Chris Deluzio
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Yeah, you bet. Born and raised in my district, which I love. It's western Pennsylvania, outside Pittsburgh, all the way to the Ohio and West Virginia borders. Battleground, you know, swing district. Went to the Naval Academy after high school. So 9-11 is my senior year of high school. It makes me 40, which I guess is middle age now.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Yeah. I deployed at sea a couple of times. I did a tour on the ground in Iraq. And then I came home, became a lawyer, did some voting rights work, Brennan Center, worked at the University of Pittsburgh, and then ran for Congress in 2022. My predecessor and friend, Conor Lamb, ran for the Senate. I held that seat. Now on my second term, serving in the House.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
You know, I think we're in a moment where like we're we're scrambling the old left right center stuff for Democrats. And for a long time, that's been the divide. And yet I've been seeing colleagues across, say, the New Democrats and the Progressive Caucus and the Blue Dogs.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
who are where I am, which is to say like aggressively front and center on the economy and, you know, fighting for our people against whoever is ripping them off and making life worse. And I think that's actually like a glue that can connect more of the Democrats. You know, there are parts of it that are pretty progressive and there are parts of it that are all about growing the pie, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Like it's one thing to say, you work hard, let's make sure you get a bigger piece of the pie, but let's also grow the damn thing. And I think that's where I want the party to go.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And so there are parts of more progressive populist economics and there are parts of, you know, my abundance colleagues that I think together, that is the future for Democrats and can frankly put us in a strong position to unite to fight against Donald Trump in this moment.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Yeah. And look, I have problems, I think, with that framing. And I'll tell you why. I think the fighting instinct and the very honest view of power and who has it and who's in the way is the part that my populist instinct gets clearly. And my colleagues in that point of view, I think, get that. The growth part that the abundance crowd is, I think, focused on is correct.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Like we have to have growth. There are obstacles and people with power and institutions of power who are blocking that, which to me, I think is maybe missing from the analysis there. But I look at this, I'm like, look, People should have a bigger piece of the pie and we got to grow it. And I think that is a glue that we can have Democrats unite around.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
We'll have to pick some fights and I love a good fight, believe me. But I think that's where we go. And I think it is... You know, a real contrast to Trump's phony fake populism. I mean, this is real stuff, right? Fighting against monopolies, getting whoever is in the way of us getting more affordable housing to people, making sure life's not a ripoff.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Like we will have some fights and that's a good thing. And it will expose how fake Trump's stuff is. That's just, you know, talking points about caring about working people.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
So I'm in Western Pennsylvania, right? This is like a battleground within the battleground state. And, you know, Trump comes on the scene. You know, he's now been the nominee for the Republicans three presidential elections.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And I think he picked at, right, a weakness for Democrats, which was, you know, he was saying the things about NAFTA and saying the things about seeing manufacturing jobs go away and playing on some real frustration and anger that people in my part of the world still have.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And it was both Republicans and Democrats in power across decades who caused the death of, say, the glass factories in western Pennsylvania, a lot of the steel mills, you name it. Trump played on that. Now, his answer is ridiculous, right? The trade war he's starting is not working. It's causing tons of pain. It's destabilizing world markets. Tariffs alone don't work. But he's played on that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
You know, he plays on racial grievances and all the rest. But I think... His ability to be a chaos agent and to play on the fact that people have seen the American dream slip away. You're not more likely to be better off than your parents. And that's a change in the first generation that's happened for since the Second World War. That's a problem. And I don't think he has the answers for that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
But if we're offering up, we're going to defend the norms and institutions and the elite people who run them. When they fail, it's not going to work.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
It's not a personal thing to her. I think it just has to do with who Democrats are fighting for. And I have this fear that Democrats are too wedded to this. We got to find a win-win everywhere. And like, listen, there are plenty of problems where you get a win-win and it's great. But like sometimes there's an asshole who's like hurting your people. It's not enough to say I'm fighting for you.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
It's also got to be I'm fighting against that asshole. I think we need a little more of that as Democrats. You have my buddy Pat Ryan on recently and he and I talk about this a lot. Yeah, it's not just Donald Trump or anyone else. It is whoever is making life miserable for your people is who we got to fight. And we got to name them. We got to take them on because you can't just be.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
I'm going to fight for you without naming who that villain is. I think Democrats need a little more of that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
It depends. I mean, right now, Donald Trump is wrecking the global economy. He's a villain in many ways. But it's also, you know, a monopoly who's screwing over my local pharmacies. I had a couple of local pharmacists come down to D.C. with me. We launched this, you know, anti-monopoly caucus. These are small business owner types. You know, think of like Rotary Club, local chamber of commerce.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
These are not, you know, fire-breathing lefties. And they're important businesses in a community on your main street. And they're getting squeezed by like PBMs, these pharmacy benefit managers. They're essentially monopolists. There's three or four of these companies that got like 80% of the market share. And they're killing pharmacies. And so I named that as a fight. It is a fight.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
It's an example where there is a bad guy who's hurting pharmacies, who's driving up prescription costs. And you got to name them and what you're going to do about it. And I think we need more of those kinds of fights now. We should pick them, we should take them on, and we should be clear who we're standing up for in those fights.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Chris Deluzio here from Western Pennsylvania, proud son of the Rust Belt. I think a wrong-for-decades consensus in Washington on free trade's been a race to the bottom. It's hollowed out our industrial power, cost us good jobs. The president's tariff announcement, though, and his trade strategy has been chaotic. It's been inconsistent.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
We should not treat our economic allies, like Canada, the same as trade cheats like communist China. I do not want to see corporations use the cover of these tariffs to now price gouge families. Tariffs are a powerful tool. They can be used strategically or they can be misused. They've got to be used in sectors that make sense. They've got to be paired with real, meaningful industrial policies.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Well, I think let's start with the easy thing, right? What Donald Trump is doing is reckless and dangerous and he should stop. I mean, I think. You have near unanimity, I think, among Democrats on that point, period. I don't think it's ever enough for Democrats to just be this guy's bad and particularly just Donald Trump is bad. Like we've tried that, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
We lost the presidency, the House and the Senate. I don't think we can define ourselves just in opposition to him. And yet what he's doing is tremendously dumb and dangerous. And even a guy like me from the Rust Belt, from steel country, who is mad about seeing manufacturing go away, can say clearly what he's doing is wrong, is foolish, is dangerous.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
I think that helps Democrats when a guy like me can say how bad President Trump has been here.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Yeah, maybe. I think the first part, for sure. I spent some time this last week with some folks in organized labor in Western Pennsylvania who were saying exactly what you were saying. We're taking hits on our pensions. We're worried about losing out on bids for new construction and jobs because of materials and uncertainty and costs. Absolutely.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
But I still think we got to have an answer for what Democrats want to say and do about our industrial power. And this is not just some homage to the past of we should make more things as some good on its own. We should make more things for a lot of reasons. But if nothing else, our national security. I serve on the Armed Services Committee. I know what our defense industrial base is.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
It is a hollow shell of its past. We cannot produce the things we need for our national security, period. And I think if Democrats cede ground to Donald Trump as being the only guy who's trying to do something about this, and he's failing, I mean, let's be clear, he's failing at it. If we cede that ground, we're making a huge mistake on policy and on politics, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Because we got to win in Pennsylvania. We got to win in Michigan. We got to win in Wisconsin, not just in 26 in the midterm, but we got to win the presidency back. And I'm telling you, he is going to peddle the same BS he's peddled about standing up for workers when doing nothing to help them. We got to have more than just he's messed up.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And I think for me, Democrats have to be able to win in these places. We know how to do it. Right. I intend to keep winning. Josh Shapiro, I think, is going to kick butt next year in Pennsylvania. So we got to be able to have a message and something beyond just he is bad on trade for us to be able to earn back some trust in people.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
I think the abundance crowd correctly pointed out that
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
The Chips and Science Act, OK, good bill. I would have supported it if I were in the Congress. You got to move fast. It can't take years and years and years to get stuff done. Same with the IRA, right? Getting money out to build, say, the EV charging infrastructure can't take a decade.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
So there is something to be said for speed and actually getting the government to accomplish things, especially as you're trying to attract private investment to act here.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
That's number of jobs rather than like share of the economy. And so there are some productivity gains baked into that. It's also, you know, NAFTA was not the beginning of different trade policies in this country. The steel industry collapsed in the mid 80s in western Pennsylvania. That's before NAFTA. But we still had pressure from, say, Japan before that.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
We had pressure domestically where, you know, the South was basically guaranteeing these companies they'll never be a union here. Bring your factory to Arkansas or Alabama. So we had domestic pressure against the Rust Belt for a while. And we did have industries take a real gut punch post-NAFTA, automotive, glass manufacturing, some others.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
But again, if trade makes sense with our allies on fair terms, absolutely. That has gone too far that we can no longer produce the things we need even for our basic defense industry. You know, the Chips and Science Act wasn't just some academic thing. We essentially allowed the Communist Chinese Party to dominate global manufacturing of semiconductor chips. That's a major problem.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And so I think there have been excesses here. And I'll take you back to parts of my district. Right. We could drive along the Allegheny and Ohio rivers and go through the glass factory and steel mill towns and see what was left when, say, a J&L steel and oil equipment went from more than 10,000 jobs to zero. I mean, it is real devastation and pain that comes to communities when this happens.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
I think the bargain may have worked out in some parts of the country. It has not been a good bargain for a town like Aliquippa to go from, again, 10,000 plus union steelworker jobs at J&L to, you know, now you got some cheaper stuff at Walmart. It's not been a good bargain for lots of people.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Man, it's corrupt, right? I'm a guy who doesn't think anyone in Congress should be trading stocks, period. So let's start with that. We all get access to sensitive information. The fact that people make money trading stocks, I don't care what party you are. I think it's corrupt. People hate it. The tariff announcement, now this feels like weeks ago.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Remember, he tweeted about it or put it on True Social or whatever. Great day to buy. And then a couple hours later, announces the pause. And there's some evidence people knew about that and were making some trades. That is corrupt to its core. I think it's like the exact reason people don't trust our government.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And so I am all in for whatever investigation we can do to find out who knew and did they make trades based on that? Because they're not just doing this in isolation. They're ripping people off, right? You're a pension fund. You're on the other side of these people trading. You're losing money at the expense of people enriching themselves based on their jobs.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
So I don't think it's that complicated. Like people can smell corruption and this is it.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
You know, I struggle to put it to words because it's just insane to think about this is where the leader of the free world is now. And one of the people who's come up, gentleman from Maryland, union apprentice, was here lawfully. The government conceded. that they removed him from this country by error.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And, you know, Trump is now facing down a 9-0 Supreme Court against him, that this guy ought to be brought back home. And I actually think a really important, maybe a little bit overlooked part of this, you had the leader of the building trades unions in Washington last week rallying. I actually have that audio.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
No, I mean, look, that's powerful, right? Like these are not bleeding art lefties. These are the guys and gals in the building trades. We're talking iron workers, carpenters, steam fitters, you name it. And I was touring local 12 sheet metal workers in my district last few days. talking about all the stuff you'd expect. You know what else they brought up? Bringing their brother home.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
And that's like a really powerful thing that you see labor standing with this guy and helping, frankly, do the thing we got to do, which is defend our constitution, the rule of law. Like that's a powerful part of this that I hope gets a lot of attention. So I'm glad you had that clip.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Yeah. And we have to tell stories too, and like talk about our values. Most people think that You want to work hard, take a shot at the American dream? Like, hell yeah. That ought to be front and center. What we expect of citizens in this country, what we expect of aspiring citizens, like we want our government to reward.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
This is a guy who's working his butt off to become a union apprentice trying to do exactly that, who had every right to be in this country. And so it should outrage you. And I think. you know, we shouldn't be afraid of calling that out, right?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Of like, this is a moment where, you know, our system is going to be tested and tested around a guy who was doing what he should have been doing, working hard, trying to earn his shot at the American dream.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Maybe. I mean, you know, look, we don't have all the answers down in Washington, which is like we should always remember that as elected officials. Maybe. And I think also what the president does in the next few days is going to tell us a hell of a lot about, you know, how the next year or so is going to go and whether we're going to have a constitutional crisis like this.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
I love it. As a kid, I was a huge WWF fan, which I guess now WWE.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
So Stone Cold is a little bit older. Like I'm a little older by the time he kind of pops off, but like became, you know, a favorite as a kid. Like Hulk Hogan was the guy, right? I'm 40.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1021: Josh Barro: Total Idiocy
Yeah. So like, I love the spectacle of wrestling and we got some like semi-pro local stuff in Western PA that I got to get to soon.