Chris Hayes

I think that's probably true. And I also think that the general shock jock model has now become a successful model in politics.

I think that's probably true. And I also think that the general shock jock model has now become a successful model in politics.

So I agree with that. And I want to sort of take those in two parts because I think the politics is actually worth taking a second with. Mark Robinson ran for governor of North Carolina. He was already elected statewide as a lieutenant governor. Said lots of outrageous things all the time.

So I agree with that. And I want to sort of take those in two parts because I think the politics is actually worth taking a second with. Mark Robinson ran for governor of North Carolina. He was already elected statewide as a lieutenant governor. Said lots of outrageous things all the time.

He was discovered to be, almost certainly, I think he denies it, but it seems to me pretty plausible, a commenter on the Nude Africa site where he said all sorts of wildly offensive things, including, I am a black Nazi. Robinson lost that race in North Carolina, a state Trump carried. It's probably like a plus one or two Republican state at national level. It didn't work for him.

He was discovered to be, almost certainly, I think he denies it, but it seems to me pretty plausible, a commenter on the Nude Africa site where he said all sorts of wildly offensive things, including, I am a black Nazi. Robinson lost that race in North Carolina, a state Trump carried. It's probably like a plus one or two Republican state at national level. It didn't work for him.

Like, Carrie Lake courted negative attention, lost two successive statewide races. Doug Mastriano. I could go down the list. So there's something really fascinating— underperformed in Ohio and his Senate.

Like, Carrie Lake courted negative attention, lost two successive statewide races. Doug Mastriano. I could go down the list. So there's something really fascinating— underperformed in Ohio and his Senate.

So there is something happening where it has not proven to be a replicable strategy. That the old logic that we were just talking about the Democrats having and being outdated still does hold in a lot of races. That said, in terms of influence, I think negative attention is incredibly effective.

So there is something happening where it has not proven to be a replicable strategy. That the old logic that we were just talking about the Democrats having and being outdated still does hold in a lot of races. That said, in terms of influence, I think negative attention is incredibly effective.

And I think you're seeing this shock jock, you can call it shock jock, you can just call it trolling politics. I mean, it is trolling politics. The idea of trolling and the reason that trolling exists is is it's easier to get negative attention than positive attention. It creates a conundrum for the other side, which is, do you ignore them while they say horrible stuff?

And I think you're seeing this shock jock, you can call it shock jock, you can just call it trolling politics. I mean, it is trolling politics. The idea of trolling and the reason that trolling exists is is it's easier to get negative attention than positive attention. It creates a conundrum for the other side, which is, do you ignore them while they say horrible stuff?

Or do you engage them and give them what they want? And I think this kind of trolling politics, which was really Donald Trump's insight... is the most transformational part of politics now. And you're 100% correct. The media management around Democrats is so much risk aversion. If the choice is negative attention or no attention, we take no attention every time. And that is the wrong choice.

Or do you engage them and give them what they want? And I think this kind of trolling politics, which was really Donald Trump's insight... is the most transformational part of politics now. And you're 100% correct. The media management around Democrats is so much risk aversion. If the choice is negative attention or no attention, we take no attention every time. And that is the wrong choice.

I mean, I think it does select for attentional sociopath. I would push back a little bit in this respect, though. I don't know how much of the negative feedback gets to Donald Trump and Musk. Like, I do think they have probably created... But he's sitting there watching MSNBC and getting mad at it.

I mean, I think it does select for attentional sociopath. I would push back a little bit in this respect, though. I don't know how much of the negative feedback gets to Donald Trump and Musk. Like, I do think they have probably created... But he's sitting there watching MSNBC and getting mad at it.

Yes, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, I think it bothers him and Musk, too. Like, I guess I just don't buy that it rolls off their back. I mean, they're kind of obsessed with it also. Mm-hmm. So that fixation is manifest differently. It at least doesn't turn them back, right?

Yes, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, I think it bothers him and Musk, too. Like, I guess I just don't buy that it rolls off their back. I mean, they're kind of obsessed with it also. Mm-hmm. So that fixation is manifest differently. It at least doesn't turn them back, right?

They don't recede from the... But the idea that they're sort of zen-like, like, well, you know, people are just going to hate me. Like, that's not what's going on psychologically. Fair enough. So, yes, I do. I worry, actually, that it now selects for a kind of sociopathic disposition. Or just a very, like, broken and compulsive one. Because, like, I know just speaking for myself, like,

They don't recede from the... But the idea that they're sort of zen-like, like, well, you know, people are just going to hate me. Like, that's not what's going on psychologically. Fair enough. So, yes, I do. I worry, actually, that it now selects for a kind of sociopathic disposition. Or just a very, like, broken and compulsive one. Because, like, I know just speaking for myself, like,