long that the customers want a treatment and I have no time. The people I'm teaching need time to learn it and get expert in it.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yeah, but the problem is the social media makes all the followers just going through it.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Yeah, the problem is that the customers are now a little bit sad because I have no offer for them.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
I have no offer.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
More like an advice of focusing on just the professionals.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
You're doing several things at once, right? What? You're also doing several things. I have acquisition.com. Yeah, you just have all that. I own one business. Yeah.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Are these different businesses at all? What? Okay, product. So your book is also different. No.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
This is good.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Okay, so also think the things I'm not doing my daily business. And when I starting a different business, for example, the product, I'm just doing my marketing, the development, I'm doing also, I did it, and everything else. So like, targeting the group and strategies, I don't have any clue. I should not. So I'm here just I'm taking the question.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
It's more like what you focus on in this part when you have a selling group.
The Game with Alex Hormozi
Strategic Business Advice That Applies To Every Business | Ep 840
Okay. That's a good answer. Great. Thanks a lot. Yeah.
The Glenn Beck Program
Best of the Program | Guest: Anson Frericks | 2/20/25
Yeah, so one of the things that I'm looking at is your idea of the purpose. And then the other side of this is I work in the industry and We seem to be talking a lot about the same kind of application of technology with research and all of that. My focus on it is how do we use AI future in different ways to the masses instead of in these boxes that the tech companies have.
The Glenn Beck Program
Best of the Program | Guest: Anson Frericks | 2/20/25
Massive boxes, complex boxes, cool boxes, but still just boxes in the grand scheme of life. And I think that you mentioned a while back in the Ray Kurzweil interview about self-driving cars. And I remember him saying that, well, people had no problem with that because it was expected. We're entering into that world of kind of unexpected.
The Glenn Beck Program
Best of the Program | Guest: Anson Frericks | 2/20/25
And I think there's going to be a little bit of pushback and a little bit of resistance. And that's good, because to your point about the questioning and the adoption of the technology. Can it be done? Yes. Will people use it? As you get closer and closer and closer to everybody having that conversation about What this will do for me.
The Glenn Beck Program
Best of the Program | Guest: Anson Frericks | 2/20/25
I think there's going to be a lot of people that won't adopt it necessarily as fast as maybe you're thinking.
The Joe Budden Podcast
Episode 803 | "One More Dance"
N-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-
The Joe Budden Podcast
Episode 803 | "One More Dance"
Kids have questions about that? About your relationship?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
And I think she's starting to get it. And if I could heal that part of myself, so much would change. So much of my day would be free to think of other things that really matter.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
The relationship with myself is the hardest part. I've always been a punisher, whether it was through diets and food emotionally or drinking, I always inflict some kind of pain on myself and punish myself for letting people down or feeling like I wasn't good enough in a group of people. And it's getting so exhausting being this mean to myself. And I don't know what it's like to not be that way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
And if I could heal that part of myself, so much would change.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
One of the worst parts about it is me feeling crazy or feeling that nobody else will understand this feeling. Why am I like this? I'm really scared of passing this along to my kids. I think that is the big realization for me. I can't do this to my kids. I don't ever want them to feel like They have to perform for everybody and be good all the time. But I know that sometimes I probably am that way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
I do want them to be the most polite. And I don't want people to think that they're just celebrity asshole kids. And so I might go harder the other direction to make sure that they don't come off that way. And I really need to break that because I'm okay. And this is another reason I'm in therapy. I'm okay with...
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
me getting the shit end of the stick on anything or living this life where I'm stressed and in pain, but I'm not okay with them. Yeah. Well, I can see it really bothers you. Yeah. Yeah, because I see how much my... interactions with adults as a child affected me from so many different layers, from whether it was sexual or the reason I became such a people pleaser.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
And that was through sleeping with people. It travels so far in my life. It's not just that I wanted to smile and say my little Thai words for people. It went in, it started that way, yes. But then I ended up believing, sorry, I ended up believing that I was for everybody and my body was for everybody. And it took a hold on every part of my life. And as you can see, it still has a hold on me now.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
So I cannot imagine this for my kids. I hope that they don't want to please everybody in life. And I hope that they know that Their body is their own, their mind is their own, their actions are their own, and they can't control other people. I cannot have them live this way that I live.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
It always amazed me that I was the give no fucks girl. I'm like, you guys have no idea how many fucks I give.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
It always amazed me that I was the give no fucks girl. I'm like, you guys have no idea how many fucks I give. Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
She said... One of the worst parts about it is me feeling crazy or feeling... that nobody else will understand this feeling. Why am I like this?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
The one thing I wish I could change was that I wish I weren't so misunderstood and I wish people knew how good I was. And it's so desperate sounding and so sad, but that for me is my biggest battle in life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
Oh, God. I think one of the only fights we really get in is about scheduling or being home enough, being together enough without kids.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
My daughter, Kendall, I love her to pieces. Yeah, the kid thing is easier for me. I probably have, because the kids can drive you crazy, but John is so even keeled and just... But doesn't that drive you crazy?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
Yes, actually. Yes, I want some passion sometimes. I want him to get mad at me. I want him. But yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
It's so interesting when someone tells me something that I needed to hear or when I have an epiphany about something, I get this like incredible throbbing in my wrists and arms and I can really feel it so hard now.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
I can say that to myself all I want. I can say, let them, let them, let them think their thoughts. Let yourself be misunderstood. It's okay. You have a wonderful family, wonderful friends, a wonderful life. But it is so incredibly challenging for me. The one thing I wish I could change was that I wish I weren't so misunderstood. And I wish people... knew how good I was.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
And it's so desperate sounding and so sad, but that for me is my biggest battle in life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
Since I was little, I really wanted to be loved and I really wanted adoration and affection. I had a parent that was not, Very touchy feely. I felt growing up that I was someone that she could show off. And so when I was little and going up to people and saying my words in Thai or doing what I was told and being good, I got really good feedback from that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
And I got that feeling of always wanting to be really good for everybody. And it's been in me since I was little.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
The relationship with myself is the hardest part. I've always been a punisher, whether it was through diets and food, emotionally or drinking. I always inflict some kind of pain on myself and punish myself for letting people down or feeling like I wasn't good enough in a group of people. And it's so all-encompassing. I very rarely leave the house because when I do...
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
And I interact with people out in the world, whether it's through work or just being out shopping at the grocery store. I just destroy myself and work so hard to make sure that they had a really good experience with me. And then I come home and I dwell on it forever. It's getting so exhausting being this mean to myself. And I don't know what it's like to not be that way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
And if I could heal that part of myself, so much would change. So much of my day would be free to... think of other things that really matter. But right now I'm in the prison of it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Stop Caring What People Think of You
I know that I'm saying that, but there's another level of me that I can do the best I can to ensure that you are.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Absolutely. And the question does the work. That's the first thing. And then I recognize that these conversations, these conflicts that we are trying to avoid are really relationship tests. Right. And so a lot of times we live in fear of the person's reaction. But sometimes the person's reaction is the reason why the relationship needs to fundamentally change or end.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah, because the reality is that when we think about this in terms of a relationship test, we are not just standing up for ourselves, but we're giving them an opportunity to let us know exactly where they should be placed in our lives. And so the beautiful thing about the story that I told is that he's my best friend to this day. You know, we respect each other as equals now.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And that was a really major fork in the road moment. I don't even think he remembers this, Mel. I really don't. But it was pivotal to me. Right. And so a lot of times we hold back in these conversations because we say, oh, I don't want them to get mad. I don't want them to guilt me. Oh, they're going to get really upset with me. It's going to hurt their feelings.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And we're putting we're focusing completely on them and not focusing on the fact that we are hurt. We deserve to be respected and feel good in these relationships just in the same way they do because there just might be a compatibility issue. There might be a situation where this person and you just for whatever reason don't mix or they have a lot of growth to do, right?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
But whatever it is, we have to have a conversation in order to discover what the truth is.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
That's it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
I think one of the biggest ones that we often overlook is the division of domestic responsibilities. let's start off with this because I don't want to come in here saying, oh yeah, I'm perfect at this. I'm not. Okay. So I've been married for 14 years. Whitney and I, we got married on graduation day from undergrad.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so we're able to make this work because of all of the difficult conversations that we're able to have. And even just this past weekend, we had that one. And she said, this is an example of the invisible work that women have to do in relationships. And I was like, oh, I'm this guy now. I literally wrote this. I wrote about this. And I'm- What was the situation?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
She was talking about all of the cleaning and domestic work that she was doing or felt that she had to do. And I didn't realize how much she was doing and how difficult it was, especially because I travel a lot for the keynote speeches and whatnot.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so I was thinking that sometimes maybe, hey, there might be something that needs to be done, but maybe we could hold off a couple of days until the cleaners come. And Whitney's like... I have standards, Kwame. So I'm not going to lower my standards.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So it was one of those situations where I recognized, no, this is something that I need to do, something that I need to change, because it is having a significantly disproportionate impact on her than it is on me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Right. And think about what happens emotionally. When we have these strong emotions, stress, fear, anxiety, whatever it happens to be, whatever it is that holds you back, it puts us into short-term thinking mode. So we say, I'm afraid of this conversation. I'm afraid of the person's response. It'll be easier for me to just... eat it and not do anything about it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then we do that the next day and the next week and the next month. And then our resentment builds up because again, emotions make us think in the short term, but we need to be able to have that internal negotiation, calm our emotions down so we can think a little bit more strategically and think about the longterm because it's okay to be afraid. We just need to be afraid of the right thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And a lot of times we're not. And so what I do is I shifted from the fear of failure to the fear of regret. So I say, okay, Kwame in 10 years, would he regret not having this conversation? Hypothetically, if this behavior continues, what does my life look like if I don't have the conversation?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then I realize, whoa, that outcome, that outcome is far scarier than a momentary, difficult conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
They're powerful because sometimes our emotions can lead us astray and lead us to focus on only the bad outcomes. We just catastrophize in our minds. And so what we do with these questions, it's part of the internal negotiation. We're changing our focus to something else. And we're recognizing, hey, regardless of how this ends up, I'll still find a way to be okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And I think that's something that we often miss because when we think about fight, flight, or freeze, these are primal responses. And that's what kept our ancestors alive back in the day. So we can't really distinguish between a physical threat to our lives and just a minor social threat. It feels the same way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so by asking ourselves these questions, we can get to a point where we can recognize, hey, If I do have the conversation and the worst thing happens, I will still be here. I will still be okay. And I'd respect myself better.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah, the amygdala is the epicenter of all emotions. So both positive and negative emotions come from the amygdala. And since it's such a primal part of the brain, it is the fastest to respond. So before we can think logically about something, we will feel something emotionally. And so we want to compare that to the frontal lobe, which is the most evolved part of our brain.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So we have logical reasoning, emotion management, executive function, all of that exists in the frontal lobe. And this is why understanding this matters so much. Because there's an antagonistic relationship between the frontal lobe and the amygdala. The more emotional we are, the less clearly we're thinking. The more clearly we're thinking, the less emotional we are. It's an either or proposition.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so our goal with this approach, as we negotiate internally and externally using compassionate curiosity, which we'll get to, is to make sure that we ourselves are using the proper point of our brain. So we're actually operating at our best capacity, our highest capacity. and we can get the other person to operate with their best selves as well.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so this is where labeling your emotions come into play. Okay. So what we're going to do is we're going to label all of the emotions that we're feeling. Most likely, it's not just one. So for example, if we say, oh, I'm angry. Anger is a secondary emotion, not a primary emotion. There's usually something else that makes us feel angry. So I'm angry. What else am I feeling?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
I'm feeling disrespected. Okay, what else? I'm also feeling disappointed, right? And so that'll be the first step of internal compassionate curiosity. So we're going to acknowledge and validate our own emotions. And then we're going to get curious with compassion, asking why I feel this way. Well, why do I feel disrespected? Why do I feel disappointed?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Well, this person is supposed to be my friend. It doesn't feel like they're treating me as a friend right now. Okay. And then the last step is joint problem solving within ourselves. So I want to figure out what would help me to feel better emotionally, but what should I actually do to solve this problem? And so that gives us the clarity to actually have the conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah, emotion management is a skill. And a lot of times we say, well, I'm not good at managing my emotions. My emotions are strong. You're probably not going to be good at something that you haven't practiced, right? So we have to recognize that by just practicing it, we will get better at it. And it's really, truly that simple. Right? Because our emotions will hold us back.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
We need to find out how to manage our emotions before the conversation by preparing emotionally, but also during the conversation. So I'm going to treat it almost like an athlete, how an athlete would do visualization.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
I want to think about in the conversation, if they say that thing that triggers me, what am I going to do? How am I going to respond? What am I going to say? Right. If they say that thing that always annoys me, how am I going to approach this? So by the time I actually have the conversation, I've been there before. I've understood it. So it's less triggering in the moment.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And the same way we described how compassionate curiosity works as we prepare, you can get faster with doing it in the conversation. So I'll give an example. So a lot of times, not with Whitney, this would be weird, but in a business world, when I'm having a difficult conversation, I'll usually have like a pen and paper with me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So let's say somebody says something disrespectful or throws me off or something. I'll just say, you've brought up a lot of good points. Do you mind if I take a few notes? And I'll take notes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
That's it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Because first of all, I turn it into a bit of a tactile meditation. A lot of times, Mel, I'm not writing anything. I'm just like, what is happening? Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then I say, okay, what am I, what am I feeling? I'll list it out. And then I'll say, all right, why I'll go through the same framework. And in my mind, I can do this really quickly in about two to three seconds. And then I'll say, okay, how should I respond to this? But how do I also control the conversation? So I'm not reacting. I'm actually responding.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Simple rule. When you don't know what to say next, the next thing you should say should come in the form of a question. So I'll come back with an open-ended question. And a lot of times you can just come back with clarification. One of the things that you mentioned was blank. Can you tell me what you meant by blank? And so you're giving yourself some time and you're also getting some clarity.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Because whenever somebody's talking, there are going to be some key words that they emphasize and different people have different definitions for different words. And so we don't want to assume that we know what they talk about. Think about things like respect, fairness, right? What's interesting is you can have an argument where one person is saying, this is unfair.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then the other person says, this is unfair for two different reasons. We need to understand what they're seeing. But we often operate on assumptions versus hypotheses.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Well, first of all, I think about everything as practice. That's first, right? So this is me practicing having a difficult conversation. But also I recognize that I can't always force a deal. Like sometimes there is no deal to be had. And sometimes the worst thing that could happen to us is a deal that never should have happened. Right.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so if we say this is the art of deal making or my goal is to get an agreement, I might force something that is actually inappropriate and then is just doomed to fail later on. And so I say, hey, listen, my goal in this conversation is to be as curious as possible, learn as much as possible and see whether or not there is a deal to be made. And if there is, I trust my skills to find it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And if there isn't. Okay, I understand and accept that. And I think that's an important mental shift. Because if you feel like a deal has to happen, a lot of times that means that you are going to bear the entire responsibility of being reasonable in this conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Right. That's powerful. Thank you for sharing. I mean, it just shows how pivotal these conversations can be, but also how scary it can be. Because here, as we're talking about it, you knew exactly what you wanted to say, but- I didn't know how to say it. You didn't know how to say it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So the framework we use is compassionate curiosity. It's a flexible three-part framework where first we're going to acknowledge and validate the emotions if we see emotions from the other side.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then when we manage the emotions and we lower the emotional temperature of the room, then we're going to move to step two, which is getting curious with compassion, asking open-ended questions with a compassionate tone to gather information, build rapport and show empathy.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then number three is going to be using joint problem solving where we're not working against each other, but working with each other to solve the problem together.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And that's how you know it's ethical. Because if I'm going to use the same technique on myself as I use on you, then you know there's nothing nefarious behind it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Nope.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
I think it comes down to the willingness to work with people. So it's not me versus you. It's you and me versus the problem. And it's to improve difficult conversations for everybody. I'm not trying to get some kind of unfair advantage over people. I'm trying to elevate conversation in general. Right. Because me and the other person, we have the same challenges. We're all human.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Our amygdala is going to fire up. And so we're not going to be thinking clearly. So I need to make sure that I'm thinking clearly first, and then I'm going to make sure they're thinking clearly as well. So internally, step one, acknowledge and validate emotions. Step two, get curious with self-directed compassion.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And step three is using joint problem solving where we reconcile the differences between our hearts and our minds.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Okay, good.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So let's walk through that the exact same way. So what are you feeling? What's the first thing you feel?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah. The audacity of this act. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it's multiple emotions, right? Yes. So the psychology, understanding the psychology helps us to have faith in this process. Okay. Because here's the magical part of it. Because with the amygdala, that's what's firing when we're feeling emotional. But as we label it, in psychology, they say we need to name it to tame it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Because the part of the brain that actually accepts or rejects the emotional label is located in the frontal lobe.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Exactly. Genius. Exactly. Right? And so that's what helps us to calm down.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yep. But you're feeling a little bit better.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And now we get to step two. Okay. What's step two? And so this is where we get curious with compassion. So now we're going to go through those labels and say, well, why do I feel that way? And label all of the reasons why. So why do you feel so upset? Let's actually list all the reasons why.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Exactly. You see, see how long it took you to get to sleep? Right? So we think it's about the sleep. It is about so much more than the sleep. And as we get clarity and understanding, we're starting to calm down. We're not going to get to a point where it's completely emotionless, but we're getting to a point where the emotions are manageable.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And at least we get some clarity that makes us feel a little bit more confident. And then the last step is using joint problem solving internally. So we're reconciling the differences between our hearts and our minds. So what does that mean? So emotionally, what might make me feel better? I'm going to send the most aggressive text message you have ever seen.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Okay, that might make you feel better in the short term, but what would actually solve the problem? Actually, that might make me feel better, not solve the problem. Let me not do that. Maybe I need to send a text message, but I need to craft it differently, right?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So you're saying I need to honor my emotions with what I do next, but I also need to engage in long-term thinking to think about what actually solves the problem long-term.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yep. What do I do? So now we start the conversation. Oh God, no. Okay, should I drink first? Like, what are we doing?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
It's tough. Here's how you don't do it. Don't send a text that says we need to talk.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
You don't want to just trigger them. What I recognize is that sometimes, let's say you're really good at compassionate curiosity, but the thing is you need to start the conversation. I don't want to start the conversation. And that's tough. It is tough. So I have a framework for starting the conversation because sometimes that's the hardest part.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Thanks for having me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah. So I call it, it's situation, impact, invitation. This is how we tell the person that we have to have a conversation. Okay. Right? Once the conversation starts, we flow with compassionate curiosity. Got it. Okay. But we have to have some entry point. And this will take like 10 to 15 seconds to say.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So with situation, we're going to describe the situation using what I call naked facts. Okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah, facts.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
But okay, so naked facts. I wanted to call it something that people would remember. Oh, I'm going to remember that. You're going to remember, right? Yeah, okay. So these are facts that are stripped of all interpretation, judgment, or opinion.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So no matter what you believe, what side you're on, you can say that is in fact what occurred. Okay. And the next impact.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
With the roommate. So this morning at 5.30 a.m., your alarm went off and it woke me up. That's it. Oh, God. I'm already nervous. That's it, right? And then the impact. We're going to personalize the impact. What impact did it have on you? Because if you talk about a general impact or what it means to other people, then they could deny that. Now we have an argument.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
But if we personalize it, they can't say, that's not what you felt because that's not how brains work. So it'll be a situation, hey, this morning at 5.30 a.m., your alarm went off and it woke me up. And that made me feel frustrated because I still wanted to sleep, but now I'm awake and it's really hard for me to get back asleep after I wake up like that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So I really enjoy living with you and we have a really great relationship. So I just want to make sure that we can have a conversation to figure out how we can make this work for both of us. And that's it. Okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, for sure. I think you don't, as the door opens, you don't read the script. This morning, no, not at all, not at all, that's a little bit too aggressive.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
That's perfect.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Joint problem solving. So we're going to work with them, not against them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So let's go ahead and make this real. So you can be the person with the 538 alarm. And what I'll do is as I'm flowing through the conversation, I'll go, I'll just say step one, step two, step three. I'll signal with my finger so people can see, but they'll see how much it flows. Okay. Great. So I'll just start off with situation impact invitation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
You just respond as how you would want to and make it tough, Mel. It's not fun if it's not hard. Okay. Okay. Here we go. So we were chit-chatting, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Great. Awesome. Okay. Hey, by the way, at 5.30 in the morning, your alarm went off and it woke me up. It did? Yeah. Yeah. It went off and then I woke up and it made it really tough for me to start my day.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Well, I tried. I tried to go back to sleep, but I'm a very light sleeper. And when something wakes me up, it really makes it hard for me to get back down to sleep. So I know I care about this.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Oh, I recognize that. And it sounds like for you that getting up early is a priority because you have to get to work and it's important for you to get to work early.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
That's what I'm hearing. Yes. Right? And so what I was wondering is, is if there is any way that we could work through this together to find a way for it to be livable for both of us. Because I want you to be able to get to work early. That's really important to you. And then getting to sleep is really important to me. So I don't want to assume anything.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So I wanted to just ask, are there any potential other options that you could use? Like what? Like what are you talking about?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
I'm not saying that. Before we move on, I might be wrong, but it seems like you're a little bit maybe frustrated with the conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Well, I want to make sure that I'm understanding you well, because, and maybe you can tell me what it is that I'm sensing, but there's a difference in the way that you're approaching this from when we were just talking pleasantries and now.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Well, the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And so when you really think about it, and if we're honest with ourselves, most of us spend the majority of our lives avoiding these tough conversations. And I'm speaking from experience here because I'm a recovering people pleaser.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
What is it about the way that I'm approaching this that's making you feel so attacked?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Okay. Well, let me say this, Mel. Because if you're too tired to have this conversation, maybe this is not the right time to have this conversation. But for the sake of our relationship together, I just want you to know that it's very important for me to have this conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Because you need to get up at 5.30 and I respect that. And I want to make sure that you can get what you need out of this relationship. And I also need to get sleep. And I want to make sure that I get what I need out of this relationship. Because it's not fair to you if I don't bring this up. Because this has been hurting me for a long time. Why didn't you say something?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Honestly, because I was afraid that you would respond poorly. And so I care about our relationship and I didn't want to lose it. But I recognize that by not having the conversation, I was doing you a disservice. So if now is not a good time to have it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Thank you for bringing this up. Okay. So I want to think about what you can do to get what you need and what I can do to get what I need.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Sleep is what I need. And for me, maybe it'll be helpful if I walk through what I'm experiencing too. Because for me, I have insomnia. So it takes me a long time to get to sleep. And once I'm awake, I'm awake. I can't get back down. And so I want to see if there's any type of adjustment that we can make because I want to be really transparent with you. This is not sustainable for me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And if we can't figure this out, then I'm going to have to make a change and find someone else to live with. And I don't want to do that because we're compatible in every other way. It's just this type of thing. So I don't want to come in and just dictate what you should do. That's why I want to have a conversation with you. When it comes to how you wake up,
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Is there a specific need that you have for an alarm that loud? Or are there any types of adjustments that you think you could make to accomplish your same goal in a way that's less destructive for me?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
That's two. I'm asking questions. Asking questions. So what I'll do is I'll acknowledge and validate the emotions first to try to calm you down. And then I'm recognizing, this was not, she was not calming down. I'm going to acknowledge and validate that. Hey, doesn't seem like this is a good time for you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Exactly. And then once I recognize you calm down again, I went to number two, where I asked these questions. Out of curiosity. Out of curiosity. So what I'm doing, I'm not trying to grab all of these disparate tactics and piecemeal them together. I'm just making reads based on what I see. So if I see emotion of any kind, I'm going to acknowledge that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yes. Yes. And I think it's important to start there, too, because people look at me and they see, okay, Kwame is a confident communicator, a negotiation expert, and those types of things. But I wasn't born this way. I built myself this way. Because confidence is a learnable skill. And really, when it comes to the way that I approach these difficult conversations...
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then once I see you calm down, I'm going to get to number two, which is getting curious with compassion. And so first I saw frustration. You said that wasn't it. Then I said, what are you, what am I sensing? I'm still in step one.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And that's fine. And so I'll say, okay, it's not frustrated. What is it? And then you said, I'm tired. I don't want to have this conversation. I said, okay, if you don't want to have this conversation right now, then maybe we shouldn't have this conversation right now.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
It's tough. So when we talk about things like politics or religion, there's a reason why these particular conversations have so much more emotionality. It comes down to two things, identity and morality. So identity means who am I and what does it mean to be me and what does a person like me typically do? And then morality is what does it mean to be a good or bad person? Right.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so when we're talking about those core issues, those two issues are going to be triggered in ourselves. And that increases the level of emotionality. So again, we don't need a new technique in order to deal with this. We just recognize that we're going to have to spend more time in part one, acknowledging and validating emotions. And I think a story can help here too. Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So there's a classic story called The Blind Men and the Elephant. And so there are five blind men and there's an elephant in the room, literally, literally in this situation. And one person touches the ear and says an elephant is like a piece of paper. Another person touches the tail and says an elephant is like a long rope. Another person touches the leg and says an elephant is like a column.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then they start arguing. So who's right and who's wrong? they're all right and they're all wrong at the same time. And so for me, with these conversations about politics and sensitive issues like that, a lot of times we approach it in terms of right versus wrong, which will inflame identity and morality.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
You're saying that it's not right to be me, and you're saying that I am a bad person for thinking this. And so we will fight like hell to make sure that you don't have that opinion of me. It's not about right or wrong anymore. It's about me standing my ground and not letting you think that about me. But instead, what I'll do is I'll acknowledge and validate what they're saying.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So it sounds like you believe this because of that reason. Okay. And here's the key. When I'm summarizing this, I'll just say, so in your perspective, this. So I'm not agreeing. I'm not endorsing. I'm paying them the respect of knowing that, hey, I understand where you're coming from, even if I disagree.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So when I see them start to calm down, when they start to feel more respected, then when I transition to getting curious with compassion, My goal is to ask a question that helps them to see another side of the elephant.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So I'll say this. Well, have you thought about it from this perspective? I like to ask hypothetical questions. So hypothetically, if you lived this type of lifestyle, How would you see this situation? Or what if you were in this situation and this program wasn't there? What solution would you have to get out of that situation? And now they might say, oh, I was blaming the victim.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
It's after years of doing it the wrong way. And so what I recognize is that the first and most important difficult conversation that we have to have is with ourselves. And that's what people miss. They focus on the conversations with other people, but we have to have that internal negotiation to figure out what it is that's holding us back and find our personal pathway to confidence.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
I was saying that they weren't working hard enough, for example, but it sounds like they actually didn't have any other options and they're doing the best thing they could. So I can get them to a different perspective, not by saying you're wrong, but by saying you didn't have the full picture. Beautiful.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So I think we need to understand what landlords want, because usually we just say money, and that's only part of the answer. Landlords want easy money. They want tenants that are not going to be a problem, who pay on time, who don't destroy the property. And so one thing that I like to do in a situation like this is when I'm talking to the landlord, I'd say, hey, I have a question.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
If you could imagine the perfect tenant, what would that perfect tenant look like?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Right? Never, right? They'll list those things out. And I said, hey, my goal is to be the perfect tenant for you. And I want to see if this could be a place where I can stay long-term. So what would it take for us to lower the rent And in return, I will be that perfect tenant. And now we start the conversation, right? Maybe they want a longer lease term.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Maybe it's helpful to them to say, oh, I don't need to worry about turning this over every 12 months. If you give me 18 months or two years, I'd be willing to lower it, right? So we figure out what their biggest gripe is. What's their biggest annoyance? And say, hey, I'll promise not to do that. I'll be the easiest tenant you've ever had.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And even better, bonus points, if you can get references from previous landlords who say, this was the best tenant I've ever had, right? So it's not just you blowing smoke. They actually know it's real.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Number one, do your research. So what I want you to do is figure out what the market price is and find data that could substantiate a higher market price. So let's just use a flat number to make it easy. So let's say the offer they give you is $100,000. You want to get to $110,000. What you want to do is find data where you can say, hey, my hope is that we could get to 120,000.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
What would it take for me to get there? And now what you've done is you've given yourself a little bit of wiggle room. Now, remember, when they are giving you these offers, they're expecting you to negotiate. They build that into the offer.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Absolutely. And in some cases, depending on what your occupation is, you might actually lose respect by not negotiating. If I'm a lawyer, a consultant, a salesperson, and I don't negotiate, then they're going to say, if this person doesn't negotiate for themselves, how can I trust them to negotiate on behalf of this company?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so just have that confidence because this is also a relationship test just like anything else. Because depending on how they respond to your negotiation, you might recognize, oh, this is a little bit toxic. I don't like that. But usually the worst that can happen is no. Remember, you have more leverage at that point than you realize because they're only giving the offer to you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
They've told you that you are their best choice right now. And if they give you just a little bit more, then you will actually choose them too.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
We have to figure out how to overcome the fear, the anxiety, the self-doubt, and all of the overthinking that can hold us back. And if people put this into their lives today, one difficult conversation at a time, they're going to improve their relationships, their careers, and they'll put themselves in the best position to live the best version of their lives.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
The problem with these negotiations is that they fail because we don't start soon enough. If you want a promotion and you want more money, you need to start that process probably three to six months in advance. So first, you're going to have a meeting with your manager and ask for feedback on your performance. What am I doing well? What am I doing poorly? How can I improve?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
You're going to document that conversation and follow it up so everybody knows what those metrics are. And then you're going to have a conversation a few months later and say, hey, thanks for the feedback. You said I should improve in these types of ways. I wanted to let you know that I have improved in these types of ways. And I have a question. My goal is to stay at this company long term.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
What would it take for me to get a promotion? What more do I need to do? And then they'll give you those data points. And now three months later, you say, hey, I did these things. Now what I'd like is this. And so by laying the foundation months in advance, you're putting yourself in a much better position to succeed.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Exactly. Exactly.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So in those situations, you need to share your experience because a lot of times what is obvious to you is not obvious for somebody else because they're so focused on other things that they miss some of the things that seem very obvious to you. So you could say, hey, just out of curiosity, have you noticed this? And you might be shocked that the answer might actually be no, right?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And what we have to recognize is that different people feel different things for different reasons. Because in the relationship with me and Whitney, Whitney is a lot more sensitive to mess than I am.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so once she explained how it makes her feel that she's having these messes, that I was having these messes or making them, I recognized, hey, for the sake of the relationship, I need to start investing in this way. So I was not aware of the level of invisible work that she was doing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Right. Absolutely. And I think when it comes to these types of things within relationships, one of the biggest mistakes we can make is framing this through right versus wrong. Right. Because again, that triggers morality. You're saying I'm a bad person. I'm not a bad person. And now we're having an argument about something that is irrelevant. It's not about right versus wrong.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
It's about what I personally need.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
That's it. And in that process, it will take compromise because I don't need to adjust my behavior based on the frame of right versus wrong. Because if I say, oh, I'm wrong, then it's going to feel bad even if I'm doing the right thing. But for me, what I had to do, and Whitney, again, love her. She's like, this is the standard. This is the way it should be done.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
But in my mind, the way that I can motivate myself to do it is like, this is me being a real man, right? My wife has something that I need, and those are the dishes. I'm going to do it. If there was a dragon here, I'd slay the dragon. No dragons, but they're dishes. Yeah. I'm going to do the dishes now. So in my mind, I had to change it so it felt like something that was really chivalrous, right?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Because if it was right versus wrong, now I feel like it's like my mother telling me to do something that I'm a bad person. But now it's like, no, this is what a real man would do. My wife has a challenge and she is being attacked by the stress of these dishes. I'm going to protect my wife from the stress of these dishes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so when I started to think about it that way, that really motivated me to do it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Have the conversation using compassionate curiosity. Mel, we overthink this. We overthink this. Because you might say, well, let me listen to this episode again. Go ahead, listen to it again. That's great. No, but we're not going to put another barrier between where we are now and what we need to do.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
After listening to this episode, you know everything you need to know in order to have the conversation. So don't allow your overthinking to hold yourself back. Have the conversation. You have the tool.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
My parting words are this. Again, the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And if you take what we've learned today and put it into action, you're going to put yourself in a position to live the very best version of your life, one difficult conversation at a time. You're going to improve your relationships. You're going to improve your careers.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And just as a result, you're going to improve your life too.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
So this was great. You were dynamite. Thank you. Oh, perfect timing. Yes, thank you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Yeah. So for me, I'm a first generation Caribbean American. My family's from the Caribbean. My dad's from Dominica, a very small town, small island. And then my mom's from Guyana. And we moved to a small town called Tiffin, Ohio. And most people are saying, where is Tiffin? That's the point. That is the point. And so I was the only Black kid in my school at the time. I had an accent.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
I was very different. And so I remember one time on the playground during recess, just going to different groups, trying to get acceptance, trying to play with them. And so I would go up to one group and say, hey, can I play with you? And they would say no. And then I went up to another group and said, hey, can I play with you? Same thing. They said no.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then time was running out and I said, oh, hey, can I play with you all? They said no. So I was devastated, but I tried to keep it together. But then when I went inside and the teacher saw me, I just burst into tears and she said, what's wrong? I said, nobody would play with me. And so I remember at that moment, I made a decision. I said, I will never, ever feel this way again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
No matter what, people are going to like me. People are going to accept me and I'm going to do whatever it takes to get to that point. And so when you look at it from the outside, looking in, you can say, oh, well, Kwame was a success. Most popular kid in school, captain of the basketball team.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Mel, I knew everybody in the school by name, literally by name, but they didn't recognize all the silent compromises I was making. When there was an opportunity to stand up for myself, I wouldn't do it. I would agree when I actually disagreed just to keep the peace.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so I thought I was doing the right thing in order to collect all of these friends, but I wasn't stepping up and having the tough conversations that I needed because I didn't want to risk the relationship. But for me, when I recognized that Standing up for myself was a necessary part of what I wanted to be, my aspirations. I recognized I had to figure out how to get over it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And it was when I learned how to negotiate, that's when I recognized this is a skill, not just a talent. I can actually get better. And so once I recognized that for myself, I wanted to put myself on this journey to help other people with the same thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
When you live your life like this, what you're doing is you're putting everybody else in front of yourself. You're putting everybody else above you. And so you say, it's more important for them to like me than it is for me to like myself. And so you constantly make these compromises and people like you. So it seems like you're winning. They would say that you're winning.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then you could say, but this is what I wanted. But then at the same time, you're feeling that dissonance where there's a discrepancy between what it is that you say you want and what it is that you really want. And so a lot of times we don't understand where society begins and we end and vice versa. Because we might say, okay, society says have more friends. That's a good thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
but then there's something inside of us that's saying something very, very different. And we don't know how to reconcile those differences. And so that's why I say the internal negotiation needs to happen. We have to start to honor the emotions that we're feeling because a lot of times in negotiation and difficult conversations and communication in general, we say emotions are the enemy.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
We have to try to minimize them, get rid of them. But really emotions in many ways are our mind's way of telling us what really matters the most.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
Absolutely. Absolutely. And remember, it's not just the respect of others, but also the respect that you have for yourself. And I remember this was before I had the skills of how to have a difficult conversation, but I took those words to heart and I said, okay, I'm going to stand up for myself. I'm not just going to go with the flow anymore.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so I remember there was one conversation in undergrad. My parents gave me a car. It was very appreciative. And they said, we have one rule, just one rule with the car. As long as you have friends in the car and for yourself, everybody needs to wear a seatbelt. I thought that was fair. Very reasonable. I thought that was fair.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And so I had my friends in the car and we were going somewhere and they did not want to wear their seatbelts. And I said, no, this is the rule. We have to wear our seatbelts. And it became the standoff rule. for 15 painful minutes. And they were just saying, no, we're not wearing our seatbelts. This is silly. And then I wouldn't move the car.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And then they said, okay, well, I guess Kwame is going to be a baby about this. We're going to go, right? But that wasn't the conversation. So after that happened, I pulled aside one of my friends and I asked him a simple question. I said, why is it that you are my best friend, but it seems like you're the one who respects me the least? I just asked that question.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Get What You Want Every Time: 3 Steps to Negotiate Anything With Anyone
And he was silent for a moment, but then he started explaining himself and then eventually apologized. And so I recognized at that point, a lot of times the conversations are going to be determined not by what it is that you actually say, but the quality of the questions that you ask. That question did all the work.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Let Go of What You Can’t Control & Redirect Your Energy
Ask your husband, how do you feel about your attitude about your life?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Let Go of What You Can’t Control & Redirect Your Energy
If you dread your day, that's an opportunity to take a look at your life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Let Go of What You Can’t Control & Redirect Your Energy
I want to tell you, this is the worst turbulence I've ever been in my life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How to Let Go of What You Can’t Control & Redirect Your Energy
Chris was not allowing himself to get concerned.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
For people who are suffering from mild to moderate disorders, their safety is not in danger. They have not been suicidal. They haven't tried to hurt themselves or anyone else. They're not hallucinating or delusional. If I had to give generic advice, what's the highest bang for the buck? I would say try a ketogenic diet for three months. and then we'll see how it goes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
We actually have a tremendous amount of science on the ketogenic diet. Most people know the keto diet as a fad diet, a weight loss diet, a dangerous diet. So unbeknownst to most people, the ketogenic diet was developed over 100 years ago by a physician for one and only one purpose. It was not weight loss. It was to actually stop seizures. The ketogenic diet is now an evidence-based treatment.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
We have lots of randomized controlled trials. We have gold standard meta-analyses in the medical literature proving that this is effective, it is reputable, it is legitimate. The ketogenic diet is an evidence-based treatment for treatment-resistant epilepsy.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
And what that means is that if somebody has seizures and medications don't stop their seizures, or even brain surgery doesn't stop their seizures, the ketogenic diet can often work in a way that medications and even brain surgery may not have worked for those people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
So we have decades of research looking at the ketogenic diet, trying to figure out how on earth does this diet stop seizures when our great pills didn't? Like, what is going on here? And so we know that the ketogenic diet is changing, is having profound effects on the brain function. It's changing neurotransmitters. It changes gene expression.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
It decreases brain inflammation and body inflammation as well. It, central to my thesis, it actually improves mitochondrial function, which in a nutshell means it's improving metabolism, and in particular, brain metabolism. And so one of the great things about the ketogenic diet, like when it's used for epilepsy, is that people don't have to do it for life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
Most often, people only need to do it for like two to five years. That actually, quote unquote— That sounds like a long time, honestly.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
So the keto diet in a nutshell is very low in carbohydrates, moderate in protein, and high in fat. So I would recommend getting some information on a well-formulated ketogenic diet. So you want to do it right. So what you would eat if you were doing a ketogenic diet... Again, I want to even set the stage.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
There are vegan versions of a ketogenic diet, vegetarian versions, omnivore versions where you're eating both animal-sourced and plant-sourced foods, and even carnivore versions of this diet where all you're eating is meat and eggs and stuff like that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
So what I might eat if I were eating a ketogenic diet, I am an omnivore. I eat both animal-sourced and plant-sourced foods. I would wake up and I might have eggs and bacon or sausage or some kind of meat. Let's go.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
I might add extra butter. If I need more fat, I might add extra butter to the eggs. So some people might look at me making my eggs thinking, why are you putting all that butter in your scrambled eggs? And I would say, because I need the extra fat. For lunch and dinner, similar meals, I would probably have a protein source. So that could be steak, chicken, salmon, poultry. Yep.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
And I would have low-carb vegetables. So that could include broccoli, spinach, any kind of lettuces, cauliflower, cucumbers, pickles, things like that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
I would take my pick. When I prepared those vegetables, I would put extra sources of fat on those vegetables. So I would put olive oil and plain vinegar. So that might be my kind of serving. I might emphasize nuts and avocados because those are very high in fat. And typically thought of as healthy sources of fat.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
So I would recommend getting some information on a well-formulated ketogenic diet. You want to include enough healthy types of foods. People sometimes need extra electrolytes like sodium, potassium, magnesium when they get started on the diet. And nonetheless, there's this thing called the keto adaptation phase or keto flu. So the first week or two in particular can be very rough.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
I'm just going to let people know. People can feel weak, hungry, hangry, dizzy, irritable, other things. Why? Because they're basically withdrawing from sugar or carbohydrates regularly. More importantly, their body is trying to do this shift from burning primarily on carbohydrates to running on a combination of carbohydrates and fats as fuel sources.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
And for some people, that can be an easier transition. For others, it can be a more difficult transition.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
So the first thing that most people will start to feel is an antidepressant effect. And so they will start to notice that they just feel lighter. They have a little more energy. Their brain starts working a little better. Some people might notice that their sleep is feeling more restorative.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
So if there's somebody who usually has to use an alarm, push the snooze button several times, they might start to notice that it's easier to wake up in the morning. They get going faster than normal. For people using this for mental health, it's usually not a lifelong thing. diet. A lot of people will do it for one to five years.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
They actually reinvigorate their metabolism, or most importantly, what that means to me is that they're improving their mitochondrial health. And that actually can then persist so that you've actually done some healing work on your body. And so that if you go back to A whole food, still a healthy diet. I'm not encouraging people to go back to a junk food diet with a lot of processed foods.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
But if they start adding back carbohydrates, even complex carbohydrates, whole grains or potatoes and other things, they may do extraordinarily well. And again, I want to be clear. I don't necessarily recommend the ketogenic diet for everyone. Not everybody needs it. Some people can just get rid of the junk food and the processed foods.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
Some people can just get rid of the extra sugar in their diet and do spectacularly well. So they might do well on a paleo diet or whole food, whole 30 or a vegetarian or vegan whole food plant-based diet. There are lots of options.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
Try to exercise a little more than you're currently doing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
If you're doing zero, do anything. So if you did one day of resistance training a week, but you did most of your major muscle groups and you did it to the point of failure, that would be more than enough. I love it. but you've got to go to failure. If you're only going to work out once a week, you've got to go to failure.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
We need to build those muscles, which means you're not just going to lift it a couple times and say, oh, I'm tired. You're going to go until you can't go anymore. Just one set, but you're going to go until you can't go anymore. But it could be just taking a walk after dinner or Every night. If you can do it every night, it doesn't have to be a long walk. It could be a 10-minute walk, whatever.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
Just get out of the house. Get away from a screen. Walk around the block. The third thing, I want you to prioritize sleep.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
You need at least seven or eight hours. The ideal way to know if you're getting adequate sleep is, are you able to get out of bed reasonably okay? Or are you pushing the snooze button? Are you exhausted? Are you dragging yourself out of bed? If you're dragging yourself out of bed, you're not getting enough sleep. You should be able to wake up and get out of bed, and it should not be torture.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
If it's torture, you're not getting enough sleep. Go to bed earlier. Turn off the television, the computer, whatever. Go to bed. Try to get more sleep. Reduce your use of harmful substances. That means alcohol. If you're really struggling with a mental health condition, give me three months off alcohol. I'm not asking for a lifetime. I'm not asking for, you know, forever.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
Three months off alcohol because we're trying to give your brain a chance. If you were a professional athlete training for a marathon, your coach would tell you no alcohol, none, zero, zero tolerance. Guess what else? No marijuana, no CBD, no smoking, no vaping, none, period. End of story. Don't argue. Don't talk back. Just don't do it. Don't do those things. Why?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
Because they're all negatively impacting your brain metabolism. Your brain metabolism is begging for help. We see it in the symptoms that you're exhibiting. We want to give you a fighting chance. You can introduce these things again in the future when you're healthy. When you're healthier and more resilient and you can tolerate a drink every now and then, great.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
8 Habits That Will Change Your Life: The Expert Advice You Need This Year
But for now, while we're trying to help you heal and recover, we're going to give your brain a fighting chance.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This
With your cast. I was my cast. As you're stuffing broccoli in your pockets. Exactly.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This
Different human being.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
If You Feel Overwhelmed & Uncertain About Money, Listen to This
All of it. You had no investments left? You had no... Nothing. Really? Yeah. Now you're looking at me like, you're a real idiot now. I didn't know you took out the kids' college fund money.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
51: Redhill’s classic car cruise, the local artist who became world-famous… and more
We've done quite a bit of work, brakes and servicing and stuff just to keep it going, but it's not been too bad at all.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
51: Redhill’s classic car cruise, the local artist who became world-famous… and more
Yeah, it's like floating down the road. Really nice power steering. Fits six of us in it. Very comfy seats. It's massive, isn't it? It is, yeah. I think it's about 19 and a half foot long. A bit tricky to park at Tesco. I bet. It's not too bad. Once you get used to it, it's not bad at all. You sort of learn the size of it and it's not bad going down the road.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
46: The second annual CycloCross Reigate, the history of our local heathland … and more
Do you have any idea at all when surveys or other works will be undertaken to find out the problem in the theatre, other than the fact that there's RAAC there, but the extent of it?
The Planet Reigate Podcast
46: The second annual CycloCross Reigate, the history of our local heathland … and more
It should be noted that with the venue closed, it is having a huge effect on local groups who normally use the venue, as well as preventing the local community from attending the theatre to see shows, films or other events. In particular, many users are children and other young people and the closure means that events having to be cancelled, scaled down or moved to venues outside the borough.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
46: The second annual CycloCross Reigate, the history of our local heathland … and more
This risks hollowing out both the participation in and audiences for the arts in our borough and it is therefore imperative that the theatre opens again as soon as possible. The main question is, given that the Harley Quinn Theatre has been closed since September 2023, we would like to understand the current situation and when the council intends
The Planet Reigate Podcast
46: The second annual CycloCross Reigate, the history of our local heathland … and more
to reopen the Harlequin Theatre, which is the main arts and cultural centre of this borough. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr Waite.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
Well, I'm Christine and I volunteer to live at home. So I volunteer at the Wednesday Club where they all come for the day. We have tea and coffee and activities, have a meal, play games, do coffee mornings, take them to coffee. Once a month I organise a pub lunch. They all like that. Take about 20 of them.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
to the pub, not personally I've got a team of volunteer drivers that are worth everything and they pick them up from home we go to the pub to have a nice lunch and a drink and a natter gets them out for a few hours and then the volunteer drivers take them home. Some are in their 60s, Arthur's just had his 100th birthday we had a big celebration for that a lot of them are like late 80s
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
Some are quite fit. Some are quite good, bless them. And they love it because it gets them out of the four walls, doesn't it? In the Wednesday club, of course, it's like all tea and coffee and food. Oh, everyone's got a story to tell you. Fascinating. See, too many people think that old person arrived here old, but they didn't. They've had a fabulous life.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
And they've got stories beyond stories to tell.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
Jokes to swap. Oh, absolutely. And funny things. I've been in stitches. Then once a year we go on holiday. We're going away September this year. Monday to Friday we do, but yeah, once again, they love it, yeah. They take their pocket money and they can have what they like from the bar and get up and have a dance if they want, do nothing if they want, whatever. How did you get involved?
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
Well, very strange really. I went into the help shop in Hawley because my son-in-law's mother was moving into Hawley and I thought, well, I wonder if there's anything going on that would be good for Eileen. And I went in the help shop that was then and I see this live at home and I turned it over and it says, do you want to volunteer? And I thought, yes, I do.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
So I phoned up, went down and saw Tanya, who was the head then. Started straight away. Well, I had my CB checked, my police, but no, I haven't been in Holloway or anything like that. What do I get? I probably get more than they do. It makes me get out of bed in the morning. It gives me a purpose. And I can be feeling gloomy to me in the morning. But as soon as I get there, I come alive.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
Because they're all there and I just love them all. Have a good smile. Morning everyone, I go, you know, here comes Chrissie the nutter. Yeah, it gives me a lot back. I wouldn't stop doing it. It makes me feel better about me. I feel like I've done something worthwhile. You know, even sitting, chatting to Doris. She's adorable.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think so. I hope so. I do hope so.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
A little bit, but then, you know, that's OK. I don't mind.
The Planet Reigate Podcast
45: Awards for 700+ years of local volunteering… and more
Oh, yeah, fancy that. I wouldn't mind being, I wouldn't mind having a real gem. No, it's very sweet. Very nice of them to say that about me. But, yeah, I love them all. I just love it. That's all I can say.
The Toast
Tenured Podcasters with Joey Camasta: Thursday, May 29th, 2025
Like, who's going to sit there?
The Viall Files
E925 – Going Deeper with JoJo Siwa
Great question. I don't know. Are you already dating somebody? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Can you imagine? No.
The Viall Files
E925 – Going Deeper with JoJo Siwa
I was about to say you're in it with like your four ex-girlfriends.
The Viall Files
E925 – Going Deeper with JoJo Siwa
and so i didn't know any of those things you know what i mean i do i remember you were like i mean it's pretty obvious i didn't know i remember you're all like my niece who's 10 years old you know doesn't know anything about anything and she said you were you were like making out with your girlfriend at the time and she goes mommy jojo really likes that girl over there
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
Yeah. It's like you're passing notes and it's like, you read the note and it's like, Maya sucks. And it's like, why, why'd you read the note? It's like, what do you mean? Why did you, okay, Jack Taylor.
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
Let's fucking go.
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
bad.
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
Yeah.
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
I'm like, from what that looks like, it's a full blown hotel.
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
They're each going to have a roommate. So they're not sleeping in bunk beds anymore. It's going to be like, they're each going to have a roommate. And then there's like a special VIP suite that's available for people on certain occasions. For couples? Yeah. A boom boom. Should they want some alone time?
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
My guy, Jack. Oh, he'll be there for sure. He'll be grilling. Gary will be there. The usual suspects.
The Viall Files
E942 - The Valley w/ Janet, Mormon Wives w/ Chris Klemens, RHOA, and Britani Bateman Scammer Allegations
Honestly, I also had no idea it was back.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
I say Doge double E, perhaps. You know, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, you know, they proposed their Department of Government efficiency. Well, to solve the $2 trillion federal deficit problem, we not only need more efficiency, we need eliminations.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
So while people might envision the federal government and the two million federal civil servants we have working more efficiently, that's great and fine. They do need to work more efficiently. We also need to eliminate programs.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
Well, Trump unfortunately has said he wouldn't cut the two biggest programs in the federal budget, Social Security and Medicare. He's probably not going to cut defense either because his party traditionally supports big defense spending. So those are the three biggest programs in the federal budget. So what else can you cut? Well, the next biggest pot of money in the federal budget is.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
is aid from the federal government to state and local governments. That's $1.1 trillion of spending every year. So this is aid for highways, K-12 education, Medicaid, housing, community development, that sort of stuff. I think that stuff can be cut. I think it should be cut. I think state governments can pick up the slack.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
State governments are actually in a very strong budget position these days with large rainy day funds. So I think the federal government can and should cut this flow of money from the federal government down to state government. So then the states can, you know, can... can respond as they please. They can raise taxes. They can cut other spending.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
State governments are required to balance their budgets. So that's a good thing. The federal government will cut the subsidies. Then state governments can handle the fallout and figure out how they want to reorganize their budgets.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
No, that's right. And every state would respond in a differential source of ways. Diversity, I think that's a good thing. You know, if the federal government cut a welfare program like public housing, you know, New York might decide to fund its own public housing, but say Texas might decide, hey, we're going to privatize our public housing.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
But I think those differential kind of responses by the states would be a good thing. I think that when the federal government cuts aid to the states, it should phase it in. It should, you know, phase it in over, say, five years to give state legislatures the time to plan, you know, how they're going to respond and whether they're going to cover the funding for these programs themselves.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
But, you know, currently the federal government has 1,300 different federal aid to state programs. This is a massive web of programs that has grown particularly since the 1960s. I don't think these programs have worked particularly well. They're extremely bureaucratic when you involve two or three levels of government in funding programs.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
I think we'd have a much more efficient government at all levels if we got the federal government out of these properly state activities.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
I would like to see that. And over the last century, power has become centralized in Washington, in my view, for no particular reason. And I'll give you a story about that, Sean. So I grew up in Canada. Canada is a high-income democracy. It's a much more decentralized federation than United States. In rough terms, government spending in United States is two-thirds federal and one-third state.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
Canada is the flip. Canada is only one-third federal and two-thirds provincial. As an example of that, Canada has no federal department of education. And on international test scores, Canadian students do substantially better than American students. So I don't believe you need to centralize some of these activities to have well-functioning government.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
And I think Canada, it's not a great model for some things. I think the current prime minister has had lots of problems. However, I think the basic governmental structure of being a decentralized federation is a good model for us to look at.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
There is a tradition of Congress putting together big fancy blue ribbon commissions, writing big reports, and then the reports end up on shelves collecting dust. That is true. However, I think the debt problem is much bigger than it was 10 years ago. I think something that's changed as well is the threat of inflation.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
You know, we found out during this last election how incredibly unpopular bouts of inflation are. And, you know, Republicans have spent the last two years blaming all the inflation on Biden's spending.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
Whether or not you buy that as an economic argument, I think going ahead, Republicans will be scared that if the deficits are too big and the spending is too large, they risk a bout of inflation leading up to the midterms. I think they should be scared of that. And I do think that that
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
should be an impetus for them to start making some spending reforms to encourage financial markets that there will be a problem to these massive deficits in Washington. So I think there is a political opening here. Presidents have their most legislative leverage in their first year.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
And I think they need to start cutting in the first year again in order to ward off inflation as well as to actually, you know, get something done before the midterms get too close on the political calendar.
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
Well, Elon Musk is an interesting example of someone that you can't deny his incredible entrepreneurial success. But it is also true that he's got a lot of corporate welfare over the years, both at the federal level and at the state and local level. One of the problems with our giant government, with its octopus tentacles into everything these days,
Today, Explained
Can DOGE cut $2 trillion?
is that every business gets subsidized, and it's hard to run a business without going to Washington and pleading for subsidies. So, you know, that is true about Musk. I wish, you know, he's got a great car company there. He should wean himself off those federal subsidies.
Today, Explained
Should women be in combat?
When comedian Chris Gethard was growing up, he went to a place called Action Park. It was one of the first water parks in the country. And it was built by a man who had no experience building theme parks. Some people called him a berserk Willy Wonka.
Today, Explained
Should women be in combat?
I'm Phoebe Judge. Listen to our latest episode, Action Park, on Criminal, wherever you get your podcasts.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
The argument is being made that Afrikaners who were the group that imposed apartheid on South Africa in 1948, the very rigid form of racial segregation, are now victims of the post-apartheid era, that they're being targeted with…
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
as the White House and others characterize it, racist laws, that they're victims of discrimination in the post-apartheid order, and that they are victims of politically targeted violence. This is the argument being made.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
Well, what's upsetting Trump and others is that essentially South Africa has an affirmative action program for the black majority and other minority people of color who were discriminated against and left very much at a disadvantage by apartheid. So there's, for instance, a black empowerment legal requirement for businesses.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
There's upliftment in education, in job opportunities, in the civil service. That is now being characterized as discrimination against the white minority. Although it's worth bearing in mind that the white minority at the end of apartheid, which is 30 years ago now, 30 years later still hangs on to its big houses, its swimming pools, its Mercedes-Benz.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
So there's a group in South Africa which describes itself as an Afrikaner rights group called AfriForum. And the Southern Poverty Law Center has described it as white supremacists in a suit and a tie. The leadership of that group came to the United States in 2018. And amongst other things, they appeared on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox News.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
They laid out the case that whites were the victims of discrimination in South Africa, but particularly latched onto this issue of the killing of white farmers.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
Which is totally untrue. But they appeared on Tucker Carlson. Trump was watching. This is when he's president in 2018. And he tweets to his then Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, telling him to watch the situation in South Africa with the whites and how they're being victimized. And others pick up on this around the states afterwards. And it starts to gain some momentum.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
Well, you'd have to assume they did because there's no real explanation otherwise as to why Trump is so engaged with this issue. Why, you know, three weeks into his second term of office, he's suddenly issuing this executive order about one country. So one has to imagine that it's Elon Musk who was born in apartheid South Africa and grew up there, left at 18. But he's not the only one.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
There's a group of white men that all have apartheid South African childhoods in some form or other. known as the PayPal mafia. They all get to know each other at the top of PayPal. They all get rich through PayPal. These include the billionaire libertarian Peter Thiel. Now, Thiel was born in Germany, but his father took him to South Africa at a young age.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
And then the other kind of two major players are a guy called David Sachs, who is another tech billionaire. He's now Trump's AI and crypto czar. He was born in Cape Town, although his parents moved to Tennessee when he was five. So he did not grow up fully kind of imbued with the apartheid system, although he grew up in the white South African diaspora of the time.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
It separated every aspect of life. So jobs were reserved only for white people. Interracial marriage and interracial sex was illegal under the Immorality Act. Every aspect of daily life was separate. But Musk's teenage years would have been in a huge tumult of South Africa's uprising against apartheid.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
By the mid-80s, you've got a state of emergency, you've got civic society constantly protesting, you've got mass arrests, children incarcerated in their thousands.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
The country increasingly ungovernable, the army attempting to keep some kind of order in the townships. So Musk was growing up at this time of incredible turmoil.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
And on the streets of Pretoria, where he went to school, he would have seen the Africana resistance movement, which was an openly neo-Nazi group that actually modelled its badge on the swastika and had the same colours as the Nazis and marched up and down the streets doing Hitler salutes.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
Errol Musk, Elon's father, has described his parents-in-law as open neo-Nazis and fascists and supporters, enthusiastic supporters of apartheid. They used to support Hitler and all that sort of stuff. Now, Errol himself was a member of something called the Progressive Federal Party. And that really was a small opposition party in parliament opposed to apartheid.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
But leaves the party eventually in the 1980s because it was advocating one person, one vote. In other words, complete equality of democracy. And he didn't agree with that. You know, he was like a lot of white South Africans of that era, particularly English speakers who were doing quite well out of the economics of apartheid, who said that they were against it in principle.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
but actually didn't do very much to oppose it and certainly benefited from it enormously. And so he was the liberal in the family, but obviously only up to a point.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
Yes, he's had plenty to say. He's retweeted or commented on tweets that essentially argue that there's either a genocide underway against whites or a genocide coming. He recently openly challenged the president of South Africa, Cyril Ramaphosa, on Twitter to accusing him of imposing racist discriminatory laws against white people.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
So he's very much taken an adversarial position on this, which I suspect at least goes some way to explain why Trump has done the same.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
Well, as it happens, we watch Musk's commentary on white South Africans ramp up at a time when he was starting to get into conflict with the South African government over Starlink, his satellite business. Huh.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
He wanted to get it into South Africa, but part of the present dispensation, kind of compensating for apartheid, is that all foreign businesses investing in South Africa have to have a local black empowerment component. In telecoms, which is the area of Starlink, it's 30%. So there has to be 30%. investment in the local business. And Musk objects to this.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
He says he doesn't want anybody else in his business. And he's trying and may actually succeed to break down the requirement that he has to have this black empowerment element in his investments in South Africa. There are other motives and I think this isn't the only case where you can look and see a financial incentive in some of these decisions that are being made.
Today, Explained
Elon's African roots
So I guess I would say, you know, read up on South Africa, look at what's really going on rather than just take the word of those who have the power to set policy.
Today, Explained
Did diversity ever work ... at work?
The argument that I favor is to say, no, the right needs to have its own interpretation of civil rights law, and it needs to take over enforcement of civil rights law, to have essentially an alternative vision that is... kind of Spartan system of colorblind equality. There is no reward or punishment based on ancestry.
Today, Explained
Did diversity ever work ... at work?
And if you do that in admissions, hiring, promotions, contracting, you should pay just as heavy a price as if someone was, you know, segregating the lunch counters in the past. And I think my position in 2020-21 is now the majority position on the right.
Today, Explained
My colleague, the scammer
New at 10, an Arizona woman has been indicted in a series of complex identity theft cases that have been generating money for the North Korean government. Christina Chapman was working out of her house in Litchfield Park. Someone approached her on LinkedIn, asking her to be the US face of their company.
Today, Explained
An America First trap
This country during the past few years, culminating with the holly smooth tariff of 1929, has compelled the world to build tariff fences so high that world trade is decreasing to the vanishing point. The value of goods internationally exchanged is today less than half of what it was just three or four years ago.
Today, Explained
Rebuilding Los Angeles
what's up guys it's christina your price gouging landlord's worst nightmare here to report another property uh whose rent was raised since the fire started i scroll down to the bottom to look at the rental history and oh look um this listing was increased by 2500 a month on the second day of the devastating fires um that is a price gouge they are obviously trying to take advantage of people who have lost their homes and need a place to stay um this is my spreadsheet that i'm keeping
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
If I've heard Lauren and her husband say... I see you're frustrated. One time I've heard it 10 million times. They're always talking it through and giving her time and space to talk through it. It is very gentle, and it takes—who has that kind of time? No wonder you're late. You just say to her, Sutton, if you have these pair of socks, pick the most comfortable socks. You have 30 seconds.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
If you don't, I'm picking for you and we're out the door. That's my version of gentle parenting. Rather than slamming the socks, I do respect that she has these challenges. Who has time to talk it all through and... And they do. They talk everything out.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
I'm just going to say a lot less talking. Probably a lot less acknowledgement of her feelings, I think. And a lot more, this too shall pass. I think now there is so much acknowledgement of her feeling. And it has given her, I think, a sense of entitlement that I didn't allow my kids to have. She's very into herself. And it plays out in ways that I wouldn't have put up with.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
And I don't know if that's good or bad. I can't think of a time that child has ever been yelled at. Now, in my day, I was a gentle parent. I'm not kidding you. I can't think that they've raised their voice with her. Lauren, I'm not exaggerating. I've probably yelled at her more than you've ever yelled at her.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
The style of parenting that they have now doesn't have consequences. I took toys away more often. I sent them into their rooms more often. Lauren's children, and my other daughter's children as well, They don't have, there's no consequential parent, no consequences for the behaviors. It's generally a conversation. And it's generally a let's talk about why did you hit your sister?
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
Well, I'm like, you hit your sister, sit in that chair. I don't see that happening.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
I think it was easier to be fostered. free of judgment because there weren't so many eyes on me. And so I think that Lauren feels more judged than I ever felt because she's out there and she works in the field where she sees a lot of other mothers. I was younger than she was and I just didn't see it as much. Judgment's always been there.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
It's just now very up in your face because people look at it on the internet.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
Well, I don't think you're doing anything wrong with your kids. I do think occasionally if there's something that I think is a red flag and I try not to give advice because I do think that you're a great mom. I think you and Greg are doing it the best you can.
Today, Explained
Generation Gentle Parent
Other than all of the talking, and I would say their daughter with me when she has a sock issue, if I say, you have three pairs of socks, let's put them on, believe me, she picks the socks, she puts them on, we're out the door in five minutes.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
I better eat my Wheaties. They realized Wheaties would be a good test for this stuff. And so they went out to their roster of like fitness enthusiasts. And the information they were hearing back was, you know, a Wheaties protein product would ideally have at least 15 grams of protein per serving, which is kind of a lot.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
You know, the challenge for them was preserving the fidelity of the flake because Wheaties eaters are surprisingly hardcore about what a Wheaties should taste like and how hard it should be. Yeah. crunchy it should be. So it was actually wheat germ and soy protein isolate that they had to combine and make it somehow taste like the old version of Wheaties.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And they went through 40 different iterations over it, over a multi-year R&D period. And it was kind of funny because they rolled out all these different versions over the years in little glass containers, kind of like little, I don't know, like Jurassic Park embryos or something. And I asked them to take a picture of it, and then they were just like, oh, no, we can't do that.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Like, it was like Illuminati levels of secrecy for all these cereal shapes.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Speaking of Jurassic Park, I was trying to picture, how do you get protein into food? Because it's not just Wheaties. It's also Cheerios. It's also, like you said, it's granola bars. It's everything. And all I can imagine is a person with, like, a big needle... Somehow the needle has liquid protein. They're just like plunging the needle into a weedy flake. I'm guessing no. But how does it work?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Yeah, it isn't too far off from Jurassic Park, as I understand it. You're altering the DNA of whatever the food is on a very granular level. You know, it's like they'll take the wheat germ that they were using for Wheaties, for example. put in some protein and then they have like all these calculations about like how much liquid to use.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And they're just calibrating that until they get something that sort of resembles the traditional product, but is maybe just a little bit off.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And then on top of that, they'll try to mask it with, you know, nut clusters and all this other stuff to sort of like take your eye off the ball a little bit that this isn't the old one you're eating, but it's a little bit different, but it can't be too different. And I think that's kind of the trick towards all these new protein food products, honestly. Yeah.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
You know, you're pointing at something here. Listeners will know I am obsessed with ultra processed foods and what they may be doing to us. I drank a protein shake the other day and I was like, oh, my God, none of this is stuff that I could find in my own kitchen. And so a thing I wonder is, are we just eating junk food? Is all the high protein stuff crap?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Yeah, you know, where I sort of landed, and this flip-flops every day, if you ask me the same question tomorrow, I might have a different answer for you. But it's still junk, but it's kind of a lesser evil situation to my mind.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
A lot of the researchers I talked to, there was this one guy named Alan Aragon, who's sort of like been at the forefront of a lot of protein and fitness research over these past couple decades. He made the point that really kind of shocked me that this stuff is actually really useful for people who are maybe a little bit older and they're dealing with age-related muscle loss.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And it's just so much easier for them to eat a bowl of cereal versus like a huge sirloin steak that a carnivore diet influencer would make for themselves and eat off a cutting board or something like that. It's maybe not ideal. Maybe we should be getting our protein from whole sources like, you know. fish and like grass fed meat and tofu and stuff like that.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
I went to the store, got like some chicken breast, boiled it, blended it in a blender. It was like... I added a splash of water and then it smelled like, you know, I was just like, dude, I'm making soup here. This is so weird. So then I added like every berry, every frozen banana, like everything I could basically find in my freezer. And, you know, to make it a little bit more tolerable.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
But you know, we don't live in a sort of ideal world. We're always on the move and like need convenience when we can. So I'll occasionally indulge in like a protein thing that tastes like a pop tart and feel not too bad about it if I can help it.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
There's a thing that happens. It has certainly happened to me, probably most people, where you realize that like you're not getting enough calcium, right, or enough iron. And then suddenly you are slamming iron tablets and spinach and steak. And then you read something that's like, oh, you should only actually be getting such and such milligrams every day.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
We are as a culture really obsessed with protein right now. Has anyone dug into whether we are getting too much?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
So in terms of how much protein a person might need, the RDA works out to basically 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. That's a lot of math, but more recent research suggests that it should be probably closer to 1.6, which is double what the old RDA was. Most people probably aren't getting enough, especially if you work out.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And, you know, protein is a source of our cellular, like, healing and all that stuff. So, yeah, we're probably all not eating enough, honestly.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
I'm Noelle King. You and me and everyone we know is going to the gym lately, and so is writer Chris Gaiomali. Chris publishes the health and wellness newsletter Heavies, and he recently wrote a big piece about protein for Grub Street that started with his path to protein obsession.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
We've all learned to be suspicious of big food companies, right? There are a lot of problems with the American diet, and we're all aware of it. There are a lot of chronic conditions that stem from the American diet. When you think about what the story of protein and its rise and then continued rise tells us about ourselves, what do you think is the story behind the story here?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
I feel like we're just getting so much smarter about nutrition now. I always think back to my youth when the, you know, the food pyramid at the bottom of it was like your foundation of a healthy diet is like 6 to 11 daily breads or something. That's so many carbs. That's so much bread. It's so weird because some of this stuff gets really rigid really fast. But then research is also moving fast.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And so it's kind of weird because you have to balance some conspiratorial thinking with all these podcasters and people, randos on TikTok who are making really strong health recommendations not founded in any sort of like real science with sort of what sounds about right. And so it's kind of like a personal calculation is where I've kind of landed on it.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
You know, if like eating a little bit more protein helps you feel good, then by all means do it. I've personally sort of started eating double the amount that I was eating prior to reporting this story. Then I feel pretty good and not too terrible with myself. So that's where I've landed with all of that.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
There you go. There you go. That is it. That is why we do it.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
All right. Chris Gayomali. Check him out at Heavies on Substack. Gabrielle Berbet produced today's show. Amina El-Sadi edited. Matthew Billy and Andrea Kristen's daughter engineered. And Laura Bullard checks the facts. Hadi Mawagdi, Amanda Llewellyn, Devin Schwartz, Victoria Chamberlain, Travis Larchuk, Miles Bryan, and Avishai Artsy produced today, explained.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Miranda Kennedy is our EP, and Jolie Myers is our deputy EP. Sean Ramos' firm is taking an airplane to South by Southwest this week to ask Minnesota Governor Tim Walz about all those J.D. Vance memes. If you're in Austin, stop by. The Vox Media podcast stage is presented by Smartsheet.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And this Sunday, right here in this feed, you're going to find our new weekend show, Explain It To Me, hosted by Jonquil and Hill. JQ, what's the show about on Sunday?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
This actually started a few years ago here in New York. Once lockdown restrictions sort of eased up, the gyms were kind of the first thing to open. And so mostly out of boredom, I started going to my Muay Thai gym like five or six days a week and got really, really fit. Around that same time, I started listening to health podcasts like Huberman Lab.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
1-800-618-8545. Thanks, JQ. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained. Today Explained is distributed by WNYC, and the show is a part of Vox.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
When I heard this, I thought, there's no way this is true, which was making sure that you get 30 or so grams of protein within 30 minutes of waking.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And I was constantly getting all these messages that, like, you're not getting enough protein in your diet. And so that sort of triggered my fall down this trap door towards the protein event horizon.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
I blend chicken twice a day to be an open pro bodybuilder. Chug that baby down.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
We are going to extreme lengths to get more protein these days. The powders, the shakes, the cottage cheese and the oatmeal, the peanut butter and everything, and the chicken smoothie.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Somebody get this man some protein! I, myself, do listen to Huberman, and... I have gotten the message, too. I think a lot more about protein than I ever thought I would think about protein. Same here. Me of 36 months ago would not recognize this person. Tell me where protein mania begins. Is this a recent phenomenon?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
So it actually really starts with whey protein. And for that, you have to go back to right after World War II.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
A lot of farming became really industrialized. And around that time, we really saw dairy production really start to ratchet up here in the United States.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
There was just like so much cheese that they were making, especially in Vermont and Wisconsin.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
When you make cheese, its liquid byproduct is whey, which has historically been treated as a refuse that was like either dumped in the rivers or fed to pigs and cattle. Once the whey is discarded at least, it kind of has nowhere to go. And there was one cheese plant in 1942 that actually used to dump all its whey product into an old drinking well.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
The substance produced so much gas that at one point the well's cover blew off. Things really started to change in the 1970s when a couple of things started happening in tandem. The big one was there was kind of this swell of environmental legislation that came out that sort of just made dumping away not the move.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
All these manufacturers had to find a use for this stuff that was essentially garbage. And Meanwhile, there were technological breakthroughs in fields like microfiltration, which made it easier to transform the whey into a powder that you could actually mix with water and drink down. So that's kind of how we got to this point where you're able to drink whey protein as we know it today.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And then the other thing that happened was in 1977, there was this big documentary that came out called Pumping Iron. And now we come to the heavyweights. Over 200 pounds. Starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
It was kind of a mind-blowing thing at the time. Like, this guy came out of nowhere and had biceps on top of his biceps.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
It kind of kicked off a real bodybuilding boom. And from there, people just really wanted protein and to look like the Terminator.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And then my wife tried it, too. And she was like, oh, yeah, you could definitely feel the chicken on that. And so I had this like, you know, venti sized chicken smoothie that I had to drink all myself because I can't waste anything in my house.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Whey protein, like that kind of set the model for a lot of different plant proteins. It was basically the same model where it was like, you know, we have all this excess trash and mush, like especially from the soybean oil industry. And they were like, hey, we have all this soy mush left over from, you know, extracting oil. What should we do with it?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And then they figured out that you can really transform this stuff into soluble powders. And it's actually pretty nutrient dense, too. But what's really funny about it is it's like this whole protein boom is like people just figured out that you can take existing garbage essentially and sell it to people. And so that's how we got to where we are today.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
But more recently, you know, they're sort of synthesizing all sorts of plants. There's soy, there's pea, there's algae, there's hemp, there's rice. Yeah, all sorts of stuff that they're sort of mushing up and extracting protein from and turning it into powders that they can jam into all sorts of wacky snacks, which I've tasted a lot of during this journey.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Oh, my gosh. So when I came across this, the existence of this protein soda called Feisty, I was like protein soda. That's that's so wild. But then I talked to the founder.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And she's a former designer at Louis Vuitton based in London. And she actually had her own interesting journey with protein. She had like a gnarly knee injury not too long ago. And her PT was basically like, you should get into lifting.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And from the lifting, she kind of fell in love with the sport and then started researching how to create her own drink that wasn't as heavy, not like a shake that you would have to guzzle down. And so she landed on this idea for a fizzy protein soda.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
You did talk to some plant protein scientists. What does that job entail?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
There's a lot of research being done right now in like genetically modifying certain plants, say pea or, you know, even potatoes. So protein is really tricky and I'm by no means an expert in like how all that stuff sort of holds together.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Admittedly, like, I get a little bit squeamish around, like, fake meats like that.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
There's no way I should be eating this burger that is designed to taste like a cow but isn't a cow. I'm kind of like, just be yourself, burger.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
So there's two parallel tracks here. And one is we are able to just make more kinds of proteins and put them into more types of foods. Exactly. And then sell them to people. And the other is people want them. People are also buying the stuff. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Or is this just a nice confluence of what the customer wants the industry is prepared now to provide?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
In my reporting, I sort of found that, you know, of all the macronutrients, the big three are fat, carbohydrates, and protein. Protein's kind of the only one that's never really been demonized by marketers and, like, pop scientists and Atkins and, like, all that stuff. It's like, you think of carbohydrates, it was like that was verboten at one point.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Fat, definitely a verboten at one point. The analogy I like to use is protein's kind of like the Dolly Parton of macronutrients. Like, we can all agree that she's pretty great, regardless of your identity or, like, political affiliation.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
My hopes for the new year is a little more kindness, a little more love. So, speaking of Dolly, and also speaking of Arnold Schwarzenegger, I love Arnold, but... As like a woman, I don't aspire to look like Arnold. But the algorithm has found me anyway. Like I go on Instagram and the ladies are serving me protein.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Yeah, buddy. I know. That's what you wanted. And I'm a giver. I'm a lover. How did we go from this is kind of male-dominated, muscles on muscles on muscles, to a lot of female health influencers are evangelizing it also? When does that turn happen?
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
It has to do with the sort of normalizing of fitness culture, which you have also fallen into in the past.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
And I think part of it is like, you know, post pandemic, we were just so concerned about our mortality and watching death sort of surround us in a real way that a lot of people decided to get healthy kind of at the same time. But also, you know, your point about influencers is really interesting. One of the big ones is Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. She's a part of the sort of Huberman cinematic universe.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Really compelling figure in her mid-50s, I think, and she looks like she could deadlift like a Miata if she needed to. But she's argued that women, especially as they enter menopause, need to be lifting weights and eating way more protein to stay healthy.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
She's so turbo, but I think she's onto something, and I think that's really hitting a note with a lot of people across all stripes.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
The other big cultural moment that we're in is the moment of Ozempic and Munjaro and other GLP-1s. Those also affect how much protein we want or need.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
You know, retailers like Walmart especially are like sort of already stocking their shelves with foods that are a little bit more nutrient dense and high in protein.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Mostly because these kind of drugs are so popular right now and they really do limit the amount of food you can eat. So if you can't eat as much food, the thinking goes that you need stuff that's just packed with more nutrients in order to feel okay and good and healthy. So it's kind of really shaping the industry in a very real way right now.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
what i eat in a day i'm miss ozempi i always start my day with some greek yogurt chobani is my favorite and then today is the day that we take our ozempic shots so you already know what that means we need to get in a good high protein meal before doing so let's make a protein coffee while i talk about the importance of protein while on a glp-1 medication i was like um shopping for breakfast cereals for my three-year-old just like looking around and i noticed this svelte new box of wheaties protein which like advertised 20 something grams of protein on the cover
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
there was no old Wheaties. Like it had been replaced seemingly overnight by this like very, you know, buff new insurgent, I guess. And so I was kind of like, I was like, huh. And so in the course of this, I hit up General Mills, which, you know, owns this big portfolio of food products and Wheaties especially. Ben asked if I could come out and check out what they're doing over there.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
Coming up, Chris goes behind the veil at General Mills. Today Explained is back with me, Noelle from work, and Chris Gayomali. Now, as you've skittered around the aisles of your local grocery store, you have likely wondered at some point, how are they getting the protein into all this stuff? Chris had the same thought, and then he scored an invitation.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
So last November, I landed in Minneapolis and took an Uber out to General Mills headquarters. And it's this beautiful picturesque campus just outside of Minneapolis. They have like this sculpture garden outside. It's just this beautiful campus with duck ponds and there was like foliage everywhere. And then I'm inside this building where they make all these snack products.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
General Mills, they began looking into, you know, jamming protein into a lot of their products maybe a little over 10 years ago. They had this Nature Valley bar that they had like jammed a little bit more protein in. And then once they started selling it, they realized they could make a lot of money off of this stuff. I think it did like $100 million in its first year or something like that.
Today, Explained
Whey too much protein
So they were like... okay, maybe there's other products we can put protein into that would make us a ton of money. And so Wheaties being, you know, their flagship sort of cereal product that like, you know, has Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan and Serena Williams and all those people on the cover.
Today, Explained
Canadian bakin’
Failed president and former prosecutor was down to clown? People shouldn't have to go to jail for smoking weed. Even health-conscious brainworm guy likes it.
Today, Explained
Prepping for doomsday
Please don't do it! Please don't do it! Please don't! You had your chance! I'm infected! I'm infected!
Today, Explained
Prepping for doomsday
Tyler Smith and his cousin Chris are building homemade body armor. They hope it will give them the upper hand if society collapses.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Hi, this is Chris with the University of Utah Police. Hi, my daughter, Lauren McCloskey, was talking to her mom, and then she just started saying, no, no, no, no, no, and it sounded bad. Like someone might have been grabbing her or something.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
This was just two minutes ago. Okay. Bill, can you come down here?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Yeah, the phone line went dead.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
No, I'm sorry. The phone is not dead, but we can't... She must have dropped it. She must have dropped it, and the phone connection is still here. Do you want the number?
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
She had broken up with a boy or a man recently. Sean Fields is his name.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
His friends were kind of harassing her a little bit. Well, they were. The Kansas police were involved with that.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
perfect all right and you said she was walking to her car from what building from the gc which is uh what is that something common gardner commons oh someone's talking on her phone hello hi i have a backpack okay um could you just uh stay there uh she I think she was mugged. Um, I'm talking to the cops. Okay. But maybe somebody picked up her backpack. Someone picked up her phone and backpack.
True Crime with Rachel Shannon
SOLVED: THE DEVASTATING MURDER OF LAUREN MCCLUSKEY
Oh, yeah, I think they're pretty... It's right by her apartment. It's right by her apartment? Yeah. And you said it's right by that building? Well, I think so. Maybe the scout should call the cops. Tell her to just call the cops directly. Would that be better?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It talks about some pretty serious issues with addiction and there's some body shaming. So please skip if you can't handle that today. Markers will be in the description. Thank you.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
This is coming from our very own Too Hot Takes subreddit. 19 hours old. Titled Am I the asshole for telling someone I would never let myself get as fat as her.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I know how it sounds, but hear me out.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I, 25 female, was at a dinner with a group of six girls all around my age. I grew up with and I'm really close with three of the girls. I didn't know the other two very well, but they were close with my close friends. They all went to college together. We were eating at a nice restaurant downtown in our city.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Our table was up against a window and a homeless woman approached the window and was obviously on something or mentally ill. She waved at us and was saying something we couldn't hear over the noise inside. Everyone just looked at each other, giggled and ignored her. It was pretty chilly out and she looked cold. I got up and met her outside and handed her a couple of bucks and wished her well.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
When I got back to the table, one of the girls I didn't know that well, I'll call her Emily, said, quote, Who just lets drugs take over their life? I would just never let myself get like that. I was fuming. I paused and looked at her. For some backstory, Emily is the heaviest girl in the group.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Nein, ich mag die Energie. Chris hat einen neuen Podcast gestartet.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Wir alle haben verschiedene Körpertypen. Ich bin nicht dünn, sie ist plusgeheizt. Außerdem bin ich ein Rückwärtsschämer. Mein Bruder war auch ein Rückwärtsschämer und hat zu einem Zeitpunkt eine Unruhe erlebt. Er ist von einer Überdose gestorben, als ich 17 war.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
My family is full of addicts. I continued down that path and addiction had me in its grips. My friends at the table went to college. I went to rehab and got sober. I said, quote, yeah, exactly. I would never let myself get over 200 pounds. Just put down the fork. Am I right?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Everyone was silent. I mean, yeah. You could cut the tension with a knife.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Emily looked at me clearly upset and explained how she has a thyroid issue and chronic fatigue syndrome and for some people it's really hard to lose weight. I said, quote, well maybe that woman has an issue that we don't know about. And I left some cash for my food and I left. My friends I'm close with texted and said that I was out of line and Emily is super self-conscious.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I feel bad for going low and hitting where it hurts, but I just wanted them to get some perspective. I don't think I owe Emily an apology before she apologizes. Am I the asshole?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I think both. I think when it's like, obviously it's like her saying something privately about a stranger. Shitty, especially you don't know what she's dealing with. She's homeless. She's clearly struggling mentally. You know, there's a lot going on there. But that wasn't like... directly to that woman.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Give us the lowdown of what your show is, though, because you just gave it the perfect plug. Ich bin einfach so eine nassige Scheiße.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I completely agree. I think, and I don't like looking at like conversations or friendships as like power, but like in terms of like you trying to get this back on course, teach them a lesson, imply some new perspective, as you said. I think you lose the power of sense. You lose the power of conveying your message when you start talking. cutting at someone else.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
You have every right to be. What you were feeling is so valid. But you also then just, like, kind of gave her this, like, Ja, genau. Yeah, you could have had such a more meaningful teaching moment in this and just been like, just so you know, I've struggled with addiction. It is a hard thing to recover from and you don't know what her story is.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I know. And just like, I mean, that... That is a crazy thing to say to someone. Yeah, exactly. I would never let myself get over 200 pounds. Just put the fork down, am I right?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's a really... It was very... I was shocked by it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I would have immediately gone up and gone to the bathroom.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ich verstehe es total. Aber du hättest sie gut korrigiert, wenn du gesagt hättest, dass wir nicht wissen, was die Leute durchgehen. Empathie geht eine lange Zeit. Anstatt nur so niedrig wie sie. Sie ging nach ihrem Körper. Das war ziemlich niedrig. Ich verstehe, dass du persönlich getriggert warst. Aber das gibt dir nicht das Recht, nach jemandem zu gehen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And I think, like, having that, you know, too, like, having empathy goes a long way. We don't know what she's going through. Like, it leaves her embarrassed to a point where, like, I do think people that get embarrassed around other people and friends and whatever, like, I think that would have been a better... Learning experience. Better motivator for her to change.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh, you guys, just me dripping. Another day, another drip. It's fine. I spill on myself more than any other human.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay. Okay. Okay. We met and I started off by saying I was sorry for making it personal and making a comment about her appearance. And I would be really hurt if someone did this to me. Then I went on to explain how her comment about addiction being a choice is really uneducated and offensive.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
She said, thanks for apologizing, but my dad is an alcoholic and he chose alcohol over my mom and I. I would just never do that. I tried to explain to her that her dad got to a point where he didn't have a choice anymore. He had a disease, and he probably felt shame every day for it. And I'm sorry that you didn't get what you needed as a kid or now.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He probably didn't either, and that's why he found a way to cope, just like I did. She said she understands now and why she copes with food sometimes. I gave her props because food addiction can be challenging because you can't just stop eating, unlike drugs, where you don't have to be around them. We thanked each other, shared some more stories. We will remain friends and try to connect more.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Thanks, folks. Cute. Happy-ish ending.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ich weiß. Es ist verrückt, wie jeder processiert. Und unsere Gehirne sind so... Wie können wir alle etwas rationalisieren? Für mich, ich habe Alkoholismus auf meiner Vorderseite. Und ich verstehe es. Und ich sehe es als eine Krankheit. Aber ich erinnere mich an das Junge und das Unmature. Und ich denke, das ist eine Wahl.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Glückes Ende. Happy ending. Okay, moving along to the next one, because that was a lot. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Just like choosing a carrot cake recipe, if you know, you know, State Farm has options to choose from to help you find coverage that best fits your needs. Sounds a lot easier than a coin flip.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. We're ending this with the Jolly Rancher today.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I didn't drip on that one. But okay, go back to your show. Tell the people.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It'll be on Patreon. It's going to be the free story for the month. I don't want to gross people out too much. Did I get it right? You'll see.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Didn't I give you a death grip story? Or was that Joe Santagato?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ja. Ja, wir haben beide das gleiche kleine... in unseren Gehirnen. Ja, das war gut. Okay, das nächste ist von A-I-T-A-H.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I know. It is titled Am I the asshole for refusing to continue breastfeeding the twins I was a surrogate for?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
There's been a mom that her nipple was bit off.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ich habe darüber geredet, ich habe darüber geredet, Männer können Laktat, du weißt das, richtig?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
This is gonna be so great. Okay, am I the asshole for refusing to continue breastfeeding the twins I was a surrogate for? I am a 32-year-old female and served as a surrogate mother to my 36 female sister who couldn't bear children as a result of her cancer treatments. I carried twins for her and her husband using their embryos. The delivery took place three months ago.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
This is where it got bizarre. My sister keeps requesting me to breastfeed the twins since breast is best and she can't lactate. Ich habe zuerst gegeneinander verabschiedet, weil ich sie unterstützen wollte, aber es geht ums Übernehmen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
She insists that I visit her five to six times a day or express milk enough for all meals.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Says a man. Classic. Die Situation, die gestern gebraten wurde, als ich in die Wohnung ging und meine Schwester entdeckte, hat mir eine Schlaufe für mich geschaffen und hat versprochen, dass ich einfach in die Wohnung komme, um die Twins, wenn sie es wollen, zu füllen. Ich habe ihr Nein gesagt und habe ihr erwähnt, dass die Formulierung eine perfekt adäquate Weise war, um zu supplementieren.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Sie hat sich verurteilt und gesagt, dass ich meine Brüder verabschieden und unseren Vertrag brechen würde. Ich bin weg, ohne ihnen Essen zu geben. My mom said my sister and I should be more understanding about her situation. But to be honest, I feel my body is being used as a dairy farm. Am I the asshole if I wouldn't want to be their full-time milk supply?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Twins? She's postpartum. She's got hormones. She's got all this crazy stuff going on.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I'm also like really curious and maybe some moms out there could chime in. Because I know too, if like you have a baby... Du fängst an zu produzieren, natürlich. Aber wenn du nicht wachst, wachst du viel schneller, offensichtlich. Und es sind einige Moms, die es tun, weil sie sofort zurück zur Arbeit gehen und sie wollen nicht pumpen oder das tun.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Also habe ich Freunde, die nicht wachst, weil sie für ihre Leben und sie waren, es hat einfach Sinn gemacht, richtig? Ja. Und so bin ich so, sie ist auch jetzt an der Zeit, wo sie nicht trocknen konnte, sie muss pumpen. Und sie muss jetzt durch diese Phase von weinen und die kleinen Pads tragen. Weil wenn du ein Baby weinst, fängst du an, Milch zu spritzen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I know. I'm on the same planet as someone that did that.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Und dann siehst du aus, als hättest du eine weite Shirt. Sie hat auch ihr Körper verleugnet, um diese Twins zu haben. Und jetzt macht sie noch mehr Verleugnisse. Kommt her, fünf bis sechs Mal am Tag.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
No. What are they going to do? I feel like this is where my brain goes crazy. They made a bedroom for her. Are they going to hold her hostage in it?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
That's crazy. Where's her little four-year-old going to stay?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah. This is goofy. Not the asshole. The fact that you would even question.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
You've already done the hard part. Just breastfeed. Have you heard of the clogged ducts?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I just learned about it. You've already done the hard part.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay, but honestly, the one that you shared from your show, I'm like more blown away by than the coconut.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Men can lactate or produce breast milk, though it's less common than in women. This is typically due to a surge in the hormone prolactin, which stimulates milk production in the mammary glands. So I feel like you could just...
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Things that can increase prolactin levels in men? Starvation, liver cirrhosis, certain medical conditions.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Top Comment on this one. Not the asshole. You gave her a gift, not a subscription.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
You already did something massive. You carried two human beings inside you for nine months. You wrecked your sleep, your hormones, your body, your schedule, and probably your sanity at times for someone else. That is Olympic-level generosity. But apparently, in your sister's mind, that wasn't the end of the favor. I would be going nuclear.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I would honestly have to really distance myself from my sister at this point.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Do you remember that one crazy ass story we had and we did end up getting an update? I like immediately texted it to you when I saw it come out. Yes!
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
The one where the girl just like briefly wrote in, she was like, I slept with a homeless person and ended up getting throat.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oop. Das ist ein wirklich guter Punkt. Ich wundere, ob sie mit Blättern kämpfen und es einfacher ist, die Schwester zu nennen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
OP-Response. Das ist genau das, was ich dachte. Ich fühle mich, als ob sie den Vorteil unserer Beziehung nehmen. Mhm. Other comment from OP. Someone says, it's a shame these details weren't previously agreed upon. However, if they had used a paid surrogate, they certainly wouldn't expect that of her. There's nothing wrong with reclaiming your body and time now.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Give them some space if they are unable to accept that. OP says, yeah, probably the best thing to keep some distance until all of us have calmed down a little bit. Until they calm down. I think you're on track, baby.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
The stuff I put myself through, trying to be nice, like the other day, I was on a plane flying and I was waiting for a bathroom. And I'd been waiting there for like five minutes. It was very clear, like whoever was in the one on the right was taking a poop. And the girl that was in line in front of me had gone in. They both come out at the same time.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And a guy that had just walked up across the way was like... Oh, are you in line? I'm like, yeah, clearly I'm in line. I'm not standing here in front of an airplane bathroom for fun. And in my head I was like, should I take the smaller one because I'm smaller? I was like, that would be the nice thing to do. But I'm like, clearly someone just took a massive shit in there.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And so I picked the one that the girl came out of.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
But I felt bad. I was like, I put this bigger guy in a tiny bathroom and, you know, whatever. But I'm like, I was waiting way longer. Why do I have to go in the shit one?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I'm thinking about a bathroom, you're not grabbing shit off of a shelf. Because I think... Why are we so nice?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
What? That's crazy. Is that like entitlement, audacity?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ey. God, Chili sounds so good. No, Chili sounds fucking amazing. We need like super, we need.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I get you're trying to be a good partner, but stay out of it. You sound deranged.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Unless you start taking prolactin supplements, then you should shut up.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
You can get it from a pituitary tumor, which, that doesn't sound good. It's also what my horse has.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Pituitary tumor. Tumor. Yeah, it's called Cushing's disease. Oh, and your horse has it? Yeah, he's very, he's needy. He gets two pills a day.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's called Presend. It's like a medication.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I feel like... I literally... This is the craziest thing that is coming to my mind now.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So there's a radio station in Minnesota where we're from.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's kind of iconic. It's Dave Ryan, morning show, whatever. Justin is obsessed with it and he listens all the time. There was a story on there the other day and this woman was calling in and she was like, I found a picture on my boyfriend or husband's phone and I'm wondering if I'm overreacting. And she had gone into his phone to send pictures of something to herself.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And when she went in there, she found a video of someone squeezing their breast and milking themselves into a cup of coffee. Apparently, boyfriend, husband, whatever, said, oh, my coworker and me thought it would be funny. And so the coworker pulled down her top and milked herself into a cup of coffee at work.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Every once in a while. It keeps us humble, keeps us on track. Amazing show. Everyone go check it out. It'll be linked in the description.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And I'm just like, the thought of milking yourself as a human... I get a pump doing it, but to physically milk...
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I can't imagine being that close with my office co-workers, one.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
What are you going to do with that video? Just reminisce?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's on YouTube. I'm absolutely obsessed with it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I know. But that was a fun story for you all. And this next one is... Something. I don't know if fun is the right word.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So this is coming from r slash amirong. It is four hours old.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay. It is titled, Caught my stepmom, 37 female, and cousin, 27 male, in the act twice in one day. Told my dad, but he's still with her. Am I wrong for being involved in this mess? Moment of silence for Chris's brain right now.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's really, it's a really, really good show. Good vibes, good energy, best host.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I, 22 female, caught my stepmom, 37 female, and my cousin, 27 male, hooking up at midnight a few weeks ago.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
But I'm so excited to have you here today. I feel like I always want to just like jar you. I always, I know you have the best reactions. So I always try to give you my heavy hitters.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I just went back to my room, hoping I was imagining things. But then, the same day in the evening, I saw them again in the kitchen. This time, it was even worse. My cousin was rubbing his erection against her from behind.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I was shocked, disgusted, and honestly didn't know what to do at first.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
This episode is brought to you by Colgate Optic White. As you guys know, wedding is fast approaching. And Justin and I want our teeth to be white and pearly in all of those photos without going through the pain of other options. Which is why I love Colgate Optic White. Whether you're the bride or a guest, you can get a smile glow up with Colgates Optic White Overnight Whitening Pen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Cause... I decided to tell my dad. The fuck? Because, well, how could I not?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
What kind of Ghostbusters shit is this? They're like, we set up the GoPros, we knew something was going down that night. It was a mess. We caught them in the act. My stepmom tried to make an excuse, my cousin just bolted, and it was chaos. I thought for sure my dad would kick her out or start divorce proceedings. But here's the part that's got me floored. My dad decided to stay with her.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He said they're working through it and that it's complicated. Stay out of your... Bitch, tell your wife to stay out of your cousin. What are you talking about? My stepmom acts like nothing happened and my dad's pretending it's all fine, but I can't look at either of them the same way. I feel betrayed, not just by her, but by my dad for choosing her over what I thought was right.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I expected him to have some more self-respect. Am I wrong?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
There's some crazy ones. But the theme I had is like closure. Like I need closure after reading this. Is closure a cult? Chaos is the closure. That's all we need. So I don't know what the hell we're calling it yet. I'm scared. I'm excited.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Which no mention of dad's age. I'm curious about it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah, unless he had a kid really young.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
No, but that's true. It's fresh on my mind. I saw another story that like the dad isn't leaving someone because he doesn't want to die alone or like someone found out something. I was just like... You deserve love. There is love out there at all ages, no matter what position you're in.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
What position you want to be in later. But the Cousin-Stepmom-Trope, this does not need to occur.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Missionär, du siehst in den Augen tot aus.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Missionär, du siehst in den Augenkontakt.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Terrible. You're not wrong, OP. I think you've been through it. You presented your dad with the information you had. You had a little Ghostbuster recon, caught them. Your work here is done.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Whatever your dad is gonna do, he's gonna do. And you gotta get out of there.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Top comment. Your feelings are valid, but you can't control or dictate other people's actions. You did the right thing. You let your dad know what was going on behind his back. Now it's up to him what he chooses to do with his life. And the same is true for you.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh, I didn't even know any other options.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
We should give that back and we should give Hawaii back.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Just a blob. Let's go back to Pangea. Let's call it Pangea.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Pangea, can you imagine how nice that would have been?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh my god, a high speed train would be incredible.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
That is what word salad looks like when someone has a stroke.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Well, we know why. Why? Because the military tried to create these super highways and the big automobile industry didn't want us to have public transportation. That's why a lot of cities got rid of electric street cars. The big automobile industry. The big three.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Have you ever heard about the car called the Tucker?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Der Tucker. Es ist ein Auto. Es war weit vor seinem Zeitpunkt in Bezug auf Sicherheit und als Hybrid. Und die große Automobilindustrie hat es untergebracht, weil sie die Wettbewerb nicht wollten. Es gibt so viele Verschwörungstheorien über die Automobilindustrie, die Menschen töten, die Autos, die auf Wasser laufen können. Ich bin ein großer Verschwörungstheorist, wenn ihr das nicht wisst.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Wir sollten uns das in einem anderen Episode anschauen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah, I could see it. Have you heard of the Faraday bags? A Faraday bag?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay, so a Faraday bag. Because there's these car thieves now that can come up with an antenna and get your keys RFID, like signal, and they can literally come up to your house with the antenna and steal your car by not even having your key or entering your house. So if you get a Faraday bag, it blocks the signals.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I know. I know. Dashcams, Faraday-Bags, home security systems.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
A window breaker for your car in case you drive into water. I'm gonna start making a list for everyone of must-need items. Getting out of your car if you go into water is very difficult.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Maybe. I haven't read this one. Just going based off the title.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's coming from Relationship Advice.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I don't know, no. My 29 female boyfriend, 35 male, yelled at me for wearing pajamas. My boyfriend and I have been dating for two years. And in the beginning of our relationship, he has gone angry at me for wearing pajamas or loungewear around the house. He says it feels like I'm not putting in any effort for him. But I've told him I value comfort and practicality.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Break up with your boyfriend, yeah, yeah, cause you just wanna wear some loungewear, girl. For the most part, this has worked, but there was an issue several weeks ago where he came home while I was half asleep, saw that I was wearing a tank top that had a stain on it, and woke me up to yell at me about how disgusting and disrespectful this was. To clarify, this tank top was completely clean.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Thank you. I know. We need to do a co-tour next year. That's our goal. Wedding this year, so I'm keeping it a little lower key.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It had been washed several times, but the stain just won't come out. I can't bring myself to throw out lightly stained or ripped clothes because it feels wasteful. And I try to repurpose them as pajamas. Today I came home a little after 9pm. I said hello to him, told him I'd join him in a second and went to change into pajamas. He asked if I could stay wearing my regular clothes.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And I told him I would prefer not to, explaining that I was tired, uncomfortable and in pain from period cramps.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Und so habe ich weiter geändert. Das hat ihn verärgert. Und er hat gesagt, dass es nicht respektvoll war, meine Pajamas zu tragen, nachdem er mir spezifisch gefragt hat, nicht zu tragen. He said it was unfair that I wore cute clothes in front of everyone else all day and to just wear grimy clothes in front of him.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Especially after he was kind enough to give me a ride to work and pick up something from the store for me.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He also argued that my outfit didn't look that uncomfortable.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I tried to point out that the pajamas I changed into are clean and it was hurtful to hear that he thinks I'm grimy and disgusting when I'm just wearing normal house clothes. I also tried to tell him that even if my clothes didn't look uncomfortable, I was, and again, I'm in pain from period cramps.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Chris, Morgan, hot takes versus the people.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I didn't even bother trying to explain that the only reason I was dressed semi-nicely is because he's yelled at me and made me feel bad in the past for wearing comfortable clothes like leggings and hoodies.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I just know that he looks like Mr. Tumnus took some steroids.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I just don't like feeling like I owe someone something pretty to look at and that me looking attractive to him is more important than my physical comfort. This has been a point of contention multiple times in our relationship, where he's pressured me to wear high heels or revealing clothing that I'm not comfortable with because it's what he likes.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I also feel like he might be punishing me because I went out for dinner with a friend, another woman, and while out a man approached us and tried to hit on us both. I have compromised a lot on this issue. But how can I tell him my comfort in my own home is not something I'm willing to compromise?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
We're done. Yeah. This is so bad. This is abuse. Let's call a spade a spade. Also, it's giving like...
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Well, and like, there's no mention of him buying these items for her either.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's really strange. And I think like there's something cute to like, I've seen this thing where guys will get their girlfriend like a dress and be like, put this on. We're going out to dinner. Das ist süß, aber das ist wie ein schöner Gest, ein schöner Geschenk, ein romantischer Abendabend. Aber wenn es jede Entscheidung war, du siehst grimmig aus und du siehst nicht gut genug aus für mich.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
You had someone literally propose in front of you.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ich bin nur zu dir eingetragen, wenn du dich umdrehst. Das ist, wo du anfängst, nicht okay zu werden. Das ist manipulativ, psychologisch seltsam, kontrollierende Verhalten.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Und nochmals, keine Erinnerung, dass er diese Produkte kauft. Wenn du das spielst, weil ich weiß, dass es diesen Tropen gibt. Es gibt 50 Schäden von Grün, wie Anastasia, ich werde dich umdrehen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah, no, he's not good. And the fact he's yelling at you. The minute someone starts yelling at me, we're done.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So I'm looking at some comments, okay?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So, there are quite a few comments that OP responds to. I'm going to read the top one first, just to get that out there, okay? Top comment. They quote OP, I have compromised a lot on this issue, but how can I tell him my comfort in my own home is not something I'm willing to compromise? They go, you've told him, he doesn't care.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
How about looking for a partner who likes you and wants you to be comfortable? Next comment down. Oh, I fear that commenter ate. Yes.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It was so good. So good. Yeah, we'll figure out the co-tour. That'll be a good time in 2026.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
She does, but I think all of us in past relationships, we've all made excuses for partners. We've all put up with stuff that we typically wouldn't. This probably started off Nicht so aggressiv wie das hier, richtig? Und dann wirst du in es enttäuscht. Es ist nichts anderes als, ich meine, das ist Verbrechen. Und Leute haben schwierige Zeiten, die von verbrechlichen Verhältnissen ausgehen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ja, nein, aber ich meine, dieser Kommentar zeigt es, richtig? Wie jemand sagt, zwei Jahre von diesem Scheiß, bist du entspannt?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh mein Gott, wie ihre Selbstvertrauen?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Maybe three. So, Opie does respond to some stuff, okay? Someone goes, His values are warped and you are too grown for this mess. Stand up for yourself. Have some respect. And when you date in the future, meet someone on the same maturity level. Not age, but emotionally and culturally evolved. I'm sure your self-esteem is eroded by the way he harasses you and puts you down. Don't believe it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Lass mich meine Floaties holen. Oh mein Gott. Okay, Nummer 1. I don't know what this is about. It was recommended by my friends on Patreon. I said, hey, I've got Chris coming. What stories should I read for him? And they said, this one. Nar. Nar.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Break the spell and dump him. OP antwortet, in meiner Meinung, er hat absolut eine Porn-Adiktion. Aber er würde dir sagen, er hat nur eine hohe Leibniz. Er folgt vielen Porn-Stars und Only-Fan-Modelle auf IG und mag ihre Fotos. Ich fühle mich, als ob er unrealistische Erwartungen über Dating und Sex hat. Ich bin beeindruckt, dass du das von meinem Posten bekommst. Wow.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And it was like essentially like, it was like date with the intention.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yes. So the caption on it, do you want to read what it says on there?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah. When I started thinking about that, I was like, okay, I know I made the right choice.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I'm like, let me check. Okay, we're good. We're locked in. We're good. Because like that, like your worst day, and if you don't have a partner you can depend on and know will help take care of things or lift you up or...
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I feel like I've read, I definitely have read it somewhere. It was a story from maybe our own Two Outtakes subreddit. And it was someone whose dad died and her partner couldn't even bother to show up to the funeral in a suit. He wore like Adam Sandler basketball short outfit.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Husband. And it's like on my worst day, all I asked him, I begged him to just dress nice and he wore basketball shorts.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh, okay. No, the way I've thought about it. You're giving that ventriloquist movie.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh, a bucket. Yeah. Or like a jar. Yeah, how do you prevent people from eating you?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Could you snort ashes? So me and my mom, we actually opened... This is a lot.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
We were curious about what the ashes looked like, because we had never seen them. Oh, yeah. And so we opened her partner's ashes, and you see some stuff, but it's really just like... What's some stuff?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
This bed, I have to mentally prepare myself for this.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Das sind die Gespräche, die Leute mit ihren Freunden haben.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It's fine. I'm like, wow, this is more than... I'll shift your gear here. We do have an update.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay, I know everyone says this, but wow, I did not expect this to blow up. I'm trying to read everything and respond, but it's a bit overwhelming. So I want to say thank you to those who gave advice and expressed their concerns. I also want to thank everyone who offered DV help resources, especially the book, Why Does He Do That? It's been eye-opening. He and I talked about what happened.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He said he was really angry about something that happened at work and was expecting sex when I got home, so he was disappointed that I immediately got ready for bed. I'm honestly more upset to learn that he was taking his anger and frustration out about something completely unrelated out on me, but I figured I should update y'all with his response.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Also he said he wasn't mad about the man hitting on me, but that I lied to the guy instead of just saying I wasn't interested. I told him my friend and I were on a date. Oh mein Gott. Lastly, a few people have mentioned the post I made in an Am I Overreacting last year and asked what happened there. And it honestly was kind of crazy.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
We had a huge fight about this girl and he did end up putting more distance between them. After that, she started chasing after his brother and she's still engaged with no plans of breaking it off. He finally admitted that it's possible she was subtly flirting with him and when she realized he was never going to date her, she started to chase after his brother instead.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
That, in my opinion, is more disgusting and grimy than a stained tank top.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Making her plans. For anyone out there, I've plugged this quiz a few different times, but for anyone out there in a relationship and you just want to know if your relationship is in a good, healthy spot, there is a website called loveisrespect.org and they have a quiz on there to determine if your relationship is healthy or not. Oh mein Gott, das?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah, so if you feel that like your alarm bells might be ringing or like, hey, anyone that's in a relationship, you want to just ensure you are in a good healthy spot because we all can go like a little brain blind.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I can feel it. We're starting off easy.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay. Moving on to the next one here.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I have not read it. Okay, it was also one that was recommended from our Patreon family that they wanted to see you respond to.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I read the title and it intrigued me. So we're both going into this.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I know. For those that don't know what Freemasonry is, it's a fraternal organization for men who share a belief in supreme being and a desire to improve themselves and expand their social circles.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Hi there, long time reader, first time poster. The long and short is that for about six years now, my husband has been a Freemason and I've always supported him on this. My grandfather was a Freemason, so it's not really new to me or anything. And I don't believe in any of the conspiracy crap you find online. But I'm starting to think it may not be the best for him.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
My grandpa always used to say it went family, work, masonry. But in my husband's case, it's more masonry, masonry, masonry, then family, then work, then masonry again. Er besucht den Lodge fast jede Nacht. Für den Kontext, würde mein Großvater ein paar Mal im Monat gehen. Und noch nicht als Teil der Add-on, wie die Scottish Rite oder die Shriners oder so etwas.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So, this is coming from AITAH, four months old, titled, Am I the asshole for pretending to think beans in chili are woke to prank my cousin who is obsessed with being anti-woke and who loves chili?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ich weiß wirklich nicht, wie er die Stamina dafür hat, weil ich Teil eines Impro-Theater-Clubs bin und ehrlich gesagt, jede andere Woche ist genug. Sometimes he's gone for hours, other times an hour or even less. When I ask him what he's doing, he gets defensive and says he can't tell me because he has to maintain the secrecy.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I knew full well there'd be some lessons and ceremonies I wouldn't exactly be getting a front row seat for, but I don't think it's that unfair that I ask what he could be possibly doing that occupies him practically daily. Es gibt Scientologie.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I've even tried to get involved via the OES, something I've always wanted to be a part of, but he point blank shut it down and said that we can only look into that when he becomes a master mason, which is apparently still years away. And it's not even just our marriage that's affecting. Some weeks he's out so late with his lodge buddies, he doesn't take care of himself.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
There's been times he hasn't worn clean clothes or shaved and plenty of times he's gone into work without showering. Sometimes he doesn't even go into work and just calls in hours late to say he's been called for urgent lodge business. His boss is too good to him and lets it slide because he's genuinely blown away. My husband's in the Masons and thinks these meetings must be dead important.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
The pen gives you visibly whiter teeth in just one week and it fits right into your usual nighttime routine. Just apply the whitening serum after brushing and let it work its magic while you sleep. Get 15% off all Colgate Optic White products at shop.colgate.com with the code 2HOTTAKES. Always use as directed.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Like, I get a lot of these guys are going to be retired, but Jesus Christ, surely they have to know how it works. It's making a bad impression with people and I genuinely can't remember the last time we did a thing together as a couple. Plus, our bedroom has been dead for at least a year, which I've sort of put up with because I have a low libido, but I guess it's just another symptom.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Every time I ask him to do anything, he just tells me he's too tired. I guess, how do I get it across to him that his Masonic life needs to slow down? It's not even affecting just me, it's affecting our whole life, but I don't even know where to begin. I don't want him to leave the Masons, just maybe calm it down a little so we can have our lives back.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
How can I get this across to him without seeming that I'm jealous of the secrets or I want to worsen the wedge between us? By the way, I did actually email the WM of his lodge to just say I'm kind of worried for him, but I've not heard back yet. And if they're all this active, I'm not sure how much help they'll be. Thanks for any advice.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
My grandpa was. My grandpa was a mason. My dad, Jerry's dad.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And like there was none of this energy. Yeah.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I have really changed my tune somewhat recently, where I used to be I was definitely against hidden cameras and I still am, right? Like you shouldn't have hidden cameras in intimate places like recording people. But I used to be like, I think... I'd have to go back and watch the last 200 episodes.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
But I feel like I used to be more like, no, if you hire a private investigator, you're already doomed, which I do agree with that. But I think this is one of those where you need to hire a PI. You need to put some tabs on him. You need to put an air tag under the hood of his car. He's not being honest. He's preventing you from joining or gaining information about this organization.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Für sogar seine eigene Sicherheit. Du musst wissen, was er tut.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Top Comment on this one. Gag. 100%. I'd get a PI because he is likely going to lie to you. Okay. Okay, thank you. I'm so glad someone else is on the PI train.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I want to have a reason in my life, not Justin related, because I mentally can't handle that. But I really want to know what it's like to hire a PI.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah. People! Oh mein Gott. Ja, aber ich weiß nicht, die redden die Pitch. Die redden die Pitch.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I need to get my gun license first though, just in case things go south.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh my god, that's so cute. So cunty. I love the two-tone.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Brushed. Brushed antique. Yeah. Not chrome. Brushed.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ja. Anyways, for the past two or three years, my cousin has become obsessed with all this bullshit about what is or isn't woke and how woke things are, the end of the world. He's always been a good dude, so I don't know what his bag is, but he is completely obsessed. It's annoying.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
WM just emailed me, apologized for taking his time and explained my husband has not been a member of that lodge for at least five years. Having left just under a year after he joined. Apparently he had difficulties with the leadership and had been repeatedly cautioned for soliciting the other lodge members.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He told me he checked with other lodges in the area and none of them have any record of him switching. So it seems he demitted entirely.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He's in a cult. There's just something bad. Something's bad.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
That was tea. My brain didn't go there. I always go with fair first because it's easier.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Well, disheveled too. Usually if you're having an affair and you're sleeping with other people, you want to be clean or you shower after sex. So there is something to be said about the gambling thing, but the fact that the guy was like he was getting in trouble for soliciting other members gives he's in another cult.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Vielleicht hat dieser andere Kult Gambling und... Vielleicht ist es ein Sexkult.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So for the update, well, I apologize to the craft because masonry has nothing to do with my husband's antics. In my update to the post, I mentioned I'd spoken to the current worshipful master, basically the lodges chair. And he informed me my husband had demitted from that lodge years ago and never joined any others.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He did suggest it could be a Cladenstein Lodge and in a way I hoped that would be the case.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I don't know, we need some masons to chime in. But I think we both knew that it was highly unlikely. He also ended up putting me through to a past master who was a senior warden of the lodge around the time my husband quit. And apparently it was a jumped before he was pushed situation. I did mention that my husband was in trouble for soliciting his brothers, but the WM couldn't tell me anymore.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
The PM vaguely remembered it, and while it seems no one exactly was sure what he was soliciting them about, it was described as invasive and strange behavior. Me and the PM, David, might as well use names, had a good long chat before he offered to join me in discussing this with my husband, Kevin, with the hopes being we could get through to him and steer him off whatever course he was on.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I'm literally so stressed I'm gonna pee my pants.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
David came around on Monday and we talked a lot beforehand.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Kevin was out, of course. Most of our chat was just him being generally supportive. But he did start asking questions that were definitely leading into Kladenstein-Law-Drought. Though he dropped that as a theory when it was the lack of self-care being evident. Mitten in unserer Konversation kommt Kevin nach Hause. Und wenn er kommt, sage ich, dass ich jemanden möchte, den ich treffen möchte.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Und er fliegt einfach, weil er von Lodge müde ist. Und wir müssen es morgen machen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? I'm sorry, he poured himself a glass of milk? Out of all the beverages, right? We went through and sat down at the table too, so without a word he got up and went to the living room. So we followed him there, where David said we know that he's not attending Lodge because he was a senior warden when my husband left.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Kevin does this weird laugh and says, so it's a crime to move lodges then? David sagt, kein anderer Lodge in der Gegend hat ihn aufgenommen. Und Kevin geht ein bisschen rot, bevor er sagt, dass es weil er zu PHA gewechselt hat. Und dann insinuiert er, dass David rassistisch ist, weil er sich mit dem Problem befasst.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay, ich habe es verstanden. Es gab keine Vorstellung des Akronymes Prinz-Hall-Freemasonry. Es ist eine Branche, die für Afroamerikaner gegründet und geschaffen wurde.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oh no. Yeah, okay, good. Do not let him go to his car alone. Oh my god, what? Oh my god, what the fuck is in the black black? When we got back into the house, he got out this near lifelike latex horse mask and other leather and latex fetish gear. Full suit with harness and everything. If you were expecting anything to happen, there wasn't anything. We just kind of stared in total silence.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Eventually, Kevin restarted the conversation by explaining that he was into a BDSM fetish called pony play and that he went down the rabbit hole a long time ago.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I won't really go into full details, but long and short, he's clearly dealing with homosexual feelings and submissive desires for a long time. Even though he's still in denial about both of them and is adamant that he's not bi or gay, he's 100% straight. Obviously, he's at least and most probably bi, but he wouldn't hear it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
So the other weekend I was at his place and he was making his famous chili. So I got the idea for a little prank. I was like, quote, I'm surprised you still put beans in your chili. He was like, what? Why? I was like, beans and chili are so woke. Everyone is saying so. He was like, what do you mean? And he was genuinely concerned. As if this was something serious.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Anyways, he explained when he was really struggling with these feelings, the urge as he calls it, that's when he joined Freemasonry, because he hoped it would prove a distraction, help improve, etc. And then sort of implied being around old men would put him off guys. I could tell David was a bit offended, but he didn't say anything.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
But yeah, apparently this is what the soliciting was about. Obviously, joining the Masons didn't make these feelings go away. And he said he initially started trying to see if any of them felt those feelings too, but no one would buy it. Apparently, midway through he discovered the pony play rabbit hole on a BDSM website and was utterly hooked.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
That's when the soliciting went from, hey, I'm having these feelings towards guys, this is totally normal, right brother? To, hey, are you looking to buy a pony brother? He claimed he didn't leave because he was being disciplined, but because of how goddamn prudish everyone was. Oh mein Gott, und er sagt immer noch, dass er 100% recht ist?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Apparently he began with escorts, but eventually he graduated to pro-doms because too many of them found it weird or weren't into it enough. There's one main one he goes to the most, called Mistress Candy, but when she's busy, he'll go to other ones. And if that's not an option, he'll go find a cheap hotel to self-care or do it with an online mistress. There's a lot of them apparently.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And that's when he got into Findoms, where the whole thing is he gives out money for nothing in return. I don't really know how to describe how I felt when this all came out. The shock, the betrayal, the rage, the upset, the hurt. I suppose I feel quite numb now, but none of it could have prepared me for what he did next.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Wow. I'm just noticing. You have a little raise though.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
David sagte, so you've been having an affair and then using the craft as cover? Kevin got very angry and said he's not been having an affair. This sparked an argument. Again, won't go into details. Where Kevin's excuse was that at no point was he in control during this because Mistress Candy made use of hypnosis to control him.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And sometimes the urge was so powerful, it would M-shift him into sparkles. His pony persona... Involuntarily.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I don't know what to do with you right now.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He didn't use this as an example, but I guess it's kind of like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Again, no remorse or contrition, and he said we can still fix this with couples therapy, because I wasn't satisfying his needs. How did he come to that conclusion? Well, I never independently suggested pony play, and I didn't give him an avenue to open up about it. This is somehow my fault.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I won't go into the argument that followed, but it ended with me packing a bag and David taking me to my parents' place. I've told Kevin I'll be seeking a divorce, something which he's also in denial about, because the marriage is dead.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Clearly, he values his time playing dress-up as a horse more than he does me as a person. So I might as well let him focus on that. I'm staying with my parents right now and taking some time off of work until I can clear my head. Can't sleep, so I figured I might as well try to get this out of my system. It has helped, honestly.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I'm also currently no contact with Kevin and it'll be staying that way until I can serve him papers. Who knows what the future holds there, but he won't be in it. Though if you wanted some good news, I am finally joining the OES. David explained to me that I can join via my grandfather, so I'm going to a meeting with the secretary next week.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Thank you for being on this wild ride and helping me see reason. I guess I would probably have gotten here anyways when the WM messaged me, but it was nice to know I had people out there, on here, and especially those who talked through it with me in my DMs. You guys know who you are and you were awesome. Otherwise, have a great day and peace out.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I said something like, quote, yeah, beans and chili are woke. The original conservative Texans who made chili only used meat and chili. San Francisco liberals started adding beans to the chili in the 60s because so many hippies were vegetarian. Now all the woke scientists are saying beans are a better protein source than meat.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Keine Worte. Willst du sehen, wie einige dieser Masken aussehen?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I don't like that you can see the eyes.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
The human eyes so clearly through the mask.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Some of them have bits, horse bits that go into the mouth so that you can pull on the reins as you're riding.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It has a full horse face. You pull it on and it's a full horse face.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
And you just see eyes. And there's horse ears on top.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I'm not seeing a mouth hole. Like, granted, this is not... At least you gotta get out of the world.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
That's why it's really bad for them to colic. A.k.a. get a tummy ache. They can die.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
What just happened in the last 20 minutes? I don't know. The top comment on the update. So, I did think of fair after your first post. Can't say I saw sparkles, the pony coming though.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
As hurtful as this is, OP, divorce is much better for you. When you are finally broken clear of him, please ensure that you block him fully, as watching him destroy himself is going to be ugly. They quote what OP, that person, said. Can't say I saw Sparkles the pony coming. No, but Mistress Candy certainly did.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
That was really, really rough. We need something to end this. No, I think we can end it. Okay, well, we technically do have one more story. It will be going over to Patreon as our free story.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I've promised... Okay. Okay. Okay. Aber... Wir werden es erreichen.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Okay, but before we move over to Patreon, we are going to end this with a little bit of a palate cleanser, because God knows we need it, okay? So this is coming from True Off My Chest, posted eight hours ago, titled, I secretly learned sign language from my brother, but I pretend I don't know it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Like, I'm obsessed. There were no beans. It was a totally different chili. This guy has been making his chili with beans for like 15 years. I was like, what's up? Where's the beans? He was like, quote, I don't fuck with that woke shit. I was like, what? He was like, beans in chili are woke. Even you know that. Everyone else was like, what? Because... What?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
When I was 15, my younger brother, he was 10 at the time, started losing his hearing rapidly due to a genetic condition we didn't know ran in our family. Watching his world get quieter while the rest of us fumbled through half-hearted attempts to learn sign language broke my heart. Oh mein Gott, das ist so süß. For nearly a year I said nothing. I just wanted to be ready.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
One day I caught him signing to himself while reading. I instinctively responded. His eyes lit up. And I'll never forget the way he signed. You know it? I played it off like I had just picked up some things, but the truth is I'd spent hundreds of hours preparing for this moment. Now I communicate with him fluently, but I always pretend I'm not that good. I don't know why.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Maybe I'm afraid if I show how much effort I put in, it'll seem like I'm trying to make it about me, but it's not. It never was. I just wanted him to know someone cared enough to meet him where he was. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Oh my god. It's a good way to end this horrendous train wreck of an episode. Oh my god. That's so cute. It was really, really sweet.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ich dachte nur, dass es unabhängige Trauma war. Nein. Nein.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Oder so etwas. Ja. Echt wunderschöne Geschichte. Ich werde versuchen, uns nach...
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah, so now we're getting into the Jolly Rancher. So it will be free on Patreon. Head over there. Check it out if you're risky. But Chris, thank you so much for coming on. Where can everyone find you? Where can they listen to your new show?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Because I've listened to some of the stories you get.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
It'll be good. All of Chris's links will be in the description for the episode. Check it out. I'll be on an episode coming soon because I'm putting my foot in it. And other than that, head over to Patreon. Until next time, guys. Bye.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I was like, dude, I was just fucking with you. He got really angry. He dumped his chili in the sink and told everyone to go home. I thought he was pranking me back or something. But no, he was serious. The dude totally lost it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Here we go. We have not done this for quite some time, which feels very criminal.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He texted me later and said this exact thing. Quote, I researched this online and it turns out you really were lying to me. Beans are not woke. How could you do this? We went back and forth for a little bit. His position is even though we have historically pranked each other, I went too far, that I betrayed him, that I made him question his chili.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I tried to ask him if this at all made him think he cared too much about woke. Like what if beans in chili was woke? So what? He ignored that and demanded I apologize. Did I take this too far?
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
The fact we haven't recorded together in so long.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I feel like this is like very clearly a prank and it's not OP's fault that he's a little bit goofy in this I'm gonna be anti-woke culture. All it took was a quick Google search to tell you beans aren't woke.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Der Fakt, dass er seine Chili rausgebracht hat.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I mean, he's been making this chili for the past 15 years.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
He's at least 15. I was gonna say, like, at least 30.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Like, okay, Top Chef. Chopped. Chopped kids. Whatever you are. Yeah, chili is something you start dabbling in in your 20s. Okay.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I don't want any of that woke shit. It sounds so good. Right now Panera used to have the best vegetarian chili and you would get it in the sourdough bread bowl.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ja, ich bin hier seit einem Jahr in diesem neuen Studio.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Yeah, they've got all sorts of gluten-free breads.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
I'm actually surprised they haven't tapped into that yet.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
There's so many really good recipes for gluten-free bread bowls. They look incredible. Look at this. That looks like it has gluten in it. Look at that. Look at that crisp. Oh my god. Yeah. I think that 20 minutes ago I was eating a sweet green salad.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Top Comment on this chili post. That's fucking hilarious. He's so damn fixated on what other people say is woke or not woke that he'll sabotage his own cooking. He handed you that material to prank him on a silver platter and he needs to get over it.
Two Hot Takes
218: Chaos is Enough Closure.. Ft. Chris Klemens
Ich weiß, Leute, wenn ihr auf YouTube schaut, seid ihr bereits schreiend. Ihr seid so gespannt, weil es einer eurer Favoriten ist. Wir haben Chris Clemens mit uns heute. Hallo, alle.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Hello, everybody. I'm very tense now that we've started. And also you guys are getting the very first look at my new set. I mean, it took a very cropped-in version, but still, we've got to keep some mystery alive, guys.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Bitch, you baptized me in acid. What do you mean fire? I mean, I mean, that was I still like I don't remember this morning, but I remember that.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I don't know. I'm usually the one doing the topping, so I'm not into this.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
See, I blacked all of that out. Like that was like, that's recorded somewhere maybe. And if not, great. But I had a great time. Don't remember it. And I think, I don't know. I always have fun when I'm with you. Like you could ask me like, Chris, do you want to go take the Statue of Liberty for ransom? And I'd be like, sure, girl.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I have no idea how we're going to do that considering I barely could set up my podcast studio, but I'm down.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Girl, you picked that night to come home at 1am? Oh my god, you did it, bitch. You did it. I think you did it. Ugh.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
A-F-I-A-K? As fuck as it sounds, I don't know. Oh my god, I... Okay, so he had a seizure?
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh my God. That's the most exciting part of the story so far. I'm like, I learned a new acronym.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I mean, I think that's where you're like, hey, babe, you've been fucking weird this week since that happened. Do you think I killed him? Because that's the vibe I'm starting to catch.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Like, why... If you love someone, why would you think that your partner would kill your high school boyfriend over saying, like, we should get coffee? I mean, I feel like if that's how, like, insane your partner is, that, like, you think they're capable of that, there would have been other signs that would make you feel like, hey, red flag.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Like, if he's killed, like, a frog and then, like, played around with it, like, you know, Jeffrey Dahmer style, I would be like, Okay, yeah, I don't think he's off the suspect list. But, like, if he's just been kicking it this whole time, and, like, he was talking, like, yeah, I mean, I don't care if you go and get coffee.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Like, no, I don't think you fucking... I think you just say, like, hey, girl, what's going on?
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
My question, is she acting weird because she saw him again? And now that he's dead, she's realizing that maybe she had feelings for him? Listen, the brain is on today. Inspector Chris is in the office.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Every guy in these Reddit things are like, I don't know, like, should I talk to her? And I'm like, hey, men, this is what we've been saying pretty much the whole fucking time. Communicate.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, my God. What if the girl killed him? Maybe she... Oh, my God. Wait, no. Okay, sorry. I'm getting very ahead of myself. I'm, like, creating, like, the next big Paramount picture.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
They haven't even... So... Oh, my God. It's like their first year anniversary and there's a murder suspect in it. I'm crying.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
And he has the nerve to comment that but not give us an update. You know what, sir? I take back my advice. Go fuck yourself. You can go figure out how to handle this situation on your own. What's the point of coming on Beyonce's internet if you're not going to give us the fucking update? It's been 10 days.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
If you haven't communicated once in those 10 days, yeah, maybe you should just get a divorce. I hate him.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
You blue balled me. Oh, my God. You're the murderer in the library with the chandelier. Oh my God.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I thought there was like an update and I was like, there was one. Okay. Anyways.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
It's not funny. Just for the record. It's like not a funny situation. Just the delivery of these words. And he will not give an explanation. Like, so where did you go? Fully sat, seated, and kaput.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
This is so gaggy. This man just keeps digging his hole deeper and deeper.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh my God. Oh my God. If there is not an update for this, I just remembered the podcast I'm on. This is about to get crazy. I feel you just did an eyebrow raise. Oh, buckle up.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, Miss Mother, you better have attached the ring footage to the motherfucking Reddit.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Let me just say that a woman's instincts, I feel like are scientifically 99% accurate. Like that is just as effective as like Lysol or like Clorox or whatever the fuck. Oh my God. Give me the update. Like I don't even need to deliberate. Like I'm so fucking buckled in. I've got like an extra buckle on.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
But it's like, no, he did get caught. How does he think he's going to get out of it? By one, being an asshole. Two, he lied about laundry when... No, you didn't. The jig is up. Also, no offense. You would have to be in the basement for like three hours doing laundry. You would have to be like... What is that thing called that they use on Little House on the Prairie? Washboard.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
He would have to be fucking washboarding everything for that to make sense. I mean... Girl, just be like I was fucking some other bitch. Like, why won't men just realize? If you cheat, just say it. It makes it 3,000 times better than someone finding out themselves.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Doesn't a nine-month-old need to eat every four hours or some shit? Maybe not. I mean, that's what I have not.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
So like, well, well, like, yeah, he had to drive somewhere. So like, but for that, and he's gone for at least an hour. That's what I'm saying, at least. Okay, what's... I don't know why. She's like, should I ask for my neighbor's ring footage? I mean, the way that I would have fucking hacked their ring by now is like... Immediately, yes.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I mean, we would have gotten into the full fucking mainframe, the sideframe, the... I mean, it's just ridiculous. Oh my God, I'm so invested.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, okay. Like here's like a fun creative writing moment. What if he was going to kill the boyfriend who has epilepsy? You know, we've got like a cross Marvel DC world here.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I was thinking maybe the dad was like, I have to go to the grocery store to get you guys a snack. I'll be right back. But then the kid would have said, dad's at the grocery store getting us a snack.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I mean, like, this is how I know that Reddit and your podcast has totally fucked me hard because like I am jumping to like the most insane situations. But like, what if the person who responded and was like, my ex did that with my kids? What if it's the same guy?
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I don't know. I'm just like grasping for anything. Is there an update?
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, my God. Is there another update? I am just like a little greedy bitch today because I'm like, give me more.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, I thought you were going to be like four days ago. And I'm like, and it's hot off the press.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Before you give me the update, I don't understand why she didn't immediately... If someone was like, oh, someone's done this to me before and it was drugs with my kids, that neighbor with the ring camera, my God, I would be sucking and fucking them immediately to get that footage.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Yeah. Are you kidding? Oh, my God. She can be an informant to the neighbors. Just give the footage over gag anyways.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
That's the gag. If you're home, it's like, here bitch, here's a location. Enjoy.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
But there's no privacy. If you're at home, there's nothing to be private about.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
If I was sitting my fat ass at home and someone was like, I don't think you were home, I would be like, bet, bitch. Like, oh my God, I am on the edge of my literal seat.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh my God, let's go. This is like the fucking Super Bowl. Oh my God, is this how straight men feel when it's happening? Oh my God.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Who is she? Cleaver out of the kitchen and we're having steak tonight.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I mean... You got got, bitch. And, like, also, you saying, I ordered us breakfast from our favorite breakfast is another, like, translation of, bitch, I'm guilty.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
It's giving like, you just had a baby and I'm not the center of attention and it doesn't look like it used to down there. And he's looking for something.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
righter and tighter like that's all i'm getting but what i immediately went to hearing that update i'm like bitch let's zoom in on that video let's get the license plate also let's take a little trip to the little changing shed and see if there's any little condoms oh Oh, let's check the trash can. I mean, like, we're like, God bless this person. And I'm so sorry it happened to them.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
If you are listening. Oh, my God. If you're listening, I'm so sorry. But like, oh, my God, you are so naive. Like, check. I mean, I would be walking around with a magnifying glass in the backyard.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
That was crazy. That was crazy to be like, yeah, there is another woman coming in the side of our home, but I didn't fucking lie.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Dude, every day I am just more and more amazed by men. Like, I really am.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
With everything going on, too, I'm like, I just don't understand, like, cheating. Like, I just, I don't get it. Because we've seen it time and time again that nobody likes being cheated on and nobody loves having to do the detective work to find out that they were cheated on.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
So just fucking say it, bitch. The jig is up. I mean, the fucking car is in the driveway. Look. Come on. We know her hair color. We know what box dye shade it is. I mean, what... We're really gonna... Well, I was home.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Clearly, but like... God, what a fucking moron. If you're going to do that and fuck around in the pool area. Hey, yeah, I was cleaning the pool. Oh, I was doing maintenance on the pool. If you're going to fucking cheat, at least be good at it. I mean, God. It's insane. It's so stupid. And no wonder they don't have a ring camera so he can go get his dick wet on a fucking Monday night. Ah!
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Like, no wonder he's like, nah, babe, we don't need a ring camera. The government's going to be watching us. And then he's like the fucking idiot that votes for Trump anyways. I'm so angry at this story. I'm like, what an idiot.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Have the neighbor's camera rolling. Get a log into the ring app.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I have like a better idea. That's like, so like Carmen Sandiego of me. Okay. I think she should put like an ink or something on the padlock that locks the pool. That's like, you just cannot wash off. You know how like you get like a Sharpie on your finger and it's like there for a couple of days.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I'm, like, I've become a lunatic on this podcast. Like, I fully become, like, a tinfoil flat earther. I'm, like, here we go. Oh, my God.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, it doesn't matter if he grabbed your arm. Like, oh my God, that is an indication of what her relationship is like, that she's downplaying. Like, no, it wasn't like physical abuse. He just grabbed my arm because he knew that he fucking cheated on me.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
If anybody is putting hands on you to be controlling, red flag. Red flag. Not good.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Not to be grim, but this husband is like shifty. He's pushing 50 and he is shifty.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I don't even think the screw is loose. I think someone at the factory forgot to put it in.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I feel great. There was no coconuts involved, so I am just thriving. I feel like I watched a back-to-back action movie. Wow. Man.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
I was expecting to be put through the ringer in the coconut story kind of way. This was enthralling.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
You're just going to save it for when we're on tour or when I'm there in person. Great.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, my God. I'm going to cry. Bitch, what the fuck? I'm like, no, no, no. That was not part of the deal. You complimenting me.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
You can find me. You can just Google Chris Clemons, baby, and the rest. Well, maybe actually don't do that. I think my ass cheeks come up on Google. Oops. I mean, like, I put them up there, but, like, you know, it's not great. You can find me on the internet, Chris Clemons. God, I'm just everywhere. You're safe. There is nothing I hate more than, like, having to plug myself.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, great. Just Google Chris Clemons. I'm on YouTube, TikTok, podcast coming soon.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
Oh, that one's okay though. I mean, it's not great, but yeah. Okay. Thank you so much for having me. I literally love coming on this podcast. This feels like my home away from home. And I just now I'm going to jerk you off a little. Like you two are the most... like genuine, kind, caring, like every positive adjective I could think of.
Two Hot Takes
206: Chaos as Usual..
You are that like you really do just care about the people around you and making everyone feel good and seen. And you are just that brain of yours is so goddamn big.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Oh yeah, or like when you're little and you're sleeping over at your friend's house, you will find anywhere to sleep.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
You'll find anything to keep you warm. Yeah. You make it work.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, just tell them it's fun. They'll think it is. Exactly. Ugh. Just tell them this is such a fun, exciting place for them to sleep.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, this is the biggest room in the house.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
And it was the aunt's mistake. Exactly.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Definitely not. I'm too generous with my time and my resources.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Das ist ziemlich spezifisch. Ich wollte nur sagen, vielleicht. Ich war so bereit, dass du gesagt hast, wenn du diese Frage angefangen hast. Aber dann hast du es über Blackout-Kartoffeln gesagt.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich mag Blackout-Kartoffeln, aber dann wache ich nicht auf.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
You're both telling me you don't... It just means when we travel together, you can get through with the blackout curtains.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Nein, ich würde lieber... Ich denke, die Industrie der Revolution hat viele schlechte Sachen gemacht. Aber Alarm ist einer der schlechtesten. Klöckchen und Alarm sind einer der schlechtesten. Du musst einen besseren Alarmsound finden. Nein, ich muss nicht auf einen Alarm wachen. Du würdest lieber aufgewacht werden.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Und wenn ich weiß, dass ich um 8 Uhr wachen muss, wird mein Körper um 7.58 Uhr wachen.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
It could be any lovely sound in the world, but if I'm associating it with this wakes me up, it will become the worst sound in the world.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, get her in your Airbnb. I think that's actually a great idea.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I feel like because she planned the trip, she should be more... likely to let someone else have the room.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I feel like it should be the opposite.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I mean, yeah, them offering to still pay the same thing is... Das sollte nicht passieren.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
The aunt sucks, though. Aunt's a fuck person. You think? Do you think it was malicious?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But also like getting mad for them like not wanting to stay there is weird too.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich habe ein Shirt. Ich habe ein Souvenirs-Shirt. Ich liebe London. Ich höre, du liebst London. Ich hoffte, dass Morgan auch eines tragen würde und wir zusammen kämpfen würden. Aber das ist nicht passiert. Und das ist okay. Ich bin hier alleine.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Michaela? Yes. You have some stories out here. Am I up? Am I up to the plate? You might be. Guys, I'm so nervous. I've collected some stories today. And will they be okay? I don't know.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Was I supposed to collect stories? Yeah, you're up next. Yeah, you're the next one. But I'll go first. No, I'm just kidding. Oh my god, I felt like I was in high school all over again.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Okay, anyways, let's hear these. You guys, this is from r slash relationship advice. It's also a little vintage. It's a year old. And the title is my 33 female BFF 32 female ditched me on a vacation. We spent years planning after her boyfriend 30 male proposed on the first night of our vacation. Verdammt! It was kind of split 50-50, since this was supposed to be almost a two-month trip.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I personally have been saving for years now. One thing to note is that Anne is fluent in the primary language of where we are vacationing, while I am not. I can talk to some city people enough to get by, but once I leave and the slang and dialect start popping in, I'm lost. It was just supposed to be me and Anne.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
However, a last-minute addition was made with her including her current boyfriend of three years. This was more or less dropped on me pretty much two weeks before we left. Ich war wirklich unglücklich mit dem, weil, naja, es hat viele Pläne verpasst. Aber ich habe ihn begrüßt, nachdem wir ein paar Dinge wiedergearbeitet haben.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Jedoch habe ich Anne mehrere Male und ihren Freund gesagt, dass diese Reise über uns geht, nicht Anne und ihren Freund. Die erste Nacht, als wir da waren, hat Mark zu einem Knie geschlagen, den Ring rausgezogen und sie gefragt, ihn zu heiraten. Since then, I feel like a third wheel who is no longer welcome on this trip. This has changed everything.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
The trip is now basically about Anne and her new fiancé. Multiple times we had a lot of plans, including some stuff that was already paid for. And instead, she ended up ditching me to go spend time with Mark. Sie sagte, es sei gut, aber es sei wirklich nicht komfortabel. I tried to talk to her and she got really upset and told me this vacation isn't just about me. And that hurt a lot.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Now pretty much I'm going to be spending Christmas alone in a country where I don't speak the language. I got pretty emotional and asked her, WTF am I expected to do? She got really defensive and said it's just a week and we're here until early February. She'll meet up with me on New Year's, New Year's Eve or the day after.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
My question is, how can I talk to her and make her understand that she can't just ditch me without coming off like a major asshole?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
And having to go stay with that friend's family, being like, hey, how y'all doing? Not even hey, how y'all doing?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, the first comment is, friendship is dead, my friend. I would accept that you need to rework the trip for yourself and take as a solo trip. She doesn't care for you or your safety and comfort. It sucks, but how much are you supposed to take? Spend the extra money to be safe and hopefully she doesn't owe you any money.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
If you owe her money, I would keep track of your extra expenses and then let her know you're taking it from the money you owe her. Please update me and I hope your trip turns out wonderful.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
And she wouldn't have even chosen that area to begin with. It was for the friend. So now it's like, I was only going there for you anyway.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Spite has fueled me many years of my life.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Her saying like this isn't all about you.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich würde ein TikTok darüber machen, hoffe, dass die GoFundMe das großartig macht und dann einen anderen Freund mit mir kommen oder so. Oh mein Gott. Ja. Ja. I like that. Don't you think, if you saw a TikTok of someone going through this, you'd be like, I'm sending them 20 bucks. Oh my god, I absolutely would.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, I went to Portugal for a week by myself and I did enjoy it, but I was like, I could see why this would get lonely. Two months is a lot. Yeah, longer than this, I think I would get like friends sick. Like I'd miss having my friends to hang out with. Yeah. But it is fun for like a time.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah. Aber ich bin auch zu dem Ort gegangen, wo ich als Solo-Traveler gehen wollte. Ich habe es geplant, weil ich alleine sein würde und habe mir angeschaut, was andere Leute alleine machen würden.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich gebe dir so viel Kredit dafür. Das ist unglaublich. Es ist ein bisschen stressig, sich um dich herum zu reisen.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Es gab einen Train-Strike die Woche, als ich da war, den ich nicht wusste, bis ich da war. Es gab ein paar Tage, als ich auf den Train ging, und er kam nicht. Aber alles funktioniert. Ja.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
So the name of their Reddit account is like throwaway and they're not like responding to any of the comments on the thing.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah. That's their only post ever. throwra-travel They just made it to the event.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
How to pull it out and bite it with no context is crazy.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Maybe he did the best he could, but also I could see being like, oh, you didn't plan anything. No part of this was like... I don't know. Like, as far as you got is just that we, like, went there.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But you have to push a little bit, I feel, in that situation. If you're the only one who knows that that's why you want to do something a little more special. Yes. She can be like, oh, I don't want to leave the hotel, I'm tired. And then you have to be like, no, we really should go, it's beautiful, you know?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Und das ist es, was diese Frau auch gemacht hat. Ja, ich fühle mich sehr unterqualifiziert, eine Meinung darüber zu geben, weil ich nicht mal emotional verstehen kann, dass ich mit jemandem verabschiedet bin. Nein, absolut nicht. Und was mit dem kommt. Ja.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Isn't it also nice, though, when you, like, make that life-changing decision to be like, wow, and, like, he did it in such a special way and he knows me so well and, like, it was such a magical moment and he really thought through, like,
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
how it would feel for me and like you know xyz like there's also I can understand it's not just like totally materialistic to wish for like there'd be flowers or like written on the sand something or like something more of a romantic but it's not like it was lacking romance like there was sentiment behind it and like
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But if you always go on hikes with someone and then they just, like, propose to you on a trail one day, is it, like, really that special? Sorry, never mind. I don't know.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But if that's their thing.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
He's not an asshole at all. And I think he's a nice guy and doing the best that he could. And it sucks that this happened this way.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Do you think she might already just be a little unsure about him? And like that's what's at play here? Oh.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I'm so curious. I kind of agree with the comment. I think it's dramatic. I think the comment words it very dramatically. It doesn't need to be all that. If you've ever had a family member get something for you, but it's something you're allergic to. It's like this feeling of like, oh yeah, technically you were doing something that you thought would be nice for me, but you don't know me.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
You've forgotten things that I've told you. I know we're doing assuming by saying that. But it's like to feel not known in that person's thinking that they're just doing something so great for you is like... Or like I've told you so many times, I hate that flavor of crackers and you got me that flavor of crackers.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
It's like you think you're doing a nice thing, but it's actually like more hurtful than doing nothing.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich weiß. Es ist schwierig, weil wir nicht wissen, was die beiden haben. Wir wissen nicht, welche Gespräche sie hatten.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich hoffe, dass sie erklären, wie viel sie gesprochen haben. Er hätte es klar gemacht. Er hätte gesagt, dass er keine Ahnung hatte, dass sie einen besonderen Vorschlag hatten.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I also thought about the nervous in crowds comment and like that being his choice. And it's like, you know, she gets nervous in crowds and like that she doesn't feel super comfortable in that environment already.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ja. Ja. Und einfach sie zu lassen, dass sie sich fühlt, nein, ich kenne dich. Ich kenne, was du wirklich genießen würdest. Ich kann dir das perfekte Vorschlag geben. Natürlich will sie ihn heiraten. Sie hat gesagt, ja. Sie hatte einen Moment darüber. Aber sie ist zurückgekommen. Ich denke, sie können es wiederholen. Es wäre süß und es wäre lustig. Ja. In der Hintergrundsicht.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Give us the whole speech and then we can figure out if it's nice enough. I would just love to get an update from this that's like, we redid it, we're so happy, we're in love. It was an emotional day, but we're better for it.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But that's their thing. But clearly it's not for her.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But it's not like special. It's like, I don't know, what do you do every day? You need to up the A&T a little bit.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah. I also think we can just if even if they haven't said it, assume people want their proposal to be special. Yeah. Like even more like do as special as you can even think of.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
If it was the same thing and flowers had been spread in the area that he did it, and there had been something there, I think that would have been enough.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
So awesome. I want to be on a hike in Monterey.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, apparently that's what I'm getting. Actually, you would love to be on a hike in Monterey.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Oh, for marketing. You're like, okay, so when you're on a marketing call, you're like, put me in a balloon.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Okay, moving along. You got another one down there? Should I bring one out? This is like a shorter one. Okay, guys, so this one is also coming from r slash relationship advice. It is one day away from being a year old. Oh! And the title is... Wait, so it says 364? Yeah, three to 64 days. Oh my god. I've never seen that. I know, I thought it was kind of special.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Okay, my husband, 29 male, is upset that I, 28 female, bought a bigger fake ring for our upcoming vacation. What should I do? I love this topic. Ring size is a heated debate.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
We're about to go out of the country for a vacation. My real engagement ring is insured. However, I don't wear it to swim per our jeweler's recommendation. My husband and I are in agreement about me not wearing my real ring while we're at the pool at the resort. Oh no. Plus, I would be wearing my real ring the rest of the time, to dinner, etc. Again, I just don't see the big deal.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I'm taken aback by his strong reaction and he snapped at me and is now refusing to talk to me. I feel like my only option is to return the ring and buy one identical same size and shape as my real ring. Am I overlooking how he feels? Should I just buy a fake identical ring?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
My husband, yeah. Does it say how long they've been married? I feel like it seems like they've been more recently married. That's just the vibe I'm getting. If you're married, that's even worse to be like.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Wenn Leute einen falschen Ring bekommen, bekommen sie meistens einen identischen? Weil ich glaube, mein Gedächtnis ist, wie schwer es wäre, immer einen identischen Ring zu haben, einen echten Ring. Meine Freunde... Die Leute haben wahrscheinlich immer einen etwas anderen Ring. Ja, aber ich weiß nicht.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, the one thing she says where I can see like that side is her being like, I thought this would be a fun opportunity to order a bigger ring in a different shape. Like that does kind of make it seem like she might like this other ring more or like maybe her attitude about it of like being so excited. I could see why that could kind of bother him.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But at the end of the day, I'm just like, I don't know. I just don't think it is that deep. But again, I'm not like someone who...
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
No, I do think that that's exactly what her mindset was.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich versuche, mich in den Kopfraum zu stellen, wie ein Ring so besonders ist und so viel repräsentiert. Und dann ist es so, würde es etwas bedeuten, wenn ich einen größeren als eine falsche Version habe? Ich weiß es nicht. Ich weiß es nicht. Meine Reaktion ist nein.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Do we have... Well, I was going to read the top comment first. The top comment says, does he just think you're not impressed with your ring and is trying to mask his hurt feelings by acting angry?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I don't really understand why you need to wear a fake ring at all, but it makes sense you don't want to lose your ring. So they kind of just answered why she needs to do it in that question.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
It's very easy to understand why someone would want to wear a fake engagement ring.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Heckled. Heckled. Heckled. That as well.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
So we don't have any responses from the OP. Are you kidding me? But a jeweler weighed in. Let's go. The jeweler said, I am a jeweler. That's how I knew. That tipped me off. I've seen so many arguments over stone size. LOL. OP, this is ego. His feelings are hurt and he's not able to interpret that on his own. So it comes out as anger.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Also, er zeigt Angst, anstatt dass du nicht einen größeren Ring gekauft hast, um seine Gefühle zu verhindern oder einen Fehler in dem Ring, den er gekauft hat, zu bemerken. Es ist nicht ein Schub an seinem Einkommen oder Geschmack, es ist nur ein dummes Stück Spiel-Jewelry. Und das ist erlaubt. Du bist erlaubt, einen lustigen Ring zu tragen. Ich habe auch ein paar, speziell für Reisen.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Aber manchmal trage ich sie nur, weil es Spaß macht. Und sparklig. Wer kümmert sich? Habe einen Sit-Down mit deinem Mann. Gib ihm einen sauberen Raum, um seine Gefühle auszulösen. Kein Beurteilung. Er ist erlaubt, seine Gefühle zu haben. Und er kann herausfinden, warum er so eine negativen Reaktion zu etwas hat, was nichts für dich bedeutet.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Aber nur weil es nicht sentimentell für dich ist und dein echter Ring ist, bedeutet das nicht, dass er es kennt oder es der gleiche Art sieht. Wenn du in seinen Augen ein großes Problem gemacht hast, wie nett dein Fake ist, könnte er schmerzen, dass du Regret über den echten hast.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Du brauchst Verwahrung, dass du investiert bist, aber du bist vollständig bereit, vorhanden zu sein, während du auch glückliche, temporäre Dinge genießt. Dass du weißt, dass der Ring, der zwischen euch zwei ist, speziell ist und genau das, was du wolltest. Ja.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Das ist wie, ich bin fasziniert. Ich bin literally, ich bin einfach wie, dieser Mann schlägt.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
You're pointing out so many flaws today. I know. I told you. I told you.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
She's wasted. She's so wasted right now.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Wait, they must get diseases or something. You would wish, I know. Like some kind of rash.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I don't know. There's no update on this one? No, I'm so sorry. I can't believe.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I know. And I didn't even tell you beforehand.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I mean, I feel like that might be a lot of the time why people don't give updates, if things have gotten really emotional. I don't know. This doesn't seem relationship ending. He just needs to speak.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Oh, if he handles every disagreement like this.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
The past part? That sounds really good. It sounds very special and unique. Okay, thank God.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
No, I do. I do think they all sound great.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
No. That's like cartoonishly evil. This is biblical greed and biblical evil.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Why aren't their moms staying home?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Ich bin so, was ist da los? Ich fühle mich auch, dass es ein bisschen symbolisch ist, dass es eine Familienabend ist und sie versuchen, sie rauszuholen. Es ist mehr gedauert, um sie von diesem Art von Reisen zu entfernen, weil sie sie klar nicht wollen, auf der Familienabend.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
They're like, she's not finding it. We hid it really well.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Morgan stirring the pot and I'm smoking it. She probably planned it. Oh my god. The evil runs deep. Where did they learn that shit from?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Und wenn jemand so etwas zu ihnen gemacht hätte, würde ich sie wahrscheinlich... Ja, mein Vater war ein Debutant, also... Das ist unfreundlich.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Was zur Hölle? Es sollte nur die Episode von Edging genannt werden.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
There's a lot. Wait, are both of them single? Are they both single mothers?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I wonder why. I didn't like put that together until now.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
What a cliffhanger to leave us on. I'm beginning to consider some things and then never returns again to leave another comment.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Trip. I don't know what title that could be. Trip to the edge of the center.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Trip to the edge. It kind of is. On the edge. Because it's like a double entendre. What the fuck is that?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
We were just a little lost, but then you found us.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Was ist eine Doppelentendre, bevor wir losgehen? Oh, es hat zwei Bedeutungen. Also es ist auf der Ecke, aber dann auch auf der Ecke. Ich mag das. Okay. Trip to the Edge.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I love that you came at it with such confidence.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Just google me, Michaela Oakland.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Oh my God, you started it.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
There was another episode, everybody like... Da war nichts, war es nicht?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I don't know what kind of power they're thinking. Like, you can stop the boat.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Wie ist es deinem Kind schuld, dass du deinen eigenen Port-Zeit verpasst hast?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Du weißt, was der Pot ist und du nennst die Inhalte, was es ist.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Hey, I fuck with cruises. I know it's like a floating petri dish.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But if you go with the right group of people, I think a cruise could be something so fantastic. You don't have to repack every time you go to a new location. All the food is included. You have a whole room full of stuff, but you're going to all these different countries. I don't know. I think it can be... I get it.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Delta has cruises. That's all you had to say. They've been emailing me about this giveaway I've been trying to enter every day.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Yeah, I think a lot of people, though, don't fuck with cruises. And I think, like, they recently just laid off a lot of people. There was some kind of article that came out recently about cruises not having as much staff as they used to. And there are already so many things that happen on cruise ships, I feel.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
But that wouldn't happen to us, because that's not, like, you know, what we put into the universe. I don't think it happens.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
I was like, what? Like, are we missing?
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
Planen warten auch nicht auf Leute. Ich weiß nicht, warum sie dachten, dass jemand für sie warten würde, auch wenn sie nicht gewohnt sind, auf Kursen zu fahren.
Two Hot Takes
219: Trip to the Edge.. Ft. Chris Klemens & Michaela Okland
They were just so awful in person and then I texted one of my friends about it and they were like, oh yeah, he got cancelled this year. For also being a pedophile. What? Many such cases...
Watch What Crappens
#2714 Southern Hospitality S03E05: A Hot Dog Will Holler
I agree with that. When you guys said that earlier, I was like, no, they wouldn't.
Watch What Crappens
#2714 Southern Hospitality S03E05: A Hot Dog Will Holler
Can we go back to the Mavericks real fast? Do you think Jason Kidd tried to get out of that press conference where he's just like, you don't need me up there, right? You're good. Right. And he's like, no, no, I think we should be aligned. He's just like, oh, oh, all right. I'll go up there with you. I definitely want to be up there.
Watch What Crappens
#2714 Southern Hospitality S03E05: A Hot Dog Will Holler
And I have confirmed Butler Cabin has a fireplace directly in the center.
Watch What Crappens
#2714 Southern Hospitality S03E05: A Hot Dog Will Holler
I was about to say, ridiculousness would like a word in this conversation of most re-airable shows ever.
Watch What Crappens
#2714 Southern Hospitality S03E05: A Hot Dog Will Holler
Do you think Jane Smith was looking at, like, come on, Kanye? I put a house on my head. I can't get any of the headlines, Kanye.
Watch What Crappens
#2714 Southern Hospitality S03E05: A Hot Dog Will Holler
In your defense, though, Juju's so stylish, it's not crazy for him to show up in a suit.
Watch What Crappens
#2681 RHONY S15E013: The Photos and the Furious
Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens?
Watch What Crappens
#2681 RHONY S15E013: The Photos and the Furious
Commercials. Here comes one right now.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
I don't know. Maybe not. I don't know.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
I don't know what it is, actually. I can't really think of one.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
Yeah, this is the Bill Nye episode. All right.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
Like this house here? Yeah. What would yours be?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
I can do them better, though. What you do to get me, Mott? Mott. What you do to get me, Mott?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
I miss Mott. How about me dabbing up Mott's this morning?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
Lauren's going to get all turned on.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
I'm a traditional barber and here are my haircuts.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
am i have asshole am i the language that the jewish barber jewish uh dj speaks all right am i have asshole is there a lighting am i have asshole where's the rabbi who's getting married what is my name what is a rabbi what is my name that was step one i thought step one where is the rabbi step one step one dress the rap step one make sure the rabbi is in the building kiss the rabbi bum
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
Step on. Where is Jesus? Dude, Jesus is nuts. I gotta do some crazy shit. I'll tell you about it.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
My dad, brother, and I love the way it cups our balls. Okay, we do Feliz Navi Mom.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
Feliz Navi Mom. Feliz Navi Mom. Feliz Navi Mom. I love that. I want to wish her a Merry Christmas. I want to wish her a Merry Christmas. I want to wish her a Merry Christmas from the bottom of my heart.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
the christmas kiss heard round the world
I got rabies. You got something on those lips, dude. Really?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
i was a half major i was a half major i i was a private i am a minor i i don't think i declared my major until well you couldn't declare it until sophomore year but i don't think i declared mine until like junior year interesting
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
I think this whole business thing is kind of an interesting major where there was just legitimate common sense.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
Oh, did you see people are saying that we have to name Lauren's bunny? What's her bunny?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
When I was a kid, there was this group of brothers that had a really hot mom. And they would... Sorry. A black family? No.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
No. When we were kids, they were like, there's a tornado coming.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
Martin Short age. Jeez, Martin, you look great. Show me Joe Alt number.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
How old was he? I thought you were joking. No. How old was he?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
Your friend opens the cooler and there are 30 tweets for the 10 of you to share. How awesome is that? That's awesome.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
I live in an apartment with my friend Ty. What are you having? I have a bed and- Where's the bed? The bed is in my room.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
rusty barrel rolled a plane
I spent like an hour doing these and I'm so excited about this and Will just made them all about poop.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich meine, der seltsame-sehende Teil hilft nicht, aber er ist auch trank, er kann nicht fahren. Und dann speeden sie auf in diesem 500.000-Dollar-Kerl, während der andere Kerl ist wie in einer Szene in einem Film, auf seinen Knie auf dem Pavement, wie, nein. The guy, she gets saved from this, and then the McLaren just jackknifes.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, I mean, I was like, oh my god, he's gonna die, but he literally just sped off. And honestly, I don't understand why she needed... You gotta let me finish the story. So he speeds off, and I was like, oh my god, holy shit. And I was like, Jesus, that guy should not be driving, he's definitely drunk. And the guy next to me goes like, ah, he'll do a bump and he'll be fine. And I was like, what?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Unless people show up for the championship. I mean, you could also come in the dugout and hang out with everyone. I know, but then that implies that I might have to go play. No, you can't play. Oh, okay, great.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And he was like, you don't know who that is? I was like, no, who's that? He goes... That's Woody Harrelson's brother. I was like, what? So again, that's Brett Harrelson. He does this all the time. So apparently, does she know who he was? Yeah, that's what I think happened. She was with the other guy and then somehow got pulled away by Woody Harrelson's brother. Wait, go to the, that's it.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Go four pictures over. I think he has Coke on his face in that picture. No, one of her. Ich weiß nicht, das ist nur ein... Das ist ein Wassermark. Nein, er hat das Wassermark, wenn ich ihn gesehen habe. Er sah wirklich alt aus. Er sah nicht so gut aus, wie er sich in diesen Fotos anschaut. Aber... Oh, er ist Bill Clinton, das ist ein guter Zeichen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, aber anyway, ich dachte, das war alles Zeit für... Und es waren diese türkischen Jungs neben mir. Und sie waren so, wow, eine Nacht in L.A. und wir sehen einen großen Star mit einem großen Auto. Und ich war so, Bro, Woody Harrelson's Bruder hat das kind of pole? Warte, hier ist meine Frage. Mein Bruder arbeitet bei fucking Accenture. Er ist sein Senior Manager. Warum kann ich das nicht machen?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
You didn't hang out in the dugout? Okay, I'll do that. He was a good locker room presence, honestly.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Du warst da. Du warst auf dem selben Tisch. Du warst auf dem selben Tisch.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, I sat... She was being mean to me? Yeah, she called you a poopy butt. Oh, what?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Speaking of Gavin. He did smoke a joint. In the locker room?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, I don't think... Another thing that happened at Jameson's, this is an Emily Binder dig. We work with Taylor Swift now. Yeah, Will thinks that there's a... Which is true, there's a greater than zero chance Will gets to meet his hero now, because Accelerator sponsored their pod, and they also sponsored Travis Kelsey's pod. We are now part of the Accelerator podcast family.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Anyone that can just smoke a whole joint and go on with their day is a whole different... No, I know. I went to a football game in BC's Bowl game. We played in Yankee Stadium and I went. Und mein Freund kam. Und nach dem Spiel waren wir auf der Reihe, um in die Bar zu gehen. Und da kam ein Typ, der Pre-Rolls verkauft hat. Und er hat einen gekauft. Und er war so, ich werde das trinken.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Which is only three podcasts. One is Playdate, and one is New Heights with Travis Kelsey, who is dating Taylor Swift.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I was in the bar, I was caught in a rug, like I always do, danced my face off. Always sounds like farting to me, but yes. Caught in a rug? Cutting a rug. Me and Jacob Eason were dancing our faces off and he's awesome.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
He's the best. He's a real touchdown of a guy. Und Emily Binder, ich musste meine Schuhe anziehen oder so, ich habe ihr mein Bier für weniger als fünf Sekunden gegeben. Es war so, hier, ich muss etwas machen, ich bin zurück. Ich habe es ihr gegeben, sie drückt es sofort. Ich habe sie gesehen, sie hat ihre Hand geöffnet. Binder ist geblasen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es schattert auf dem Boden, sie sagt, oh, ich werde dir noch einen geben. Und dann hat sie einfach die Bar verlassen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
finder blast i got blasted you got blasted dude one time my roommate's girlfriend in college made our pasta without asking us and i was like okay that's a little weird whatever let it slide sits down immediately knocks it over and just spills it all over the floor of our living room and then like her boyfriend had been in his room and he walks out to the living room before he can enter the living room she goes hey actually i want to go to your room
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Er sagt, ja, und geht mit ihm raus. Wir waren alle da und sie hat die Pfanne und die Pasta auf unserem Boden gelegt. Pasta. Ich weiß nicht, ob das mehr griechisch ist, diese Bewegung oder die Präsentation von Pasta.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich innoviere. Pasta. Warte, also hast du, wart ihr alle so, wow, nein, du musst, ich war ehrlich gesagt, wie ein Haar auf dem Boden. Es gibt keinen Weg, dass sie weggeht, ohne diese Pasta zu reinigen. Ich weiß nicht, ich glaube, das ist, wie ich es jetzt sage. Sie klingt großartig. Ich bin hungrig. Ihr solltet ihr mit ihr weiterhelfen. Sie war eine schöne Person.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
This podcast is brought to you by Triple. Triple is the original high seltzer with 3 mg of THC and just 15-20 calories. Triple offers a social buzz similar to that of your favorite hard seltzer. Light on calories, high on life. It's all natural, gluten free and again just 15-20 calories. Guys, I'm going to talk about this past Saturday. I mentioned it organically on the podcast.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I don't know if it's going to be before or after this ad spot. It might be a spoiler if not, but I had a little darts tournament that only I was invited to on Saturday. Bis zum nächsten Mal. It's pretty awesome in every facet, except for some reason all of our subjects are just awful at darts.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und ich war so, das ist verrückt. Und dann kommt er in die Bar und sagt, okay, ich gehe raus. Und du kannst sehen, wie er panikiert. Er versucht, derjenige zu sein, der einen Joint trinkt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Well, no, but the password, they would have to still be near your... I just mean the number 71, isn't it? Because of... They'd also still have to be near your laptop. Or my bank. Right.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Don't go near Bangalore Savings. Socko Bitterford Savings Institution. Afghani Mall. The most obsolete bank in the history of the world.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wow. Afghani. Yeah, no. E-V-G-E-N-I. What? How do you not know how to spell Evgeny? I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Evgeny? No, E-V-G-E-N-I. Oh. Lovely man. He's like, oh, I'm Penguin. Oh, I love Putin. That's probably what he says. Russia is my life. I need that hat.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und der Typ war so, nein, nein, nein, nein, nein, wir müssen dieses Gebiet entfernen. Karaoke passiert. Und wir sind alle seit Jahren in dieser Bar gegangen. Und wir waren so, oh, ich wusste nicht, dass ihr Karaoke macht. Sie waren so, ja, wir machen es jetzt. Okay, cool. Und so setzt der DJ auf. Es dauert so eine Weile. Die Liste von Leuten, die Songs singen wollen, wird aufgelöst.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es war großartig. Nach der ersten, warst du so, was zur Hölle? Warst du gut? Ja. Nach der zweiten, warst du so, ich mag das nicht.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
That's what we were saying. He made it his own concert. I wanted to do that. That's my dream. We could do that here. Maybe I do karaoke Tuesdays.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No. That... I don't know if we can keep this in. That girl loves Will. Who doesn't? A lot of girls love Will.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Because you were scared or something? I don't know. They both clicked X. It's not important why. I think it had a bunch of... It? No, her profile. I think it had a bunch of really, really fucked up shit in all the captions. About healthcare. Hinge is trying to tell them that they're both...
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I didn't know it was her. She was just like... My buddy was visiting and went to high school with her, I guess. We just went and got subs. And then the next day, Rossi texted me. He was like, dude, you nailed it with that girl. And I was like, oh, I literally... I mean, she was cute, I just like, it wasn't like... But didn't you do karaoke? I think that's always the deal.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I did karaoke just on my own. I paid the guy to skip the line. I actually had a... No, no, no, I didn't mean with her, I meant like, that's always the deal.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
There were several women with their pants off when I walked off the stage. A couple panty-sized holes in the floor. Yeah, there was a... Yeah, I mean, listen, man, I don't know what to say. I'm flattered.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
He reeks. Oh, I thought you said he was Greek. He Greek. He Greek. He's the last person on the plane. He Greek. He Greek. He drinkin' olive oil and feta cheese. Okay, sorry.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Er springt auf die Tür, wenn wir losgehen, um sicherzustellen, dass wir noch nicht wegfliegen, aber wir hatten den Wartezeit. Meine Mutter, hast du das erinnert? Warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte, warte.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Did you see that guy who missed his flight and he grabbed the intercom? He was like, y'all need to get up here. We got some people up here trying to get up on the plane. And the plane was gone. It didn't matter. Do you remember that day that Microsoft was down? All the planes were fucked. The Atlanta airport had fires in it. Yeah, it was like a total shit job. My mom, we were both flying that day.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I got out early, but she said her plane was delayed like eight hours. And by the time it was boarding, like everyone had just started going to the airport bar. Like the whole flight was just hammered. By the time they were boarding, everyone was like, yeah. Like the moment they were like, we're now boarding. Everyone was like, woohoo. People started like fucking.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And everyone on the plane was like high-fiving and just shit-faced and ordering drinks. That's awesome. Yeah. Which was her worst nightmare, but sounds like a blast, honestly. Yeah, I did that. My flight to Amsterdam when I was going abroad got delayed like four times.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es macht keinen Sinn, warum es so ist, aber es ist ein Bruins-Bar und es war direkt vor meinem Garten. Und alle haben sich an dieser Bar verabschiedet und wir haben uns getötet. Das ist okay für eine Stunde Flugzeit.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I danced with an 80 something year old woman. She danced me out of my shirt twice.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh, I forgot. Last New Year's was the worst night of your life. Everyone in our house got Norovirus. There were like eight people in the house and four of them got it. So not everyone, but 50%. I don't want that. Are you familiar with normal virus? Hand up.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, it's a fancy name for the stomach flu. Basically it comes out of both ends. You can't control which end it's coming out of. Bird flu?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Peter was using the bathroom by the front door.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And, uh, and so at like four in the morning, it just sounded like he was watching like Jurassic Park on like full blast. Oh. And, uh, yeah, I narrowly avoided it. But, Hattest du jemals einen Schmerz und du konntest sofort beurteilen, dass das passiert ist? Ja. Bevor Peter die Symptome hatte, hatten wir alle Winge zusammen. Und ich frage Peter, kannst du eine Winge auf meine Platte legen?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, kein Wunsch. Und wir fliegen durch, wir sehen meine gute Freundin, Chris' Mutter, und sie fliegt, sie sind Hunde. Und wir hatten 50 Jahre, um zu sagen, wie man nicht hohe Menschen... Ja. Wir haben mit Chris' Mutter gesprochen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
That's a thing that dogs do that we pretend is normal, but we should probably nip that in the butt. We do it.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And so it was like... I think they call that a power bottom. It was more like grinding, if anything. But it was like, she wasn't very good at it, so she'd be humping, but her crotch would be a foot away from your leg. So she really had the grasp with the top legs, but then the back was just like... Aber es war wirklich weit weg. Ich kümmere mich nicht besonders darum.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich habe alle anderen Sachen, die ich geschrieben habe. Du konntest sagen, dass sie es tun würde, weil sie dein Ohr licken würde. Und so zu der üblichen Person ist es so, oh, der Hund ist sehr affektioniert, aber das war wie ein Telltale-Sign, dass es anfängt zu passieren. Also hat sie angefangen, ein Gastsehr zu licken und du hättest sie von ihnen entfernen müssen. Was ist falsch?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und du bist so, der Feuerwerk-Show ist anfangen zu beginnen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, it's not my pitch. It's just the worst business idea of all time. Single-use toaster. You throw it away when you're done.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
We had people over at our place, actually. And we played games. At your parents' house? No, I was here in LA. Played games.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, I invited Lauren, she didn't come. Why did you go to bed at 10? Sean...
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, I know, in my head you were at Ohio State.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I was at Sam's house and it was bad. Yeah, I went to Yankee Stadium for that BC football game. We lost. So, how did they do that?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Sie hatten alle... Oh, they got rid of the infield completely? Yes. Impressive. I actually can't really picture it now, but yeah. I feel like you just put like a... They put turf over it, I think, maybe.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
In the middle of the field, like there's like one mound. Yeah, yeah. There was still a pitcher for some reason. You know, the refs are usually like, do you want to go with the wind or away from the wind? Do you want to go at the mound or from it? First baseline or third? Ja, aber es war cool. Letztes Jahr waren wir in Fenway und dieses Jahr waren wir in Yankee Stadium.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es war Spaß, in diese Spiele zu spielen. War die Sehnsucht weg? Ja, es war seltsam. Du warst nur 100 Meter entfernt vom Feld? 100 Prozent, ja. Auch dort, wo wir waren, war es ein ziemlich seltsamer Ort. Ich glaube, es wäre Spaß, in Fenway, wenn du auf dem Monster sitzt, das wäre verrückt. Das ist das, was ich letztes Jahr gemacht habe. Oh, wirklich? Im BC-Football. Es war verrückt. Interessant.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Aber es war wie hinter dem Bench. Es war wie ein verrückter... Es war krass, aber ja, wir haben verloren. Aber nächstes Jahr ist unser Jahr.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wir sagten laut und laut, dass wir das verabschieden. Sie wusste es nicht. Wir kamen zurück. Und wir waren so hoch, dass sie mir schon gesagt hat, dass mein Vater... Nicht so, als würde er uns in Schwierigkeiten bringen, sondern nur so, dass wir uns vorbereiten. Sie sind so hoch.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think that's like a pickle word, right? You would have... I don't think so.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh no, it's... Christine. Christine Marie Grace. I saw... Tell me. I texted you guys. I saw Andre 3000 on my street. I'm 60% sure I saw him today and I was listening. I swear to God. Oh, okay. Bullshit. I get one cool spotting and now you fucking see him too? Sorry.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wait, I was driving through Santa Monica today and I was listening to Miss Jackson, which I never listen to, and this guy is jaywalking and just in no rush to get out. I have a green light. I had no rush to... Did he have glasses or no?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I guess it doesn't matter. Let's hear his story. Apparently he's everywhere. I was coming back from a run and I had my headphones in. The run the day before, I had been listening to him too. I was right on my street. I was walking up my street. In that picture on the left, that is a very similar hat to what he was wearing. That's what he was wearing when I saw him.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
That was him. I saw him this afternoon. Wow, he's a nice guy. There's no way we both saw Andre3000 this week. Do you realize that you're ruining my story now? Ich denke, es ist verrückt. Ich erzähle eine andere Geschichte. Am Weihnachtsabend passen mir und all meinen Freunden einen wirklich großen Pickle-Jar. Und wir nannten ihn den Bragi von Blyst.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und wir fühlten uns so nicht verhungert, dass wir eigentlich... Wir haben einen Marathon gefahren am nächsten Tag.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, das ist wahrscheinlich besser als seine Geschichte. Das ist ein besserer. Okay, erzähl uns, wie du das sahst. Ich tanzt mit einer 90-jährigen Frau am Weihnachtsabend.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And she spun my pants off. Fuck you! I saw Andre 3000. I saw him too. So how did you see him? My fucking eyes?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I was walking down my street and he was walking down. And he walked right by me and I went, I like stopped dead in my tracks. And uh... It's gotta be cool to be that, like that famous, but that... You haven't seen Andre 3000 recently, where every time he's walking around, no one's coming up to him because they're not positive. I couldn't believe it. I was like, is that fucking Andre 3000?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
There's no way. It's Andre 2000. And then I went and googled him, and guess where he lives? Venice Beach, not Brentwood. This was in Santa Monica. This was this afternoon. This afternoon? Yeah, I was coming back from the parking office. Es war morgens. Wir hatten ein Meeting um 11.30 Uhr. Ich habe dich angerufen und gesagt, ich gehe in die Parkung, bevor ich um 11.30 Uhr da bin.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Also war es nicht dieses Nachmittag. Okay, we're off. I'm seeing your stories all over the place. I saw them this morning.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Whatever the street is that goes through... Fourth? I don't know, maybe. I'm sorry, buddy. I didn't mean to take your story. But I did see them. While you were listening to Miss Jackson.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Is that true? No, yeah, the other guy from OutKast, Big Boy, did, if it's all right, I wanna kick it with you all night.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Alright, I'll drop it. So, they give you a receipt and you're supposed to hold on to it, which is something they should tell you at the top. Be like, here's your receipt, don't throw this out. Because the first thing I do whenever I get a receipt is throw it out. And when your car is ready, they go like, black Jeep, black Jeep. And you like walk over to the white BMW.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I don't know, I shouldn't do the accent, but they do. That is really racist. I will say it was a bad enough accent that you can't even picture.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I'm picturing the guy. Yeah, what is he? Hot. If you had to guess what race that was... Indian. No. See, that's how bad it was.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, his friend was sick. We walked into the, I think you were there, and I think you were there as well. We went to Jamesons after the New Year party. Company Christmas party. Yeah. Und ich ging rein, um mehr Bier zu bekommen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I would have said Indian. But they... He goes, black jeep, black jeep. And I go over to him and I say, thank you. And he goes, can I see your receipt? And I was like, oh, I threw it out.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich bin weg. Mein Auto blockiert den Rest des Autos, der ihre Anlage hatte und bereit war. Und zuerst sieht es so aus, als ob etwas passiert.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And all of their windows rolled up. And I was just like, I don't... That guy, he has my receipt. And one guy started doing this to me. It was a nightmare. And then finally he came out and he was like, alright. And handed them to me like he still wasn't sure. But he was gonna take the chance on me. Damn. I mean, I guess maybe people steal cars at car washes.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, but the guy whose car it would be would see all this commotion and be like, oh, nope, sorry, that's mine. Yeah, I mean, I think...
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich habe letztens mit einem Ragtag-Misfit-Gruppe-Toy angefangen. They have to be clearly not your friends. Have you seen Mark Wahlberg's crew? Pull up Mark Wahlberg's entourage. Don't use entourage. Pull up Mark Wahlberg's crew. Why is that? It's guys that are clearly not his boys.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It's just clear that they aren't his boys. They're like... No, the one I'm thinking of, they're white. Because they're white?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es sieht so aus, als ob es einen Manager gibt. Weißt du, was ich meine? Ja. Ich will mit einer Crew mehr anfangen. Okay, wir machen das. Ich habe etwas zu sagen. Bitte. Was? Der Süd hat etwas zu sagen. Das ist ein Andre 3000 Quote. Oh. Bird hiking. Was ist das? Oh ja, ich habe gestern ein Bird hiking gesehen. The bird was hiking. Well, the lady had a backpack.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
People were walking by us on the trail. And I just hear like... I was like, where the fuck is that bird? Lady had a bird cage with straps on her back. Hiking with her parakeet. But that almost made me sad. I was like, you gotta let that shit free. Yeah, well, no, you'd die. Yeah, I guess at this point.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh, I got another one. Um... Zach Bryan hat gesagt, dass er einen Podcast startet.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und er kam aus uns und sagte, dass jeder weiße Kind aus dem Suburb einen Podcast starten sollte. Er ist aus Japan, aber. Er ist aus Okinawa geboren. He was born on a navy base in Japan. Oh. You thought he was from Japan? Yeah, I thought it was just a fun thing about him. Well, when did he say that?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Put it on his Instagram story. Oh, you follow him again? I can't follow him, but someone sent me a screenshot. People keep me in the loop. I have a few people in my network that will let me know. Can you imagine if our company had drama like the other podcast companies do? Yeah. The Liam Angus fallout is pretty bad. I feel like we've at least kind of stopped. You and I need to have a fallout.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
We're going to have a fallout, I thought. Remember the script for March? Oh, right. Also, what is up with all these British comedians? Where do they come from? James Corden, Trevor Noah, John Oliver? They just get like huge TV shows. I've never heard of them.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Also, wir legen den Clip hier. Wahrscheinlich war das wie ein Karaoke-Ding.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It's like how that Robbie Williams guy is massive over there, but we've never heard of him. That movie apparently is doing awful. What movie? He has a biopic about him where he's a monkey. Oh, I heard about this. And it's doing not good, apparently. Oh, Wingspan. I got a new board game called Wingspan. Oh yeah, Will texted me. I called Will and he goes, Hey man, sorry, can't talk right now.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Hey, hey guys. Is there someone back there? Elmo back here. It's like if Elmo was back there. Someone had to jump out and freak out.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, that creaking. That's Lauren. Oh, okay. Alright. Do we got anything else before we get into the RM? Wait, I was just telling you about Wingspan. Oh, sorry. That was so rude. I do that a lot. No, you didn't. No, you don't. You do it once or twice. Cool. Yeah, look at images. It's so pretty. Wait, you play it by yourself? No. You could, though, but that would be kind of depressing.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Er wurde gescannt und bezahlt, um sich zu bewerben und seine Lieder vor ihm zu haben. Oh. Ich dachte, in dem Moment, als er sich mit der Band verabschiedet hat. Ich dachte, das ist das, was passiert ist. Und sie waren so, komm her, Bruder. Ich dachte, er war einfach so ein cooler Kerl. Ich habe diese Geschichte letztens mitgebracht.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I play it with my friends. Those are eggs, first of all. Birds don't lay beans. Can you eat them? You can't eat them. They do look like candy. But I got it for Christmas for my sister, and at first I was like... Was zur Hölle ist das? Und dann habe ich gesagt, okay, das sieht eigentlich cool aus. Ich habe es angefangen zu spielen. Ich, Jerry und Scott haben es letzte Woche gespielt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es war ein fucking Blast. Scott und ich haben es am nächsten Tag wieder gespielt. Ich bin super drauf. Und dann haben wir es immer noch gedacht, dass es so eine super Nische war, wie eine lustige Sache, die tatsächlich lustig war. And then on Saturday, I said it, I brought it up around Chris Powers. And Chris Powers goes, I was like, yeah, Christmas is pretty awesome.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
He was like, how was your Christmas? I was like, great, I got Wingspan, we've been playing that. He was like, oh, I had Wingspan on my list and I didn't get it. And I was like, what? He was like, I had Wingspan on my Christmas list and I didn't get it. I was pissed. I was like, what are you... Er hat definitiv genug Geld, um seinen eigenen Wingspin zu bekommen. Ja, definitiv.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Aber anyway, so apparently it's like a hot board game right now. Nice. So if you guys want to play, I know we're talking about... I'll play. We've been floating doing like live streams for Playdate, where we played board games.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, because you were always at a bar. I don't drink during the holidays with my family. That's not a judgment. You kept me like, do you want to come to this bar? Watch soccer. I know, but it's like when I'm home for a week with my family, I'm doing things with my family. I called him, I go, do you want to come watch the Premier League?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And he goes, no, I have to go hike on my land. That's a real... My parents bought six acres in mid-coast Maine. It's a cranberry bog. So you have to hike through your land. Well, we went to the land and then we did a hike in the area. I mean, it's not enough land to do a viable hike. But yeah, I was hiking with my family. And the other time I was playing ice hockey with my family.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I feel like I'm with you every week. I get one week at home with my family. I don't have any expectation of seeing you. Das ist nicht persönlich. Du hast mich nicht an die Weihnachtsfeier eingeladen. Wir hatten keine Weihnachtsfeier. Du hast mich nicht an die Weihnachtsfeier eingeladen. Okay, das ist wahr. Aber wir haben die Marsch hinter unserem Haus gebrochen. Es war so verdammt schön.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Das ist das Land, wo meine Eltern eigentlich leben. Wir haben dieses Land ein paar Stunden nach Norden. Aber ja, sie fanden, es ist ein Kranberry-Bog. Meine Mutter hat ein paar Kranberries gegrüßt. Lecker. Wir haben es, Alter. Deine Familie ist reich genug, um einen Kranberry-Bog zu haben.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Vor Jerry, glaube ich. Und Jerry war so, ja, das ist einfach ein Live. Did we already talk about this?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wir wussten nicht, dass es ein Kranberry-Bog war, als wir es gekauft haben. Mein Vater hat meinen Sohn da hochgezogen. Er ist ein Gardener. Er fragt, was er macht. Er sagt, ja, das ist cooles Land. Sie sagt, das sind alle Kranberries.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, a bog is like a holler. It's kind of halfway between a holler and a holler. They grow in water.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I've gotten glances in passing, but I've never... I try not to.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Arby Paws' husband is dying. Let's not talk about that. The way they do it in the large scale. Playing a dangerous game. My old ass cranberry bog.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, die Art und Weise, wie sie es in großen Kranberry-Bog-Operationen machen, ist, dass sie wirklich einfach zu erzeugen sind, weil man einfach alle Bäume schlägt und dann kommen die Kranberries raus und sie fliegen auf die Oberfläche, weil es in leichten Wasser ist.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wir haben nicht wirklich genug, um das zu bestätigen, aber meine Mutter hat eine Menge Kranberries gegessen, sie hat eine tolle Tarte gemacht, sie hat Kranberry-Chutney gemacht und dann einen sehr guten Kuchen mitgebracht. Also mein Spielplan jetzt ist, für fünf mehr Jahre zu podcasten. And then take over the family bog. And then take over the family bog and sell cranberries.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
They're selling in the grocery store for $10 a pound. So... Right. I would need... How many pounds do you guys have? I don't know. Probably... It would probably be really hard to make a living off of. Yeah, I think there's a reason most people aren't doing it. Yeah, but... I could.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wait, but... Oh, so it wasn't as cool. I mean, he was good. Right, but... But I thought it was like he knew all the words and the band just like got him in and like it was like a...
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
So he's like throwing stones from a glass house. Wait, this is... Who said this? Peter? Peter thought the term was Nego, baby. We should probably stop saying that.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Like if you live in a glass house, you shouldn't be throwing stones. Yeah.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
You know what I mean? Like if you came at me about having bad breath. Yeah. Right. Lauren, yours... Lauren says like lines come out of it. Ew. It was like Ed said to me the other day. He was like, oh my God. Yeah, he was like, we should get Lauren like thorough breath. No, no, no. He said something about like being a dick. He's like, why don't you stop being a dick? Something about glass houses.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And he goes, when have I ever been a fucking dick to you? You're doing it. He had one a couple months ago that really cracked me up. Because it was clear... It was clear... You know when something happens to like... It would be the equivalent of like a dad getting yelled at at work, so he comes home and yells at his kids, and the kid goes to school and bullies, whatever.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It was clear someone had told Edge that something he was doing was a bad look. Okay. Because he came into our office, and I was sitting with my feet up, but I had my laptop... It was like... That's a very normal thing to do, I feel like, in this office. Everyone works with their feet up, whatever. He goes, this is a bad look for you. And then left, and I was like, okay, that was weird.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And then I heard him go into someone else's office and tell them what they were doing was a bad look. He's just unleashing. I was trying to figure out, what could he possibly have been doing that someone was like, this is a bad look for you. Then he was like, I need to go tell other people.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
cool moment the coolness for me is twofold where 50 of it is that he was good but the other 50 which is i think is more important was that i thought he was just cool enough that the band was like we dig this guy's vibe get up here i agree yeah but i believe that wasn't the case i could be wrong i hope i'm wrong that is a that's a kick in the new evidence it felt like a kick in my nads too did i tell you about my night that night please it was viral
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Where it's just, I've already mapped out my year. So this podcast has two fucking roadmaps now. Literally shoot me. I've already mapped out my year. And I think if I check all these off, I can objectively say it will be the best year of my life. Does a roadmap imply that there's like an order?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Okay. I'm going to memorize every country in the world. I'm already like 80% of the way there. Give me one. Prove it. Seychelles. Das ist gut. Ich werde lernen, wie ich einen 4x4 Rubik's Cube lösen kann. Ich kann drei machen und es wird wie... Es gibt mir nicht das gleiche Stimm. Ich werde etwas aus Holz bauen. Vielleicht ein Schirm, vielleicht ein Dach, vielleicht etwas wie das.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, you can't. You have to like ease. That's the hardest part is like when you're done, you can't immediately like go eat whatever you want. You have to like ease your way back in. Can you just do this not when we're recording? Yeah. I feel like you'll be really grumpy. I think I'll have to like take a day off of work. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Great, yeah, definitely triple that.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I'm gonna make a full court basketball shot. Okay, that feels achievable. I'm gonna learn the names. This is another resolution, less of a goal. I'm gonna learn the names of people I see every day. Like, I talk to, like... Her? What's your name again? Ich sehe die gleichen Baristen und Parkleute jeden Tag. Ich denke, es wäre schön, ihre Namen zu kennen. Ich denke, das ist großartig.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Hast du jemals jemanden gesehen, mit dem du durch ihre Gemeinschaft gehst?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und ich sage, das ist fucking großartig. Was mich geholfen hat, war ein Typ, der in den Kaffeeshop ging, den ich jeden Tag gehe. Und sie waren wie, Ryan, der Juge. Weil sie wissen, was ich bekomme, aber sie wissen nicht meinen Namen. Ich werde ein Buch lesen. Okay. Just one. What do you want to read? Do like a Mice of Men or something? No, because I've already read part of that. Okay.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah. I'll check that off. Dog charities piss me off.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, you enter this one time, he hates them. Because he thinks that it's like a waste of resources that could be going towards humans. There's so many human-related things to figure out first. I know I'm being like the Grinch, and I think it's great that you're doing that. When are you going next?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Who's Bruce's? Bruce. Oh, der Mann aus Main, der das perfekte Burrito macht. Ich habe eine Verbindung zu seiner Frau gefunden, die mich vielleicht sagen wird, dass ich es tue. Ich denke, was ich bemerkt habe, ist, dass es eine süße Chilisauce ist. Das ist, was ich verpasst habe über die Burritos. Es ist eine süße Chilisauce.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nein. Okay. Ich werde ein Bild von meinem Zimmer für meinen Zimmer bekommen. Das habe ich lieb. Und in der Bildung wird die Bildung sein. I think that would be funny to be like, what's that?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Like everything I do. No, we were at Jamesons after our company Christmas party.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Dude, my dad can shoot a bee with a rubber band or like a fly with a rubber band. Oh, that's awesome. We had one of those salt guns at a restaurant I worked at. Same. Dude, oh, I think we talked about this. Did you also get like power hungry?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I'm also like no more salt. We can have flies now. Because we had like a wreck. We had like a score sheet in the back. We're like, yeah, I killed 85 flies last shift. The health inspector comes in and is like, whoa, I'm glad you're getting rid of them, but why are there so many? It's like genocide. Dude, the same thing happened. We got bloodthirsty, and then we're also kind of neglecting the work.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yes, that's what it was. Lines were accumulating because half the staff was in the back. Ah! Ich glaube, deine Roadmap ist gut. Ich bin gespannt, wie es weitergeht. Denkst du, wenn ich alle... Das muss der beste Jahr meines Lebens sein, oder? Ja, 2015 war gut. Ich habe ein Flugzeug geflogen dieses Jahr, also das ist ein bisschen schwierig. Vielleicht fliege ich ein Helikopter dieses Jahr.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oder ein Boot. Guys, we have ginormous news. You've seen us drink Accelerator drinks over the past year. And now... Honestly, I can't even believe we're saying this. They are officially partners of our podcast. This is a dream come true. I've been giving them free advertising for a while now. And now they are part of the team. We're part of their team.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And technically that means I work with Travis, Kelsey and Libby Dunn now, which is pretty cool. So I'm fired up about that. I got home from Christmas and there were several cases of these waiting for me in my living room, which was like a present that didn't come under the tree. That is awesome. It's the best kind of present.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh, there goes Runsty. Runsty and Lauren are both on their phones right now. Wait, wait, I was turning mine off. I was putting mine on do not disturb because it kept buzzing. Likely story, you're probably Snapchatting abroad.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Gehen Sie schnell vor, bevor dieser Deal bald auslöst. Wenn ich es empfehlen könnte, haben sie einen neuen Geschmack, Orange-Ice-Pop. Das ist lecker. Ich habe das heute getrunken.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Auch gesendet in meinem Haus. So lecker. Es hat mich energisiert. Es riecht gut. Ich meine, es ist wie fünf Kalorien. Du kannst dieses Ding nicht schlagen. Guys, that is $10 off Amazon with code 10 bucks off. We love Accelerator and you're going to love it too. I think they said we can curse during the ad reads too, right? In our meeting with them. So I just wanted to try that.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I only have one broad. Snapchatting the broad. We just got each other on Snapchat. Just got engaged.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, I just don't like the road map. Can I ask why? I don't know. I thought it was part of my character.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, you're right. I love you and I love all your efforts. I love you too, buddy. I love how your brain works. I will say... Should we ever do the roadmap first? We used to.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And a bunch of the comments were like, wait, I thought they were brothers. Really? Multiple. I kiss my brother. On the lips? All the time, we make out. Nice. I'm kidding.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und Touchdown-Zelebrationen. Du meinst Fußball-Bowl-Games?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
deiner ist wie spin the spoon yeah eat the cereal bowl toss smoke the weed smoke the weed um and then we're gonna do touchdown celebrations that don't exist which somehow i'm not i didn't notice that either of those were or both of those were football until now well hey football is on the mind it's the playoffs in college and the nfl and what a great season for us to celebrate a sport that we all love and have grown up around i love you all right let's hear our pitches lauren i also have two pitches today
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, I know, that came out like I was mad about it, but I more of just... You have two pitches that you came up with? Yep. Why don't you do one today and one for next episode? No, no, no. You don't want... No, I'm just saying, I want to keep... I like that Lauren's... Yeah, this is a rare... By this time next year, my prediction is that Lauren will be doing every segment.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think she'll be sitting here and I will be producing.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
A new, a new guy. Yeah, that is funny when, when podcasts grow, like the producer like leaves and like a new producer comes in. Yeah. Like they're like a character. I know, we should get like um.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think 100,000 would be a good goal. Yeah. Okay, 100,000. That would be hard to attain. Really?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Well, because you don't like them. You don't like what? What are you saying? Nothing. Are you trying to hint that I'm like a transphobe? No, I actually, when I first said it, I meant like, I feel like I talk about them a lot, but then I realized that's what you thought I meant, so then I kind of doubled down.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Does she accept them all? No. But I thought it would be funny if she did.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
That's not a fun rumor to start. It's not like a silly one. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I, uh, I make, you know... I hate them just as much as I hate everyone else.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Okay, no. What am I trying to fucking say? They always said when they were coming up, they're like, we don't ever want to be like a big band. Like we don't want to ever like make it too far past like general admission venues or something. And then they kind of did like, they just went on like a long hiatus. I don't know if it was related, like right as they were sort of reaching.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Well, no, I had actually a problem one time. I said my Snapchat on the podcast one time and all these people were adding me and I was like, oh, that's kind of funny. So I just added them all back. And then I started getting all these Snapchats from like high schoolers. Highschool-Girls. Ich dachte mir, oh mein Gott. Das wäre für manche Leute... Ja, glaube ich.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Like I feel like they've like mediated there. But I get that. As an artist, I feel like doing a show with real, true fans that know all the words and stuff in a small venue where everyone's general admission feels like a cooler thing to be able to do night in and night out than stadiums full of people that you can't even see.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
We have to start a new one. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Podcast 2. Will and Rusty's Playwright. There's like Shakespeare's in the corner.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I haven't read any of it. Do you read Shakespeare or listen to it? Me? I read it.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
All the time. No, like in fucking college in high school. Oh, Mr. fucking Big Brain over here.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Mr. Big Brain went to high school. Lauren and I were fucking getting laid. What did you guys do in college? You didn't read? Or high school, I guess. Christ school?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Playing tug of war. Running around in circles. Wearing collars. Walking in circles before I went to bed. Anyway. Scratching myself, getting fleas off. You already said it. Oh yeah, so I think we should emulate that. But we do have to pay the bills. I don't think this podcast quite pays our salaries yet.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Du sagst das immer, aber wir machen andere Dinge, die wir machen. Richtig. Aber ich denke, wir beiden würden gerne zu einem Ort kommen, wo das genug war, damit wir nichts anderes machen mussten. Sie würden uns das nie lassen. Wir wollen das, aber ich will nur das machen. Nein, ich meine, wir hätten das, ja, ja, ja.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Das wäre lustig, dass wir nur, wir kommen zweimal pro Woche, chatten für zwei Stunden. Und ich spende den Rest meines... Geh und spiel Bird Wingspan. Bird Wingspan.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, the thing we do. Also, we're going to do two episodes a week. Are we allowed to announce that yet?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Starting Monday, the first Monday episode, which will be a weekly thing, is January 27th. So, Mondays, Wednesdays? Mondays and Wednesdays. You're like asking us. I'm like, what? Alright.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Aber ich habe einen geöffnet und dachte mir, oh, ich kann niemals zu einem von diesen antworten. Wie hast du sofort gesagt, das ist Highschool? Es war einfach so, dass es in der Welt von Highschool sein könnte. Und ich dachte mir, oh, ich kann nicht random Leute auf Snapchat hinzufügen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nice. Okay, that feels like a shot at my past.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Health insurance. That's a good one. A dog? No, a car rental. Yeah.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh, that's awesome. Caroline Funk. You went to a dark place there for a second. You said it and you were like... She's a sweet person. I think we met one time. late years later and squash the beef. I love that because I would use that now, I guess I'm not 25, but I would use that now because I will forget what I'm trying to decide. Yeah, but how does the pro condo, I guess we keep it high level.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, I like it. So let's flesh this out a little bit, Will. Tell me something that you're struggling with. Right now? And I'll be pro condo. Something I'm struggling with right now. I am struggling with
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I'm not just struggling with the idea of dating.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Well, I feel like you don't actually want to date anyone.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yo, that's Will, bro. You didn't hear about Will. He doesn't date anyone.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think what I've decided is that I lack confidence in myself. Maybe I don't outwardly display that, but I feel like I have to figure out myself first before I would trust anyone to love me. Ja. Ist das verrückt? Nein, ich habe eine ähnliche Sache. Ich würde sagen, ich sabotiere das, aber ich denke, es ist nur, weil wir uns nicht lieben. Ich fühle mich, ja, ich möchte nicht, ich weiß nicht.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I don't even go on Snapchat in general, but there's still a handful of these random kids that will just send me Snapchats all the time. Yeah, I have a handful, but I can't tell if they're people that I met in real life or not. So I just respond. Yeah, I'd be like, hey, wanna come to prom with me? Big Hoko game this weekend. Yeah, theme is white out for Hoko.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Du willst nicht... Ich meine, das ist wie mir zu viel Kredit zu geben. Ich will nur, dass sie... Nein, ich will nicht... Ich fühle mich so volatil in meinen Emotionen und in dem, worin ich mich befinde. Und ich bin nicht so konsistent, dass ich fühle, dass es nicht zu einer Beziehung zu sein ist. Ich denke, ich muss das herausfinden, weil es würde einfach jemanden verrückt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich würde sagen, du hast diese Sprache runter. Das könnte ein gutes... Was meinst du? Ich glaube, das ist das, was ein Mann einem Mädchen sagt. Ich kenne mich nicht so als ein Manipulierer. Ich möchte dir mein All geben, aber ich kann es nicht. Das klingt schrecklich, aber ich glaube, es gibt eine Wahrheit dazu.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nein, das ist sicher, weil du dich nicht erlaubst, etwas zu machen, was du nicht weißt. Aber ich weiß es nicht. Bist du immer noch mit Mädchen verbunden?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und ich gehe auf Dates und so. Was ist ein typischer Date für dich? Do you want to roleplay it?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, so it is going well. Yeah, I'm just... I mean, I can't talk about this on the podcast. Yeah. Someone that I'm actively going on dates with? Yeah, I know. Where are you going to take her next? I don't know. She's out of town for a long time, so... Sie ist lange aus der Stadt. Sie ist aus Kanada. Sie geht in eine andere Schule.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich weiß es nicht. Ich weiß es nicht. Ich weiß es nicht. Ich weiß es nicht. Right. Maybe it's just like I haven't found the wrong... I mean, this current situation is like I haven't even gotten to the point of knowing whether to make that decision. But I'm just scared that I'm going to have the same realization or something.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Well, it's also like the longer you date someone, then it's like, oh, now if I wanted to end this, it would have to be a thing.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
As opposed to like one or two dates, you can just stop talking to them, I feel like. Yeah. I don't know. I just gotta... I guess if it's the right person, then that wouldn't be an issue. But I also think there are things I just gotta figure out better in my life. Will's like being super open right now and Lauren's just like fucking cracking up and eating her loud ass lunch.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
She's laughing with you about how bad you are. What is so funny about my fucking romantic failures? No, laugh. Tell me, tell me. You've been dating a guy for several years, so what's so funny about someone who can't have what you have? Sorry, I'm chewing beef and I don't want to talk.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, exactly, that's the problem. I need someone in my life who chews beef.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ew. So there I was, chewing beef. Dude, she came over last night and chewed beef. Yeah. But anyway, I think I'm getting there. I think I'm making good progress. I want to hear what Lauren thought was so funny about Will being honest and open.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Du hast noch nie meine Freundin kennengelernt, das ist verrückt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
That's how we find out you're like the student section leader. I was a super fan president, no big deal. I was too. You had all the chants of the games and stuff? Ours was more about setting up the themes and handling the t-shirts and stuff, but yes, I did do the chants as well. That was the same. I invented it. My senior year, I was like, I want to leave my mark. I try to do this everywhere I go.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich denke, wir hatten so viele schöne Nachts letzte Woche.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nicht im Januar. Ich meine nicht... Also, du machst Drei Januar. Warte, wir können... Du denkst nicht, wir können zu Abend gehen oder so? Nein, wir können zu Abend gehen. Ja. Oh, ja. Und bring deine Frau mit.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich will jetzt Margs trinken. Wir werden dich verlassen. Ich bin nicht verlassen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nein, ich weiß, aber ich mag wirklich nicht trinken. Ich will wirklich stoppen zu trinken. Du hast das letztes Jahr auch gemacht. Ich weiß. Ich habe es fast gemacht. Ich weiß, aber du bist so viel mehr Spaß, wenn du trinkst. I don't know. I just think the anxiety it gives me is like, it's just, it fucks up like other facets of my life. Like it's like, it's the most destructive thing in the world.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
So unproductive with everything else that like, I don't know. I want to like take work more seriously and like,
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
grow in like that sense and i want to like get like healthier and i think it's so easy to just i don't know i feel like the hangovers get so bad now where it's like if i go out on like a saturday it's like i'm not like fully with it yeah take out lauren said if she goes out on friday she's grumpy on monday yeah i don't know well i don't go out anymore i don't really go out i just said i just like set boundaries for myself too like okay
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, ich weiß nicht. Ich denke, ich möchte zumindest Januar machen. Ich fühle mich schon gut. Dieses Wochenende war großartig. Und ich fühle mich heute großartig. Und ich will das immer noch fühlen. Ich hatte vier Bier gestern, aber das war das einzige, was ich dieses Wochenende hatte. Ja, ich weiß nicht. Aber ich denke, das ist... Wie hast du dich mit dieser aktuellen Frau getroffen?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Mutual friends. Nice. You have those? I have mutual friends. I need to make mutual friends. I know. Northwestern mutual friends. I don't know. I think this is going to be a good month for me of self-exploration. Can you start drinking in February though? I don't want to. I don't want to say that yet, but I probably will.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, I know, but I don't think I need to have a beer to be fun.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
But that sounds terrible. But they're born out of like anxiety about everything else. We had the best day of our lives hungover though.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
at epcot yeah yeah yeah i mean there's definitely things i will there's definitely situation yeah i don't know i just think i feel like i'm like i feel like i'm gonna listen to this back and be like oh you're really manipulating well no you're not manipulating me it's i don't know i mean it's also been fucking four five days so like what am i talking about you're like i'm like sober but it's literally i drank on new year's eve so i don't i don't know i just think i want i definitely want to january and i don't want to like
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Leave my mark. So I left my mark in high school. You're always like peeing. Yeah, no, but in high school I was like this spirit captain or fear leader or whatever. And I wanted to create a new chant that would survive generations. So I created, we're the Raptors. Raptor football touchdown score. Oh, Raptor football touchdown score. Oh. Replay Loren's reaction right here. Loren did not like that.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Sag ich mal, Februar 1st? Ich will es wieder öffnen. Ich will es sehen. Ich habe mich für zwei Rennen eingeladen dieses Frühling, die ich versuchen möchte, gute Zeiten zu bekommen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es ist nicht so, als ob ich für eine 1v1-Rennstrecke eingestellt hätte. Ich mache eine 10k in April auf einem Halbmarathon. Ich weiß, ich wollte nur lustig sein. Entschuldigung, ich habe das einfach nicht erwartet. Nicht, weil du eine Frau bist, nicht, weil du eine Frau bist, sondern weil du bist du. Ich bin verrückt, das war dumm. Ich wollte nur versuchen, dich zu drücken, um mich aufzulösen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es ist lustig, dass es vier oder fünf Tage lang war. Ich weiß, aber ich fühle mich, als ob ich darüber nachdenke. Ja, ich weiß nicht.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Aber ich versuche, ja. Ich mache Dampfen im Januar. Und ich mache, wie, schmutzige. Nein, es gibt keine... Ich mache keine Weide, keine Trinken während der Woche.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Aber das fühlt sich nicht wie Dampfen an. Das fühlt sich normal an. Nein, ich glaube, dampft bedeutet... Auch Weid? Nein, nein. Ich weiß es nicht. Sie haben einen Stickball draußen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich glaube, dampft bedeutet wett. Ich glaube, es sollte ein Wort sein, das halb so dünn ist. Ich werde January danken. January danken. January danken bedeutet, es war wett an einem Punkt. Es war, ja.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, I mean, that's also, yeah. Alright, should we hear a second pitch?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
What's worse, I did on Saturday, I went to a darts tournament, where everyone was drinking, and I brought... Where the hell did you find a darts tournament? Dartstournament.com. Actually?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I wouldn't have gone, but I would have liked to have the option.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Who else was there? Edge, Kenward, Armand, Chris Powers, me, Jerry, Scott, a couple of Armands buddies.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
You weren't like, hey Jack, there's a huge darts tournament. I got personally invited by the host and it was like a small thing.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I couldn't just text everyone I know. Also, ich glaube, ich habe... Hast du so eine Beziehung zu Armand? Ich glaube, ich habe so eine Beziehung zu Armand. Ich habe ihn nie außerhalb des Offices gesehen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich werde ein Bowling-Tournament machen und alle, außer dir, Armand, auf die Ecke einladen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Fred hat eine Box von Pizza geöffnet, die mit Tape vollgeklebt war und ein Stück gegessen hat, bevor wir es bekommen konnten. Oh, wir haben nur ein Stück gegessen. Oh, es waren drei Hunde. Das ist wirklich süß. Oh mein Gott.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Er ist zu cool. Dieser Kerl rockt. Ja. Ich würde sagen, ich habe Triples dazu gebracht. Oh. Und sie wurden gespielt. Schön. Und alle Leute, die Dry January machen, hatten Triples. Oh mein Gott.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Alright, let's see the next fucking pitch. I bet it's like way to throw a party without letting your friend find out. You were too busy hanging out with Andre3000.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I didn't like it. Well, did it stick? I heard it did at least like two or three years down the road. I haven't followed up. I haven't been to my alma mater in quite some time now, but it was certainly an imprint on that year. We did it a lot that year. It was very fun. I remember going to do a chant at a hockey game and halfway through forgetting Weißt du, wie es endet?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
We both have tiny Camophobia. Sorry, go ahead. Like a GoPro?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich werde einen Gutsch-Schnitt nehmen. Es ist wirklich süß.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I'm gonna take an up-the-pant-leg shot of myself on it. And then we develop all the cameras. They're all gonna be tarnished. I'm gonna take a picture of my butthole. Nice. On my phone. Have you ever looked at your own butthole? Again, I think it's like I have to get a few ribs out. I've only seen it once. And it was not the color I thought it was going to be.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I thought mine would be like really good looking. And it turns out it's full of poop. Mine just doesn't close.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh, there's troubles. Feels like your accent's better than mine. I can only go... Oh, I'm from Ireland. Jamie O'Rourke was the laziest man in all of Ireland. Guinness.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I get it early in the morning. What's... The Ballad of Jackie Dandelion.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
What is the worst... Idiot, moron, get dumb. Alright, go. Get snapped.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, no, no, no, no. Did we? Yeah, we had this exact one.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Then maybe someone sent the same one, but we've had this picture before. This is awesome nonetheless. Don't put my boy Rory down.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think ranch or blue cheese. I said gang. Gang, gang. What up squad? Gang, gang. Alright, I love it. No, I agree. I think, um, what was the question? Do we like it? Do you want it? Yes. I want it. I peed three times during Wicked. And I got popcorn twice. That means I got it from my seat five times. I didn't get up once during Wicked.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
We had one bucket that was refillable and it was for the whole family. So I kept having to go refill it for the whole family. Alright, new year, new me and I'm leaving behind being a big stinkle stinkball like that guy from Charlie Brown. I don't want to have little stink waves flying all out of me when I walk anywhere.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und dann sind einige nur mit deiner Stimme. Ich habe auch vermischt. Und ich habe es gesagt und niemand... Du hast die Scheiße gekriegt? Keiner konnte es wiederholen, weil es keinen Sinn machte. Und ein Kind, ein Jugendlicher von der Spitze der Stände war so, was? Was? Yeah, it's tough. I was in Boston last year. There you go bragging again.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
But there is one thing I'm bringing into 2025 to erase my stinkage and that is Mando whole body deodorant. Seriously, this stuff is awesome. You put it everywhere and I mean everywhere. I know what you're thinking. I put it on in the morning. I put it on before my hot dates. And sometimes I put it on before bed, just so I smell good to myself. Mando's Scents, I can't stress this enough, delish.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yep. I had one that was like some sort of oak. I'm wondering if it says it. Oh yeah, Clover Woods. Clover Woods.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I got like rashes from the bad deodorants and stuff like that. No more. Not again with Mando. It's natural, it's good. Did you know that 12 hours after a shower the average man's grundle level is 5 out of 10? I actually did know that. That is true, but with Mando it's 0 out of 10. Send stink to the brink of extinction. Wow, they should hire you as a ghostwriter. I know.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
What? Aiming it. Timing it. Getting it in your mouth.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Pulling out onto a road? You're pulling out onto a busy road.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
You get blindsided and die in a car wreck. Es ist schwer zu beurteilen, wann die Fläche sicher genug ist, um rauszuholen. Ich weiß aus Erfahrung, dass du kein Experte bist, um rauszuholen. Oh, ja. Wir wurden von einem Auto verletzt. Danke, dass du mir das geliebt hast, Will.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And she was like, fuck it. Still sue him. It's like, can I just cover the lawyer? Yeah. But I actually think towns and cities should start doing this. If the speed limit, like, you know how fast cars should be traveling. They should put a pole Das heißt, du bist sicher, bis ein Auto zu diesem Polen kommt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Also würdest du warten, bis ein Auto nicht an diesem Polen war und dann würdest du einfach raus. Ich mag diese Idee, obwohl das dir einen falschen Sinn für Sicherheit geben würde, wenn das Auto steigt. Was ich fühle, dass viele Autos steigen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, ja, ja. Ich meine, das ist, um Traffic zu vermeiden, aber... No, but, yeah, I mean, I think what you're saying is good, but maybe they put the pole an extra, like, however many yards. Yeah, we can place it wherever we want.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
The only time I ever got pulled over was turning left onto a thing, and I just accelerated a bunch to catch up to speed, and then I guess I went over.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I didn't get a ticket, though. Wait, that was your pinch? Here's my pinch. Pitch sesh. Alright, here we go. Was ist... Ich habe keine Art, es so zu bezeichnen. Es ist ein Bike-Lock, der in den Frame des Bikes verbaut ist. Ja, warum haben sie das nicht? Ich vergesse immer, meinen Bike-Lock zu bringen. Ich glaube, ich brauche eine Anzeige, um es zu holstern. Du musst es umdrehen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Meiner ist wie ein Horseshoe-Metal. Der Bike sollte nur ein Horn drauf haben. Nein, es hat ein kleines Ding, das einfach rauskommt. Ja, es ist perfekt. Und es schlägt sich um. Warum existiert das nicht? Es wäre so einfach. Existiert das? Bildungs-Bike. Schau auf Bildungs-Bike-Lock. Nein, es existiert nicht. Gut gemacht. Und dann schau auf... Hotest Swimsuit Model 2025. Ja. Nein, Gott.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
The kid who was like my role for our rival high school was also at this bar, but we're like 23 now. We like hated each other, like truly, truly hated each other. And it was weird that just those things go, like we were just like, oh man, great to see you. But like at our entire high school was like, the majority of my effort was put towards like hating that kid. I fucking hate him.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, I'm kidding. We're excited. Okay, I'll do it fast.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Waking up. Falling asleep. Having to return to life.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I had a dream last night. It was... So like, you know, sometimes I'll take marijuana edibles at night. Your mom and I are worried about you. Guilty. And... Why are you throwing your life away? Well, I'm... I just... I know it's a gateway drug, so I'm trying to ease myself into harder stuff. Trying to get into... Yeah. But...
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Like when you take that like, you know, bunch of nights in a row and then you stop, then you get like really crazy lucid dreams. And so last night I didn't take it because I wanted to get up early today and not be groggy or anything. And I had this very lucid dream. Like I remember like all the details and I was like walking around in it. And I was just... ...at a Boston College football game.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And I remember the whole game. And we lost. By like three touchdowns to UMaine. Ich bin heute Morgen aufgewacht. Ich war neun Stunden draußen und ich erinnere mich auf die ganze Spielzeit, die mein Team verloren hat.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nein, ich fühlte mich heute gut. Ich bin aufgewacht. Das ist verrückt. Aber ich konnte nicht glauben, dass das mein Traum war. Ich war so enttäuscht. Ich war ein bisschen so, okay, ich weiß, dass ich einen verrückten Traum heute Abend haben werde. Ich hoffe, es ist was Cooles. Und es war einfach eine enttäuschende Verletzung. Und es war so kalt. 21 zu 3. Es war ein höherer Score als das.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich glaube, es war 41 zu 25 oder so. Aber ja, es war ein Bummer. It was a bummer.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Okay. Let me ask you guys. Let me ask you guys a question.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think I've found a duo that is going to do just that. For the sake of your... I feel like that's not how people feel about country right now. I feel like it's having a huge resurgence.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
In terms of mainstream relevance? We need to bring back people who are country to the bone. You're right, you're right. I think you're saying country's changing in a way that's getting too woke and soft. We need to get back to the old school country. Let's see some guys that are country to the bone.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wir sind zurück. Es ist der erste Podcast von 2025. Ja. Der erste unserer Show. Wir wissen es nicht. Wir hatten einen, der auf dem ersten kam. Richtig. Cool. Einiges ist passiert. Wir haben das vorher gedreht. Das ist wahr. Das ist der erste, den wir im neuen Jahr gedreht haben. Und wir haben neue, wir sind total neu dieses Jahr. Ja. Alles über uns. Das ist ein Sportpodcast jetzt. Ja. Und Lauren.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Waren nicht die Leute großartig? Ja, die Leute sind so großartig. Ich werde lügen, das war großartig.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
What's his name? We bleep it, but... Fuck... Wait, why did you hate him? I will give both of us credit. We were both very good at our jobs. And part of that was the Instagrams were like throwing jabs. And so like most of, I think his week probably consisted of this as well, was like being a detective. So it was like I had like inside sources at the school.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich mag das sehr. Ian Law Musik. Brooks in Please Be Done.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Warte, ich dachte, wir machen... Wir machen This Guy Rocks Now?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Also müssen wir die Roadmap folgen. Natürlich. Indubitably. Road and map, it's a road, road map. What you gonna do if you take a crap? Should I slack it to Brian? No, just airdrop it. I don't have that feature. I'm watching you be on an iPhone right now. You have that feature. I'm not on an iPhone. Oh, this is coming from the guy. Yesterday he called our boss. Wait, no, it still doesn't work.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I tried again. My iOS is too old. You didn't update it. No, I did update it. It says it's still too old.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
We're going to put right here who was right in this argument. I bet the update didn't complete. It did. What's the argument? He's claiming that he can't use Slack because his computer is too old. But he doesn't have the latest iOS. No, I downloaded it. We will put here if I'm right. We'll put it right here.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It says my Chrome extension. So did you update Chrome then? I don't know. Whatever. You have to update your computer and then update Chrome and then you'll be able to use it. So you didn't even do all the steps. I'm not listening to you anymore. Yeah, he knows he's wrong. This is like the other day. Oh my God, what was that fucking thing you were so wrong about and such a dick about?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
The last day we were here. Do you remember that? The fucking PTO.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh yeah, you were on his side. I still think I was right. Anyway. I wasn't being a dick. You were so mean to Emily. No, but also you guys went to go get drinks and I was like, can you grab me a Gator Light? And then I came back and you just let someone drink it. Warum ist das so? Ich verstehe nicht. Ich habe ein paar Trinken gekauft.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich habe sie abgelassen und gesagt, dass jeder Trinken hier ist. Jemand kam und nahm den, der für dich war. Und ich sagte, wow, das ist Rusty's. Trink nicht das. Und dann hat sie es einfach genommen und in ihr Office gestochen. Was soll ich tun? Sie haben sie gedrückt? Du hättest gesagt, warum warst du so wütend an ihr?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich war wütend an ihr, aber ich kann nicht wütend an ihr werden, weil ich nicht weiß, was das war. Und sie hat auch einen Sipp genommen und dann hat sie gesagt, oh, sorry, ich habe es zurückgegeben. Ich weiß nicht, aber du hast ihr gesagt, dass sie einen Sipp genommen hat, weil sie es wusste. Ich werde nicht trinken, einen Trink, den jemand schon getrunken hat.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Okay, aber ich sage nur, ich hatte nichts. Ich hatte keine Fault. Ich bin I went to the store and bought you a drink. No, you used company funds. Yeah, but I went and bought it for you. I still think that's insane to take someone else's drink. I agree, but I didn't do it. And I told her not to.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I'm fucking pissed now. I'm mad. I'm having a fucking freakout. I'm also hungry and when I get hungry, I get really mad. I just watched you eat lunch.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
You guys are all grumpy now? No, I'm in a good mood now. Alright, Lauren, play this. Wait, tee it up for us. What are we about to watch? A turtle or something. Just play it. A turtle!
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
That's so funny. It's a fucking turtle. I just made a diorama about reptiles. I know everything about turtles. It's so awesome.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It's awesome. Thanks. Alright, should we do Teach Me Something?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Have you guys ever wondered why British pubs are like the crown and toad or like the hat and boot? No, but now I'm curious. The dog and frog. Exactly. So apparently in England for a while the literacy rate was so low that most people couldn't read. So bar signs were like pictures. So it had to be like two things that were very clear.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And I was like, what's like the hot, what's the hot drama?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
So it would be like the boot and hat or like the king's head and crown or whatever. Because they would just put them next to each other because most people couldn't read. I like that. Isn't that fun? That is fun. Yeah, like the cat and the hat. The ball and chain. The ball and chain. It's just a picture of your girlfriend. What? Put a picture of my girlfriend right here. Make it Will's mom. No.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
That is my mother. Put a picture of my girlfriend right here. My dad listens to this podcast. Let's do British pubs. He commented unsubscribe on something. I forgot what it was. It was when we talked about him
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh, er war überrascht, als ich das gesehen habe. Er hat gesagt, du hast nicht die ganze Geschichte erzählt. Er hat gesagt, du hast nicht überlegt, dass es wirklich schwer war, dass sie da war. Die Benchfahrt war auf der anderen Seite. Anyway. British Pubs that don't exist. 3, 2, 1, go. Korchenbond. The Muddenstick. The Trinklebunk. The Tie. The Hat and Watch. The Hen and the Horse.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
The cow and grass. The stock and spigot. The helmet and shirt. The church and state. Nice. The Mason Dixon line. Alright, teach me something, Willy. Okay, I watched Goodfellas for the first time. So good, it's one of my favorite movies. Great film, yeah. And there's a mention made to like the Boston College Point Shaving Scandal, you know about that? And then I was reading a bunch about that.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
We went to Walmart and we made big blow-up... I don't know, in hindsight, if I had put half of the effort I put towards this job, towards actual school, I think I could have gone to Harvard. I got really good at Photoshop.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wait, what's the reference to it? There's just like one time he's like, I gotta go up to Boston and help him fix some games. One guy says it in passing at one point. But the whole like, do you know about the Boston College Point Shaving Scandal? No. Oh, you don't know?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It was like the mob, I think it's in Uncut Gems too, but I haven't seen that movie. But the mob was like, was paying Boston College Basketball players in the late 80s to point shave, to like lose by less, to win by less than the spread basically.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Are you sure? Look up Boston College Point Shaving Scandal, Lorenz.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It's like bottomless pit. Regenerating lunch. Lunch that grows. Oh, du hast recht, es war in den 70ern. Ja, gut gespielt. Danke. Die Moral der Geschichte ist, dass sie Spieler auf dem Team bezahlen wollten, um weniger zu verlieren als das Ausgleich. Und dann, weißt du, alle betten darüber und so weiter. Aber was ich interessant fand, ist, dass sie eigentlich nicht gut gemacht haben.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich habe über den Skandal gehört und habe immer gedacht, wow, sie haben Millionen gemacht. Sie haben vier Mal gewonnen, zwei Mal gespielt und drei Mal verloren. So they were up a game. Yeah, they were up one game overall. It was this huge scandal they fixed. They successfully netted one game. Can you imagine getting caught for this huge scandal? All these people are getting arrested.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, you barely made anything of it. So anyway, and the main guy in Goodfellas... Henry Hill. Henry Hill was like the centerpiece of the operation. Yeah, Ray Liotta plays him very well. Yeah, he looks like Phil Tarling. Click on this picture. Oh. I don't know what you're pointing at. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, okay, I see it now. Now Google Philip Tarling. Now Google Philip Tarling.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wait, not on a different tab. So we can pull up next to each other. I guess I kind of see it.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
What do you mean? No, it definitely is. Okay, go down to that one third row two in.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja. Okay, ich sehe ihn. Richtig? Ja. Ich habe den Film hundertmal gesehen, aber ich habe das nie einmal gedacht. Ich dachte sofort, dieser Typ sieht aus wie Rusty's Freund. Phil äugte sich schrecklich. Hey, ich mag diesen Kerl.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, manche Leute sind da und denken, was zur Hölle? Ist das nicht das Philipp Carlings Sohn? Er ist ein Playmate, er ist morgens. Außerdem müssen wir unsere 100-Gäste-Episode herausfinden. Oh, ja. Haben wir das schon den Playmates erzählt? Ich will dich nicht unterwerfen, aber du sagst immer, dass es deine Idee war. Es war deine Idee. Ich bin den Podcast zurückgegangen und habe es gesagt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja, das ist ein tolles Episode. Es wird drei Stunden sein.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Lauren wird nicht schlafen diese Woche. Okay, toll. Wir müssen Lauren mehr Adderall für Adiktion holen. Oh, du musst Adderall holen. Das ist toll. Das ist meine New Year's Resolution. Wenn ich Adderall holen würde, würde ich schlafen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Alright. To the doctor's office I go. Just do normal people things. There's like a trail of smoke.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No. Oh, sorry, sorry, Rich McGee. I didn't realize Moneybags over here had a personal gym. Yeah, Rich McGee.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Okay, I was thinking about this. I feel like running stairs is a good way to do it, like cardio-wise.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Am I allowed to do that in my apartment building or is that like a dick move to be like running up and down the stairwell? No one uses it. Do it. I know you don't care. I mean, they don't care. Who would care? No, people aren't gonna care. I don't know. I just feel like if I ran into someone, they'd be like, whoa. Fatay.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Dude, I looked at the Equinox and this guy will not fucking stop texting.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And I remember... I told the kid on the other side of the flag, like, hey, if you see any of these... Tensions were running high. If you see any of these kids that, like, might want to, like, scrap, like, tap me or, like, let me know. Because, like, I'm right on the other side of these curtains. Like, they know I'm there, but I can't see them until we're, like, face to face.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
No, I know, but I'm saying like, I'm over the whole gym thing because this guy texts me. I've responded like, I don't, I'm not joining. Du textest mich jeden Tag. Wer ist der? Stop text me. Also, it feels like he sells drugs on the side and his contact translated over. He just gets you an Equinox and then gives you Adderall. Wow, look at all the weight loss.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
There's a great Detroiters episode where they find a bunch of old diet pills from the 70s. Und dann nehmen sie sie und sie sind alle so, okay, ich habe eine Idee.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Do you think we'd get better at podcasting if we were on Adderall? No, it would seem like we were doing a better job. And then once we listened to it back, we'd be like, oh, my God. Oh, God. I used to do Adderall in college. It's like doing only for studying. Yeah, exactly. I didn't know what that's like. From what I've heard online.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Das ist interessant. Ich dachte, dass du ein Arschloch bist, aber jetzt denke ich, dass du es behalten willst. Ich denke, dass du das Baby benutzen lässt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich dachte, es war Piss oder so. Nein. Sie hat einen goldenen Schauer oder so. Trigger Finger.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Eine Sache, die ich auf meinen Livestreams mache, wenn sie wirklich spät gehen, ist, dass ein paar Leute, glaube ich, zu ihnen schlafen. Also, so um 2 Uhr. Manchmal gehe ich so, ah, ah, wach auf, wach auf. Und so instantan würden Leute in den Chat poppen, wie Jesus Christus, Mann, was zur Hölle. Oh, das ist so lustig. All right, anyway.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Trevor, hol dir deine Hand aus deinen Panten. All right.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think it's not worth the fight. You are the asshole to them. In their world you're being a big asshole. Yeah, I don't know. I think they would also have the, you know. But the baby is never going to know. Yeah, but I mean, I guess that's like a special thing if it's their first kid.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think you're a bigger asshole for asking for like money to help for food and stuff when they're in town. Well, you don't know their situation. I think that can be reasonable. Not everyone can afford to support. That's fair.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, it was just, like, on the ground. Like, gnawing at each other's T-shirts. Ich erinnere mich, dass wir uns in diese Position eingelassen haben. Und ich glaube, wir beide dachten, dass es viel früher brechen würde. Und ich erinnere mich, dass unser Vizepräsident, ein riesiger Ex-Kollege-Basketballspieler war. Und ich erinnere mich, dass er mich mit meinem Knie in meine Schuhe aufgehoben hat.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I like this guy. I didn't realize this guy rocks.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Because we're not equipped for that. I think we could do what a therapist does.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think she's let this go too far, where she's normalized too much.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think you shouldn't have called him fat, but you also, yeah, it's clearly got into it. Maybe try something like meatballs. Yeah, tabalard or something. Whale butt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Maybe he doesn't want to. It also seems like it's not something he wants to do, which is fine, I guess, if he doesn't. Right? I don't think anyone should be prescriptive of you need to change the way you look. Yeah. What? Nothing.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
He has Babs for sure. Babs? I don't look at pictures of your boyfriend's body online, but he would know. Put a picture of Lauren's boyfriend's ass right there.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Äh, ja. Ich meine, ich fühle mich, dass ihre Begrüßung mehr darum ist, dass er sich um die Küche richtet und so. Und es hat nichts zu tun mit dem Fakt, dass er überwacht ist. Ich weiß, aber der Breaking Point war, dass sie ihn fett genannt hat. Das ist, warum ich denke, dass das eine schlechte Methode war. Ja. Denn das ist nicht wirklich, was ihre Begrüßung ist. Richtig.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Es hat nichts zu tun mit ihm, dass er überwacht ist.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ja. Ich, Alter, ich, ehrlich gesagt, ich denke, es wäre. Ich versuche mehr dieses Jahr zu kochen. Was?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I think like that's a very fun way to show that. Yeah. I feel like I feel very cared for if someone makes me a meal, but I feel like I would like to be able to do the same for them. I'd like to make like a cake.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I feel like my dad caught a stray there. Well, yeah, I was just going after it. I was going after it. Did you see a lesson? Yeah. Mr. Kelly, I'm really sorry. And I will tell you, speaking of breakfast, you know what I had for breakfast this morning? I made myself breakfast. Sorry, continue. I had toast with Barney Butter on it. Oh, nice. Nice, good plug.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und er hat mich zurückgezogen. Und dann waren wir so, okay, nennen wir es even. Ja. Good fight. Another draw. Split decision.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Do you know his dad owns an almond butter company? And this is my favorite thing about your dad's almond butter company. They recently expanded into peanut butter. Right. To me, that's hysterical. It's like the inverse. It feels like there's an untapped market. They started like way too niche. They were like, all right, fuck it, we'll do peanut butter.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Well, because they have to do, they had to open a separate plant because the whole point of almond butter is like a cake. It's a separate plant, yeah. It caters towards people who have allergies. And so they couldn't do peanut butter because you get a certification where it's like, this is safe for people with not allergies. And so it was like a bitch to do
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, not everyone can eat peanut butter at will. I house it. I had a roommate in college once. Nice. He actually had an all-time name now that I'm thinking about it. I guess I won't dox him, but he was allergic to peanuts. And I one time had Reese's Puffs in my room and he was not happy.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nothing against this guy. I feel like if you have a deathly... Allergie to peanuts? You should have to live with another guy who has that, because it's not fair to you that you can't have your snacks. Yeah, I mean... I will never forgive him for that year he took from me. Now I eat so much peanut because of him. No, I'm just kidding. I love penis butter. I love myself. Wait, where were we?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Playdate podcast. We are about to jump into our 25 ins and outs. Oh, yeah. Okay, should we start with our ins? Ins. All right. In 2025 ins and outs. Let's start with the ins. Inns. Calling girls shoddy. Cooking gumbo. Driving in the bike lane. Getting scurvy. It's hot in a mysterious way. Chasing tail. Pumping dumps. Telling your friend you sat in gum and then showing him your balls. Laying eggs.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh yeah, sorry about that. Yeah, it's just something funny that happened. So we're at Jamesons and I was like about to walk into the bar. We were all at the outside area and I was going to walk inside and this like very pretty young girl comes out. Not like the right, like my age, probably. One of your Snapchat girls? Yeah, no, no, no. She got you on Snapchat. No, no, no. It was gorgeous.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nice. Outs. Gold digger prank in the hood. Micro shorts. Wait, that was Inns. I thought you were saying outs. I'm sorry. I thought that was your in. I still had another in. My last in was gold digger pranks in the hood.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah. Okay. Outs. Micro shorts. Chicken pot pie. Micro plastics. Organized labor. Micro penises. Kirk Herbst Street. Micro economics. Flightless birds. Counting your macros. I think you should just eat whatever you want. I like that. You should do a 72-hour fast. You want to tee this up? No, you tee it up. Well, I tee them all up. I know, but they do better when you tee them up.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I never tee them up. These are touchdown celebrations that don't exist. I was talking. These are touchdown celebrations that don't exist. Hit me. The tailor. One guy gets on his hands and knees, the other guy stands on top, and then one fits him for a suit. I love that. The hibachi. It's like the shrimp toss thing, where one guy gets in the middle and all the other players line up, and he goes...
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I like that. I feel like that would be awesome. I like that. The pommel horse. Two guys get on their hands and knees and then one guy gets on top and like breakdances on top of them. The DJ set. One guy faces the crowd and starts DJing and everyone else gathers behind like those people that everyone else gathers.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
One guy gets up and starts DJing towards the fans and then everyone else crowds behind like the people in the booth.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Die Moripovich. Okay. Sie halten den Fußball wie ein Baby. Und dann sagt einer der Spieler, du bist nicht der Vater. Und sie haben einen großen Kampf. Das ist großartig. Danke. Ich habe den Red Hot Mill. Jeder schlägt sich mit seinen Beinen. Und dann schlägt ein Spieler durch. Und sie schlagen ihn in den Arsch, als er durchgeht. Schön. I don't get that one.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
What do you mean? The Red Hot Mill? That's just what it's called. Everyone lines up with their legs spread like in a row and then one guy crawls through. Everyone's facing this way and the guy's crawling through everyone's legs. Oh, I like that. Why is it called the Red Hot Mill? That's what my mom used to call it. Wann habt ihr das gemacht? Wir haben das früher gemacht.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wenn ihr Probleme hattet, hattet ihr den Red Hot Mill. War das ein Crowdsourced Spanking? Ja, aber in einer lustigen Art. Wer den Kornholz verliert, hat den Red Hot Mill. Also war es nicht so, dass du Probleme hattest in der Schule? Nein. Es war nicht so, dass du den Red Hot Mill hattest. Nein, es war nicht so, dass ich mich verletzt habe. Sie hat mich nicht getroffen.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I've got the communion, where they all line up and some players cross their arms. That's great. Like if they haven't scored that year. Yep, that's great. The bomb diffusion. They all back away from the football and then the two guys carefully go up and they snip a wire and everyone goes crazy. I like that. Alright, TSF for bowl games that don't exist.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
These are college football bowl games that don't exist. The Luigi Mangione United Healthcare Bowl. Okay, love that. I've got the Timu Bowl. It's only one half. I like that. The BP Oil Clean Oceans Bowl. Love that. I have the Exxon Mobil Wildlife Bowl. This one's kind of fucked up, but the Jeff Epstein Boys and Girls Club Bowl. Jesus Christ. I've got the Campbell's Bowl of Soup. I like that a lot.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
It looked like a supermodel. Or maybe it just felt like that in the moment. I'd had a few beers.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
The Nancy Pelosi Securities and Equities Bowl. Love that. I've got the Mike's Bowl. It's just a guy named Mike paid for a whole bowl himself. I want to get rich enough to buy a bowl. Willie D's Bowl. That would actually be awesome. The Naming Rights Bowl. That's an idea I have. That's what it's called the first year.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
And then whatever team wins it, it's then like the next year would be like the Penn State Bowl. Oh, I love that. Whoever wins it the following year, then it'd be like the Boston College Bowl or the Mumford & Sons Bowl if they want it one year. Those guys are trying to play more. They're playing more. Alright, we gotta fucking get this podcast over with. We've been going for eight hours.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh yeah, this weekend I'm going to Laguna Beach, so I'm stealing Kelly Slater's. I'm gonna go back to Jimmy Buffett, just cause I like his vibe. I love that. Lauren?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Yeah, I'm trying to decide whether to keep growing it or cut it. And do not comment.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Hast du die neuen E-Girls gehört? Nein. Was ist das?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Nein. Was? Was machst du? Was? Oh, oh, oh, die technischen. Die neue Version der E-Girls.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Oh yeah, no, it was a random person. She comes out of the door and is like kind of like running out and I was like, whoa. I kind of like step back and then this really tall handsome guy comes out behind her and is like... Hey, whoa, and she's like, get away from me, don't fucking come near me, stay the fuck away from me. And then the guy, like, lunges towards her.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
I-Ladies nuts on your face. Alright, we'll see you guys next Wednesday. Lauren, get fucking zung. Love you guys. Peace out.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
So me and this other, like, bystander, being the good guys we are, heroes even, some say. Wait, lunges like you, like, dove at her? Not, like, off his feet, but, like, she was like, stay away, and then he kind of, like, was like... Sie hat sich vor ihr gefühlt und hat einen großen Schritt gemacht. Ich denke, andere Leute sagten, dass sie ein Held oder ein Heiliger der Frauen ist. Ein Alli.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ein Alli. Eine Frau, die sie liebt. Blablabla. Was auch immer. Ich komme nicht in die Headlines. Ich war nur im Moment. Ich und dieser andere Kerl haben unsere Arme rausgelegt und ihn stoppten. Er bemerkt den anderen Kerl zuerst. Er versucht, mit dem anderen Kerl zu kämpfen. Dann habe ich gesagt, oh ja, ich bin raus. Dieser Kerl kann meinen Arsch kacken. Du hast ihn aufgeregt.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Wie war das große Home Run letztes Jahr? Lauren ist der Catcher. Yep, that's right. We do have our softball championship game tonight. Yes, which I might come and watch. Are there our friends in the stands or would I be the only, or mostly the other team?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Ich weiß nicht, was los ist. Er kämpft mit einem Mann, der ihm einen Wedgie gibt. Ich habe den Hinterkopf, du den Vorderkopf. Und ich mache nur Wedgie. Er ist so... Ich versuche, diesen Mann zu kämpfen. Du bist nicht Teil davon. Der andere wird tatsächlich getötet, während ich dem Mann einen großen Wedgie gebe. Anyway, er... Long story short, er schreit, bitte, bitte.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und dann dieses andere, wirklich alte... weird looking guy comes out with a weird haircut. Have you ever seen Boogie Nights? Look up Philip Seymour Hoffman in Boogie Nights. It was him. He's getting ready for Boogie Nights too. He was method acting. I was trying to figure out if it was Seaman or Seymour.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Der Kampf stoppt und alle sagen, warte mal, was ist mit deinem Haar? Er war wie eine dünne Version von dem Mann. Er war wirklich schräg. Wir lieben Philipp Seymour Hoffman. Er ist tot. What? Actually? You know what's really sad? He did drugs when he was younger and then he was sober for 23 years and then in his 50s he relapsed and he had a family and everything and he died within like two years.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
The problem with that is these guys that stop because then they try to do as much as they... All they know is the amount they used to do. Sorry, continue. So Philip Seymour Hoffman joins the fight. No, but he's like a scrawny version. That's not a great example, just kind of like equally kind of off-putting. Es ist nur das Haar. Ja, das Haar.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und sie ist so, ja, und geht mit einem merkwürdigen Mann. Ich war so, was? Und dann geht sie, der Mann. Warum muss sie mit jemandem gehen? Ich denke, ich denke, es wird alles zusammenkommen. Und dann geht der Mann so klick, klick. Und es war so, als ob es ein Golddigger-Prank-YouTube-Video war. Ein 500.000 Dollar McLaren war dort parkiert.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
official ins and outs of 2025
Und der merkwürdige Mann kommt in den Fahrerseit und sie kommt in den Fahrerseit. Und der hübsche, tolle Kerl kommt dann auf seine Knie auf die Seite und sagt, nein, geh nicht mit ihm, bitte, bitte. Und der seltsame-sehende Kerl war definitiv trank. Also hat jeder, der das gesehen hat, gesagt, whoa, geh nicht mit dem Kerl in den Auto.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
she broke up with me at hibachi
Were you tested as part of the GATE program for gifted and talented? I'm about to give you deja vu. Does that sound familiar?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
she broke up with me at hibachi
Do you remember being pulled out of elementary school class and wearing these headphones?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
No. Oh. All right. Like, The only problem, I sent in a report several months ago. Are you talking about the gas line that runs behind my property? I believe so, yes, sir. With the change of that pipeline over the years, I know that it was replaced. I don't know what year, but so much water runs in that Everett Branch Creek.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
adjacent there I have a I don't even have my five acres behind my property because of all the water it's washed out my bridge so I haven't moved anything but the water has alright well that makes sense that might be what you're referring to because I've got a 10 foot cliff in front of my bridge now because Just the amount of water that runs through that creek.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
So if that's what you're referring to, the answer is yes. I haven't moved it, but the water has.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
Take a few inches off of it. The dirt needs to be added.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
Dude, you would. I mean, yeah, because it's just washing closer and closer to the gas line. And that's important to y'all. But what's important to me is that that'd be great if y'all could fill it in. And I'm going to actually build a retaining wall to help that problem. But if y'all could fill it back in with dirt so I could get to my property. It has to be jumbled.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
Yeah, could you keep me posted since you have my contact information?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
And you know where I'm talking about, right?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
Okay. Do you mind if I get your name and number?
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
Yes, sir, and my number is... Man, I appreciate the call, but yeah, if you couldn't take anything away, but if you could have, that'd be great.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
We'll see what I'm talking about. Thanks, brother.
Will & Rusty's Playdate
we built the biggest rube goldberg machine
Baseball player wore this a full month. It's so smelly.